TBH, I can't see how agora's res node displacement was a problem. A couple RT's in the middle just needed to be more spread out. The vent system on that map I had just finally started figuring out too. (I love elaborate vent systems!) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> agoras vent system was elaborate? haha. nonexistant, more like. ok there were a few vents. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> that tells me you dont know the map. because agora was vent hell!!!
thats why I never played it too much, it was just annoying, not the number of vents, more likely the style. most of the mcompletely dark, you could never tell where they staretd and where they end. exspecially when aliens wanted to get anywhere the system was confusing. but there was nothing wrong with the map itself so... *questionmarks*
mineshaft: the biggest problem had been the high number of ladders in the map. any mapper knows that ladders are onos traps. in my eyes the doubleres had to be fixed to be a single res, the second entrance form the ms had to be separated from the first (to prevent aliens to just camp the front door) and some angled faces where you get had to be fixed. besides that mindeshaft wasnt a bad map. I will allways remeber one of the most professional scenes in my ns history ever: 1 pg, 8 turrets, 3 sieges at u-turn. plus 3 ha. our only chance to keep the hive was to just rush the place. we did. 1 onos, 1 lerk und me, the gorge. and after 3 minutes of confusing, hardcore "you dont have a chance because we will run over you, spore you, umbra, and bilebomb the whole place"-action we did it.
You know, right when 3.0 was first released, the DeadClan server had this really great CO map that had a marine start with three Armories. One of the armories was in this bunker where they could look out and shoot the aliens. The hive was also enclosed in a little bit of a crawlspace - HAs were a much better armor choice than JPs on this level, which was quite a twist from the normal CO map (where JPers generally dominate and HAs are sort of an afterthought).
Subsequent trips to the Dead server and requests for the map have been futile, because nobody can remember which map it was (or perhaps it's been taken away with the patches?).
Which map was this - and furthermore, why was it taken off? It was so much fun.
What I don't understand is that the NS-team doesn't have the RMF-files for the 'official' maps they release. They should take into concideration that the creator leaves, gets very sick or even dies. Even if the NS-team didn't make all of the official maps, there should be a clear agreement between the two parties (NS and the CREATOR). The Creator of the map is nothing without NS.
I liked <u><b>mineshaft</b></u>, it was a good map (with his flaws, but which map doesn't?). All the time I have played mineshaft I wasn't aware of the exploits. I don't know if the NS-team has the RMF-files, but they should have it, so that they can <u><b>fix</b></u> those exploits themselves (if for instance the creator isn't reachable or doen't want to cooperate anymore.). <span style='color:red'><b>If</b></span> someone knows about the exploits on mineshaft, he can allways PM me so that I know what exploits they are. I just would like to know them (and keep them for myself without abusing them, as I am against those abuses).
I also liked <u><b>agora</b></u>, but I have less difficulties that it isn't included into the official NS map-package. This because I think the layout of the map is to complicated to change to make it balanced. But agora was unique and a real architectural masterpiece.
Overall I think it is a real pity to see mineshaft gone from the official maps. And I hope, in fact, to see it back someday. In my personal opinion I don't think ns_altair is a good map in terms of gameplay. I would choose for ns_mineshaft if I had the choice.
Hope someone can comment (and PM me) on this.
Greetz, XtOf <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The NS team doesn't own the maps. They are the intellectual property of the mappers, who aren't paid and certainly shouldn't give up their work to someone else's care. They can't and shouldn't be altered without the original author's permission, which is why the rmf files aren't given to the ns team in the first place. Without the author, it really doesn't matter that they have the map source, does it? <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><span style='color:red'><b>If</b></span> someone knows about the exploits on mineshaft, he can allways PM me so that I know what exploits they are. I just would like to know them (and keep them for myself without abusing them, as I am against those abuses).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ....um...how about no one talk about them, eh? Then you won't have to worry.
And you think agora would be more complicated to change then mineshaft. That's a laugh. Mineshaft's elevation changes alone make it a complicated map; that's not even including the very unique style that makes the entire map actually seem like it could be underground, as opposed to just surrounded by brown walls.
<!--QuoteBegin-DragonMech+Apr 6 2005, 09:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DragonMech @ Apr 6 2005, 09:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-moultano+Apr 6 2005, 03:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Apr 6 2005, 03:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I wish I was that talented. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You don't do yourself justice moultano - Shiva is a gorgeous map. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Couldn't say it better myself! Everyone should check out the ns_shiva beta thread and try this map, it's _really_ worth it!
I'm for one who didn't really enjoy playing on mineshaft because it took me a lot of time to memorize the map. However, I played agora everytime I could because of the great dark atmosphere throughout the map!
NS FAQ <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> A: After lengthy discussion and review we decided its layout and Res Node distribution didn't match NS gameplay well enough, and there simply <i>wasn't time to get in the changes that we felt would be needed to bring it in line with the other official maps.</i> Agora will be missed. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Perhaps there's a chance to see it once again in a future release! I hope it won't have lost its unicity with the changes! Only time will tell!!
I started my NS experience back in 1.0 with ns_bast which was (and still is) pretty dark and creepy. I'd like to see this in more maps! Veil and Eclipse (to some extent) lack of that creepy feeling : most of the hallways are well lit except near the hives <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Anyway, each map has its unicity! Keep up the good work mappers!
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
<!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Apr 7 2005, 05:05 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Apr 7 2005, 05:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The NS team doesn't own the maps. They are the intellectual property of the mappers, who aren't paid and certainly shouldn't give up their work to someone else's care. They can't and shouldn't be altered without the original author's permission, which is why the rmf files aren't given to the ns team in the first place. Without the author, it really doesn't matter that they have the map source, does it? <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><span style='color:red'><b>If</b></span> someone knows about the exploits on mineshaft, he can allways PM me so that I know what exploits they are. I just would like to know them (and keep them for myself without abusing them, as I am against those abuses).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ....um...how about no one talk about them, eh? Then you won't have to worry.
And you think agora would be more complicated to change then mineshaft. That's a laugh. Mineshaft's elevation changes alone make it a complicated map; that's not even including the very unique style that makes the entire map actually seem like it could be underground, as opposed to just surrounded by brown walls. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That isn't true I believe. Any map included with ns becomes the intellectual property of the dev team. Hence why the ns_bast remake project was allowed to proceed. Now I believe it is the policy that any official map has to be accompanied with its rmf, but that doesn't mean that somebody has the time to update it.
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
<!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Apr 7 2005, 05:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Apr 7 2005, 05:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Fine then, but even if they had the source, it wouldn't do much good unless the original mapper waived his rights to it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I think that's part of the agreement. In order for the map to be official, the dev team gains ownership of the intellectual property.
BreakthroughTexture Artist (ns_prometheus)Join Date: 2005-03-27Member: 46620Members, Constellation
NS_Agora was one of my favourite maps, although I didn't quite get it's layout, it was extremely fun and challenging...
I miss Agora <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
<!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Apr 7 2005, 06:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Apr 7 2005, 06:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Then why is it always such a big issue whenever mappers want to update other mapper's work? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I think its a matter of respect to the mapper. Its their baby, their project.
They should just have the mapper sign a contract giving the UWE a copy of the source and saying that if they can't find him, they can have someone else update the map. It's pretty simple.
<!--QuoteBegin-GoDlol+Apr 6 2005, 09:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (GoDlol @ Apr 6 2005, 09:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Cagey I remember when you used to play on gotrice with me, had no clue at the time that you were such a big guy in the ns scene.
werent there some other XP- guys on that server? if so where did they go, I know the sg- clan used to play there too, but the only one of them that I have seen around is krazyk <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, I didn't start out as a dev <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
gotrice.org is XP-Enigma's box, and many of sg- were friends with XP members IRL. I think sg- is gone, and XP is still around but doesn't play much NS any more. Most of the active members are currently playing WoW, actually... I have a few characters myself.
<!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Apr 7 2005, 07:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Apr 7 2005, 07:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> They should just have the mapper sign a contract giving the UWE a copy of the source and saying that if they can't find him, they can have someone else update the map. It's pretty simple. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> After Nancy and Bast were lost, we began requiring source for new maps.
TBH, I can't see how agora's res node displacement was a problem. A couple RT's in the middle just needed to be more spread out. The vent system on that map I had just finally started figuring out too. (I love elaborate vent systems!) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> agoras vent system was elaborate? haha. nonexistant, more like. ok there were a few vents. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> that tells me you dont know the map. because agora was vent hell!!!
thats why I never played it too much, it was just annoying, not the number of vents, more likely the style. most of the mcompletely dark, you could never tell where they staretd and where they end. exspecially when aliens wanted to get anywhere the system was confusing. but there was nothing wrong with the map itself so... *questionmarks*
mineshaft: the biggest problem had been the high number of ladders in the map. any mapper knows that ladders are onos traps. in my eyes the doubleres had to be fixed to be a single res, the second entrance form the ms had to be separated from the first (to prevent aliens to just camp the front door) and some angled faces where you get had to be fixed. besides that mindeshaft wasnt a bad map. I will allways remeber one of the most professional scenes in my ns history ever: 1 pg, 8 turrets, 3 sieges at u-turn. plus 3 ha. our only chance to keep the hive was to just rush the place. we did. 1 onos, 1 lerk und me, the gorge. and after 3 minutes of confusing, hardcore "you dont have a chance because we will run over you, spore you, umbra, and bilebomb the whole place"-action we did it.
memorable. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> no... there were a few vents around the hives but that was about it. there was like 1 vent on the top level
<!--QuoteBegin-Cagey+Apr 7 2005, 10:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cagey @ Apr 7 2005, 10:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Apr 7 2005, 07:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Apr 7 2005, 07:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> They should just have the mapper sign a contract giving the UWE a copy of the source and saying that if they can't find him, they can have someone else update the map. It's pretty simple. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> After Nancy and Bast were lost, we began requiring source for new maps. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Out of curiosity, are there any maps currently in the NS roster that you don't have sourses for?
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Apr 8 2005, 01:12 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Apr 8 2005, 01:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Cagey+Apr 7 2005, 10:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cagey @ Apr 7 2005, 10:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Apr 7 2005, 07:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Apr 7 2005, 07:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> They should just have the mapper sign a contract giving the UWE a copy of the source and saying that if they can't find him, they can have someone else update the map. It's pretty simple. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> After Nancy and Bast were lost, we began requiring source for new maps. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Out of curiosity, are there any maps currently in the NS roster that you don't have sourses for? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I remember submitting a bug report for origin recently and a playtester told me that they wouldn't be able to fix any origin bugs because they lost the source.
TBH, I can't see how agora's res node displacement was a problem. A couple RT's in the middle just needed to be more spread out. The vent system on that map I had just finally started figuring out too. (I love elaborate vent systems!) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> agoras vent system was elaborate? haha. nonexistant, more like. ok there were a few vents. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> that tells me you dont know the map. because agora was vent hell!!!
thats why I never played it too much, it was just annoying, not the number of vents, more likely the style. most of the mcompletely dark, you could never tell where they staretd and where they end. exspecially when aliens wanted to get anywhere the system was confusing. but there was nothing wrong with the map itself so... *questionmarks*
mineshaft: the biggest problem had been the high number of ladders in the map. any mapper knows that ladders are onos traps. in my eyes the doubleres had to be fixed to be a single res, the second entrance form the ms had to be separated from the first (to prevent aliens to just camp the front door) and some angled faces where you get had to be fixed. besides that mindeshaft wasnt a bad map. I will allways remeber one of the most professional scenes in my ns history ever: 1 pg, 8 turrets, 3 sieges at u-turn. plus 3 ha. our only chance to keep the hive was to just rush the place. we did. 1 onos, 1 lerk und me, the gorge. and after 3 minutes of confusing, hardcore "you dont have a chance because we will run over you, spore you, umbra, and bilebomb the whole place"-action we did it.
memorable. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> no... there were a few vents around the hives but that was about it. there was like 1 vent on the top level <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It still amazes me that so many people haven't found all the vents in that map. (I recall not long before 3.0 final released, having a playtester be like "wth? Where'd you come from?" on this map too) The hallways directly south of ms until you get to the room with water is the only area of significance without any vents/good hiding spots. Ironically, the safest route for marines to travel was also the path least taken...
No, the amount of vents in Agora is up there. Many are hidden very well against the background, in places you don't look often. Some are hidden behind infestation/drooping wires (that you can walk right through). This map is a GREAT ambush map, imo. Sadly, I had just finally figured out the vent system on this map before it was cut. I loved the gritty style of the map too. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The same thing would happen with the old altair, that sewer system is a powerful ninja route.
OMG that map rocked. The vents were insane. I had a good clue about them all, but it's still really easy to get lost. I hope it comes back in the next round.
<!--QuoteBegin-JazzX+Apr 6 2005, 02:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JazzX @ Apr 6 2005, 02:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Their removal was explained <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/ns30faq.html' target='_blank'>here</a> when 3.0 Final was first released.
Probably your best bet for getting them again would be to download them from a server that is running them, or to grab them from an older version of NS if you still have the installers lying around on your computer. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> hell. mineshaft was kinda good map
Alcapwn"War is the science of destruction" - John AbbotJoin Date: 2003-06-21Member: 17590Members
I could care less about mineshaft (didnt like its gameplay) but i loved agora. I hope they bring it back in 3.1, but i doubt they will. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I played Mineshaft today. I started a quest, to find out why it was removed. I love this map, i really do....
<!--QuoteBegin-3.0 FAQ+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (3.0 FAQ)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Questions about specific maps Q: What happened to Mineshaft? A: Due to numerous exploits it was decided that it will no longer be distributed as an official map.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not good enough imo, here is why
The mapper Ekaj made Mineshaft, over a long period of time, and obviously a lott of hard work (iirc it started as ns_shaft).It had a great style, and had enourmous attention to detail.
Original Screenies <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/uploads/post-4-1054088724.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/uploads/post-4-1054088675.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/uploads/post-4-1054088769.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> The sexy cafeteria, with its dark hiding spot just beyond the resnode. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/uploads/post-4-1054088819.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/uploads/post-4-1054088863.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
An undeniably atmospheric map, which actualy made you <i>feel</i> like you were in a mining base. I had some fantastic games on this map.
Some quotes from when Ekaj first posted screenies...
<!--QuoteBegin-iced eagle+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (iced eagle)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> wow... are we still in HL?confused.gif those look really amazing with the lighting biggrin.gif i hope its included<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Flayra+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flayra)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Just to confirm, ns_mineshaft will definitely be included in 1.1 (unless it somehow is destroyed or becomes unplayable somehow). Nice job Ekaj, you really knocked us out with this map. Not only is it beautiful, it's extremely efficient.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is a unique and original map, which had its flaws which could be fixed, it had exploits? I beleive everything possible should be done to remove these exploits, fix the map up and preserve this map in NS. It is part of NS history.Why drop it like a hot potato?
Has Ekaj said anything about the map?I didnt find anything
ps:The only reason i see for it not to be updated is that the source rmf was lost. Was it? If it was?? <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I am adding a "Bring Mineshaft Back!" To my Sig, i hope other people will unite, and make our voice heard!
Agore was awesome. One of my favorite maps to play as alien. It was one of the few maps that gave lesser aliens so many tactics with all the vents, dark areas, etc. Bring it back please!!!
<!--QuoteBegin-Zavaro+May 2 2005, 06:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zavaro @ May 2 2005, 06:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Agora and Mineshaft are undoubtably some of the darkest, most atmospheric maps. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I thought Altair was the darkest NS map <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-KungFuDiscoMonkey+May 2 2005, 06:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (KungFuDiscoMonkey @ May 2 2005, 06:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Zavaro+May 2 2005, 06:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zavaro @ May 2 2005, 06:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Agora and Mineshaft are undoubtably some of the darkest, most atmospheric maps. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I thought Altair was the darkest NS map <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
But anyway, I honestly can't really remember any awesome agora games, but as for mineshaft... That thing was really gorgeous. I had a bunch of memorable games during 2.0 and 3.0 on that map.
Nancy and Bast had a remake, why not mineshaft? I'm sure that there are some mappers left that could help on this. (I'm working on ns_fenris by the way, I'm its leader)
<!--QuoteBegin-KungFuDiscoMonkey+May 2 2005, 07:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (KungFuDiscoMonkey @ May 2 2005, 07:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Zavaro+May 2 2005, 06:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zavaro @ May 2 2005, 06:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Agora and Mineshaft are undoubtably some of the darkest, most atmospheric maps. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I thought Altair was the darkest NS map <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, after playing the new altair for a couple of rounds recently, I think it's quite good as it is. Although I still say the middle is a waste, because I've never actually had a battle in any of those rooms.
Mineshaft was a pain in the **** to onos in. Actually, it was a pain in the **** to fade in as well. It was skulk heaven, though.
Comments
TBH, I can't see how agora's res node displacement was a problem. A couple RT's in the middle just needed to be more spread out. The vent system on that map I had just finally started figuring out too. (I love elaborate vent systems!) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
agoras vent system was elaborate? haha. nonexistant, more like. ok there were a few vents. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
that tells me you dont know the map.
because agora was vent hell!!!
thats why I never played it too much, it was just annoying, not the number of vents, more likely the style. most of the mcompletely dark, you could never tell where they staretd and where they end. exspecially when aliens wanted to get anywhere the system was confusing. but there was nothing wrong with the map itself so... *questionmarks*
mineshaft: the biggest problem had been the high number of ladders in the map. any mapper knows that ladders are onos traps. in my eyes the doubleres had to be fixed to be a single res, the second entrance form the ms had to be separated from the first (to prevent aliens to just camp the front door) and some angled faces where you get had to be fixed. besides that mindeshaft wasnt a bad map. I will allways remeber one of the most professional scenes in my ns history ever: 1 pg, 8 turrets, 3 sieges at u-turn. plus 3 ha. our only chance to keep the hive was to just rush the place. we did. 1 onos, 1 lerk und me, the gorge. and after 3 minutes of confusing, hardcore "you dont have a chance because we will run over you, spore you, umbra, and bilebomb the whole place"-action we did it.
memorable.
Subsequent trips to the Dead server and requests for the map have been futile, because nobody can remember which map it was (or perhaps it's been taken away with the patches?).
Which map was this - and furthermore, why was it taken off? It was so much fun.
What I don't understand is that the NS-team doesn't have the RMF-files for the 'official' maps they release. They should take into concideration that the creator leaves, gets very sick or even dies. Even if the NS-team didn't make all of the official maps, there should be a clear agreement between the two parties (NS and the CREATOR).
The Creator of the map is nothing without NS.
I liked <u><b>mineshaft</b></u>, it was a good map (with his flaws, but which map doesn't?). All the time I have played mineshaft I wasn't aware of the exploits. I don't know if the NS-team has the RMF-files, but they should have it, so that they can <u><b>fix</b></u> those exploits themselves (if for instance the creator isn't reachable or doen't want to cooperate anymore.).
<span style='color:red'><b>If</b></span> someone knows about the exploits on mineshaft, he can allways PM me so that I know what exploits they are. I just would like to know them (and keep them for myself without abusing them, as I am against those abuses).
I also liked <u><b>agora</b></u>, but I have less difficulties that it isn't included into the official NS map-package. This because I think the layout of the map is to complicated to change to make it balanced. But agora was unique and a real architectural masterpiece.
Overall I think it is a real pity to see mineshaft gone from the official maps. And I hope, in fact, to see it back someday. In my personal opinion I don't think ns_altair is a good map in terms of gameplay. I would choose for ns_mineshaft if I had the choice.
Hope someone can comment (and PM me) on this.
Greetz,
XtOf <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The NS team doesn't own the maps. They are the intellectual property of the mappers, who aren't paid and certainly shouldn't give up their work to someone else's care. They can't and shouldn't be altered without the original author's permission, which is why the rmf files aren't given to the ns team in the first place. Without the author, it really doesn't matter that they have the map source, does it?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><span style='color:red'><b>If</b></span> someone knows about the exploits on mineshaft, he can allways PM me so that I know what exploits they are. I just would like to know them (and keep them for myself without abusing them, as I am against those abuses).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
....um...how about no one talk about them, eh? Then you won't have to worry.
And you think agora would be more complicated to change then mineshaft. That's a laugh. Mineshaft's elevation changes alone make it a complicated map; that's not even including the very unique style that makes the entire map actually seem like it could be underground, as opposed to just surrounded by brown walls.
You don't do yourself justice moultano - Shiva is a gorgeous map. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Couldn't say it better myself! Everyone should check out the ns_shiva beta thread and try this map, it's _really_ worth it!
I'm for one who didn't really enjoy playing on mineshaft because it took me a lot of time to memorize the map. However, I played agora everytime I could because of the great dark atmosphere throughout the map!
NS FAQ
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
A: After lengthy discussion and review we decided its layout and Res Node distribution didn't match NS gameplay well enough, and there simply <i>wasn't time to get in the changes that we felt would be needed to bring it in line with the other official maps.</i> Agora will be missed.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Perhaps there's a chance to see it once again in a future release! I hope it won't have lost its unicity with the changes! Only time will tell!!
I started my NS experience back in 1.0 with ns_bast which was (and still is) pretty dark and creepy. I'd like to see this in more maps! Veil and Eclipse (to some extent) lack of that creepy feeling : most of the hallways are well lit except near the hives <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Anyway, each map has its unicity! Keep up the good work mappers!
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><span style='color:red'><b>If</b></span> someone knows about the exploits on mineshaft, he can allways PM me so that I know what exploits they are. I just would like to know them (and keep them for myself without abusing them, as I am against those abuses).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
....um...how about no one talk about them, eh? Then you won't have to worry.
And you think agora would be more complicated to change then mineshaft. That's a laugh. Mineshaft's elevation changes alone make it a complicated map; that's not even including the very unique style that makes the entire map actually seem like it could be underground, as opposed to just surrounded by brown walls. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That isn't true I believe. Any map included with ns becomes the intellectual property of the dev team. Hence why the ns_bast remake project was allowed to proceed. Now I believe it is the policy that any official map has to be accompanied with its rmf, but that doesn't mean that somebody has the time to update it.
And there's always the chance that it was just lost in the shuffle during the move or something.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think that's part of the agreement. In order for the map to be official, the dev team gains ownership of the intellectual property.
I miss Agora <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I think its a matter of respect to the mapper. Its their baby, their project.
werent there some other XP- guys on that server? if so where did they go, I know the sg- clan used to play there too, but the only one of them that I have seen around is krazyk <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, I didn't start out as a dev <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
gotrice.org is XP-Enigma's box, and many of sg- were friends with XP members IRL. I think sg- is gone, and XP is still around but doesn't play much NS any more. Most of the active members are currently playing WoW, actually... I have a few characters myself.
After Nancy and Bast were lost, we began requiring source for new maps.
TBH, I can't see how agora's res node displacement was a problem. A couple RT's in the middle just needed to be more spread out. The vent system on that map I had just finally started figuring out too. (I love elaborate vent systems!) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
agoras vent system was elaborate? haha. nonexistant, more like. ok there were a few vents. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that tells me you dont know the map.
because agora was vent hell!!!
thats why I never played it too much, it was just annoying, not the number of vents, more likely the style. most of the mcompletely dark, you could never tell where they staretd and where they end. exspecially when aliens wanted to get anywhere the system was confusing. but there was nothing wrong with the map itself so... *questionmarks*
mineshaft: the biggest problem had been the high number of ladders in the map. any mapper knows that ladders are onos traps. in my eyes the doubleres had to be fixed to be a single res, the second entrance form the ms had to be separated from the first (to prevent aliens to just camp the front door) and some angled faces where you get had to be fixed. besides that mindeshaft wasnt a bad map. I will allways remeber one of the most professional scenes in my ns history ever: 1 pg, 8 turrets, 3 sieges at u-turn. plus 3 ha. our only chance to keep the hive was to just rush the place. we did. 1 onos, 1 lerk und me, the gorge. and after 3 minutes of confusing, hardcore "you dont have a chance because we will run over you, spore you, umbra, and bilebomb the whole place"-action we did it.
memorable. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
no... there were a few vents around the hives but that was about it. there was like 1 vent on the top level
After Nancy and Bast were lost, we began requiring source for new maps. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Out of curiosity, are there any maps currently in the NS roster that you don't have sourses for?
After Nancy and Bast were lost, we began requiring source for new maps. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Out of curiosity, are there any maps currently in the NS roster that you don't have sourses for? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I remember submitting a bug report for origin recently and a playtester told me that they wouldn't be able to fix any origin bugs because they lost the source.
TBH, I can't see how agora's res node displacement was a problem. A couple RT's in the middle just needed to be more spread out. The vent system on that map I had just finally started figuring out too. (I love elaborate vent systems!) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
agoras vent system was elaborate? haha. nonexistant, more like. ok there were a few vents. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that tells me you dont know the map.
because agora was vent hell!!!
thats why I never played it too much, it was just annoying, not the number of vents, more likely the style. most of the mcompletely dark, you could never tell where they staretd and where they end. exspecially when aliens wanted to get anywhere the system was confusing. but there was nothing wrong with the map itself so... *questionmarks*
mineshaft: the biggest problem had been the high number of ladders in the map. any mapper knows that ladders are onos traps. in my eyes the doubleres had to be fixed to be a single res, the second entrance form the ms had to be separated from the first (to prevent aliens to just camp the front door) and some angled faces where you get had to be fixed. besides that mindeshaft wasnt a bad map. I will allways remeber one of the most professional scenes in my ns history ever: 1 pg, 8 turrets, 3 sieges at u-turn. plus 3 ha. our only chance to keep the hive was to just rush the place. we did. 1 onos, 1 lerk und me, the gorge. and after 3 minutes of confusing, hardcore "you dont have a chance because we will run over you, spore you, umbra, and bilebomb the whole place"-action we did it.
memorable. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
no... there were a few vents around the hives but that was about it. there was like 1 vent on the top level <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It still amazes me that so many people haven't found all the vents in that map. (I recall not long before 3.0 final released, having a playtester be like "wth? Where'd you come from?" on this map too) The hallways directly south of ms until you get to the room with water is the only area of significance without any vents/good hiding spots. Ironically, the safest route for marines to travel was also the path least taken...
No, the amount of vents in Agora is up there. Many are hidden very well against the background, in places you don't look often. Some are hidden behind infestation/drooping wires (that you can walk right through). This map is a GREAT ambush map, imo. Sadly, I had just finally figured out the vent system on this map before it was cut. I loved the gritty style of the map too. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The same thing would happen with the old altair, that sewer system is a powerful ninja route.
I'm having trouble remembering agora. What were the hives? What did MS look like?
Isn't there any site that has minimap images for all the maps?
edit: found in the map feedback thread.
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/uploads/post-39-1083569529.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
OMG that map rocked. The vents were insane. I had a good clue about them all, but it's still really easy to get lost. I hope it comes back in the next round.
Probably your best bet for getting them again would be to download them from a server that is running them, or to grab them from an older version of NS if you still have the installers lying around on your computer. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
hell. mineshaft was kinda good map
<!--QuoteBegin-3.0 FAQ+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (3.0 FAQ)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Questions about specific maps
Q: What happened to Mineshaft?
A: Due to numerous exploits it was decided that it will no longer be distributed as an official map.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not good enough imo, here is why
The mapper Ekaj made Mineshaft, over a long period of time, and obviously a lott of hard work (iirc it started as ns_shaft).It had a great style, and had enourmous attention to detail.
Original Screenies
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/uploads/post-4-1054088724.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/uploads/post-4-1054088675.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/uploads/post-4-1054088769.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
The sexy cafeteria, with its dark hiding spot just beyond the resnode.
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/uploads/post-4-1054088819.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/uploads/post-4-1054088863.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
An undeniably atmospheric map, which actualy made you <i>feel</i> like you were in a mining base. I had some fantastic games on this map.
Some quotes from when Ekaj first posted screenies...
<!--QuoteBegin-iced eagle+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (iced eagle)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> wow... are we still in HL?confused.gif those look really amazing with the lighting biggrin.gif i hope its included<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Flayra+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flayra)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Just to confirm, ns_mineshaft will definitely be included in 1.1 (unless it somehow is destroyed or becomes unplayable somehow). Nice job Ekaj, you really knocked us out with this map. Not only is it beautiful, it's extremely efficient.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is a unique and original map, which had its flaws which could be fixed, it had exploits? I beleive everything possible should be done to remove these exploits, fix the map up and preserve this map in NS. It is part of NS history.Why drop it like a hot potato?
Has Ekaj said anything about the map?I didnt find anything
ps:The only reason i see for it not to be updated is that the source rmf was lost. Was it? If it was?? <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I am adding a "Bring Mineshaft Back!" To my Sig, i hope other people will unite, and make our voice heard!
I thought Altair was the darkest NS map <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I thought Altair was the darkest NS map <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
But anyway, I honestly can't really remember any awesome agora games, but as for mineshaft... That thing was really gorgeous. I had a bunch of memorable games during 2.0 and 3.0 on that map.
Nancy and Bast had a remake, why not mineshaft? I'm sure that there are some mappers left that could help on this. (I'm working on ns_fenris by the way, I'm its leader)
I thought Altair was the darkest NS map <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, after playing the new altair for a couple of rounds recently, I think it's quite good as it is. Although I still say the middle is a waste, because I've never actually had a battle in any of those rooms.
Mineshaft was a pain in the **** to onos in. Actually, it was a pain in the **** to fade in as well. It was skulk heaven, though.
I miss my mineshaft.
Double res ftw!
Heh, and U-Turn siege!
EDIT: HOLY CRAP! I was wondering where Agora went! I loved that map! Dag-gonnit.
Bring them back in NS:S! Like they're doing with CS:S and port.
I am sure evry single person here is sad that it has gone. At least 95% of the community is ...
BRING IT BACK!!! (Look at sig down below)