So no one else immediately thought of <a href='http://duniclopedie.free.fr/Images/Merchandising/Fleer/dune005.jpg' target='_blank'>the guildsmen</a> from Dune?
<!--QuoteBegin-(e)kent+Oct 25 2004, 12:50 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ((e)kent @ Oct 25 2004, 12:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So no one else immediately thought of <a href='http://duniclopedie.free.fr/Images/Merchandising/Fleer/dune005.jpg' target='_blank'>the guildsmen</a> from Dune? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> We're not all over the edge nerds <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-(e)kent+Oct 25 2004, 12:50 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ((e)kent @ Oct 25 2004, 12:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So no one else immediately thought of <a href='http://duniclopedie.free.fr/Images/Merchandising/Fleer/dune005.jpg' target='_blank'>the guildsmen</a> from Dune? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I read most of Dune... Dune is hailed as one of the best SCI-FI/Fantasy classics btw, just as good (if not better) than Lord of the Rings.
Anyhow I can't remember anything about the guildsmen, even though I have read it... hmm... all we need now is menlage!
Let's teach it to play half life. It basicly would be an aimbot <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The 'brain' is about 1/10000th the number of neurons in a rat's original brain. Unless you consider rats to be savants then the AI argument is probably premature.
The 'brain' is about 1/10000th the number of neurons in a rat's original brain. Unless you consider rats to be savants then the AI argument is probably premature. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Gotta start somewhere, Wizard.
That_Annoying_KidSire of TitlesJoin Date: 2003-03-01Member: 14175Members, Constellation
three laws
A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
A robot must obey orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.
I agree with what the wizard said, while having a neural network that can learn to fly a plane is cool, it's nowhere at the level of making sentient choices for itself
Has anyone read Speaker for the Dead? This got me thinking as to if the brain thing got hooked to the internet. Would it be like the entity in that book where it would be a trojan of some sort utilizing every computer hooked to the internet to better itself, living within the net?
The 'brain' is about 1/10000th the number of neurons in a rat's original brain. Unless you consider rats to be savants then the AI argument is probably premature. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> True, but neural nets are a fundamental component of AI reasearch. Unfortunatly artificial neural nets (as in computer simulations) can't be made very large due to the resources nessesary. Being able to do this sort of thing will give use the ability to study much larger neural nets while still being able to limit their size to something reasonable.
Well, I only just started this semester and along with it my Neuro-Fuzzy Methods course, but here are some of the things i picked up so far about neural nets: Give a neural net some input and tell it, what you expect as an answer and it will learn to give you that answer, testing out certain ways to remember a combination of input and corresponding answer. To put it simple, if you hook it up to a flight simulator and tell it to fly from A to B without crashing the plane, it will find a way trough trial and error. That is all there is to it, it can not grow by itself (at least a computer based one, can't talk about brain cells here) or write itself some new code. This is still far from AI, although it is of course the way there (why else would I put up with this stuff? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> ). I do have one question though. What do people talk about when refering to Actual Intelligence? If it was somehow <i>created</i> by man, it would still be artificial. Am I missing a clue somewhere?
<!--QuoteBegin-Dr_133t+Oct 24 2004, 05:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dr_133t @ Oct 24 2004, 05:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Oct 24 2004, 12:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Oct 24 2004, 12:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So how long is it before we teach it to shoot? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Should be one of the first things we should teach it so we can send over some super soldiers to middle east. Make them perfectly accurate, strong and fast, and tell them killing baddies is fun:) Then we just let them have fun. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Quite fitting that this comment comes from a guy with a big red "BUSH RULES" in his sig.
<!--QuoteBegin-Nil_IQ+Oct 28 2004, 09:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nil_IQ @ Oct 28 2004, 09:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Dr_133t+Oct 24 2004, 05:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dr_133t @ Oct 24 2004, 05:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Oct 24 2004, 12:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Oct 24 2004, 12:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So how long is it before we teach it to shoot? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Should be one of the first things we should teach it so we can send over some super soldiers to middle east. Make them perfectly accurate, strong and fast, and tell them killing baddies is fun:) Then we just let them have fun. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Quite fitting that this comment comes from a guy with a big red "BUSH RULES" in his sig.
*hides in Republican-proof shelter* <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The three laws of robotics would, if implemented prevent any such scenario from ever happening. That is the one thing though that totally makes these three laws useless outside of Asimov's brilliant fiction. Whoever develops AI first, or robots for that matter, will probably have a military use in mind and even if the developer doesn't, militaries around the world will buy the concepts. If we ever develop AI, no three laws will ever protect us from something going wrong, simply because people will not implement them. Face the truth, people would want killer robots. That is the point were the friend/foe target designation goes wrong and he have our little doomsday scenario.
I found a very interesting <a href='http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200407/s1158247.htm' target='_blank'>article</a> about robots, ai, 3 laws and the possible danger.
Here are some quotations from the professor of cybernetics Kevin Warwick:
"intelligence itself, we don't fully understand what it is"
About the 3 laws "The reality is that many machines, even a financial machine is making a decision that through inaction could cause a whole population or a whole group of people to suffer, making a decision we don't buy coffee from Kenya today, we buy coffee from Brazil. When we look at the real world, Asimov's rules are, quite simply, not there."
"The way robots... think has all sorts of advantages, not only the mathematical, the number-crunching, but the memory capabilities, the way to think in many, many dimensions, whereas the human brain only thinks in three dimensions."
"It is the differences that are important, and it is the differences really that are extremely dangerous, because the machine can outperform humans not only physically but also mentally."
"Danger lies in what the robot has learnt."
"It's when there is not only A, B, C or D, but also a possible choice, E, that we had no idea about at all."
*********************** More info in the article, also some of his cyborg experiments where he hooked his nervous system with a computer to get an extra sense.
Comments
We're not all over the edge nerds <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
(just kidding <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
I read most of Dune... Dune is hailed as one of the best SCI-FI/Fantasy classics btw, just as good (if not better) than Lord of the Rings.
Anyhow I can't remember anything about the guildsmen, even though I have read it... hmm... all we need now is menlage!
The 'brain' is about 1/10000th the number of neurons in a rat's original brain. Unless you consider rats to be savants then the AI argument is probably premature.
The 'brain' is about 1/10000th the number of neurons in a rat's original brain. Unless you consider rats to be savants then the AI argument is probably premature. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Gotta start somewhere, Wizard.
Fixed
<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Fixed
<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lo, I am ruptured.
A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
A robot must obey orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.
I agree with what the wizard said, while having a neural network that can learn to fly a plane is cool, it's nowhere at the level of making sentient choices for itself
The 'brain' is about 1/10000th the number of neurons in a rat's original brain. Unless you consider rats to be savants then the AI argument is probably premature. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
True, but neural nets are a fundamental component of AI reasearch. Unfortunatly artificial neural nets (as in computer simulations) can't be made very large due to the resources nessesary. Being able to do this sort of thing will give use the ability to study much larger neural nets while still being able to limit their size to something reasonable.
Give a neural net some input and tell it, what you expect as an answer and it will learn to give you that answer, testing out certain ways to remember a combination of input and corresponding answer.
To put it simple, if you hook it up to a flight simulator and tell it to fly from A to B without crashing the plane, it will find a way trough trial and error.
That is all there is to it, it can not grow by itself (at least a computer based one, can't talk about brain cells here) or write itself some new code. This is still far from AI, although it is of course the way there (why else would I put up with this stuff? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> ).
I do have one question though. What do people talk about when refering to Actual Intelligence? If it was somehow <i>created</i> by man, it would still be artificial. Am I missing a clue somewhere?
In conclussion: That is pretty sweet.
Should be one of the first things we should teach it so we can send over some super soldiers to middle east. Make them perfectly accurate, strong and fast, and tell them killing baddies is fun:) Then we just let them have fun. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Quite fitting that this comment comes from a guy with a big red "BUSH RULES" in his sig.
*hides in Republican-proof shelter*
You know we do have bunker buster bombs....right? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Should be one of the first things we should teach it so we can send over some super soldiers to middle east. Make them perfectly accurate, strong and fast, and tell them killing baddies is fun:) Then we just let them have fun. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Quite fitting that this comment comes from a guy with a big red "BUSH RULES" in his sig.
*hides in Republican-proof shelter* <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The three laws of robotics would, if implemented prevent any such scenario from ever happening.
That is the one thing though that totally makes these three laws useless outside of Asimov's brilliant fiction. Whoever develops AI first, or robots for that matter, will probably have a military use in mind and even if the developer doesn't, militaries around the world will buy the concepts.
If we ever develop AI, no three laws will ever protect us from something going wrong, simply because people will not implement them. Face the truth, people would want killer robots. That is the point were the friend/foe target designation goes wrong and he have our little doomsday scenario.
Dual Pentium HumanBrain-Genius class. 1 Terrabyte of RAM. Infinate storage space.
Only for....
1,000,000,000,000 USD
Here are some quotations from the professor of cybernetics Kevin Warwick:
"intelligence itself, we don't fully understand what it is"
About the 3 laws
"The reality is that many machines, even a financial machine is making a decision that through inaction could cause a whole population or a whole group of people to suffer, making a decision we don't buy coffee from Kenya today, we buy coffee from Brazil.
When we look at the real world, Asimov's rules are, quite simply, not there."
"The way robots... think has all sorts of advantages, not only the mathematical, the number-crunching, but the memory capabilities, the way to think in many, many dimensions, whereas the human brain only thinks in three dimensions."
"It is the differences that are important, and it is the differences really that are extremely dangerous, because the machine can outperform humans not only physically but also mentally."
"Danger lies in what the robot has learnt."
"It's when there is not only A, B, C or D, but also a possible choice, E, that we had no idea about at all."
***********************
More info in the article, also some of his cyborg experiments where he hooked his nervous system with a computer to get an extra sense.
Happy reading.