I personally believe that if you want to be involved with more than one person at once and everyone person concerned is fully aware of it and doesn't mind then it's fine. Absolutely nothing wrong with it.
Should they be allowed to marry? Well I'm not sure if it could really be considered marriage really <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->marriage
n 1: the state of being a married couple voluntarily joined for life (or until divorce); "a long and happy marriage"; "God bless this union" [syn: matrimony, union, spousal relationship, wedlock] n 2: two people who are married to each other; "his second marriage was happier than the first"; "a married couple without love"<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A marriage is a legal commitment between two people. Maybe if a group thing was given a different name (commune? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->) then that would be okay.
About polygamy being more about lust. Yes, many 'group' relationships are founded on lust instead of love, while it's possible to love two people at once what is the chances that the two people you love feel the same way about each other? Very slight. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen though and if they do then there is nothing wrong with it at all.
Good to be back in the discussion forum <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I've heard a few people suggest, in this very forum, that Marriage be considered a religious term, not a legal one. As a result, the Government would recognize a Marriage as a Civil Union.
Personally, I don't think the Government has any business worrying about the sanctity of Marriage. I certainly don't think the Government should deny a legal status to someone solely based on their sexual preferences.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->About polygamy being more about lust. Yes, many 'group' relationships are founded on lust instead of love, while it's possible to love two people at once what is the chances that the two people you love feel the same way about each other? Very slight. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen though and if they do then there is nothing wrong with it at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-DarkATi+Apr 8 2005, 04:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkATi @ Apr 8 2005, 04:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->About polygamy being more about lust. Yes, many 'group' relationships are founded on lust instead of love, while it's possible to love two people at once what is the chances that the two people you love feel the same way about each other? Very slight. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen though and if they do then there is nothing wrong with it at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
*nods head* I fully agree with all of the above.
~ DarkATi <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> concur as well.
When you mention polygamy, you're diving into the realms of "oh hell no."
My point; In my eyes, marriage is a union of two people, regardless of gender, a comittment of love and utmost dedication to each other. Introducing polygamy, the whole point of marriage is killed; A good deal of people in their right mind will not bother with look "for that special person", but marry x-amount of women out of sheer lust. THEY don't have to worry about being faithful to one wife, he can always fall back on the others. Now, as for the wife, you bring about LARGE amounts of jealousy. Women by nature, LOVE being that one person of centralized attention, knowing they are the one women her husband loves. If said husband had another wife/wives, she'd feel left out. And possibly get ****. As most do. So, polygamy is very much a bad idea, on the level of natural human behaviours.
my $.02. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I don't understand why some people are getting caught in the semantics of marriage. Just like many people believe that homosexuals should get civil unions, but not marriages, some people here think that polygamy is ok, but not if you call it marriage. 50 years ago, marriage was a union between one man and one woman of the same race, but now it's just one man and one woman (and probably eventually just two people without a specified sex). Who cares if the definition of marriage changes to accomodate polygamy?
so, how bout if i have 34 wives, but some of my wives also have multiple husbands. so i can be married to some wives, but be co-husbands with some other people who share my wives, who are also [g-a-y]-married to some other bisexual men, and some of my wives can be transvestites who practice beastiality? what a great country!
I believe you should be able to have has many wives/husbands as you and they wish. Remember though: one spouse is a great deal of work and love you have to give for each additionally you have to multiply that in some cases with some exponentially. It is not a weird concept for me to think of a three person couple instead of a two person. Why does society think it is bad? <i>Why some much hate for people who are different from you?</i> It really pisses me off, especially when the government starts telling you how to love. If that is illegal, then I believe I don't give a ****.
vote <span style='color:green'><b>yes</b></span>
<!--QuoteBegin-artica+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (artica)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-DarkATi+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkATi)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->About polygamy being more about lust. Yes, many 'group' relationships are founded on lust instead of love, while it's possible to love two people at once what is the chances that the two people you love feel the same way about each other? Very slight. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen though and if they do then there is nothing wrong with it at all. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
*nods head* I fully agree with all of the above. ~ DarkATi <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> concur as well. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> As do I. I think I would love to be married to two women (as difficult as it would be hehe) but the odds of both of them loving each other? Slim. Extremely slim. Like winning the Powerball lucky.
Polygamy as well as Homosexual marriage should be legal. It is not our place nor is it the government's to deem acts between consenting adults without directly affecting society as moral or immoral. The only reason I'd oppose polygamy specifically is how easy it'd be to abuse with the current system instilled. However, it's pretty arrogant to think that specifications couldn't be addressed in the case of the legalization of simultaneous unions.
Remember when you're agruing that there are two seperate issues. The morality and the legality. You can argue in many ways why something should be illegal morally, but if you want to ban people from doing something that YOU see as immoral, you have to come up with a legal argument as to why you should have the right to do so.
<!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Apr 6 2005, 08:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Apr 6 2005, 08:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well first of all, **** marriages aren't really legal yet. They're legal in what, 2/50 states so far? 3? Something like that. The point is, people are still working on accepting homosexuals marrying, and there is still a HUGE debate raging on that subject. Throw polygamy in the mix now, and this country will frickin explode. Basically, this just isn't a good time to have a discussion on this issue.
However, if you really wanted to ponder polygamy, then here is why it really shouldn't be legalized: it would cause utter CHAOS in the bureaucracy and in the courts. Think of divorces; if a woman divorced her husband, would she receive half of the estate even if the husband still had 3 wives at home? That doesn't seem entirely fair to the other 3 wives. Entirely new forms will have to be created, whole sections of the bureaucracy that deal with marriages and such will have to be revamped, laws concerning the rights of spouses will have to be rethought, etc etc. It's not as simple as just saying, "Yes, all 12 of you can get married"; there will be large upheavals in the social system and order in order for polygamy to be an acceptably streamlined protected institution.
Also, as far as benefits are concerned, you don't just get automatic tax breaks for getting married. You simply can choose to file your taxes jointly, which will land you in a better bracket, assuming of course one spouse makes the majority of the money. So, it's not like more wives = MORE MONEY FTW! or anything. <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Also, interesting choice of first post. Welcome to the forums. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't believe homosexuals should be allowed to marry
WHy?
Because it was not what was intended for us... otherwise males could give birth to children...
I dun care if ppl are ****... just DO NOT hit on me or I'll farkin rip your head off and **** down yer neck... I HATE IT when **** people hit on me... *shudder*
Because it was not what was intended for us... otherwise males could give birth to children...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't believe humans should fly. Why? Because it was not intended for us... otherwise we would have wings.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I dun care if ppl are ****... just DO NOT hit on me or I'll farkin rip your head off and **** down yer neck... I HATE IT when **** people hit on me... *shudder*<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm sure it happens all the time. Really, unless you just happen to put off some sort of homosexual vibe that makes you a magnet for men of that persuasion, I find it extreemly unlikely that you've ever been hit on by a homosexual in your entire life, let alone enough that it would be a nuscience to you. More likely you have some serious issues with your own sexuality that cause you to react irrationaly when your sexuality is questioned. Grow up.
<!--QuoteBegin-BulletHead+Apr 15 2005, 03:12 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BulletHead @ Apr 15 2005, 03:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I don't believe homosexuals should be allowed to marry
WHy?
Because it was not what was intended for us... otherwise males could give birth to children...
I dun care if ppl are ****... just DO NOT hit on me or I'll farkin rip your head off and **** down yer neck... I HATE IT when **** people hit on me... *shudder* <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Not intended for us? By whom? Have you any proof? Pleny of animals are homosexual and they rarely get struck by lightning.
Since when has marriage been about children? What about when technology has progressed enough that men can give birth? When gender is an option rather than something you're born with. Will you change your mind then?
I don't care if people are stupid or prejudiced... just DO NOT post where I can read it or I'll be forced to reply... I HATE IT when I have to read abusive, prejudiced, badly written posts from children that try to dodge the filter just because they are incapable of expressing their illformed opinions in any other way.
Oh and I can assure you, you almost certainly don't have to worry about people hitting on you, male or female.
<!--QuoteBegin-BulletHead+Apr 14 2005, 10:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BulletHead @ Apr 14 2005, 10:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I dun care if ppl are ****... just DO NOT hit on me or I'll farkin rip your head off and **** down yer neck... I HATE IT when **** people hit on me... *shudder* <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Hey, baby. Want me to show you a good time?
Is it alright for lesbian couples to marry? All they need is artifical insemination/a willing (but disposible) guy in order to have children.
<!--QuoteBegin-BulletHead+Apr 14 2005, 10:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BulletHead @ Apr 14 2005, 10:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Apr 6 2005, 08:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Apr 6 2005, 08:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well first of all, **** marriages aren't really legal yet. They're legal in what, 2/50 states so far? 3? Something like that. The point is, people are still working on accepting homosexuals marrying, and there is still a HUGE debate raging on that subject. Throw polygamy in the mix now, and this country will frickin explode. Basically, this just isn't a good time to have a discussion on this issue.
However, if you really wanted to ponder polygamy, then here is why it really shouldn't be legalized: it would cause utter CHAOS in the bureaucracy and in the courts. Think of divorces; if a woman divorced her husband, would she receive half of the estate even if the husband still had 3 wives at home? That doesn't seem entirely fair to the other 3 wives. Entirely new forms will have to be created, whole sections of the bureaucracy that deal with marriages and such will have to be revamped, laws concerning the rights of spouses will have to be rethought, etc etc. It's not as simple as just saying, "Yes, all 12 of you can get married"; there will be large upheavals in the social system and order in order for polygamy to be an acceptably streamlined protected institution.
Also, as far as benefits are concerned, you don't just get automatic tax breaks for getting married. You simply can choose to file your taxes jointly, which will land you in a better bracket, assuming of course one spouse makes the majority of the money. So, it's not like more wives = MORE MONEY FTW! or anything. <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Also, interesting choice of first post. Welcome to the forums. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't believe homosexuals should be allowed to marry
WHy?
Because it was not what was intended for us... otherwise males could give birth to children...
I dun care if ppl are ****... just DO NOT hit on me or I'll farkin rip your head off and **** down yer neck... I HATE IT when **** people hit on me... *shudder* <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Why would you get so angry unless you get a feeling of confusion and curiosity?
I've been hit on by guys before, just be nice and say I don't swing that way but thanks anyway and move on. Lifes too short to get hung up on the fact someone who has a different lifestyle flirted with you.
NO to **** marriage <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> NO to polygamy <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> NO to liberal hippies and freaks <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
let's all start heterosexual relationships with a lifelong commitment to your ONE spouse and have NORMAL fricken families.
If we do it purely by numbers then the 'normal' marriage lasts a couple of years before they have a divorce. And last I heard one in ten people are homosexual. Is one in ten not large enough to be considered normal? In that case there are quite a few abnormal people running around with ginger hair or green eyes. "Digusting! To the gas chambers with them!"
NO to random opinions with no facts or explanations to back them. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
[Edit] Heh, two against one, we're more normal, we win <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> [/Edit]
"Normal" is not representative in American society. It's not your business if two men love eachother. It's not your business if a man cheats on his wife. It's not your business if somebody enjoys threesomes in the evening. Stop treating it as though it is.
<!--QuoteBegin-Antrel+Apr 15 2005, 09:23 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Antrel @ Apr 15 2005, 09:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> "Normal" is not representative in American society. It's not your business if two men love eachother. It's not your business if a man cheats on his wife. It's not your business if somebody enjoys threesomes in the evening. Stop treating it as though it is. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> it is my business if they want to change the law to make those things legal. laws that relfects values that i hold dear, and their behavior crosses the threshold of behaviors for which i deem acceptable. society as a whole will decide what is or is not normal. and right now, the majority says no to homo marriages and no to polygamy. if you don't like it you can get on a boat and form your own country, or you can go to jail.
Why in the world does this forum keep coming back to issues covered in "Brave New World?"
Not the best telling, still a little confused, but sure helps you to see what is happening.
Imagine a world were society is based on a bunch of pleasure seeking individuals? The moral code based on what you want alone? You people are attempting to make some sort of moral high ground based on: "If it isn't me it doesn't matter and if I want something I should have it"
<!--QuoteBegin-kill4thrills+Apr 15 2005, 11:16 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kill4thrills @ Apr 15 2005, 11:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Antrel+Apr 15 2005, 09:23 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Antrel @ Apr 15 2005, 09:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> "Normal" is not representative in American society. It's not your business if two men love eachother. It's not your business if a man cheats on his wife. It's not your business if somebody enjoys threesomes in the evening. Stop treating it as though it is. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> it is my business if they want to change the law to make those things legal. laws that relfects values that i hold dear, and their behavior crosses the threshold of behaviors for which i deem acceptable. society as a whole will decide what is or is not normal. and right now, the majority says no to homo marriages and no to polygamy. if you don't like it you can get on a boat and form your own country, or you can go to jail. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Last time I checked 6 or 7 states is not the majority in the country.
Also, if it isn't illegal then it is legal in many states mine included.
Society is the organization that breeds moral acceptance and any breaches of it. It is not the government's role to do so. Just because society thinks something is good or bad doesn't mean the government should be reflective upon it. Slavery was a bad thing, but at the time, it could be safe to say that the majority of Americans didn't oppose it.
If you're trying to deny people something based on your OPINION, you better damn well back up that opinion with logical argument. Give me a list of reasons as to why homosexuals should not be permitted to apply for civil union. Because you feel it's bad? Because the Bible says it's wrong? The truth is that whatever two men do consensually in the bedroom has no direct impact on the outlying society. The fact that two men (or women) love eachother has no direct negative influence on society. American society simply makes it that way as a result of biggotry and conservatism.
So until you can give me a real reason why you should be making what's not your business your business, don't talk about it.
<!--QuoteBegin-kill4thrills+Apr 15 2005, 12:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kill4thrills @ Apr 15 2005, 12:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Antrel+Apr 15 2005, 09:23 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Antrel @ Apr 15 2005, 09:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> "Normal" is not representative in American society. It's not your business if two men love eachother. It's not your business if a man cheats on his wife. It's not your business if somebody enjoys threesomes in the evening. Stop treating it as though it is. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> it is my business if they want to change the law to make those things legal. laws that relfects values that i hold dear, and their behavior crosses the threshold of behaviors for which i deem acceptable. society as a whole will decide what is or is not normal. and right now, the majority says no to homo marriages and no to polygamy. if you don't like it you can get on a boat and form your own country, or you can go to jail. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Since when are your personal values reflected in the government? Does that means you agree with every single policy of this administration? I mean, if it doesn't affect you personally, why do you care? Believe it or not, the rest of the world will NOT look down on America, or you individually (if they really cared), if we accept **** marriage. Heck, a lot of them have legalized it already, or at least aren't standing in its way.
And you're wrong about society. The majority doesn't decide public policy in the USA. That's a democracy; we are only a democracy when election time comes. The rest of the time, we are a republic. The difference is that, in a democracy, the majority rules all the time, however in our society we do what is best for the entire population. Look at affirmative action. Something like that would NEVER pass in a pure democracy, because pure democracies don't look out for minorities' rights. Our government, on the other hand, is designed to cater to EVERYONE, not just the majority.
In the case of **** marriage, the minority has everything to gain while the majority has nothing to lose, except possibly a bit of self-esteem. In all the topics on homosexuality on this forum, there has not yet been one decent argument that holds up to the facts; most don't even hold up to common sense, and a few don't even get past the line of decency. Seriously, why does anybody care? Will your marriage be affected by this? Your children's? Will your life be in any way different the day after *** are allowed to marry? The answer is, obviously, no; the only people who think this will have an affect on them are those who oppose it just because it seems to go against their definition of morality. As if anyone who is crusading against **** marriage were a perfect example of pristine morality.
The only reason **** marriage is still being opposed is because we have a president who can't seem to get it through his head that this is NOT a Christian nation, and that public policy should NOT be based on his religious beliefs. Affected by them, of course; they are part of who he is. But <u>based</u> on them, absolutely not.
<!--QuoteBegin-kill4thrills+Apr 15 2005, 05:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kill4thrills @ Apr 15 2005, 05:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> it is my business if they want to change the law to make those things legal. laws that relfects values that i hold dear, and their behavior crosses the threshold of behaviors for which i deem acceptable. society as a whole will decide what is or is not normal. and right now, the majority says no to homo marriages and no to polygamy. if you don't like it you can get on a boat and form your own country, or you can go to jail.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In many countries it isn't illegal and in fact there is a massive precedent for it being legalised. If everyone had the power to ban things they find 'unacceptable' then we wouldn't get to play games because of the affect it has on our minds. We wouldn't listen to any of the music we currently do because at some point all music has been seen as having a negative effect on the populace. Alcohol? Nope. The guns that so many Americans fight for (and with)? Nope. What about different races? Nope.
As I hinted earlier, the way you are thinking is basically a brand of fascism.
Oh and I notice you didn't address any of the points I mentioned earlier too... surprise.
<!--QuoteBegin-Gwahir+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gwahir)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If it isn't me it doesn't matter and if I want something I should have it<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not at all. It's a bit more like "If it doesn't hurt anyone at all and is their private business then why can't they have it?". So? Why can't they? About the only answer we've had is K4T's "Because I don't want them too and... well these people behind me think the same". Ok so you don't want it because you don't like it. We've established that. Would anyone like to explain why it's actually <i>bad</i>?
Oh and if we are picking out scifi to use as valid points what about Iain M.Banks culture novels? They can be any gender they want, do or say anything they want. There are no rules, no monetary systems, no crime, no unhappy people, no intolerance or prejudice. They have changed the human form so at any time they can feel any emotion they want, inject drugs straight from their own glands, change their sex, live as long as they want at any age they want. Oh and they are one of the most powerful civilisations in the galaxy.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In all the topics on homosexuality on this forum, there has not yet been one decent argument that holds up to the facts; most don't even hold up to common sense, and a few don't even get past the line of decency. Seriously, why does anybody care? Will your marriage be affected by this? Your children's? Will your life be in any way different the day after *** are allowed to marry? The answer is, obviously, no; the only people who think this will have an affect on them are those who oppose it just because it seems to go against their definition of morality. As if anyone who is crusading against **** marriage were a perfect example of pristine morality.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> QFGJ
alright, i don't have time right now to spell out everythign that is wrong with homosexuality, but here is a brief outline:
1. homosexuality is un-natural. it goes against the drive to procreate, because same sex couples cannot procreate without artificial means
2. homosexual behavior can be induced in mice by the switching of genes. this was in a tv program i saw, and reinforces my theory that homosexuality is a disease, or genetic defect, or even a mental illness.
3. having said (2), i think homosexual behavior should not be promoted, but studied, quarantined, and cured.
4. there is a difference between progression of liberal rights, and decline into decadence. this is, of course, open to personal opinion, and it is my opinion that homosexual behavior and polygamy are beyond the threshold of decency in society. argue what you may, you will not change my view of this
5. homosexuality will not affect me or my children? i don't want to see **** couples in public. i dont' want my children to see, and imitate their behavior. monkey see, monkey do, and as much as dads hate to see their boys play with barbies, we don't want our sons to be homos either. same goes for daughters.
6. majority of people accept homosexuality? i'm conifident that if there was a referendum at this very moment, homo marriages will not be approved. i don't like george bush much, but i like his stance on protecting the sanctity of marriage. i hope the constitution gets ammended.
<!--QuoteBegin-kill4thrills+Apr 15 2005, 02:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kill4thrills @ Apr 15 2005, 02:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> alright, i don't have time right now to spell out everythign that is wrong with homosexuality, but here is a brief outline:
1. homosexuality is un-natural. it goes against the drive to procreate, because same sex couples cannot procreate without artificial means <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Who cares? There are plenty of straight couples who can't procreate without artificial means.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 2. homosexual behavior can be induced in mice by the switching of genes. this was in a tv program i saw, and reinforces my theory that homosexuality is a disease, or genetic defect, or even a mental illness.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> And the mentally ill aren't allowed to get married? Even if your contention is true (which I doubt) why would that matter?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 3. having said (2), i think homosexual behavior should not be promoted, but studied, quarantined, and cured.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If homosexuality is a "disease", it is certainly not contageous, so why quarentine anybody? Also, if the contention were true, what if they don't want to be cured?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 4. there is a difference between progression of liberal rights, and decline into decadence. this is, of course, open to personal opinion, and it is my opinion that homosexual behavior and polygamy are beyond the threshold of decency in society. argue what you may, you will not change my view of this<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Again, who cares? The purpose of law is not to enforce morality or decency (except perhaps in public places), it is to protect individual freedoms.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->5. homosexuality will not affect me or my children? i don't want to see **** couples in public.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't want to see people eat mayonaise in public. Stop it, it makes me sick you weirdo. I should write a law and amend the constitution!
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->i dont' want my children to see, and imitate their behavior. monkey see, monkey do<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, I'm sure this is true. After all, its exactly what the anti-video game propoganda keeps telling us, so it must be.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->and as much as dads hate to see their boys play with barbies, we don't want our sons to be homos either. same goes for daughters.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Why not? Would you rather see your children happy as homosexuals, or unhappy and living in a mental institution because they have some "disease" as would be done in your ideal society? Besides which, why is it any of your business who your children sleep with when they become adaults?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->6. majority of people accept homosexuality? i'm conifident that if there was a referendum at this very moment, homo marriages will not be approved. i don't like george bush much, but i like his stance on protecting the sanctity of marriage. i hope the constitution gets ammended.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <span style='color:orange'>Aggressive reaction removed</span>
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->2. homosexual behavior can be induced in mice by the switching of genes. this was in a tv program i saw, and reinforces my theory that homosexuality is a disease, or genetic defect, or even a mental illness.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And what Journal and paper was this from by chance? TV is usually full of complete garbage and I've read no such study in any of the main journals. I know that there have been experiments done in switching certain regions of the brain between animals and observing effects to sexuality.
Of course, the part of your statement that you probably don't even realise is that if genes can regulate homosexual behaviour, that by default makes it a natural behaviour (not artificial, not simply someones choice). This of course means you completely contradict your first statement, but whatever.
Incidently, get out of the 1950's, homosexuality has long been determined to NOT be a mental disease.
your arguments have no merit whatsoever. it's all "WHO CARES?" well obviously a lot of people care deeply about this issue, and that's why there is such controversy.
and then there you are throwing a hissy fit like a little girl. there's not point having a discussion with you. i'm gonna continue to lobby against your decacent behavior with your homo buddies. and if you dont' like it, you can continue to cry like a little girl. and if people didn't share the views of their friendly neighborhood conservative party, they wouldn't be in power right now.
<span style='color:orange'>Needlessly aggressive reaction to SkulkBait removed</span>
<!--QuoteBegin-kill4thrills+Apr 15 2005, 03:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kill4thrills @ Apr 15 2005, 03:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> your arguments have no merit whatsoever. it's all "WHO CARES?" well obviously a lot of people care deeply about this issue, and that's why there is such controversy.
and then there you are throwing a hissy fit like a little girl. there's not point having a discussion with you. i'm gonna continue to lobby against your decacent behavior with your homo buddies. and if you dont' like it, you can continue to cry like a little girl. and if people didn't share the views of their friendly neighborhood conservative party, they wouldn't be in power right now.
<span style='color:orange'>*snip*</span><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You are my new internet hero. Your skills to argue are the best I've seen in ages.
Comments
Should they be allowed to marry? Well I'm not sure if it could really be considered marriage really
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->marriage
n 1: the state of being a married couple voluntarily joined for life (or until divorce); "a long and happy marriage"; "God bless this union" [syn: matrimony, union, spousal relationship, wedlock]
n 2: two people who are married to each other; "his second marriage was happier than the first"; "a married couple without love"<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A marriage is a legal commitment between two people. Maybe if a group thing was given a different name (commune? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->) then that would be okay.
About polygamy being more about lust. Yes, many 'group' relationships are founded on lust instead of love, while it's possible to love two people at once what is the chances that the two people you love feel the same way about each other? Very slight. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen though and if they do then there is nothing wrong with it at all.
Good to be back in the discussion forum <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Personally, I don't think the Government has any business worrying about the sanctity of Marriage. I certainly don't think the Government should deny a legal status to someone solely based on their sexual preferences.
*nods head* I fully agree with all of the above.
~ DarkATi
*nods head* I fully agree with all of the above.
~ DarkATi <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
concur as well.
When you mention polygamy, you're diving into the realms of "oh hell no."
My point; In my eyes, marriage is a union of two people, regardless of gender, a comittment of love and utmost dedication to each other. Introducing polygamy, the whole point of marriage is killed; A good deal of people in their right mind will not bother with look "for that special person", but marry x-amount of women out of sheer lust. THEY don't have to worry about being faithful to one wife, he can always fall back on the others. Now, as for the wife, you bring about LARGE amounts of jealousy. Women by nature, LOVE being that one person of centralized attention, knowing they are the one women her husband loves. If said husband had another wife/wives, she'd feel left out. And possibly get ****. As most do. So, polygamy is very much a bad idea, on the level of natural human behaviours.
my $.02. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
There is nothing really wrong with anything you've just described... as long as the animals are able to say yes
vote <span style='color:green'><b>yes</b></span>
<!--QuoteBegin-artica+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (artica)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-DarkATi+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkATi)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->About polygamy being more about lust. Yes, many 'group' relationships are founded on lust instead of love, while it's possible to love two people at once what is the chances that the two people you love feel the same way about each other? Very slight. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen though and if they do then there is nothing wrong with it at all. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
*nods head* I fully agree with all of the above.
~ DarkATi
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
concur as well. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As do I. I think I would love to be married to two women (as difficult as it would be hehe) but the odds of both of them loving each other? Slim. Extremely slim. Like winning the Powerball lucky.
Remember when you're agruing that there are two seperate issues. The morality and the legality. You can argue in many ways why something should be illegal morally, but if you want to ban people from doing something that YOU see as immoral, you have to come up with a legal argument as to why you should have the right to do so.
However, if you really wanted to ponder polygamy, then here is why it really shouldn't be legalized: it would cause utter CHAOS in the bureaucracy and in the courts. Think of divorces; if a woman divorced her husband, would she receive half of the estate even if the husband still had 3 wives at home? That doesn't seem entirely fair to the other 3 wives. Entirely new forms will have to be created, whole sections of the bureaucracy that deal with marriages and such will have to be revamped, laws concerning the rights of spouses will have to be rethought, etc etc. It's not as simple as just saying, "Yes, all 12 of you can get married"; there will be large upheavals in the social system and order in order for polygamy to be an acceptably streamlined protected institution.
Also, as far as benefits are concerned, you don't just get automatic tax breaks for getting married. You simply can choose to file your taxes jointly, which will land you in a better bracket, assuming of course one spouse makes the majority of the money. So, it's not like more wives = MORE MONEY FTW! or anything. <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Also, interesting choice of first post. Welcome to the forums. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't believe homosexuals should be allowed to marry
WHy?
Because it was not what was intended for us... otherwise males could give birth to children...
I dun care if ppl are ****... just DO NOT hit on me or I'll farkin rip your head off and **** down yer neck... I HATE IT when **** people hit on me... *shudder*
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unless I missed something, this thread isn't about homosexual marriage.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
WHy?
Because it was not what was intended for us... otherwise males could give birth to children...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't believe humans should fly. Why? Because it was not intended for us... otherwise we would have wings.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I dun care if ppl are ****... just DO NOT hit on me or I'll farkin rip your head off and **** down yer neck... I HATE IT when **** people hit on me... *shudder*<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sure it happens all the time. Really, unless you just happen to put off some sort of homosexual vibe that makes you a magnet for men of that persuasion, I find it extreemly unlikely that you've ever been hit on by a homosexual in your entire life, let alone enough that it would be a nuscience to you. More likely you have some serious issues with your own sexuality that cause you to react irrationaly when your sexuality is questioned. Grow up.
WHy?
Because it was not what was intended for us... otherwise males could give birth to children...
I dun care if ppl are ****... just DO NOT hit on me or I'll farkin rip your head off and **** down yer neck... I HATE IT when **** people hit on me... *shudder* <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not intended for us? By whom? Have you any proof? Pleny of animals are homosexual and they rarely get struck by lightning.
Since when has marriage been about children? What about when technology has progressed enough that men can give birth? When gender is an option rather than something you're born with. Will you change your mind then?
I don't care if people are stupid or prejudiced... just DO NOT post where I can read it or I'll be forced to reply... I HATE IT when I have to read abusive, prejudiced, badly written posts from children that try to dodge the filter just because they are incapable of expressing their illformed opinions in any other way.
Oh and I can assure you, you almost certainly don't have to worry about people hitting on you, male or female.
Hey, baby. Want me to show you a good time?
Is it alright for lesbian couples to marry? All they need is artifical insemination/a willing (but disposible) guy in order to have children.
However, if you really wanted to ponder polygamy, then here is why it really shouldn't be legalized: it would cause utter CHAOS in the bureaucracy and in the courts. Think of divorces; if a woman divorced her husband, would she receive half of the estate even if the husband still had 3 wives at home? That doesn't seem entirely fair to the other 3 wives. Entirely new forms will have to be created, whole sections of the bureaucracy that deal with marriages and such will have to be revamped, laws concerning the rights of spouses will have to be rethought, etc etc. It's not as simple as just saying, "Yes, all 12 of you can get married"; there will be large upheavals in the social system and order in order for polygamy to be an acceptably streamlined protected institution.
Also, as far as benefits are concerned, you don't just get automatic tax breaks for getting married. You simply can choose to file your taxes jointly, which will land you in a better bracket, assuming of course one spouse makes the majority of the money. So, it's not like more wives = MORE MONEY FTW! or anything. <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Also, interesting choice of first post. Welcome to the forums. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't believe homosexuals should be allowed to marry
WHy?
Because it was not what was intended for us... otherwise males could give birth to children...
I dun care if ppl are ****... just DO NOT hit on me or I'll farkin rip your head off and **** down yer neck... I HATE IT when **** people hit on me... *shudder* <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why would you get so angry unless you get a feeling of confusion and curiosity?
I've been hit on by guys before, just be nice and say I don't swing that way but thanks anyway and move on. Lifes too short to get hung up on the fact someone who has a different lifestyle flirted with you.
NO to polygamy <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
NO to liberal hippies and freaks <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
let's all start heterosexual relationships with a lifelong commitment to your ONE spouse and have NORMAL fricken families.
If we do it purely by numbers then the 'normal' marriage lasts a couple of years before they have a divorce. And last I heard one in ten people are homosexual. Is one in ten not large enough to be considered normal? In that case there are quite a few abnormal people running around with ginger hair or green eyes.
"Digusting! To the gas chambers with them!"
NO to random opinions with no facts or explanations to back them. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
[Edit] Heh, two against one, we're more normal, we win <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> [/Edit]
it is my business if they want to change the law to make those things legal. laws that relfects values that i hold dear, and their behavior crosses the threshold of behaviors for which i deem acceptable. society as a whole will decide what is or is not normal. and right now, the majority says no to homo marriages and no to polygamy. if you don't like it you can get on a boat and form your own country, or you can go to jail.
Not the best telling, still a little confused, but sure helps you to see what is happening.
Imagine a world were society is based on a bunch of pleasure seeking individuals? The moral code based on what you want alone? You people are attempting to make some sort of moral high ground based on: "If it isn't me it doesn't matter and if I want something I should have it"
it is my business if they want to change the law to make those things legal. laws that relfects values that i hold dear, and their behavior crosses the threshold of behaviors for which i deem acceptable. society as a whole will decide what is or is not normal. and right now, the majority says no to homo marriages and no to polygamy. if you don't like it you can get on a boat and form your own country, or you can go to jail. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Last time I checked 6 or 7 states is not the majority in the country.
Also, if it isn't illegal then it is legal in many states mine included.
Do not speak as if you know the facts.
If you're trying to deny people something based on your OPINION, you better damn well back up that opinion with logical argument. Give me a list of reasons as to why homosexuals should not be permitted to apply for civil union. Because you feel it's bad? Because the Bible says it's wrong? The truth is that whatever two men do consensually in the bedroom has no direct impact on the outlying society. The fact that two men (or women) love eachother has no direct negative influence on society. American society simply makes it that way as a result of biggotry and conservatism.
So until you can give me a real reason why you should be making what's not your business your business, don't talk about it.
it is my business if they want to change the law to make those things legal. laws that relfects values that i hold dear, and their behavior crosses the threshold of behaviors for which i deem acceptable. society as a whole will decide what is or is not normal. and right now, the majority says no to homo marriages and no to polygamy. if you don't like it you can get on a boat and form your own country, or you can go to jail. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Since when are your personal values reflected in the government? Does that means you agree with every single policy of this administration? I mean, if it doesn't affect you personally, why do you care? Believe it or not, the rest of the world will NOT look down on America, or you individually (if they really cared), if we accept **** marriage. Heck, a lot of them have legalized it already, or at least aren't standing in its way.
And you're wrong about society. The majority doesn't decide public policy in the USA. That's a democracy; we are only a democracy when election time comes. The rest of the time, we are a republic. The difference is that, in a democracy, the majority rules all the time, however in our society we do what is best for the entire population. Look at affirmative action. Something like that would NEVER pass in a pure democracy, because pure democracies don't look out for minorities' rights. Our government, on the other hand, is designed to cater to EVERYONE, not just the majority.
In the case of **** marriage, the minority has everything to gain while the majority has nothing to lose, except possibly a bit of self-esteem. In all the topics on homosexuality on this forum, there has not yet been one decent argument that holds up to the facts; most don't even hold up to common sense, and a few don't even get past the line of decency. Seriously, why does anybody care? Will your marriage be affected by this? Your children's? Will your life be in any way different the day after *** are allowed to marry? The answer is, obviously, no; the only people who think this will have an affect on them are those who oppose it just because it seems to go against their definition of morality. As if anyone who is crusading against **** marriage were a perfect example of pristine morality.
The only reason **** marriage is still being opposed is because we have a president who can't seem to get it through his head that this is NOT a Christian nation, and that public policy should NOT be based on his religious beliefs. Affected by them, of course; they are part of who he is. But <u>based</u> on them, absolutely not.
In many countries it isn't illegal and in fact there is a massive precedent for it being legalised. If everyone had the power to ban things they find 'unacceptable' then we wouldn't get to play games because of the affect it has on our minds. We wouldn't listen to any of the music we currently do because at some point all music has been seen as having a negative effect on the populace. Alcohol? Nope. The guns that so many Americans fight for (and with)? Nope. What about different races? Nope.
As I hinted earlier, the way you are thinking is basically a brand of fascism.
Oh and I notice you didn't address any of the points I mentioned earlier too... surprise.
<!--QuoteBegin-Gwahir+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gwahir)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If it isn't me it doesn't matter and if I want something I should have it<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not at all. It's a bit more like "If it doesn't hurt anyone at all and is their private business then why can't they have it?". So? Why can't they? About the only answer we've had is K4T's "Because I don't want them too and... well these people behind me think the same". Ok so you don't want it because you don't like it. We've established that. Would anyone like to explain why it's actually <i>bad</i>?
Oh and if we are picking out scifi to use as valid points what about Iain M.Banks culture novels? They can be any gender they want, do or say anything they want. There are no rules, no monetary systems, no crime, no unhappy people, no intolerance or prejudice. They have changed the human form so at any time they can feel any emotion they want, inject drugs straight from their own glands, change their sex, live as long as they want at any age they want. Oh and they are one of the most powerful civilisations in the galaxy.
Fiction is not fact.
QFGJ
1. homosexuality is un-natural. it goes against the drive to procreate, because same sex couples cannot procreate without artificial means
2. homosexual behavior can be induced in mice by the switching of genes. this was in a tv program i saw, and reinforces my theory that homosexuality is a disease, or genetic defect, or even a mental illness.
3. having said (2), i think homosexual behavior should not be promoted, but studied, quarantined, and cured.
4. there is a difference between progression of liberal rights, and decline into decadence. this is, of course, open to personal opinion, and it is my opinion that homosexual behavior and polygamy are beyond the threshold of decency in society. argue what you may, you will not change my view of this
5. homosexuality will not affect me or my children? i don't want to see **** couples in public. i dont' want my children to see, and imitate their behavior. monkey see, monkey do, and as much as dads hate to see their boys play with barbies, we don't want our sons to be homos either. same goes for daughters.
6. majority of people accept homosexuality? i'm conifident that if there was a referendum at this very moment, homo marriages will not be approved. i don't like george bush much, but i like his stance on protecting the sanctity of marriage. i hope the constitution gets ammended.
1. homosexuality is un-natural. it goes against the drive to procreate, because same sex couples cannot procreate without artificial means
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Who cares? There are plenty of straight couples who can't procreate without artificial means.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
2. homosexual behavior can be induced in mice by the switching of genes. this was in a tv program i saw, and reinforces my theory that homosexuality is a disease, or genetic defect, or even a mental illness.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And the mentally ill aren't allowed to get married? Even if your contention is true (which I doubt) why would that matter?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
3. having said (2), i think homosexual behavior should not be promoted, but studied, quarantined, and cured.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If homosexuality is a "disease", it is certainly not contageous, so why quarentine anybody? Also, if the contention were true, what if they don't want to be cured?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
4. there is a difference between progression of liberal rights, and decline into decadence. this is, of course, open to personal opinion, and it is my opinion that homosexual behavior and polygamy are beyond the threshold of decency in society. argue what you may, you will not change my view of this<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, who cares? The purpose of law is not to enforce morality or decency (except perhaps in public places), it is to protect individual freedoms.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->5. homosexuality will not affect me or my children? i don't want to see **** couples in public.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't want to see people eat mayonaise in public. Stop it, it makes me sick you weirdo. I should write a law and amend the constitution!
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->i dont' want my children to see, and imitate their behavior. monkey see, monkey do<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, I'm sure this is true. After all, its exactly what the anti-video game propoganda keeps telling us, so it must be.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->and as much as dads hate to see their boys play with barbies, we don't want our sons to be homos either. same goes for daughters.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why not? Would you rather see your children happy as homosexuals, or unhappy and living in a mental institution because they have some "disease" as would be done in your ideal society? Besides which, why is it any of your business who your children sleep with when they become adaults?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->6. majority of people accept homosexuality? i'm conifident that if there was a referendum at this very moment, homo marriages will not be approved. i don't like george bush much, but i like his stance on protecting the sanctity of marriage. i hope the constitution gets ammended.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<span style='color:orange'>Aggressive reaction removed</span>
And what Journal and paper was this from by chance? TV is usually full of complete garbage and I've read no such study in any of the main journals. I know that there have been experiments done in switching certain regions of the brain between animals and observing effects to sexuality.
Of course, the part of your statement that you probably don't even realise is that if genes can regulate homosexual behaviour, that by default makes it a natural behaviour (not artificial, not simply someones choice). This of course means you completely contradict your first statement, but whatever.
Incidently, get out of the 1950's, homosexuality has long been determined to NOT be a mental disease.
and then there you are throwing a hissy fit like a little girl. there's not point having a discussion with you. i'm gonna continue to lobby against your decacent behavior with your homo buddies. and if you dont' like it, you can continue to cry like a little girl. and if people didn't share the views of their friendly neighborhood conservative party, they wouldn't be in power right now.
<span style='color:orange'>Needlessly aggressive reaction to SkulkBait removed</span>
and then there you are throwing a hissy fit like a little girl. there's not point having a discussion with you. i'm gonna continue to lobby against your decacent behavior with your homo buddies. and if you dont' like it, you can continue to cry like a little girl. and if people didn't share the views of their friendly neighborhood conservative party, they wouldn't be in power right now.
<span style='color:orange'>*snip*</span><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are my new internet hero. Your skills to argue are the best I've seen in ages.