<!--QuoteBegin-SkulkBait+Jan 19 2005, 12:38 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SkulkBait @ Jan 19 2005, 12:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> That doesn't make any sense. If I'm serving god no matter what I do, then what is the importance of my choice between God and sin? If there isn't any importnace, then why did god give me freewill? If he didn't give me freewill, then I was precondemned to hell, and if that is the case then he truely isn't the all-loving god he portrays himself as.
Besides which, I would still never willingly serve him, even if there were no escape from doing his bidding. Hell, that just goes further to my point that god is an ****. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, good, bad, he's the guy with the gun <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Anyway, it's not that he forces you to do what he wants. It's more like...you choose not to do what he wants you to do, but that ends up serving his purposes anyway. And being all-loving doesn't mean he makes you feel good either. Being loving means wanting the best for you. And the best for you, in every case, is to want to serve him. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Wheeee+Jan 19 2005, 12:56 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wheeee @ Jan 19 2005, 12:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-SkulkBait+Jan 19 2005, 12:38 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SkulkBait @ Jan 19 2005, 12:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> That doesn't make any sense. If I'm serving god no matter what I do, then what is the importance of my choice between God and sin? If there isn't any importnace, then why did god give me freewill? If he didn't give me freewill, then I was precondemned to hell, and if that is the case then he truely isn't the all-loving god he portrays himself as.
Besides which, I would still never willingly serve him, even if there were no escape from doing his bidding. Hell, that just goes further to my point that god is an ****. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, good, bad, he's the guy with the gun <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oddly enough, the Sci-Fi channel just finished showing Army of Darkness... really, like 30 seconds ago.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Anyway, it's not that he forces you to do what he wants. It's more like...you choose not to do what he wants you to do, but that ends up serving his purposes anyway. And being all-loving doesn't mean he makes you feel good either. Being loving means wanting the best for you. And the best for you, in every case, is to want to serve him. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree. What do I get from serving him? I get to be an arogant **** on earth like most of his other followers? Well, I suppose its the next life thats supposed to be the reward, so what do I get from that? I get to serve God, a being who created man for the purpose of suffering (aparently) and wants nothing more than for his creations to do his bidding. **** that. I don't care if it is futile, I will do all I can to reject god in this life and the next, because he isn't worth following.
But you still haven't answered the question, how am I serving his purposes by rejecting him? Is it because God knew what would become of me when he created me? Is it because he predestined me himself? Also, if it is true that I serve God's purpose either way, then why does it matter if I choose to serve him or not? He still gets what he wants out of the deal.
Hail to the King baby! <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Pepe Muffassa+Jan 18 2005, 07:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Pepe Muffassa @ Jan 18 2005, 07:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> [...]Concerning the literal wording of the Bible - yes, it was written by men (using mens hands) - but moreso it was inspired by God. "every word is breathed by the mouth of God" - and as such it is to be read with the understanding that God is consistent and true and would not mis-speak.[...] <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I do not discount the possibility that the original bible may, word for word, pound for pound, have been the word and thought and meaning of God himself. Heck, he may have spoken directly to the writers like you and I speak now, telling them letter for letter what to write.
<i>However,</i> the original bible is now irrevocably and completely lost, and it is impossible to say how much, if any, resemblance the modern bible has to the original piece. For all we might know, the original bible was a cookbook. I say that if we take everything the bible says with a pinch (give or take) of salt, we're all better off.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->[...]Your reference to "moderate christians" - I believe that they are in error. After all, they are putting the wisdom of the world over the wisdom of God in an effort to become "moderate". As far as I am concerned, I trust the word of God a heck of a lot more than the knowledge of some puny humans.[...]<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Forgive me very, VERY much if I'm wrong (that's the christian thing to do, at least), but the opposite of a moderate is an extremist. Those are always bad news.
The world is a changing place. Religion, however, can often seem static and unchanging. In order to not become irrelevant and obscure, religion needs to change with the times. <u>Moderation</u> is the key to this process.
I disagree completely. Changing times have done nothing to invalidate the core Christian concept: Love God, and love other people.
Also, your argument about the validity of the Bible shows a lack of understanding of archaeological evidence. Thousands of manuscripts or portions of manuscripts or books of the Bible have been found, and they're so alike as veritably been one and the same. These people treated it as the most valuable knowledge they ever had, and the transmission of it through thousands of copies that were all hand-scribed shows that. It's literally impossible for one person to completely ruin the text; you would have to imagine a conspiracy on the level of a whole country. That just doesn't happen. Especially since there was a very strong oral tradition in those times, and many people would be ready to correct someone who was reciting a passage on the slightest error.
Comments
Besides which, I would still never willingly serve him, even if there were no escape from doing his bidding. Hell, that just goes further to my point that god is an ****. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, good, bad, he's the guy with the gun <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Anyway, it's not that he forces you to do what he wants. It's more like...you choose not to do what he wants you to do, but that ends up serving his purposes anyway. And being all-loving doesn't mean he makes you feel good either. Being loving means wanting the best for you. And the best for you, in every case, is to want to serve him. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Besides which, I would still never willingly serve him, even if there were no escape from doing his bidding. Hell, that just goes further to my point that god is an ****. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, good, bad, he's the guy with the gun <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oddly enough, the Sci-Fi channel just finished showing Army of Darkness... really, like 30 seconds ago.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Anyway, it's not that he forces you to do what he wants. It's more like...you choose not to do what he wants you to do, but that ends up serving his purposes anyway. And being all-loving doesn't mean he makes you feel good either. Being loving means wanting the best for you. And the best for you, in every case, is to want to serve him. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree. What do I get from serving him? I get to be an arogant **** on earth like most of his other followers? Well, I suppose its the next life thats supposed to be the reward, so what do I get from that? I get to serve God, a being who created man for the purpose of suffering (aparently) and wants nothing more than for his creations to do his bidding. **** that. I don't care if it is futile, I will do all I can to reject god in this life and the next, because he isn't worth following.
But you still haven't answered the question, how am I serving his purposes by rejecting him? Is it because God knew what would become of me when he created me? Is it because he predestined me himself? Also, if it is true that I serve God's purpose either way, then why does it matter if I choose to serve him or not? He still gets what he wants out of the deal.
And army of darkness is the best movie ever.
I do not discount the possibility that the original bible may, word for word, pound for pound, have been the word and thought and meaning of God himself. Heck, he may have spoken directly to the writers like you and I speak now, telling them letter for letter what to write.
<i>However,</i> the original bible is now irrevocably and completely lost, and it is impossible to say how much, if any, resemblance the modern bible has to the original piece. For all we might know, the original bible was a cookbook.
I say that if we take everything the bible says with a pinch (give or take) of salt, we're all better off.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->[...]Your reference to "moderate christians" - I believe that they are in error. After all, they are putting the wisdom of the world over the wisdom of God in an effort to become "moderate". As far as I am concerned, I trust the word of God a heck of a lot more than the knowledge of some puny humans.[...]<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Forgive me very, VERY much if I'm wrong (that's the christian thing to do, at least), but the opposite of a moderate is an extremist. Those are always bad news.
The world is a changing place. Religion, however, can often seem static and unchanging. In order to not become irrelevant and obscure, religion needs to change with the times. <u>Moderation</u> is the key to this process.
Also, your argument about the validity of the Bible shows a lack of understanding of archaeological evidence. Thousands of manuscripts or portions of manuscripts or books of the Bible have been found, and they're so alike as veritably been one and the same. These people treated it as the most valuable knowledge they ever had, and the transmission of it through thousands of copies that were all hand-scribed shows that. It's literally impossible for one person to completely ruin the text; you would have to imagine a conspiracy on the level of a whole country. That just doesn't happen. Especially since there was a very strong oral tradition in those times, and many people would be ready to correct someone who was reciting a passage on the slightest error.