<!--QuoteBegin-EEK+Oct 5 2004, 01:37 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (EEK @ Oct 5 2004, 01:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I have NO IDEA at all what the HELL you are talking about in this thread but I'll give it a try ANYway...
What would happen? What are you talking about? First of all, my entire situation relied on if the sun instantly ran out of nuclear fuel. I know damn well it takes millions of years for a star to swell into a giant and then collapse to a dwarf. What the hell are you talking about 'iron sphere'? The sun is incapable of fusing iron, or even fusing elements INTO iron. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> "instantly ran out of nuclear fuel" - assuming you mean hydrogen only - doesn't do jack. i specifically said iron because it's the heaviest element that does forms by fusion reaction in *any* star core (yes, heavier elements are produced, but not in significant amounts, and iron is just past the break-even point between energy released by the fusion and energy required to maintain a stable chain reaction). just because it doesn't form to any significant extent in the sun doesn't mean anything, you said "ran out of nuclear fuel" which i assumed to mean that all fusionable materials were gone - oxygen, magnesium, carbon, helium, the works. true, the sun doesn't have enough mass to raise the pressure/temperature to go past the helium fusion reaction, but you said that we were safe from a hypothetical red giant stage, so i just spent 2 paragraphs trying to clarify what the hell *you* were talking about.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If a giant star novaed, the core IS forming the black hole. The explosion IS the core collapsing, and all the energy blowing outward. It would take about two hours (in a supergiant star) for the shockwave to reach the surface of the collapsing star. Once that happens, all hell breaks loose. The earth wouldn't be irradiated. The atmosphere wouldn't blow away. It would probably destroy the solar system. Mercury, Venus, Earth, and Mars would be GONE.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Uh... this is entirely dependent on exactly how dense your iron ball is... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> i meant atom-for-atom replacement.
and no, you misunderstand. that's giant/supergiant stars. we're only talking about the sun here, and if we did have a giant/supergiant as a sun, we'd be nice and toasty inside its mantle. well, nevermind that because we'd be all melted. In the sun's case, i'm not sure what would happen. The reason for this is AFAIK there is no evidence for stars made completely out of iron, of that size, since it would have no way to form. The mantle is blown off in a supernova, true, but how much force would it take to blow off 200,000 mile thick layer of solid iron? This is why I said "if we survive the radiation and iron bombardment" - I think that the outer layers of iron would form big globs of molten goodness hurtling outwards in case of a supernova. I have every idea how powerful supernovas are, they can cause star formation in nebula for hundreds of light years around. I'm just saying that in the sun's case, i'm not sure what would happen. If you just replaced the core with iron, i don't think it would supernova. The core would either collapse into a neutron star or a black hole. then gather an accretion disk from the outer layers. In the case of the neutron star, every so often it would nova off some of the mass, as well as spewing it out from both magnetic poles. This is what i was talking about. With the black hole, it would just spew out from the magnetic poles.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No, it wouldn't. Brown Dwarfs are 'stars' that were never massive enough to start fusion. If it was randomly hollowed it wouldn't... do much of anything. It'd probably just float off. It is a gas giant after all. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
dude, gravity doesn't just disappear. Hollowing out the core wouldn't cause the mantle to magically float away, perhaps a large amount of stuff from the chromosphere and photosphere would eject, but the rest would collapse in. To be fair, there's a chance that the remainder of the mantle would exceed 0.1 solar masses (which is a very generous upper limit to brown dwarves) but assuming a good chunk of the mantle blows off and we hollow out the core (which itself contains maybe 50% of the sun's mass*), we'd have our nice glow-y brown dwarf.
*inner and outer cores, if you just removed the inner core, the outer core would collapse in and start fusion again, most likely in an extremely explosive fashion, ejecting a lot of stuff, and either a) creating awesome red giant action or b) wiping the face of the earth off...well, the face of the earth in a large, expanding shell of fiery hydrogen.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> CME's are yes, caused by the internal magnetic forces of the sun spiraling out and releasing plasma, but I likened a mass shed of the sun's layers to a massive CME.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> um, not really, since the majority of the oomph behind a super/nova is physical shock. muh.
I still have no idea what the hell you're talking about since in one post you keep talking about the sun collapsing into a black hole, supernovas, and red giants, and then in the next you say you never said any of that and question stuff about mine that I answered quite obviously. Hell look at the last sentence, you're somehow making a connection that my statement about the sun rapidly losing its atmosphere (corona / chromosphere) being similar to a massive CME is the same thing as a supernova? I never even said our sun would supernova, only that a violent compression due to loss of internal pressure would release a tremendous amount of energy.
First of all, you need to actually be more specific. Hollowing out the sun? I figure that meant hollowing out pretty much everything below the photosphere, which is the actual "star" part of it. Replacing it with iron? Huh?
About the only thing I can expand on is what I mentioned about the nuclear pile running out: I meant that through some magic of chemistry, hydrogen, helium, and oxygen/carbon are utterly incapable of fusing at all. In other words, the reaction instantly stops and cannot be started again. I never implied replacing it with a denser non-fusable element.
If you're confused on a point, ASK before you spend 2 hours making these titanic posts. Don't assume that because I said something it means I actually was thinking that the core of the sun was going to be replaced with hot dogs.
You keep using the terms interchangedly which isn't helping at all.
EDIT: Well for one you keep saying that the sun will form a black hole if it all turned to iron. Crushing electrons and neutrons doesn't exactly cause 'nothing' to happen.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->About the only thing I can expand on is what I mentioned about the nuclear pile running out: I meant that through some magic of chemistry, hydrogen, helium, and oxygen/carbon are utterly incapable of fusing at all. In other words, the reaction instantly stops and cannot be started again. I never implied replacing it with a denser non-fusable element.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> you mean physics. anyway, that's why i specified iron, because you can't restart the fusion process with it. It's logical, if you think about it.<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you're confused on a point, ASK before you spend 2 hours making these titanic posts. Don't assume that because I said something it means I actually was thinking that the core of the sun was going to be replaced with hot dogs.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> best.quote.evar. sigged.
Somewhat, but the molar mass of iron is a hell of a lot more then hydrogen. My sun would simply stop working. Your sun would spontaneously get 55x more massive. The goal of this doomsday theory is to freeze the solar system, not suck everything in a massive cast-iron ball-bearing that might or might not be smashing into itself <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
EDIT: Though... I am wondering what would happen if you took a massive ball of say... Tungsten, the size of Jupiter, and hurled it into the sun, what would happen... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
there, i went back and changed the offending parts. sorry for not being more clear.
@"if it all changed to iron" - yes, that's what i was confused about. i took the liberty of proposing two different scenarios - one that the sun was replaced by a sphere of solid iron of similar size, and one that the sun was replaced by a sphere of solid iron of similar mass. The reason I was unsure whether it'd collapse into a black hole in the second alternative was that normally white dwarves lose a lot of their outer layers in the tail ends of the helium flash/cooldown cycles, but obviously since there would be no helium flash in this hypothetical star, i don't know whether the collapse would lead to degenerate material or an all-out black hole.
<!--QuoteBegin-Cronos+Oct 4 2004, 04:24 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cronos @ Oct 4 2004, 04:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The earth will not freeze over INSTANTLY. Not within 8 minutes and certainly not within 20.
Reasons for this:
1. The earth has a lot of thermal energy bottled up in the oceans and the atmosphere.
2. The earth radiates a fixed amount of energy into space at a fixed rate.
3. It takes TIME for the earth to radiate this energy. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The earths core is heated by virtue of a rather large lump of uranium in the core. Because this lump is rather large, the sustained naturally occuring nuclear reaction that takes place heats the core and the surrounding mantle, and by virtue of sheer mass, it would take a good deal of time to fizzle out.
The core stays hot for at least another billion years.
Google + Physics + Mass of the earths oceans + their stored energy = WIN!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, stored energy won't help as much as u think.
In most places the temperature will drop 15 or 20 degrees F during the night.
Imagine the temperature dropping 15 degrees F more than the day before and so on. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The earth has Uranium in the center? I thought it had candy in the center.
There is a nuclear reaction in the Uranium in the center of the earth. Yeah whatever, bunch of bullcrap.
And for everyone else.............
1. Every Eco-system would collapse within a month. 2. No bunkers with mega-heaters, and all the other stuff wouldn't be built in time because of the darkness. 3. There would be anarchy everywhere because of the weather/darkness. 4. Sure there is energy in the ground, and water, but how is <i>THAT</i> usefull when theres no friggin food? 5. There is no survival, everything gets froze solid and THE END!
microwave ovens. how else do you heat tv dinners? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Wheeee+Oct 5 2004, 08:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wheeee @ Oct 5 2004, 08:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> microwave ovens. how else do you heat tv dinners? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Geez, duh. You guys are stupid. Just build a million microwave ovens.
<!--QuoteBegin-tankefugl+Oct 4 2004, 02:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (tankefugl @ Oct 4 2004, 02:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> That's the pessimistic view of it, EEK. Even though it was a good summary on our current knowledge on stars.
Let's take an optimistic approach and consider how we can shield or even (wow) prevent it from happening. If left alive for enough time, I believe humankind is capable of developing advanced enough technology to challenge the stars. I believe the more important question is: How long and how? And don't limit yourself by today's knowledge.
Edit: That was a perfect reforming of the original scenario, SkulkBait <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The largest posible energy sourse we know of is the conversion of matter into energy. So far we have been able to convert a few molecules of matter into energy, but the sun alone converts several million pounds of matter into energy on a daily basis. I think it is safe to assume that we really have no realistic way to manipulate the will of our great firely overlords, even in a stronly theoretical sence.
My solution would be to blow the **** out of the monoliths, hopefully knocking them into said sun <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If all of a sudden all light just....dissapeared (I'm assuming I'm outside and it's daytime, so no artificial lights are on) I.would.so.freak.out. Everyone driving a car would just die, flat out 1 bajillion car pileup of d00m. Everyone caught outside would pretty much freeze to death in I'd say an hour if they didn't blindly stumble upon a heat source. Everyone caught near an actual heat source would most likely panic and run, because humans are idiots. So they'd die too. Eventually the people on the other side of the world would wake up, realize how f***in cold it was getting, and be like "Why is it so dark out?"
Then comes day two.
We'd still have electricity for a while, but we would pretty much waste a lot of fuel heating our (highly inefficient) homes, and most fuel would be gone in a few days. People without access to modern heating technology would die in a few hours. There would be two groups of people, those desperate to squeeze every last vice out of life before kicking the bucket, and those who suddenly turn devoutly religious. The first group would prey viciously on the latter, and there would be complete and utter social chaos. Rape, murder, plunder, suicides up the wazoo, the complete destruction of civilization as great mile-wide bonfires are built in the world's cities. Nations would become obsolete overnight as the rule of law is neglected in favor of mob rule. Fire is now the only thing separating mankind from near-absolute-zero temperatures (and it'd still be damn cold even right next to the fires). Someone would inevitably calculate the rate of regeneration of fuel sources (forests) on Earth and from that find the carrying capacity of Earth. It would probably be around 1 million humans or so. Enter mass genocide, as some extremist group uses this "scientific" data as justification for killing as many people as humanly possible, to provide for the 1 million "chosen". Bodies would provide fuel for a long while afterwards, and unfortunately they would also be the most ready source of food. At this point, I'm guessing a week or two AS (After Sun), all plants would be dead. The sun does more than provide energy for the creation of food for these plants, its infrared rays also regulate plants' body rhythms. Without plants, the only animals left alive would be those that can scavenge human waste, remain near the great fires, and at the same time avoid getting eaten by humans. Bacteria would be resilient, leading to the idea to cultivate and consume certain bacteria that feed off of human waste. However the project is doomed to failure by the lack of real bio-technological scientists at this point, because let's face it, scientists aren't the most amicable of people, and in order to remain one of those not sacrificed you'd have to talk yourself a good story to the mob leader. The African Savannahs, the Great Plains, all those grasslands would have turned to dry frozen grass very quickly, but eventually humans would try to find a way to set fire to these areas as well Alas it would be in vain, for the melted grass would douse the flames and reduce the plains to darkness again. From space, the Great Fires of Earth would burn like tiny pinpricks of candlelight from a watchtower far in the distance. However, this energy would be squandered Human nature dictates that eventually, through greed, negligence, laziness, and stupidity, the Fires would succumb to the lack of proper fuel and die a slow, painful death, as the moaning masses of the remaining population of Earth cry out and shelter themselves in the last dying embers, desperately scrabbling at life, eeking out a meaningless yet meaningful last few minutes of wordly torture among the ashes of civilization, slowly succumbing to the inevitable Cold.
I'm sorry, sky, but I must disagree on a lot of those points.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If all of a sudden all light just....dissapeared (I'm assuming I'm outside and it's daytime, so no artificial lights are on) I.would.so.freak.out. Everyone driving a car would just die, flat out 1 bajillion car pileup of d00m. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well perhaps there would be a few accidents, but cars come equipped with headlights for driving at night don't they? I'm pretty sure they would work just fine. In the cities, the streetlights are "light" sensitive and would come on if it got dark outside. I don't think there would be many car wrecks beyond the drivers who lose focus driving out of mere "shock" of everything getting dark all of a sudden.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Everyone caught outside would pretty much freeze to death in I'd say an hour if they didn't blindly stumble upon a heat source.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The sun does not reach the earth at night, and at least within 24 hours, the surface of the earth would get no colder than the coldest of night.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Everyone caught near an actual heat source would most likely panic and run, because humans are idiots. So they'd die too.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Why?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Eventually the people on the other side of the world would wake up, realize how f***in cold it was getting, and be like "Why is it so dark out?"
Then comes day two.
We'd still have electricity for a while, but we would pretty much waste a lot of fuel heating our (highly inefficient) homes, and most fuel would be gone in a few days. People without access to modern heating technology would die in a few hours.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Again, I dont' think it will be so terribly cold at least at first. Within the time it would take the earth to get as cold as say pluto, it would take a good couple years, and even longer before earth starts to look like an ice planet. As for the energy thing, electricity doesn't just come from solar power. It would be no worse than a night in a mild winter, and it would not take so incredibly much to keep homes warm. However I do agree that those without heaters might suffer (like those without heaters in a normal winter might suffer.. old people and such).
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There would be two groups of people, those desperate to squeeze every last vice out of life before kicking the bucket, and those who suddenly turn devoutly religious. The first group would prey viciously on the latter, and there would be complete and utter social chaos. Rape, murder, plunder, suicides up the wazoo, the complete destruction of civilization as great mile-wide bonfires are built in the world's cities. Nations would become obsolete overnight as the rule of law is neglected in favor of mob rule. Fire is now the only thing separating mankind from near-absolute-zero temperatures (and it'd still be damn cold even right next to the fires). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I would agree with that save from the fire being so desperately needed thing.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Someone would inevitably calculate the rate of regeneration of fuel sources (forests) on Earth and from that find the carrying capacity of Earth. It would probably be around 1 million humans or so. Enter mass genocide, as some extremist group uses this "scientific" data as justification for killing as many people as humanly possible, to provide for the 1 million "chosen". Bodies would provide fuel for a long while afterwards, and unfortunately they would also be the most ready source of food. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, I think people would sooner die than eat other people to survive.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->At this point, I'm guessing a week or two AS (After Sun), all plants would be dead. The sun does more than provide energy for the creation of food for these plants, its infrared rays also regulate plants' body rhythms. Without plants, the only animals left alive would be those that can scavenge human waste, remain near the great fires, and at the same time avoid getting eaten by humans. Bacteria would be resilient, leading to the idea to cultivate and consume certain bacteria that feed off of human waste. However the project is doomed to failure by the lack of real bio-technological scientists at this point, because let's face it, scientists aren't the most amicable of people, and in order to remain one of those not sacrificed you'd have to talk yourself a good story to the mob leader. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Because bio-technological scientists would be the first a bloodthirsty mob would try to kill? The ones trying to save the earth?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->However, this energy would be squandered Human nature dictates that eventually, through greed, negligence, laziness, and stupidity, the Fires would succumb to the lack of proper fuel and die a slow, painful death, as the moaning masses of the remaining population of Earth cry out and shelter themselves in the last dying embers, desperately scrabbling at life, eeking out a meaningless yet meaningful last few minutes of wordly torture among the ashes of civilization, slowly succumbing to the inevitable Cold. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Very poetic, but I think on the contrary that mankind will survive. Mankind has proven itself to be a very resourceful creature. A creature with only an opposable thumb and the ability to climb trees was able to conquer the world and all its enemies using its brain, and nothing else. Whether it means fleeing the solar system or figuring out other means of survival, mankind will survive (miserably perhaps, but still).
I don't mean to shed any disrespect on your post. I just simply don't agree. Just my two cents.
<!--QuoteBegin-5kyh16h91+Oct 7 2004, 05:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (5kyh16h91 @ Oct 7 2004, 05:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If all of a sudden all light just....dissapeared (I'm assuming I'm outside and it's daytime, so no artificial lights are on) I.would.so.freak.out. Everyone driving a car would just die, flat out 1 bajillion car pileup of d00m. Everyone caught outside would pretty much freeze to death in I'd say an hour if they didn't blindly stumble upon a heat source. Everyone caught near an actual heat source would most likely panic and run, because humans are idiots. So they'd die too. Eventually the people on the other side of the world would wake up, realize how f***in cold it was getting, and be like "Why is it so dark out?" <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You know, at the poles, there are 6 months of darkness. And yet, scientists manage to survive, and the atmosphere doesn't come raining down.
Wow. Congradulations for taking my post waaaaaaay too seriously. If case you didn't notice, that wasn't really aimed at a scientific dissection of the problem. I think EEK pretty much covered those bases already. But just because you had to go through point by point and rip it apart.....
<!--QuoteBegin-Hawkeye+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hawkeye)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-sky+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (sky)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If all of a sudden all light just....dissapeared (I'm assuming I'm outside and it's daytime, so no artificial lights are on) I.would.so.freak.out. Everyone driving a car would just die, flat out 1 bajillion car pileup of d00m. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well perhaps there would be a few accidents, but cars come equipped with headlights for driving at night don't they? I'm pretty sure they would work just fine. In the cities, the streetlights are "light" sensitive and would come on if it got dark outside. I don't think there would be many car wrecks beyond the drivers who lose focus driving out of mere "shock" of everything getting dark all of a sudden.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
One second it's light out.....the next second ABSOLUTELY NO LIGHT. You telling me people would be clear-minded enough to switch on those lights quickly enough to avoid collision? I think maybe 10% of all drivers have reactions that good. Like I said, fear would play a huge part. In any case, even if half the drivers got their lights on, there would still be massive numbers of crashes. At night, on a highway, every single car has their lights on, and it's still pretty dark, even including the roadlights, surrounding buildings, and moonlight. Now take out the roadlights, building lights, and moonlight, and halve the light coming from cars, and you get a situation that's pretty f***ing dark.
<!--QuoteBegin-Hawkeye+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hawkeye)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Everyone caught outside would pretty much freeze to death in I'd say an hour if they didn't blindly stumble upon a heat source.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The sun does not reach the earth at night, and at least within 24 hours, the surface of the earth would get no colder than the coldest of night.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That was a bit of poetic exxageration, but comparing the sun going dark to nighttime really doesn't work. The sun's still heating the other side of the Earth at night. I don't know the rate of heat loss from the upper atmosphere to space, but it has to be pretty high. Add in the fact that no outside energy is reaching space, and the Earth is cooling pretty damn quick. A better guess would be a drop to freezing in maybe 24 hours, like you said.
<!--QuoteBegin-Hawkeye+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hawkeye)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-sky+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (sky)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Everyone caught near an actual heat source would most likely panic and run, because humans are idiots. So they'd die too.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Why?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Remember hearing about the "War of the Worlds" broadcast? Remember how a single radio broadcast, including numerous disclaimers about the fact that the whole thing was FAKE, stirred up a massive panic? People committed suicide, people ran into the hills, anything to get away from the "aliens". People are incredibly stupid when scared. Can you just imagine right now hearing over the radio/tv that the sun just died? There.would.be.panic.
<!--QuoteBegin-Hawkeye+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hawkeye)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-sky+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (sky)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Eventually the people on the other side of the world would wake up, realize how f***in cold it was getting, and be like "Why is it so dark out?"
Then comes day two.
We'd still have electricity for a while, but we would pretty much waste a lot of fuel heating our (highly inefficient) homes, and most fuel would be gone in a few days. People without access to modern heating technology would die in a few hours.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Again, I dont' think it will be so terribly cold at least at first. Within the time it would take the earth to get as cold as say pluto, it would take a good couple years, and even longer before earth starts to look like an ice planet. As for the energy thing, electricity doesn't just come from solar power. It would be no worse than a night in a mild winter, and it would not take so incredibly much to keep homes warm. However I do agree that those without heaters might suffer (like those without heaters in a normal winter might suffer.. old people and such).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not talking about Pluto temperatures here, I'm talking waking up and it being almost freezing in summer or something. And pluto temperatures....the Earth would be an ice planet FAR before ever reaching those temperatures man. We're talking barely any kinetic energy left in anything. It's cold <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> . And I'm also not talking about where the power comes from. I know damn well that we don't use as much solar power as we should. The problem will come from the massive overload on the powerplants as people try to keep their houses warm and lit as the days drag on. The sun's rays really do heat up our homes a lot more than our meager heating systems during the day, and trying to do the job of the morning sun with heating systems will strain the fuel supply and power output to the breaking point.
<!--QuoteBegin-Hawkeye+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hawkeye)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-sky+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (sky)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There would be two groups of people, those desperate to squeeze every last vice out of life before kicking the bucket, and those who suddenly turn devoutly religious. The first group would prey viciously on the latter, and there would be complete and utter social chaos. Rape, murder, plunder, suicides up the wazoo, the complete destruction of civilization as great mile-wide bonfires are built in the world's cities. Nations would become obsolete overnight as the rule of law is neglected in favor of mob rule. Fire is now the only thing separating mankind from near-absolute-zero temperatures (and it'd still be damn cold even right next to the fires). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I would agree with that save from the fire being so desperately needed thing.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I can't think of anything else that would or could serve as a way of keeping warm, so yes I still think humans would build massive bonfires.
<!--QuoteBegin-Hawkeye+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hawkeye)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-sky+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (sky)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Someone would inevitably calculate the rate of regeneration of fuel sources (forests) on Earth and from that find the carrying capacity of Earth. It would probably be around 1 million humans or so. Enter mass genocide, as some extremist group uses this "scientific" data as justification for killing as many people as humanly possible, to provide for the 1 million "chosen". Bodies would provide fuel for a long while afterwards, and unfortunately they would also be the most ready source of food. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, I think people would sooner die than eat other people to survive.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, I didn't say people would eat other people, though judging from cannibals and numerous stories I've heard of hunger-induced canibalism, it isn't beyond the realm of possibility. I was just saying how some scientist would come up with some figure of the total population of humans the Earth can sustain without the Sun. Then there would be massive killings as people took this information and turned it into cause to just kill off a couple billion humans. Scary no?
<!--QuoteBegin-Hawkeye+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hawkeye)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-sky+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (sky)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->At this point, I'm guessing a week or two AS (After Sun), all plants would be dead. The sun does more than provide energy for the creation of food for these plants, its infrared rays also regulate plants' body rhythms. Without plants, the only animals left alive would be those that can scavenge human waste, remain near the great fires, and at the same time avoid getting eaten by humans. Bacteria would be resilient, leading to the idea to cultivate and consume certain bacteria that feed off of human waste. However the project is doomed to failure by the lack of real bio-technological scientists at this point, because let's face it, scientists aren't the most amicable of people, and in order to remain one of those not sacrificed you'd have to talk yourself a good story to the mob leader. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Because bio-technological scientists would be the first a bloodthirsty mob would try to kill? The ones trying to save the earth?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The biggest and strongest, and most importantly the most popular and/or loud people would become the leaders of the mobs, and big, loud, and strong people don't tend to favor science/rationality over strength. Therefore, all the "weakest" members of society will be killed off first. It's my creative logic dammit, why the hell do you have to argue with me on this? Do you argue with Huck Finn, saying Twain's an idiot for having Huck go down the Mississippi, that he should have just run West in the first place? No, goddammit, because that's not what the author wants to write!
Ahem....
<!--QuoteBegin-Hawkeye+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hawkeye)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-sky+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (sky)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->However, this energy would be squandered Human nature dictates that eventually, through greed, negligence, laziness, and stupidity, the Fires would succumb to the lack of proper fuel and die a slow, painful death, as the moaning masses of the remaining population of Earth cry out and shelter themselves in the last dying embers, desperately scrabbling at life, eeking out a meaningless yet meaningful last few minutes of wordly torture among the ashes of civilization, slowly succumbing to the inevitable Cold. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Very poetic, but I think on the contrary that mankind will survive. Mankind has proven itself to be a very resourceful creature. A creature with only an opposable thumb and the ability to climb trees was able to conquer the world and all its enemies using its brain, and nothing else. Whether it means fleeing the solar system or figuring out other means of survival, mankind will survive (miserably perhaps, but still).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Resourcefulness = making something good out a small amount of starting equipment/supplies/resources. That's all fine and dandy, but what if you start with NO resources? The entire food chain is gone; no plants survive, no animals besides humans and scavengers will have the necessary skills to survive without plants and/or the animals that eat them. Fungi will survive, bacteria will survive, some protists might survive....but in all honesty what good will that do? Without the Sun the Earth is just a spinning ball of Death waiting to be realized. Without the sun, eventually all of Earth's resources will be consumed, because there are no renewable resources. You think fungi will be able to feast on dead fungi forever? Every generation there will be less and less, lost to life processes, wasted, burned, gone. Eukaryotic life will burn out without the Sun. Don't try to say that Life has bounced back before; an asteroid impact is so much less of a shock than an instant loss of the entire bottom part of the food chain. The Earth would be doomed, end of story.
And as for fleeing the solar-system? And you called my scenario illogical. Humanity has been reduced to fire-scrounging wildmen; they must rebuild the world order before they even think of leaving the planet, assuming they even make it through a single year. None of which is very likely. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Hawkeye+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hawkeye)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't mean to shed any disrespect on your post. I just simply don't agree. Just my two cents.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In the end, it really doesn't matter. It's a fictional scenario, flawed on many levels, and debating the validity of anyone's points is rather ironic I have to say. Secondly, I didn't even originally intend my post to be scientific, I intended it to be entertainment, and arguing with me while I have poetic license to create any scenario that I wish is rather futile <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Let's see....it wasn't funny the first thread you posted it in.....and the second time is just crappy. Stop. Now.
I think you just hit negative zort on the respect scale.
<span style='color:orange'>Marik's interrupt: this post refers to one that has since been moved out of the public eye. It refers to a member who will now be restricted from the Discussions forum. If you made a post somewhere recently above this one, don't worry--this post by 5kyh16h91 and the next by Wheeee don't refer to you.</span>
/me ignores rest of thread at the sight of latest posts
If the sun went out, as in disappeared, rather than just stopped emitting visible light, the earth would turn into a deep-freeze within the week. Animals and plants wouldn't have time to starve to death.
And I doubt anything could adapt+evolve, without any light except the stars.
EDIT: deep-freeze as in -200°C. You can't make homes tight enough around the edges of the doors to survive that.
Comments
What would happen? What are you talking about? First of all, my entire situation relied on if the sun instantly ran out of nuclear fuel. I know damn well it takes millions of years for a star to swell into a giant and then collapse to a dwarf. What the hell are you talking about 'iron sphere'? The sun is incapable of fusing iron, or even fusing elements INTO iron. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
"instantly ran out of nuclear fuel" - assuming you mean hydrogen only - doesn't do jack. i specifically said iron because it's the heaviest element that does forms by fusion reaction in *any* star core (yes, heavier elements are produced, but not in significant amounts, and iron is just past the break-even point between energy released by the fusion and energy required to maintain a stable chain reaction). just because it doesn't form to any significant extent in the sun doesn't mean anything, you said "ran out of nuclear fuel" which i assumed to mean that all fusionable materials were gone - oxygen, magnesium, carbon, helium, the works. true, the sun doesn't have enough mass to raise the pressure/temperature to go past the helium fusion reaction, but you said that we were safe from a hypothetical red giant stage, so i just spent 2 paragraphs trying to clarify what the hell *you* were talking about.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If a giant star novaed, the core IS forming the black hole. The explosion IS the core collapsing, and all the energy blowing outward. It would take about two hours (in a supergiant star) for the shockwave to reach the surface of the collapsing star. Once that happens, all hell breaks loose. The earth wouldn't be irradiated. The atmosphere wouldn't blow away. It would probably destroy the solar system. Mercury, Venus, Earth, and Mars would be GONE.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Uh... this is entirely dependent on exactly how dense your iron ball is...
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i meant atom-for-atom replacement.
and no, you misunderstand. that's giant/supergiant stars. we're only talking about the sun here, and if we did have a giant/supergiant as a sun, we'd be nice and toasty inside its mantle. well, nevermind that because we'd be all melted. In the sun's case, i'm not sure what would happen. The reason for this is AFAIK there is no evidence for stars made completely out of iron, of that size, since it would have no way to form. The mantle is blown off in a supernova, true, but how much force would it take to blow off 200,000 mile thick layer of solid iron? This is why I said "if we survive the radiation and iron bombardment" - I think that the outer layers of iron would form big globs of molten goodness hurtling outwards in case of a supernova. I have every idea how powerful supernovas are, they can cause star formation in nebula for hundreds of light years around. I'm just saying that in the sun's case, i'm not sure what would happen. If you just replaced the core with iron, i don't think it would supernova. The core would either collapse into a neutron star or a black hole. then gather an accretion disk from the outer layers. In the case of the neutron star, every so often it would nova off some of the mass, as well as spewing it out from both magnetic poles. This is what i was talking about. With the black hole, it would just spew out from the magnetic poles.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
No, it wouldn't. Brown Dwarfs are 'stars' that were never massive enough to start fusion. If it was randomly hollowed it wouldn't... do much of anything. It'd probably just float off. It is a gas giant after all. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
dude, gravity doesn't just disappear. Hollowing out the core wouldn't cause the mantle to magically float away, perhaps a large amount of stuff from the chromosphere and photosphere would eject, but the rest would collapse in. To be fair, there's a chance that the remainder of the mantle would exceed 0.1 solar masses (which is a very generous upper limit to brown dwarves) but assuming a good chunk of the mantle blows off and we hollow out the core (which itself contains maybe 50% of the sun's mass*), we'd have our nice glow-y brown dwarf.
*inner and outer cores, if you just removed the inner core, the outer core would collapse in and start fusion again, most likely in an extremely explosive fashion, ejecting a lot of stuff, and either a) creating awesome red giant action or b) wiping the face of the earth off...well, the face of the earth in a large, expanding shell of fiery hydrogen.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
CME's are yes, caused by the internal magnetic forces of the sun spiraling out and releasing plasma, but I likened a mass shed of the sun's layers to a massive CME.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
um, not really, since the majority of the oomph behind a super/nova is physical shock. muh.
First of all, you need to actually be more specific. Hollowing out the sun? I figure that meant hollowing out pretty much everything below the photosphere, which is the actual "star" part of it. Replacing it with iron? Huh?
About the only thing I can expand on is what I mentioned about the nuclear pile running out: I meant that through some magic of chemistry, hydrogen, helium, and oxygen/carbon are utterly incapable of fusing at all. In other words, the reaction instantly stops and cannot be started again. I never implied replacing it with a denser non-fusable element.
If you're confused on a point, ASK before you spend 2 hours making these titanic posts. Don't assume that because I said something it means I actually was thinking that the core of the sun was going to be replaced with hot dogs.
@below post: please cite an example and i will happily go back, edit, and clarify.
EDIT: Well for one you keep saying that the sun will form a black hole if it all turned to iron. Crushing electrons and neutrons doesn't exactly cause 'nothing' to happen.
you mean physics. anyway, that's why i specified iron, because you can't restart the fusion process with it. It's logical, if you think about it.<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you're confused on a point, ASK before you spend 2 hours making these titanic posts. Don't assume that because I said something it means I actually was thinking that the core of the sun was going to be replaced with hot dogs.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
best.quote.evar. sigged.
EDIT: Though... I am wondering what would happen if you took a massive ball of say... Tungsten, the size of Jupiter, and hurled it into the sun, what would happen... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
@"if it all changed to iron" - yes, that's what i was confused about. i took the liberty of proposing two different scenarios - one that the sun was replaced by a sphere of solid iron of similar size, and one that the sun was replaced by a sphere of solid iron of similar mass. The reason I was unsure whether it'd collapse into a black hole in the second alternative was that normally white dwarves lose a lot of their outer layers in the tail ends of the helium flash/cooldown cycles, but obviously since there would be no helium flash in this hypothetical star, i don't know whether the collapse would lead to degenerate material or an all-out black hole.
<!--QuoteBegin-Cronos+Oct 4 2004, 04:24 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cronos @ Oct 4 2004, 04:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The earth will not freeze over INSTANTLY. Not within 8 minutes and certainly not within 20.
Reasons for this:
1. The earth has a lot of thermal energy bottled up in the oceans and the atmosphere.
2. The earth radiates a fixed amount of energy into space at a fixed rate.
3. It takes TIME for the earth to radiate this energy.
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The earths core is heated by virtue of a rather large lump of uranium in the core. Because this lump is rather large, the sustained naturally occuring nuclear reaction that takes place heats the core and the surrounding mantle, and by virtue of sheer mass, it would take a good deal of time to fizzle out.
The core stays hot for at least another billion years.
Google + Physics + Mass of the earths oceans + their stored energy = WIN!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, stored energy won't help as much as u think.
In most places the temperature will drop 15 or 20 degrees F during the night.
Imagine the temperature dropping 15 degrees F more than the day before and so on.
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The earth has Uranium in the center? I thought it had candy in the center.
There is a nuclear reaction in the Uranium in the center of the earth. Yeah whatever, bunch of bullcrap.
And for everyone else.............
1. Every Eco-system would collapse within a month.
2. No bunkers with mega-heaters, and all the other stuff wouldn't be built in time because of the darkness.
3. There would be anarchy everywhere because of the weather/darkness.
4. Sure there is energy in the ground, and water, but how is <i>THAT</i> usefull when theres no friggin food?
5. There is no survival, everything gets froze solid and THE END!
Geez, duh. You guys are stupid. Just build a million microwave ovens.
Psh.. idiots.. the whole lot of them.
Let's take an optimistic approach and consider how we can shield or even (wow) prevent it from happening. If left alive for enough time, I believe humankind is capable of developing advanced enough technology to challenge the stars. I believe the more important question is: How long and how? And don't limit yourself by today's knowledge.
Edit: That was a perfect reforming of the original scenario, SkulkBait <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The largest posible energy sourse we know of is the conversion of matter into energy. So far we have been able to convert a few molecules of matter into energy, but the sun alone converts several million pounds of matter into energy on a daily basis. I think it is safe to assume that we really have no realistic way to manipulate the will of our great firely overlords, even in a stronly theoretical sence.
Then comes day two.
We'd still have electricity for a while, but we would pretty much waste a lot of fuel heating our (highly inefficient) homes, and most fuel would be gone in a few days. People without access to modern heating technology would die in a few hours. There would be two groups of people, those desperate to squeeze every last vice out of life before kicking the bucket, and those who suddenly turn devoutly religious.
The first group would prey viciously on the latter, and there would be complete and utter social chaos. Rape, murder, plunder, suicides up the wazoo, the complete destruction of civilization as great mile-wide bonfires are built in the world's cities. Nations would become obsolete overnight as the rule of law is neglected in favor of mob rule. Fire is now the only thing separating mankind from near-absolute-zero temperatures (and it'd still be damn cold even right next to the fires).
Someone would inevitably calculate the rate of regeneration of fuel sources (forests) on Earth and from that find the carrying capacity of Earth. It would probably be around 1 million humans or so. Enter mass genocide, as some extremist group uses this "scientific" data as justification for killing as many people as humanly possible, to provide for the 1 million "chosen". Bodies would provide fuel for a long while afterwards, and unfortunately they would also be the most ready source of food.
At this point, I'm guessing a week or two AS (After Sun), all plants would be dead. The sun does more than provide energy for the creation of food for these plants, its infrared rays also regulate plants' body rhythms. Without plants, the only animals left alive would be those that can scavenge human waste, remain near the great fires, and at the same time avoid getting eaten by humans. Bacteria would be resilient, leading to the idea to cultivate and consume certain bacteria that feed off of human waste. However the project is doomed to failure by the lack of real bio-technological scientists at this point, because let's face it, scientists aren't the most amicable of people, and in order to remain one of those not sacrificed you'd have to talk yourself a good story to the mob leader.
The African Savannahs, the Great Plains, all those grasslands would have turned to dry frozen grass very quickly, but eventually humans would try to find a way to set fire to these areas as well Alas it would be in vain, for the melted grass would douse the flames and reduce the plains to darkness again. From space, the Great Fires of Earth would burn like tiny pinpricks of candlelight from a watchtower far in the distance.
However, this energy would be squandered Human nature dictates that eventually, through greed, negligence, laziness, and stupidity, the Fires would succumb to the lack of proper fuel and die a slow, painful death, as the moaning masses of the remaining population of Earth cry out and shelter themselves in the last dying embers, desperately scrabbling at life, eeking out a meaningless yet meaningful last few minutes of wordly torture among the ashes of civilization, slowly succumbing to the inevitable Cold.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If all of a sudden all light just....dissapeared (I'm assuming I'm outside and it's daytime, so no artificial lights are on) I.would.so.freak.out. Everyone driving a car would just die, flat out 1 bajillion car pileup of d00m. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well perhaps there would be a few accidents, but cars come equipped with headlights for driving at night don't they? I'm pretty sure they would work just fine. In the cities, the streetlights are "light" sensitive and would come on if it got dark outside. I don't think there would be many car wrecks beyond the drivers who lose focus driving out of mere "shock" of everything getting dark all of a sudden.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Everyone caught outside would pretty much freeze to death in I'd say an hour if they didn't blindly stumble upon a heat source.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The sun does not reach the earth at night, and at least within 24 hours, the surface of the earth would get no colder than the coldest of night.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Everyone caught near an actual heat source would most likely panic and run, because humans are idiots. So they'd die too.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Eventually the people on the other side of the world would wake up, realize how f***in cold it was getting, and be like "Why is it so dark out?"
Then comes day two.
We'd still have electricity for a while, but we would pretty much waste a lot of fuel heating our (highly inefficient) homes, and most fuel would be gone in a few days. People without access to modern heating technology would die in a few hours.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, I dont' think it will be so terribly cold at least at first. Within the time it would take the earth to get as cold as say pluto, it would take a good couple years, and even longer before earth starts to look like an ice planet. As for the energy thing, electricity doesn't just come from solar power. It would be no worse than a night in a mild winter, and it would not take so incredibly much to keep homes warm. However I do agree that those without heaters might suffer (like those without heaters in a normal winter might suffer.. old people and such).
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There would be two groups of people, those desperate to squeeze every last vice out of life before kicking the bucket, and those who suddenly turn devoutly religious. The first group would prey viciously on the latter, and there would be complete and utter social chaos. Rape, murder, plunder, suicides up the wazoo, the complete destruction of civilization as great mile-wide bonfires are built in the world's cities. Nations would become obsolete overnight as the rule of law is neglected in favor of mob rule. Fire is now the only thing separating mankind from near-absolute-zero temperatures (and it'd still be damn cold even right next to the fires). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would agree with that save from the fire being so desperately needed thing.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Someone would inevitably calculate the rate of regeneration of fuel sources (forests) on Earth and from that find the carrying capacity of Earth. It would probably be around 1 million humans or so. Enter mass genocide, as some extremist group uses this "scientific" data as justification for killing as many people as humanly possible, to provide for the 1 million "chosen". Bodies would provide fuel for a long while afterwards, and unfortunately they would also be the most ready source of food. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, I think people would sooner die than eat other people to survive.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->At this point, I'm guessing a week or two AS (After Sun), all plants would be dead. The sun does more than provide energy for the creation of food for these plants, its infrared rays also regulate plants' body rhythms. Without plants, the only animals left alive would be those that can scavenge human waste, remain near the great fires, and at the same time avoid getting eaten by humans. Bacteria would be resilient, leading to the idea to cultivate and consume certain bacteria that feed off of human waste. However the project is doomed to failure by the lack of real bio-technological scientists at this point, because let's face it, scientists aren't the most amicable of people, and in order to remain one of those not sacrificed you'd have to talk yourself a good story to the mob leader. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because bio-technological scientists would be the first a bloodthirsty mob would try to kill? The ones trying to save the earth?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->However, this energy would be squandered Human nature dictates that eventually, through greed, negligence, laziness, and stupidity, the Fires would succumb to the lack of proper fuel and die a slow, painful death, as the moaning masses of the remaining population of Earth cry out and shelter themselves in the last dying embers, desperately scrabbling at life, eeking out a meaningless yet meaningful last few minutes of wordly torture among the ashes of civilization, slowly succumbing to the inevitable Cold. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Very poetic, but I think on the contrary that mankind will survive. Mankind has proven itself to be a very resourceful creature. A creature with only an opposable thumb and the ability to climb trees was able to conquer the world and all its enemies using its brain, and nothing else. Whether it means fleeing the solar system or figuring out other means of survival, mankind will survive (miserably perhaps, but still).
I don't mean to shed any disrespect on your post. I just simply don't agree. Just my two cents.
You know, at the poles, there are 6 months of darkness. And yet, scientists manage to survive, and the atmosphere doesn't come raining down.
<!--QuoteBegin-Hawkeye+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hawkeye)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-sky+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (sky)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If all of a sudden all light just....dissapeared (I'm assuming I'm outside and it's daytime, so no artificial lights are on) I.would.so.freak.out. Everyone driving a car would just die, flat out 1 bajillion car pileup of d00m. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well perhaps there would be a few accidents, but cars come equipped with headlights for driving at night don't they? I'm pretty sure they would work just fine. In the cities, the streetlights are "light" sensitive and would come on if it got dark outside. I don't think there would be many car wrecks beyond the drivers who lose focus driving out of mere "shock" of everything getting dark all of a sudden.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
One second it's light out.....the next second ABSOLUTELY NO LIGHT. You telling me people would be clear-minded enough to switch on those lights quickly enough to avoid collision? I think maybe 10% of all drivers have reactions that good. Like I said, fear would play a huge part. In any case, even if half the drivers got their lights on, there would still be massive numbers of crashes. At night, on a highway, every single car has their lights on, and it's still pretty dark, even including the roadlights, surrounding buildings, and moonlight. Now take out the roadlights, building lights, and moonlight, and halve the light coming from cars, and you get a situation that's pretty f***ing dark.
<!--QuoteBegin-Hawkeye+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hawkeye)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Everyone caught outside would pretty much freeze to death in I'd say an hour if they didn't blindly stumble upon a heat source.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The sun does not reach the earth at night, and at least within 24 hours, the surface of the earth would get no colder than the coldest of night.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That was a bit of poetic exxageration, but comparing the sun going dark to nighttime really doesn't work. The sun's still heating the other side of the Earth at night. I don't know the rate of heat loss from the upper atmosphere to space, but it has to be pretty high. Add in the fact that no outside energy is reaching space, and the Earth is cooling pretty damn quick. A better guess would be a drop to freezing in maybe 24 hours, like you said.
<!--QuoteBegin-Hawkeye+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hawkeye)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-sky+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (sky)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Everyone caught near an actual heat source would most likely panic and run, because humans are idiots. So they'd die too.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Remember hearing about the "War of the Worlds" broadcast? Remember how a single radio broadcast, including numerous disclaimers about the fact that the whole thing was FAKE, stirred up a massive panic? People committed suicide, people ran into the hills, anything to get away from the "aliens". People are incredibly stupid when scared. Can you just imagine right now hearing over the radio/tv that the sun just died? There.would.be.panic.
<!--QuoteBegin-Hawkeye+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hawkeye)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-sky+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (sky)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Eventually the people on the other side of the world would wake up, realize how f***in cold it was getting, and be like "Why is it so dark out?"
Then comes day two.
We'd still have electricity for a while, but we would pretty much waste a lot of fuel heating our (highly inefficient) homes, and most fuel would be gone in a few days. People without access to modern heating technology would die in a few hours.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, I dont' think it will be so terribly cold at least at first. Within the time it would take the earth to get as cold as say pluto, it would take a good couple years, and even longer before earth starts to look like an ice planet. As for the energy thing, electricity doesn't just come from solar power. It would be no worse than a night in a mild winter, and it would not take so incredibly much to keep homes warm. However I do agree that those without heaters might suffer (like those without heaters in a normal winter might suffer.. old people and such).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not talking about Pluto temperatures here, I'm talking waking up and it being almost freezing in summer or something. And pluto temperatures....the Earth would be an ice planet FAR before ever reaching those temperatures man. We're talking barely any kinetic energy left in anything. It's cold <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> . And I'm also not talking about where the power comes from. I know damn well that we don't use as much solar power as we should. The problem will come from the massive overload on the powerplants as people try to keep their houses warm and lit as the days drag on. The sun's rays really do heat up our homes a lot more than our meager heating systems during the day, and trying to do the job of the morning sun with heating systems will strain the fuel supply and power output to the breaking point.
<!--QuoteBegin-Hawkeye+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hawkeye)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-sky+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (sky)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There would be two groups of people, those desperate to squeeze every last vice out of life before kicking the bucket, and those who suddenly turn devoutly religious. The first group would prey viciously on the latter, and there would be complete and utter social chaos. Rape, murder, plunder, suicides up the wazoo, the complete destruction of civilization as great mile-wide bonfires are built in the world's cities. Nations would become obsolete overnight as the rule of law is neglected in favor of mob rule. Fire is now the only thing separating mankind from near-absolute-zero temperatures (and it'd still be damn cold even right next to the fires). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would agree with that save from the fire being so desperately needed thing.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can't think of anything else that would or could serve as a way of keeping warm, so yes I still think humans would build massive bonfires.
<!--QuoteBegin-Hawkeye+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hawkeye)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-sky+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (sky)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Someone would inevitably calculate the rate of regeneration of fuel sources (forests) on Earth and from that find the carrying capacity of Earth. It would probably be around 1 million humans or so. Enter mass genocide, as some extremist group uses this "scientific" data as justification for killing as many people as humanly possible, to provide for the 1 million "chosen". Bodies would provide fuel for a long while afterwards, and unfortunately they would also be the most ready source of food. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, I think people would sooner die than eat other people to survive.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, I didn't say people would eat other people, though judging from cannibals and numerous stories I've heard of hunger-induced canibalism, it isn't beyond the realm of possibility. I was just saying how some scientist would come up with some figure of the total population of humans the Earth can sustain without the Sun. Then there would be massive killings as people took this information and turned it into cause to just kill off a couple billion humans. Scary no?
<!--QuoteBegin-Hawkeye+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hawkeye)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-sky+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (sky)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->At this point, I'm guessing a week or two AS (After Sun), all plants would be dead. The sun does more than provide energy for the creation of food for these plants, its infrared rays also regulate plants' body rhythms. Without plants, the only animals left alive would be those that can scavenge human waste, remain near the great fires, and at the same time avoid getting eaten by humans. Bacteria would be resilient, leading to the idea to cultivate and consume certain bacteria that feed off of human waste. However the project is doomed to failure by the lack of real bio-technological scientists at this point, because let's face it, scientists aren't the most amicable of people, and in order to remain one of those not sacrificed you'd have to talk yourself a good story to the mob leader. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because bio-technological scientists would be the first a bloodthirsty mob would try to kill? The ones trying to save the earth?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The biggest and strongest, and most importantly the most popular and/or loud people would become the leaders of the mobs, and big, loud, and strong people don't tend to favor science/rationality over strength. Therefore, all the "weakest" members of society will be killed off first. It's my creative logic dammit, why the hell do you have to argue with me on this? Do you argue with Huck Finn, saying Twain's an idiot for having Huck go down the Mississippi, that he should have just run West in the first place? No, goddammit, because that's not what the author wants to write!
Ahem....
<!--QuoteBegin-Hawkeye+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hawkeye)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-sky+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (sky)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->However, this energy would be squandered Human nature dictates that eventually, through greed, negligence, laziness, and stupidity, the Fires would succumb to the lack of proper fuel and die a slow, painful death, as the moaning masses of the remaining population of Earth cry out and shelter themselves in the last dying embers, desperately scrabbling at life, eeking out a meaningless yet meaningful last few minutes of wordly torture among the ashes of civilization, slowly succumbing to the inevitable Cold. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Very poetic, but I think on the contrary that mankind will survive. Mankind has proven itself to be a very resourceful creature. A creature with only an opposable thumb and the ability to climb trees was able to conquer the world and all its enemies using its brain, and nothing else. Whether it means fleeing the solar system or figuring out other means of survival, mankind will survive (miserably perhaps, but still).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Resourcefulness = making something good out a small amount of starting equipment/supplies/resources. That's all fine and dandy, but what if you start with NO resources? The entire food chain is gone; no plants survive, no animals besides humans and scavengers will have the necessary skills to survive without plants and/or the animals that eat them. Fungi will survive, bacteria will survive, some protists might survive....but in all honesty what good will that do? Without the Sun the Earth is just a spinning ball of Death waiting to be realized. Without the sun, eventually all of Earth's resources will be consumed, because there are no renewable resources. You think fungi will be able to feast on dead fungi forever? Every generation there will be less and less, lost to life processes, wasted, burned, gone. Eukaryotic life will burn out without the Sun. Don't try to say that Life has bounced back before; an asteroid impact is so much less of a shock than an instant loss of the entire bottom part of the food chain. The Earth would be doomed, end of story.
And as for fleeing the solar-system? And you called my scenario illogical. Humanity has been reduced to fire-scrounging wildmen; they must rebuild the world order before they even think of leaving the planet, assuming they even make it through a single year. None of which is very likely. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Hawkeye+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hawkeye)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't mean to shed any disrespect on your post. I just simply don't agree. Just my two cents.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In the end, it really doesn't matter. It's a fictional scenario, flawed on many levels, and debating the validity of anyone's points is rather ironic I have to say. Secondly, I didn't even originally intend my post to be scientific, I intended it to be entertainment, and arguing with me while I have poetic license to create any scenario that I wish is rather futile <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I think you just hit negative zort on the respect scale.
<span style='color:orange'>Marik's interrupt: this post refers to one that has since been moved out of the public eye. It refers to a member who will now be restricted from the Discussions forum. If you made a post somewhere recently above this one, don't worry--this post by 5kyh16h91 and the next by Wheeee don't refer to you.</span>
If the sun went out, as in disappeared, rather than just stopped emitting visible light, the earth would turn into a deep-freeze within the week. Animals and plants wouldn't have time to starve to death.
And I doubt anything could adapt+evolve, without any light except the stars.
EDIT: deep-freeze as in -200°C. You can't make homes tight enough around the edges of the doors to survive that.
it could happen.