Now Let's Beef Up Silence!
SmoodCroozn
Join Date: 2003-11-04 Member: 22310Members
Join Date: 2003-11-04 Member: 22310Members
<div class="IPBDescription">The Weakest Upgrade</div> I'm glad that cloaking is beefed up in 3.0. Now, I find it difficult to choose which of the 3 sensory chambers I'd like to use. There is however, an upgrade that is rarely chosen by the players of NS. That's right... the Silence upgrade.
The silence upgrade has several problems.
First of all, it is ineffective at stages 1 or 2. Silence isn't "silent" unless there is ABSOLUTELY no sound. You could hide above the doorway and wait until that marine pops out, but if you had a level 2 silence upgrade or not, it won't matter as that marine WILL hear your drop to the ground.
Secondly, silence is useless when attacking structures such as the common RT. As the commander, you can still hear the "UNDER ATTACK", so what's the point? Even as a marine, you can still hear the crunching sound, which probably means the RT is being attacked. This limits the benefits to primarily marine encounters, in which at most you may have 1 or 2 bites... but cloaking does that much better as you are GUARANTEED to at least have 1 bite.
Thirdly, this upgrade is not useful as in many situations as... say celerity. With celerity, not only does it help to close the distance between marines faster, but in peace time, such as the case with gorges, it can help escape pursuing marines. With skulks, recon is much easier as you can check all the areas of the map faster. Silence is only effective for ambushing, and that becomes useless later in the game which brings my to my last point...
Silence becomes obsolete by one upgrade. This upgrade is motion tracking. Motion tracking weakens silence to a point where it's not worth the time to upgrade, even if it is free. The point of silence is to be hidden. Motion tracking reveals where you are. Even if you are not moving and are waiting to ambush a marine, the only benefit would be is that you don't make a sound when hitting the ground then biting the marine. I don't think that this is worth wasting the time upgrading this just for this upgrade, when later in the game, marines travel in packs or don't even need to walk into rooms when they can use phase gates.
I know this is late and silence has been around here for long time, but I think since cloaking has been giving a buff, silence deserves one as well. As for suggestions, I'd like to suggest that silence has 1/3 the speed boost of celerity along with a 1/3 energy boost of adrenaline and possibly no detection by Motion Tracking. Even with this buff, cloaking is still many times more powerful as you can land the first bite. Celerity is still better, since it is useful in many more situations than silence.
The silence upgrade has several problems.
First of all, it is ineffective at stages 1 or 2. Silence isn't "silent" unless there is ABSOLUTELY no sound. You could hide above the doorway and wait until that marine pops out, but if you had a level 2 silence upgrade or not, it won't matter as that marine WILL hear your drop to the ground.
Secondly, silence is useless when attacking structures such as the common RT. As the commander, you can still hear the "UNDER ATTACK", so what's the point? Even as a marine, you can still hear the crunching sound, which probably means the RT is being attacked. This limits the benefits to primarily marine encounters, in which at most you may have 1 or 2 bites... but cloaking does that much better as you are GUARANTEED to at least have 1 bite.
Thirdly, this upgrade is not useful as in many situations as... say celerity. With celerity, not only does it help to close the distance between marines faster, but in peace time, such as the case with gorges, it can help escape pursuing marines. With skulks, recon is much easier as you can check all the areas of the map faster. Silence is only effective for ambushing, and that becomes useless later in the game which brings my to my last point...
Silence becomes obsolete by one upgrade. This upgrade is motion tracking. Motion tracking weakens silence to a point where it's not worth the time to upgrade, even if it is free. The point of silence is to be hidden. Motion tracking reveals where you are. Even if you are not moving and are waiting to ambush a marine, the only benefit would be is that you don't make a sound when hitting the ground then biting the marine. I don't think that this is worth wasting the time upgrading this just for this upgrade, when later in the game, marines travel in packs or don't even need to walk into rooms when they can use phase gates.
I know this is late and silence has been around here for long time, but I think since cloaking has been giving a buff, silence deserves one as well. As for suggestions, I'd like to suggest that silence has 1/3 the speed boost of celerity along with a 1/3 energy boost of adrenaline and possibly no detection by Motion Tracking. Even with this buff, cloaking is still many times more powerful as you can land the first bite. Celerity is still better, since it is useful in many more situations than silence.
Comments
Regardless of cloak or silence, you still travel at same speed. I don't see how silence let's you roam the map better than cloaking. Even if marines hear you, chances are, you can hear them, and with cloak, all you need to do is hide in a certain spot for 3 seconds. I'll have to disagree with you on your opinion that cloaking is just as effective as killing marines. Cloaking GUARANTEES at least 1 bite, unless the com manages to magically know where you are and scan you, or next to an obs. Silence however all depends on sight, which means Motion Tracking will render it useless. Not only that, but cloaking has the benefit from the sensory chambers. Now you can see where marines are due to the free scent of fear, if your sensories are placed in good spots.
In my experiences, cloaking is better for camping an area. Silence is better, because it allows you to take advantage of the vent system and hidings places easier. With silence, you can jump out of a hiding place/vent and get to the marine before he sees or hears you. With cloaking, you have to creep along at walking speed, until you are right next to the marine. Silence is also great in chaotic situations. While your teammates are keeping the marines occupied, you will be able to attack the marines from behind, killing one or more of them before they realize that you are there. If you had cloaking, they would hear your bite sound the second you started attacking.
Cloaking guarantees you one bite. Silence guarantees you multiple bites or kills, if you get the first bite in.
Fading with silence is interesting, because you can hit a group of marines, kill one, and get out before they realize that you were there, especially if you have focus. Fading/Lerking with cloaking is awful, because you usually start out an attack by blinking/flying.
They're both good, but they both require different playstyles to use effectively.
level 2: as above + no bite hit sound
" : + comm doesn't detect
i like it <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
level 2: as above + no bite hit sound
" : + comm doesn't detect
i like it <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would love it.
Personally I think that silence should defeat motion tracking. Why? Well look at it this way... If a person chooses silence to defeat MT, then they won't be choosing celerity. So while you may not see them on MT, they won't be moving as fast and so they will be easier to kill. It's a trade-off. A person with celerity may show up on MT, but you will have less time to react, even though you know they are coming. Upgrades should provide an advantage that can be used throughout the game, not just at one point in the game.
As for attacks, I'd like to see the attack sound muted a bit. Perhaps 50% of normal, so that it's not so obvious from a distance that a skulk is there, and also to allow the skulk to hear what is happening. Think about it... What's the point of muting the sound of an attack with silence if the RESULT of that attack can be heard? Either way it gives you way, which defeats the purpose of muted attacks to begin with.
The comm should still be notified if a building is under attack though, there is no way we can justify that otherwise. However, I don't see it as that big a deal, most good comms would know even without the message.
I wouldn't be for giving silence a 'speed' or 'adren' boost though. If we could make it so silence was completely silent, defeated MT and was 50% quieter when attacking, then I would be happy.
Regards,
Savant
No, it isn't. Cloaking does nothing to stop MT. The sensory chamber <b>itself</b> will defeat MT within range of the chamber, but the cloaking upgrade won't defeat MT. (although it really should) I've watched the radar and have seen cloaked aliens run through the halls with MT tracking them every step of the way. Only when in range of the SC does MT cut out.
Regards,
Savant
No, it isn't. Cloaking does nothing to stop MT. The sensory chamber <b>itself</b> will defeat MT within range of the chamber, but the cloaking upgrade won't defeat MT. (although it really should) I've watched the radar and have seen cloaked aliens run through the halls with MT tracking them every step of the way. Only when in range of the SC does MT cut out.
Regards,
Savant <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If they are running through the halls, then they aren't cloaked, right? Have you seen cloakwalking aliens on MT?
Well, I wanted to discuss the use of Silence as the upgrade, without any suggestions, so naturally, I would have put this in beta discussion, but where did it go... Anyways, I think this is a much more thorough examination on silence than the other silence threads.
level 2: as above + no bite hit sound
" : + comm doesn't detect
i like it <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is physically impossible.
The bite sound is the sound of armor getinng crunched, how would you disable that?
Silence is an early game upgrade, you are guaranteed 2 hits if they dont see you first because it takes a second to the hit to register in your mind and you also cannot hear the skulk so you do not know where to look exactly (other than generally behind you) and by then the skulk easily gets the 2nd and maybe 3rd killing blow...
silence takes skill to use like most upgrades including celer <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
B: 1,2 level upgrades of silence are all but useless, always drop 3 MCs
C: The counter to motion tracking is fades. IMHO motion tracking is too cheap right now anyways in NS, it can be recearched extreamly early, it can be maintained even after an obs is lost by simply building a new obs, and with decent marines it doubles your kill/death rate against skulks; ATM it is an overpowered ability. The only reason fades are impervious to motion tracking, is that unlike skulks or lerks fades shouldn't have to worry about ambushing or getting a solid LMG bead painted on them. A fade will blink around making the blip screw up and screwing the marines accuracy, and it really doesn't matter if the marine gets 2 extra LMG bullets into it because he was able to react quicker to it coming from behind a corner.
D: If you want to buff silence motion tracking has to be seriously nerfed, as MT is the only hard counter to silence, and it is extreamly cheap and fast as an upgrade. Silence as its stands is a great ability, just too easily counterable.
Silence, negates our ability to hear, when I attack the lifeform I can see, I listen always for the one who is going to ambush. Add more to silence, and you unbalance the clans greatly.
As carapace isn't carapace until 3rd DC is up... For cloaking it's a little bit different but wait more for being cloaked just sux. Better to have 3 senso! Isn't it?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Secondly, silence is useless when attacking structures such as the common RT<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Silence is not made for that purpose. Adrenaline is made for it. It's just about teamwork. Some will have to specialise in ambush some will be the structures eaters.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As the commander, you can still hear the "UNDER ATTACK<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nano technology from the future <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This limits the benefits to primarily marine encounters, in which at most you may have 1 or 2 bites... but cloaking does that much better as you are GUARANTEED to at least have 1 bite.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Me; garanted 2 kills sometimes 3... Just don't rush in front of them... Hide efficiently. Silence must be use in the most treacherous way <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> .
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Silence becomes obsolete by one upgrade. This upgrade is motion tracking. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Same problem with sensory.
you can read it there:
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=89141&st=15' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....pic=89141&st=15</a>
"An observatory is built in 15sec ; MT takes 1min40sec to be up and running. 2m... ok ok marins do it at 1.30 (late) from the start. So at 3.30 MT is up... "
In fact using silence I've been able to run right at marines and they've not seen me, because most players are LISTENING for aliens, not looking for them.
Second, silence + fades = laughs. You don't hear it blink in, you hear your teammate die, then when you look around you see his corpse and nothing else. Silence is eeeeeeeeevil with fades. Ditto combat lerks. A silence alien moving at full speed can easily carve up a marine and escape before he's even spotted.
Also consider the benefits of silence and cloaking, or silence and focus. Focus silence generally means one hit one kill, so you can afford to miss out on adren, etc, because you'll only be blinking in to kill one guy.
Individually on poor players, silence may seem pretty poor, but combined with other ups AND player skill, silence is a very potent tool.
Perhaps assuming that the attacker gains a little bit of finesse to not be so noisy, the noise can be decreased when munching on inanimate things (structures).
SC is the counter to MT..
So where's the problem? Beef up silence so there is no counter to it anymore? o_O
Get silence and bhop around the map, you got the speed of celerity and even skilled marines got problems killing you because they can't hear you comin.
I don't get the point of this thread at all.. silence is good as it is now...
OH yeah make it so silence can't make the commander hear that his buildings get attacked GREAT idea!!
"Comm comm our base is down!"
"WTH why did nobody tell me?!"
Silence for teh baserush.
To be honest that's a stupid idea.
i also suspect thread starter cannot play the role SKULK.
finally, i conclude that this thread is worthless and should be locked. silence does not need a boost, and whether cloaking really deserves to be as good as it is now should be discussed, however in another thread.
amen
(can i do one word posts? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
B: 1,2 level upgrades of silence are all but useless, always drop 3 MCs
C: The counter to motion tracking is fades. IMHO motion tracking is too cheap right now anyways in NS, it can be recearched extreamly early, it can be maintained even after an obs is lost by simply building a new obs, and with decent marines it doubles your kill/death rate against skulks; ATM it is an overpowered ability. The only reason fades are impervious to motion tracking, is that unlike skulks or lerks fades shouldn't have to worry about ambushing or getting a solid LMG bead painted on them. A fade will blink around making the blip screw up and screwing the marines accuracy, and it really doesn't matter if the marine gets 2 extra LMG bullets into it because he was able to react quicker to it coming from behind a corner.
D: If you want to buff silence motion tracking has to be seriously nerfed, as MT is the only hard counter to silence, and it is extreamly cheap and fast as an upgrade. Silence as its stands is a great ability, just too easily counterable. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You say in your first statement the upgrade is not weak. Then after you say Marines get MT, it becomes worthless. Why should 1 upgrade be completely negated due to 1 upgrade when the other 8 are not? All I see is you rephrasing what I said. So what exactly is your stand on silence? Lastly, we are not talking about countering Motion Tracking, the thread is about how 1 upgrade can be deemed useless by a research, while the other 8 are still useable.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Many of us use sound to track, many of us have sound cards that allow us to locate where the slightest sound came from, many times have I seen that cloak walkers get shot because they strafe a tiny bit and make a noise. No in my opinion, as it was through out the test, sensory is still poorest of the chambers.
Silence, negates our ability to hear, when I attack the lifeform I can see, I listen always for the one who is going to ambush. Add more to silence, and you unbalance the clans greatly.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you still think sensory is the poorest of chambers I suggest you play games a bit more. Sensories give you a limited MT, a huge boost to skulks, and are only countered with a well placed obs or lucky scan... while movements only give you an energy boost, or a quick escape. I don't see how they are weak.
I'm afraid how hearing is valuable when THEY CAN ALREADY SEE YOU. I don't think I have to explain how much more important sight is compared to sound. Think of it this way, when marines have MT, are you better off with celerity or silence?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I stopped reading the thread in the first sentence when you said silence was weak. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Great job flaming threads with your unconstructive opinions that have no evidence to back it up. Does it kill you to read a debate where someone has an opinion? There's a thought. Holy cow, you are a clanner so that must mean your words are law.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I prefer Silence over cloaking tbh. It takes 2 entire minutes to upgrade for gods sakes. By the time it finishes upgrading, the aliens should almost have enough for a fade. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is not about silence vs cloaking. This is about silence vs celerity and adrenaline. As with Homicide, why don't you use some constructive opinions instead of your sarcastic **** or better yet, don't bother posting at all.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As carapace isn't carapace until 3rd DC is up... For cloaking it's a little bit different but wait more for being cloaked just sux. Better to have 3 senso! Isn't it?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm afraid you don't understand my reasoning. If you look in the dictionary you will find silence means: the absence of sound. The problem is that at levels 1 and 2, there IS sound. It may be muffled a bit, but it is still there. When you look at cloaking, you can see how the devs finally realized that 50% or 70% cloaking just won't cut it. It has to be 100% cloaking, otherwise it's useless. I believe silence goes on the same trend. Level 1 or 2 carapace STILL gives you benefits of taking more damage, even if it is small.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Silence is not made for that purpose. Adrenaline is made for it. It's just about teamwork. Some will have to specialise in ambush some will be the structures eaters.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, it's better to take out res as fast as possible, rather to have 1 guy chomping res and 5 other skulks watching him, waiting for a marine that might not even come. If you are a skulk, you were designed to chomp RTs. Celerity and Adrenaline both give benefits here, but silence is limited, which is my point.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Nano technology from the future .<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I seem to infer that you don't understand my argument. The fact is that silence is worthless when attacking RTs. The upgrade that was designed to hide your location is given away when biting RTs...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Me; garanted 2 kills sometimes 3... Just don't rush in front of them... Hide efficiently. Silence must be use in the most treacherous way .<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Obviously. What I implied is that even with a group of marines, cloak guarantees at least 1 bite. Silence however is harder to do with MT. You must be standing still, and even when you do close the distance, a marine can use the element of sight and smoke you before you can land a single bite.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Same problem with sensory.
you can read it there:
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....pic=89141&st=15' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....pic=89141&st=15</a>
"An observatory is built in 15sec ; MT takes 1min40sec to be up and running. 2m... ok ok marins do it at 1.30 (late) from the start. So at 3.30 MT is up... "<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Even if MT was effective against cloaking, I am very sure that aliens under a sensory chamber do not show up. Not only that, but the sensory chamber offers more benefits with it's chamber abilities (not just upgrades), than movement.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Silence does not need beefing up. As others have said, a decent player can be moving very VERY fast and in total silence.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Show me these others...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In fact using silence I've been able to run right at marines and they've not seen me, because most players are LISTENING for aliens, not looking for them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So because the server you play with the marines only use their ears means that it's the same at the servers I play... right. I fail to see how listening is better than MT, other than it's free and used first.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Second, silence + fades = laughs. You don't hear it blink in, you hear your teammate die, then when you look around you see his corpse and nothing else. Silence is eeeeeeeeevil with fades. Ditto combat lerks. A silence alien moving at full speed can easily carve up a marine and escape before he's even spotted.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sorry, but I find celerity FAR more effective as a fade. You travel the map faster, Blink uses less energy, and when low on energy, at least your running speed is improved. I'm not arguing about combat lerks, or even combat; I'm talking about NS.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also consider the benefits of silence and cloaking, or silence and focus. Focus silence generally means one hit one kill, so you can afford to miss out on adren, etc, because you'll only be blinking in to kill one guy.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Generally does not help your opinion here. Armor upgrades can counter focus. I seem to think that you are basing your arguments primarily on fades. I am talking about the other 4 lifeforms here. Please compare silence to celerity or adrenaline... NOT in conjunction with other upgrades. And regardless if you are silent, if a marine can see you coming around the corner, he STILL KNOWS YOU ARE COMING. Whether it be by sound or by sight, HE STILL KNOWS YOU ARE COMING.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Individually on poor players, silence may seem pretty poor, but combined with other ups AND player skill, silence is a very potent tool. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, you seem to ignore the fact that MT renders silence useless. Not only that, but you justify your opinions on the fact that silence is poweful COMBINED with other upgrades, which is not what I had initially argued. Nice try, but you are drifting away from what I am talking about. Please don't use player skill in this situation as you and I both know it is a variable nobody has control of.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->One thing many of you fail to realize regarding silence is that if a target is being attacked, it isn't under the silence spell (I see one who realizes, although mistakenly barring it as "impossible"). Hence why when you much on marines or RTs, you'll hear a sound. Give the RT's a silence upgrade option, let them choose for themselves, and we'll see if they continue to make noise, okay?
Perhaps assuming that the attacker gains a little bit of finesse to not be so noisy, the noise can be decreased when munching on inanimate things (structures).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Excellent point here. If you have silence and are not attacking, then the ability of silence is not even used. Silence upgrade option... I don't see this happening in NS.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->MT is the counter to silence..
SC is the counter to MT..<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok, your first analogy does not make sense. You compare 1 upgrade that costs 35 res that completely renders another worthless, yet you take a chamber that is only effective when it is mass networked which I know you will agree that it sure as hell takes more than 3 to cover the entire map...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So where's the problem? Beef up silence so there is no counter to it anymore? o_O
Get silence and bhop around the map, you got the speed of celerity and even skilled marines got problems killing you because they can't hear you comin.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So many faults in this statement. You say you get the speed of celerity? Well, according to your statement, won't you have the same speed of celerity WITHOUT silence? Skilled marines killing you? You do realize marines have things called eyes? Whens the last time you saw bhop on walls or on ceilings? The point is, it should be EASY to spot bhoping skulks, EVEN if they are silent.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't get the point of this thread at all.. silence is good as it is now...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The point is how of the 9 upgrades, silence is the only upgrade that gets nuked, while the other 8 still remain useful, no matter what marines do.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->OH yeah make it so silence can't make the commander hear that his buildings get attacked GREAT idea!!
"Comm comm our base is down!"
"WTH why did nobody tell me?!"
Silence for teh baserush.
To be honest that's a stupid idea.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, riddle me this partner, why should 1 upgrade be completely useless, when the other 8 do not have a weakness? So making an upgrade actually worth using is a bad thing? If you know how to com, you will realize that when any alien gets near an observatory, it shows up in the map. If you don't have any defenses say mines or even turrets at your base, then you should be asking for your base to fall.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->i suspect thread starter has never used silence in the early game.
i also suspect thread starter cannot play the role SKULK.
finally, i conclude that this thread is worthless and should be locked. silence does not need a boost, and whether cloaking really deserves to be as good as it is now should be discussed, however in another thread.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good job Tomekki for being the worst poster in this thread. So how would I have made my points on silence if I never used it? If I use celerity instead of silence, does that make me a worse skulk player?
Ironically, your conclusion is worthless and you should have not bothered writing such a poor argument, and possibly check for spelling errors. Maybe you should read the title, it says S-I-L-E-N-C-E, not cloaking. You know what? My opinion is just as good as yours, whether you like it or not.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Silence is anything BUT weak...in large maps I use silence over celerity any day, even if I know that the marines have MT...why? Because I try and get behind the marines as much as possible with silence...it's the PERFECT backstabbing skill a skulk can have...even by the time a marine sees me on the miniradar it will be too late...and silence and cloaking or silence and scent of fear are also really lethal... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What happens when the marine SEES you coming? Will coming in faster (celerity) be better, or coming in silently, even if they know you are coming be more useful? Silence is only useful when you have stealth. MT destroys that.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In responce to tomekkis post:
amen<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
(can i do one word posts? )
Hey you're good... at spamming.
No, it isn't. Cloaking does nothing to stop MT. The sensory chamber <b>itself</b> will defeat MT within range of the chamber, but the cloaking upgrade won't defeat MT. (although it really should) I've watched the radar and have seen cloaked aliens run through the halls with MT tracking them every step of the way. Only when in range of the SC does MT cut out.
Regards,
Savant <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If they are running through the halls, then they aren't cloaked, right? Have you seen cloakwalking aliens on MT? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
welcome to 3.0final
Silence is the best upgrade early on in my opinion. Its really not that hard to see cloakers, but with lvl 3 silence you can go right behind even the best players and be able to get a bite or two off, even if you cant kill them, it'll be more effective than with cloaking, which you need to walk to be effective at all, and if you run you can easily be seen even more than when your walking and can be heard.
The only real thing is, Defence chamber = no counter, Movement Chamber = no counter, Sensory chamber = obs near and pointless, cant counter the defence chambers healing, cant counter the movement chambers adrenaline, can counter the sensory chambers cloaking, SoF from the chamber is moot as the obs gives marines positions of the aliens and structures who can see the marines with SoF and are in need of pacification..
Silence needs not to be buffed, due to its nature, tracking your target through MT alone is dificult, if it keeps moving, MT doesn't update fast enough, if the target moves fast enough the blip skips across both the map and the screen, it is devastating in the use of a leaping skulk or blinking fade. MC will beat SC hands down for efficiency. And picture this :
A fade has your attention.
Where will it come from, left right?!
Then your dead, a skulk from behind, you had MT, it was useless, you were focused on the fade.
Although, in all honesty, if MT works like sonar, then it is silence, not cloaking that should negate its benifit.
when Im playing marines, Im almsot always on lookout.
If im walking though hallways, im always looking at the most likely place for a skulk to emerge. But I always keep my ears open for the noise of a skulk. At which point I will start jumping around, pointing my gun in all directions, to avoid being eaten....
If someone is using silence, I dont get that backup. And truth be told, I never check behind me (or the mini-map) for aliens on MT. Im probably not the only one.
When Im the alien, I have had fun with Silence. HMG running down corridor... But not for long.... Just run up behind him, and start munching.
And you cant underestimate the fun of the advanced skills running of Silence. One example is the Silent Blink. How about the Silent Leap? A skulk can cover huge ammounts of the map in a short time, using Leap and Silence. In fact, a ballsy Skulk could leap right behind a Marine on his way.
And dont get me started on the Joy of a silent Xenocide... Though, I still havnt worked out my timing without the scream to guide me <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
1) leave the amount of noise exactly the way it is (each level lowers sound level by 33%)
2) lower the <b>radius</b> you can be heard from (each level lowers the radius by 33% of the maximum)
This should be a good way to manage silence, because even if someone has such uber speakers they can play blindfolded, you can get yourself closer before they'll notice you. (it should've been run this way in the first place). Boom, no more problems with silence being 'weak' at low levels (# of chambers).
And late game, pretty much everyone knows where you'll be attacking from- either marines will be watching their front door, or aliens will be rushing the siege base from their hive entrance...what i'm saying is ambush tactics need to be ditched later in the game, in favor of power and speed. A cloaked/silent skulk can't take on a heavy train, and its pointless to be stealthy in areas you already control.
Silence is just one of those upgrades (like mines) that can be powerful at the beginning but gets weak later on. But nobody forces you to take it over adren or celerity anyway. Just get whatever upgrade is most useful for your current lifeform/task.