<!--QuoteBegin-Cereal_KillR+Oct 25 2004, 10:18 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cereal_KillR @ Oct 25 2004, 10:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Renegade+Oct 25 2004, 05:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Renegade @ Oct 25 2004, 05:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Why is it that we place the blame on either firearms or alcohol instead of the person who made the concious decision to unholster the gun and pull the trigger? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> because without a gun, he would not have unholstered it. And without alcohol, he probably wouldn't have had his mind gone down the drain. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> if he had half a brain he wouldnt buy/steal/have a gun and wouldnt be drinking he made the choice to drink he made the choice to take a gun he made the choice to shoot plain and simple give him the death penalty
i only assume its a he because i have yet to see a drunk 17 year old girl carrying a gun
<!--QuoteBegin-Invader Scoot+Oct 26 2004, 01:13 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Invader Scoot @ Oct 26 2004, 01:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ahh, now there's the key word, <s>milk</s> <i>alcohol</i>. The end of every promising beginning is cast down by either drugs or alcohol.
Be smart, don't drink. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No, be smart, drink responsibly.
<!--QuoteBegin-esuna+Oct 26 2004, 09:58 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (esuna @ Oct 26 2004, 09:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Invader Scoot+Oct 26 2004, 01:13 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Invader Scoot @ Oct 26 2004, 01:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ahh, now there's the key word, <s>milk</s> <i>alcohol</i>. The end of every promising beginning is cast down by either drugs or alcohol.
Be smart, don't drink. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, be smart, drink responsibly. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> *blinks* Esuna? Is that you?
Yeah, alcohol.. I really don't get why people want to get drunk as hell. The buzz should be enough, but meh.
<!--QuoteBegin-ZeroByte+Oct 26 2004, 02:10 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ZeroByte @ Oct 26 2004, 02:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-esuna+Oct 26 2004, 09:58 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (esuna @ Oct 26 2004, 09:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Invader Scoot+Oct 26 2004, 01:13 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Invader Scoot @ Oct 26 2004, 01:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ahh, now there's the key word, <s>milk</s> <i>alcohol</i>. The end of every promising beginning is cast down by either drugs or alcohol.
Be smart, don't drink. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, be smart, drink responsibly. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> *blinks* Esuna? Is that you?
Yeah, alcohol.. I really don't get why people want to get drunk as hell. The buzz should be enough, but meh.
(Seriously though.. what did you do with esuna) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I enjoy drinking, i enjoy being drunk, however, if some arsehole goes and kills people because he's drunk, that doesn't mean that alcohol is the problem. Sure, even in this case, the gun isn't the problem, the problem is that some arsehole managed to get a hold of one and is evidently capable of no self control to do something retarded.
If we held by the mentality of banning anything that might of caused a death look at this way:
no cars no games no movies no expensive clothing no money no anything
<!--QuoteBegin-esuna+Oct 25 2004, 09:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (esuna @ Oct 25 2004, 09:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If we held by the mentality of banning anything that might of caused a death look at this way:
no cars no games no movies no expensive clothing no money no anything <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> My child was stillborn! Sue the government, ban pregnancy!
<!--QuoteBegin-Cereal_KillR+Oct 25 2004, 04:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cereal_KillR @ Oct 25 2004, 04:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It might also be the fact American Society has access to guns so easily.
Idiots who pull triggers should not be allowed to have guns. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And thats what Medium Gun Control is good for.
Serious Gun Control takes guns out of smart people's hands, and will fail to removed them from criminals hands. Since...you know..they are criminals, and wont turn in their guns that they probably stole, or bought illegally.
My family is full of gun owners, my grandpa manufactured a rolling block revolutionary war rifle (recreation, of course) for quite some time, and my direct family (Dad, me, etc) have 14. I feel safe knowing that if those guys in LA tried something more than a Driveby, say a walk in, I would of been equipped to deal with them.
Taking away firearms from us (the american people) would not solve anything. As funbags just said, it would cause the smart people to lose guns, and the bad guys to keep them.
You can give a guy a pen, and he would use that pen to stab our your eye or your throat. You can give a guy a detonator to an atomic bomb, and he won't go anywhere near that token red button. I wouldn't even think of hitting it, I'd to my best to find somebody who could dissassemble that detonator, and then the atomic bomb. Why? Because I was brought up to not blow up atomic bombs. Or shoot people, or stab people, or get drunk and start fights. As was said before [but suprisingly late in a 5 page thread], that person made the decision to have a gun, and arm that gun, and take it to that party. 3 complete decisions [alcohol aside] that would have completely defused the situation and made it impossible for a gun to shoot a girl in the head. But he decided, on all three matters, to bring a lethal weapon to a fun, relaxing social event for kids.
And that other story, where 4 hispanic kids demanded to be given access to a friendly party [described as more of a gathering], and demanded it with a gun. Note how there would have been dozens, even hundreds of other kids in that area who did not ask to go to the party, and bring a gun. Why? Because they were not brought up to be scum.
I'm not saying every part of every person's life is a direct result of their parent's involvement [or lack thereof] in their life, but parents and other authority figures are there to teach people, especially children, how to act and what to do. And when kids are going around shooting people at parties, I have to ask what happened to the life lessons, because the kids certainly don't have them.
<!--QuoteBegin-Invader Scoot+Oct 25 2004, 09:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Invader Scoot @ Oct 25 2004, 09:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Taking away firearms from us (the american people) would not solve anything. As funbags just said, it would cause the smart people to lose guns, and the bad guys to keep them. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It WOULD prevent spur of the moment drunken shootings though, or random revenge killings...
Like you say however, gun laws don't prevent deliberated shootings, since the people who would deliberately shoot others probably haven't been following the gun laws anyways.
At least if no one has guns, and two random guys get in a fight in a bar, the chance of lethal consequences is drastically lower.
<!--QuoteBegin-Chrono+Oct 26 2004, 03:13 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Chrono @ Oct 26 2004, 03:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Cereal_KillR+Oct 25 2004, 10:18 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cereal_KillR @ Oct 25 2004, 10:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Renegade+Oct 25 2004, 05:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Renegade @ Oct 25 2004, 05:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Why is it that we place the blame on either firearms or alcohol instead of the person who made the concious decision to unholster the gun and pull the trigger? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> because without a gun, he would not have unholstered it. And without alcohol, he probably wouldn't have had his mind gone down the drain. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> if he had half a brain he wouldnt buy/steal/have a gun and wouldnt be drinking he made the choice to drink he made the choice to take a gun he made the choice to shoot plain and simple give him the death penalty
i only assume its a he because i have yet to see a drunk 17 year old girl carrying a gun <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I have yet to see anyone with a gun.
Though to respond to your "oh no-one smart drinks" comment. I estimate myself quite smart, though I admit I usually drink the occasional can of beer. I might have gotten myself drunk once in my life. I have a whole brain still and I'm probably smarter than the average population (not showing off).
<!--QuoteBegin-Cereal_KillR+Oct 25 2004, 04:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cereal_KillR @ Oct 25 2004, 04:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It might also be the fact American Society has access to guns so easily.
Idiots who pull triggers should not be allowed to have guns. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> And thats what Medium Gun Control is good for.
<!--QuoteBegin-funbags+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (funbags)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Serious Gun Control takes guns out of smart people's hands, and will fail to removed them from criminals hands. Since...you know..they are criminals, and wont turn in their guns that they probably stole, or bought illegally.
My family is full of gun owners, my grandpa manufactured a rolling block revolutionary war rifle (recreation, of course) for quite some time, and my direct family (Dad, me, etc) have 14. I feel safe knowing that if those guys in LA tried something more than a Driveby, say a walk in, I would of been equipped to deal with them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Criminals in France and most countries with strict gun control don't have guns. And I feel perfectly safe in an everyday basis. Sure, huge terrorist organisations will have giant arsenals, but there's nothing you can do here. The local tough guy/bully won't have a gun to make him so tough, though. And as far as I know, that's where the majority of incidents take place.
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Oct 26 2004, 04:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Oct 26 2004, 04:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Invader Scoot+Oct 25 2004, 09:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Invader Scoot @ Oct 25 2004, 09:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Taking away firearms from us (the american people) would not solve anything. As funbags just said, it would cause the smart people to lose guns, and the bad guys to keep them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It WOULD prevent spur of the moment drunken shootings though, or random revenge killings...
Like you say however, gun laws don't prevent deliberated shootings, since the people who would deliberately shoot others probably haven't been following the gun laws anyways.
At least if no one has guns, and two random guys get in a fight in a bar, the chance of lethal consequences is drastically lower. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Quoted for emphasis.
I was typing out a response, but swiftspear pretty much sums up my basic views. This is what I meant earlier in my comment that I've never encountered guns or gun incidents here in Australia.
For the argument that "why take it away from those who can be responsible, just because of the few that can't be", I want to ask you a question:
Do you lock your car door when you park at the supermarket? Chances are, you do. Why?
Because despite the fact that the vast majority of people will walk past your car and not steal it, you KNOW that if you leave the door unlocked, or leave the key inside the car even, then you greatly increase the risk of it being stolen. This analogy goes further, when you consider the career criminal. He doesn't care if your car is locked or not, although he might prefer the latter, he doesn't care, and he'll take the car anyway. The reason you lock your car and don't leave the key on the dash is because you want to deter the guy just walking past who on the spur of the moment decides that your Holden ute would look tops in his driveway. Nor would he shoot any 17 year olds with said utility vehicle.
In conclusion, kids like the ones in these tragic stories we have read would not be able to have gotten those guns if they lived in Australia.
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
edited October 2004
<!--QuoteBegin-Legionnaired+Oct 25 2004, 02:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Legionnaired @ Oct 25 2004, 02:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Epidemic+Oct 25 2004, 11:45 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Epidemic @ Oct 25 2004, 11:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <b>scumbag</b> + alcohol (makes it easier to overcome the obstacable to hit someone) * guns <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Fixed. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I find your counter-retort very clever. However you fail to provide the reasoning on what makes a scumbag. But, just keep carry on your preimposed judgement, wee!
<!--QuoteBegin-AlienCow!+Oct 25 2004, 05:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AlienCow! @ Oct 25 2004, 05:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I am so glad I live in England. Thankfully gun crime is rather rare around here... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah. Shame assault and battery, sexual attacks, and pretty much any other crime that doesn't exactly involve guns are on the rise and have been for years.
Stopping guns isn't some huge solution to all crime. Don't be so naive. Any of you. I think a lot of you Americans take your right to bear arms for granted. But that's just me living in little ol' England.
(not exactly on topic, but yeah. Kinda where the topic is veering off to.)
A) Ban guns. If no one has a gun, no one(and by no one I mean small time criminals, not the freakin' mafia) would use a gun.
B) Give everyone guns. If everyone had a gun, no one would use a gun.
Sorry to hear about the girl though. I know a couple kids got in a race and died at this party I was thinking of going to and had not. Although it was noone I knew, it still shook me up because I could have been there. This must be ten times worse for you because it's harder to kill someone in a house with a car than it is to kill someone in a house with a gun. Have you talked to people about it?
<!--QuoteBegin-Cereal_KillR+Oct 26 2004, 02:44 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cereal_KillR @ Oct 26 2004, 02:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Chrono+Oct 26 2004, 03:13 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Chrono @ Oct 26 2004, 03:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Cereal_KillR+Oct 25 2004, 10:18 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cereal_KillR @ Oct 25 2004, 10:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Renegade+Oct 25 2004, 05:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Renegade @ Oct 25 2004, 05:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Why is it that we place the blame on either firearms or alcohol instead of the person who made the concious decision to unholster the gun and pull the trigger? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> because without a gun, he would not have unholstered it. And without alcohol, he probably wouldn't have had his mind gone down the drain. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> if he had half a brain he wouldnt buy/steal/have a gun and wouldnt be drinking he made the choice to drink he made the choice to take a gun he made the choice to shoot plain and simple give him the death penalty
i only assume its a he because i have yet to see a drunk 17 year old girl carrying a gun <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I have yet to see anyone with a gun.
Though to respond to your "oh no-one smart drinks" comment. I estimate myself quite smart, though I admit I usually drink the occasional can of beer. I might have gotten myself drunk once in my life. I have a whole brain still and I'm probably smarter than the average population (not showing off). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> i didnt mean your dumb because you drink i meant your dumb if your carrying a gun and drinking sorry for the confusion
<!--QuoteBegin-docchimpy+Oct 27 2004, 06:44 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (docchimpy @ Oct 27 2004, 06:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> B) Give everyone guns. If everyone had a gun, no one would use a gun. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Baaad logic there. I don't even know where to begin. What's the reasoning behind this?? Or have you been huffing paint again docchimpy..
<!--QuoteBegin-eediot+Oct 26 2004, 10:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (eediot @ Oct 26 2004, 10:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-docchimpy+Oct 27 2004, 06:44 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (docchimpy @ Oct 27 2004, 06:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> B) Give everyone guns. If everyone had a gun, no one would use a gun. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Baaad logic there. I don't even know where to begin. What's the reasoning behind this?? Or have you been huffing paint again docchimpy.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> it makes sence to me.
<!--QuoteBegin-eediot+Oct 26 2004, 11:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (eediot @ Oct 26 2004, 11:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-docchimpy+Oct 27 2004, 06:44 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (docchimpy @ Oct 27 2004, 06:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> B) Give everyone guns. If everyone had a gun, no one would use a gun. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Baaad logic there. I don't even know where to begin. What's the reasoning behind this?? Or have you been huffing paint again docchimpy.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Unfortunately, this bit of bad logic is correct. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> A friend of mine lives in Kentucky. Literally <b>everyone</b> in the city near her has a gun. And gun-related crimes are quite rare there. Everyone has a gun, nobody wants to get shot. Therefore, nobody commits a crime.
Private_ColemanPhD in Video GamesJoin Date: 2002-11-07Member: 7510Members
<!--QuoteBegin-CForrester+Oct 26 2004, 11:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CForrester @ Oct 26 2004, 11:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-eediot+Oct 26 2004, 11:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (eediot @ Oct 26 2004, 11:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-docchimpy+Oct 27 2004, 06:44 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (docchimpy @ Oct 27 2004, 06:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> B) Give everyone guns. If everyone had a gun, no one would use a gun. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Baaad logic there. I don't even know where to begin. What's the reasoning behind this?? Or have you been huffing paint again docchimpy.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Unfortunately, this bit of bad logic is correct. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> A friend of mine lives in Kentucky. Literally <b>everyone</b> in the city near her has a gun. And gun-related crimes are quite rare there. Everyone has a gun, nobody wants to get shot. Therefore, nobody commits a crime. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The only problem is the world is full of idiots.
That's the kind of logic that logic that, in my eyes, falls apart when you take a look at people's illogical tendancies. Factor in irresponsible alcohol/drug consumption, mental instabilities, attitude problems, even general confidence and willingness to use a gun [on both the goodies and the baddies' parts] and you've got the same old problems. Some punk kid finds his dad's ill-secured firearm, goes off and has a few drinks with his buddies, it's the same bloody problem. How is it any different from what happened at that party? Even if everybody else had a gun; who's to say they would have the courage/confidence to shoot him in self-defence, or be a good shot, or even consider taking a gun to the party with them? Guns and alcohol don't mix. Yet the kid took the gun to the party.
<!--QuoteBegin-Private Coleman+Oct 27 2004, 01:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Private Coleman @ Oct 27 2004, 01:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What we need is me overthrowing the government and then ruling the world with a corrupt iron-fist dictatorship and banning breakfast cereals. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm going to kill you, you raisen bran hating lunitic <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Private_ColemanPhD in Video GamesJoin Date: 2002-11-07Member: 7510Members
edited October 2004
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Oct 27 2004, 01:30 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Oct 27 2004, 01:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Private Coleman+Oct 27 2004, 01:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Private Coleman @ Oct 27 2004, 01:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What we need is me overthrowing the government and then ruling the world with a corrupt iron-fist dictatorship and banning breakfast cereals. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm going to kill you, you raisen bran hating lunitic <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ha...! Fat chance...
EDIT: BTW that was my answer for geography if "what would you do if the government tried to build a sewerage treatment plant next to your school?"
Hah. Next to my school? Nothing. I don't care about school, serves em right. Next to my house, however.. boy, the sewerage will really hit the fan then <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Private Coleman+Oct 27 2004, 01:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Private Coleman @ Oct 27 2004, 01:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Oct 27 2004, 01:30 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Oct 27 2004, 01:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Private Coleman+Oct 27 2004, 01:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Private Coleman @ Oct 27 2004, 01:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What we need is me overthrowing the government and then ruling the world with a corrupt iron-fist dictatorship and banning breakfast cereals. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm going to kill you, you raisen bran hating lunitic <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ha...! Fat chance...
EDIT: BTW that was my answer for geography if "what would you do if the government tried to build a sewerage treatment plant next to your school?" <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You actually wrote to your teacher that you were going to kill them because they were a raisen bran hating lunitic? Kids have been put into mental institutions for less then that!
Comments
because without a gun, he would not have unholstered it. And without alcohol, he probably wouldn't have had his mind gone down the drain. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
if he had half a brain he wouldnt buy/steal/have a gun and wouldnt be drinking he made the choice to drink he made the choice to take a gun he made the choice to shoot plain and simple give him the death penalty
i only assume its a he because i have yet to see a drunk 17 year old girl carrying a gun
Be smart, don't drink.
Be smart, don't drink. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, be smart, drink responsibly.
Be smart, don't drink. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, be smart, drink responsibly. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
*blinks* Esuna? Is that you?
Yeah, alcohol.. I really don't get why people want to get drunk as hell. The buzz should be enough, but meh.
(Seriously though.. what did you do with esuna)
Be smart, don't drink. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, be smart, drink responsibly. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
*blinks* Esuna? Is that you?
Yeah, alcohol.. I really don't get why people want to get drunk as hell. The buzz should be enough, but meh.
(Seriously though.. what did you do with esuna) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I enjoy drinking, i enjoy being drunk, however, if some arsehole goes and kills people because he's drunk, that doesn't mean that alcohol is the problem. Sure, even in this case, the gun isn't the problem, the problem is that some arsehole managed to get a hold of one and is evidently capable of no self control to do something retarded.
If we held by the mentality of banning anything that might of caused a death look at this way:
no cars
no games
no movies
no expensive clothing
no money
no anything
no cars
no games
no movies
no expensive clothing
no money
no anything <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
My child was stillborn! Sue the government, ban pregnancy!
Idiots who pull triggers should not be allowed to have guns. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
And thats what Medium Gun Control is good for.
Serious Gun Control takes guns out of smart people's hands, and will fail to removed them from criminals hands. Since...you know..they are criminals, and wont turn in their guns that they probably stole, or bought illegally.
My family is full of gun owners, my grandpa manufactured a rolling block revolutionary war rifle (recreation, of course) for quite some time, and my direct family (Dad, me, etc) have 14. I feel safe knowing that if those guys in LA tried something more than a Driveby, say a walk in, I would of been equipped to deal with them.
You can give a guy a pen, and he would use that pen to stab our your eye or your throat. You can give a guy a detonator to an atomic bomb, and he won't go anywhere near that token red button. I wouldn't even think of hitting it, I'd to my best to find somebody who could dissassemble that detonator, and then the atomic bomb. Why? Because I was brought up to not blow up atomic bombs. Or shoot people, or stab people, or get drunk and start fights. As was said before [but suprisingly late in a 5 page thread], that person made the decision to have a gun, and arm that gun, and take it to that party. 3 complete decisions [alcohol aside] that would have completely defused the situation and made it impossible for a gun to shoot a girl in the head. But he decided, on all three matters, to bring a lethal weapon to a fun, relaxing social event for kids.
And that other story, where 4 hispanic kids demanded to be given access to a friendly party [described as more of a gathering], and demanded it with a gun. Note how there would have been dozens, even hundreds of other kids in that area who did not ask to go to the party, and bring a gun. Why? Because they were not brought up to be scum.
I'm not saying every part of every person's life is a direct result of their parent's involvement [or lack thereof] in their life, but parents and other authority figures are there to teach people, especially children, how to act and what to do. And when kids are going around shooting people at parties, I have to ask what happened to the life lessons, because the kids certainly don't have them.
It WOULD prevent spur of the moment drunken shootings though, or random revenge killings...
Like you say however, gun laws don't prevent deliberated shootings, since the people who would deliberately shoot others probably haven't been following the gun laws anyways.
At least if no one has guns, and two random guys get in a fight in a bar, the chance of lethal consequences is drastically lower.
because without a gun, he would not have unholstered it. And without alcohol, he probably wouldn't have had his mind gone down the drain. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
if he had half a brain he wouldnt buy/steal/have a gun and wouldnt be drinking he made the choice to drink he made the choice to take a gun he made the choice to shoot plain and simple give him the death penalty
i only assume its a he because i have yet to see a drunk 17 year old girl carrying a gun <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have yet to see anyone with a gun.
Though to respond to your "oh no-one smart drinks" comment. I estimate myself quite smart, though I admit I usually drink the occasional can of beer. I might have gotten myself drunk once in my life. I have a whole brain still and I'm probably smarter than the average population (not showing off).
<!--QuoteBegin-Cereal_KillR+Oct 25 2004, 04:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cereal_KillR @ Oct 25 2004, 04:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It might also be the fact American Society has access to guns so easily.
Idiots who pull triggers should not be allowed to have guns. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And thats what Medium Gun Control is good for.
<!--QuoteBegin-funbags+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (funbags)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Serious Gun Control takes guns out of smart people's hands, and will fail to removed them from criminals hands. Since...you know..they are criminals, and wont turn in their guns that they probably stole, or bought illegally.
My family is full of gun owners, my grandpa manufactured a rolling block revolutionary war rifle (recreation, of course) for quite some time, and my direct family (Dad, me, etc) have 14. I feel safe knowing that if those guys in LA tried something more than a Driveby, say a walk in, I would of been equipped to deal with them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Criminals in France and most countries with strict gun control don't have guns. And I feel perfectly safe in an everyday basis. Sure, huge terrorist organisations will have giant arsenals, but there's nothing you can do here. The local tough guy/bully won't have a gun to make him so tough, though. And as far as I know, that's where the majority of incidents take place.
It WOULD prevent spur of the moment drunken shootings though, or random revenge killings...
Like you say however, gun laws don't prevent deliberated shootings, since the people who would deliberately shoot others probably haven't been following the gun laws anyways.
At least if no one has guns, and two random guys get in a fight in a bar, the chance of lethal consequences is drastically lower. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Quoted for emphasis.
I was typing out a response, but swiftspear pretty much sums up my basic views. This is what I meant earlier in my comment that I've never encountered guns or gun incidents here in Australia.
For the argument that "why take it away from those who can be responsible, just because of the few that can't be", I want to ask you a question:
Do you lock your car door when you park at the supermarket? Chances are, you do. Why?
Because despite the fact that the vast majority of people will walk past your car and not steal it, you KNOW that if you leave the door unlocked, or leave the key inside the car even, then you greatly increase the risk of it being stolen. This analogy goes further, when you consider the career criminal. He doesn't care if your car is locked or not, although he might prefer the latter, he doesn't care, and he'll take the car anyway. The reason you lock your car and don't leave the key on the dash is because you want to deter the guy just walking past who on the spur of the moment decides that your Holden ute would look tops in his driveway. Nor would he shoot any 17 year olds with said utility vehicle.
In conclusion, kids like the ones in these tragic stories we have read would not be able to have gotten those guns if they lived in Australia.
Methinks this would be hard considering the state the US is in at the moment, but in principle...
Fixed. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I find your counter-retort very clever. However you fail to provide the reasoning on what makes a scumbag. But, just keep carry on your preimposed judgement, wee!
Yeah. Shame assault and battery, sexual attacks, and pretty much any other crime that doesn't exactly involve guns are on the rise and have been for years.
Stopping guns isn't some huge solution to all crime. Don't be so naive. Any of you. I think a lot of you Americans take your right to bear arms for granted. But that's just me living in little ol' England.
(not exactly on topic, but yeah. Kinda where the topic is veering off to.)
[sarcasm]But of course they're great for fending off attacks from scary minorities like hispanics.[/sarcasm]
A) Ban guns. If no one has a gun, no one(and by no one I mean small time criminals, not the freakin' mafia) would use a gun.
B) Give everyone guns. If everyone had a gun, no one would use a gun.
Sorry to hear about the girl though. I know a couple kids got in a race and died at this party I was thinking of going to and had not. Although it was noone I knew, it still shook me up because I could have been there. This must be ten times worse for you because it's harder to kill someone in a house with a car than it is to kill someone in a house with a gun. Have you talked to people about it?
because without a gun, he would not have unholstered it. And without alcohol, he probably wouldn't have had his mind gone down the drain. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
if he had half a brain he wouldnt buy/steal/have a gun and wouldnt be drinking he made the choice to drink he made the choice to take a gun he made the choice to shoot plain and simple give him the death penalty
i only assume its a he because i have yet to see a drunk 17 year old girl carrying a gun <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have yet to see anyone with a gun.
Though to respond to your "oh no-one smart drinks" comment. I estimate myself quite smart, though I admit I usually drink the occasional can of beer. I might have gotten myself drunk once in my life. I have a whole brain still and I'm probably smarter than the average population (not showing off).
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
i didnt mean your dumb because you drink i meant your dumb if your carrying a gun and drinking sorry for the confusion
Baaad logic there. I don't even know where to begin. What's the reasoning behind this?? Or have you been huffing paint again docchimpy..
Baaad logic there. I don't even know where to begin. What's the reasoning behind this?? Or have you been huffing paint again docchimpy.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
it makes sence to me.
Baaad logic there. I don't even know where to begin. What's the reasoning behind this?? Or have you been huffing paint again docchimpy.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unfortunately, this bit of bad logic is correct. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> A friend of mine lives in Kentucky. Literally <b>everyone</b> in the city near her has a gun. And gun-related crimes are quite rare there. Everyone has a gun, nobody wants to get shot. Therefore, nobody commits a crime.
Baaad logic there. I don't even know where to begin. What's the reasoning behind this?? Or have you been huffing paint again docchimpy.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unfortunately, this bit of bad logic is correct. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> A friend of mine lives in Kentucky. Literally <b>everyone</b> in the city near her has a gun. And gun-related crimes are quite rare there. Everyone has a gun, nobody wants to get shot. Therefore, nobody commits a crime. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The only problem is the world is full of idiots.
No, I really don't see your logic there.
I'm going to kill you, you raisen bran hating lunitic <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I'm going to kill you, you raisen bran hating lunitic <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ha...! Fat chance...
EDIT: BTW that was my answer for geography if "what would you do if the government tried to build a sewerage treatment plant next to your school?"
I'm going to kill you, you raisen bran hating lunitic <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ha...! Fat chance...
EDIT: BTW that was my answer for geography if "what would you do if the government tried to build a sewerage treatment plant next to your school?" <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You actually wrote to your teacher that you were going to kill them because they were a raisen bran hating lunitic? Kids have been put into mental institutions for less then that!