And watching anime people fight each other is funny. Almost as funny as watching <a href='http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2001-02-12&res=l' target='_blank'>console fanboys</a>... :P
<!--QuoteBegin-Testament+Apr 15 2005, 09:44 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Testament @ Apr 15 2005, 09:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-sheena yanai+Apr 15 2005, 12:08 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (sheena yanai @ Apr 15 2005, 12:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ripped some stuff from my appleseed dvd.. some nice landmate action <a href='http://yanai.blackmage.org/vidsngames/landmate-divx_v3.20a.avi' target='_blank'>quality turned out good enough..but its still 40 megs big</a> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Appleseed should've been a game. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> there was a appleseed game on super nintendo.... but it was crap.. there is no worthy appleseed game yet... but thankfully a movie now. because the one they did in the 80´s or so was crap too.....
Yeah, I saw the SNES one. I should really check Appleseed out. Tbh, I'm not that into anime anymore. Got bored of the general stuff in it. The new movie looks sweet, though.
<!--QuoteBegin-EEK+Sep 23 2004, 12:40 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (EEK @ Sep 23 2004, 12:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Coil, I hardly consider an oversized pogostick the same as a mech <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
"Legged vehicles can tackle more terrain than any other heavy unit."
What? Stop getting your 'information' from playing Mechwarrior games and your lame animes. Legs would be terrible on terrain. They'd do good on snow and sand, maybe, assuming you sealed the joints tightly enough so sand didn't get in them. Ice? They'd slip. A lot. Rocks? Hopefully your legs can lift high enough to clear them, and hopefully it doesn't step wrong and the whole thing falls down the mountain.
A legged unit would be incredibly and REDICULOUSLY vulnerable to enemy fire. Destroy the legs and it won't be going anywhere. Considering that armor on the legs would be light at best, it'd be only a trivial matter to disable them. Lots of vulnerable joints that can jam (and once they do, it's boned).
I also doubt it'd be able to carry anything larger then light weapons that a wheeled/treaded vehicle couldn't, since you'd have to have a controls system, engine, and weapons system in the 'body' part, you're looking at a lot of weight on the legs/pelvis. This would be the absolute weakest part of the design. Crack the hip, everything goes out of alignment, legs don't work right, it falls down, game over.
As for the armor, it was simply a massive battery hooked up to a charged armor plating underneath regular armor. Rocket Propelled Grenades are just that - greandes. They have a fragmentation system. When they hit, they blast superhot shreds of metal into the object. This system vaporizes the shrapnel when they hit it. However, you can still hit this overpriced toy with a regular anti-tank weapon and pop huge holes in it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I had a better, more witty post ready for this but I see you're already banned.
<!--QuoteBegin-StormLiong+Apr 14 2005, 11:54 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (StormLiong @ Apr 14 2005, 11:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What we need is the people at the Pentagon to be replace by scifi fans who will push R&D into the praticalities of Mechs. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> United States Military Budget, 2017: <ul><li>Troop Training- $15,000,000</li><li>Base Resupplies- $120,000,000</li><li>New Aircraft- $800,000,000</li><li>Research and Development- $950,000,000</li><li>Liquid Awesome- $900,000,000,000</li></ul>
People are looking at current issues for the most part... given advanced sensory and bigger things in smaller packages, a lot of mechs can actually become quicker and more agile. I do not think that a 90 foot tall Atlas is in the works, but much rather one of those smaller 10' or 20' tall mechs. (I forgot the names of those things... lightweight and annoying as hell).
Take into consideration, at the very beginning of this forum, how tall the kid was. Maybe 3' or so. This would make the mech roughly 24' tall. This is a lot more feasible than 40 or 50 feet tall mechs. Still versatile, and because they are smaller can probably go faster. Too big for anti-personell ammo, and too small to really consider using an anti-tank round on. If it is maneuverable enough, then it can avoid those bigger rounds.
The main thing is going to be detecting those neuro impulses and adapting them to a mech. If it can respond as quickly as a human can at 20' tall, then looking down at the ground and not stepping somewhere to avoid falling would be an easy task.
Falling down is the only problem I can see at this point for mechs, because it would be like a turtle on it's back. You can use the arms to get back up, but you're gonna be dead on the ground meanwhile.
<!--QuoteBegin-Geminosity+Apr 14 2005, 11:51 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Geminosity @ Apr 14 2005, 11:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> that's the beauty of it chem... whever you deploy it becomes a barren flatland under it's mighty feet!!! forests, cities, the enemy army? It's all flat once the mobile mega battle command fortress DX has been deployed ontop of it :o <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> its like the xbox controller =x
Wow, there are other 'mechheads in this forum. I don't feel so alone anymore.
Mechwarrior is vastly superior to any anime that will ever surface. It may be beacuse I was weaned on Flight Simulator, it may be beacuse gritty simulations are my thing, or it may just be because I can't stand anime. I'm sort of sad that Mechwarrior IV gutted the "simulation" part of the Mechwarrior franchise, but it's still a fun game to play every now and then with the new mods and such.
Shockwave- you silly clanner. Elementals are for incredibly muscular whimps. Real, non-genetically engineered men pilot <a href='http://www.chaosmarch.com/images/mechs/argus.jpg' target='_blank'>Argii</a>- good ol' shock vehicles. I prefer destroying the city to invading it.
Quick- a cookie to the first person to identify the chassis in my avatar. It shouldn't take long. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
(P.S. why wasn't this thread locked after being Necromanced?)
<!--QuoteBegin-DrSuredeath+Apr 18 2005, 02:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DrSuredeath @ Apr 18 2005, 02:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Bah, since this thing has already gone wayyyy off topic.
<a href='http://geocities.com/gunsight_one/Minmay-Attacks.swf' target='_blank'>Here're some mechs actions</a> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Thats... I don't... I mean, they... Japan... theres no way to...
<!--QuoteBegin-coil+Sep 23 2004, 12:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (coil @ Sep 23 2004, 12:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->airlanding exoslave armors with bigger versions of solotrak strapped on<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> One minor wrinkle with that mental image is the "dragons can't fly" problem.
Mass increases as the cube of height/length. Surface area increases as the square of height/length.
The solotrak looks like it has two 3-foot-diameter rotors, which adds up to 2x2.25x3.14 = ~14 square feet of rotor (I'm botching the actual physics of this, but it's the theory that's important). I'm going to assume that the weight of the pilot is about 200lbs (91kg), so one square foot of rotor has enough power to lift ~14 lbs (I'm ignoring the weight of the unit itself).
Let's say instead of a 6ft human, you're lifting a 10-ft exosuit. That's a 166% increase in size, so you'd figure the rotors would scale up to 3x1.66 = ~5ft diameter. Two 5ft rotors would mean ~40 square feet of rotor, capable of lifting 560lbs.
But a 6ft man weighs 200lbs; assuming mass increases with the cube of height, that means <i>m = xh</i>^3. If h=6 and m=200, then x works out to 1.08.
Now plug in x=1.08 and h=10... at 10 feet tall, a proportional humanoid weighs 1,080 pounds! Our 5-foot rotors are totally inadequate; to provide 1,080 pounds of lift we'll need 77sq ft of rotor. That works out to two 7-foot rotors, a 233% increase. For a 15-foot exosuit, weight balloons to 3,645 lbs, requiring two 12-foot rotors - a 250% increase in pilot height works out to a 400% increase in rotor size. _____
On top of the above math, I've ignored two things: 1) the solotrak itself would increase in size, adding its own considerable mass to the equation. While I didn't take its mass into account in figuring the rotors' lifting ability, the principle still applies. 2) A mech is made out of metal, which weighs considerably more than flesh and bone.
So, in conclusion: dragons can't fly.
Oh, and mechs probably can't use solotraks. But that's mostly because their hands are too big for the joysticks. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> So?
Wouldn't also the ammount of thrust be proportional to the angle of blades, number of blades, rotational velocity of the blades?
Also the focus at which the air is concentrated? Eg, a Propulsor instead of a Prop? (thinking Navy atm)
Or, just use a titanium alloy frame for the exosuit, which would nearly halve it's weight
And in reguards to tank armor-
The M1A2 Abrahms has Reactive-Ablative armor, designed to 1) React to and defeate oncoming explosives in a 3 part chain reaction and 2) Should that fail, disintegrate and absorb unto itself most of the power of the blast
Oh... and we could easily defend the leg joints of a quadripedal mech- it's called 3/4 inch thick fauceted Titanium Plate- so long as the bullet doesn't hit at any angle between 80 and 110 degrees, it'd just be deflected
Comments
go away <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> gundams are jokes...not mechs <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
My serious post was on the previous page. However do check out the link to the MegasXLR site, it's nicely done.
<a href='http://yanai.blackmage.org/vidsngames/landmate-divx_v3.20a.avi' target='_blank'>quality turned out good enough..but its still 40 megs big</a> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Appleseed should've been a game.
And watching anime people fight each other is funny. Almost as funny as watching <a href='http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2001-02-12&res=l' target='_blank'>console fanboys</a>... :P
<a href='http://yanai.blackmage.org/vidsngames/landmate-divx_v3.20a.avi' target='_blank'>quality turned out good enough..but its still 40 megs big</a> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Appleseed should've been a game. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
there was a appleseed game on super nintendo.... but it was crap..
there is no worthy appleseed game yet... but thankfully a movie now. because the one they did in the 80´s or so was crap too.....
<a href='http://www.odinsrealm.com/tatakau/Appleseed/' target='_blank'>appleseed game</a>
<img src='http://www.juegomania.org/emuladores/snes/0/83_t.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://www.juegomania.org/emuladores/snes/0/83.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<3
thank you, oh Goddess of tech
Don't make me post the picture of YF-19.
"Legged vehicles can tackle more terrain than any other heavy unit."
What? Stop getting your 'information' from playing Mechwarrior games and your lame animes. Legs would be terrible on terrain. They'd do good on snow and sand, maybe, assuming you sealed the joints tightly enough so sand didn't get in them. Ice? They'd slip. A lot. Rocks? Hopefully your legs can lift high enough to clear them, and hopefully it doesn't step wrong and the whole thing falls down the mountain.
A legged unit would be incredibly and REDICULOUSLY vulnerable to enemy fire. Destroy the legs and it won't be going anywhere. Considering that armor on the legs would be light at best, it'd be only a trivial matter to disable them. Lots of vulnerable joints that can jam (and once they do, it's boned).
I also doubt it'd be able to carry anything larger then light weapons that a wheeled/treaded vehicle couldn't, since you'd have to have a controls system, engine, and weapons system in the 'body' part, you're looking at a lot of weight on the legs/pelvis. This would be the absolute weakest part of the design. Crack the hip, everything goes out of alignment, legs don't work right, it falls down, game over.
As for the armor, it was simply a massive battery hooked up to a charged armor plating underneath regular armor. Rocket Propelled Grenades are just that - greandes. They have a fragmentation system. When they hit, they blast superhot shreds of metal into the object. This system vaporizes the shrapnel when they hit it. However, you can still hit this overpriced toy with a regular anti-tank weapon and pop huge holes in it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I had a better, more witty post ready for this but I see you're already banned.
United States Military Budget, 2017:
<ul><li>Troop Training- $15,000,000</li><li>Base Resupplies- $120,000,000</li><li>New Aircraft- $800,000,000</li><li>Research and Development- $950,000,000</li><li>Liquid Awesome- $900,000,000,000</li></ul>
Take into consideration, at the very beginning of this forum, how tall the kid was. Maybe 3' or so. This would make the mech roughly 24' tall. This is a lot more feasible than 40 or 50 feet tall mechs. Still versatile, and because they are smaller can probably go faster. Too big for anti-personell ammo, and too small to really consider using an anti-tank round on. If it is maneuverable enough, then it can avoid those bigger rounds.
The main thing is going to be detecting those neuro impulses and adapting them to a mech. If it can respond as quickly as a human can at 20' tall, then looking down at the ground and not stepping somewhere to avoid falling would be an easy task.
Falling down is the only problem I can see at this point for mechs, because it would be like a turtle on it's back. You can use the arms to get back up, but you're gonna be dead on the ground meanwhile.
<img src='http://www.olenegorsk.murman.ru/bt/images/Elemental%203.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Mmm.
its got smoke launchers and looks like it is able to walk ^^
its like the xbox controller =x
KEKEKE
<a href='http://geocities.com/gunsight_one/Minmay-Attacks.swf' target='_blank'>Here're some mechs actions</a>
<a href='http://geocities.com/gunsight_one/Minmay-Attacks.swf' target='_blank'>Here're some mechs actions</a> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sweet jesus.
I wish they'd make a *good* new Macross/Robotech game. Preferably based on Macross Zero.
OMG that'd pwn...
Seriously.
Best RO... game I EVER played for ZSN... NES.
Ever.
And when that other one came out for gameboy advance I got so pumped for nothing.
:|
Mechwarrior is vastly superior to any anime that will ever surface. It may be beacuse I was weaned on Flight Simulator, it may be beacuse gritty simulations are my thing, or it may just be because I can't stand anime. I'm sort of sad that Mechwarrior IV gutted the "simulation" part of the Mechwarrior franchise, but it's still a fun game to play every now and then with the new mods and such.
Shockwave- you silly clanner. Elementals are for incredibly muscular whimps. Real, non-genetically engineered men pilot <a href='http://www.chaosmarch.com/images/mechs/argus.jpg' target='_blank'>Argii</a>- good ol' shock vehicles. I prefer destroying the city to invading it.
Quick- a cookie to the first person to identify the chassis in my avatar. It shouldn't take long. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
(P.S. why wasn't this thread locked after being Necromanced?)
Made by me!
^_^
<img src='http://mywebpage.netscape.com/Deploro%20Amor/gm_hugeflatmap_v30044.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<a href='http://geocities.com/gunsight_one/Minmay-Attacks.swf' target='_blank'>Here're some mechs actions</a> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats... I don't... I mean, they... Japan... theres no way to...
WTH?!
Made by me!
^_^
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow, how large is that thing? it looks huge!
One minor wrinkle with that mental image is the "dragons can't fly" problem.
Mass increases as the cube of height/length. Surface area increases as the square of height/length.
The solotrak looks like it has two 3-foot-diameter rotors, which adds up to 2x2.25x3.14 = ~14 square feet of rotor (I'm botching the actual physics of this, but it's the theory that's important). I'm going to assume that the weight of the pilot is about 200lbs (91kg), so one square foot of rotor has enough power to lift ~14 lbs (I'm ignoring the weight of the unit itself).
Let's say instead of a 6ft human, you're lifting a 10-ft exosuit. That's a 166% increase in size, so you'd figure the rotors would scale up to 3x1.66 = ~5ft diameter. Two 5ft rotors would mean ~40 square feet of rotor, capable of lifting 560lbs.
But a 6ft man weighs 200lbs; assuming mass increases with the cube of height, that means <i>m = xh</i>^3. If h=6 and m=200, then x works out to 1.08.
Now plug in x=1.08 and h=10... at 10 feet tall, a proportional humanoid weighs 1,080 pounds! Our 5-foot rotors are totally inadequate; to provide 1,080 pounds of lift we'll need 77sq ft of rotor. That works out to two 7-foot rotors, a 233% increase. For a 15-foot exosuit, weight balloons to 3,645 lbs, requiring two 12-foot rotors - a 250% increase in pilot height works out to a 400% increase in rotor size.
_____
On top of the above math, I've ignored two things:
1) the solotrak itself would increase in size, adding its own considerable mass to the equation. While I didn't take its mass into account in figuring the rotors' lifting ability, the principle still applies.
2) A mech is made out of metal, which weighs considerably more than flesh and bone.
So, in conclusion: dragons can't fly.
Oh, and mechs probably can't use solotraks. But that's mostly because their hands are too big for the joysticks. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So?
Wouldn't also the ammount of thrust be proportional to the angle of blades, number of blades, rotational velocity of the blades?
Also the focus at which the air is concentrated? Eg, a Propulsor instead of a Prop? (thinking Navy atm)
Or, just use a titanium alloy frame for the exosuit, which would nearly halve it's weight
And in reguards to tank armor-
The M1A2 Abrahms has Reactive-Ablative armor, designed to 1) React to and defeate oncoming explosives in a 3 part chain reaction and 2) Should that fail, disintegrate and absorb unto itself most of the power of the blast
Oh... and we could easily defend the leg joints of a quadripedal mech- it's called 3/4 inch thick fauceted Titanium Plate- so long as the bullet doesn't hit at any angle between 80 and 110 degrees, it'd just be deflected