People Who Use "religion = Evil" In A Blase Way
Wheeee
Join Date: 2003-02-18 Member: 13713Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Join Date: 2003-02-18 Member: 13713Members, Reinforced - Shadow
in Discussions
<div class="IPBDescription">security in ignorance</div> You've all heard what the extremists from various religions have to say about the tsunami. You've ridiculed them as callous, uncaring, ignorant, simple-minded fools.
Well, that's great. Good for you. Now you can rest secure in the fact that you'll always be superior to those religion-wielding maniacs, right?
Anyway, this is just an email that I got forwarded to by a friend at Duke. I would like for you guys to taste what mainstream Christianity is, instead of being bounded by media-washing.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Craig T. Kocher
Duke University Chapel
The first day after the Epiphany
1/06/04
Of God and Tsunamis
Like many of you, I have watched the news reports coming from Southeast
Asia with varying degrees of horror, awe, profound sadness, and moments of
inspiration as stories of heroic deeds trickle out of the chaos. Not since
a devastating earthquake rocked China in 1976, killing some 225,000
people, has a disaster of this magnitude struck the human family. The
suffering will not end soon. Some 150,000 people are dead, already 50
times more than those who died on 9/11, with the death toll still
mounting. Millions of other lives have been shattered, loved ones, homes,
jobs all gone. When all is said and done, it may well be the most
devastating natural disaster of our lifetimes.
In the face of such tragedy, many people have been asking important and
deep questions: Why would God allow this to happen? What is God’s reason
for this? Where was God in this? I read a blurb from an Indonesian
Muslim Imam who said: “Religion has no answer.” I believe he is right.
Any attempts to explain suffering, especially suffering at this
inconceivable magnitude will, in the end, prove unsatisfactory. While the
mind may search, even courageously, for answers and reasons, the heart
merely breaks and grieves in the face of it all. It is dangerous for
anyone, especially religious people, to say too much. Silence, sobbing,
sadness, grief, prayer ? all are probably the most authentic, the most
humanly appropriate responses. Human suffering, why such horrific
devastation would happen to so many innocent human beings, is an
unexplainable mystery. Reynolds Price calls this the “scalding encounter
with the greatest of mysteries ? unearned suffering, the apparent
punishment of the unquestionably guiltless.”
I would like to dispel some theological “myths,” those simplistic
answers that are too easily spouted out, claiming to corner the truth,
espouse explanation. I read a columnist on a Christian website yesterday
who said it was clear that God had a “reason” for inflicting this disaster
on Southeast Asia. He went on to say that “while we can never understand
God’s will, we can trust that everything happens for a specific purpose.”
I believe he is wrong, that Christianity teaches something very different.
On Palm Sunday in 1994, a tornado smashed into a church in Goshen,
Alabama during morning worship. Twenty people were killed, including the
pastor’s four- year-old daughter, Hannah. When pressed for an explanation
of his daughter’s death, Dale Clem responded to the media like this: “I
don’t believe that God caused that tornado to hit the church. God doesn’t
decide who will suffer and who will not. It is never God’s will for
children to suffer and be killed so young. A tornado caused my daughter’s
death, not God. It was a disaster. We have them all the time in our
world ? tornadoes, floods, hurricanes, droughts, and earthquakes. We live
in a natural world.”
Christianity claims that God does not stay aloof in the heavens,
distant from human life, throwing cars into one another on highways,
crashing planes into buildings, infecting some with cancer cells, or
unleashing the fury of the sea on thousands upon thousands of unaware
beach-goers. God’s will and purpose is to give life, flourishing loving
life, to all of his children. When William Sloane Coffin’s son, Alex,
lost control of his car and drown in Boston Harbor, Coffin said: “When the
dark waters closed over Alex’s life, God’s heart was the first heart to
break.” The Christian response to the mystery of suffering is this: God
in Jesus Christ suffers with us. God does not remain secure in the
confines of heaven, but comes to us, taking the human condition, and all
the beauty and tragedy that goes along with it, upon himself. On this the
12th and last day of the Christmas season, this is the great gift of
Christmas, the only gift that really matters. God has become one of us
and we are no longer alone. God is with us, in life, in death, in life
beyond death. Where was God on that last Sunday in December? God was
in the depths of the churning water, clutching his children as they drown.
Craig
Craig T. Kocher
Acting Dean of the Chapel
and Director of Religious Life<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Although I don't agree with this guy's theology, it touches upon several important points: the human mind, on its own, can pretty much never understand God's plans or will except on a very superficial level. Most Christians and Muslims are very reasonable, logical, compassionate people, like the average person.
So next time you like to paint religion with broad brushes based on fundamentalists, think twice and don't give in to the urge to be intellectually dishonest for the sake of maintaining your peace of mind.
Well, that's great. Good for you. Now you can rest secure in the fact that you'll always be superior to those religion-wielding maniacs, right?
Anyway, this is just an email that I got forwarded to by a friend at Duke. I would like for you guys to taste what mainstream Christianity is, instead of being bounded by media-washing.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Craig T. Kocher
Duke University Chapel
The first day after the Epiphany
1/06/04
Of God and Tsunamis
Like many of you, I have watched the news reports coming from Southeast
Asia with varying degrees of horror, awe, profound sadness, and moments of
inspiration as stories of heroic deeds trickle out of the chaos. Not since
a devastating earthquake rocked China in 1976, killing some 225,000
people, has a disaster of this magnitude struck the human family. The
suffering will not end soon. Some 150,000 people are dead, already 50
times more than those who died on 9/11, with the death toll still
mounting. Millions of other lives have been shattered, loved ones, homes,
jobs all gone. When all is said and done, it may well be the most
devastating natural disaster of our lifetimes.
In the face of such tragedy, many people have been asking important and
deep questions: Why would God allow this to happen? What is God’s reason
for this? Where was God in this? I read a blurb from an Indonesian
Muslim Imam who said: “Religion has no answer.” I believe he is right.
Any attempts to explain suffering, especially suffering at this
inconceivable magnitude will, in the end, prove unsatisfactory. While the
mind may search, even courageously, for answers and reasons, the heart
merely breaks and grieves in the face of it all. It is dangerous for
anyone, especially religious people, to say too much. Silence, sobbing,
sadness, grief, prayer ? all are probably the most authentic, the most
humanly appropriate responses. Human suffering, why such horrific
devastation would happen to so many innocent human beings, is an
unexplainable mystery. Reynolds Price calls this the “scalding encounter
with the greatest of mysteries ? unearned suffering, the apparent
punishment of the unquestionably guiltless.”
I would like to dispel some theological “myths,” those simplistic
answers that are too easily spouted out, claiming to corner the truth,
espouse explanation. I read a columnist on a Christian website yesterday
who said it was clear that God had a “reason” for inflicting this disaster
on Southeast Asia. He went on to say that “while we can never understand
God’s will, we can trust that everything happens for a specific purpose.”
I believe he is wrong, that Christianity teaches something very different.
On Palm Sunday in 1994, a tornado smashed into a church in Goshen,
Alabama during morning worship. Twenty people were killed, including the
pastor’s four- year-old daughter, Hannah. When pressed for an explanation
of his daughter’s death, Dale Clem responded to the media like this: “I
don’t believe that God caused that tornado to hit the church. God doesn’t
decide who will suffer and who will not. It is never God’s will for
children to suffer and be killed so young. A tornado caused my daughter’s
death, not God. It was a disaster. We have them all the time in our
world ? tornadoes, floods, hurricanes, droughts, and earthquakes. We live
in a natural world.”
Christianity claims that God does not stay aloof in the heavens,
distant from human life, throwing cars into one another on highways,
crashing planes into buildings, infecting some with cancer cells, or
unleashing the fury of the sea on thousands upon thousands of unaware
beach-goers. God’s will and purpose is to give life, flourishing loving
life, to all of his children. When William Sloane Coffin’s son, Alex,
lost control of his car and drown in Boston Harbor, Coffin said: “When the
dark waters closed over Alex’s life, God’s heart was the first heart to
break.” The Christian response to the mystery of suffering is this: God
in Jesus Christ suffers with us. God does not remain secure in the
confines of heaven, but comes to us, taking the human condition, and all
the beauty and tragedy that goes along with it, upon himself. On this the
12th and last day of the Christmas season, this is the great gift of
Christmas, the only gift that really matters. God has become one of us
and we are no longer alone. God is with us, in life, in death, in life
beyond death. Where was God on that last Sunday in December? God was
in the depths of the churning water, clutching his children as they drown.
Craig
Craig T. Kocher
Acting Dean of the Chapel
and Director of Religious Life<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Although I don't agree with this guy's theology, it touches upon several important points: the human mind, on its own, can pretty much never understand God's plans or will except on a very superficial level. Most Christians and Muslims are very reasonable, logical, compassionate people, like the average person.
So next time you like to paint religion with broad brushes based on fundamentalists, think twice and don't give in to the urge to be intellectually dishonest for the sake of maintaining your peace of mind.
Comments
And then there was Jesus.
The way Jesus taught and healed, and the way that God seems to do little announcing of natural disasters any more, leads me to think that God is about salvation, while Earth is about a taste of punishment. Or, quite possibly, Earth may be the punishment.
As a tangent to the "God's Sandbox" theory, I tend to think that God's in it for the fun. If he created something just so he could control its every move, that would be a boring... universal... existence, or whatever you wish to call it. It's like playing a game with a built-in invincibility cheat: it's more fun and satisfying to not use the cheat. I believe that God decided to basically turn us loose after he created us. Yes, I know that God's divine will is stronger, more complex, and far beyond my human mind, and most will say that He knows not of boredom or whatnot, but I am of the belief that God endowed us with a little of His divine spark, or we would not have religion or anything beyond primordial instinct. I seek this divinity: that is why I question and debate. It's the heart of my faith.
Summary: The tsunami is something that nature did. Miracle survival stories and the huge donations throughout the world are God's work.
well, generally as a Christian I would have to classify that as "bad" in the same way as lying and adultery is bad. That shouldn't make me a hateful person towards homosexuals though. We all commit crimes against God, and committing the most insignificant one puts you in the same boat as committing the worst one.
now i'm not a religious person, i'm what you call 'anti religious' but i can understand where religion comes from and i have nothing againts it, part of what i beleive involves allowing anyone to believe whatever the hell they want to. personally i believe we're a cosmic fluke and i find it marvelous to think such a thing.
but regarding the tsunami i'm at least glad that some people can realize that a natural disaster occurs on it's own volition and not by some act of god. i sometimes envy religious people because they can put everything down to "act of god, higher purpose, etc etc" but i just can't live my life like that, i have to see the tsunami as exactly what it is, a natural disaster, a tradgedy of epic preportions, inflicted upon completely innocent people.
ahh.. i suppose this discussion is more religious people vs really religious people, so i'll butt out, but i just needed to reply to wheee's homosexuality comment.
I think... 'extremists' or 'fanatics'; a bunch of people who've taken something and twisted it to the point they've earned their own classification seperate from others who follow the same teachings.
Don't worry; not everyone is so quick to lump people in a broad category together with idiots without a thought =3
The Bible explicitly condemns homosexuality. Does it also condemn pedophilia?
thank you for being this to my attension
I tend to use that analogy as well, although I prefer the term "antfarm". It also offers a convenient explanation for the abundance of miracles in the bible, and the lack of them for the last two thousand years: Like it is with everyone with an antfarm, the initial novelty of being able to tinker with the ants' lives wanes at some point; it suddenly becomes more interesting to observe what the ants get up to without outside influence.
now i'm not a religious person, i'm what you call 'anti religious' but i can understand where religion comes from and i have nothing againts it, part of what i beleive involves allowing anyone to believe whatever the hell they want to. personally i believe we're a cosmic fluke and i find it marvelous to think such a thing.
but regarding the tsunami i'm at least glad that some people can realize that a natural disaster occurs on it's own volition and not by some act of god. i sometimes envy religious people because they can put everything down to "act of god, higher purpose, etc etc" but i just can't live my life like that, i have to see the tsunami as exactly what it is, a natural disaster, a tradgedy of epic preportions, inflicted upon completely innocent people.
ahh.. i suppose this discussion is more religious people vs really religious people, so i'll butt out, but i just needed to reply to wheee's homosexuality comment. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
haha, neonspyder. that is really funny. You can read into my words all you like. I never said God hates, or doesn't love, homosexuals. I only said that he doesn't like homosexuality. After all, while we were all still sinners, God sent his son to die for us. Notice how I didn't say "ZOMG YOU GO TO HELL FOR BEING ****" - no, I just classified it at something bad. If you want to talk theology, instead of applying your preconceived notions of Christianity to me, I'll be happy to talk to you in PMs. You seemed to want to read my statement to confirm your prejudice that Christians are hateful people who are intolerant of imperfect people. That is absolutely not the case.
also, i dont consider most christians intolerant or hateful, more of them are nice people, just like every other group of people on earth there are bad apples. but even the sane ones, like yourself, consider things like homosexuaility for example, againts god and evil, and inherently wrong. it doesn't matter how you act towards that person because it boils down to what you thinkg about them.
So 'God' could theoretically be a scientist?
First, homosexuality.
It seems that the debate in this thread is looking for the "sin" in that lifestyle. A comparison was made to being handicaped, with the logical concluson that people don't choose to be handicaped - neither do they choose to be homosexual - they just are, so you cant call it sin. Further more, if "god" created these people both handicaped and homosexual, then shouldn't god be accepting of both?
I pose to you that you are asking the wrong question and looking at the issue incorrectly. Bibically speaking, God created Man (and Woman of course) in his own image. Then man fell into sin. God chooses to redeem man - at first through the sacrificial system, then through Jesus.
Now this is why it is important. I want you all to see a pattern here. Just as the sacrificial system is a picture of Jesus and his death on the cross - so in the same way is marriage a picture of Gods relationship to his people (specifically his church).
To prove that point, I turn to the book of Hosea. In that book, God called for his prophet Hosea to marry a prostitute. That marriage was to symbolize the relationship between God (Hosea) and Israel (the prostute). This was during a paticularily dark time in Israels history when they had turned away from God.
As you can well imagine - applying homosexuality to this picture perverts it in such a way that the picture is distorted and God looses the glory in marriage. That in it self is enough to classify homosexuality as a sin against God.
Ok, topic number two - the tsunami.
When man fell into sin, God cursed the ground. He said that our labor would not be fruitful without much toil. Just as sin is a part of every human in our nature, so is sin, death, and destruction a part of nature itself.
That begs the question though "could god have stopped it?" "should god have stopped it?" "what kind of a loving god lets a tragedy like this happen?"
As with homosexuality, I think we are asking the wrong questions. God doesn't owe us anything - least of all an explanation for his actions or inactions. Rather we owe God, and as a result of being in that postion, it is our duty to ask "how can I give glory to God through this tragedy?"
So there you have it. To quote the first commandment "thou shalt have no other gods before me" - that includes ourselves and our pre-conceived ideas about who God is. Once we get those out of the way and let God show us who he is, we can then have a proper perspective on the world around us.
Why would God not owe us anything? As our creator, God would have a responsiblity to take care of what he has created, to do everything in his power to see that we live happy and productive lives, or at least see to it that we get into a good place in the afterlife. I always draw a comparison between God and Man and a parent and child, and at this point God's relationship with us makes no sense at this point. Let's say you're a parent, you live on afarm or something around dangerous farming machinery. You take your kid aside one day and say "Hey, don't do anything stupid, you'll get hurt." and let him go. Later that day you see your kid playing around a moving thresher. You do nothing to help your child by grabbing him away or turning off said thresher, and eventually he trips and falls and gets his hands caught in the machinery. As he comes to you bleeding and screaming, you do nothing to help your child by stopping the bleeding or calling an ambulance, and allow your kid to live his remaining moments in agony as he bleeds to death, offering the rationale that "I told him not to do anything stupid, it's his fault." Would you be consiered a "loving parent" at that point? Heck no, you'd probly get put away for a long time and rightfully so, yet those who beleive in him consider a god who does this to us on an eternal scale to be the ultimate loving being. I don't think any God that would sentence a man to an eternity of pain and suffering simply for denying his existence that God never bothered to prove to him anyways to be loving. Nevermind that he allows natural disasters, wra, etc to send people to said hell on a wholesale basis.
God's actually kindof a jerk.
I'm not saying that god is saying that it's okay to BE one, i'm just saying shouldn't christians be at the very least tolerant of them? because really, what's happening now with the issue of marriage is that they are going to be relegated to the status of second-class citizens if they are denied the privilege of a civil union. This relates to Pepe Muffassa's point of marriage in that it seems most lesbian/*** seeking married status aren't trying to get married in churches by a priest, but simply the rights accorded to a married couple by the government. But this really hinges on if you believe in the seperation of a "government" marriage and a "church" marriage.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So next time you like to paint religion with broad brushes based on fundamentalists, think twice and don't give in to the urge to be intellectually dishonest for the sake of maintaining your peace of mind.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think the problem with this is that the only religous people that get constant airtime by the media are the fundamentalists who get such coverage precisely because they have radical right (or left) wing views. So i guess to some people it would appear that this is the mouthpiece for most of whatever religion each fundamentalist belongs to, even if it isn't true. But, all the blame does not rest on their shoulders for thinking that way. What has your (assuming that you the kind of christian who isn't holding one of those "god hates queers" signs) kind of christianity said or done recently to be in the news? I honestly can't name anything. Yet, you are still indignant when people stereotype religions?
Anyway, tsunamis and god.
I was taught that God is omniscient, so really, he controls everything that ever happened and ever will happen, and knows all. So no matter what, everything that happens is because of him, so does the sandbox theory hold water? Because if he really is all that, is it even possible for Him to step back and simply let things run their course? Well, according to me He can't, can't He? But at the same time, he also COULD, since he can do anything.
k my head hurts. cu
re: AllUrHiveRblong2us: He never claimed to be nice. =)
Depends who you listen to, in the old testament he was pretty much painted as unapologetically nasty, but once we get to the new testament he tries this massive PR campaign to make himself seem like a nice guy, what with Jesus and all. And I, for one, don't buy it. God is a jerk and I don't like jerk gods.
Uh... with that kinda attitude it's no wonder that there's still predjudice... because you're basicly saying "Yeah, Homosexuals are a sin against god and that god doesn't like them. But... that's just how god sees it, you know?".
This thread sort've backfired... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
Let's look at it another way. Say God is the source of all life and existence. If, then, we decide to cut ourselves off from Him and say "I don't need you," how can you expect to escape death? Death is the cessation of life.
Now I know what you guys are looking for - a blank check saying "God loves you, keep on doing the things you do and you're A-OK" that lets you comfortably continue your life. You're free to choose that, and I won't do anything to stop you. I'm not an abortion clinic bomber or anything. I just wanted to ask you guys to see a little more clearly and cut through the misconceptions. Whether you're interested or not is really not up to me though.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I imagine this presents somewhat of a dilemma for you Wheeee. You seem like a reasonable person and I can tell you're not wanting to offend anybody with your responses by pointing out that other things are "sins" as well.
The bottom line though is that there is really no rational reason for homosexuality to be considered a sin, anymore so than heterosexuality. So basically you're left holding the bag here because all that is left to say is "because God said so", which is rather unsatisfying for us non-Christians.
I don't believe that my 1 year 10 month old is a "bad person". Do you honestly believe that children - with very little understanding of the world around them, and limited ability to reason - are "bad people"?
God created living breathing beings, not pilars of sand. And frankly, even if he doesn't have an obligation to us, why does that mean we have an obligation to him? Because he created us? Thats ****. I never asked to be created and then get thrown onto this horrible little planet full of psychos, that was all God's doing. He wanted it, not I.
God is an **** because he created us to suffer and expects us to thank him for it. He created Adam and Eve in a paradise, then he told them not to eat from the tree of knowledge knowing full well that they would. Why would he even put such a tree there if he didn't want them to eat from it? Then he uses that as an excuse to kick them out into a world designed to cause suffering. Later he spends a good deal of his time telling us how not to behave and then killing those who disobey. These are not the acts of a loving being.
I don't care what you say, I think God does owe me something: an appology.
God's actually kindof a jerk. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why would God not owe us anything?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What? You think God owes you? If he exists, what do you own that he did not create? He gave you life, he built your universe and he claims to be the ultimate source of everything good in life. So hes given you all that - what have you given him? Nothing, zero, 0, zip. Yet somehow God owes you - the irony is staggering.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As our creator, God would have a responsiblity to take care of what he has created, to do everything in his power to see that we live happy and productive lives, or at least see to it that we get into a good place in the afterlife.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Couldnt agree more, and he's been working for all three for our entire history. There is not a Christian today who wouldnt agree with this assesment.
Now to deal with that analogy, which I consider fundamentally flawed.
The parent may warn the child, but he cannot simply stand guard over the child every day or else the child will never grow up. He understands the necessity of the child having the ability to make his own decisions, so he is devastated when the child disobeys him and puts his hand in the thresher. But he cant just leave the child bleeding and dying, he loves him to much, so he rushes them to hospital, then gets the doctors to hack his own hands off and attach them to the child. However, the doctor will only reattach the hand to the child if the child wants it. In one instance, the child accepts, and while the transplant process is long and painful, eventually he ends up perfectly whole again. In another instance, the child refuses the transplant, reckons his hands actually arent that bad after all, reckons he actually likes his hands, doesnt believe his dad is actually offering the transplant, denies the transplant would help him anyway if it exists, points out that other children who've had the transplant arent exactly perfect either, and frankly thinks all this pain is probably Dad's fault anyway, (edit for skulkbait <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->)and its definately Dad's fault that he was born, which happened without his consultation, so that makes Dad a jerk. The fact that Dad warned him against it, actually gave him perfect hands to start off with, had his own hands chopped off without anesthetics (yarrghhh spelling), feels his pain every step of the way not just in the parental sense but in the "been there done that" sense, sends his other children with transplants to try and talk him into it but he still wont accept it is brushed off.
The only area this analogy falls down is that God treated humans like adults in that he let them make their own decisions.
God created living breathing beings, not pilars of sand. And frankly, even if he doesn't have an obligation to us, why does that mean we have an obligation to him? Because he created us? Thats ****. I never asked to be created and then get thrown onto this horrible little planet full of psychos, that was all God's doing. He wanted it, not I.
God is an **** because he created us to suffer and expects us to thank him for it. He created Adam and Eve in a paradise, then he told them not to eat from the tree of knowledge knowing full well that they would. Why would he even put such a tree there if he didn't want them to eat from it? Then he uses that as an excuse to kick them out into a world designed to cause suffering. Later he spends a good deal of his time telling us how not to behave and then killing those who disobey. These are not the acts of a loving being.
I don't care what you say, I think God does owe me something: an appology. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sure you'll get one <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> haha just kidding.
I'm not expecting one. God is way to much of a jerk to ever admit he might have been wrong about something. How can you serve such a *******?
sorry, just messing with you guys now.
This is an example of laughable logic.
Homosexuality is a behavior. According to what these Christians are trying to tell you, God hates Homosexuality but loves the Homosexual. Do you get what I am saying here?
Here's a more simpler analogy, just in case your bigotry against a perfectly resonable religion keeps you from understanding:
Bob lies to Jon. Bob is therefore a liar. Does Jon hate Bob's lie, or does he hate Bob? Unless he has the emotional capacity of a 7 year old, he'll probably hate Bob's lie, Bob's behavior, but he won't hate Bob.
Simple logic here guys, stop working so hard to hate on Christianity.
Am I Christian? Nope. It's my background, but I haven't been one for 5 years now.
Only he and his slaves think he defines right. Everyone else realises that right and wrong are subjective terms.