Sarisel.::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::.Join Date: 2003-07-30Member: 18557Members, Constellation
edited April 2005
So what..? He's taunting you because you don't have a way of telling legit from non-legit. That's not reason to ban him.
For funbags, you had an aimbot demo. Funbags aimbotted in pubs as well. He doesn't know how to hack well at all. Therefore you got to make an easy decision.
For this one, however, I have a strong hunch that you have just about nothing on him.
You can say that you do, but it really doesn't convince anyone. Photek was never ever even that good to begin with, so I have serious doubts.
And it isn't as though you just randomly throw bans left and right. That would obviously take away any credibility that you have. It's just every now and then, there seems to be this burst of activity where the admins get into groupthink mode and jump to conclusions. It's almost as though it is... personal.
<!--QuoteBegin-MrGunner+Apr 3 2005, 11:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrGunner @ Apr 3 2005, 11:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I mean all else fails you can convert incriminating parts of the demos to avi and post them somewhere. Is it so much to ask to see proof of some sort as opposed to one person getting railroaded by certain people that didn't seem to like him in the first place. I'm all for people getting banned for hacking but I'm going to give them the benifit of doubt until I see conclusive evidence.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree with Gunner on this, if you put everything that made you come to the conclusion in an .avi it would give closure to the ns community, as well as the accused hackers. This way the submitters would keep their identities secret (assuming you could edit out their names if they +showscores), and at the same time quell all controversy about the ban/suspension. I see no downside to this, aside from the 1-2 hours it would take for an admin to put this together. Agreed?
The amount of hypocrisy makes me want to cry. More evidence to proove me innocent. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No, you were definitely aimbotting in that pub.
I do <b>not</b> hack. Yes, I've used buzzhook privately awhile back when I was in Morbid. No I have never ever hacked in a scrim or a match or anything that counts. I'm innocent, What I think happend was Hsu had a demo of me somehow from way back when and is using this to nail me for not 'staying low' because apparently even after I had that conversation with him, people were accusing me of hacking. I'm sure he knows, as well as many others that I dont hack. Hsu even told me (its in the convo) that 1) he dosent think i hack i mean if he did, why didint he ban me right then and there? apparently my demo vs obs and whatever other demo he has is enough. so clearly, he <i>knows</i> I dont cheat. Now I've heard from a couple people that the illegal 3rd party software I was ussing was a program that allows you to By-pass CD. No, I did not use this. infact i've never heard of something like this before. But, yet again, CAL apparently has exclusive evidence that proves this. (I havent seen or heard any of this) I myself really don't care if this 'evidence' is publically released. I just wanna know what it is exactly that I did. I almost feel like I should be getting a different sort of punishment, a susspension for doing what i DID do. which is have a player not in my clan ring in a match. I think Hsu is upset that we tried to do this, therefor went back on his word and banned me for some bs along time ago. I think it's fair that I myself get clairification, so I can be at ease. I play this game more than any other game ive other played, and I take it very seriously. The only reason this is on these forums is because like said before, any time i try to contact hsu, im ignored. I tried something like this on the CAL-ns forums and it was instantly removed. If it's made more clear what it is i apparently did, then maybe I can defend myself better. But like Lynxij said, once your banned its not up for debate. Even though, they do not have to even tell you specifically what your banned for, or provied some kind of proof of it. Anyways, I just wanted to clear things up, I'm not trying to spite nobody or argue just for the sake of agro. I just dont feel like this was dealt with fairly.
<!--QuoteBegin-amnesiac+Apr 4 2005, 08:36 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (amnesiac @ Apr 4 2005, 08:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm innocent, What I think happend was Hsu had a demo of me somehow from way back <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If that is so then CAL admins should be able to dismiss the claims almost immedietly, because the date the demo file was created will be different to the day it was submitted. I'm sure CAL admins can not be so stupid as to not notice that.
EDIT: Might be better to say day of scrim, not submission. Although I'm assuming they reported you straight after your scrim.
CAL's Rules page says: <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Anyone who has been caught cheating at any time from May 2001 forward, whether it be in pubs, LANs, scrims, matches or anything may be suspended from any CAL event.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So Photek's admission to hacking ever is enough to give the CAL Admins the abillity to ban him. Hsu told him to keep clean, and then photek got caught using Cloud King in a scrim. If I was Hsu, I'd be ****.
Did you read our conversation? Hsu said hes ran aimbots in the past aswell. He also said hes not gonna do anything because he dosent think i cheat. if he DID think i cheated then WHY wouldnt he have banned me then? Not to mention Hsu is also Zephor and plays for DL meaning if he has 'tested' cheats in the past and plays for a team, does he automatically exempt the rules too? Hell, I know a lot of players in CAL right now that dont cheat but have tested programs like buzzhook for knowledge and awareness. And like I've said before, AGAIN, yes I should be punished for having a player ring in a match. I'm not disputing that at all... Not to mention admins can interpret the rules any which way they want. (pretty much change them)
If I'm honest from what I have read, this seems as though it is just a case of CAL staff abusing power. Staff <b>should not</b> be allowed to participate in their own league.
EDIT:
Solution? New league or staff. It's a damn shame NS.com doesn't have it's own league anymore, could prove to be quite popular.
<!--QuoteBegin-Thaldarin+Apr 4 2005, 03:23 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Thaldarin @ Apr 4 2005, 03:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If I'm honest from what I have read, this seems as though it is just a case of CAL staff abusing power. Staff <b>should not</b> be allowed to participate in their own league. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Funny, because they all do... CAL-ns|Hsu - Darwins Law CAL-ns|Jeramy - Confederacy CAL-ns|<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> - Slimes
Dosen't really bother me much, just thought I'd add that.
EDIT: It's not as easy as moving onto another league. There are afaik only 2-3 leagues for NS that are worthwhile. GO, CAL, NSI, CAL being the most popular. and GO being euro...it's kinda hard for me to just accept that I've been punk'd and move on. Not to mention I'm sure alot of people still believe that I'am a cheater. New League not the answer. New staff, maybe. I think I should just be suspended for 3 months for having a player ring and have this ban pardonded. I don't get to make that decission though, and as it looks, I don't think they are going to change their minds or even consider it.
<!--QuoteBegin-Router Box+Apr 4 2005, 03:52 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Router Box @ Apr 4 2005, 03:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I imagine in order to properly handle judicial cases involving hacks, it would be wise to actually be familliar with hacks.
I'm sorry photek. It must suck to not be able to play, and to a lesser extent have your e-reputation ruined. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I could use this same statement in my defense. 'the only reason i ever tested the program is the better equip myself with knowledge as to how it works.' Knowledge is power. And as for e-rep. I don't care about yours or mine really. at this point it's pretty damaged so I really don't have much to loose.
<!--QuoteBegin-Router Box+Apr 4 2005, 03:52 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Router Box @ Apr 4 2005, 03:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm sorry photek. It must suck to not be able to play, and to a lesser extent have your e-reputation ruined. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That dosen't seem to sincere. but maybe you're just having trouble expressing your e-feelings.
<!--QuoteBegin-amnesiac+Apr 4 2005, 10:00 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (amnesiac @ Apr 4 2005, 10:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Router Box+Apr 4 2005, 03:52 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Router Box @ Apr 4 2005, 03:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm sorry photek. It must suck to not be able to play, and to a lesser extent have your e-reputation ruined. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That dosen't seem to sincere. but maybe you're just having trouble expressing your e-feelings. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'd say thats sincere, so many people on these forums always read each other wrong and it causes problems.
E-rep? People actually care what others think of them on the internet?
Alot of us have used a hack for self-benefit or to test them out at one point or another. Admins of leagues will have to keep up to date and even have those hacks sitting on their computers still. I am taking a big leap here as I'm judging by this thread only, but CAL really does seem "in the wrong" here.
Amnesiac just ignore all negative attitudes you get from people about this, stop fighting too. Silence is golden, it's a much more powerful tool, especially for the innocent.
<!--QuoteBegin-amnesiac+Apr 4 2005, 04:00 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (amnesiac @ Apr 4 2005, 04:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Router Box+Apr 4 2005, 03:52 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Router Box @ Apr 4 2005, 03:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm sorry photek. It must suck to not be able to play, and to a lesser extent have your e-reputation ruined. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That dosen't seem to sincere. but maybe you're just having trouble expressing your e-feelings. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> no, that was actually honest. I can imagine that it would suck.
What i mean about the e-rep is that even if you magically got the ban overturned, you'd still get a lot of crap about it. I'd imagine it would be hard to find a team, and that your opponants wouldn't be happy about playing you in big matches.
After you play ns competitve for so long, pubs are pretty worthless. Not being able to play in CAL takes pretty much all the fun out of ns, which is obviously something that you have put a lot into. Regardless of your integrity.
That's understandable. However, I don't think it would be very hard for me to find a team if infact the ban was overturned. I'm sure people would stile whine alot, but that just goes with the game. We'll see what happens though. I more so want to see what Hsu has to say than anyone.
a_civilianLikes seeing numbersJoin Date: 2003-01-08Member: 12041Members, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The definition of ringing is allowing a player to play for a team when that player is not on the team's roster. This individual could be playing as himself or under an alias.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->(from the CAL-NS rules list)
<!--QuoteBegin-amnesiac+Apr 4 2005, 01:33 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (amnesiac @ Apr 4 2005, 01:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> That's understandable. However, I don't think it would be very hard for me to find a team if infact the ban was overturned. I'm sure people would stile whine alot, but that just goes with the game. We'll see what happens though. I more so want to see what Hsu has to say than anyone. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You need to get on amps vent soon, k.
<!--QuoteBegin-Sarisel+Apr 4 2005, 12:50 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sarisel @ Apr 4 2005, 12:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Funbags aimbotted in pubs <b>as well.</b> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> All the accusations were in pubs. I forget who submitted the (****) demos, but he specifically said that I never hacked CAL, nor was I ever hacking while in FTA.
All the accusations were in pubs. I forget who submitted the (****) demos, but he specifically said that I never hacked CAL, nor was I ever hacking while in FTA.
jmmsbnd, Fraid I wasn't hacking. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Taken from the Cal website in the rules section <!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->8.30 Cheating
Anyone who has been caught cheating at any time from May 2001 forward, whether it be in pubs, LANs, scrims, matches or anything may be suspended from any CAL event. Please be advised as to what evidence is permissible by CAL. CAL supervisors will review cases and players may be suspended for a period of not less than one year and is subject to review by CAL for readmission after that point. If a player is caught cheating in a CAL match, their team shall forfeit the game, and the team will be suspended from league play until that member has been removed from the team. Any matches played with that player up to that point should have the losses overturned. If a member is caught cheating outside of a CAL match, the suspension shall be enforced on the player with no matches overturned. The computer system that you that you play from is not the responsibility of the Cyberathlete Amateur League. You are responsible for the system that you play from. If you allow others to use your computer(s) or you borrow/rent systems to play from, you need to ensure that they are cheat free prior to playing. It is impossible to trust a player who has been caught cheating on a pub to withstand the temptation to cheat when a title or prize is up for grabs. CAL will not conduct witch hunts to try and find cheat violations against players. If a team is scheduled to play a team with members on blacklists or watch sites, this should be reported to CAL a minimum of 5 days in advance so that an investigation may be conducted. Failure to request the investigation in advance will mean that the suspected individual will be allowed to play in the match. <!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
That pretty much says it all, there is no debating it -
Minstrel_KnightThe truth and nothing but the truth...Join Date: 2002-11-21Member: 9562Banned
edited April 2005
CAL should only allow disputes to be made based on matches due to the recent fiasco with fake hacking demos of jmmsbnd007.
The standard of proof which Hsu used to ban Photek is such that Hsu himself would be banned from CAL in an impartial application of his rules.
If anyone cares to my knowledge Photek never cheated in a match or scrim, Anubis might very well have seeing as he disappeared shortly after the s4 pige0n demo of him was released, and I know that I personally haven't used a cheat since the original team fortress.
Minstrel_KnightThe truth and nothing but the truth...Join Date: 2002-11-21Member: 9562Banned
<!--QuoteBegin-Router Box+Apr 4 2005, 10:57 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Router Box @ Apr 4 2005, 10:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Minstrel, i still haven't seen you post regarding those black walls. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> What would you like to discuss?
<!--QuoteBegin-Minstrel Knight+Apr 4 2005, 09:06 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Minstrel Knight @ Apr 4 2005, 09:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> CAL should only allow disputes to be made based on matches due to the recent fiasco with fake hacking demos of jmmsbnd007.
The standard of proof which Hsu used to ban Photek is such that Hsu himself would be banned from CAL in an impartial application of his rules.
If anyone cares to my knowledge Photek never cheated in a match or scrim, Anubis might very well have seeing as he disappeared shortly after the s4 pige0n demo of him was released, and I know that I personally haven't used a cheat since the original team fortress. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> "Fake demos"? The demo showed jmmsbnd with a s4 pigeon. It was from a marines point of view, yeah it didn't show much. Of course he denies it. And I have asked milk, they aren't edited. But say what you will.
<!--QuoteBegin-Minstrel Knight+Apr 4 2005, 12:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Minstrel Knight @ Apr 4 2005, 12:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Router Box+Apr 4 2005, 10:57 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Router Box @ Apr 4 2005, 10:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Minstrel, i still haven't seen you post regarding those black walls. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> What would you like to discuss? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, there is a screenshot at the top of this thread that shows you playing NS in a clan game with some interesting visual settings. I'm wondering about your thoughts on using blackwalls like that. Is it ethical? Should it be allowed? Is use of blackwalls like that widespread to your knowledge? How did your walls come to be that way? How much of an advantage do you gain from that, and do you think that advantage is ok, both ethically, and legally in terms of cal?
<!--QuoteBegin-slipknotkthx+Apr 4 2005, 11:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (slipknotkthx @ Apr 4 2005, 11:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> "Fake demos"? The demo showed jmmsbnd with a s4 pigeon. It was from a marines point of view, yeah it didn't show much. Of course he denies it. And I have asked milk, they aren't edited. But say what you will. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> So? s4 pige0n proves nothing. It can be added into your config manually, or it could also have been added by old AI bots. If the demo "didn't show much" then chances are there was nothing to see period.
Minstrel_KnightThe truth and nothing but the truth...Join Date: 2002-11-21Member: 9562Banned
<!--QuoteBegin-Router Box+Apr 4 2005, 12:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Router Box @ Apr 4 2005, 12:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well, there is a screenshot at the top of this thread that shows you playing NS in a clan game with some interesting visual settings. I'm wondering about your thoughts on using blackwalls like that. Is it ethical? Should it be allowed? Is use of blackwalls like that widespread to your knowledge? How did your walls come to be that way? How much of an advantage do you gain from that, and do you think that advantage is ok, both ethically, and legally in terms of cal? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'd put it on par with r_drawviewmodel special scripts, no ambient sounds, removing muzzle flashes and the like, probablly less exploitative than the above really.
I don't really have the data to say anything about widespread outside the fact that exigent members have asked me how to use them before along the fact that there is no "safe" way to detect them I'd take a guess and say they are not uncommon in delta clan play.
The rise of blackwalls in the ns community occured after a post on the cal ns forums showing how to install and use blackwalls sat there for two weeks.
Advantage wise is less than tweaking sound distance reverb occlusion settings I expect.
Minstrel_KnightThe truth and nothing but the truth...Join Date: 2002-11-21Member: 9562Banned
edited April 2005
<!--QuoteBegin-DragonMech+Apr 4 2005, 01:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DragonMech @ Apr 4 2005, 01:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-slipknotkthx+Apr 4 2005, 11:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (slipknotkthx @ Apr 4 2005, 11:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> "Fake demos"? The demo showed jmmsbnd with a s4 pigeon. It was from a marines point of view, yeah it didn't show much. Of course he denies it. And I have asked milk, they aren't edited. But say what you will. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> So? s4 pige0n proves nothing. It can be added into your config manually, or it could also have been added by old AI bots. If the demo "didn't show much" then chances are there was nothing to see period. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Anyone with half a brain can hex edit a steam id in a demo to whatever they want. Which is why demos of cheating should only be accepted for matches since otherwise they can easily be faked, unless you want to contact the server admin and look through the logs for ips/real steam id of the player under that name.
Comments
For funbags, you had an aimbot demo. Funbags aimbotted in pubs as well. He doesn't know how to hack well at all. Therefore you got to make an easy decision.
For this one, however, I have a strong hunch that you have just about nothing on him.
You can say that you do, but it really doesn't convince anyone. Photek was never ever even that good to begin with, so I have serious doubts.
And it isn't as though you just randomly throw bans left and right. That would obviously take away any credibility that you have. It's just every now and then, there seems to be this burst of activity where the admins get into groupthink mode and jump to conclusions. It's almost as though it is... personal.
It's stupid. It leaves a sour taste in the mouth.
Now it's no longer worth trolling the forums for.
I agree with Gunner on this, if you put everything that made you come to the conclusion in an .avi it would give closure to the ns community, as well as the accused hackers. This way the submitters would keep their identities secret (assuming you could edit out their names if they +showscores), and at the same time quell all controversy about the ban/suspension. I see no downside to this, aside from the 1-2 hours it would take for an admin to put this together. Agreed?
The amount of hypocrisy makes me want to cry. More evidence to proove me innocent. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, you were definitely aimbotting in that pub.
If that is so then CAL admins should be able to dismiss the claims almost immedietly, because the date the demo file was created will be different to the day it was submitted. I'm sure CAL admins can not be so stupid as to not notice that.
EDIT: Might be better to say day of scrim, not submission. Although I'm assuming they reported you straight after your scrim.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Anyone who has been caught cheating at any time from May 2001 forward, whether it be in pubs, LANs, scrims, matches or anything may be suspended from any CAL event.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So Photek's admission to hacking ever is enough to give the CAL Admins the abillity to ban him. Hsu told him to keep clean, and then photek got caught using Cloud King in a scrim. If I was Hsu, I'd be ****.
CAL is not in the wrong.
Not to mention admins can interpret the rules any which way they want. (pretty much change them)
EDIT:
Solution? New league or staff. It's a damn shame NS.com doesn't have it's own league anymore, could prove to be quite popular.
Funny, because they all do...
CAL-ns|Hsu - Darwins Law
CAL-ns|Jeramy - Confederacy
CAL-ns|<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> - Slimes
Dosen't really bother me much, just thought I'd add that.
EDIT: It's not as easy as moving onto another league. There are afaik only 2-3 leagues for NS that are worthwhile. GO, CAL, NSI, CAL being the most popular. and GO being euro...it's kinda hard for me to just accept that I've been punk'd and move on. Not to mention I'm sure alot of people still believe that I'am a cheater. New League not the answer. New staff, maybe. I think I should just be suspended for 3 months for having a player ring and have this ban pardonded. I don't get to make that decission though, and as it looks, I don't think they are going to change their minds or even consider it.
I'm sorry photek. It must suck to not be able to play, and to a lesser extent have your e-reputation ruined.
I'm sorry photek. It must suck to not be able to play, and to a lesser extent have your e-reputation ruined. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I could use this same statement in my defense. 'the only reason i ever tested the program is the better equip myself with knowledge as to how it works.' Knowledge is power. And as for e-rep. I don't care about yours or mine really. at this point it's pretty damaged so I really don't have much to loose.
That dosen't seem to sincere. but maybe you're just having trouble expressing your e-feelings.
That dosen't seem to sincere. but maybe you're just having trouble expressing your e-feelings. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd say thats sincere, so many people on these forums always read each other wrong and it causes problems.
E-rep? People actually care what others think of them on the internet?
Alot of us have used a hack for self-benefit or to test them out at one point or another. Admins of leagues will have to keep up to date and even have those hacks sitting on their computers still. I am taking a big leap here as I'm judging by this thread only, but CAL really does seem "in the wrong" here.
Amnesiac just ignore all negative attitudes you get from people about this, stop fighting too. Silence is golden, it's a much more powerful tool, especially for the innocent.
That dosen't seem to sincere. but maybe you're just having trouble expressing your e-feelings. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
no, that was actually honest. I can imagine that it would suck.
What i mean about the e-rep is that even if you magically got the ban overturned, you'd still get a lot of crap about it. I'd imagine it would be hard to find a team, and that your opponants wouldn't be happy about playing you in big matches.
After you play ns competitve for so long, pubs are pretty worthless. Not being able to play in CAL takes pretty much all the fun out of ns, which is obviously something that you have put a lot into. Regardless of your integrity.
You need to get on amps vent soon, k.
All the accusations were in pubs. I forget who submitted the (****) demos, but he specifically said that I never hacked CAL, nor was I ever hacking while in FTA.
jmmsbnd, Fraid I wasn't hacking.
Funbags aimbotted in pubs as well.
All the accusations were in pubs. I forget who submitted the (****) demos, but he specifically said that I never hacked CAL, nor was I ever hacking while in FTA.
jmmsbnd, Fraid I wasn't hacking.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Taken from the Cal website in the rules section
<!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->8.30 Cheating
Anyone who has been caught cheating at any time from May 2001 forward, whether it be in pubs, LANs, scrims, matches or anything may be suspended from any CAL event. Please be advised as to what evidence is permissible by CAL. CAL supervisors will review cases and players may be suspended for a period of not less than one year and is subject to review by CAL for readmission after that point. If a player is caught cheating in a CAL match, their team shall forfeit the game, and the team will be suspended from league play until that member has been removed from the team. Any matches played with that player up to that point should have the losses overturned. If a member is caught cheating outside of a CAL match, the suspension shall be enforced on the player with no matches overturned. The computer system that you that you play from is not the responsibility of the Cyberathlete Amateur League. You are responsible for the system that you play from. If you allow others to use your computer(s) or you borrow/rent systems to play from, you need to ensure that they are cheat free prior to playing. It is impossible to trust a player who has been caught cheating on a pub to withstand the temptation to cheat when a title or prize is up for grabs. CAL will not conduct witch hunts to try and find cheat violations against players. If a team is scheduled to play a team with members on blacklists or watch sites, this should be reported to CAL a minimum of 5 days in advance so that an investigation may be conducted. Failure to request the investigation in advance will mean that the suspected individual will be allowed to play in the match. <!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
That pretty much says it all, there is no debating it -
The standard of proof which Hsu used to ban Photek is such that Hsu himself would be banned from CAL in an impartial application of his rules.
If anyone cares to my knowledge Photek never cheated in a match or scrim, Anubis might very well have seeing as he disappeared shortly after the s4 pige0n demo of him was released, and I know that I personally haven't used a cheat since the original team fortress.
What would you like to discuss?
The Cal admin should now be banned? As he did admit to using cheats.
This is none of my business....sorry.
The standard of proof which Hsu used to ban Photek is such that Hsu himself would be banned from CAL in an impartial application of his rules.
If anyone cares to my knowledge Photek never cheated in a match or scrim, Anubis might very well have seeing as he disappeared shortly after the s4 pige0n demo of him was released, and I know that I personally haven't used a cheat since the original team fortress. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
"Fake demos"? The demo showed jmmsbnd with a s4 pigeon. It was from a marines point of view, yeah it didn't show much. Of course he denies it. And I have asked milk, they aren't edited. But say what you will.
What would you like to discuss? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, there is a screenshot at the top of this thread that shows you playing NS in a clan game with some interesting visual settings. I'm wondering about your thoughts on using blackwalls like that. Is it ethical? Should it be allowed? Is use of blackwalls like that widespread to your knowledge? How did your walls come to be that way? How much of an advantage do you gain from that, and do you think that advantage is ok, both ethically, and legally in terms of cal?
So? s4 pige0n proves nothing. It can be added into your config manually, or it could also have been added by old AI bots. If the demo "didn't show much" then chances are there was nothing to see period.
I'd put it on par with r_drawviewmodel special scripts, no ambient sounds, removing muzzle flashes and the like, probablly less exploitative than the above really.
I don't really have the data to say anything about widespread outside the fact that exigent members have asked me how to use them before along the fact that there is no
"safe" way to detect them I'd take a guess and say they are not uncommon in delta clan play.
The rise of blackwalls in the ns community occured after a post on the cal ns forums showing how to install and use blackwalls sat there for two weeks.
Advantage wise is less than tweaking sound distance reverb occlusion settings I expect.
So? s4 pige0n proves nothing. It can be added into your config manually, or it could also have been added by old AI bots. If the demo "didn't show much" then chances are there was nothing to see period. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Anyone with half a brain can hex edit a steam id in a demo to whatever they want. Which is why demos of cheating should only be accepted for matches since otherwise they can easily be faked, unless you want to contact the server admin and look through the logs for ips/real steam id of the player under that name.