although I do have to agree with the armory cache, my suggestion if you do decide to give it another go is add some text when you spawn telling you to go up to each picture and press E, otherwise I think many would/will have missed it.
I nominate you for the <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo--> award good work.
(and you shoulda nicked name the gorge phatteh! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
You know, this really should be official, because everyone is gonna download it anyway! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Great job. I'm not gonna complain about the already noted bugs and such. Enjoy your vacation. You diserve it.
I just played the map its realy great i dont know why Devs didnt like it, voices are made perfeclty the map have a climate and its fun to play. I acured some problems with the holoroom (sync voices with models) but tje onos realy scareeeedddd me <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> realy good job hope you will develope this map more. Btw. installer is a great thing in this map easy to start the map. GOOD JOB
Regardless of the "polished" excuse they gave you, because I remember the good ol days of 1.0, there is no reason why they shouldnt work with you to make this THEIR training map down the line. Seriously, you belong in the official "ring of knowledge" so you can make this map what they want. You deserve it, and I am really kind of astonished at the fact that the devs arent going to work with you on this. If NS is going to officialy be in the MY GAMES catagory, it sure as hell is going to need this.
Devs, ffs, even if its ONE of you who wants to put in ONE extra hour into something that will help this guy out, do it. It betters NS.
After trying this map, all I have to say is WOW! Being a level designer myself, I can imagin just about how much effort you put into that map getting everything to work just so and I must say, very well done man! It's a shame that you put so much hard work into this project only to be turned down by the ns devs to make it an official part of NS. I'm sorry to hear that. Must have been quite heart wrenching, i'm sure.
But also after reading another post about the ns devs declining this project, there was mention that they had thier own ns_training map in the works, correct? Since this was recent, I can only asume that thier training map was to be released with ns 3.0. Which leads me to my next question? NS 3.0 has been released, where is the "official" ns_training map?
any training map that is being planned, this one or theirs, should be a part of ns when it gets on the Steam list. that way when the enevitable flow of noobs comes, they have something to teach them about NS before they jump on a server and start yelling "OMG HAX!!!" when a focus skulk bites their head off. i know that all people arent like this, but there are a lot that are.
ok, about this one: i found that while you locked down the arms lab upgrades, you didnt lock down motion tracking in the obs. also, you can research phase tech before you build the tf and seiges, so that should be an unlockable or something. you should make it impossibe to get in the CC before you build the ip and obs. that whole field demonstration should be a little more restricted, in that the player has to do the things in order. and maybe, make a little objective list that gets checked off when the player completes the tasks. i can see someone forgetting what they had to do, since the objectives are presented all at once, and there isnt a way to find out what they were
stuff i liked: the random explosions, made me jump <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> the onos part, made me jump again, the gorge description, "aw, look at the little chubby alien" <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
overall: GREAT JOB MEAT!!!!! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
i want to be an alien. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
-The enthusiasm when the guys says,"Looks there's a hive..." is classic.
CheeseLork on the ClorfJoin Date: 2003-12-15Member: 24396Members, Constellation
absolutely great job!
I ll try to hand this out to every new ns player i get to know <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Good job mate, this will help any new players to ns and there are some problems but i dont think it matters because of the effort that you put into this project. Iv been following this for a while and you deserve a holiday, maybe a beer as well.
It has more atmosphere than I had expected. The part at arms cache could have taken more time, to introduce the equipment. It was like just running through the whole section. I kinda like the way you introduced the medpacks, though. Overall it's very professional. I understand it must be difficult to get the most important aspects of the mod in only one map.., even two.
this really should go into the game officially as a training map. better something than nothing to get the newbs familiarized. and it will probably be like the only multiplayer mod with a singleplayer training map other than CS
Firstly, to meat popsicle and ALL the other people who contributed to the map, very well done! It's an awesome piece of work, and a true testament to some of the un-sung quality in the community.
Secondly, to the people who have had a go at the dev's for not getting more involved - look at it from their point of view. This is one of several attempts to make a map of this type - however this is the only one that have actually produced a proper map. From the dev's point of view it would have been a huge gamble to invest time and effort into this - as it turns out maybe it would have been worth it, but it's easy to say things like that when looking in hindsight.
However, some thing to bear in mind, if the feedback to the map is positive (and positive also includes constructive crtitism) maybe that will inspire/convince the Dev's that it truly is a cause worth pushing to get an official stance on.
Once again, good job Popsicle, and all the others who helped to make/test the map.
"Amazing well down" <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> I really like it. It's compact, athmospheric and interesting. Just turn the speaking voice louder at the commander voice level so you can still here it when firing, welding, building, walking. Some things need to be done, right? The weapons range and the equipment tunnel. Maybe locking some doors to make it really one way newbie safe would be last thing to improve.
Just played through it and in my opinion you did an excellent job. The onos part, man, that really brings back memories of when they were scary. Oh yeah and the part where the commander has to fight off some aliens sounded pretty cool too.
It was.. interesting. Not a whole lot of detail though. It teachers marines the basics of dropping and building structures. That's about it. You had two armories, but you didn't say how to use them (although common sense, you never know). And if you did, I just didn't hear it (sorry if you did!). You did mention how to upgrade, but you left out the Arms Lab, along with Resource Nodes. On top of that, you did nothing for aliens. Also left out even the most basic of combat. Which was a minor let down. But overall it's a pretty good map for the basics.
i felt alone in the map <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> .But besides that it was pretty good.Onos was scary.Ok maybe you should have found a way to add a babbler or smthing to kill.
It is a great work; thinking of the limitations you have encountered...
But...
To be totally successful as a training map; It at least needs extended weapon training, encounters with aliens; showing usage of JP for marine side... And ofcourse it needs alien tutorial... Most newbies have more difficulties with alien side than marine side... An addition of an alien scenario consisting at least lifeform movement and abilities; chamber systems and upgrades; basic strategies for ambushing, basic hivesight info is vital... You could have added hud info for both sides...
Again, Im aware that most of these may need extra coding and stuff... So, well done anyways... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
PS: The holoroom had serious syncronization problems for me... The voiceover finished far before the alien holograms... Like a minute or so...
shame you werent female otherwise I would ask you to marry me.
although Im not too new to ns (playing since november 2002 eith the "nostromo gaming group" founded by a friend and me) I love this project to death! its just... I cant believe why the dev team declined it. I just cant.
criticism (mixed):
- installer: perfect. worked without problems for me. - not up to visually standarts? said WHO? this map is an architectual orgasm! its not a crappy "just put it together" object, its a realy amazing, believeable environment. your love to detail is clearly visible. didnt checked the r_speeds but it worked fine with my pc. - medpack: is it just me or did the mdl change? Im not shure if Im using a custom model atm thas why I am asking... - you give the player ha and hmg from the start. that made me laugh with happyness. "ok, no matter what comes along my way, Im pretty safe now." only thing to be mentioned here: may irritate players not having any heavy equipment when a online ns round starts. maybe heavy stuff later on? - I know what "there is some bigger lifeform out there, eeven bigger than the fade." means but the onos behind the door scared the **** out of me <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> that was nice. - the "build" sprite didnt disappear after I builded the obs FIRST, then the IP.
and I dont think I play t just once. thats definitely something to show to friends <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
meat thats really a great piece of work. respect.
PS: this has to be included.
Edit: remember the corridor from the rendered ns trailer? where you can see a skulk rushing by and finally leaping through the poor, stressed marines? this would be the better "join alien" corridor.
Most new players try to play marines anyways, and by playing marines you can get a rough understanding of what the alien classes are capable of. That plus CO should be enough of a tutorial for aliens.
GrendelAll that is fear...Join Date: 2002-07-19Member: 970Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, NS2 Playtester
Addendum: the dialogue, whilst not perfect, suprised me in particular. Most dialogue in games is awful, so I was very impressed that listening to it didn't make me want to wince.
NolSinklerOn the ClorfJoin Date: 2004-02-15Member: 26560Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-Grendel+Mar 19 2005, 04:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Grendel @ Mar 19 2005, 04:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Addendum: the dialogue, whilst not perfect, suprised me in particular. Most dialogue in games is awful, so I was very impressed that listening to it didn't make me want to wince. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Very true.
I still think it should be included, or worked to be included, in 3.1.
<!--QuoteBegin-Grendel+Mar 19 2005, 04:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Grendel @ Mar 19 2005, 04:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Addendum: the dialogue, whilst not perfect, suprised me in particular. Most dialogue in games is awful, so I was very impressed that listening to it didn't make me want to wince. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> minus the weapon descriptions.. come on didn't anyone else get even mildly put off by this?
Comments
although I do have to agree with the armory cache, my suggestion if you do decide to give it another go is add some text when you spawn telling you to go up to each picture and press E, otherwise I think many would/will have missed it.
I nominate you for the <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo--> award good work.
(and you shoulda nicked name the gorge phatteh! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
Great job. I'm not gonna complain about the already noted bugs and such. Enjoy your vacation. You diserve it.
This is a mirror for you.
[ <a href='http://overmind.pl/files/ns_training_1_setup.exe' target='_blank'>Overmind.pl Ns_taning map</a> ]
Devs, ffs, even if its ONE of you who wants to put in ONE extra hour into something that will help this guy out, do it. It betters NS.
<a href='http://www.brywright.co.uk/downloads/files/index.php?dir=natural-selection/&file=ns_training_1_setup.exe' target='_blank'>http://www.brywright.co.uk/downloads/files...ing_1_setup.exe</a>
But also after reading another post about the ns devs declining this project, there was mention that they had thier own ns_training map in the works, correct? Since this was recent, I can only asume that thier training map was to be released with ns 3.0. Which leads me to my next question? NS 3.0 has been released, where is the "official" ns_training map?
ok, about this one: i found that while you locked down the arms lab upgrades, you didnt lock down motion tracking in the obs. also, you can research phase tech before you build the tf and seiges, so that should be an unlockable or something. you should make it impossibe to get in the CC before you build the ip and obs. that whole field demonstration should be a little more restricted, in that the player has to do the things in order. and maybe, make a little objective list that gets checked off when the player completes the tasks. i can see someone forgetting what they had to do, since the objectives are presented all at once, and there isnt a way to find out what they were
stuff i liked: the random explosions, made me jump <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> the onos part, made me jump again, the gorge description, "aw, look at the little chubby alien" <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
overall: GREAT JOB MEAT!!!!! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
-The enthusiasm when the guys says,"Looks there's a hive..." is classic.
I ll try to hand this out to every new ns player i get to know <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
i'd say 8.5 out of 10.
This map would be awesome to play from the Kharaa perspective of view, with the trainee marine player represented as a bot.
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Secondly, to the people who have had a go at the dev's for not getting more involved - look at it from their point of view. This is one of several attempts to make a map of this type - however this is the only one that have actually produced a proper map. From the dev's point of view it would have been a huge gamble to invest time and effort into this - as it turns out maybe it would have been worth it, but it's easy to say things like that when looking in hindsight.
However, some thing to bear in mind, if the feedback to the map is positive (and positive also includes constructive crtitism) maybe that will inspire/convince the Dev's that it truly is a cause worth pushing to get an official stance on.
Once again, good job Popsicle, and all the others who helped to make/test the map.
Father out.
But...
To be totally successful as a training map; It at least needs extended weapon training, encounters with aliens; showing usage of JP for marine side... And ofcourse it needs alien tutorial... Most newbies have more difficulties with alien side than marine side... An addition of an alien scenario consisting at least lifeform movement and abilities; chamber systems and upgrades; basic strategies for ambushing, basic hivesight info is vital... You could have added hud info for both sides...
Again, Im aware that most of these may need extra coding and stuff... So, well done anyways... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
PS: The holoroom had serious syncronization problems for me... The voiceover finished far before the alien holograms... Like a minute or so...
AWESOME!!!
shame you werent female otherwise I would ask you to marry me.
although Im not too new to ns (playing since november 2002 eith the "nostromo gaming group" founded by a friend and me) I love this project to death!
its just... I cant believe why the dev team declined it. I just cant.
criticism (mixed):
- installer: perfect. worked without problems for me.
- not up to visually standarts? said WHO? this map is an architectual orgasm! its not a crappy "just put it together" object, its a realy amazing, believeable environment. your love to detail is clearly visible. didnt checked the r_speeds but it worked fine with my pc.
- medpack: is it just me or did the mdl change? Im not shure if Im using a custom model atm thas why I am asking...
- you give the player ha and hmg from the start. that made me laugh with happyness. "ok, no matter what comes along my way, Im pretty safe now." only thing to be mentioned here: may irritate players not having any heavy equipment when a online ns round starts. maybe heavy stuff later on?
- I know what "there is some bigger lifeform out there, eeven bigger than the fade." means but the onos behind the door scared the **** out of me <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> that was nice.
- the "build" sprite didnt disappear after I builded the obs FIRST, then the IP.
and I dont think I play t just once. thats definitely something to show to friends <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
meat thats really a great piece of work. respect.
PS: this has to be included.
Edit: remember the corridor from the rendered ns trailer? where you can see a skulk rushing by and finally leaping through the poor, stressed marines? this would be the better "join alien" corridor.
Very true.
I still think it should be included, or worked to be included, in 3.1.
Hearing the trainer get onosed... == winner <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
lol, MP wins!
*looks at post count*
LOL
minus the weapon descriptions.. come on didn't anyone else get even mildly put off by this?