Revolution In Kyrgyzstan
reasa
Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8010Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8010Members, Constellation
in Discussions
<div class="IPBDescription">Another new Democracy?</div> <a href='http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7257340/' target='_blank'>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7257340/</a>
Just heard about this now, I blame our **** media that’s too focused on the life of one already dead woman and her fanatical parents and of course the ever important Jackson trial.
Seems as though the people of Kyrgyzstan have been ticked off for some time now and finally took action.
Kyrgyzstan is the smaller country below the huge one with the similar name btw, thank god for maps because I was confused. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->“We want to create a genuinely democratic Kyrgyzstan,” he said, stressing that the protesters would not storm the government headquarters or confront police.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's a shaky start, but it could work out. Do you think recent events in nearby Afghanistan and farther Iraq, Egypt, and Lebanon helped spark this push towards democracy in Kyrgyzstan?
If anyone has more information on this please feel free to post it.
Just heard about this now, I blame our **** media that’s too focused on the life of one already dead woman and her fanatical parents and of course the ever important Jackson trial.
Seems as though the people of Kyrgyzstan have been ticked off for some time now and finally took action.
Kyrgyzstan is the smaller country below the huge one with the similar name btw, thank god for maps because I was confused. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->“We want to create a genuinely democratic Kyrgyzstan,” he said, stressing that the protesters would not storm the government headquarters or confront police.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's a shaky start, but it could work out. Do you think recent events in nearby Afghanistan and farther Iraq, Egypt, and Lebanon helped spark this push towards democracy in Kyrgyzstan?
If anyone has more information on this please feel free to post it.
Comments
I think I'll debate the issue with myself, perhaps spark some controversy...
Reasa: I think the revolution in Kyrgyzstan is a direct result of Bush's actions in Iraq and Afghanistan. Certainly the recent elections in Palestine and Egypt along with the push towards democracy in Lebanon can also be accredited to Bush's plan.
Reasa: I agree wholeheartedly.
Reasa: Well then perhaps we should send aid and ambassadors to Kyrgyzstan to help them look favorably upon the West and perhaps sway them ever closer to democracy. As we have seen the veritable seed of democracy planted in one country can sprout new saplings all across the region. We need to nurture these tiny plants so they can grow to become our strong allies in the future.
Reasa: Absolutely.
Reasa: I would also like to take this opportunity to laugh at the naysayers who said Bush's plan would never work and that democracy could never flourish in the Middle East. It seems that they were wrong and we were right, more and more events keep proving how the Middle East is ready for change and we must be the ones to guide them to the light.
Reasa: I couldn't have said it any better myself.
Reasa: Indeed.
Sorry, but that appears to be the truth.
Sorry, but that appears to be the truth. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes because the possibility of having a democratic pro-western country in the Middle East that also happens to border China would be no big deal what so ever...
This forum has quite honestly gone to hell in a hand basket.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I haven't been paying enough attention to this process to comment intelligently upon it, but I <b>do</b> have to say that the timing and emergence of the Palestinian elections were sort of directly tied to, you know, Yassir Arafat dying-- and <b>our</b> ally Israel <i>allowing</i> the election.
Edit: It's important to note that the time of his death, Arafat's support had been steadily dropping like a rock-- from 70% immediately after the intifada in 1996 to the mid 30s in early 2000. I don't think any external catalyst can take much credit for the change in scenery there.
What's that about ice cream drowing people? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
What's that about ice cream drowing people? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Timing is everything you know.
After all the problems Arafat has caused it was awfully nice of him to die at such a convenient time as to accredit the elections in Palestine with Bush's plan for Middle East democracy. Let us not forget the rode map to peace as well. Ether way I have heard Palestine listed with all the others as a success story due to Bush's actions from many media organizations. As you well know its not what’s true but what we all agree upon to be true. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Although one must wonder if things would have gone so well if we didn’t have such a large military presence in the area. No one is seriously questioning that the events in Lebanon were sparked by our actions. We may not be the center of the movements but one could certainly make a strong argument that we are the catalyst.
But it's going to be a loooooooooooooooooooooooong time before we can make those judgements. It's a tad early to hold up every event as a glowing, unequivocal victory. Wait 'n watch.
(Of course, I realize that in the past I've probably been as quick to judge things to be failures, so take it all with a grain of salt). <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
But it's going to be a loooooooooooooooooooooooong time before we can make those judgements. It's a tad early to hold up every event as a glowing, unequivocal victory. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nobody's doing that...... yet <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
I do see it as a good idea, but again they are not even close to the playing field that would be required for them to have any influence on anyone they border.
GG politics.
<a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyrgyzstan' target='_blank'>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyrgyzstan</a>
/will post again after brain hemorrhage stops.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If Krygyzstan actually had any influence on world events I'm sure someone would have noticed more then MSNBC, but since they do not and are a slowly re-emerging third-world country, it is not going to happen.
I do see it as a good idea, but again they are not even close to the playing field that would be required for them to have any influence on anyone they border.
GG politics.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I suppose you're going to tell me that the lebanon and ukraine had no effect on world events, specifically, Krgyzstan?!?!?!
<a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyrgyzstan' target='_blank'>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyrgyzstan</a>
/will post again after brain hemorrhage stops.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If Krygyzstan actually had any influence on world events I'm sure someone would have noticed more then MSNBC, but since they do not and are a slowly re-emerging third-world country, it is not going to happen.
I do see it as a good idea, but again they are not even close to the playing field that would be required for them to have any influence on anyone they border.
GG politics.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I suppose you're going to tell me that the lebanon and ukraine had no effect on world events, specifically, Krgyzstan?!?!?! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll tell you what I'll let it slide that even you didn't read that article and attempted to prove this little country where almost no one can even remember where they are located are going to influence China, which is the nearest actual world player neighbor.
The only thing that lends me to think you may have read the article is the fact this little country was accepted into the WTO (world trade organization) of which there are still another 148 members.
I shall assist so you can see that this isn't really that big of a deal for a country that has actual world political influence, which Kyrgyzstan does not.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Albania 8 September 2000
Angola 23 November 1996
Antigua and Barbuda 1 January 1995
Argentina 1 January 1995
Armenia 5 February 2003
Australia 1 January 1995
Austria 1 January 1995
Bahrain, Kingdom of 1 January 1995
Bangladesh 1 January 1995
Barbados 1 January 1995
Belgium 1 January 1995
Belize 1 January 1995
Benin 22 February 1996
Bolivia 12 September 1995
Botswana 31 May 1995
Brazil 1 January 1995
Brunei Darussalam 1 January 1995
Bulgaria 1 December 1996
Burkina Faso 3 June 1995
Burundi 23 July 1995
Cambodia 13 October 2004
Cameroon 13 December 1995
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Those are the top of the list of the WTO members, do you even know who or where 1/2 of those countries are located without looking on a map?
Probably not, why, because they do not have any influence on world POLITICS.
*edit* Ukraine is also not located anywhere near Krygyzstan. Neither is lebanon, I do not see where you are going with that conclusion.
Right now it's only a possibility. If/when they become Democratic, and they show interest in establishing mutually benefitial relations with the U.S., you can bet the press, and the people, will take notice.
I do see it as a good idea, but again they are not even close to the playing field that would be required for them to have any influence on anyone they border.
GG politics. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wasn't suggesting they would influence world players like China or Russia, the would be absurd.
However if things work out for the best and a democracy is formed and the new government wishes to except US aid then it is within the realm of plausibility that they could influence nearby "non-players" such as Uzbekistan or Kazakhstan.
It could go any which way though, the old government could be reestablished, although that is unlikely, they could ask Russia for aid instead of us, they could shun the world, although that would be foolish. Heck the country could remain in anarchy for years if nothing is done. Who knows?
Maybe the US should act preemptively, is not the Bush doctrine one of preemption? Nothing gambled nothing gained. We do have a base in the area, as does Russia, could be a good way of testing Russia and China without a direct conflict. Although I doubt Bush or the Republicans are up for or interested in such profitable games.
I do see it as a good idea, but again they are not even close to the playing field that would be required for them to have any influence on anyone they border.
GG politics. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wasn't suggesting they would influence world players like China or Russia, the would be absurd.
However if things work out for the best and a democracy is formed and the new government wishes to except US aid then it is within the realm of plausibility that they could influence nearby "non-players" such as Uzbekistan or Kazakhstan.
It could go any which way though, the old government could be reestablished, although that is unlikely, they could ask Russia for aid instead of us, they could shun the world, although that would be foolish. Heck the country could remain in anarchy for years if nothing is done. Who knows?
Maybe the US should act preemptively, is not the Bush doctrine one of preemption? Nothing gambled nothing gained. We do have a base in the area, as does Russia, could be a good way of testing Russia and China without a direct conflict. Although I doubt Bush or the Republicans are up for or interested in such profitable games. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh I know you were Resa, you have a bit more common sense then that, I was referring to the other lovely commentor.
It would be refreshing to see a third-world country openly solve its own problems without foriegn aid but I don't know if that would be possible for democracy to arise in such a fashion. Usually there has to be some foriegn backing.
However, I do hope it does influence its lesser neighbors so that eventually they can see the prosperity that is possible with peaceful democracy, although I think a republic is a better way of saying it, since after all the US is a republic.
I seem not to be understanding what you're saying here. Of course Kyrgyzstan will have no noticable effect on what the biggies (for lack of a better word) are doing. My reference to lebanon, and the ukraine, and georgia (rose rev) was meant to suggest that those events may have influenced events in kyrgzstan, and that events in kyrgyzstan may influence events elsewhere, in the future. That doesn't demand as much a stretch of imagination as suggesting that the Iraqi war was a direct influence on kyrgyztan, does it?
ot question: what the hell does -stan stand for and why is it behind so many former soviet republics?
I seem not to be understanding what you're saying here. Of course Kyrgyzstan will have no noticable effect on what the biggies (for lack of a better word) are doing. My reference to lebanon, and the ukraine, and georgia (rose rev) was meant to suggest that those events may have influenced events in kyrgzstan, and that events in kyrgyzstan may influence events elsewhere, in the future. That doesn't demand as much a stretch of imagination as suggesting that the Iraqi war was a direct influence on kyrgyztan, does it?
ot question: what the hell does -stan stand for and why is it behind so many former soviet republics? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Basically you are saying that other third-world countries will influence other third-world countries. I thought you were implying it would influence china or some other second-world country. My apologies on the misunderstanding.
The -stan, at the end of most Russian related countries signifies that particular peoples republic. Example, Kyrgyz (russian pronounciation) are the what the native people refer to themselves as, and -stan means it is their republic, thusly, you get Kyrgyzstan.
Same here. OK, back to what reasa was saying.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Maybe the US should act preemptively, is not the Bush doctrine one of preemption? Nothing gambled nothing gained. We do have a base in the area, as does Russia, could be a good way of testing Russia and China without a direct conflict. Although I doubt Bush or the Republicans are up for or interested in such profitable games.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What kind of preemption are we talking specifically? My understanding is that we are currently just looking the other way as far as kyrgystan is concerned. I don't believe they will need help holding an election (monitors will be present, obviously), but it's unclear what will happen yet with the pariliament. Either a new election may be held, or they're going to hold wrestling matches between the old and new parliament until one comes out on top (metaphorically).
<a href='http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=615669' target='_blank'>http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=615669</a>
What that guy said about this being a revolution of 5000 people reminded me a lot of ukraine. Traditionally, revolutions are very rarely the result of popular discontent, but from the actions of a minority group. If you recall from Ukraine, a good half of the country opposed Yuschenko for president, corrupt elections or no. Will the ousting of Akayev help the country? Is akayev responsible for the fact that 40% of the nation is below the poverty line?
In recent years, the new democracies of the old soviet satelite states more and more deteriorated back into autocratic rulership tending towards Russian domination. That supposedly is due to Putins policy of renewed centralisation and the return to controlled market and economy.(which is not too bad for the country btw.)
I case of Ukraine, the spark was more likely the EU expansion and the the membership for certain east european countries that triggered the democratisation process. Ukraine is likely to become one of the next candidates now.
Afaik, negotiations about the matter have already begun (not sure though).
Lebanon is a different story. The people there most certainly used the opportunity of US troops currently in the vicinity to free themselves from Syrian influence. However, Hamas activists suppported by Syria are actually an armed state in the state and the other religious fractions are only temporaryly allied because of the situation. After the religious civil wars, a fragile balanance based on the 3 major fractions was established. Power was devided equally to members of each fraction. Syria however undermined real efforts to forge a lasting peace and so the constant tensions are kept up until now.
Future will show how this develops, and certainly it is not possible without the support of the pro syrian powers. If a civil war brakes loose, I doubt anyone would really care much for it.
As for the peace negotiations in palestine.... well, we could have had this outcome long, loooong before if the would have cut political and financial support for both parties years ago....
Again I stress I have no idea how this came to me. Just a thought.
--Scythe--
This is very true, but perhaps they will be able to refine it themselves?
GG Kyrgyzstan. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
~ DarkATi
Uhm. What? If you're talking about the PATRIOT act and violations of privacy, look up "alien and sedition acts" please. Otherwise, this ad hominem remark is completely useless.
Uhm. What? If you're talking about the PATRIOT act and violations of privacy, look up "alien and sedition acts" please. Otherwise, this ad hominem remark is completely useless. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol
Uhm. What? If you're talking about the PATRIOT act and violations of privacy, look up "alien and sedition acts" please. Otherwise, this ad hominem remark is completely useless. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Umm.. United States isn't a democracy.. its a republic. We have established this in a earlier thread.
I don't see any difference in terms of violation of rights between alien and sedition and loss of privacy, if that's what you're talking about.