yeh if a few marines got into my hive and starts spawncamping, i'd definately blame myself and the team, for not defending it properly(just a few oc's will do the trick).
but what if were talking early early game, aliens don't have the Res to waste on OCs.
if some aliens get into MS at beggining of game then the IP goes down and aliens win
if marines get into hive early on they just kill the skulks for a while because they can't kill the hive , then if they do die aliens are so far behind that they don't have a chance at winning and have to suffer threw the rest of the game trying to catch up
thats how it usually goes in my expierences at least
Or the team quickly takes the rines down, the rine had an unproductive life in which the aliens are now closer to winning the game because that rine accomplished nothing while taking the risk to attempt to start hive pressure.
but the thing is, spawn camping doesn't make you lose, it drags the game out while you fall farther and farther behind, and then 30 minutes later you lose
Spawncamping's legitimacy is decided by the server's admins. Simple as that. If they don't want you to spawncamp (which is the right decision in my opinion), then simpy don't. Besides, it makes for a very boring game to the team that is being spawncamped. Can't you win any other way?
exactly.... its like NS is going threw a Civil war... the Non spawm camping server (like the north) need to go over to the spawn camping server (like the south) and teach them a lesson or to!
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 13 2005, 11:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 13 2005, 11:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> but the thing is, spawn camping doesn't make you lose, it drags the game out while you fall farther and farther behind, and then 30 minutes later you lose <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You could say the same thing about destroying RTs or the AA or a hive or chambers.
Maybe marines should be banned when they continue to fight after the third hive finishes. The game's pretty much over and they're just prolonging the game. The aliens should be banned if they don't give up after 2 hives are locked down.
<!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Feb 14 2005, 12:20 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Feb 14 2005, 12:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 13 2005, 11:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 13 2005, 11:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> but the thing is, spawn camping doesn't make you lose, it drags the game out while you fall farther and farther behind, and then 30 minutes later you lose <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You could say the same thing about destroying RTs or the AA or a hive or chambers.
Maybe marines should be banned when they continue to fight after the third hive finishes. The game's pretty much over and they're just prolonging the game. The aliens should be banned if they don't give up after 2 hives are locked down. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> were not talking about comebacks
I think you should fight till your dying breath, but I'm talking bout people not finishing you off and just sitting there racking in kills so they can get a good screen shot of their impressive score
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 14 2005, 12:23 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 14 2005, 12:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Feb 14 2005, 12:20 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Feb 14 2005, 12:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 13 2005, 11:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 13 2005, 11:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> but the thing is, spawn camping doesn't make you lose, it drags the game out while you fall farther and farther behind, and then 30 minutes later you lose <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You could say the same thing about destroying RTs or the AA or a hive or chambers.
Maybe marines should be banned when they continue to fight after the third hive finishes. The game's pretty much over and they're just prolonging the game. The aliens should be banned if they don't give up after 2 hives are locked down. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> were not talking about comebacks
I think you should fight till your dying breath, but I'm talking bout people not finishing you off and just sitting there racking in kills so they can get a good screen shot of their impressive score <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I think everyone agrees with you that spawncamping after the game is over is bad and that server admins should take appropriate actions with people like that.
Spawncamping in the middle of the game is most definately not "racking in kills so they can get a good screen shot of their impressive score".
<!--QuoteBegin-Thats Enough+Feb 14 2005, 12:08 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Thats Enough @ Feb 14 2005, 12:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Spawncamping will always be an issue... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It doesn't have to be an issue if anal servers put the spawn invul plug-in on. If servers **** about spawn camping *cough* LM *cough* they need to stop crying about it and just put the plug-in on. It's really that simple. Then when people go to a server that has that plug-in inabled, they can leave if they so desire before they have to listen to admins and other players whine about it.
In any case, I wish none of the game-altering plugins existed for NS. They just cater to lower-tier players who would whine the same way they do about the AWP in counter-strike.
Avenger-X, seriously, you are the epitome of a pub player. Your analogies are false. You're a hypocrite. You don't listen to what other people say, and for that, you're an incredibly short-sighted person who needs to wake up and listen to other people.
We've told you that if you're spawn camping to prolong the game, that's where admin intervention should occur. If they're doing it to end the game faster, then it's definitely legitimate.
Look, if I were in charge of an army, and a few soldiers in the enemy camp snuck over and killed my soldiers in their sleep, that's MY FAULT, not my soldiers, not the enemy's. I should have posted sentries, or had rotating shifts of those who were awake and those who were not.
Simple fact of the matter is....if you let the enemy get in your base, you deserve the wrath of a non-existent god to come down on you.
Well on my server if you spawn camp without finishing a hive/cc off so in other words killing aliens/marines as they spawn rather than killing hive/cc then your banned simple as i will not tolerate people who spoil a good game by spawn camping!
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 14 2005, 01:23 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 14 2005, 01:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Feb 14 2005, 12:20 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Feb 14 2005, 12:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 13 2005, 11:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 13 2005, 11:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> but the thing is, spawn camping doesn't make you lose, it drags the game out while you fall farther and farther behind, and then 30 minutes later you lose <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You could say the same thing about destroying RTs or the AA or a hive or chambers.
Maybe marines should be banned when they continue to fight after the third hive finishes. The game's pretty much over and they're just prolonging the game. The aliens should be banned if they don't give up after 2 hives are locked down. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> were not talking about comebacks
I think you should fight till your dying breath, but I'm talking bout people not finishing you off and just sitting there racking in kills so they can get a good screen shot of their impressive score <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Are you sure you're talking about that? Because earlier you kept whining that killing the enemy team as it respawn to help your team was bad.
In NS_ games, the goal is for your team to win? Right? Killing the enemy as it arrive on the battlefield is good then? It helps you win? Right?
NOW, if you're really talking about the <b>end game</b>, where the <i>whole</i> enemy team just sits there in front of the hive, not shooting at it, spawnkilling, and it's the only hive left, and do that for a long time, THEN I can understand. But that doesn't happen often.
Also, hah, calling chimpzealot a spawnkiller, it shows how much you know the community.
<!--QuoteBegin-TheJim+Feb 14 2005, 08:30 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TheJim @ Feb 14 2005, 08:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well on my server if you spawn camp without finishing a hive/cc off so in other words killing aliens/marines as they spawn rather than killing hive/cc then your banned simple as i will not tolerate people who spoil a good game by spawn camping! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You go guy! I won't normally ban them though, as I have to much fun using slap/slay/beat/gag/bury/shutup/llama/pig. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
You have to realise there are actually two different arguments here. Suppresion is first, where a marine enters the hive, and shoots as many skulks as he can to cause them to be effectively 2 or 3 men down in the early-mid game. This (imo) is a completely valid tactic, and it is <b>not the fault of the marine</b>. Your teammates still living shoud be reacting to this potentially game-costing strategy and moving to the hive en masse to get the hive fully functional.
To use an RTS analogy, it's much the same as a single Tier one unit in your base, destroying your workers, and you doing <b>nothing about it</b>. The fault is not with that Tier one unit, it is yours as a team to prevent him continuing and correct the mistake of allowing him to get there in the first place.
Next we have killing for the sake of killing, usually at end-game. This is just deplorable CS-public-mentality gaming, giving some angsty fool an esteem boost just so he can feel he 'owned' someone. It's the same mentality that, after an early sucessful base rush feels it's clever to pull back & let them build. You're not playing a game for a challenege, you're playing to dominate someone that you now know <b>cannot</b> challenge you. That is what should be punishable by admins, because the two can't really be differentiated by coding in the game.
Marines are the attackers and they're trying to kill the alien hive. Its kinda difficult do that if once you've actually managed fight your way into the hive and in this therotical situation killed every alien they all respawn as fresh onos/fades. Theres also the same arguement as NS. If a reasonable force of marines has managed to kill every alien and get into the hive then you deserve to lose.
Besides spawning as skulks is a direct result of feedback from players so aliens could swap life forms.
<!--QuoteBegin-Jane+Feb 14 2005, 07:05 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jane @ Feb 14 2005, 07:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Thats Enough+Feb 14 2005, 12:08 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Thats Enough @ Feb 14 2005, 12:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Spawncamping will always be an issue... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It doesn't have to be an issue if anal servers put the spawn invul plug-in on. If servers **** about spawn camping *cough* LM *cough* they need to stop crying about it and just put the plug-in on. It's really that simple. Then when people go to a server that has that plug-in inabled, they can leave if they so desire before they have to listen to admins and other players whine about it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> How come it is ok for you to tell other people that they whine, but when I do it, its regarded as immature?
BACK on topic.
Spawn camping is a valid tactic. If it wasn't, the devs would take steps to have it removed from the game (which they haven't). If you restrict players on what they are supposed to do in game (short of cheating) then what is to come next? Banning people because they can eliminate all/most of the team on their own? (oh wait..)
Also, how is spawn camping defined? Does the person have to be in the hive? Or does camping a location outside of the hive (i.e. halls in satcomm)? How long must the alien live before the marine can open fire? Is supression of the outside of the hive illegal? If so what is a viable option for an offensive if spawn camping is illegal. If a skulk is spawn killed by siege, should the commander be kicked? What if the marine in the hive is killing chambers, does he not have the right to defend himself?
The problem with anti-spawn camp servers without plugins is that they can enforce it anyway they want for any amount of specific members. Typically those with status in the community (i.e. Reserve Slot, or the Admin himself/herself) can use their own loose interpretation of what spawn camping is, and let somethings that Other people (such as competitive players) get banned for. The selective enforcement on the rule based on social status is what the problem is.
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
All those people who don't like spawn-camping (the tactical kind) can just head off to one of those servers with that plug-in and stay there. Problem solved. If they don't like how a server is handling the sapwn camp "problem" then they can leave. Simple as that. Similarly if someone wants to spawn camp but can't because of an admin, he can leave and find a server with a better-educated admin.
I'd like to be able to just say "Spawn camping is legit. Call a WAAHMBULANCE"
BUT...
I have been in a situation many many times where team mates have said to me "Don't kill the hive/cc! Let's play with them!" or, "Don't finish it, this is fun!" In cases like this, where an entire team is camping an entire other team, and deliberately not attacking the hive/cc, then I have a serious problem.
Let's look at this another way...
Is it fair to be pistoled in 1s by a marine you never saw? Is it fair to have a marine knife your onos egg as you gestate? Is it fair to drop silenced from the ceiling onto a marine and chew his head off? Yes, Yes, and Yes. Getting killed with little to no chance to avoid it is not in itself an unfair thing. Spawn-camping is *usually* the same. One or two marines\aliens getting into a base, and keeping the other team busy until help arrives to finish the whole thing off.
The bad kind of spawn-camping is just anti-social behavior, and needs to be dealt with in the same way as a commander recycling everything mid-game, or a skulk biting the only hive to death. In other words, it needs to be dealt with by server admin, and not by changing the way the game works.
<!--QuoteBegin-YolkFolk+Feb 14 2005, 10:34 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (YolkFolk @ Feb 14 2005, 10:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The bad kind of spawn-camping is just anti-social behavior, and needs to be dealt with in the same way as a commander recycling everything mid-game, or a skulk biting the only hive to death. In other words, it needs to be dealt with by server admin, and not by changing the way the game works. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well put mate, I agree 110%! <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
A couple of observations, devour is basically the same thing as spawn camping. Both are preventable and both result from not staying in a group and serve the same purpose of taking players out of the game.
People will allways complain that any strategy that works, is lame, they will shout and kick and scream yet they use the same strategies themselves. If something is possible in the game and isn't an exploit or purposefully intended to make the game less fun for someone without any positive benefits it's a valid tactic. It's up for the game designers to update their game to try and fix gameplay.
The following are generally considered lame by a lot of the players in pubs:
Grenade launchers being used against aliens, particullarilly skulks.
Spawn camping on both aliens and marines, using devour to kill a lone marine of no considerable threat(e.g. vanilla marine).
Using shotguns against skulks.
Using sieges(even if they are clearly needed and just rushing the hive would most likely fail).
Using command chairs as a barrier to slow down onos.
Using cloak.
Using jet packs to build stuff in weird places where marines usually don't reach(e.g. that 'red room' from which you can siege viaduct hive).
IP rushing.
Turret farming.
Sitting in vents and using umbra and spores as a lerk.
Bunny hopping.
Using air acceleration to stop in mid air, turn in mid air or generally do anything except follow a parabola while leaping or blinking.
What is left? The only honorable thing one could do would be to tickle each other with feathers until one team gives up according to your average ns player.
<!--QuoteBegin-Soylent green+Feb 14 2005, 12:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Soylent green @ Feb 14 2005, 12:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If something is possible in the game and isn't an exploit or purposefully intended to make the game less fun for someone without any positive benefits it's a valid tactic. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It may be a "valid tactic", but it's still up to the discretion of the server ops if they want to limit this if the main goal of the team is being sidetracked by one player's efforts re: abuse.
Comments
if a few marines got into my hive and starts spawncamping, i'd definately blame myself and the team, for not defending it properly(just a few oc's will do the trick).
if some aliens get into MS at beggining of game then the IP goes down and aliens win
if marines get into hive early on they just kill the skulks for a while because they can't kill the hive , then if they do die aliens are so far behind that they don't have a chance at winning and have to suffer threw the rest of the game trying to catch up
thats how it usually goes in my expierences at least
if you or your team werent intercepting em, i guess nothing can stop em from spawncamping your hive
If it's getting bad, just F4.
best thing to do is just go into console, type quit, and chill out for a bit.
If a game ever gets to a point wher eyou get upset and angry, it's not fun anymore... so why play it?
Can't you win any other way?
You could say the same thing about destroying RTs or the AA or a hive or chambers.
Maybe marines should be banned when they continue to fight after the third hive finishes. The game's pretty much over and they're just prolonging the game. The aliens should be banned if they don't give up after 2 hives are locked down.
You could say the same thing about destroying RTs or the AA or a hive or chambers.
Maybe marines should be banned when they continue to fight after the third hive finishes. The game's pretty much over and they're just prolonging the game. The aliens should be banned if they don't give up after 2 hives are locked down. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
were not talking about comebacks
I think you should fight till your dying breath, but I'm talking bout people not finishing you off and just sitting there racking in kills so they can get a good screen shot of their impressive score
You could say the same thing about destroying RTs or the AA or a hive or chambers.
Maybe marines should be banned when they continue to fight after the third hive finishes. The game's pretty much over and they're just prolonging the game. The aliens should be banned if they don't give up after 2 hives are locked down. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
were not talking about comebacks
I think you should fight till your dying breath, but I'm talking bout people not finishing you off and just sitting there racking in kills so they can get a good screen shot of their impressive score <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think everyone agrees with you that spawncamping after the game is over is bad and that server admins should take appropriate actions with people like that.
Spawncamping in the middle of the game is most definately not "racking in kills so they can get a good screen shot of their impressive score".
It doesn't have to be an issue if anal servers put the spawn invul plug-in on. If servers **** about spawn camping *cough* LM *cough* they need to stop crying about it and just put the plug-in on. It's really that simple. Then when people go to a server that has that plug-in inabled, they can leave if they so desire before they have to listen to admins and other players whine about it.
In any case, I wish none of the game-altering plugins existed for NS. They just cater to lower-tier players who would whine the same way they do about the AWP in counter-strike.
Avenger-X, seriously, you are the epitome of a pub player. Your analogies are false. You're a hypocrite. You don't listen to what other people say, and for that, you're an incredibly short-sighted person who needs to wake up and listen to other people.
We've told you that if you're spawn camping to prolong the game, that's where admin intervention should occur. If they're doing it to end the game faster, then it's definitely legitimate.
Look, if I were in charge of an army, and a few soldiers in the enemy camp snuck over and killed my soldiers in their sleep, that's MY FAULT, not my soldiers, not the enemy's. I should have posted sentries, or had rotating shifts of those who were awake and those who were not.
Simple fact of the matter is....if you let the enemy get in your base, you deserve the wrath of a non-existent god to come down on you.
You could say the same thing about destroying RTs or the AA or a hive or chambers.
Maybe marines should be banned when they continue to fight after the third hive finishes. The game's pretty much over and they're just prolonging the game. The aliens should be banned if they don't give up after 2 hives are locked down. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
were not talking about comebacks
I think you should fight till your dying breath, but I'm talking bout people not finishing you off and just sitting there racking in kills so they can get a good screen shot of their impressive score <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you sure you're talking about that? Because earlier you kept whining that killing the enemy team as it respawn to help your team was bad.
In NS_ games, the goal is for your team to win? Right? Killing the enemy as it arrive on the battlefield is good then? It helps you win? Right?
NOW, if you're really talking about the <b>end game</b>, where the <i>whole</i> enemy team just sits there in front of the hive, not shooting at it, spawnkilling, and it's the only hive left, and do that for a long time, THEN I can understand. But that doesn't happen often.
Also, hah, calling chimpzealot a spawnkiller, it shows how much you know the community.
You go guy! I won't normally ban them though, as I have to much fun using slap/slay/beat/gag/bury/shutup/llama/pig. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
To use an RTS analogy, it's much the same as a single Tier one unit in your base, destroying your workers, and you doing <b>nothing about it</b>. The fault is not with that Tier one unit, it is yours as a team to prevent him continuing and correct the mistake of allowing him to get there in the first place.
Next we have killing for the sake of killing, usually at end-game. This is just deplorable CS-public-mentality gaming, giving some angsty fool an esteem boost just so he can feel he 'owned' someone. It's the same mentality that, after an early sucessful base rush feels it's clever to pull back & let them build. You're not playing a game for a challenege, you're playing to dominate someone that you now know <b>cannot</b> challenge you. That is what should be punishable by admins, because the two can't really be differentiated by coding in the game.
- Shockwave
Level 10 Spawning with JP/HMG > Level 10 Spawning as skulk.
Either balance it, or knock it off.
(IMO)
Level 10 Spawning with JP/HMG > Level 10 Spawning as skulk.
Either balance it, or knock it off.
(IMO) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nah.
Marines are the attackers and they're trying to kill the alien hive. Its kinda difficult do that if once you've actually managed fight your way into the hive and in this therotical situation killed every alien they all respawn as fresh onos/fades. Theres also the same arguement as NS. If a reasonable force of marines has managed to kill every alien and get into the hive then you deserve to lose.
Besides spawning as skulks is a direct result of feedback from players so aliens could swap life forms.
It doesn't have to be an issue if anal servers put the spawn invul plug-in on. If servers **** about spawn camping *cough* LM *cough* they need to stop crying about it and just put the plug-in on. It's really that simple. Then when people go to a server that has that plug-in inabled, they can leave if they so desire before they have to listen to admins and other players whine about it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
How come it is ok for you to tell other people that they whine, but when I do it, its regarded as immature?
BACK on topic.
Spawn camping is a valid tactic. If it wasn't, the devs would take steps to have it removed from the game (which they haven't). If you restrict players on what they are supposed to do in game (short of cheating) then what is to come next? Banning people because they can eliminate all/most of the team on their own? (oh wait..)
Also, how is spawn camping defined? Does the person have to be in the hive? Or does camping a location outside of the hive (i.e. halls in satcomm)? How long must the alien live before the marine can open fire? Is supression of the outside of the hive illegal? If so what is a viable option for an offensive if spawn camping is illegal. If a skulk is spawn killed by siege, should the commander be kicked? What if the marine in the hive is killing chambers, does he not have the right to defend himself?
The problem with anti-spawn camp servers without plugins is that they can enforce it anyway they want for any amount of specific members. Typically those with status in the community (i.e. Reserve Slot, or the Admin himself/herself) can use their own loose interpretation of what spawn camping is, and let somethings that Other people (such as competitive players) get banned for. The selective enforcement on the rule based on social status is what the problem is.
Flame away away!
BUT...
I have been in a situation many many times where team mates have said to me "Don't kill the hive/cc! Let's play with them!" or, "Don't finish it, this is fun!" In cases like this, where an entire team is camping an entire other team, and deliberately not attacking the hive/cc, then I have a serious problem.
Let's look at this another way...
Is it fair to be pistoled in 1s by a marine you never saw? Is it fair to have a marine knife your onos egg as you gestate? Is it fair to drop silenced from the ceiling onto a marine and chew his head off? Yes, Yes, and Yes. Getting killed with little to no chance to avoid it is not in itself an unfair thing. Spawn-camping is *usually* the same. One or two marines\aliens getting into a base, and keeping the other team busy until help arrives to finish the whole thing off.
The bad kind of spawn-camping is just anti-social behavior, and needs to be dealt with in the same way as a commander recycling everything mid-game, or a skulk biting the only hive to death. In other words, it needs to be dealt with by server admin, and not by changing the way the game works.
Well put mate, I agree 110%! <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
People will allways complain that any strategy that works, is lame, they will shout and kick and scream yet they use the same strategies themselves. If something is possible in the game and isn't an exploit or purposefully intended to make the game less fun for someone without any positive benefits it's a valid tactic. It's up for the game designers to update their game to try and fix gameplay.
The following are generally considered lame by a lot of the players in pubs:
Grenade launchers being used against aliens, particullarilly skulks.
Spawn camping on both aliens and marines, using devour to kill a lone marine of no considerable threat(e.g. vanilla marine).
Using shotguns against skulks.
Using sieges(even if they are clearly needed and just rushing the hive would most likely fail).
Using command chairs as a barrier to slow down onos.
Using cloak.
Using jet packs to build stuff in weird places where marines usually don't reach(e.g. that 'red room' from which you can siege viaduct hive).
IP rushing.
Turret farming.
Sitting in vents and using umbra and spores as a lerk.
Bunny hopping.
Using air acceleration to stop in mid air, turn in mid air or generally do anything except follow a parabola while leaping or blinking.
What is left? The only honorable thing one could do would be to tickle each other with feathers until one team gives up according to your average ns player.
It may be a "valid tactic", but it's still up to the discretion of the server ops if they want to limit this if the main goal of the team is being sidetracked by one player's efforts re: abuse.