Where Are Mineshaft And Agora?

LofungLofung Join Date: 2004-08-21 Member: 30757Members
<div class="IPBDescription">huh?</div> Someday i went into korean server and found them playing agora
i walk in and started downloading
removed!?
omg i missed them!!!
why why why?
where can i get them back?
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Comments

  • HazeHaze O RLY? Join Date: 2003-07-07 Member: 18018Members, Constellation
    Balancing issues is all I can say, but they were absolutely terriffic maps. I'd only suggest for mineshaft that the cafe' felt a little more lived in than it did, maybe one of those bloody handprints on the tables and I'd be happy. Agora though, I'm not sure which map that is, but I usually get them mixed up.

    What ever happened to that map where you could flood the ready room? Was that Agora? Or was it scrapped early as well? That was my <b>favorite</b> map!
  • LofungLofung Join Date: 2004-08-21 Member: 30757Members
    it wass co_rebirth i guess
    RELIABLE CHANNEL OVERFLOW FTW xD
  • JazzXJazzX cl_labelmaps ∞ Join Date: 2002-11-19 Member: 9285Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester
    Their removal was explained <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/ns30faq.html' target='_blank'>here</a> when 3.0 Final was first released.

    Probably your best bet for getting them again would be to download them from a server that is running them, or to grab them from an older version of NS if you still have the installers lying around on your computer.
  • JazzXJazzX cl_labelmaps ∞ Join Date: 2002-11-19 Member: 9285Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester
    Haze is referring to ns_delta, which was made by TommyD who also created Faceoff, Pulse and Tanith. I don't know the official reason it was removed (it was while 2.1/3.0 was still being tested by CMs the FIRST time around, before 3.0Beta1 was released), but I know that Tommy had expressed some dissatisfaction with how the map turned out.
  • HazeHaze O RLY? Join Date: 2003-07-07 Member: 18018Members, Constellation
    Ahh yes, Delta. I loved Delta. (it was an NS map people)
  • theclamtheclam Join Date: 2004-08-01 Member: 30290Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-JazzX+Apr 6 2005, 02:40 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JazzX @ Apr 6 2005, 02:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Haze is referring to ns_delta, which was made by TommyD who also created Faceoff, Pulse and Tanith. I don't know the official reason it was removed (it was while 2.1/3.0 was still being tested by CMs the FIRST time around, before 3.0Beta1 was released), but I know that Tommy had expressed some dissatisfaction with how the map turned out. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    One guy made Faceoff, Pulse <i>and</i> Tanith? Those are some of my favorite maps.
  • Foxtrot_UniformFoxtrot_Uniform Join Date: 2003-06-12 Member: 17328Members
    i loved agora.. it was freakin huge, had tons of hiding places and it was creepy. mineshaft was fun too. they were underplayed.
  • SandstormSandstorm Join Date: 2003-09-25 Member: 21205Members
    The older ns_bast versions are worth trying.
  • theclamtheclam Join Date: 2004-08-01 Member: 30290Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Sandstorm+Apr 6 2005, 03:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sandstorm @ Apr 6 2005, 03:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The older ns_bast versions are worth trying. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The one with the huge elevator in marine start was a great map for last stands. It's basically the only thing that I can remember of my first days of NS.

    I never really liked mineshaft or agora. They were very pretty and atmospheric, but they didn't suit the gameplay style very well, in my opinion.
  • daidalosdaidalos Join Date: 2004-05-23 Member: 28854Members, Constellation
    I miss the old bast with the wending door and the elevator, but the current one is just more balanced so I like it.
    What I really miss is mineshaft and agora. Agora was just a wonderful map and mineshaft reminded me always of alien, because of the cafeteria <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
    R.I.P. I'll miss you <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • QwertyMcDunkinQwertyMcDunkin Join Date: 2002-10-06 Member: 1443Members
    Mineshaft would have been great if U-Turn and the double node had been fixed =/
  • SwiftSwift Lost Keys Join Date: 2005-02-19 Member: 41683Members, Constellation
    How could they remove such great maps out from under us, it bewilders me.

    The atmosphere of infestation is fading away from NS, and all the mappers are refusing to try to turn it around. (Insert random "co_ is **** line here)
  • typical_skeletontypical_skeleton Join Date: 2003-02-24 Member: 13944Members
    Atmosphere of infestation? Okay. "Green moss all over" doesn't really do it for me when it comes to atmosphere, but whatever.

    Mineshaft looked nice in spots, but played like crap. Way too many problems, and if I'm not mistaken, they couldn't be fixed for one reason or another. It's better that it's gone.

    They were removed from "under' you because of serious problems, not just on a whim. So don't be too upset.
  • SwiftSwift Lost Keys Join Date: 2005-02-19 Member: 41683Members, Constellation
    The serious problem being what? It seems to me it was on whim, so it must be. Once it is there, now it is not. simple.

    Hera nd caged were changed drastically, why can't agora and mineshaft? next they will be taking out tanith and veil. gg.
  • typical_skeletontypical_skeleton Join Date: 2003-02-24 Member: 13944Members
    edited April 2005
    The map had a number of glitches, and didn't play very well. They've also been tight-lipped about it, but there was, apparently, a number of serious exploits (as one of the mods for the forum told me). they wouldn't describe it, of course (because mineshaft is played as a custom on some servers, etc, would just be irresponsible).

    some maps can't be changed. when a map is compiled, you can distribute that file, but if the source file is lost, you can't edit it. remember the big nancy rebuild? that was the issue with that, which is why they had to build it from scratch based off the reference of the compiled file.

    I believe mineshaft suffers from this in some way. either the author has vanished or the source was lost, or perhaps he just refuses to modify it (moved on to other projects, etc?). someone else probably has more insight on it.

    and yes, veil and caged would be candidates for removal if they suffered from crippling problems that couldn't be fixed. it only makes sense. you don't release a broken product to the public (atleast, cool developers try to avoid this).

    if they had, I think a lot of people would be whining about how it's broken than about how it's gone.

    EDIT:

    I hope this is not serious?

    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It seems to me it was on whim, so it must be. Once it is there, now it is not. simple.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    what "seems" to you is not always the case. they definitely didn't remove mineshaft or agora for no reason. the reason is explained in the FAQ, was not on a whim.
  • SwiftSwift Lost Keys Join Date: 2005-02-19 Member: 41683Members, Constellation
    Then why not decompile the maps. You can't say it is impossible.
  • typical_skeletontypical_skeleton Join Date: 2003-02-24 Member: 13944Members
    I'm sure they have their reasons.

    too time consuming, no one to do it, couldn't be done without a major undertaking on map modifcation, author doesn't approve, etc.

    and in my experience, mineshaft was largely hated anyway. very few servers played it. maps come and go, don't worry about it.
  • moultanomoultano Creator of ns_shiva. Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
    Agora was an incredibly inspiring map. I can only hope that its issues get fixed promptly so I can have it back again <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->.

    I had some great games on Agora. I felt there was too much in the middle of the map and a lot of redudancy, but the areas around the perimeter were excellent.

    Visually amazing. I wish I was that talented.
  • urinalcakeurinalcake Can&#39;t work a sound card United States Join Date: 2002-11-08 Member: 7799Members
    Besides hera, and nothing.. mineshaft was one of my favorite maps.. although it wasnt the first map i played on, or anything like that.. i really enjoyed mineshaft. all those times hiding in the blackness of the resnode in cafeteria.

    This just opens more room for people to create more maps for NS. Personally, there are ENOUGH co_ and mvm maps and we should see MORE ns_ maps set in the NS universe, that means less seige and fall maps.

    -coughshivacough-
  • DarkFrostDarkFrost Join Date: 2003-04-03 Member: 15154Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Swift+Apr 6 2005, 10:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swift @ Apr 6 2005, 10:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Then why not decompile the maps. You can't say it is impossible. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Decompiling a map breaks it in so many ways.

    Both maps were nice eye candy maps, but suffered from problems, one annoying thing I remember from mineshaft was in marine start, if u walked behind the rt against the wall, you got stuck there, you had to jump back out of the area, even though it was flat ground =/
  • DragonMechDragonMech Join Date: 2003-09-19 Member: 21023Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--QuoteBegin-moultano+Apr 6 2005, 03:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Apr 6 2005, 03:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I wish I was that talented. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    You don't do yourself justice moultano - Shiva is a gorgeous map.
  • c4tc4t Join Date: 2003-09-06 Member: 20619Members
    i just talked to one of the moderators and he said that the creater of ns_agora couldnt be contacted and that it had poor gameplay.


    didnt know mineshaft was out <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    poor map, they were boht good even though i played each twice. i really didnt want to memorize them because is stupid.
  • LofungLofung Join Date: 2004-08-21 Member: 30757Members
    edited April 2005
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->poor map, they were boht good even though i played each twice. i really didnt want to memorize them because is stupid.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Mineshaft has been a offical map since ns2.0 (problaly) as i started to play. now they say it has numerous exploits and removed it? omg its been 1 whole year at lease!

    Edit: So weird i must say

    i think that map should be left alone in the offical pack, leaving the community to choose. Like my regular server, altair eon and nancy never stand a place
  • CageyCagey Ex-Unknown Worlds Programmer Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8829Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Swift+Apr 6 2005, 01:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swift @ Apr 6 2005, 01:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It seems to me it was on whim, so it must be.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    With logic like that, who could possibly argue?

    BTW, there's already a link in this thread to a FAQ that explains the removals.
  • GoDlolGoDlol Join Date: 2005-01-08 Member: 33703Members
    edited April 2005
    Cagey I remember when you used to play on gotrice with me, had no clue at the time that you were such a big guy in the ns scene.

    werent there some other XP- guys on that server? if so where did they go, I know the sg- clan used to play there too, but the only one of them that I have seen around is krazyk
  • BigDBigD [OldF] Join Date: 2002-10-25 Member: 1596Members
    Are the missing maps (mineshaft, agora, rebirth) WIP or gone for good?

    TBH, I can't see how agora's res node displacement was a problem. A couple RT's in the middle just needed to be more spread out. The vent system on that map I had just finally started figuring out too. (I love elaborate vent systems!)
  • TOmekkiTOmekki Join Date: 2003-11-25 Member: 23524Members
    the guys who made them went inactive, i guess thats the reason.

    unless... we all harass mrben to take care of mineshaft and agora!!! yes i think thats the solution.
  • TOmekkiTOmekki Join Date: 2003-11-25 Member: 23524Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-BigD+Apr 7 2005, 12:30 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BigD @ Apr 7 2005, 12:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Are the missing maps (mineshaft, agora, rebirth) WIP or gone for good?

    TBH, I can't see how agora's res node displacement was a problem. A couple RT's in the middle just needed to be more spread out. The vent system on that map I had just finally started figuring out too. (I love elaborate vent systems!) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    agoras vent system was elaborate? haha. nonexistant, more like. ok there were a few vents.
  • SwiftspearSwiftspear Custim tital Join Date: 2003-10-29 Member: 22097Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-TOmekki+Apr 7 2005, 12:50 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TOmekki @ Apr 7 2005, 12:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> the guys who made them went inactive, i guess thats the reason.

    unless... we all harass mrben to take care of mineshaft and agora!!! yes i think thats the solution. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The NS team doen't even HAVE an RMF for mineshaft IIRC... The same reason why nancy was removed several builds ago. Feel free to start a recompile remake of mineshaft (definaty at least confirm with the original author that he doesn't mind) but we are talking about a fair bit more work to make it look right then the nancy one was. Mineshaft is an increadibly elaborate and eyecandy heavy map.

    Agora I belive still has someone working on it, but it is absolutly riddled with problems, and would have been an insane ammount of work to fix for the next beta. I belive SOMEONE said somewhere that we might be seeing a rebuilt version of agora for 3.1, but unless that is confirmed, don't feel confident taking my word for it.
  • XtofXtof Join Date: 2003-04-15 Member: 15514Members
    Hi,

    What I don't understand is that the NS-team doesn't have the RMF-files for the 'official' maps they release. They should take into concideration that the creator leaves, gets very sick or even dies. Even if the NS-team didn't make all of the official maps, there should be a clear agreement between the two parties (NS and the CREATOR).
    The Creator of the map is nothing without NS.

    I liked <u><b>mineshaft</b></u>, it was a good map (with his flaws, but which map doesn't?). All the time I have played mineshaft I wasn't aware of the exploits. I don't know if the NS-team has the RMF-files, but they should have it, so that they can <u><b>fix</b></u> those exploits themselves (if for instance the creator isn't reachable or doen't want to cooperate anymore.).
    <span style='color:red'><b>If</b></span> someone knows about the exploits on mineshaft, he can allways PM me so that I know what exploits they are. I just would like to know them (and keep them for myself without abusing them, as I am against those abuses).

    I also liked <u><b>agora</b></u>, but I have less difficulties that it isn't included into the official NS map-package. This because I think the layout of the map is to complicated to change to make it balanced. But agora was unique and a real architectural masterpiece.

    Overall I think it is a real pity to see mineshaft gone from the official maps. And I hope, in fact, to see it back someday. In my personal opinion I don't think ns_altair is a good map in terms of gameplay. I would choose for ns_mineshaft if I had the choice.

    Hope someone can comment (and PM me) on this.

    Greetz,
    XtOf
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