<!--QuoteBegin-Luukas+Nov 15 2004, 05:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Luukas @ Nov 15 2004, 05:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Starcraft did have a pretty decent storyline, considering it was ripped from WH40K fluff, and changed enough to avoid legal conflict.
I will give credit to HL for introducing properly used scripted events, nothing more (which nowadays are a <i>plague</i>). I found System Shock to be much more immersive, and it was released four years earlier... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> anything that someone finally uses correctly becomes trite and overused in large creative industries.
here it's scripted events in movies it was the camera zooming effect first used well by Hitchcock... then everyone else did it.
Just because it later becomes a problem and not appreciated in new works does not mean the original is diminished.
Half Life ruled everyone because of how it presented everything to the player and how the game forced the player to use friendly AI to survive. There was player AI interaction on a far more advanced level than anything else. Also, the enemy AI actually used decent tactics, that were, in its day, quite advanced.
No one will disagree with you that the basic plot, for much of Half Life, is cliche. It comes from years of good and bad sci fi material infiltrating the obvious nerds that create amazing games like Half Life.
However, Half Life took a cliche plot line and made you not care about plot line, like you're playing in someone else's shoes. You were Gordon Freeman, making choices and tactical decisions. You had puzzles to solve, friendlies to work with, and a wide array of character types that you fought against.
The only part of Half Life I hated was the one script sequence of the soldiers dumping Freeman into the trash compactor. That was rather anti-climatic, but I suppose there needed to be a way to force the player to restart and continue your fight as Gordon Freeman.
Also, possibly one of the most interesting and unique characters is the G-Man, since he is the one who really makes the game what it is. The storyline of a failed science experiment is a backdrop of the testing of Gordon Freeman as a possible minion of the G-Man's clients to affect the world at large, since that is what Freeman did.
We don't even know the extent of the storyline of Half Life, only what Gordon knows. That, in itself, is strange and unique for a game.
In the end, it is a matter of personal preference. I loved Half Life, and I'm looking forward to Half Life 2 itself, because I know it's going to spank all other games in so many ways.
I'm not going to describe why Half-life was a good game, there are thousands of reviews and awards to do just that. Half-life, for me, was fun. Before it, I was playing sonic the hedgehog, ghosts 'n goblins, time crisis. Half-life was just fun, believe it or not, fun. That's what games are for right?
And, I think its nice how you want to be different and roll your eyes at HL2. But the rest of us really, really want "the most anticipated PC game ever".
NEO_PhyteWe need shirtgons!Join Date: 2003-12-16Member: 24453Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-Mantrid+Nov 15 2004, 09:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mantrid @ Nov 15 2004, 09:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Because you'll see things like this in HL2:
And, I think its nice how you want to be different and roll your eyes at HL2. But the rest of us really, really want "the most anticipated PC game ever". <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> is that zombie holding a rifle?
NEO_PhyteWe need shirtgons!Join Date: 2003-12-16Member: 24453Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-Chrono+Nov 15 2004, 09:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Chrono @ Nov 15 2004, 09:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> no neophyte its father grigoreh (spelling?) he was the priest with the winchester in the trailers <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> i havent been watching trailors (except for the ones that came with my brothers copy of CS:CZ)
Chem, you seem to have missed the point. You're on a forum for a half-life mod, in a thread about half-life 2, and you're trying to argue that half-life was not a good game? I suggest going back in time 6 years, because it's a bit too late to try and tell people that their fun days playing half-life were all imagined.
And, I think its nice how you want to be different and roll your eyes at HL2. But the rest of us really, really want "the most anticipated PC game ever". <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> is that zombie holding a rifle? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Fairly sure that's Farthe Grigory or whoever he is...he does have a beard, after all.
Plus, I'm still not sure how you're blocking that HL is so sought after... Perhaps it's the fact that Unreal, FF7, Fallout 2, Balduer's Gate (and maybe even Elder Scrolls: Redguard) had better stories but somehow HL came back on top through presentation, innovation and AI.
...however, it seems like everything is unoriginal to everybody, nowadays. And I've expressed this point before. You might as well say "OLO THAT GAME HAS GUNS ITS SO CLICHE!!!!!!11"...so, I'm going to ask everyone here:
What isn't a <a href='http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=cliche' target='_blank'>cliché</a> (I hate that word...and its stupid little French accented e)?
<!--QuoteBegin-Chem+Nov 15 2004, 01:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Chem @ Nov 15 2004, 01:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> How was it told? GORDON PUSH THIS CRATE INTO THE BEAM. OH NOES. GORDON TO THE SURFACE. GORDON THE MILITARY IS EVIL. GORDON GO TO THE TRAIN. GORDON LAUNCH THE MISSILE. GORDON TO LAMBDA. GORDON CASTRATION OR XEN. There was no immersiveness to it at all. Opposing force was 10x better and much more immersive. Partly infact because it was believable. A marine who's plane is shot down. Trying to find out his orders. Linking up with fellow marines and kicking butt with excessive amounts of firepower.
Not pocket protector dweeb who goes from shoving crates around a lab to killing entire batalions of marines with a shotgun. With a very healthy dose of crate puzzles. Boy those were fun
HL2 will probably be different since it's known gordon is some hardass nerd with a gun now. But before it was like. Riggghhht. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> LMAO BEST POST EVAR
<!--QuoteBegin-version91x+Nov 16 2004, 03:39 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (version91x @ Nov 16 2004, 03:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Chem, you seem to have missed the point. You're on a forum for a half-life mod, in a thread about half-life 2, and you're trying to argue that half-life was not a good game? I suggest going back in time 6 years, because it's a bit too late to try and tell people that their fun days playing half-life were all imagined. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> We're discussing the HL1 SP. The engine is quite capable and they did a fine job with the netcode. The game itself was nothing special. The mods kept this game alive. Partly to the fact that modding in Quake 2 SUCKED. You had to edit something like 4 .dll's and the editor was dare I say it worse than Hammer. HL1 was enjoyable except for some really horribly done parts. Namely On A Rail and Xen. Infact as you progress through the game you can see how they just threw random crap together in hopes of getting the product out the door on time. And yes I had fun with HL but I don't consider it the greatest game of all time. Hell it's not even on my top 10 list. Opposing Force is about #8 on that list though.
KungFuSquirrelBasher of MuttonsJoin Date: 2002-01-26Member: 103Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
<!--QuoteBegin-Chem+Nov 16 2004, 12:21 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Chem @ Nov 16 2004, 12:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Partly to the fact that modding in Quake 2 SUCKED. You had to edit something like 4 .dll's and the editor was dare I say it worse than Hammer. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Worldcraft was available at the time, you know. Its Quake II support wasn't too shabby. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Chem+Nov 15 2004, 09:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Chem @ Nov 15 2004, 09:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-version91x+Nov 16 2004, 03:39 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (version91x @ Nov 16 2004, 03:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Chem, you seem to have missed the point. You're on a forum for a half-life mod, in a thread about half-life 2, and you're trying to argue that half-life was not a good game? I suggest going back in time 6 years, because it's a bit too late to try and tell people that their fun days playing half-life were all imagined. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> We're discussing the HL1 SP. The engine is quite capable and they did a fine job with the netcode. The game itself was nothing special. The mods kept this game alive. Partly to the fact that modding in Quake 2 SUCKED. You had to edit something like 4 .dll's and the editor was dare I say it worse than Hammer. HL1 was enjoyable except for some really horribly done parts. Namely On A Rail and Xen. Infact as you progress through the game you can see how they just threw random crap together in hopes of getting the product out the door on time. And yes I had fun with HL but I don't consider it the greatest game of all time. Hell it's not even on my top 10 list. Opposing Force is about #8 on that list though. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'd like to know whats first, second and third on that list...
And Xen, though done badly, is a really neat concept that I absolutely love.
And the game is special. I managed to get someone who had never played hooked, despite the crappy graphics and his inability to play it online.
And the game was special. You don't just lable something "revolutionary" for no reason. So you can say that it wasn't that great, but Half Life has got 50 Game of the Year awards and a Best Game Ever award that says different.
<!--QuoteBegin-Niteowl+Nov 15 2004, 09:50 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Niteowl @ Nov 15 2004, 09:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-TommyVercetti+Nov 15 2004, 09:47 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TommyVercetti @ Nov 15 2004, 09:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yea, they occasionally show an invincible guy in a suit walking along and OMGZ HL HAS TEHN BEST STOERIEZ!!!11 <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Compare it to the intricate ballet and counter-points of Quake 2 SP, and you'll understand. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Come on, you can't really compare games to other ones to make them look good.
for instance, I, for one, think halo was not that great of a game. But compared to stealthmod, OH MY GOD IT'S GOT REVOLUTIONARY GRAPHICS AND *GASP* YOU CAN PLAY WITHOUT LAG EVERY OTHER SECOND OMGOMOGMGGOOG
Well i have sifted through all the replies and have this to say:
I think "OMGSOMG HL2 IS OUT!!" will be come a famous quote. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
I will give credit to HL for introducing properly used scripted events, nothing more (which nowadays are a <i>plague</i>). I found System Shock to be much more immersive, and it was released four years earlier... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
anything that someone finally uses correctly becomes trite and overused in large creative industries.
here it's scripted events
in movies it was the camera zooming effect first used well by Hitchcock... then everyone else did it.
Just because it later becomes a problem and not appreciated in new works does not mean the original is diminished.
But then, Marathon had similar races and it was out long before StarCraft...
No one will disagree with you that the basic plot, for much of Half Life, is cliche. It comes from years of good and bad sci fi material infiltrating the obvious nerds that create amazing games like Half Life.
However, Half Life took a cliche plot line and made you not care about plot line, like you're playing in someone else's shoes. You were Gordon Freeman, making choices and tactical decisions. You had puzzles to solve, friendlies to work with, and a wide array of character types that you fought against.
The only part of Half Life I hated was the one script sequence of the soldiers dumping Freeman into the trash compactor. That was rather anti-climatic, but I suppose there needed to be a way to force the player to restart and continue your fight as Gordon Freeman.
Also, possibly one of the most interesting and unique characters is the G-Man, since he is the one who really makes the game what it is. The storyline of a failed science experiment is a backdrop of the testing of Gordon Freeman as a possible minion of the G-Man's clients to affect the world at large, since that is what Freeman did.
We don't even know the extent of the storyline of Half Life, only what Gordon knows. That, in itself, is strange and unique for a game.
In the end, it is a matter of personal preference. I loved Half Life, and I'm looking forward to Half Life 2 itself, because I know it's going to spank all other games in so many ways.
<img src='http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2004/reviews/914642_20041112_screen048.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
And, I think its nice how you want to be different and roll your eyes at HL2. But the rest of us really, really want "the most anticipated PC game ever".
<a href='http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2004/reviews/914642_20041112_screen048.jpg' target='_blank'>http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2004/...2_screen048.jpg</a>
And, I think its nice how you want to be different and roll your eyes at HL2. But the rest of us really, really want "the most anticipated PC game ever". <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
is that zombie holding a rifle?
i havent been watching trailors (except for the ones that came with my brothers copy of CS:CZ)
<a href='http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2004/reviews/914642_20041112_screen048.jpg' target='_blank'>http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2004/...2_screen048.jpg</a>
And, I think its nice how you want to be different and roll your eyes at HL2. But the rest of us really, really want "the most anticipated PC game ever". <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
is that zombie holding a rifle? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fairly sure that's Farthe Grigory or whoever he is...he does have a beard, after all.
Plus, I'm still not sure how you're blocking that HL is so sought after... Perhaps it's the fact that Unreal, FF7, Fallout 2, Balduer's Gate (and maybe even Elder Scrolls: Redguard) had better stories but somehow HL came back on top through presentation, innovation and AI.
...however, it seems like everything is unoriginal to everybody, nowadays. And I've expressed this point before. You might as well say "OLO THAT GAME HAS GUNS ITS SO CLICHE!!!!!!11"...so, I'm going to ask everyone here:
What isn't a <a href='http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=cliche' target='_blank'>cliché</a> (I hate that word...and its stupid little French accented e)?
There was no immersiveness to it at all.
Opposing force was 10x better and much more immersive. Partly infact because it was believable. A marine who's plane is shot down. Trying to find out his orders. Linking up with fellow marines and kicking butt with excessive amounts of firepower.
Not pocket protector dweeb who goes from shoving crates around a lab to killing entire batalions of marines with a shotgun. With a very healthy dose of crate puzzles. Boy those were fun
HL2 will probably be different since it's known gordon is some hardass nerd with a gun now. But before it was like. Riggghhht. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
LMAO BEST POST EVAR
We're discussing the HL1 SP. The engine is quite capable and they did a fine job with the netcode.
The game itself was nothing special. The mods kept this game alive. Partly to the fact that modding in Quake 2 SUCKED. You had to edit something like 4 .dll's and the editor was dare I say it worse than Hammer.
HL1 was enjoyable except for some really horribly done parts. Namely On A Rail and Xen. Infact as you progress through the game you can see how they just threw random crap together in hopes of getting the product out the door on time.
And yes I had fun with HL but I don't consider it the greatest game of all time. Hell it's not even on my top 10 list.
Opposing Force is about #8 on that list though.
Worldcraft was available at the time, you know. Its Quake II support wasn't too shabby. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
We're discussing the HL1 SP. The engine is quite capable and they did a fine job with the netcode.
The game itself was nothing special. The mods kept this game alive. Partly to the fact that modding in Quake 2 SUCKED. You had to edit something like 4 .dll's and the editor was dare I say it worse than Hammer.
HL1 was enjoyable except for some really horribly done parts. Namely On A Rail and Xen. Infact as you progress through the game you can see how they just threw random crap together in hopes of getting the product out the door on time.
And yes I had fun with HL but I don't consider it the greatest game of all time. Hell it's not even on my top 10 list.
Opposing Force is about #8 on that list though. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd like to know whats first, second and third on that list...
And Xen, though done badly, is a really neat concept that I absolutely love.
And the game is special. I managed to get someone who had never played hooked, despite the crappy graphics and his inability to play it online.
And the game was special. You don't just lable something "revolutionary" for no reason. So you can say that it wasn't that great, but Half Life has got 50 Game of the Year awards and a Best Game Ever award that says different.
Compare it to the intricate ballet and counter-points of Quake 2 SP, and you'll understand. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Come on, you can't really compare games to other ones to make them look good.
for instance, I, for one, think halo was not that great of a game.
But compared to stealthmod, OH MY GOD IT'S GOT REVOLUTIONARY GRAPHICS AND *GASP* YOU CAN PLAY WITHOUT LAG EVERY OTHER SECOND OMGOMOGMGGOOG
Curse my poor specs!
I think "OMGSOMG HL2 IS OUT!!" will be come a famous quote. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
That is all.