Without dragging this issue out too much longer than it already should have been, it's not the fact that they are human and make mistakes, Firewater. Everyone makes mistakes, that's a given. But it took <b>five</b> admins/contributors the better part of 45 minutes or so to come to the conclusion that I was hacking. There were more instances than you could possibly imagine that proved I wasn't using an aimbot or wallhack.
They had one of the members pancake using a lerk in front of me to check if I was aimbotting. I failed miserably to even land a few shots on him. On more than one occasion did one of them comment on the fact that my bullets were not landing where my crosshair was aimed, even though he had a very high ping and the server obviously can't handle that many people and still run smoothly.
Here's a small quote from the in game NSA chat that was taken from a demo of one of the spectators. I had gone afk for at most 20 seconds to answer a pm on irc, and they come up with all this crap. <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->(NSAChat) [#Steam OP] FuhrerDarqueSyde : configuring h4x (NSAChat) `qq #findscrimns : hes not a hacker (NSAChat) [NSA]DeathKnight : (NSAChat) [NSA]DeathKnight : qq he is configuring a hack (NSAChat) [NSA]DeathKnight : yeah (NSAChat) [NSA]DeathKnight : he randomly slashed the knife (NSAChat) [NSA]DeathKnight : it usually means setting vectors (NSAChat) `qq #findscrimns : i do that too sometimes (NSAChat) `qq #findscrimns : when i switch a config (NSAChat) [NSA]DeathKnight : while standing in a corner (NSAChat) `qq #findscrimns : or come back from console (NSAChat) [NSA]DeathKnight : true (NSAChat) `qq #findscrimns : he could be recording his own demo (NSAChat) [NSA]DeathKnight : I have also seen people use a hack and do that (NSAChat) [#Steam OP] FuhrerDarqueSyde : i used to hack (NSAChat) `qq #findscrimns : i think he is harmondo (NSAChat) [NSA]DeathKnight : I used to hack and change settings like that<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ... Now honestly guys, when you see a guy who has a fairly decent score go afk, do you immediately think he is equiping his aimbot? No, you do not. No halfway sane person would. It seems like they have more of an agenda than an actual attempt to figure out if I was hacking or not. They <i>wanted</i> to believe I was hacking. As far as I can tell, `qq is the only one out of the bunch who has a shred of common sense.
Now like I said before, I appreciate the fact that they did unban me shortly there after and admit their mistake. But wow... <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->(TEAM) [NSA]DeathKnight: esp, wallhack, aimbot, aimthrough, full lambert, auto bunny hop, we have an ns_hook user <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> He's got me all figured out.
Church: that sounds an awful lot like a certain government we're all familiar with <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If you claim that this thread has nothing to do with a personal vendetta against lunixmonster then I'll take your word for it firewater, don't prove me wrong. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> But really now, who doesn't have a personal vendetta against linuxmonster?
<!--QuoteBegin-Harmondo+Feb 21 2005, 10:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Harmondo @ Feb 21 2005, 10:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Without dragging this issue out too much longer than it already should have been, it's not the fact that they are human and make mistakes, Firewater. Everyone makes mistakes, that's a given. But it took <b>five</b> admins/contributors the better part of 45 minutes or so to come to the conclusion that I was hacking. There were more instances than you could possibly imagine that proved I wasn't using an aimbot or wallhack.
They had one of the members pancake using a lerk in front of me to check if I was aimbotting. I failed miserably to even land a few shots on him. On more than one occasion did one of them comment on the fact that my bullets were not landing where my crosshair was aimed, even though he had a very high ping and the server obviously can't handle that many people and still run smoothly.
Here's a small quote from the in game NSA chat that was taken from a demo of one of the spectators. I had gone afk for at most 20 seconds to answer a pm on irc, and they come up with all this crap. <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->(NSAChat) [#Steam OP] FuhrerDarqueSyde : configuring h4x (NSAChat) `qq #findscrimns : hes not a hacker (NSAChat) [NSA]DeathKnight : (NSAChat) [NSA]DeathKnight : qq he is configuring a hack (NSAChat) [NSA]DeathKnight : yeah (NSAChat) [NSA]DeathKnight : he randomly slashed the knife (NSAChat) [NSA]DeathKnight : it usually means setting vectors (NSAChat) `qq #findscrimns : i do that too sometimes (NSAChat) `qq #findscrimns : when i switch a config (NSAChat) [NSA]DeathKnight : while standing in a corner (NSAChat) `qq #findscrimns : or come back from console (NSAChat) [NSA]DeathKnight : true (NSAChat) `qq #findscrimns : he could be recording his own demo (NSAChat) [NSA]DeathKnight : I have also seen people use a hack and do that (NSAChat) [#Steam OP] FuhrerDarqueSyde : i used to hack (NSAChat) `qq #findscrimns : i think he is harmondo (NSAChat) [NSA]DeathKnight : I used to hack and change settings like that<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ... Now honestly guys, when you see a guy who has a fairly decent score go afk, do you immediately think he is equiping his aimbot? No, you do not. No halfway sane person would. It seems like they have more of an agenda than an actual attempt to figure out if I was hacking or not. They <i>wanted</i> to believe I was hacking. As far as I can tell, `qq is the only one out of the bunch who has a shred of common sense.
Now like I said before, I appreciate the fact that they did unban me shortly there after and admit their mistake. But wow... <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->(TEAM) [NSA]DeathKnight: esp, wallhack, aimbot, aimthrough, full lambert, auto bunny hop, we have an ns_hook user <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> He's got me all figured out.
Church: that sounds an awful lot like a certain government we're all familiar with <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Harmondo.... you are correct... However.....once again..
How many other servers admit they are wrong and unban.. how many other servers will take the time to review demos in an unban request... so that in the end the right decision is made... youve gotta give them that
I believe it happened because you were fairly new to the server.... Regulars (Aes, Firewater, QQ, Turin, Duogod, Scout, ect) are all very extremely good, and non regs and nubs always scream for admins and that those guys are hacking, but everyone (regs) know they dont....
Harmondo, you said yourself people make mistakes, and in order to keep the server hack free, some mistakes will arise, however on the NSA server even less so since they must always be supported by demo's, and the banned can always file a ban appeal and they will ALWAYS go back and review logs/demos/ect in this case..
WHat i do know Harmondo is that it will most likely never happen again, as they know you now, and will defend you as a clan player and such..... Cept Fury Law :-( stupid stupid Fury
And if they dont... i will..... long as u respond to my orders when i comm.. else i cut u off from medpacks and proceed to jeer at you over voicecomm for the rest of the round, to the laughter of the other marines....
Anyways, Harmondo, mistakes do happen, but they did admit they were wrong, and i hope to see u pwnin it up on the NSA server sometime
It's not my intention to start a flame war here, so I'll merely lie down the facts from MY (as an admin on LunixMonster) viewpoint, as I've noticed some untruths happening regarding the server. If you wish to further discuss this, my IRC is open, or you can contact me via forum PM/e-mail.
<!--QuoteBegin-Church+Feb 12 2005, 11:49 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Church @ Feb 12 2005, 11:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I was banned from the Lunixmonster server for smurfing. Now arning whatsoever, and they also banned me from irc and forum when I tried to ask them what was going on (politely of course)." <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, this isn't the primary reason, but actually a secondary reason. Our ban logs have the reason: Disrespect, spawncamping, smurfing. Further inquiry revealed that you had been disrespectful when asked not to smurf. I'm not sure where the spawncamping comes from, so I won't say anything about that. You probably caught LB on a bad day.
<!--QuoteBegin-Church+Feb 12 2005, 11:49 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Church @ Feb 12 2005, 11:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> People should be warned that the owner of LM is not someone you can reason with. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not totally true, though at times it may appear that way. He has apologized to blatant mishaps in the past, this was not one of them. Though, it may have helped if you had created a PR thread in our forums. Usually people have a high success rate of receiving a pardon when doing so.
<!--QuoteBegin-milosis+Feb 12 2005, 01:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (milosis @ Feb 12 2005, 01:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->10 yr old admins who throw fits with someone that is playing better that them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know milosis said this. I'm sorry, but that's completely untrue (for the most part), we have no admins who are 10 years old, nor do we often "throw fits" over someone with a higher skill level. Though it may seem like that, at times (this is probably the reason why people feel that LM is so anti-competitive play, because we ban all the totally awesomest players). Note that the most common reason that we do have most of the more outspoken competitive players banned is a result of them treading the lines and tiptoeing along the rules (most commonly spawncamping and the whole "llama"/respect other players thing. Actually, it's almost entirely the "llama"/respect thing. Most of the banned competitive players, not all, but most had often "irked" the community, including the regulars). LM has never banned for skill (Though I'm almost positive at least one of you will argue that statement, which I'd be happy to debate with, in IRC).
<!--QuoteBegin-FireWater+Feb 13 2005, 03:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (FireWater @ Feb 13 2005, 03:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Please note that you were banned because of being suspected of cheating, NOT because of competitive status.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
FireWater : Untrue, sadly. Believe it or not, but hacking is actually one of the least used reasons we have to ban someone. Out of 491 bans, only 49 are left. I'll leave that up to interpretation.
Back to Church... <!--QuoteBegin-Church+Feb 14 2005, 04:36 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Church @ Feb 14 2005, 04:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well, rather they believed he was hacking, and since they're the admins, they don't have to prove it to anyone else.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, believe it or not, again, we did not suspect you of hacking. And, to the contrary, we actually verify that said players are cheating, as they are meticulously watched. Believe it or not, but this process of having mutliple admins verify a hacker has saved many innocents from the ban hammer (Though at this point, I think I'm probably talking to a wall, as your viewpoints seem to be set in stone).
<!--QuoteBegin-Church+Feb 22 2005, 04:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Church @ Feb 22 2005, 04:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Just don't go there. I don't anymore. They ban people rnadomly. Players don't have to put upw ith **** treatment.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Can you prove that we have banned people "randomly"? Every. Single. Ban. Is given a direct and acceptable reason. We (or at least, I) don't ban people just because I don't like them. Also, I don't think we give our playerbase "****" treatment. When nubs do wander on our server, often times, they are directed as to how to play the game, useful tips, etc. (Or at least, I noticed this while I'm on the server). But alas, I am but a single admin among a team, I cannot speak for everyone, but I do hope in the future, you will at least not direct others to NOT play on our server. I don't mind if you keep a grudge against us, I don't mind if you voice your opinion on us, but to create a negative first impression on us with people who have never been to a server is vastly unjust and unfair.
I got banned from lm a while back for using my regular name, so if i do play there, I have to smurf.
But on harmondo's point, harm i got on vent with you like the day after that, i was `qq and you said it yourself, you said that there was that one time on the lava cat walk where you had no possible way of knowing a guy was there but you knew he was there by instinct. I think that happens to us all, we do something amazing and cant explain how it happend. That was the main reason that they thought you were hacking, but I thought by pancaking it would prove that you werent hacking, yet they didnt seem to believe it. Personally i have had many occasions where i have felt like if i had just been killed like i had killed that alien, that i would totally be thinking that they were hacking, unexplainable things happen, but it doesnt mean they are hacking.
I got banned for trying to kill TheAdj with a mine. On Origin in Refinery Hive next to the RT. I killed two skulks and all the people are like "SPAWNCAMPING !!@!@!@!@!@!" as if its the most evil thing next to cheats. On the server mentioned above, I'll stick with NSA until that server dies. Which it probably never will.
I dunno why people get such bugs up their colons about admins banning people they just... don't like. That seems like the best way to do it, to me. If I'm a public server admin, I'm trying to create a server I like to play on. That means absence of people I don't like. So as long as people don't invent weird rules under which to ban, and just outright say "I'm banning you because I don't like you," I don't get what the problem is.
This is all in regards to the LM admin's post, if you're curious. And griefing/attitude is generally a euphemism for "we don't like you," except in cases where people join and use the starting res to drop CCs or whatever. So it seems perfectly sensible to me.
<!--QuoteBegin-GoDlol+Feb 22 2005, 10:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (GoDlol @ Feb 22 2005, 10:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I got banned from lm a while back for using my regular name, so if i do play there, I have to smurf. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I seriously doubt you got banned for using your regular name, get me your SteamID and I'll find out what you REALLY got banned for (if it all)
<!--QuoteBegin-DuoGodOfDeath+Feb 22 2005, 11:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DuoGodOfDeath @ Feb 22 2005, 11:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I got banned for trying to kill TheAdj with a mine. On Origin in Refinery Hive next to the RT. I killed two skulks and all the people are like "SPAWNCAMPING !!@!@!@!@!@!" as if its the most evil thing next to cheats. On the server mentioned above, I'll stick with NSA until that server dies. Which it probably never will.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, here's the reason you got banned: Spammed CCs all pretty much all over the map to block stuff, blocked vents too, even after several people told him it wasn't allowed.
Spawncamped on 2-3 occasions too, warned after the first time. The second time the comm said "get the hell out", he also placed a mine in the hive on this occasion. Third time i banned him after he walked back into the hive as a lone marine and he didn't even bother to try and hurt the RT or the Hive.
kavasa: That's just the thing though, we're NOT allowed to ban people just because we don't like them. Our guidelines disallow that. I wouldn't say it doesn't add any weight, however, if the entire community (res slotters, regs, non-slotters, etc.) dislikes this player, but even so, it won't result in a ban, just more careful observation. Simply because if the ENTIRE community dislikes this person, there HAS to be a reason.
<!--QuoteBegin-Zero7+Feb 23 2005, 07:27 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zero7 @ Feb 23 2005, 07:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Simply because if the ENTIRE community dislikes this person, there HAS to be a reason. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I really dispise that sort of thinking. I cant discribe in words how much I dispise it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Actually, here's the reason you got banned: Spammed CCs all pretty much all over the map to block stuff, blocked vents too, even after several people told him it wasn't allowed.
Spawncamped on 2-3 occasions too, warned after the first time. The second time the comm said "get the hell out", he also placed a mine in the hive on this occasion. Third time i banned him after he walked back into the hive as a lone marine and he didn't even bother to try and hurt the RT or the Hive.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Only such CC spam was due to the game was about 30 seconds to ending. I didn't notice any skulks magically disappear but when I scanned waste and saw it was going up I sold them and gave waste an extra 20 seconds to build. And I heard people say skulks were hiding in the vents so I decidedly to block them inside there so they could not escape and build another hive if possible. Other "cc spams" were 2 out of 3 successful fade blocks which lead to their demise. I also blocked my team in Sat Comm because I believe once the hive went down the game was over. Which it was not as my first two sentences explain.
From my memory I only dropped a mine near the RT which was meant for TheAdj to land on as a lerk. 2 skulks decided to pub hop at me so I mowed them down and continued my crusade to kill the only true threat on the alien team, the evil lerk. He killed me adventually but I almost got him when a skulk and him rushed me and the skulk hit the mine.
Tell your team to better protect their hive because as a Marine it is my sworn duty to protect our structures while causing havoc on the alien team. Whether it be knifing a RT to spawncamping in which turn, a SMART alien team would send help which obviously in the "skilled server" as one member said in another thread, did not happen.
All in all I do not really care if I'm unbanned. If I'am I will continue my same strategy I use all the tiime on pubs. If your team fails to protect that which is sacred to them then pay the price. But right now my home at NSA is nice and cozy with kool people and with mp_bs 0.
<!--QuoteBegin-kavasa+Feb 22 2005, 09:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kavasa @ Feb 22 2005, 09:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I dunno why people get such bugs up their colons about admins banning people they just... don't like. That seems like the best way to do it, to me. If I'm a public server admin, I'm trying to create a server I like to play on. That means absence of people I don't like. So as long as people don't invent weird rules under which to ban, and just outright say "I'm banning you because I don't like you," I don't get what the problem is.
This is all in regards to the LM admin's post, if you're curious. And griefing/attitude is generally a euphemism for "we don't like you," except in cases where people join and use the starting res to drop CCs or whatever. So it seems perfectly sensible to me. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> hey that sounds familiar <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-tjosan+Feb 23 2005, 10:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (tjosan @ Feb 23 2005, 10:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Zero7+Feb 23 2005, 07:27 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zero7 @ Feb 23 2005, 07:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Simply because if the ENTIRE community dislikes this person, there HAS to be a reason. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I really dispise that sort of thinking. I cant discribe in words how much I dispise it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, I'm sorry you feel that way. I can describe to you why I think it's "somewhat" effective, but needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. Pray tell, why exactly do you despise the idea that if an entire community dislikes a person, there MUST be a reason for it? I see it as an early warning sign, simply because it's HARD to generate that much hate without actually doing something that borders on/does break the rules (Of course, an exception to this could be seen in history- Segregation in USA, but I feel our server to be "diverse" enough to have that not be prevalent on our server)
Duo : Whatever, I remember you used to hang out on our server and on IRC a lot. You were a decent member of the community. You knew the rules, however, you broke them repeatedly (despite being told by "everyone", INCLUDING your comm, whom you apparently ignored), and you were punished for doing so. As you said, you were unbanned, but you don't care to come back. I'm not here to convince you to come back at all, stay on NSA, if you please (which you do, apparently). I have nothing to say about them, no reason to drag them through the mud as we have been by countless others. I won't so more than this: I'm sorry you feel that way.
<!--QuoteBegin-Zero7+Feb 23 2005, 12:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zero7 @ Feb 23 2005, 12:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-tjosan+Feb 23 2005, 10:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (tjosan @ Feb 23 2005, 10:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Zero7+Feb 23 2005, 07:27 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zero7 @ Feb 23 2005, 07:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Simply because if the ENTIRE community dislikes this person, there HAS to be a reason. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I really dispise that sort of thinking. I cant discribe in words how much I dispise it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, I'm sorry you feel that way. I can describe to you why I think it's "somewhat" effective, but needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. Pray tell, why exactly do you despise the idea that if an entire community dislikes a person, there MUST be a reason for it? I see it as an early warning sign, simply because it's HARD to generate that much hate without actually doing something that borders on/does break the rules. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I dont trust mobs. I find it sad that a person with authority over others (if only on an internet server for a game) actually heed the words of a mob.
<!--QuoteBegin-tjosan+Feb 23 2005, 01:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (tjosan @ Feb 23 2005, 01:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Zero7+Feb 23 2005, 12:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zero7 @ Feb 23 2005, 12:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-tjosan+Feb 23 2005, 10:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (tjosan @ Feb 23 2005, 10:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Zero7+Feb 23 2005, 07:27 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zero7 @ Feb 23 2005, 07:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Simply because if the ENTIRE community dislikes this person, there HAS to be a reason. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I really dispise that sort of thinking. I cant discribe in words how much I dispise it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, I'm sorry you feel that way. I can describe to you why I think it's "somewhat" effective, but needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. Pray tell, why exactly do you despise the idea that if an entire community dislikes a person, there MUST be a reason for it? I see it as an early warning sign, simply because it's HARD to generate that much hate without actually doing something that borders on/does break the rules. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I dont trust mobs. I find it sad that a person with authority over others (if only on an internet server for a game) actually heed the words of a mob. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Pay attention please, notice "needs to be taken with a pinch of salt". Yes, that's extremely important here. IMO, the best way to run just about anything, is to listen to the community, but not have it dominate personal views. Most of the community "hated" players who were banned, I had pretty much neutral relations with, even FireWater and SaltzBad (on my side only, I'm not sure how they feel about me). Dictatorship doesn't work, but neither does a community that is entirely run by "the mob".
Cliff notes: 1) I don't take "the mob's" voice at face value. 2) Why would it be considered sad that I listen to my community? Have not people in the past complained about not being heard? I'm trying to be at least one of the people who hears them and takes it into consideration (without letting it dominate my own views)
Heh, I came to this conclusion while everything at arsclan was still copacetic. <3
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Pray tell, why exactly do you despise the idea that if an entire community dislikes a person, there MUST be a reason for it?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because they're good. I'm not stroking my own dong here, I'm speaking from experience on both sides of this line. I've watched a server full of regs just itching - <i>itching</i> for a reason to ban Romano because no one could touch him. And I've had full servers howling for my blood. And, last but not least, I too have felt that ugly little pinch in the back of my head when there's someone on the server that's head and shoulders above me and I just want them gone so I can be top dog again.
Don't pretend that it's not the case, because it is. All I'm saying is: be honest about it.
Note that I am still adressing your first statement. Whatever you've added/changed in recent posts has nothing to do with my first or second post on the matter.
Whatever, I still despise that way of thinking. If you changed your mind after my first reply or just didnt think through your first post, so be it. But dont go manipulating me into arguing against something I'm not...
No, its not hard to generate a huge amount of hatred against a single individual or a group of individuals without any reason in particular, events throughout the history should have proved that by now.
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
edited February 2005
<!--QuoteBegin-Zero7+Feb 22 2005, 09:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zero7 @ Feb 22 2005, 09:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It's not my intention to start a flame war here, so I'll merely lie down the facts from MY (as an admin on LunixMonster) viewpoint, as I've noticed some untruths happening regarding the server. If you wish to further discuss this, my IRC is open, or you can contact me via forum PM/e-mail.
<!--QuoteBegin-Church+Feb 12 2005, 11:49 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Church @ Feb 12 2005, 11:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I was banned from the Lunixmonster server for smurfing. Now arning whatsoever, and they also banned me from irc and forum when I tried to ask them what was going on (politely of course)." <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, this isn't the primary reason, but actually a secondary reason. Our ban logs have the reason: Disrespect, spawncamping, smurfing. Further inquiry revealed that you had been disrespectful when asked not to smurf. I'm not sure where the spawncamping comes from, so I won't say anything about that. You probably caught LB on a bad day.
<!--QuoteBegin-Church+Feb 12 2005, 11:49 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Church @ Feb 12 2005, 11:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> People should be warned that the owner of LM is not someone you can reason with. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not totally true, though at times it may appear that way. He has apologized to blatant mishaps in the past, this was not one of them. Though, it may have helped if you had created a PR thread in our forums. Usually people have a high success rate of receiving a pardon when doing so.
<!--QuoteBegin-milosis+Feb 12 2005, 01:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (milosis @ Feb 12 2005, 01:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->10 yr old admins who throw fits with someone that is playing better that them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know milosis said this. I'm sorry, but that's completely untrue (for the most part), we have no admins who are 10 years old, nor do we often "throw fits" over someone with a higher skill level. Though it may seem like that, at times (this is probably the reason why people feel that LM is so anti-competitive play, because we ban all the totally awesomest players). Note that the most common reason that we do have most of the more outspoken competitive players banned is a result of them treading the lines and tiptoeing along the rules (most commonly spawncamping and the whole "llama"/respect other players thing. Actually, it's almost entirely the "llama"/respect thing. Most of the banned competitive players, not all, but most had often "irked" the community, including the regulars). LM has never banned for skill (Though I'm almost positive at least one of you will argue that statement, which I'd be happy to debate with, in IRC).
<!--QuoteBegin-FireWater+Feb 13 2005, 03:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (FireWater @ Feb 13 2005, 03:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Please note that you were banned because of being suspected of cheating, NOT because of competitive status.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
FireWater : Untrue, sadly. Believe it or not, but hacking is actually one of the least used reasons we have to ban someone. Out of 491 bans, only 49 are left. I'll leave that up to interpretation.
Back to Church... <!--QuoteBegin-Church+Feb 14 2005, 04:36 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Church @ Feb 14 2005, 04:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well, rather they believed he was hacking, and since they're the admins, they don't have to prove it to anyone else.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, believe it or not, again, we did not suspect you of hacking. And, to the contrary, we actually verify that said players are cheating, as they are meticulously watched. Believe it or not, but this process of having mutliple admins verify a hacker has saved many innocents from the ban hammer (Though at this point, I think I'm probably talking to a wall, as your viewpoints seem to be set in stone).
<!--QuoteBegin-Church+Feb 22 2005, 04:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Church @ Feb 22 2005, 04:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Just don't go there. I don't anymore. They ban people rnadomly. Players don't have to put upw ith **** treatment.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Can you prove that we have banned people "randomly"? Every. Single. Ban. Is given a direct and acceptable reason. We (or at least, I) don't ban people just because I don't like them. Also, I don't think we give our playerbase "****" treatment. When nubs do wander on our server, often times, they are directed as to how to play the game, useful tips, etc. (Or at least, I noticed this while I'm on the server). But alas, I am but a single admin among a team, I cannot speak for everyone, but I do hope in the future, you will at least not direct others to NOT play on our server. I don't mind if you keep a grudge against us, I don't mind if you voice your opinion on us, but to create a negative first impression on us with people who have never been to a server is vastly unjust and unfair. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Zero, I was NEVER disrespectful on the LM server or to anyone related to LM until I was unceremoniously banned from both IRC AND the LM forums. I was smurfing, yes, and I never, EVER saw one rule that says you can't. I even checked the forum. In game, i didn't say anything bad about anyone. I stayed silent most of the time. And "spawncamping" HAH. We were in ns_mineshaft and we, as the marines, were BEING spawncamped. I quickly typed to tell my team to get their butts back there, trying to type "We need break spawn camp!" but it turned into "We need spawn camp" and then LB banned me. I went onto IRC and asked what's going on, and he banned me. Then I got ****. I was never, EVER disrespectful to (beyond the casual joke that everyone throws around now and then) anyone on LM before.
LB was either having some form of male PMS that day or he really can't be reasoned with.
And oh yeah, I was NOT asked not to smurf. I was just banned. No warning, nothing. I couldn't be disrespectful because I was llama'ed, so I couldn't talk.
LB really needs to stop taking things out of context when he's not even IN the game. He was somehow watching from IRC.
yes kavasa, I understand your point. Let me elaborate a bit more:
In my views, the LM server community is made up of a wide range of players of different skill levels (We have nubs, we have average players, we have slightly above average players, and we have/had some clan level players). Enough so that the perspective sense of the community SHOULD be able to at least make an informed decision about a player. Example: civillian was banned from our server, after the mass unbanning, he has come back at least a few times. Our regs tolerate him, infact, I'd say they're "friendly" with him now. And furthermore, we have lots of regs who dislike other regs, they're still around.
But the key point here is: "I don't take the community's voice at face value, I DO take it into consideration, but I do NOT always follow their voice)
Who said anything about pretending? That made me feel like your entire post was attacking me <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Edit - Church:
<!--QuoteBegin-Church+Feb 23 2005, 01:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Church @ Feb 23 2005, 01:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Zero, I was NEVER disrespectful on the LM server or to anyone related to LM until I was unceremoniously banned from both IRC AND the LM forums. I was smurfing, yes, and I never, EVER saw one rule that says you can't. I even checked the forum. In game, i didn't say anything bad about anyone. I stayed silent most of the time. And "spawncamping" HAH. We were in ns_mineshaft and we, as the marines, were BEING spawncamped. I quickly typed to tell my team to get their butts back there, trying to type "We need break spawn camp!" but it turned into "We need spawn camp" and then LB banned me. I went onto IRC and asked what's going on, and he banned me. Then I got ****. I was never, EVER disrespectful to (beyond the casual joke that everyone throws around now and then) anyone on LM before.
LB was either having some form of male PMS that day or he really can't be reasoned with.
And oh yeah, I was NOT asked not to smurf. I was just banned. No warning, nothing. I couldn't be disrespectful because I was llama'ed, so I couldn't talk.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My apologies for that Church, but as I've said, I wasn't there. I can't say anything to defend you or attack you. There's really nothing I can do to change your opinion on our server, but I do ask, that you do not hold it against me as an individual. Honestly, this is the first time I've seen something like THIS, in particular. I truly don't know what else to say.
GrendelAll that is fear...Join Date: 2002-07-19Member: 970Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, NS2 Playtester
If these servers were really such bad places to play, then why are you worried about being banned? Some random server op bans me for hacking (DoD, I'm not that good at NS!), I think to myself "Uh. Kay." <i>and never return</i>.
And if you <b>do</b> object to being banned, then surely that must be linked to some kind of awareness of what you have done wrong? e.g. Some form of puerile epenis display? This thread is just angst and bs, from where I'm standing.
Servers are private environments. If you have a problem with the way someone treated you, then deal with it like a grown up, via PMs. Don't come onto the forums crying about it. Jesus, have some self-respect.
Please don't wash your dirty linen in public. It just makes you look like a tosser.
Zero7 - well, fair enough. But turnabout is fair play, and the way LM is run seems to have estranged a majority of the competitive community. If you really want the place to be an inclusive wonderland of fun and lollipops where the unicorns run free, discounting all the disgruntled folks in this thread is going to be counterproductive. Chances are that there's a kernel of truth to the complaints.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And if you do object to being banned, then surely that must be linked to some kind of awareness of what you have done wrong?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course not. The public servers on which it's fun to play NS are few and far between. You can tell I care about a server when I start turning off the "mute everyone" script and setting hud_saytext back to 1. And when I reached that point with a server community a few months ago, it was made clear to me that I wasn't welcome. If I'd continued to play there, I'd've been banned for one thing or another. I <i>cared</i> about this, and I'd've <i>cared</i> if I got banned before I left of my own volition, but that's because I lost access to one of the few places where I could have fun outside of scrims. That's why people contest bans and are otherwise displeased when banned from decent servers.
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
Zero, I don't hold ANYTHING against you, nor against the server itself really. I just have problems with LB right now. The rest of the people seem pretty decent, like Gray_Duck.
Oh yeah, tell LB to DISPLAY CLEARLY for gods sake that smurfing is not allwoed or something. If he doesn't want people to do it, then he should let people KNOW about hsi rules.
On your comment: "Chances are that there's a kernel of truth to the complaints."
We actually had an "internal investigation" just a short while ago, to see areas where we could improve, and our more "problematic" areas (we, being the admins). It was surprisingly effective and helpful in pointing out our weaker areas as a whole. I found 1 comment about me in the entire thing, but unfortunately, there was no reason given as to why the person disliked me. As a whole, I've tried to be more general and understanding with the average player, as well as more tolerant with those who are newer or are used to the fully competitive environment (Was I successful? I don't know. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->).
Unfortunately, despite this, some people think it's "too little too late", and have their opinion set in stone; LM is a nub server, with jerk "10 year old" admins, who ABSOLUTELY HATE competitive play. Also, we are poopie heads. While I do realize that there will always be SOMEONE who cannot get along with the server for whatever reason, I still feel it to be unfair (Yea, I know, life is not fair, but isn't that the reason we're playing games? To "escape" from life? If only for a bit?) that people who have never been on the server, avoid us just because of someone ELSE'S bad experience (which, more often than not, could have easily been resolved had they taken the initiative).
In any case, many of the complains about bans on our server (that I have seen, anyways), could have easily been resolved in our PR forum (which, unfortunately, is not often used).
Do I deny that the majority of competitive players may feel alienated or even discriminated against by our "strict" rules? No. In fact, at times, I myself have been frustrated at some of the rules. Do I let it get to me? No. I see LM not as a place for sole competitive play, nor as a server for nubs to learn the basics. LM, IMO, is a place for nubs to improve their skill, and for competitive players to "take a break" from competitive play, but not completely and utterly dominate everyone else (though this does happen quite often, in the case of eBnar and some others). A sort of middleground, between the two, if you will.
Church:
Heh, aye, I have run into problems with the smurfing thing in the past. Simply, the easiest thing to be done, is that if an admin asks you to stop smurfing, please comply. That was more of a general statement to everyone, not directed to you, Church. The reason for this is because, you must understand, that random pubber #30942830492 is doing exceptionally well, this seems a BIT suspicious (so we just pay a LITTLE more attention to this player, I realize that it's possible for random people to have a good game, or just be exceptionally good at the game). It just makes our job as admins a little bit easier if we can identify the player as NOT being "joe average".
Example: Say we have an excellent player, we'll call him Stan. Stan pulls a consistent high score all the time. Next, we have a random pubber, we'll call him Max. Max doesn't tend to score very high in games, however, one game his score skyrockets. Even his "playing" style is different.
Now while this is not appliable to every situation, it is appliable to some, and can be LOOSELY applied here. I'll be sure to mention the: "Smurfing is discouraged, if an admin asks you to stop smurfing, please do so." thing to the other admins when I get a chance.
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
Yeah, I would've complied if I was asked instead of just llama'ed.
Something's wierd. I keep getting unbanned for a short while and then re-banned again. For example a few weeks back I think I played on LM again for like 15 minutes, left, tried to come back later and I was banned. And just 5 minutes ago, I had finish a 1-2 hour session on LM. I'm never quite sure if I'm banned or not <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Oh yeah, and try to make the rules in general more accessable. A player shouldn't have to google to LM website, and then wade throught he forums to find the rules. It took me like 10 minutes to find it (greanted, half of that time was spelling "lunix" wrong hehe)
Please do not discuss LM in this forum. People for the most part already that their opinions of LM (good or bad). Discussing it in MY thread about NSARMSLAB doesn't do anyone a bit of good.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->QUOTE (FireWater @ Feb 13 2005, 03:32 PM) Please note that you were banned because of being suspected of cheating, NOT because of competitive status.
FireWater : Untrue, sadly. Believe it or not, but hacking is actually one of the least used reasons we have to ban someone. Out of 491 bans, only 49 are left. I'll leave that up to interpretation. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
They had one of the members pancake using a lerk in front of me to check if I was aimbotting. I failed miserably to even land a few shots on him.
On more than one occasion did one of them comment on the fact that my bullets were not landing where my crosshair was aimed, even though he had a very high ping and the server obviously can't handle that many people and still run smoothly.
Here's a small quote from the in game NSA chat that was taken from a demo of one of the spectators. I had gone afk for at most 20 seconds to answer a pm on irc, and they come up with all this crap.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->(NSAChat) [#Steam OP] FuhrerDarqueSyde : configuring h4x
(NSAChat) `qq #findscrimns : hes not a hacker
(NSAChat) [NSA]DeathKnight :
(NSAChat) [NSA]DeathKnight : qq he is configuring a hack
(NSAChat) [NSA]DeathKnight : yeah
(NSAChat) [NSA]DeathKnight : he randomly slashed the knife
(NSAChat) [NSA]DeathKnight : it usually means setting vectors
(NSAChat) `qq #findscrimns : i do that too sometimes
(NSAChat) `qq #findscrimns : when i switch a config
(NSAChat) [NSA]DeathKnight : while standing in a corner
(NSAChat) `qq #findscrimns : or come back from console
(NSAChat) [NSA]DeathKnight : true
(NSAChat) `qq #findscrimns : he could be recording his own demo
(NSAChat) [NSA]DeathKnight : I have also seen people use a hack and do that
(NSAChat) [#Steam OP] FuhrerDarqueSyde : i used to hack
(NSAChat) `qq #findscrimns : i think he is harmondo
(NSAChat) [NSA]DeathKnight : I used to hack and change settings like that<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
...
Now honestly guys, when you see a guy who has a fairly decent score go afk, do you immediately think he is equiping his aimbot? No, you do not. No halfway sane person would. It seems like they have more of an agenda than an actual attempt to figure out if I was hacking or not. They <i>wanted</i> to believe I was hacking.
As far as I can tell, `qq is the only one out of the bunch who has a shred of common sense.
Now like I said before, I appreciate the fact that they did unban me shortly there after and admit their mistake. But wow...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->(TEAM) [NSA]DeathKnight: esp, wallhack, aimbot, aimthrough, full lambert, auto bunny hop, we have an ns_hook user <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He's got me all figured out.
Church: that sounds an awful lot like a certain government we're all familiar with <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If you claim that this thread has nothing to do with a personal vendetta against lunixmonster then I'll take your word for it firewater, don't prove me wrong. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
But really now, who doesn't have a personal vendetta against linuxmonster?
They had one of the members pancake using a lerk in front of me to check if I was aimbotting. I failed miserably to even land a few shots on him.
On more than one occasion did one of them comment on the fact that my bullets were not landing where my crosshair was aimed, even though he had a very high ping and the server obviously can't handle that many people and still run smoothly.
Here's a small quote from the in game NSA chat that was taken from a demo of one of the spectators. I had gone afk for at most 20 seconds to answer a pm on irc, and they come up with all this crap.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->(NSAChat) [#Steam OP] FuhrerDarqueSyde : configuring h4x
(NSAChat) `qq #findscrimns : hes not a hacker
(NSAChat) [NSA]DeathKnight :
(NSAChat) [NSA]DeathKnight : qq he is configuring a hack
(NSAChat) [NSA]DeathKnight : yeah
(NSAChat) [NSA]DeathKnight : he randomly slashed the knife
(NSAChat) [NSA]DeathKnight : it usually means setting vectors
(NSAChat) `qq #findscrimns : i do that too sometimes
(NSAChat) `qq #findscrimns : when i switch a config
(NSAChat) [NSA]DeathKnight : while standing in a corner
(NSAChat) `qq #findscrimns : or come back from console
(NSAChat) [NSA]DeathKnight : true
(NSAChat) `qq #findscrimns : he could be recording his own demo
(NSAChat) [NSA]DeathKnight : I have also seen people use a hack and do that
(NSAChat) [#Steam OP] FuhrerDarqueSyde : i used to hack
(NSAChat) `qq #findscrimns : i think he is harmondo
(NSAChat) [NSA]DeathKnight : I used to hack and change settings like that<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
...
Now honestly guys, when you see a guy who has a fairly decent score go afk, do you immediately think he is equiping his aimbot? No, you do not. No halfway sane person would. It seems like they have more of an agenda than an actual attempt to figure out if I was hacking or not. They <i>wanted</i> to believe I was hacking.
As far as I can tell, `qq is the only one out of the bunch who has a shred of common sense.
Now like I said before, I appreciate the fact that they did unban me shortly there after and admit their mistake. But wow...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->(TEAM) [NSA]DeathKnight: esp, wallhack, aimbot, aimthrough, full lambert, auto bunny hop, we have an ns_hook user <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He's got me all figured out.
Church: that sounds an awful lot like a certain government we're all familiar with <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Harmondo.... you are correct... However.....once again..
How many other servers admit they are wrong and unban.. how many other servers will take the time to review demos in an unban request... so that in the end the right decision is made... youve gotta give them that
I believe it happened because you were fairly new to the server.... Regulars (Aes, Firewater, QQ, Turin, Duogod, Scout, ect) are all very extremely good, and non regs and nubs always scream for admins and that those guys are hacking, but everyone (regs) know they dont....
Harmondo, you said yourself people make mistakes, and in order to keep the server hack free, some mistakes will arise, however on the NSA server even less so since they must always be supported by demo's, and the banned can always file a ban appeal and they will ALWAYS go back and review logs/demos/ect in this case..
WHat i do know Harmondo is that it will most likely never happen again, as they know you now, and will defend you as a clan player and such.....
Cept Fury Law :-( stupid stupid Fury
And if they dont... i will..... long as u respond to my orders when i comm.. else i cut u off from medpacks and proceed to jeer at you over voicecomm for the rest of the round, to the laughter of the other marines....
Anyways, Harmondo, mistakes do happen, but they did admit they were wrong, and i hope to see u pwnin it up on the NSA server sometime
~Jason
<!--QuoteBegin-Church+Feb 12 2005, 11:49 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Church @ Feb 12 2005, 11:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I was banned from the Lunixmonster server for smurfing. Now arning whatsoever, and they also banned me from irc and forum when I tried to ask them what was going on (politely of course)." <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, this isn't the primary reason, but actually a secondary reason. Our ban logs have the reason: Disrespect, spawncamping, smurfing. Further inquiry revealed that you had been disrespectful when asked not to smurf. I'm not sure where the spawncamping comes from, so I won't say anything about that. You probably caught LB on a bad day.
<!--QuoteBegin-Church+Feb 12 2005, 11:49 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Church @ Feb 12 2005, 11:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> People should be warned that the owner of LM is not someone you can reason with. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not totally true, though at times it may appear that way. He has apologized to blatant mishaps in the past, this was not one of them. Though, it may have helped if you had created a PR thread in our forums. Usually people have a high success rate of receiving a pardon when doing so.
<!--QuoteBegin-milosis+Feb 12 2005, 01:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (milosis @ Feb 12 2005, 01:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->10 yr old admins who throw fits with someone that is playing better that them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know milosis said this. I'm sorry, but that's completely untrue (for the most part), we have no admins who are 10 years old, nor do we often "throw fits" over someone with a higher skill level. Though it may seem like that, at times (this is probably the reason why people feel that LM is so anti-competitive play, because we ban all the totally awesomest players). Note that the most common reason that we do have most of the more outspoken competitive players banned is a result of them treading the lines and tiptoeing along the rules (most commonly spawncamping and the whole "llama"/respect other players thing. Actually, it's almost entirely the "llama"/respect thing. Most of the banned competitive players, not all, but most had often "irked" the community, including the regulars). LM has never banned for skill (Though I'm almost positive at least one of you will argue that statement, which I'd be happy to debate with, in IRC).
<!--QuoteBegin-FireWater+Feb 13 2005, 03:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (FireWater @ Feb 13 2005, 03:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Please note that you were banned because of being suspected of cheating, NOT because of competitive status.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
FireWater : Untrue, sadly. Believe it or not, but hacking is actually one of the least used reasons we have to ban someone. Out of 491 bans, only 49 are left. I'll leave that up to interpretation.
Back to Church...
<!--QuoteBegin-Church+Feb 14 2005, 04:36 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Church @ Feb 14 2005, 04:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well, rather they believed he was hacking, and since they're the admins, they don't have to prove it to anyone else.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, believe it or not, again, we did not suspect you of hacking. And, to the contrary, we actually verify that said players are cheating, as they are meticulously watched. Believe it or not, but this process of having mutliple admins verify a hacker has saved many innocents from the ban hammer (Though at this point, I think I'm probably talking to a wall, as your viewpoints seem to be set in stone).
<!--QuoteBegin-Church+Feb 22 2005, 04:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Church @ Feb 22 2005, 04:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Just don't go there. I don't anymore. They ban people rnadomly. Players don't have to put upw ith **** treatment.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Can you prove that we have banned people "randomly"? Every. Single. Ban. Is given a direct and acceptable reason. We (or at least, I) don't ban people just because I don't like them. Also, I don't think we give our playerbase "****" treatment. When nubs do wander on our server, often times, they are directed as to how to play the game, useful tips, etc. (Or at least, I noticed this while I'm on the server). But alas, I am but a single admin among a team, I cannot speak for everyone, but I do hope in the future, you will at least not direct others to NOT play on our server. I don't mind if you keep a grudge against us, I don't mind if you voice your opinion on us, but to create a negative first impression on us with people who have never been to a server is vastly unjust and unfair.
But on harmondo's point, harm i got on vent with you like the day after that, i was `qq and you said it yourself, you said that there was that one time on the lava cat walk where you had no possible way of knowing a guy was there but you knew he was there by instinct. I think that happens to us all, we do something amazing and cant explain how it happend. That was the main reason that they thought you were hacking, but I thought by pancaking it would prove that you werent hacking, yet they didnt seem to believe it.
Personally i have had many occasions where i have felt like if i had just been killed like i had killed that alien, that i would totally be thinking that they were hacking, unexplainable things happen, but it doesnt mean they are hacking.
This is all in regards to the LM admin's post, if you're curious. And griefing/attitude is generally a euphemism for "we don't like you," except in cases where people join and use the starting res to drop CCs or whatever. So it seems perfectly sensible to me.
I seriously doubt you got banned for using your regular name, get me your SteamID and I'll find out what you REALLY got banned for (if it all)
<!--QuoteBegin-DuoGodOfDeath+Feb 22 2005, 11:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DuoGodOfDeath @ Feb 22 2005, 11:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I got banned for trying to kill TheAdj with a mine. On Origin in Refinery Hive next to the RT. I killed two skulks and all the people are like "SPAWNCAMPING !!@!@!@!@!@!" as if its the most evil thing next to cheats. On the server mentioned above, I'll stick with NSA until that server dies. Which it probably never will.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, here's the reason you got banned:
Spammed CCs all pretty much all over the map to block stuff, blocked vents too, even after several people told him it wasn't allowed.
Spawncamped on 2-3 occasions too, warned after the first time.
The second time the comm said "get the hell out", he also placed a mine in the hive on this occasion.
Third time i banned him after he walked back into the hive as a lone marine and he didn't even bother to try and hurt the RT or the Hive.
kavasa: That's just the thing though, we're NOT allowed to ban people just because we don't like them. Our guidelines disallow that. I wouldn't say it doesn't add any weight, however, if the entire community (res slotters, regs, non-slotters, etc.) dislikes this player, but even so, it won't result in a ban, just more careful observation. Simply because if the ENTIRE community dislikes this person, there HAS to be a reason.
I really dispise that sort of thinking. I cant discribe in words how much I dispise it.
yeah <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> I'll never be as good as nitro.
Spammed CCs all pretty much all over the map to block stuff, blocked vents too, even after several people told him it wasn't allowed.
Spawncamped on 2-3 occasions too, warned after the first time.
The second time the comm said "get the hell out", he also placed a mine in the hive on this occasion.
Third time i banned him after he walked back into the hive as a lone marine and he didn't even bother to try and hurt the RT or the Hive.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Only such CC spam was due to the game was about 30 seconds to ending. I didn't notice any skulks magically disappear but when I scanned waste and saw it was going up I sold them and gave waste an extra 20 seconds to build. And I heard people say skulks were hiding in the vents so I decidedly to block them inside there so they could not escape and build another hive if possible. Other "cc spams" were 2 out of 3 successful fade blocks which lead to their demise. I also blocked my team in Sat Comm because I believe once the hive went down the game was over. Which it was not as my first two sentences explain.
From my memory I only dropped a mine near the RT which was meant for TheAdj to land on as a lerk. 2 skulks decided to pub hop at me so I mowed them down and continued my crusade to kill the only true threat on the alien team, the evil lerk. He killed me adventually but I almost got him when a skulk and him rushed me and the skulk hit the mine.
Tell your team to better protect their hive because as a Marine it is my sworn duty to protect our structures while causing havoc on the alien team. Whether it be knifing a RT to spawncamping in which turn, a SMART alien team would send help which obviously in the "skilled server" as one member said in another thread, did not happen.
All in all I do not really care if I'm unbanned. If I'am I will continue my same strategy I use all the tiime on pubs. If your team fails to protect that which is sacred to them then pay the price. But right now my home at NSA is nice and cozy with kool people and with mp_bs 0.
This is all in regards to the LM admin's post, if you're curious. And griefing/attitude is generally a euphemism for "we don't like you," except in cases where people join and use the starting res to drop CCs or whatever. So it seems perfectly sensible to me. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
hey that sounds familiar <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
hey I <3 you. I just dont think lemie does.
I really dispise that sort of thinking. I cant discribe in words how much I dispise it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, I'm sorry you feel that way. I can describe to you why I think it's "somewhat" effective, but needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. Pray tell, why exactly do you despise the idea that if an entire community dislikes a person, there MUST be a reason for it? I see it as an early warning sign, simply because it's HARD to generate that much hate without actually doing something that borders on/does break the rules (Of course, an exception to this could be seen in history- Segregation in USA, but I feel our server to be "diverse" enough to have that not be prevalent on our server)
Duo : Whatever, I remember you used to hang out on our server and on IRC a lot. You were a decent member of the community. You knew the rules, however, you broke them repeatedly (despite being told by "everyone", INCLUDING your comm, whom you apparently ignored), and you were punished for doing so. As you said, you were unbanned, but you don't care to come back. I'm not here to convince you to come back at all, stay on NSA, if you please (which you do, apparently). I have nothing to say about them, no reason to drag them through the mud as we have been by countless others. I won't so more than this: I'm sorry you feel that way.
I really dispise that sort of thinking. I cant discribe in words how much I dispise it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, I'm sorry you feel that way. I can describe to you why I think it's "somewhat" effective, but needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. Pray tell, why exactly do you despise the idea that if an entire community dislikes a person, there MUST be a reason for it? I see it as an early warning sign, simply because it's HARD to generate that much hate without actually doing something that borders on/does break the rules. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dont trust mobs. I find it sad that a person with authority over others (if only on an internet server for a game) actually heed the words of a mob.
I really dispise that sort of thinking. I cant discribe in words how much I dispise it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, I'm sorry you feel that way. I can describe to you why I think it's "somewhat" effective, but needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. Pray tell, why exactly do you despise the idea that if an entire community dislikes a person, there MUST be a reason for it? I see it as an early warning sign, simply because it's HARD to generate that much hate without actually doing something that borders on/does break the rules. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dont trust mobs. I find it sad that a person with authority over others (if only on an internet server for a game) actually heed the words of a mob. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pay attention please, notice "needs to be taken with a pinch of salt". Yes, that's extremely important here. IMO, the best way to run just about anything, is to listen to the community, but not have it dominate personal views. Most of the community "hated" players who were banned, I had pretty much neutral relations with, even FireWater and SaltzBad (on my side only, I'm not sure how they feel about me). Dictatorship doesn't work, but neither does a community that is entirely run by "the mob".
Cliff notes:
1) I don't take "the mob's" voice at face value.
2) Why would it be considered sad that I listen to my community? Have not people in the past complained about not being heard? I'm trying to be at least one of the people who hears them and takes it into consideration (without letting it dominate my own views)
Heh, I came to this conclusion while everything at arsclan was still copacetic. <3
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Pray tell, why exactly do you despise the idea that if an entire community dislikes a person, there MUST be a reason for it?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because they're good. I'm not stroking my own dong here, I'm speaking from experience on both sides of this line. I've watched a server full of regs just itching - <i>itching</i> for a reason to ban Romano because no one could touch him. And I've had full servers howling for my blood. And, last but not least, I too have felt that ugly little pinch in the back of my head when there's someone on the server that's head and shoulders above me and I just want them gone so I can be top dog again.
Don't pretend that it's not the case, because it is. All I'm saying is: be honest about it.
Whatever, I still despise that way of thinking. If you changed your mind after my first reply or just didnt think through your first post, so be it. But dont go manipulating me into arguing against something I'm not...
No, its not hard to generate a huge amount of hatred against a single individual or a group of individuals without any reason in particular, events throughout the history should have proved that by now.
<!--QuoteBegin-Church+Feb 12 2005, 11:49 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Church @ Feb 12 2005, 11:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I was banned from the Lunixmonster server for smurfing. Now arning whatsoever, and they also banned me from irc and forum when I tried to ask them what was going on (politely of course)." <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, this isn't the primary reason, but actually a secondary reason. Our ban logs have the reason: Disrespect, spawncamping, smurfing. Further inquiry revealed that you had been disrespectful when asked not to smurf. I'm not sure where the spawncamping comes from, so I won't say anything about that. You probably caught LB on a bad day.
<!--QuoteBegin-Church+Feb 12 2005, 11:49 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Church @ Feb 12 2005, 11:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> People should be warned that the owner of LM is not someone you can reason with. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not totally true, though at times it may appear that way. He has apologized to blatant mishaps in the past, this was not one of them. Though, it may have helped if you had created a PR thread in our forums. Usually people have a high success rate of receiving a pardon when doing so.
<!--QuoteBegin-milosis+Feb 12 2005, 01:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (milosis @ Feb 12 2005, 01:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->10 yr old admins who throw fits with someone that is playing better that them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know milosis said this. I'm sorry, but that's completely untrue (for the most part), we have no admins who are 10 years old, nor do we often "throw fits" over someone with a higher skill level. Though it may seem like that, at times (this is probably the reason why people feel that LM is so anti-competitive play, because we ban all the totally awesomest players). Note that the most common reason that we do have most of the more outspoken competitive players banned is a result of them treading the lines and tiptoeing along the rules (most commonly spawncamping and the whole "llama"/respect other players thing. Actually, it's almost entirely the "llama"/respect thing. Most of the banned competitive players, not all, but most had often "irked" the community, including the regulars). LM has never banned for skill (Though I'm almost positive at least one of you will argue that statement, which I'd be happy to debate with, in IRC).
<!--QuoteBegin-FireWater+Feb 13 2005, 03:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (FireWater @ Feb 13 2005, 03:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Please note that you were banned because of being suspected of cheating, NOT because of competitive status.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
FireWater : Untrue, sadly. Believe it or not, but hacking is actually one of the least used reasons we have to ban someone. Out of 491 bans, only 49 are left. I'll leave that up to interpretation.
Back to Church...
<!--QuoteBegin-Church+Feb 14 2005, 04:36 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Church @ Feb 14 2005, 04:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well, rather they believed he was hacking, and since they're the admins, they don't have to prove it to anyone else.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, believe it or not, again, we did not suspect you of hacking. And, to the contrary, we actually verify that said players are cheating, as they are meticulously watched. Believe it or not, but this process of having mutliple admins verify a hacker has saved many innocents from the ban hammer (Though at this point, I think I'm probably talking to a wall, as your viewpoints seem to be set in stone).
<!--QuoteBegin-Church+Feb 22 2005, 04:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Church @ Feb 22 2005, 04:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Just don't go there. I don't anymore. They ban people rnadomly. Players don't have to put upw ith **** treatment.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Can you prove that we have banned people "randomly"? Every. Single. Ban. Is given a direct and acceptable reason. We (or at least, I) don't ban people just because I don't like them. Also, I don't think we give our playerbase "****" treatment. When nubs do wander on our server, often times, they are directed as to how to play the game, useful tips, etc. (Or at least, I noticed this while I'm on the server). But alas, I am but a single admin among a team, I cannot speak for everyone, but I do hope in the future, you will at least not direct others to NOT play on our server. I don't mind if you keep a grudge against us, I don't mind if you voice your opinion on us, but to create a negative first impression on us with people who have never been to a server is vastly unjust and unfair. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Zero, I was NEVER disrespectful on the LM server or to anyone related to LM until I was unceremoniously banned from both IRC AND the LM forums. I was smurfing, yes, and I never, EVER saw one rule that says you can't. I even checked the forum. In game, i didn't say anything bad about anyone. I stayed silent most of the time. And "spawncamping" HAH. We were in ns_mineshaft and we, as the marines, were BEING spawncamped. I quickly typed to tell my team to get their butts back there, trying to type "We need break spawn camp!" but it turned into "We need spawn camp" and then LB banned me. I went onto IRC and asked what's going on, and he banned me. Then I got ****. I was never, EVER disrespectful to (beyond the casual joke that everyone throws around now and then) anyone on LM before.
LB was either having some form of male PMS that day or he really can't be reasoned with.
And oh yeah, I was NOT asked not to smurf. I was just banned. No warning, nothing. I couldn't be disrespectful because I was llama'ed, so I couldn't talk.
LB really needs to stop taking things out of context when he's not even IN the game. He was somehow watching from IRC.
In my views, the LM server community is made up of a wide range of players of different skill levels (We have nubs, we have average players, we have slightly above average players, and we have/had some clan level players). Enough so that the perspective sense of the community SHOULD be able to at least make an informed decision about a player. Example: civillian was banned from our server, after the mass unbanning, he has come back at least a few times. Our regs tolerate him, infact, I'd say they're "friendly" with him now. And furthermore, we have lots of regs who dislike other regs, they're still around.
But the key point here is: "I don't take the community's voice at face value, I DO take it into consideration, but I do NOT always follow their voice)
Who said anything about pretending? That made me feel like your entire post was attacking me <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Edit - Church:
<!--QuoteBegin-Church+Feb 23 2005, 01:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Church @ Feb 23 2005, 01:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Zero, I was NEVER disrespectful on the LM server or to anyone related to LM until I was unceremoniously banned from both IRC AND the LM forums. I was smurfing, yes, and I never, EVER saw one rule that says you can't. I even checked the forum. In game, i didn't say anything bad about anyone. I stayed silent most of the time. And "spawncamping" HAH. We were in ns_mineshaft and we, as the marines, were BEING spawncamped. I quickly typed to tell my team to get their butts back there, trying to type "We need break spawn camp!" but it turned into "We need spawn camp" and then LB banned me. I went onto IRC and asked what's going on, and he banned me. Then I got ****. I was never, EVER disrespectful to (beyond the casual joke that everyone throws around now and then) anyone on LM before.
LB was either having some form of male PMS that day or he really can't be reasoned with.
And oh yeah, I was NOT asked not to smurf. I was just banned. No warning, nothing. I couldn't be disrespectful because I was llama'ed, so I couldn't talk.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My apologies for that Church, but as I've said, I wasn't there. I can't say anything to defend you or attack you. There's really nothing I can do to change your opinion on our server, but I do ask, that you do not hold it against me as an individual. Honestly, this is the first time I've seen something like THIS, in particular. I truly don't know what else to say.
And if you <b>do</b> object to being banned, then surely that must be linked to some kind of awareness of what you have done wrong? e.g. Some form of puerile epenis display? This thread is just angst and bs, from where I'm standing.
Servers are private environments. If you have a problem with the way someone treated you, then deal with it like a grown up, via PMs. Don't come onto the forums crying about it. Jesus, have some self-respect.
Please don't wash your dirty linen in public. It just makes you look like a tosser.
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Of course not. The public servers on which it's fun to play NS are few and far between. You can tell I care about a server when I start turning off the "mute everyone" script and setting hud_saytext back to 1. And when I reached that point with a server community a few months ago, it was made clear to me that I wasn't welcome. If I'd continued to play there, I'd've been banned for one thing or another. I <i>cared</i> about this, and I'd've <i>cared</i> if I got banned before I left of my own volition, but that's because I lost access to one of the few places where I could have fun outside of scrims. That's why people contest bans and are otherwise displeased when banned from decent servers.
Oh yeah, tell LB to DISPLAY CLEARLY for gods sake that smurfing is not allwoed or something. If he doesn't want people to do it, then he should let people KNOW about hsi rules.
On your comment: "Chances are that there's a kernel of truth to the complaints."
We actually had an "internal investigation" just a short while ago, to see areas where we could improve, and our more "problematic" areas (we, being the admins). It was surprisingly effective and helpful in pointing out our weaker areas as a whole. I found 1 comment about me in the entire thing, but unfortunately, there was no reason given as to why the person disliked me. As a whole, I've tried to be more general and understanding with the average player, as well as more tolerant with those who are newer or are used to the fully competitive environment (Was I successful? I don't know. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->).
Unfortunately, despite this, some people think it's "too little too late", and have their opinion set in stone; LM is a nub server, with jerk "10 year old" admins, who ABSOLUTELY HATE competitive play. Also, we are poopie heads. While I do realize that there will always be SOMEONE who cannot get along with the server for whatever reason, I still feel it to be unfair (Yea, I know, life is not fair, but isn't that the reason we're playing games? To "escape" from life? If only for a bit?) that people who have never been on the server, avoid us just because of someone ELSE'S bad experience (which, more often than not, could have easily been resolved had they taken the initiative).
In any case, many of the complains about bans on our server (that I have seen, anyways), could have easily been resolved in our PR forum (which, unfortunately, is not often used).
Do I deny that the majority of competitive players may feel alienated or even discriminated against by our "strict" rules? No. In fact, at times, I myself have been frustrated at some of the rules. Do I let it get to me? No. I see LM not as a place for sole competitive play, nor as a server for nubs to learn the basics. LM, IMO, is a place for nubs to improve their skill, and for competitive players to "take a break" from competitive play, but not completely and utterly dominate everyone else (though this does happen quite often, in the case of eBnar and some others). A sort of middleground, between the two, if you will.
Church:
Heh, aye, I have run into problems with the smurfing thing in the past. Simply, the easiest thing to be done, is that if an admin asks you to stop smurfing, please comply. That was more of a general statement to everyone, not directed to you, Church. The reason for this is because, you must understand, that random pubber #30942830492 is doing exceptionally well, this seems a BIT suspicious (so we just pay a LITTLE more attention to this player, I realize that it's possible for random people to have a good game, or just be exceptionally good at the game). It just makes our job as admins a little bit easier if we can identify the player as NOT being "joe average".
Example: Say we have an excellent player, we'll call him Stan. Stan pulls a consistent high score all the time. Next, we have a random pubber, we'll call him Max. Max doesn't tend to score very high in games, however, one game his score skyrockets. Even his "playing" style is different.
Now while this is not appliable to every situation, it is appliable to some, and can be LOOSELY applied here. I'll be sure to mention the: "Smurfing is discouraged, if an admin asks you to stop smurfing, please do so." thing to the other admins when I get a chance.
Something's wierd. I keep getting unbanned for a short while and then re-banned again. For example a few weeks back I think I played on LM again for like 15 minutes, left, tried to come back later and I was banned. And just 5 minutes ago, I had finish a 1-2 hour session on LM. I'm never quite sure if I'm banned or not <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Oh yeah, and try to make the rules in general more accessable. A player shouldn't have to google to LM website, and then wade throught he forums to find the rules. It took me like 10 minutes to find it (greanted, half of that time was spelling "lunix" wrong hehe)
Please stop.
Please note that you were banned because of being suspected of cheating, NOT because of competitive status.
FireWater : Untrue, sadly. Believe it or not, but hacking is actually one of the least used reasons we have to ban someone. Out of 491 bans, only 49 are left. I'll leave that up to interpretation.
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Umm I was talking to harmondo, not you.
(On a side note. Not a flame, if you think it is: Why can't I discuss LM in this forum? You're discussing NSA =/)