I personally think that there should be a clear distinction between the mapping guidelines for Competitive and Public Server play. When making a map it's incredibly difficult to make it balanced <b>and</b> keep the atmosphere; to to please a pubber <b>and</b> a clan player. Some maps are accepted by both parties, but I can think of few maps that suit one type perfectly.
It this fact that has prompted me to think about writing up some clear guidelines for Competitive play. Some of these guidelines may be simple extensions to the general Mapping Guidelines, but others will be in complete contrast. For me the aforementioned two types of NSPlayer (or two types of mentality if you will) dictate to a mapper how his map will be received. It is no coincidence that certain maps, while being praised by casual gamers across the NS community, are loathed by the competitive scene and enjoy very little play by this collective.
I would like to point out that it is by no means the fault of the mapper, constantly trying to pander to the respective needs of the two very different sides of the same coin. A map that maintains excellent visual standards in architecture, enviromental physics and lighting while also keeping the performance-related gameplay well above tolerance levels simply can't be done within the constraints of the HL engine and the NS coding. We need to change the way we think about this.
We need to imagine that we're designing clothes for the sport-star and the fashionable businessman. One wants superb performance, 100% of the time. The other wants his suit to fit well and look the part. Certain sports apparel companies may try to do fashion and on almost every occasion they fail. On the other hand when was the last time you saw Andre Agassi wearing LaCoste tennis shoes.
A mapper must be very clear on what they are going to make before they start making it. They must ask themselves if it will be a Combat or a Classic map? a normal or a funmap? -and I also suggest- a Public or Competitive map?
I'm not <i>melting all the guidelines together</i>, I'll be providing a set of guidelines written <b>by</b> mappers and competitive players <b>for</b> mappers making NS CAL (or otherwise) maps.
[Edit: Feb 9th] I've come to the first major disagreement with the existing mapping guidelines, and by major I mean quite major.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I say maybe 15 seconds to walk to each hive from marine start.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->The Mapping Guidelines advise a MINIMUM of 30 seconds from MS to each Hive to "ensure that maps aren't scouted by marine players within the first five minutes of a match, making the game more interesting". If I have more input from other clanplayers to lower this to 15 seconds then I'll include it in the Competitive Mapping Guidelines.
[And another] <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->keep the marine side quiet (good for marines to hear the alien growls and squeals) then create [things] that drone out voice communication and scare the marines as they get farther away<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Would this still be wanted by the Competitive community? I'd guess if the Alien areas were really noisy enough to drown out Marine comms, the comp. players would just use "stopsound" or simply have a multitude of binds at their disposal. I'd like some comp players imput on this.
<!--QuoteBegin-Crispy+Feb 9 2005, 01:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crispy @ Feb 9 2005, 01:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> [And another] <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->keep the marine side quiet (good for marines to hear the alien growls and squeals) then create [things] that drone out voice communication and scare the marines as they get farther away<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Would this still be wanted by the Competitive community? I'd guess if the Alien areas were really noisy enough to drown out Marine comms, the comp. players would just use "stopsound" or simply have a multitude of binds at their disposal. I'd like some comp players imput on this. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> mp3 sounds are your friend <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> maybe some players used to stopsound may feel kinda fooled... but I dont spend weeks on adding, fixing and remixing soundfiles just to see any idiot "cheats" this atmospheric element off. thats very imporatant in areas where you MUSNT hear anything exept the enviromental sounds.
we got pretty much offtopic I think....
btw: did I missed something? what exactly does "Cal" mean o_0
CAL stands for <a href='http://www.caleague.com/' target='_blank'>Cyberathlete Amateur League</a>. I'm talking about making a new set of mapping guidelines specifically for <b>competitive play</b>. Competitive players play the maps so much and focus all of their efforts on their performance. Due to this most of them honestly don't notice most of the lovely sounds and particle systems that we put into our maps to give them an authentic mood and ambience (except when it starts affecting their performance).
P.S. ...and Grav you can just rename a new file (five seconds of silence) to the same name as the original MP3 and paste it into the right folder. Most competitors will do anything to get the upper hand.
I once decided to play around with this in Counter-Strike, changing the hostage "let's get outta here" sound to the "base siren" from TFC (only about 5 times louder). In theory I just wanted to test it out but it improved my game so much<span style='color:orange'>*</span> that I left it in until the new version deleted it. Most competitive players are the same, if they find anything that gives them the upper hand they'll put their morals to one side and stick with it until it's forceably removed for them.
<span style='color:orange'>*</span> For example I could hear hostages being rescued from <b>outside</b> the warehouse on cs_assault, meaning that I was free to go on the offensive as Terrorist when I knew there was only one or two CTs left, and that I new that my teammate was in the hostage room half a second before he got killed, automatically telling me that the last Terrorist was camped up in there.
P.S. Yes I am ashamed.
P.P.S. It was only in the next version of CS that I started playing for a clan, and no I didn't use it for clan matches.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->CAL stands for Cyber Athlete League.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> never heared about it...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->P.S. ...and Grav you can just rename a new file (five seconds of silence) to the same name as the original MP3 and paste it into the right folder.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> doesnt consistency work with mp3 files?
Probably. As you can tell it's been a while since I played competitively. I think the next, big thing in anti-cheatware was Punkbuster when I was clanned <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-homicide+Feb 15 2005, 06:58 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (homicide @ Feb 15 2005, 06:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> All ambients should be removed or be stopsound friendly on competative maps. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> thats why we start using mp3´s. all we can do to prevent "cheating" will be done.
CAL is the american ns league. competetive play, yeah. and yes mp_consistency is on, but that doesnt mean its good or smart to fill the map with random sounds and mp3's. because then it propably wont get played which is a shame especially if the map is otherwise very nice. music and random ambient sounds possess no atmospheric value if youve played this game enough.
edit: oh, and this
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->thats very imporatant in areas where you MUSNT hear anything exept the enviromental sounds.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
is just plain wrong. gameplay > atmosphere. especially in maps.
<!--QuoteBegin-Lt Gravity+Feb 9 2005, 12:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lt Gravity @ Feb 9 2005, 12:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> at the end there is only one important thing: as long as the ns community likes a map, everything is allowed <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> and doesnt this especially mean the competetive community, for are they not the ones that care about this game the most? (ok, except devs)
<!--QuoteBegin-TOmekki+Feb 15 2005, 09:54 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TOmekki @ Feb 15 2005, 09:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Lt Gravity+Feb 9 2005, 12:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lt Gravity @ Feb 9 2005, 12:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> at the end there is only one important thing: as long as the ns community likes a map, everything is allowed <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> and doesnt this especially mean the competetive community, for are they not the ones that care about this game the most? (ok, except devs) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> exept the MAPPERS?
everyone is free to play maps he wants to play. but I cant hear this "a box without lighting and atmosphere will do it in competative play"-excuse anymore. you play your WARS, right? so why should there anything war related missing? dust, noise, obstacles, messed up lights (areas that are too dark and areas you go blind at), background fight sounds etc.? and believe it or not: there are people out there playing ns just because that!
I'll put the stopsound friendly issue up for debate in the thread when I reach that section o fthe guidelines. At the moment I'm going through each section and waiting for feedback before adding it the the threadstarter (the guidelines themselves).
Up for debate at the moment are the specifications that Hive Rooms should have.
<!--QuoteBegin-Lt Gravity+Feb 15 2005, 11:37 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lt Gravity @ Feb 15 2005, 11:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-TOmekki+Feb 15 2005, 09:54 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TOmekki @ Feb 15 2005, 09:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Lt Gravity+Feb 9 2005, 12:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lt Gravity @ Feb 9 2005, 12:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> at the end there is only one important thing: as long as the ns community likes a map, everything is allowed <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> and doesnt this especially mean the competetive community, for are they not the ones that care about this game the most? (ok, except devs) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> exept the MAPPERS?
everyone is free to play maps he wants to play. but I cant hear this "a box without lighting and atmosphere will do it in competative play"-excuse anymore. you play your WARS, right? so why should there anything war related missing? dust, noise, obstacles, messed up lights (areas that are too dark and areas you go blind at), background fight sounds etc.? and believe it or not: there are people out there playing ns just because that! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> stuff like that doesnt really fit in an ns map :o
and youre wrong, anyways. this isnt a war this is a game, and it has to be fun to play. huge, laggy particle systems, pitch-black areas and loud ambient noises take away from the fun and playability factor. its really simple as that. your own map is a nice balance between dark and bright, and it has very good architecture too so im not really pointing any map critique towards you =/
and that last sentence confuses me a bit...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->and believe it or not: there are people out there playing ns just because that!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->stuff like that doesnt really fit in an ns map :o<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> it was an example of what effects could be used to make a map more atmospheric. EXAMPLE! thats doesnt mean I would like to play a map thats completely hostile to players.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->and youre wrong, anyways. this isnt a war this is a game, and it has to be fun to play. huge, laggy particle systems, pitch-black areas and loud ambient noises take away from the fun and playability factor.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I meant war like in "lets have a war." (clan statement) thats why I quoted the term. and thats a cause of laughter every time I hear it <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->your own map is a nice balance between dark and bright, and it has very good architecture too so im not really pointing any map critique towards you =/<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> hopefully we both know the same map <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> thats why Im bothering with this because I realized a huge gap between what mappers like to do and what competative players want to see. ever since I got the statement "I dont like the doors, they block movement." from a clanplayer I nearly banned him from playtesting. because doors are a tactical element. you dont have any problems with them when you know how to move RIGHT. another cause had been the trigger. it was set so any marine entering the area of it would cause the door to open early enough so marines can get trough without waittime. same with skulks, even able to jump through it. so simple answer: strafejump. this people are no help for playtesting.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->and believe it or not: there are people out there playing ns just because that!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> atmosphere like it said abouve. no offense but why should I care to fit a map to few peoples liking instead of the masses liking?
to prevent an upcoming fire: nevertheless Im trying to create an environment that most people will like. but every player saying stuff like "oh my god, whats that sound? remove it!", "you cant properly leap through the map" (he meant PERMANENT leaping which is not even possible on any official ns map) or asking questions about why you dont added easy siege positions, lazy jp friendly airducts... endless list. personally Im pretty satisfied with the amount of freshly released maps and they all became pretty good. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If someone in a clan could get a game going on my old old ns map ns_gory, and then send feedback on layout and bugs I'd be happy to re-work some areas for some competitive play. I'm not going to totally re-design it or make the new areas much more visually enhanced, as I can't be bothered with it that much.
The layout may need quite a bit of work (especially the top part) although I'd be happy to do that if anyone thinks it has potential. Oh and I can correct floating stairs.
Comments
I personally think that there should be a clear distinction between the mapping guidelines for Competitive and Public Server play. When making a map it's incredibly difficult to make it balanced <b>and</b> keep the atmosphere; to to please a pubber <b>and</b> a clan player. Some maps are accepted by both parties, but I can think of few maps that suit one type perfectly.
It this fact that has prompted me to think about writing up some clear guidelines for Competitive play. Some of these guidelines may be simple extensions to the general Mapping Guidelines, but others will be in complete contrast. For me the aforementioned two types of NSPlayer (or two types of mentality if you will) dictate to a mapper how his map will be received. It is no coincidence that certain maps, while being praised by casual gamers across the NS community, are loathed by the competitive scene and enjoy very little play by this collective.
I would like to point out that it is by no means the fault of the mapper, constantly trying to pander to the respective needs of the two very different sides of the same coin. A map that maintains excellent visual standards in architecture, enviromental physics and lighting while also keeping the performance-related gameplay well above tolerance levels simply can't be done within the constraints of the HL engine and the NS coding. We need to change the way we think about this.
We need to imagine that we're designing clothes for the sport-star and the fashionable businessman. One wants superb performance, 100% of the time. The other wants his suit to fit well and look the part. Certain sports apparel companies may try to do fashion and on almost every occasion they fail. On the other hand when was the last time you saw Andre Agassi wearing LaCoste tennis shoes.
A mapper must be very clear on what they are going to make before they start making it. They must ask themselves if it will be a Combat or a Classic map? a normal or a funmap? -and I also suggest- a Public or Competitive map?
[Edit: Feb 9th] I've come to the first major disagreement with the existing mapping guidelines, and by major I mean quite major.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I say maybe 15 seconds to walk to each hive from marine start.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->The Mapping Guidelines advise a MINIMUM of 30 seconds from MS to each Hive to "ensure that maps aren't scouted by marine players within the first five minutes of a match, making the game more interesting". If I have more input from other clanplayers to lower this to 15 seconds then I'll include it in the Competitive Mapping Guidelines.
[And another]
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->keep the marine side quiet (good for marines to hear the alien growls and squeals) then create [things] that drone out voice communication and scare the marines as they get farther away<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Would this still be wanted by the Competitive community? I'd guess if the Alien areas were really noisy enough to drown out Marine comms, the comp. players would just use "stopsound" or simply have a multitude of binds at their disposal. I'd like some comp players imput on this.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->keep the marine side quiet (good for marines to hear the alien growls and squeals) then create [things] that drone out voice communication and scare the marines as they get farther away<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Would this still be wanted by the Competitive community? I'd guess if the Alien areas were really noisy enough to drown out Marine comms, the comp. players would just use "stopsound" or simply have a multitude of binds at their disposal. I'd like some comp players imput on this. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
mp3 sounds are your friend <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
maybe some players used to stopsound may feel kinda fooled...
but I dont spend weeks on adding, fixing and remixing soundfiles just to see any idiot "cheats" this atmospheric element off. thats very imporatant in areas where you MUSNT hear anything exept the enviromental sounds.
we got pretty much offtopic I think....
btw: did I missed something? what exactly does "Cal" mean o_0
CAL stands for <a href='http://www.caleague.com/' target='_blank'>Cyberathlete Amateur League</a>. I'm talking about making a new set of mapping guidelines specifically for <b>competitive play</b>. Competitive players play the maps so much and focus all of their efforts on their performance. Due to this most of them honestly don't notice most of the lovely sounds and particle systems that we put into our maps to give them an authentic mood and ambience (except when it starts affecting their performance).
P.S. ...and Grav you can just rename a new file (five seconds of silence) to the same name as the original MP3 and paste it into the right folder. Most competitors will do anything to get the upper hand.
I once decided to play around with this in Counter-Strike, changing the hostage "let's get outta here" sound to the "base siren" from TFC (only about 5 times louder). In theory I just wanted to test it out but it improved my game so much<span style='color:orange'>*</span> that I left it in until the new version deleted it. Most competitive players are the same, if they find anything that gives them the upper hand they'll put their morals to one side and stick with it until it's forceably removed for them.
<span style='color:orange'>*</span> For example I could hear hostages being rescued from <b>outside</b> the warehouse on cs_assault, meaning that I was free to go on the offensive as Terrorist when I knew there was only one or two CTs left, and that I new that my teammate was in the hostage room half a second before he got killed, automatically telling me that the last Terrorist was camped up in there.
P.S. Yes I am ashamed.
P.P.S. It was only in the next version of CS that I started playing for a clan, and no I didn't use it for clan matches.
never heared about it...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->P.S. ...and Grav you can just rename a new file (five seconds of silence) to the same name as the original MP3 and paste it into the right folder.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
doesnt consistency work with mp3 files?
thats why we start using mp3´s. all we can do to prevent "cheating" will be done.
what is "cheating"
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
CAL is the american ns league. competetive play, yeah. and yes mp_consistency is on, but that doesnt mean its good or smart to fill the map with random sounds and mp3's. because then it propably wont get played which is a shame especially if the map is otherwise very nice. music and random ambient sounds possess no atmospheric value if youve played this game enough.
edit: oh, and this
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->thats very imporatant in areas where you MUSNT hear anything exept the enviromental sounds.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
is just plain wrong. gameplay > atmosphere. especially in maps.
and doesnt this especially mean the competetive community, for are they not the ones that care about this game the most? (ok, except devs)
and doesnt this especially mean the competetive community, for are they not the ones that care about this game the most? (ok, except devs) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
exept the MAPPERS?
everyone is free to play maps he wants to play. but I cant hear this "a box without lighting and atmosphere will do it in competative play"-excuse anymore. you play your WARS, right? so why should there anything war related missing?
dust, noise, obstacles, messed up lights (areas that are too dark and areas you go blind at), background fight sounds etc.? and believe it or not: there are people out there playing ns just because that!
Up for debate at the moment are the specifications that Hive Rooms should have.
and doesnt this especially mean the competetive community, for are they not the ones that care about this game the most? (ok, except devs) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
exept the MAPPERS?
everyone is free to play maps he wants to play. but I cant hear this "a box without lighting and atmosphere will do it in competative play"-excuse anymore. you play your WARS, right? so why should there anything war related missing?
dust, noise, obstacles, messed up lights (areas that are too dark and areas you go blind at), background fight sounds etc.? and believe it or not: there are people out there playing ns just because that! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
stuff like that doesnt really fit in an ns map :o
and youre wrong, anyways. this isnt a war this is a game, and it has to be fun to play. huge, laggy particle systems, pitch-black areas and loud ambient noises take away from the fun and playability factor. its really simple as that. your own map is a nice balance between dark and bright, and it has very good architecture too so im not really pointing any map critique towards you =/
and that last sentence confuses me a bit...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->and believe it or not: there are people out there playing ns just because that!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
really? who?
it was an example of what effects could be used to make a map more atmospheric. EXAMPLE! thats doesnt mean I would like to play a map thats completely hostile to players.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->and youre wrong, anyways. this isnt a war this is a game, and it has to be fun to play. huge, laggy particle systems, pitch-black areas and loud ambient noises take away from the fun and playability factor.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I meant war like in "lets have a war." (clan statement) thats why I quoted the term. and thats a cause of laughter every time I hear it <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->your own map is a nice balance between dark and bright, and it has very good architecture too so im not really pointing any map critique towards you =/<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
hopefully we both know the same map <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> thats why Im bothering with this because I realized a huge gap between what mappers like to do and what competative players want to see.
ever since I got the statement "I dont like the doors, they block movement." from a clanplayer I nearly banned him from playtesting. because doors are a tactical element. you dont have any problems with them when you know how to move RIGHT. another cause had been the trigger. it was set so any marine entering the area of it would cause the door to open early enough so marines can get trough without waittime. same with skulks, even able to jump through it. so simple answer: strafejump. this people are no help for playtesting.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->and believe it or not: there are people out there playing ns just because that!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
atmosphere like it said abouve. no offense but why should I care to fit a map to few peoples liking instead of the masses liking?
to prevent an upcoming fire: nevertheless Im trying to create an environment that most people will like. but every player saying stuff like "oh my god, whats that sound? remove it!", "you cant properly leap through the map" (he meant PERMANENT leaping which is not even possible on any official ns map) or asking questions about why you dont added easy siege positions, lazy jp friendly airducts... endless list. personally Im pretty satisfied with the amount of freshly released maps and they all became pretty good. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The layout may need quite a bit of work (especially the top part) although I'd be happy to do that if anyone thinks it has potential. Oh and I can correct floating stairs.
URLs:
<a href='http://jdleveldesign.hlgaming.com/downloads/ns_glory_beta1.zip' target='_blank'>http://jdleveldesign.hlgaming.com/download...glory_beta1.zip</a>
<a href='http://www.nssource.co.uk/content.php?content=mapdatabase/downloadmap.php&mapid=11' target='_blank'>http://www.nssource.co.uk/content.php?cont...ap.php&mapid=11</a>