<!--QuoteBegin-themakefunofpplacct+Jan 17 2005, 03:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (themakefunofpplacct @ Jan 17 2005, 03:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So .. you can't leap/bite manually but using a script helps you do it better. Well then, good for you, you found a more comfortable way to play. It's no different than rebinding all your keyboard keys to your own preference. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm not sure where that's coming from. Am I the only person here who makes mistakes?
I flub keys occasionally. I AM NOT COMFORTABLE with scripting to make up for that. In MY OPINION, that is a cop-out and means that I'll have to work harder to do it manually. It's a true measurement of skill to do it that way and scripting skews that. I choose not to do it. I don't tell people that they need to stop and I don't say that it's immoral.
Script away. If folks want to script their leap-bites, fadeswipes, and whatever else requires manual dexterity then they should do so if it makes them feel better.
Leap bite/blink swipe scripts ABSOLUTELY SUCK. Not a single GOOD fade or skulk HAS EVER used one. I'll tell you what though, i'll go on a pub now and i'll play once with a script and once without. I won't tell you which is which we'll see if you can figure that out for yourself. After all, the one i do good in MUST be the one with the script, right?
EDIT: I'll have to do it tommorow, like 11pm right now.
<!--QuoteBegin-obuh+Jan 17 2005, 03:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (obuh @ Jan 17 2005, 03:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I perform better with customized controls. Why complain about mp_bs ? Because it removes one part of the customization possiblities. I revendicate the right to change my controls within the game limits. I don't like it when freedom is removed. Blockscripts claims to stop abusive scripts, when it clearly blocks non-abusive scripts. People should have the choice whether to script or not, but not be forced depending on what the server operator thinks. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Shouldn't server operators have the ability to decide if they want the clients that connect to THEIR SERVER to run scripts?
If you don't like how the server operator runs their server, then you should tell them that. I'm sure they'll hit you up for money for bandwidth or hardware after that and then you can make your decision.
Don't you think that it's a little much telling server operators how they have to run their servers? You don't have to play there. And as you said, removal of customization possibilities is bad. That's just one that the server operators get. To remove it would be bad.
obuhNot Quite Smart at NSJoin Date: 2003-03-31Member: 15072Members, Constellation
edited January 2005
Should the server operator choose what command you are allowed to bind to what key, and what command not to ? No. Or should they force me to use hud_fastswitch 0 because they think hud_fastswitch 1 gives too much of an advantage ? No. So they shouldn't decide if I want to bhop with mwheel or +3jump either.
Basically they tell me to **** off because I use an alternative to the mousewheel. I don't agree with that. I shouldn't be forced to change servers for that.
The server side customization you speak of removes client customization by arbitrarily deciding to block lots of aliases.
<!--QuoteBegin-obuh+Jan 17 2005, 03:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (obuh @ Jan 17 2005, 03:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> But leap-bites, fadeswipes, and other similar garbage hinder more than they help, tbh /: <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Then why defend such garbage or even use it? People currently argue that the 3jump is the only script worth arguing for, if that's the case, there should be a movement to get it added to the game without requiring a script, if it's a legitimate move and easy to perform.
<!--QuoteBegin-Guardian1+Jan 17 2005, 05:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Guardian1 @ Jan 17 2005, 05:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-obuh+Jan 17 2005, 03:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (obuh @ Jan 17 2005, 03:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I perform better with customized controls. Why complain about mp_bs ? Because it removes one part of the customization possiblities. I revendicate the right to change my controls within the game limits. I don't like it when freedom is removed. Blockscripts claims to stop abusive scripts, when it clearly blocks non-abusive scripts. People should have the choice whether to script or not, but not be forced depending on what the server operator thinks. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Shouldn't server operators have the ability to decide if they want the clients that connect to THEIR SERVER to run scripts?
If you don't like how the server operator runs their server, then you should tell them that. I'm sure they'll hit you up for money for bandwidth or hardware after that and then you can make your decision.
Don't you think that it's a little much telling server operators how they have to run their servers? You don't have to play there. And as you said, removal of customization possibilities is bad. That's just one that the server operators get. To remove it would be bad. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> we have been here. please stop now because this argument is fruitless. although i can give you my opinion: giving server admins the ability to control and block certain features of the game is pretty doubtful because it leads to 2 different kinds of servers and thus causes division in the community. abusive scripts (read: _special) can be blocked without blocking almost every other, harmless, script.
obuhNot Quite Smart at NSJoin Date: 2003-03-31Member: 15072Members, Constellation
edited January 2005
I never ever defended them (leap-bite etc). But you know that mp_bs blocks lots more than that. As for the +3jump replacement there have been several suggestions to address it posted in the Ideas & Suggestions forum. No dev response as of yet. It's not in beta6. Looks like it's not an important issue for them.
<!--QuoteBegin-Guardian1+Jan 17 2005, 06:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Guardian1 @ Jan 17 2005, 06:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-obuh+Jan 17 2005, 03:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (obuh @ Jan 17 2005, 03:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> But leap-bites, fadeswipes, and other similar garbage hinder more than they help, tbh /: <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Then why defend such garbage or even use it? People currently argue that the 3jump is the only script worth arguing for, if that's the case, there should be a movement to get it added to the game without requiring a script, if it's a legitimate move and easy to perform.
This debate is losing more sense as time goes on. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> actually there are other scripts than 3jump that are useful. im beginning to agree with you that this debate is losing sense, but thats because its derailing into an educative thread on scripts. which is what we have been having for the last 3 months right here in general discussion.
now the question you might want to ask yourself: do you need education on this matter? if yes, dont hesitate to ask, but do hesitate posting arguments based on "what you've heard".
<!--QuoteBegin-obuh+Jan 17 2005, 04:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (obuh @ Jan 17 2005, 04:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Should the server operator choose what command you are allowed to bind to what key, and what command not to ? No. Or should they force me to use hud_fastswitch 0 because they think hud_fastswitch 1 gives too much of an advantage ? No. So they shouldn't decide if I want to bhop with mwheel or +3jump either.
Basically they tell me to **** off because I use an alternative to the mousewheel. I don't agree with that. I shouldn't be forced to change servers for that.
The server side customization you speak of removes client customization by arbitrarily deciding to block lots of aliases. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Honestly, if you made a stink about it and you were playing on my server, I'd tell you to **** off too. Unless you give me money, you'll be my **** while you're on MY server. I'm the king of the god damn country and you're a peasant. That's the way it works when you're a guest in someone's home. If you don't like it, get the **** out.
How about password servers? They're now denying you access to them based on the principle that you need to know a key sequence to get in!
I'm not sure how you can honestly say that you have a right to dictate how a server operator runs their server.
You still need to use your finger to move the mouse wheel to continue jumping. AND you can bind that within the game itself rather than having to alias a 3jump from a cfg file.
<!--QuoteBegin-TOmekki+Jan 17 2005, 04:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TOmekki @ Jan 17 2005, 04:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> now the question you might want to ask yourself: do you need education on this matter? if yes, dont hesitate to ask, but do hesitate posting arguments based on "what you've heard". <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Agreed.
I don't post my opinion on anything less than first hand information.
obuhNot Quite Smart at NSJoin Date: 2003-03-31Member: 15072Members, Constellation
edited January 2005
It's nice having tolerant people like you in this community. I'm told to **** off by a large part of the community. Thanks for providing this friendly ambience.
I'm not saying I want to dictate how peoplerun thier server, I just don't want to be dictated on how I use my controls. See ?
Guys, we should all use ball-mouses, because having the ball get stuck puts me at a disadvantage to optical mouse users, and not everyone can get optical mice. Flubbing the control's is part of the game, and missing that skulk or running off a cliff are things that everyone should go through if I have to.
<!--QuoteBegin-Guardian1+Jan 17 2005, 02:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Guardian1 @ Jan 17 2005, 02:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-themakefunofpplacct+Jan 17 2005, 03:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (themakefunofpplacct @ Jan 17 2005, 03:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So .. you can't leap/bite manually but using a script helps you do it better. Well then, good for you, you found a more comfortable way to play. It's no different than rebinding all your keyboard keys to your own preference. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm not sure where that's coming from. Am I the only person here who makes mistakes?
I flub keys occasionally. I AM NOT COMFORTABLE with scripting to make up for that. In MY OPINION, that is a cop-out and means that I'll have to work harder to do it manually. It's a true measurement of skill to do it that way and scripting skews that. I choose not to do it. I don't tell people that they need to stop and I don't say that it's immoral.
Script away. If folks want to script their leap-bites, fadeswipes, and whatever else requires manual dexterity then they should do so if it makes them feel better. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Guardian I think you misunderstood...
I'm not implying that leap/bite and blink/swipe scripts actually helps everyone play better. In fact, most people in this thread have already stated that those types of scripts do absolute ****, and I believe I've said that quite a few times in my previous posts too. Many people get by just fine without such scripts and even think they hinder their performance. What I'm trying to say is that since those scripts help you play better, there's nothing wrong with using them. If you're more confortable with them, then go ahead and use them. Seriously, it's like saying "I'm not confortable with using wasd because some old school doom players still use the arrow keys and they have a disadvantage" or something like that. Scripts are nothing more than binds, using them is no different than, say, binding slot3 to mouse5 and slot1 to mouse4 (<3 my mx510). It accomplishes the same effect, does it not? Helps you control your game better, but you're giving yourself an advantage.
if leap/bite scripts help you that much then jesus go ahead already <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> they're just binds
Not a single person, in the cal invite community, uses a SINGLE leap bite script, and maybe 2 use blink swipe scripts. Whereas EVERY SINGLE OTHER PLAYER LEAP BITES NORMALLY, LIKE EVERY OTHER PUBBER, JUST BETTER BECAUSE WE CAN AIM, BUNNYHOP, AND LEAP CORRECTLY.
Guardian... where do you pub, I want to watch you play, fade, skulk, shoot, etc.
If only Mp_BS 1 was actually fixed to what it was suppose to do these conversations wouldn't happen. The community wouldn't be split about scripts being the devil incarnated. And we would all be having a jolly good time.
Just to note. I never used a blink swipe script, so to the few who complain I use one I laugh in your face *Har har har har har*
I dont believe blink-swipe or leap-bite scripts are unfair, why?
If you are really good, such a script will hinder more than they help. If you are good, such a script will hinder more than they help. If you are mediocre, such a script will hinder more than they help. If you are bad, such a script might help you somewhat. If you are really new to the game, or have a handicap, these scripts might just be the thing for you (if we disregard the issue of learning how to play for new players).
See, I dont have a problem with a bad or a really bad player become something between bad and mediocre, that's fine with me, it might even increase the overall quality of the games they are in. If they want to improve beyond that however they need to stop using these scripts as they hinder alot more than they help.
[Note: when using words as "good", "mediocre" and "bad", I refer only to the persons ability to skulk and fade compared to higher-tier Natural Selection players and nothing else. Not the players inherent value as a human, the players intelligence or even capacity of actually getting better]
<!--QuoteBegin-themakefunofpplacct+Jan 17 2005, 06:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (themakefunofpplacct @ Jan 17 2005, 06:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> some old school doom players still use the arrow keys<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> this is, suprisingly enough, the reason ive been looking for a script to change weapons more quickly, or use attacks without manually changing weapons *very realistic for animalswith claws, i must say <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> *. ive spent so long with the arrow keys, that thats really the only config i can use in FPS's without starting from scratch with doom and relearning the controls with the WSAD format, something i just dont have the time in my life to do anymore
<!--QuoteBegin-tjosan+Jan 17 2005, 07:51 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (tjosan @ Jan 17 2005, 07:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The 3rd part is indeed a good article, but so is the 1st.
Still, I have to agree with Firewater, I mean... it's a fps game and either you put people in the spawn cue or you wait there yourself. Which is more fun? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If you're more on easy ownage it surly more fun to put people into the spawn queue. If you wish to improve yourself i can be more helpful getting put into the spawn queue. At least you tried to climb another peak (to quote sirlins article) and not just homing your maybe suboptimal tactics <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-the hole+Jan 17 2005, 06:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (the hole @ Jan 17 2005, 06:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ok, let me put it this way.
Not a single person, in the cal invite community, uses a SINGLE leap bite script, and maybe 2 use blink swipe scripts. Whereas EVERY SINGLE OTHER PLAYER LEAP BITES NORMALLY, LIKE EVERY OTHER PUBBER, JUST BETTER BECAUSE WE CAN AIM, BUNNYHOP, AND LEAP CORRECTLY.
Guardian... where do you pub, I want to watch you play, fade, skulk, shoot, etc. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You can add me to your friend list as Guardian[NOCLAN] and find me when I play then. I play on a bunch of different servers, which has the map/mode/ping that appeals to me at the time.
Also, in order to play in the CAL, are you required to post you cfg files?
No you're not but why would you be? Many of the cal invite players don't use scripts but we could if we wanted to so why would we have to show our cfgs?
<!--QuoteBegin-obuh+Jan 17 2005, 04:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (obuh @ Jan 17 2005, 04:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It's nice having tolerant people like you in this community. I'm told to **** off by a large part of the community. Thanks for providing this friendly ambience.
I'm not saying I want to dictate how peoplerun thier server, I just don't want to be dictated on how I use my controls. See ? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It was hypothetical. IF it was MY server, I would certainly tell you to **** off if you tried to dictate to me how I run MY server. I just don't have the patience to run a server, so we're both in luck and I don't have to be rude.
If you play on someone's server, you're subjugated to their rules. You have no say in the matter other than to not play. They aren't saying that you can't use your controls the way that you want. They're just saying that you can't use a script to configure them that way.
Alternately, I'd like to champion a Pure Server mode which prevents anyone with added scripts, sprites, models, skins, or sounds from playing. Vanilla NS so-to-speak.
That certainly makes MP_BS look tame. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I suppose I could change my stance on scripts to only include anything that replaces the need for manual dexterity.
obuhNot Quite Smart at NSJoin Date: 2003-03-31Member: 15072Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-Guardian1+Jan 18 2005, 03:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Guardian1 @ Jan 18 2005, 03:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It was hypothetical. IF it was MY server, I would certainly tell you to **** off if you tried to dictate to me how I run MY server. I just don't have the patience to run a server, so we're both in luck and I don't have to be rude.
If you play on someone's server, you're subjugated to their rules. You have no say in the matter other than to not play. They aren't saying that you can't use your controls the way that you want. They're just saying that you can't use a script to configure them that way.
Alternately, I'd like to champion a Pure Server mode which prevents anyone with added scripts, sprites, models, skins, or sounds from playing. Vanilla NS so-to-speak.
That certainly makes MP_BS look tame. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I suppose I could change my stance on scripts to only include anything that replaces the need for manual dexterity. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't go on the servers and tell the server admins to change the way they run their servers. I just find it annoying they have the possibility of blocking the way people play, because somehow the majority are uninformed about scripting, or they think that leap-bite, blink-swipe, [...] scripts are awesome and automatically turn you into a killing machine.
May I ask you a favor, <b>Guardian1</b> ? Can you try this script, record a demo of yourself bhopping with it, and then recording yourself doing it without the script. Can you tell what method is easier and how it affects your gameplay ?
<!--QuoteBegin-Necrosis+Jan 18 2005, 04:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Necrosis @ Jan 18 2005, 04:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If you hate abusive admins so much, buy your own server. Problem solved, less spam in the forums, one more server to play on. Grow up. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Hear hear! Lets let uninformed people make uninformed desicions, and ignore any problem! If things such as WWII made us learn anything, it's that if you ignore the problem it goes away. <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Caleb+Jan 18 2005, 12:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Caleb @ Jan 18 2005, 12:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> this is, suprisingly enough, the reason ive been looking for a script to change weapons more quickly, or use attacks without manually changing weapons <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I use numpad myself. Arrow keys don't have enough "other" keys nearby and WASD are diagonally offset.
I have a quick-leap (no bite, that would be stupid) script I use on servers where it's enabled. On BS servers, I suffer through the carpal-tunnel-inducing rapid weapon switching and play just as well as on other servers. (I use fast-switch now. I learned to leap/bite WITHOUT fast-switch and if you haven't tried that, let me tell you that hitting 6 buttons to do a single leap-bite will wear your fingers out after a while.)
I personally believe (and have posted numerous times) that you should be able to bind a key directly to leap/blink/charge instead of having to switch weapons and THEN leap/etc. I've publicly posted my scripts before and will gladly post them again when people want them. (Hooray for scripting forum!)
Player quality has declined somewhat, but the gulf has really be widened by a few people raising the UPPER end of the skill level. Being new is much harder now then it was back in the 1.x days.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I have a quick-leap (no bite, that would be stupid) script I use on servers where it's enabled. On BS servers, I suffer through the carpal-tunnel-inducing rapid weapon switching and play just as well as on other servers. (I use fast-switch now. I learned to leap/bite WITHOUT fast-switch and if you haven't tried that, let me tell you that hitting 6 buttons to do a single leap-bite will wear your fingers out after a while.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Eh, why not use lastinv? Imo binding lastinv to Q is much easier than using the number keys, even with fastswitch on.
Click(to leap), Press Q(switch to bite), click(to bite), Press Q(leap away). easy as sauce <_<
I do use a different crosshair sprite for leap so i don't get it confused though... btw, do you think that's "unfair" or w/e too, guardian?
Comments
I'm not sure where that's coming from. Am I the only person here who makes mistakes?
I flub keys occasionally. I AM NOT COMFORTABLE with scripting to make up for that. In MY OPINION, that is a cop-out and means that I'll have to work harder to do it manually. It's a true measurement of skill to do it that way and scripting skews that. I choose not to do it. I don't tell people that they need to stop and I don't say that it's immoral.
Script away. If folks want to script their leap-bites, fadeswipes, and whatever else requires manual dexterity then they should do so if it makes them feel better.
EDIT: I'll have to do it tommorow, like 11pm right now.
Shouldn't server operators have the ability to decide if they want the clients that connect to THEIR SERVER to run scripts?
If you don't like how the server operator runs their server, then you should tell them that. I'm sure they'll hit you up for money for bandwidth or hardware after that and then you can make your decision.
Don't you think that it's a little much telling server operators how they have to run their servers? You don't have to play there. And as you said, removal of customization possibilities is bad. That's just one that the server operators get. To remove it would be bad.
Basically they tell me to **** off because I use an alternative to the mousewheel. I don't agree with that. I shouldn't be forced to change servers for that.
The server side customization you speak of removes client customization by arbitrarily deciding to block lots of aliases.
Then why defend such garbage or even use it? People currently argue that the 3jump is the only script worth arguing for, if that's the case, there should be a movement to get it added to the game without requiring a script, if it's a legitimate move and easy to perform.
This debate is losing more sense as time goes on.
Shouldn't server operators have the ability to decide if they want the clients that connect to THEIR SERVER to run scripts?
If you don't like how the server operator runs their server, then you should tell them that. I'm sure they'll hit you up for money for bandwidth or hardware after that and then you can make your decision.
Don't you think that it's a little much telling server operators how they have to run their servers? You don't have to play there. And as you said, removal of customization possibilities is bad. That's just one that the server operators get. To remove it would be bad. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
we have been here. please stop now because this argument is fruitless. although i can give you my opinion: giving server admins the ability to control and block certain features of the game is pretty doubtful because it leads to 2 different kinds of servers and thus causes division in the community. abusive scripts (read: _special) can be blocked without blocking almost every other, harmless, script.
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=71961&hl=\%203jump&st=0' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....2;%203jump&st=0</a>
Then why defend such garbage or even use it? People currently argue that the 3jump is the only script worth arguing for, if that's the case, there should be a movement to get it added to the game without requiring a script, if it's a legitimate move and easy to perform.
This debate is losing more sense as time goes on. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
actually there are other scripts than 3jump that are useful. im beginning to agree with you that this debate is losing sense, but thats because its derailing into an educative thread on scripts. which is what we have been having for the last 3 months right here in general discussion.
now the question you might want to ask yourself: do you need education on this matter? if yes, dont hesitate to ask, but do hesitate posting arguments based on "what you've heard".
Basically they tell me to **** off because I use an alternative to the mousewheel. I don't agree with that. I shouldn't be forced to change servers for that.
The server side customization you speak of removes client customization by arbitrarily deciding to block lots of aliases. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Honestly, if you made a stink about it and you were playing on my server, I'd tell you to **** off too. Unless you give me money, you'll be my **** while you're on MY server. I'm the king of the god damn country and you're a peasant. That's the way it works when you're a guest in someone's home. If you don't like it, get the **** out.
How about password servers? They're now denying you access to them based on the principle that you need to know a key sequence to get in!
I'm not sure how you can honestly say that you have a right to dictate how a server operator runs their server.
You still need to use your finger to move the mouse wheel to continue jumping. AND you can bind that within the game itself rather than having to alias a 3jump from a cfg file.
Agreed.
I don't post my opinion on anything less than first hand information.
I'm not saying I want to dictate how peoplerun thier server, I just don't want to be dictated on how I use my controls. See ?
MP_BO 1 (block optical) ftw.
set to whatever the admin happens to get :/
edit: wrong word
I'm not sure where that's coming from. Am I the only person here who makes mistakes?
I flub keys occasionally. I AM NOT COMFORTABLE with scripting to make up for that. In MY OPINION, that is a cop-out and means that I'll have to work harder to do it manually. It's a true measurement of skill to do it that way and scripting skews that. I choose not to do it. I don't tell people that they need to stop and I don't say that it's immoral.
Script away. If folks want to script their leap-bites, fadeswipes, and whatever else requires manual dexterity then they should do so if it makes them feel better. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Guardian I think you misunderstood...
I'm not implying that leap/bite and blink/swipe scripts actually helps everyone play better. In fact, most people in this thread have already stated that those types of scripts do absolute ****, and I believe I've said that quite a few times in my previous posts too. Many people get by just fine without such scripts and even think they hinder their performance. What I'm trying to say is that since those scripts help you play better, there's nothing wrong with using them. If you're more confortable with them, then go ahead and use them. Seriously, it's like saying "I'm not confortable with using wasd because some old school doom players still use the arrow keys and they have a disadvantage" or something like that. Scripts are nothing more than binds, using them is no different than, say, binding slot3 to mouse5 and slot1 to mouse4 (<3 my mx510). It accomplishes the same effect, does it not? Helps you control your game better, but you're giving yourself an advantage.
if leap/bite scripts help you that much then jesus go ahead already <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
they're just binds
Not a single person, in the cal invite community, uses a SINGLE leap bite script, and maybe 2 use blink swipe scripts. Whereas EVERY SINGLE OTHER PLAYER LEAP BITES NORMALLY, LIKE EVERY OTHER PUBBER, JUST BETTER BECAUSE WE CAN AIM, BUNNYHOP, AND LEAP CORRECTLY.
Guardian... where do you pub, I want to watch you play, fade, skulk, shoot, etc.
Just to note. I never used a blink swipe script, so to the few who complain I use one I laugh in your face *Har har har har har*
If you are really good, such a script will hinder more than they help.
If you are good, such a script will hinder more than they help.
If you are mediocre, such a script will hinder more than they help.
If you are bad, such a script might help you somewhat.
If you are really new to the game, or have a handicap, these scripts might just be the thing for you (if we disregard the issue of learning how to play for new players).
See, I dont have a problem with a bad or a really bad player become something between bad and mediocre, that's fine with me, it might even increase the overall quality of the games they are in. If they want to improve beyond that however they need to stop using these scripts as they hinder alot more than they help.
[Note: when using words as "good", "mediocre" and "bad", I refer only to the persons ability to skulk and fade compared to higher-tier Natural Selection players and nothing else. Not the players inherent value as a human, the players intelligence or even capacity of actually getting better]
this is, suprisingly enough, the reason ive been looking for a script to change weapons more quickly, or use attacks without manually changing weapons *very realistic for animalswith claws, i must say <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> *. ive spent so long with the arrow keys, that thats really the only config i can use in FPS's without starting from scratch with doom and relearning the controls with the WSAD format, something i just dont have the time in my life to do anymore
Still, I have to agree with Firewater, I mean... it's a fps game and either you put people in the spawn cue or you wait there yourself. Which is more fun? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you're more on easy ownage it surly more fun to put people into the spawn queue. If you wish to improve yourself i can be more helpful getting put into the spawn queue. At least you tried to climb another peak (to quote sirlins article) and not just homing your maybe suboptimal tactics <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Not a single person, in the cal invite community, uses a SINGLE leap bite script, and maybe 2 use blink swipe scripts. Whereas EVERY SINGLE OTHER PLAYER LEAP BITES NORMALLY, LIKE EVERY OTHER PUBBER, JUST BETTER BECAUSE WE CAN AIM, BUNNYHOP, AND LEAP CORRECTLY.
Guardian... where do you pub, I want to watch you play, fade, skulk, shoot, etc. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can add me to your friend list as Guardian[NOCLAN] and find me when I play then. I play on a bunch of different servers, which has the map/mode/ping that appeals to me at the time.
Also, in order to play in the CAL, are you required to post you cfg files?
I'm not saying I want to dictate how peoplerun thier server, I just don't want to be dictated on how I use my controls. See ? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It was hypothetical. IF it was MY server, I would certainly tell you to **** off if you tried to dictate to me how I run MY server. I just don't have the patience to run a server, so we're both in luck and I don't have to be rude.
If you play on someone's server, you're subjugated to their rules. You have no say in the matter other than to not play. They aren't saying that you can't use your controls the way that you want. They're just saying that you can't use a script to configure them that way.
Alternately, I'd like to champion a Pure Server mode which prevents anyone with added scripts, sprites, models, skins, or sounds from playing. Vanilla NS so-to-speak.
That certainly makes MP_BS look tame. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I suppose I could change my stance on scripts to only include anything that replaces the need for manual dexterity.
If you play on someone's server, you're subjugated to their rules. You have no say in the matter other than to not play. They aren't saying that you can't use your controls the way that you want. They're just saying that you can't use a script to configure them that way.
Alternately, I'd like to champion a Pure Server mode which prevents anyone with added scripts, sprites, models, skins, or sounds from playing. Vanilla NS so-to-speak.
That certainly makes MP_BS look tame. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I suppose I could change my stance on scripts to only include anything that replaces the need for manual dexterity. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't go on the servers and tell the server admins to change the way they run their servers. I just find it annoying they have the possibility of blocking the way people play, because somehow the majority are uninformed about scripting, or they think that leap-bite, blink-swipe, [...] scripts are awesome and automatically turn you into a killing machine.
May I ask you a favor, <b>Guardian1</b> ? Can you try this script, record a demo of yourself bhopping with it, and then recording yourself doing it without the script. Can you tell what method is easier and how it affects your gameplay ?
Here is the script:
<!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->alias +hop "+jump;wait;-jump;wait;+jump;wait;-jump;wait;+jump"
alias -hop "-jump"<!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
Put that in your userconfig.cfg file in the ns folder (create the file if it doesn't exist), and bind a key to +hop.
PS: for your pure thing : mp_blockscripts 1 and mp_consistency 1
Hear hear! Lets let uninformed people make uninformed desicions, and ignore any problem! If things such as WWII made us learn anything, it's that if you ignore the problem it goes away. <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I use numpad myself. Arrow keys don't have enough "other" keys nearby and WASD are diagonally offset.
I have a quick-leap (no bite, that would be stupid) script I use on servers where it's enabled. On BS servers, I suffer through the carpal-tunnel-inducing rapid weapon switching and play just as well as on other servers. (I use fast-switch now. I learned to leap/bite WITHOUT fast-switch and if you haven't tried that, let me tell you that hitting 6 buttons to do a single leap-bite will wear your fingers out after a while.)
I personally believe (and have posted numerous times) that you should be able to bind a key directly to leap/blink/charge instead of having to switch weapons and THEN leap/etc. I've publicly posted my scripts before and will gladly post them again when people want them. (Hooray for scripting forum!)
Player quality has declined somewhat, but the gulf has really be widened by a few people raising the UPPER end of the skill level. Being new is much harder now then it was back in the 1.x days.
Eh, why not use lastinv? Imo binding lastinv to Q is much easier than using the number keys, even with fastswitch on.
Click(to leap), Press Q(switch to bite), click(to bite), Press Q(leap away). easy as sauce <_<
I do use a different crosshair sprite for leap so i don't get it confused though... btw, do you think that's "unfair" or w/e too, guardian?