basically it's true that combat is slowly , I say again slowly taking over the game. Teamplay is gone and most of the players I saw within the last weeks are really trying to play this game like CS!! (on an ns map) I feel a little bit fooled <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Hopefully the marines need more teamplay as TyrNemesis promised us, because I don't wanna see another cool MOD I really like and which is my fav. one become destroyed by kids!
I mean when I started playing Natural Selection I just quit with playing CS for about 1 year (because of steam and the community where most of them where cheaters and kids). and in Natural Selection I found a MOD I really like and makes me happy reminding the good old days back in Half Life (1998) and the eventful years after it's release. I also felt really nice with playing it because ppl weren't acting like the ones in CS, they were friendly and nice and didn't scream things like "b0000n" or "l4m0r" or offended other players that much.
but then I saw many CS players coming over to play NS and they totally destroyed the game (I don't think that just all CS players are guilty but a big part of them). You can see the result today:
- adminds switching to combat maps when the automatic mapcycle tool switched to an NS map and everybody is screaming "NOOO PLZ NO NS MAPS!"
- players don't act like a team on public servers like it was since back then and like it's meant to be - it's very rare that you have good games on a public server and I only know 3 good german servers where I can play on
- NS was forced to equip most of their servers with anti cheat tools, to prevent against cheaters (was this necessary back in 2.0 =? I don't think so)
- players are starting to use scripts for everything...pistol scripts,bunnyhop scripts and so on..I don't have anything against commander scripts with fast keys and that stuff but I can't stand out players who're just scripting a thing I trained for a long time back in Half Life.
I think this is enough. I really don't wanna offend sb in here because you are a part of the community I like and I enjoy beeing a part of. This is my personal opinion about the changes of NS.
I don't use any scripts and I don't play on servers with anti cheat tools I have to dl (exept the VAC). I don't see why I should download some anti cheat tool just to prevent against cheaters. So I have a big disadvantage. I can only play on a few servers where I know everybody and I can definitely say that they don't cheat..even if they're better than me. but I can live with that and I'll be straight against those methods which make NS slowly become like CS.
<!--QuoteBegin-xtremecore+Mar 2 2005, 09:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (xtremecore @ Mar 2 2005, 09:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> what people dont know is that a skilled alien is 100 times more lethal than any skilled marine =x <- TRUTH.ORG <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> depends on what youre wielding
<!--QuoteBegin-Lt Realness+Mar 2 2005, 09:20 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lt Realness @ Mar 2 2005, 09:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> - players are starting to use scripts for everything...pistol scripts,bunnyhop scripts and so on..I don't have anything against commander scripts with fast keys and that stuff but I can't stand out players who're just scripting a thing I trained for a long time back in Half Life. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Mind if I ask what you're talking about? What 'commander scripts'? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
uhm I mean short keys like the standard "e" "d" etc. stuff for commanders bindet in another way and things like that. I don't use such things btw <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I don´t get your point. qwer,asdf,yxcv are normal commander hotkeys like in every other RTS game, and you can change them freely in the Options, as far as I know. :/
<!--QuoteBegin-daidalos+Mar 2 2005, 03:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (daidalos @ Mar 2 2005, 03:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I don´t get your point. qwer,asdf,yxcv are normal commander hotkeys like in every other RTS game, and you can change them freely in the Options, as far as I know. :/ <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> They are all of the above, and considered essential by good commanders everywhere.
<!--QuoteBegin-DarkFrost+Mar 2 2005, 04:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkFrost @ Mar 2 2005, 04:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> med and ammo scripts perhaps? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> To my knowledge, they can't be done - I don't believe there is a 'drop ammo/medpack' impulse.
<!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Mar 2 2005, 12:07 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Mar 2 2005, 12:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You know, aliens are more difficult to play initially because most everyone's used to traditional fps shooter games - namely marine gameplay - but it really doesn't take that much practice to get good at skulking. Good enough to have at least a 50-50 chance against lone marines, I'd say. It's people who give up on playing aliens and always rush to the "Join Marine" side that never figure out how to play as a skulk well, because they never practice. If you're not willing to devote time to figuring out how to play the damn game, how can you expect anyone to take your whining seriously?
To say that the entire game revolves around nadespamming proves one thing to me: you play too much Combat. GLs rarely show up in Classic games, and when they do they NEVER show up in numbers capable of laying down blankets of explosions like they do in Combat games.
And spawncamping's a part of winning the game. To win as aliens you have to spawncamp. To win as marines you have to spawncamp (unless you siege, but then people cry about that <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) If you're being spawncamped, it's because you did something wrong. You died, you let the marine in your hive, and no one's getting back to the hive to get him out. That's not the game's fault, it's your fault.
Bottom-line: you get out of the game what you put into the game. This goes for every NSPlayer out there; Natural Selection can be one of the greatest games you've ever played if you would shut up your whining and just try to learn it. You're going to get owned. Viciously. Repeatedly. But there is no IQ barrier here; there's no secret formula that magically made the people that are killing you over and over again better than you. They've just played the game longer than you. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I play combat exclusively at this point because, quite frankly, the NS games almost always suck. They are too short and far too one-sided, almost always in favor of the marines. You know which team will win within the first five minutes, and then it takes 15 more of getting killed incessantly for the other team to actually win. What's the point of playing after those first five minutes? It's not even remotely fun because there's virtually no way to make a comeback - even if you skirt the opponents' defenses, find all their out-of-the-way RTs, and destroy all of them. It still does nothing. An edge in the first five minutes is an edge for the whole game.
And yes, spawncamping is a part of the game - but it is WAY more easy to do as a marine than it is as an alien. You need at least 30-40% of the alien team at the marine's base, all of them jacked up as the very expensive fade or onos units (except for perhaps one lerk), and with a fortification of defense / possibly movement or sensory chambers nearby for them to run to for healing to even THINK about successfully spawncamping. The marines, on the other hand, pretty much only need two grenadiers along with two supporting HMGs or even regular machine guns to completely and totally dominate a hive and kill every alien before they even spawn. They stand in the safety of the adjoining corridor and send in explosive death with relative ease. A single grenadier can also destroy an entire room full of alien OT / DTs with only half his stock of ammo. If the aliens are occupied elsewhere, they'll never even get a chance to react. The only area-effect weapon that they have is Spore, and that doesn't even begin to approach the structure- and starting-unit-crushing power that grenades have.
The reason you don't see it too often in NS games is the fact that the marines just have to build an electrified turret array, which is invincible unless you have, again, 4-5 fades and / or onoses and a bunch of defense around to heal them, to dominate a hive or a spawn point. All you need is that first thirty seconds of grenade fire to allow the marines to waltz right in and, unopposed (because all the aliens die without even a 3-second window after they spawn to orient themselves and chomp on the bad guys), build the turret factory that will do their job for them.
And as for secret formulas: there most definitely are formulas, and they're called scripts. Who needs skill, or who wants to even bother to aquire it, when people around use these?
If pointing out inequities in the game balance is "whining," then too bad. And I have taken the time to "figure out the damn game," jackass, because guess what? I always go random. And 90% of the time I'm playing as Aliens. And no matter how much I play, no matter how much I improve, there's nothing you can do once the marines get grenades. And who wants to sit through that crap long enough to gain complete mastery so that your skill eventually balances out the inequities and it becomes fun? It's a game, not a job. A certain amount of learning curve is expected just like any game, but with the cheap shots stacked all on one side of the chessboard, who wants to even bother? And if you're not even willing to consider that an imbalance exists, and your answer to everything is "learn how to play," how can you expect anyone to take <i>your</i> whining seriously?
-edit- i mean "daidalos" not DragonMech ..the broswer scrolled up while it was loading (damn ISDN) you guys need reading glasses..I said I have NOTHING against the standard commander hot keys..omg..read it more carefully before making stupid comments
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And as for secret formulas: there most definitely are formulas, and they're called scripts. Who needs skill, or who wants to even bother to aquire it, when people around use these?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Name one script that replaces skill.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->you guys need reading glasses..I said I have NOTHING against the standard commander hot keys..omg..read it more carefully before making stupid comments<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Then what were you talking about? "e" and "d" are standard commander interface keys, and those are what you listed as examples.
<!--QuoteBegin-DragonMech+Mar 2 2005, 05:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DragonMech @ Mar 2 2005, 05:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And as for secret formulas: there most definitely are formulas, and they're called scripts. Who needs skill, or who wants to even bother to aquire it, when people around use these?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Name one script that replaces skill. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> good point on that!! I can definitely tell you that those guys are nothing without their scripts!!
We've had a LAN party where the Staff checked each player for using scripts like bunnyhop,pistolscript or aiming script..and models and so on.. the staff had forbidden to use every single script.
those guys sucked for the whole time, but I knew a few of them from the inet and on the inet they ruled like hell so it was kinda abnormal or unreal. they had a better ping than mine (I have a standard ISDN ping), and they scripted everything. I can't believe that the filesize of the the config of 1 guy was nearly about 3mb!
so some of those guys really sucked at playing because they hadn't their scripts.
there is NO SCRIPT that can replace SKILl..exept you cheat with some tools like OGC (does that sill exist?)
<!--QuoteBegin-DragonMech+Mar 2 2005, 05:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DragonMech @ Mar 2 2005, 05:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And as for secret formulas: there most definitely are formulas, and they're called scripts. Who needs skill, or who wants to even bother to aquire it, when people around use these?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Name one script that replaces skill.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->you guys need reading glasses..I said I have NOTHING against the standard commander hot keys..omg..read it more carefully before making stupid comments<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Then what were you talking about? "e" and "d" are standard commander interface keys, and those are what you listed as examples. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> okay then cross that one out with the commander scripts..I'm not much into scripts because I totally hate them..I just thought there might be even a script for that so you don't have to do that much to support your mates as commander <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->We've had a LAN party where the Staff checked each player for using scripts like bunnyhop,pistolscript or aiming script..and models and so on..
those guys sucked for the whole time, but I knew a few of them from the inet and on the inet they ruled like hell so it was kinda abnormal or unreal. they had a better ping than mine (I have a standard ISDN ping), and they scripted everything. I can't believe that the filesize of the the config of 1 guy was nearly about 3mb!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Nadagast+Mar 2 2005, 05:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nadagast @ Mar 2 2005, 05:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->We've had a LAN party where the Staff checked each player for using scripts like bunnyhop,pistolscript or aiming script..and models and so on..
those guys sucked for the whole time, but I knew a few of them from the inet and on the inet they ruled like hell so it was kinda abnormal or unreal. they had a better ping than mine (I have a standard ISDN ping), and they scripted everything. I can't believe that the filesize of the the config of 1 guy was nearly about 3mb!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ROFL please tell me you're joking.
I wish I could make an aiming script! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> so what do you think is "auto aim" ?? i think it's scripted..
obuhNot Quite Smart at NSJoin Date: 2003-03-31Member: 15072Members, Constellation
I use exec $team_$mapname.cfg. For example, if I'm marine on veil, it will look like this : exec marines_ns_veil.cfg. With this I can start the script, and it totally plays the game for me. I can go make myself a tasty ham sandwich and come back when I owned everything on the map and won the game singlehandedly, thanks to my awesome scripts ! I can do nothing without them ! olol !
maybe that'll help you next time <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
obuhNot Quite Smart at NSJoin Date: 2003-03-31Member: 15072Members, Constellation
I prefer to type +aim in console. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->good point on that!! I can definitely tell you that those guys are nothing without their scripts!!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->They they wouldn't be anything with their scripts either. A script cannot aim for you, move for you, or think for you and those are the only things you need to play successfully. I'd *really* like to see demos of these guys owning it up and being owned. Chances are, they were playing on a server where the average skill was lower than there own. However, when they went to a LAN, they were facing much more skilled opponents. I'd also like the names of these 'guys.'
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I can't believe that the filesize of the the config of 1 guy was nearly about 3mb!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Now with that, you're either exagerating or lying. I have made a config full of NS scripts for general use that is several hundred lines long. Grand total size: 24 Kb. Even if they threw every bit of coding possible into their config, it would be far less than 3 Mb. How would you know the size of their configs anyway?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->so some of those guys really sucked at playing because they hadn't their scripts.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->You've said that before - how about some proof to back it up?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->there is NO SCRIPT that can replace SKILl..exept you cheat with some tools like OGC (does that sill exist?)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->A script is not a cheat. Do you honestly believe the devs would leave scripting as a server variable if they were hacks, instead of blocking them out completely? Or open a 'Scripting Discussion' forum? No - they wouldn't. A little comparison for you:
1) New NSPlayer marine vs. a skulk from [t]error. Both with vanilla configs. Skulk wins.
2) Same situation, except this time give the marine all the scripts he could possibly use. Skulk still wins.
3) Give the marine an aimbot and wallhack. Marine wins.
Please note the difference
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm not much into scripts because I totally hate them<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->How can you hate something without knowing about it? That's like saying I hate caviar. I've never had caviar, so how do I know if I'll like the taste of it? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> It's like when you said:<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> so what do you think is "auto aim" ?? i think it's scripted..<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You don't know what scripts can and can't do. Auto-aim is a hack plain and simple - no script can aim for you.
I have a serious challenge for you, Realness: <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=85961' target='_blank'>Get some scripts.</a> Use them for a month or two, and then make your own _informed_ decision on whether or not scripts are bad. I admit, I used to think like you do: I once thought scripts were evil in the extreme. Then I tried them, used them, and found that they weren't the 'advantage' I had once railed against.
<!--QuoteBegin-Lt Realness+Mar 2 2005, 05:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lt Realness @ Mar 2 2005, 05:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Nadagast+Mar 2 2005, 05:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nadagast @ Mar 2 2005, 05:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->We've had a LAN party where the Staff checked each player for using scripts like bunnyhop,pistolscript or aiming script..and models and so on..
those guys sucked for the whole time, but I knew a few of them from the inet and on the inet they ruled like hell so it was kinda abnormal or unreal. they had a better ping than mine (I have a standard ISDN ping), and they scripted everything. I can't believe that the filesize of the the config of 1 guy was nearly about 3mb!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ROFL please tell me you're joking.
I wish I could make an aiming script! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> so what do you think is "auto aim" ?? i think it's scripted.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No. It's definitely not. Cheats are totally 100% different from scripts...
*EDIT* I did have something here, but tbh, I cant be arsed with the same old discussion again, if you don't or do like scripts, NOONE cares, if you think they are cheating, who gives a damn? If you say they don't make up for skill, so what?
In other words, PLAY THE DAMN GAME REGARDLESS.
Don't **** Don't moan Don't call hax cause you die more than you'd like Just play the game and don't give a dogs bollock if the guy on the other team is even using a proper cheat, because in the end, its him that loses.
Christ almighty, no wonder disabaling voice comms is the thing to do these days.
like I said before. I am not much into scripts and I never wanna be! I heard from those scripts and I can imaginize that the future of it is wide open.
I won't download any scripts Dragon..sorry...not even for testing.
@Nadagast you think that cheats are different from scripts. well in that point you are right but I think that the cheats need to be coded and they need scripts to activate them.
btw it's really sad that we're discussing a thing like that! it would be better if we don't have to break our mind because of those things.
<!--QuoteBegin-Lt Realness+Mar 2 2005, 07:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lt Realness @ Mar 2 2005, 07:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> @Nadagast you think that cheats are different from scripts. well in that point you are right but I think that the cheats need to be coded and they need scripts to activate them. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Uhm what are you talking about? If by 'scripts to activate them', you mean a console command, sure. That's right. Of course you need a console command to move, fire, or do ANYTHING in NS. So I don't see what you're saying. So they don't need 'scripts' to activate them, they need 'binds'. Christ you need to educate yourself before spewing off this garbage.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think that the cheats need to be coded and they need scripts to activate them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->No they don't. A script and a cheat are completely unrelated. A cheat can work completely indepentently from the game (you would start it before booting up NS, and shut it down when you are done) or they can be triggered with a certain key (ie: you hit z and your aimbot kicks in. Release z to turn it off). Etc, etc.
<!--QuoteBegin-calthaer+Mar 2 2005, 05:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (calthaer @ Mar 2 2005, 05:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Mar 2 2005, 12:07 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Mar 2 2005, 12:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->-stuff on p.8-<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I play combat exclusively at this point because, quite frankly, the NS games almost always suck. They are too short and far too one-sided, almost always in favor of the marines. You know which team will win within the first five minutes, and then it takes 15 more of getting killed incessantly for the other team to actually win. What's the point of playing after those first five minutes? It's not even remotely fun because there's virtually no way to make a comeback - even if you skirt the opponents' defenses, find all their out-of-the-way RTs, and destroy all of them. It still does nothing. An edge in the first five minutes is an edge for the whole game. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> -WARNING HUGE POST APPROACHETH-
Okay, listen. NS games are not supposed to last only five minutes. The problem is not the game, it's the players. Five minutes is around the time (actually past the time) that fades should be popping up, and it's also around the time (maybe a tad early) that the second hive should be going up. It is a <i>very</i> critical time in the game, yes, but this is not to say that the game ends at 5 minutes. No, the beginning game ends at 5 minutes, and the more razor-edged combat of the middlegame comes online, where a single fade, lerk, or hive loss can spell doom for the aliens while a base raid or the destruction of forward rts can spell doom for the marines. The game is decided around the 10 minutes point the earliest, I would say, barring unfortunate circumstances like the entire marine team running out of base as soon as the game starts. In cases like those, yeah I just throw up my hands and say we're going to lose, but hey, then it turns into a fun game. Otherwise known as hide-and-seek for ~3 minutes, until all the marines are dead, and voila! new game.
Now, if you say the game being decided at 10 minutes is too short, you may be justified in at least desiring more epic games, but it is nothing to complain about, and certainly nothing to make you want to go off and play Combat. Remember that real Combat games are only supposed to be played for 10-15 minutes. So to move to a CO map because NS maps are too short is simply stupid logic.
Furthermore, comebacks are indeed possible. I don't know how many of you people who complain about NS maps have ever commed for any decent length of time, but it is incredibly easy to overload most pub commander's circuits. For every nub alien, there's bound to be a nub marine (or more than one, actually, since almost all nub players rush "Join Marine" asap). Controlling these peons is a chore in itself, and often marine rts that you knock down stay down for quite a while, especially if skulks don't just sit in one place endlessly and patrol the map, parasiting marines as they see them.
Res is quite often not as abundant as it may seem; that heavy train that's heading towards your hive may have in fact dried up the marines' res pool completely. That would be a superb time to hit their base (obs -> armslab -> armory -> ips, or obs -> ips -> armslab -> armory if marines are dying and respawning). Voila, instant comeback, and it only takes two free skulks to really cause a lot of damage. That's two ZERO res creatures knocking out potentially 100 res worth of buildings, and many more in upgrades. Amazing. Try having a single marine go around the map knocking out upgrade chambers. If not placed out in the open, it will almost never happen.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And yes, spawncamping is a part of the game - but it is WAY more easy to do as a marine than it is as an alien. You need at least 30-40% of the alien team at the marine's base, all of them jacked up as the very expensive fade or onos units (except for perhaps one lerk), and with a fortification of defense / possibly movement or sensory chambers nearby for them to run to for healing to even THINK about successfully spawncamping. The marines, on the other hand, pretty much only need two grenadiers along with two supporting HMGs or even regular machine guns to completely and totally dominate a hive and kill every alien before they even spawn. They stand in the safety of the adjoining corridor and send in explosive death with relative ease. A single grenadier can also destroy an entire room full of alien OT / DTs with only half his stock of ammo. If the aliens are occupied elsewhere, they'll never even get a chance to react. The only area-effect weapon that they have is Spore, and that doesn't even begin to approach the structure- and starting-unit-crushing power that grenades have.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> BS. At least the marines have to be aware of where the aliens are spawning; the aliens just have to munch on the ip, looking up occasionally as the marine spawns in. One alien can do it if there are two ips, two aliens are better for 3 ips. And it can be done by simple skulks, possibly with regeneration and adrenaline. Bring in fades and/or lerks, and it's "BACON BACON BACON!!" I'm operating under the assumption that by "spawncamping" you mean the entire alien or marine team is dead, and the other team is killing them as they spawn in. If the entire team is NOT dead, then spawncamps should be easily broken anyway; get back to the hive/ms and clear out the marines/aliens. One fade can keep the attention of the marines in a hive long enough for at least one or two skulks to spawn in and eat them from behind.
Also, gls are basically useless against fades. I mean fades capable of blinking out of the way of 4 slow moving loud projectiles. And once you hear 3 shots or so, blink in, swipe, dead. GL down. Heck, skulks and lerks can take down gls relatively easily as long as they're not surprised; it's the pistol whip they have to watch out for. Therefore, the only reason that the GL exists is to act as a building destroyer.
Is there any reason why a GL shouldn't be able to destroy a room of ocs? It takes 30 res + 3 minutes to upgrade the armory, plus an additional 15 res per GL, PLUS the effective loss of a marine combatant in favor of a siege unit. That's worth at least a room of ocs, especially considering that that's what the gun was <u>designed</u> to do.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The reason you don't see it too often in NS games is the fact that the marines just have to build an electrified turret array, which is invincible unless you have, again, 4-5 fades and / or onoses and a bunch of defense around to heal them, to dominate a hive or a spawn point. All you need is that first thirty seconds of grenade fire to allow the marines to waltz right in and, unopposed (because all the aliens die without even a 3-second window after they spawn to orient themselves and chomp on the bad guys), build the turret factory that will do their job for them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Um, right. 4-5 fades. Or, just 1 fade and a lerk sporing + umbraing, or maybe a couple gorges bilebombing from a vent and/or with redemption, or maybe 2 carapace skulks suicide rush one corner turret to open up a whole by which they can chomp down on the tf. I could go on, but the fact is there are plenty of way to take down turreted up areas, and most of them do not require uber amounts of onoses and fades, at least for most areas of the map. Also, if the marines have turreted up an area SO BADLY that the aliens can't possibly destroy it with the units they have, then maybe you should just ignore it. There's no way there's anything there greater than one hive or two rts, both of which hurt but you can live without for a while. And if you simply avoid that area and go off destroying every other rt, all the res the marines poured into defending that area is effectively wasted.
A huge turret farm means no shotties or upgrades for taking on fades in a few minutes. One electrified rt means no res for 2 other rts in other parts of the map. And if the marines manage to electrify 4 or more rts in the early stages of the game, before you have bilebomb or fades, then guess what? The aliens screwed up. It sucks, but hey, if one team gets the jump on you THAT MUCH resource-wise early on, it would be <u>unbalanced</u> if they didn't end up winning!
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And as for secret formulas: there most definitely are formulas, and they're called scripts. Who needs skill, or who wants to even bother to aquire it, when people around use these?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh God...God God God....please don't start this. Please, I would love to see a demo of you bunnyhopping (make sure to have your speed displayed in the corner), without using any scripts. Consistently. Through a real, uneven NS map. With average ping. It.is.impossible. Bunnyhopping is impossible to do consistently without either the +3 jump script, or the mwheel bind. Might I add that NEITHER OF THESE BUNNYHOP FOR YOU. You still need to learn the mouse movement, which is where the "skill" of bunnyhopping comes from. I could give a noob a +3 jump script and tell him it's a bunnyhopping script, but he still wouldn't be able to move any faster than me running. In fact, he probably would move slower because he'd trip himself up. Hence the skill factor.
Also, this magical "aim script" talk has got to stop. Scripts can only do commands that are in the Half-Life scripting language. You can find a list of these commands by typing "help" in your console. Not a single one of those commands checks for the hitboxes of enemy players, therefore it is IMPOSSIBLE for a script to aim for you. Period. End.of.discussion. Anything that aims for you has to be a 3rd party program, aka "hax", aka "worthy of a permaban".
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If pointing out inequities in the game balance is "whining," then too bad. And I have taken the time to "figure out the damn game," jackass, because guess what? I always go random. And 90% of the time I'm playing as Aliens. And no matter how much I play, no matter how much I improve, there's nothing you can do once the marines get grenades. ?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I hardly see how going random equates to you "figuring out the damn game." When I say you need to practice to get good at this, it should be implicit with the statement that you have to believe that you can, not that "Oh this game sucks I'm an alien I'm gonna die." You will never get better with that kind of attitude, so don't be surprised when you die game after game. Obstinance in attitude is matched by obstinance in gameplay, and stubbornness is simply not rewarded in this game. If one tactic fails, the noob will try again, while the veteran will understand why it was countered and try a different way.
Nothing you can do once the marines get grenades? Listen, I don't know where you're playing where grenades are these all-powerful weapons, but glers are incredibly easy to kill. They literally are defenseless against any attack that manages to evade their explosions, which honestly isn't that hard. Learn how big the explosions are if you're a skulk, run away the appropriate distance, then leap in there and aim for the gl. If you're a fade, you don't even have to wait; peak around the corner, wait for him to start firing nades, then blink in there for the kill. And marine teamwork is countered by alien teamwork; if the glers have hmg backup, get some spore and umbra action going while 2 fades work in tandem to take em down. Most of the marines will spend half of a clip shooting at one fade, the next half of a clip at the other fade, then boom everyone's reloading and they're easy pickings. Simple.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And who wants to sit through that crap long enough to gain complete mastery so that your skill eventually balances out the inequities and it becomes fun? It's a game, not a job. A certain amount of learning curve is expected just like any game, but with the cheap shots stacked all on one side of the chessboard, who wants to even bother? And if you're not even willing to consider that an imbalance exists, and your answer to everything is "learn how to play," how can you expect anyone to take <i>your</i> whining seriously?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You said it yourself: because it is damn fun. Going 50-5 in an NS game is fun. Leading marines on as a lerk for 3 minutes, before luring them to some skulk buddies is fun. Helping to completely crush a group of 6 HA as an onos is fun. It's a fun game, and like I said, you get out of it what you put into it. If you don't want to have this kind of fun, if you're just as happy with marine gameplay as you can be, power to you, but don't complain about the gameplay at the same time.
Did I ever say that an imbalance exists? No. I said that that learning how to play aliens is much harder than learning how to play as a marine right in my first post. The fact that the alien side has a much higher learning curve is an inherent aspect of this game, and in a sense Combat has done a bit to ease it, I believe; leap-biting is no longer an elite skill, I think. Or it shouldn't be, anyway. It's practically necessary for skulking midgame.
Lastly, I'm not whining. I'm soundly refuting your complaints. It's rather hard to classify a retort as a "whine", I should think, because I'm not the one with the complaint; rather, I am the one thoroughly enjoying myself in this game you seem to hate. Which begs the question, if you hate it so much, why do you play? I would assume the answer is because you still have the hope of becoming good enough to have fun with NS. I certainly hope that is the reason, because it's a damn good goal.
Every game I've ever played online has, eventually, "died", leaving a small hardcore playbase behind. If you don't want to play in such a community I'm sure you'll find another way to pass those winter evenings online. Thankfully NS is moving onto better things, so we can retain this large, vibrant community as the game we know & love evolves over years to come. To Source & beyond... *raises glass*
Comments
Hopefully the marines need more teamplay as TyrNemesis promised us, because I don't wanna see another cool MOD I really like and which is my fav. one become destroyed by kids!
I mean when I started playing Natural Selection I just quit with playing CS for about 1 year (because of steam and the community where most of them where cheaters and kids). and in Natural Selection I found a MOD I really like and makes me happy reminding the good old days back in Half Life (1998) and the eventful years after it's release. I also felt really nice with playing it because ppl weren't acting like the ones in CS, they were friendly and nice and didn't scream things like "b0000n" or "l4m0r" or offended other players that much.
but then I saw many CS players coming over to play NS and they totally destroyed the game (I don't think that just all CS players are guilty but a big part of them). You can see the result today:
- adminds switching to combat maps when the automatic mapcycle tool switched to an NS map and everybody is screaming "NOOO PLZ NO NS MAPS!"
- players don't act like a team on public servers like it was since back then and like it's meant to be - it's very rare that you have good games on a public server and I only know 3 good german servers where I can play on
- NS was forced to equip most of their servers with anti cheat tools, to prevent against cheaters (was this necessary back in 2.0 =? I don't think so)
- players are starting to use scripts for everything...pistol scripts,bunnyhop scripts and so on..I don't have anything against commander scripts with fast keys and that stuff but I can't stand out players who're just scripting a thing I trained for a long time back in Half Life.
I think this is enough. I really don't wanna offend sb in here because you are a part of the community I like and I enjoy beeing a part of. This is my personal opinion about the changes of NS.
I don't use any scripts and I don't play on servers with anti cheat tools I have to dl (exept the VAC). I don't see why I should download some anti cheat tool just to prevent against cheaters. So I have a big disadvantage. I can only play on a few servers where I know everybody and I can definitely say that they don't cheat..even if they're better than me. but I can live with that and I'll be straight against those methods which make NS slowly become like CS.
depends on what youre wielding
Mind if I ask what you're talking about? What 'commander scripts'? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
They are all of the above, and considered essential by good commanders everywhere.
To my knowledge, they can't be done - I don't believe there is a 'drop ammo/medpack' impulse.
You know, aliens are more difficult to play initially because most everyone's used to traditional fps shooter games - namely marine gameplay - but it really doesn't take that much practice to get good at skulking. Good enough to have at least a 50-50 chance against lone marines, I'd say. It's people who give up on playing aliens and always rush to the "Join Marine" side that never figure out how to play as a skulk well, because they never practice. If you're not willing to devote time to figuring out how to play the damn game, how can you expect anyone to take your whining seriously?
To say that the entire game revolves around nadespamming proves one thing to me: you play too much Combat. GLs rarely show up in Classic games, and when they do they NEVER show up in numbers capable of laying down blankets of explosions like they do in Combat games.
And spawncamping's a part of winning the game. To win as aliens you have to spawncamp. To win as marines you have to spawncamp (unless you siege, but then people cry about that <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) If you're being spawncamped, it's because you did something wrong. You died, you let the marine in your hive, and no one's getting back to the hive to get him out. That's not the game's fault, it's your fault.
Bottom-line: you get out of the game what you put into the game. This goes for every NSPlayer out there; Natural Selection can be one of the greatest games you've ever played if you would shut up your whining and just try to learn it. You're going to get owned. Viciously. Repeatedly. But there is no IQ barrier here; there's no secret formula that magically made the people that are killing you over and over again better than you. They've just played the game longer than you. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I play combat exclusively at this point because, quite frankly, the NS games almost always suck. They are too short and far too one-sided, almost always in favor of the marines. You know which team will win within the first five minutes, and then it takes 15 more of getting killed incessantly for the other team to actually win. What's the point of playing after those first five minutes? It's not even remotely fun because there's virtually no way to make a comeback - even if you skirt the opponents' defenses, find all their out-of-the-way RTs, and destroy all of them. It still does nothing. An edge in the first five minutes is an edge for the whole game.
And yes, spawncamping is a part of the game - but it is WAY more easy to do as a marine than it is as an alien. You need at least 30-40% of the alien team at the marine's base, all of them jacked up as the very expensive fade or onos units (except for perhaps one lerk), and with a fortification of defense / possibly movement or sensory chambers nearby for them to run to for healing to even THINK about successfully spawncamping. The marines, on the other hand, pretty much only need two grenadiers along with two supporting HMGs or even regular machine guns to completely and totally dominate a hive and kill every alien before they even spawn. They stand in the safety of the adjoining corridor and send in explosive death with relative ease. A single grenadier can also destroy an entire room full of alien OT / DTs with only half his stock of ammo. If the aliens are occupied elsewhere, they'll never even get a chance to react. The only area-effect weapon that they have is Spore, and that doesn't even begin to approach the structure- and starting-unit-crushing power that grenades have.
The reason you don't see it too often in NS games is the fact that the marines just have to build an electrified turret array, which is invincible unless you have, again, 4-5 fades and / or onoses and a bunch of defense around to heal them, to dominate a hive or a spawn point. All you need is that first thirty seconds of grenade fire to allow the marines to waltz right in and, unopposed (because all the aliens die without even a 3-second window after they spawn to orient themselves and chomp on the bad guys), build the turret factory that will do their job for them.
And as for secret formulas: there most definitely are formulas, and they're called scripts. Who needs skill, or who wants to even bother to aquire it, when people around use these?
If pointing out inequities in the game balance is "whining," then too bad. And I have taken the time to "figure out the damn game," jackass, because guess what? I always go random. And 90% of the time I'm playing as Aliens. And no matter how much I play, no matter how much I improve, there's nothing you can do once the marines get grenades. And who wants to sit through that crap long enough to gain complete mastery so that your skill eventually balances out the inequities and it becomes fun? It's a game, not a job. A certain amount of learning curve is expected just like any game, but with the cheap shots stacked all on one side of the chessboard, who wants to even bother? And if you're not even willing to consider that an imbalance exists, and your answer to everything is "learn how to play," how can you expect anyone to take <i>your</i> whining seriously?
i mean "daidalos" not DragonMech ..the broswer scrolled up while it was loading (damn ISDN)
you guys need reading glasses..I said I have NOTHING against the standard commander hot keys..omg..read it more carefully before making stupid comments
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->you guys need reading glasses..I said I have NOTHING against the standard commander hot keys..omg..read it more carefully before making stupid comments<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Then what were you talking about? "e" and "d" are standard commander interface keys, and those are what you listed as examples.
Also Dragon he said hes not against it, and listed examples of things he ISNT against.
good point on that!! I can definitely tell you that those guys are nothing without their scripts!!
We've had a LAN party where the Staff checked each player for using scripts like bunnyhop,pistolscript or aiming script..and models and so on.. the staff had forbidden to use every single script.
those guys sucked for the whole time, but I knew a few of them from the inet and on the inet they ruled like hell so it was kinda abnormal or unreal. they had a better ping than mine (I have a standard ISDN ping), and they scripted everything. I can't believe that the filesize of the the config of 1 guy was nearly about 3mb!
so some of those guys really sucked at playing because they hadn't their scripts.
there is NO SCRIPT that can replace SKILl..exept you cheat with some tools like OGC (does that sill exist?)
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->you guys need reading glasses..I said I have NOTHING against the standard commander hot keys..omg..read it more carefully before making stupid comments<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Then what were you talking about? "e" and "d" are standard commander interface keys, and those are what you listed as examples. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
okay then cross that one out with the commander scripts..I'm not much into scripts because I totally hate them..I just thought there might be even a script for that so you don't have to do that much to support your mates as commander <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
those guys sucked for the whole time, but I knew a few of them from the inet and on the inet they ruled like hell so it was kinda abnormal or unreal. they had a better ping than mine (I have a standard ISDN ping), and they scripted everything. I can't believe that the filesize of the the config of 1 guy was nearly about 3mb!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ROFL please tell me you're joking.
I wish I could make an aiming script!
those guys sucked for the whole time, but I knew a few of them from the inet and on the inet they ruled like hell so it was kinda abnormal or unreal. they had a better ping than mine (I have a standard ISDN ping), and they scripted everything. I can't believe that the filesize of the the config of 1 guy was nearly about 3mb!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ROFL please tell me you're joking.
I wish I could make an aiming script! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
so what do you think is "auto aim" ?? i think it's scripted..
No, seriously ...
sv_suckmode 1
sv_antiannoy 1
sv_stoppostingstupidcomments 1
maybe that'll help you next time <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I can't believe that the filesize of the the config of 1 guy was nearly about 3mb!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Now with that, you're either exagerating or lying. I have made a config full of NS scripts for general use that is several hundred lines long. Grand total size: 24 Kb. Even if they threw every bit of coding possible into their config, it would be far less than 3 Mb. How would you know the size of their configs anyway?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->so some of those guys really sucked at playing because they hadn't their scripts.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->You've said that before - how about some proof to back it up?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->there is NO SCRIPT that can replace SKILl..exept you cheat with some tools like OGC (does that sill exist?)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->A script is not a cheat. Do you honestly believe the devs would leave scripting as a server variable if they were hacks, instead of blocking them out completely? Or open a 'Scripting Discussion' forum? No - they wouldn't. A little comparison for you:
1) New NSPlayer marine vs. a skulk from [t]error. Both with vanilla configs. Skulk wins.
2) Same situation, except this time give the marine all the scripts he could possibly use. Skulk still wins.
3) Give the marine an aimbot and wallhack. Marine wins.
Please note the difference
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm not much into scripts because I totally hate them<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->How can you hate something without knowing about it? That's like saying I hate caviar. I've never had caviar, so how do I know if I'll like the taste of it? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> It's like when you said:<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> so what do you think is "auto aim" ?? i think it's scripted..<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You don't know what scripts can and can't do. Auto-aim is a hack plain and simple - no script can aim for you.
I have a serious challenge for you, Realness: <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=85961' target='_blank'>Get some scripts.</a> Use them for a month or two, and then make your own _informed_ decision on whether or not scripts are bad. I admit, I used to think like you do: I once thought scripts were evil in the extreme. Then I tried them, used them, and found that they weren't the 'advantage' I had once railed against.
those guys sucked for the whole time, but I knew a few of them from the inet and on the inet they ruled like hell so it was kinda abnormal or unreal. they had a better ping than mine (I have a standard ISDN ping), and they scripted everything. I can't believe that the filesize of the the config of 1 guy was nearly about 3mb!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ROFL please tell me you're joking.
I wish I could make an aiming script! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
so what do you think is "auto aim" ?? i think it's scripted.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No. It's definitely not. Cheats are totally 100% different from scripts...
reminds me, a lot of the kinds of people i associated with in my youth, are seemingly impossible to find now..
In other words, PLAY THE DAMN GAME REGARDLESS.
Don't ****
Don't moan
Don't call hax cause you die more than you'd like
Just play the game and don't give a dogs bollock if the guy on the other team is even using a proper cheat, because in the end, its him that loses.
Christ almighty, no wonder disabaling voice comms is the thing to do these days.
I won't download any scripts Dragon..sorry...not even for testing.
@Nadagast
you think that cheats are different from scripts. well in that point you are right but I think that the cheats need to be coded and they need scripts to activate them.
btw it's really sad that we're discussing a thing like that! it would be better if we don't have to break our mind because of those things.
you think that cheats are different from scripts. well in that point you are right but I think that the cheats need to be coded and they need scripts to activate them. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uhm what are you talking about? If by 'scripts to activate them', you mean a console command, sure. That's right. Of course you need a console command to move, fire, or do ANYTHING in NS. So I don't see what you're saying.
So they don't need 'scripts' to activate them, they need 'binds'. Christ you need to educate yourself before spewing off this garbage.
I play combat exclusively at this point because, quite frankly, the NS games almost always suck. They are too short and far too one-sided, almost always in favor of the marines. You know which team will win within the first five minutes, and then it takes 15 more of getting killed incessantly for the other team to actually win. What's the point of playing after those first five minutes? It's not even remotely fun because there's virtually no way to make a comeback - even if you skirt the opponents' defenses, find all their out-of-the-way RTs, and destroy all of them. It still does nothing. An edge in the first five minutes is an edge for the whole game. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
-WARNING HUGE POST APPROACHETH-
Okay, listen. NS games are not supposed to last only five minutes. The problem is not the game, it's the players. Five minutes is around the time (actually past the time) that fades should be popping up, and it's also around the time (maybe a tad early) that the second hive should be going up. It is a <i>very</i> critical time in the game, yes, but this is not to say that the game ends at 5 minutes. No, the beginning game ends at 5 minutes, and the more razor-edged combat of the middlegame comes online, where a single fade, lerk, or hive loss can spell doom for the aliens while a base raid or the destruction of forward rts can spell doom for the marines. The game is decided around the 10 minutes point the earliest, I would say, barring unfortunate circumstances like the entire marine team running out of base as soon as the game starts. In cases like those, yeah I just throw up my hands and say we're going to lose, but hey, then it turns into a fun game. Otherwise known as hide-and-seek for ~3 minutes, until all the marines are dead, and voila! new game.
Now, if you say the game being decided at 10 minutes is too short, you may be justified in at least desiring more epic games, but it is nothing to complain about, and certainly nothing to make you want to go off and play Combat. Remember that real Combat games are only supposed to be played for 10-15 minutes. So to move to a CO map because NS maps are too short is simply stupid logic.
Furthermore, comebacks are indeed possible. I don't know how many of you people who complain about NS maps have ever commed for any decent length of time, but it is incredibly easy to overload most pub commander's circuits. For every nub alien, there's bound to be a nub marine (or more than one, actually, since almost all nub players rush "Join Marine" asap). Controlling these peons is a chore in itself, and often marine rts that you knock down stay down for quite a while, especially if skulks don't just sit in one place endlessly and patrol the map, parasiting marines as they see them.
Res is quite often not as abundant as it may seem; that heavy train that's heading towards your hive may have in fact dried up the marines' res pool completely. That would be a superb time to hit their base (obs -> armslab -> armory -> ips, or obs -> ips -> armslab -> armory if marines are dying and respawning). Voila, instant comeback, and it only takes two free skulks to really cause a lot of damage. That's two ZERO res creatures knocking out potentially 100 res worth of buildings, and many more in upgrades. Amazing. Try having a single marine go around the map knocking out upgrade chambers. If not placed out in the open, it will almost never happen.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And yes, spawncamping is a part of the game - but it is WAY more easy to do as a marine than it is as an alien. You need at least 30-40% of the alien team at the marine's base, all of them jacked up as the very expensive fade or onos units (except for perhaps one lerk), and with a fortification of defense / possibly movement or sensory chambers nearby for them to run to for healing to even THINK about successfully spawncamping. The marines, on the other hand, pretty much only need two grenadiers along with two supporting HMGs or even regular machine guns to completely and totally dominate a hive and kill every alien before they even spawn. They stand in the safety of the adjoining corridor and send in explosive death with relative ease. A single grenadier can also destroy an entire room full of alien OT / DTs with only half his stock of ammo. If the aliens are occupied elsewhere, they'll never even get a chance to react. The only area-effect weapon that they have is Spore, and that doesn't even begin to approach the structure- and starting-unit-crushing power that grenades have.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
BS. At least the marines have to be aware of where the aliens are spawning; the aliens just have to munch on the ip, looking up occasionally as the marine spawns in. One alien can do it if there are two ips, two aliens are better for 3 ips. And it can be done by simple skulks, possibly with regeneration and adrenaline. Bring in fades and/or lerks, and it's "BACON BACON BACON!!" I'm operating under the assumption that by "spawncamping" you mean the entire alien or marine team is dead, and the other team is killing them as they spawn in. If the entire team is NOT dead, then spawncamps should be easily broken anyway; get back to the hive/ms and clear out the marines/aliens. One fade can keep the attention of the marines in a hive long enough for at least one or two skulks to spawn in and eat them from behind.
Also, gls are basically useless against fades. I mean fades capable of blinking out of the way of 4 slow moving loud projectiles. And once you hear 3 shots or so, blink in, swipe, dead. GL down. Heck, skulks and lerks can take down gls relatively easily as long as they're not surprised; it's the pistol whip they have to watch out for. Therefore, the only reason that the GL exists is to act as a building destroyer.
Is there any reason why a GL shouldn't be able to destroy a room of ocs? It takes 30 res + 3 minutes to upgrade the armory, plus an additional 15 res per GL, PLUS the effective loss of a marine combatant in favor of a siege unit. That's worth at least a room of ocs, especially considering that that's what the gun was <u>designed</u> to do.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The reason you don't see it too often in NS games is the fact that the marines just have to build an electrified turret array, which is invincible unless you have, again, 4-5 fades and / or onoses and a bunch of defense around to heal them, to dominate a hive or a spawn point. All you need is that first thirty seconds of grenade fire to allow the marines to waltz right in and, unopposed (because all the aliens die without even a 3-second window after they spawn to orient themselves and chomp on the bad guys), build the turret factory that will do their job for them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Um, right. 4-5 fades. Or, just 1 fade and a lerk sporing + umbraing, or maybe a couple gorges bilebombing from a vent and/or with redemption, or maybe 2 carapace skulks suicide rush one corner turret to open up a whole by which they can chomp down on the tf. I could go on, but the fact is there are plenty of way to take down turreted up areas, and most of them do not require uber amounts of onoses and fades, at least for most areas of the map. Also, if the marines have turreted up an area SO BADLY that the aliens can't possibly destroy it with the units they have, then maybe you should just ignore it. There's no way there's anything there greater than one hive or two rts, both of which hurt but you can live without for a while. And if you simply avoid that area and go off destroying every other rt, all the res the marines poured into defending that area is effectively wasted.
A huge turret farm means no shotties or upgrades for taking on fades in a few minutes. One electrified rt means no res for 2 other rts in other parts of the map. And if the marines manage to electrify 4 or more rts in the early stages of the game, before you have bilebomb or fades, then guess what? The aliens screwed up. It sucks, but hey, if one team gets the jump on you THAT MUCH resource-wise early on, it would be <u>unbalanced</u> if they didn't end up winning!
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And as for secret formulas: there most definitely are formulas, and they're called scripts. Who needs skill, or who wants to even bother to aquire it, when people around use these?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh God...God God God....please don't start this. Please, I would love to see a demo of you bunnyhopping (make sure to have your speed displayed in the corner), without using any scripts. Consistently. Through a real, uneven NS map. With average ping. It.is.impossible. Bunnyhopping is impossible to do consistently without either the +3 jump script, or the mwheel bind. Might I add that NEITHER OF THESE BUNNYHOP FOR YOU. You still need to learn the mouse movement, which is where the "skill" of bunnyhopping comes from. I could give a noob a +3 jump script and tell him it's a bunnyhopping script, but he still wouldn't be able to move any faster than me running. In fact, he probably would move slower because he'd trip himself up. Hence the skill factor.
Also, this magical "aim script" talk has got to stop. Scripts can only do commands that are in the Half-Life scripting language. You can find a list of these commands by typing "help" in your console. Not a single one of those commands checks for the hitboxes of enemy players, therefore it is IMPOSSIBLE for a script to aim for you. Period. End.of.discussion. Anything that aims for you has to be a 3rd party program, aka "hax", aka "worthy of a permaban".
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If pointing out inequities in the game balance is "whining," then too bad. And I have taken the time to "figure out the damn game," jackass, because guess what? I always go random. And 90% of the time I'm playing as Aliens. And no matter how much I play, no matter how much I improve, there's nothing you can do once the marines get grenades. ?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hardly see how going random equates to you "figuring out the damn game." When I say you need to practice to get good at this, it should be implicit with the statement that you have to believe that you can, not that "Oh this game sucks I'm an alien I'm gonna die." You will never get better with that kind of attitude, so don't be surprised when you die game after game. Obstinance in attitude is matched by obstinance in gameplay, and stubbornness is simply not rewarded in this game. If one tactic fails, the noob will try again, while the veteran will understand why it was countered and try a different way.
Nothing you can do once the marines get grenades? Listen, I don't know where you're playing where grenades are these all-powerful weapons, but glers are incredibly easy to kill. They literally are defenseless against any attack that manages to evade their explosions, which honestly isn't that hard. Learn how big the explosions are if you're a skulk, run away the appropriate distance, then leap in there and aim for the gl. If you're a fade, you don't even have to wait; peak around the corner, wait for him to start firing nades, then blink in there for the kill. And marine teamwork is countered by alien teamwork; if the glers have hmg backup, get some spore and umbra action going while 2 fades work in tandem to take em down. Most of the marines will spend half of a clip shooting at one fade, the next half of a clip at the other fade, then boom everyone's reloading and they're easy pickings. Simple.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And who wants to sit through that crap long enough to gain complete mastery so that your skill eventually balances out the inequities and it becomes fun? It's a game, not a job. A certain amount of learning curve is expected just like any game, but with the cheap shots stacked all on one side of the chessboard, who wants to even bother? And if you're not even willing to consider that an imbalance exists, and your answer to everything is "learn how to play," how can you expect anyone to take <i>your</i> whining seriously?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You said it yourself: because it is damn fun. Going 50-5 in an NS game is fun. Leading marines on as a lerk for 3 minutes, before luring them to some skulk buddies is fun. Helping to completely crush a group of 6 HA as an onos is fun. It's a fun game, and like I said, you get out of it what you put into it. If you don't want to have this kind of fun, if you're just as happy with marine gameplay as you can be, power to you, but don't complain about the gameplay at the same time.
Did I ever say that an imbalance exists? No. I said that that learning how to play aliens is much harder than learning how to play as a marine right in my first post. The fact that the alien side has a much higher learning curve is an inherent aspect of this game, and in a sense Combat has done a bit to ease it, I believe; leap-biting is no longer an elite skill, I think. Or it shouldn't be, anyway. It's practically necessary for skulking midgame.
Lastly, I'm not whining. I'm soundly refuting your complaints. It's rather hard to classify a retort as a "whine", I should think, because I'm not the one with the complaint; rather, I am the one thoroughly enjoying myself in this game you seem to hate. Which begs the question, if you hate it so much, why do you play? I would assume the answer is because you still have the hope of becoming good enough to have fun with NS. I certainly hope that is the reason, because it's a damn good goal.