<!--QuoteBegin-Cookiebooger+May 31 2005, 08:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cookiebooger @ May 31 2005, 08:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You don't see the Muslim world telling the jews, hindus, christians, bhuddists, etc that they're all **** and stuff. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> What?
Perhaps in a perfect world no religion would fear/persecute the others. But not in ours.
And I just want to ask. Who here has been to Guantanamo Bay? *Lifts hand*
I was there for 3 months. And I have seen the way our Marines treat the prisoners there. I dont know all the goings on, and I am sure there are incidents, but thats a very small minority. The men I saw on my tour there got treated with respect. Regardless of how they treated us.
<!--QuoteBegin-Cookiebooger+May 31 2005, 09:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cookiebooger @ May 31 2005, 09:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I just hate the fact that people are trying to cover it up. Stop trying to bull **** and just come out with the damn truth! If you want to ruin the whole world by telling that Muslims are bad and all that, why do it? You don't see the Muslim world telling the jews, hindus, christians, bhuddists, etc that they're all **** and stuff. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Um...Israel? Hate much? Let's see...I seem to recall a "Death to America" protest or two. I'm feeling the love, yep. Noncombatant civilian technicians, oh yeah, those are the right people to kill. That sends no message of hatred at all...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There are a lot of people who think that is an untrue fact that the Soldiers did this. And I assure you, they really did this. But who ever doesn't believe that, it's fine with me. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> So...how's Guantanamo Bay working out for you, because you're obviously in there to have access to such information. I didn't think they'd let you use a computer; I guess they force you to read the steampowered forums as some kind of sicko torture or something.
<!--QuoteBegin-Cookiebooger+Jun 1 2005, 01:06 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cookiebooger @ Jun 1 2005, 01:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Okay to every ones responses.
The Qu'ran is considered holy because it was brought down to Muhammad (peace be upon him) to share that knowledge with every other muslim in the world. The Qu'ran came from God's words. Angels wrote every word that God said into that book.
There are a lot of people who think that is an untrue fact that the Soldiers did this. And I assure you, they really did this. But who ever doesn't believe that, it's fine with me.
I just hate the fact that people are trying to cover it up. Stop trying to bull **** and just come out with the damn truth! If you want to ruin the whole world by telling that Muslims are bad and all that, why do it? You don't see the Muslim world telling the jews, hindus, christians, bhuddists, etc that they're all **** and stuff. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well if it was the very qu'ran that was brought down to muhammed being messed with I could understand all the anger but its not. people getting all upset over the destruction of a simple book is just foolish they could take all that time spent rioting and print a new one.
SpoogeThunderbolt missile in your cheeriosJoin Date: 2002-01-25Member: 67Members
<!--QuoteBegin-Cookiebooger+May 31 2005, 08:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cookiebooger @ May 31 2005, 08:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I just hate the fact that people are trying to cover it up. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I just hate the fact that people want to believe it's true when they know it's false.
<!--QuoteBegin-reasa+May 31 2005, 11:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (reasa @ May 31 2005, 11:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I thought my point was fairly straight foreword. Does the "desecration" of the Koran or any other book for that matter, in the presence of prisoners, constitute as a violation of any treaties that the US is currently entangled in? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ok, so your saying that beacuse its not specifically illegal, its justified?
while it may be technically legal, I think we can all agree that its a pretty stupid thing to do, given the current global situation.
If this were the first negative thing the US had done with recently, then perhaps you would be right, and it wouldnt really be that damaging a story. Unfortunatly, this is simply the latest in a string of incidents that do the US no good in the eyes of the world.
Think of it like this; Situation A, some guy burns an american flag in country x.
ok, your not really so bothered, its just a flag right, nothing to get upset about, get on with your day.
Situation B, some guys country decides your nation needs 'liberating', procedes to kill 100'000 civilians, round up random people to interrogate, torture and kill prisoners in your country and at secretive bases around the world, and THEN stories are leaked about flag burning being used to further destroy the willpower of men who may or may not ever see the light of day again.
now your perhaps not so unaffected.
this doesnt even concern the fact that the Qu'ran is much more important to Muslims then the American Flag to Americans.
your talking of these events as if they happened in a bubble, at the end of the day, treaties aside, there will be repercussions felt by Americans everywhere.
<!--QuoteBegin-Spooge+Jun 1 2005, 11:34 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Spooge @ Jun 1 2005, 11:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Cookiebooger+May 31 2005, 08:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cookiebooger @ May 31 2005, 08:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I just hate the fact that people are trying to cover it up. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I just hate the fact that people want to believe it's true when they know it's false. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> it comes down to the word of the detainees against the word of the guards.
Ill admit I cant be sure it happened, but please dont pretend you can ever 'know' that it did not.
The Guantanamo Bay discussion aside, the desicration did happen.
Doesn't matter what the media reports, doesn't matter what the truth is, to the people that matter, that is, the "Average Joe" in Iraq and similar countries, the desicration happened and anyone saying differently is just trying to cover it up.
The anti-amercian sentiment and it's supporters just got a huge boost from this report, and it's a boost that's going to last for quite a while.
As for the Qu'ran, the Bible or the Amercian Flag, they are not important as objects, they are just another book, or another piece of cloth. What they are important as is symbols, symbols of our faith and link to our God, or the flag, which is a symbol of who you are and what you stand for.
<!--QuoteBegin-Diazo+Jun 1 2005, 02:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Diazo @ Jun 1 2005, 02:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The Guantanamo Bay discussion aside, the desicration did happen.
Doesn't matter what the media reports, doesn't matter what the truth is, to the people that matter, that is, the "Average Joe" in Iraq and similar countries, the desicration happened and anyone saying differently is just trying to cover it up.
The anti-amercian sentiment and it's supporters just got a huge boost from this report, and it's a boost that's going to last for quite a while. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm just going to copy-paste what I said to cookie, because 1. I'm all sarcasm-ed out, and 2. you don't read anyway. <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So...how's Guantanamo Bay working out for you, because you're obviously in there to have access to such information. I didn't think they'd let you use a computer; I guess they force you to read the steampowered forums as some kind of sicko torture or something. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Melatonin+Jun 1 2005, 06:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Melatonin @ Jun 1 2005, 06:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ok, so your saying that beacuse its not specifically illegal, its justified?
while it may be technically legal, I think we can all agree that its a pretty stupid thing to do, given the current global situation.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well if the media wasn't so intent upon breaking the latest “Abu Ghraib " story, maybe our image wouldn't be so bad. Their literally like a pack of rabid bloodhounds eagerly waiting for one US solider to screw up so they can have that Pulitzer Prize winning human rights story...Americas imagine, global repercussions, and fact checking be damned! I mean in this day and age of fast-paced, hard-hitting, unbiased reporting who has time to check sources?
I mean it happened once, let’s just assume it happens all the time and everywhere!
Who are we to decide whether or not it was justified anyway, we aren’t there. Maybe threatening to destroy the Koran is the only way to get some of them to cooperate or to share information.
Lets not forget these people are sworn enemies of America and would probably trade their left arm to get out of prison and blow you and your family up at a restaurant, Melatonin, or any other Westerner for that matter.
My sympathy for them is rather low...and something this pathetic just annoys me.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->your talking of these events as if they happened in a bubble, at the end of the day, treaties aside, there will be repercussions felt by Americans everywhere.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually I'm pretty sure most Americans well weather the "Koran Desecration" incident just fine...
<!--QuoteBegin-reasa+Jun 1 2005, 07:40 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (reasa @ Jun 1 2005, 07:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well if the media wasn't so intent upon breaking the latest “Abu Ghraib " story, maybe our image wouldn't be so bad. Their literally like a pack of rabid bloodhounds eagerly waiting for one US solider to screw up so they can have that Pulitzer Prize winning human rights story <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Thats an interesting spin on this, forget what the soldiers are doing, its the medias fault for reporting it! It might work for a while to ignore the root of the problem and hush it all up, but word would eventually spread once the detainees were released.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Lets not forget these people are sworn enemies of America and would probably trade their left arm to get out of prison and blow you and your family up at a restaurant, Melatonin, or any other Westerner for that matter.
My sympathy for them is rather low...and something this pathetic just annoys me.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is what really gets me, these people havent been charged with anything, they might be the 'next Osama', or they might be completely innocent, theres just no way we can know.
How long were those Brittons held before they were released uncharged? How are we to know this will not be the case for the majority of the detainees.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Thats an interesting spin on this, forget what the soldiers are doing, its the medias fault for reporting it! It might work for a while to ignore the root of the problem and hush it all up, but word would eventually spread once the detainees were released.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, my friend.. that's a spin on his words. As I recall reasa said nothing about "hushing it up"....only commented on checking sources.
I agree.
The media is rather bloodthirsty right now. They are harming more people, more badly, more often simply because they have become far less thorough as an organization.
Whe you spew out something that could be devastating, it's a really good idea to have a very firm hold on proof of some sort. News stories may be false, and may be taken back....but there is always a price.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This is what really gets me, these people havent been charged with anything, they might be the 'next Osama', or they might be completely innocent, theres just no way we can know.
How long were those Brittons held before they were released uncharged? How are we to know this will not be the case for the majority of the detainees.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We are fighting an enemy who seeks to wade in our citizen's blood but otherwise are undetectable.
There's no easy way of dealing with it, though I rather like the military trial option. If you are caught firing at US troops or aiding those that do, unless you are a citizen of the US you should get a nice quick military trial. Death penalty, on the table.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I just hate the fact that people are trying to cover it up.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then get the source to come out and hold his/her ground. I'll never believe the word of a weasel who hides from the results of his own words.
Not that I care if a Koran was desecrated anyway. It shouldn't be given any more respect from our government than the Bible, Moby ****, or a comic book for that matter. When we make laws that in some way favor a religion over the others...even if it is just a ban on desecration....we invalidate our own country.
<!--QuoteBegin-Melatonin+Jun 1 2005, 04:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Melatonin @ Jun 1 2005, 04:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Thats an interesting spin on this, forget what the soldiers are doing, its the medias fault for reporting it! It might work for a while to ignore the root of the problem and hush it all up, but word would eventually spread once the detainees were released.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> As was pointed out I said nothing about covering up the abuse story, I simply wanted to highlight how bloodthirsty the media is for stories like this and how little they care about the repercussions of their reporting.
Frankly I think it would have been for the best if the stories of prisoner abuse hadn't been plastered all over the world media as they were. As is the case with many such incidents the military had already launched an internal investigation months before the story broke.
The results would have been the same as far as reformation and punishment are concerned. The only results from this being released were further damage to America’s image and standing with the world and everyone had to see Lyndie England’s ugly mug all over the news. Of course when does the media ever care about Americas image?
Heh I could even go so far as to say the media was aiding terrorist organizations by breaking the abuse story. I'm sure quite a few Muslims with nothing to lose were outraged by this story enough to want revenge. I’m sure quite a few Americans were killed in Iraq as a direct result of the story going public.
<!--QuoteBegin-reasa+Jun 1 2005, 09:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (reasa @ Jun 1 2005, 09:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Heh I could even go so far as to say the media was aiding terrorist organizations by breaking the abuse story. I'm sure quite a few Muslims with nothing to lose were outraged by this story enough to want revenge. I’m sure quite a few Americans were killed in Iraq as a direct result of the story going public. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> But thats exactly where your wrong.
any Americans killed, were killed because these events happened, and not because they were reported.
your effectivly advocating exactly what I said, that if (hypothetically) the stories were covered up, then all would have been well.
Its just the next natural step of 'shifting the blame' from the people who did wrong, to the people who reported the wrong doing.
<!--QuoteBegin-Melatonin+Jun 1 2005, 05:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Melatonin @ Jun 1 2005, 05:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> But thats exactly where your wrong.
any Americans killed, were killed because these events happened, and not because they were reported.
your effectivly advocating exactly what I said, that if (hypothetically) the stories were covered up, then all would have been well.
Its just the next natural step of 'shifting the blame' from the people who did wrong, to the people who reported the wrong doing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The abuse could have happened, could have been dealt with quietly by the military and no one would have been the wiser. However because the abuse was reported by the media the entire Arab world was outraged.
If someone was outraged enough by this story to say, blow themselves up at an Iraqi police recruitment line, then the reporting of said story would be directly responsible for the deaths of those people seeing as you remove the reporting and the incident does not occur.
It is most definitely a gray area but my point is still valid.
Also I was not shifting any blame, the soldiers who abused prisoners for invalid reasons and the officers who allowed it to happen should be reviewed on a case-by-case basis and punished accordingly. This is something the military could, and would have handled on it's own with out the detrimental affects of the story going public.
<!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Jun 1 2005, 02:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Jun 1 2005, 02:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Diazo+Jun 1 2005, 02:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Diazo @ Jun 1 2005, 02:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The Guantanamo Bay discussion aside, the desicration did happen.
Doesn't matter what the media reports, doesn't matter what the truth is, to the people that matter, that is, the "Average Joe" in Iraq and similar countries, the desicration happened and anyone saying differently is just trying to cover it up.
The anti-amercian sentiment and it's supporters just got a huge boost from this report, and it's a boost that's going to last for quite a while. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm just going to copy-paste what I said to cookie, because 1. I'm all sarcasm-ed out, and 2. you don't read anyway. <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So...how's Guantanamo Bay working out for you, because you're obviously in there to have access to such information. I didn't think they'd let you use a computer; I guess they force you to read the steampowered forums as some kind of sicko torture or something. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Sorry Sky, but I'm missing the point you're trying to make. What I think you're trying to say is that since we aren't there, we don't know whats going on.
The point I'm trying to make is that what really happened doesn't matter.
Anyone with any sort of anti-amercian goals or agenda is going to hold up this incident as another reason to hate and distrust america and they will brush off any evidence to the contrary as "that's a cover-up!"
Hmmm. Upon re-reading the thread, I think I should have stuck a *slightly OT* warning on my first post. I was addressing this incident's effect, regardless of whether it actually happened of not, on feelings towards america in iraq/middle east, rather then addressing the actual incident itself.
Diazo
"doesn't matter" within the context of my post. This incident IS a big deal in regrads to Guantanamo Bay and the situation there.
<!--QuoteBegin-Foxtrot Uniform+Jun 1 2005, 06:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Foxtrot Uniform @ Jun 1 2005, 06:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> prove that they did it and that these TERRORISTS aren't lying about it. TERRORISTS. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Thank you for drawing the attention of the NSA to this topic... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I thought my point was fairly straight foreword. Does the "desecration" of the Koran or any other book for that matter, in the presence of prisoners, constitute as a violation of any treaties that the US is currently entangled in?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>Geneva Convention relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War</b> <i> Adopted on 12 August 1949 by the Diplomatic Conference for the Establishment of International Conventions for the Protection of Victims of War, held in Geneva </i> PART I GENERAL PROVISIONS
[...]
Article 3 In the case of armed conflict not of an international character occurring in the territory of one of the High Contracting Parties, each party to the conflict shall be bound to apply, as a minimum, the following provisions:
1. Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely,<b> without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria</b>.
Actually, this kind of treatment falls under the geneva convention. Desecrating a holy symbol is to be considered humiliation. Whether it warrants all the fuzz made about it or not is another question. The point is, that such incidents make it even more unlikely that the conflict will ever be solved.
That has nothing to do with the supposed descration of said holy book. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
SpoogeThunderbolt missile in your cheeriosJoin Date: 2002-01-25Member: 67Members
<!--QuoteBegin-Cookiebooger+Jun 2 2005, 10:38 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cookiebooger @ Jun 2 2005, 10:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Lets say you were all Muslims and you heard that this happened. What would YOU do? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The same thing I do every time I see some ********* burning a US flag: shake my head and mumble something about ignorance.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> That has nothing to do with the supposed descration of said holy book. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Cookiebooger+Jun 2 2005, 10:38 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cookiebooger @ Jun 2 2005, 10:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yeah i know.... what a waste of bandwith hehe..... but any way.
Lets say you were all Muslims and you heard that this happened. What would YOU do? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> completely outside the scope of the argument. Behavior is controlled by the individual.. not by Muslim ideology.
In other words... (assuming descecration did happen for the sake of the argument) deal with those who descecrated it according to the law. If what they did is illegal - punish them accordingly. Beyond that - it is neither our business or our place to do anything.
Likewise - if you are a muslim and offended by it - display it in a suitable manner. First of all - check all your facts. If your going to make a stink - be informed about it. In this case, they didn't do that... they were wrong. There was no descecration as described by Newsweek... only hearsay. Then, right your congress people and complain... right the policy makers... That is their job. Join the war effort and become the guard who doesnt disrespect the koran.
When all that is done - then ask youself "did I use my anger at this situation to overstep appropriate boundaries". Overstepping includes - riots, bombings and other such behavior. At the end of the day, is anger at the situation being used as an excuse for violence?
As for your question - my responce is what Spooge said... Muslims aren't the only ones with symbols. I don't know what I would do... but I know what I wouldn't do - and that is mimik the behavior being displayed by muslims world wide.
<!--QuoteBegin-Cookiebooger+Jun 2 2005, 10:38 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cookiebooger @ Jun 2 2005, 10:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yeah i know.... what a waste of bandwith hehe..... but any way.
Lets say you were all Muslims and you heard that this happened. What would YOU do? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> you dont want my oppinion on islam
<!--QuoteBegin-Legat+Jun 2 2005, 07:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Legat @ Jun 2 2005, 07:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I thought my point was fairly straight foreword. Does the "desecration" of the Koran or any other book for that matter, in the presence of prisoners, constitute as a violation of any treaties that the US is currently entangled in?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>Geneva Convention relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War</b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That might be more relevant if either side of the Iraq war was even attempting to follow the Geneva Convention. Iraq's statement before the government fell:
Bush issued a memorandum on Feb 7, 2002 stating that the war on terror wasn't against a nation state, and "unlawful combatants" don't qualify as prisoners of war and therefore aren't subject to the Geneva Convention. I haven't been able to dig up a copy of the precise memo text, but it's supposedly included in page 6 of Jim Schlesinger's report on Abu Gharib.
So, both sides having tossed out Geneva, posting its text here doesn't help much.
I just know that all of the countries will turn against America and just Nuke it. America is becoming too evil. NOT saying AMERICANS are evil, the GOVERNMENT is evil, dispicible and vile. They need to change the system.
<!--QuoteBegin-Cookiebooger+Jun 2 2005, 09:16 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cookiebooger @ Jun 2 2005, 09:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I just know that all of the countries will turn against America and just Nuke it. America is becoming too evil. NOT saying AMERICANS are evil, the GOVERNMENT is evil, dispicible and vile. They need to change the system. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The system works fine so long as the right people are elected. Bush is out in 2008, and the DNC has 2 years to figure out a platform other than being the anti-Republicans and put together a presidential run.
Note that this latest bit of discussion has absolutely nothing to do with the thread topic... and I'm neither Democrat nor Republican.
<!--QuoteBegin-Cagey+Jun 2 2005, 12:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cagey @ Jun 2 2005, 12:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Cookiebooger+Jun 2 2005, 09:16 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cookiebooger @ Jun 2 2005, 09:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I just know that all of the countries will turn against America and just Nuke it. America is becoming too evil. NOT saying AMERICANS are evil, the GOVERNMENT is evil, dispicible and vile. They need to change the system. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The system works fine so long as the right people are elected. Bush is out in 2008, and the DNC has 2 years to figure out a platform other than being the anti-Republicans and put together a presidential run.
Note that this latest bit of discussion has absolutely nothing to do with the thread topic... and I'm neither Democrat nor Republican. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't think its even so much of an individual person's doings in the government, but the general trend as a whole.
America is realizing its own power. It's not a good thing.
I think destryoing something like that is not only a horrible and inconsiderate thing to do but one of the worst ways to make peace in any country. Stomping on someone's core beliefs and many people's lifestyles, values, and even livelyhoods is not something people take well, not that they should.
Something like this is irreversable, the perpertrators should be punished, but I have no idea how severely, since most of the impact will probably never be truly seen.
Comments
What?
Perhaps in a perfect world no religion would fear/persecute the others. But not in ours.
And I just want to ask. Who here has been to Guantanamo Bay? *Lifts hand*
I was there for 3 months. And I have seen the way our Marines treat the prisoners there. I dont know all the goings on, and I am sure there are incidents, but thats a very small minority.
The men I saw on my tour there got treated with respect. Regardless of how they treated us.
Um...Israel? Hate much?
Let's see...I seem to recall a "Death to America" protest or two. I'm feeling the love, yep. Noncombatant civilian technicians, oh yeah, those are the right people to kill. That sends no message of hatred at all...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There are a lot of people who think that is an untrue fact that the Soldiers did this. And I assure you, they really did this. But who ever doesn't believe that, it's fine with me. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So...how's Guantanamo Bay working out for you, because you're obviously in there to have access to such information. I didn't think they'd let you use a computer; I guess they force you to read the steampowered forums as some kind of sicko torture or something.
The Qu'ran is considered holy because it was brought down to Muhammad (peace be upon him) to share that knowledge with every other muslim in the world. The Qu'ran came from God's words. Angels wrote every word that God said into that book.
There are a lot of people who think that is an untrue fact that the Soldiers did this. And I assure you, they really did this. But who ever doesn't believe that, it's fine with me.
I just hate the fact that people are trying to cover it up. Stop trying to bull **** and just come out with the damn truth! If you want to ruin the whole world by telling that Muslims are bad and all that, why do it? You don't see the Muslim world telling the jews, hindus, christians, bhuddists, etc that they're all **** and stuff. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well if it was the very qu'ran that was brought down to muhammed being messed with I could understand all the anger but its not. people getting all upset over the destruction of a simple book is just foolish they could take all that time spent rioting and print a new one.
I just hate the fact that people want to believe it's true when they know it's false.
ok, so your saying that beacuse its not specifically illegal, its justified?
while it may be technically legal, I think we can all agree that its a pretty stupid thing to do, given the current global situation.
If this were the first negative thing the US had done with recently, then perhaps you would be right, and it wouldnt really be that damaging a story. Unfortunatly, this is simply the latest in a string of incidents that do the US no good in the eyes of the world.
Think of it like this;
Situation A, some guy burns an american flag in country x.
ok, your not really so bothered, its just a flag right, nothing to get upset about, get on with your day.
Situation B, some guys country decides your nation needs 'liberating', procedes to kill 100'000 civilians, round up random people to interrogate, torture and kill prisoners in your country and at secretive bases around the world, and THEN stories are leaked about flag burning being used to further destroy the willpower of men who may or may not ever see the light of day again.
now your perhaps not so unaffected.
this doesnt even concern the fact that the Qu'ran is much more important to Muslims then the American Flag to Americans.
your talking of these events as if they happened in a bubble, at the end of the day, treaties aside, there will be repercussions felt by Americans everywhere.
I just hate the fact that people want to believe it's true when they know it's false. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
it comes down to the word of the detainees against the word of the guards.
Ill admit I cant be sure it happened, but please dont pretend you can ever 'know' that it did not.
and just to satisfy my curiosity..
where do you stand on that very same policy as practised at Guantanamo?
I suppose we can make the exception for that one?
Doesn't matter what the media reports, doesn't matter what the truth is, to the people that matter, that is, the "Average Joe" in Iraq and similar countries, the desicration happened and anyone saying differently is just trying to cover it up.
The anti-amercian sentiment and it's supporters just got a huge boost from this report, and it's a boost that's going to last for quite a while.
As for the Qu'ran, the Bible or the Amercian Flag, they are not important as objects, they are just another book, or another piece of cloth. What they are important as is symbols, symbols of our faith and link to our God, or the flag, which is a symbol of who you are and what you stand for.
Diazo
Doesn't matter what the media reports, doesn't matter what the truth is, to the people that matter, that is, the "Average Joe" in Iraq and similar countries, the desicration happened and anyone saying differently is just trying to cover it up.
The anti-amercian sentiment and it's supporters just got a huge boost from this report, and it's a boost that's going to last for quite a while. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm just going to copy-paste what I said to cookie, because 1. I'm all sarcasm-ed out, and 2. you don't read anyway.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So...how's Guantanamo Bay working out for you, because you're obviously in there to have access to such information. I didn't think they'd let you use a computer; I guess they force you to read the steampowered forums as some kind of sicko torture or something. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
while it may be technically legal, I think we can all agree that its a pretty stupid thing to do, given the current global situation.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well if the media wasn't so intent upon breaking the latest “Abu Ghraib " story, maybe our image wouldn't be so bad. Their literally like a pack of rabid bloodhounds eagerly waiting for one US solider to screw up so they can have that Pulitzer Prize winning human rights story...Americas imagine, global repercussions, and fact checking be damned! I mean in this day and age of fast-paced, hard-hitting, unbiased reporting who has time to check sources?
I mean it happened once, let’s just assume it happens all the time and everywhere!
Who are we to decide whether or not it was justified anyway, we aren’t there. Maybe threatening to destroy the Koran is the only way to get some of them to cooperate or to share information.
Lets not forget these people are sworn enemies of America and would probably trade their left arm to get out of prison and blow you and your family up at a restaurant, Melatonin, or any other Westerner for that matter.
My sympathy for them is rather low...and something this pathetic just annoys me.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->your talking of these events as if they happened in a bubble, at the end of the day, treaties aside, there will be repercussions felt by Americans everywhere.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually I'm pretty sure most Americans well weather the "Koran Desecration" incident just fine...
Thats an interesting spin on this, forget what the soldiers are doing, its the medias fault for reporting it!
It might work for a while to ignore the root of the problem and hush it all up, but word would eventually spread once the detainees were released.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Lets not forget these people are sworn enemies of America and would probably trade their left arm to get out of prison and blow you and your family up at a restaurant, Melatonin, or any other Westerner for that matter.
My sympathy for them is rather low...and something this pathetic just annoys me.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is what really gets me, these people havent been charged with anything, they might be the 'next Osama', or they might be completely innocent, theres just no way we can know.
How long were those Brittons held before they were released uncharged?
How are we to know this will not be the case for the majority of the detainees.
It might work for a while to ignore the root of the problem and hush it all up, but word would eventually spread once the detainees were released.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, my friend.. that's a spin on his words. As I recall reasa said nothing about "hushing it up"....only commented on checking sources.
I agree.
The media is rather bloodthirsty right now. They are harming more people, more badly, more often simply because they have become far less thorough as an organization.
Whe you spew out something that could be devastating, it's a really good idea to have a very firm hold on proof of some sort. News stories may be false, and may be taken back....but there is always a price.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This is what really gets me, these people havent been charged with anything, they might be the 'next Osama', or they might be completely innocent, theres just no way we can know.
How long were those Brittons held before they were released uncharged?
How are we to know this will not be the case for the majority of the detainees.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We are fighting an enemy who seeks to wade in our citizen's blood but otherwise are undetectable.
There's no easy way of dealing with it, though I rather like the military trial option. If you are caught firing at US troops or aiding those that do, unless you are a citizen of the US you should get a nice quick military trial. Death penalty, on the table.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I just hate the fact that people are trying to cover it up.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then get the source to come out and hold his/her ground. I'll never believe the word of a weasel who hides from the results of his own words.
Not that I care if a Koran was desecrated anyway. It shouldn't be given any more respect from our government than the Bible, Moby ****, or a comic book for that matter. When we make laws that in some way favor a religion over the others...even if it is just a ban on desecration....we invalidate our own country.
It might work for a while to ignore the root of the problem and hush it all up, but word would eventually spread once the detainees were released.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
As was pointed out I said nothing about covering up the abuse story, I simply wanted to highlight how bloodthirsty the media is for stories like this and how little they care about the repercussions of their reporting.
Frankly I think it would have been for the best if the stories of prisoner abuse hadn't been plastered all over the world media as they were. As is the case with many such incidents the military had already launched an internal investigation months before the story broke.
The results would have been the same as far as reformation and punishment are concerned. The only results from this being released were further damage to America’s image and standing with the world and everyone had to see Lyndie England’s ugly mug all over the news. Of course when does the media ever care about Americas image?
Heh I could even go so far as to say the media was aiding terrorist organizations by breaking the abuse story. I'm sure quite a few Muslims with nothing to lose were outraged by this story enough to want revenge. I’m sure quite a few Americans were killed in Iraq as a direct result of the story going public.
But thats exactly where your wrong.
any Americans killed, were killed because these events happened, and not because they were reported.
your effectivly advocating exactly what I said, that if (hypothetically) the stories were covered up, then all would have been well.
Its just the next natural step of 'shifting the blame' from the people who did wrong, to the people who reported the wrong doing.
any Americans killed, were killed because these events happened, and not because they were reported.
your effectivly advocating exactly what I said, that if (hypothetically) the stories were covered up, then all would have been well.
Its just the next natural step of 'shifting the blame' from the people who did wrong, to the people who reported the wrong doing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The abuse could have happened, could have been dealt with quietly by the military and no one would have been the wiser. However because the abuse was reported by the media the entire Arab world was outraged.
If someone was outraged enough by this story to say, blow themselves up at an Iraqi police recruitment line, then the reporting of said story would be directly responsible for the deaths of those people seeing as you remove the reporting and the incident does not occur.
It is most definitely a gray area but my point is still valid.
Also I was not shifting any blame, the soldiers who abused prisoners for invalid reasons and the officers who allowed it to happen should be reviewed on a case-by-case basis and punished accordingly. This is something the military could, and would have handled on it's own with out the detrimental affects of the story going public.
Doesn't matter what the media reports, doesn't matter what the truth is, to the people that matter, that is, the "Average Joe" in Iraq and similar countries, the desicration happened and anyone saying differently is just trying to cover it up.
The anti-amercian sentiment and it's supporters just got a huge boost from this report, and it's a boost that's going to last for quite a while. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm just going to copy-paste what I said to cookie, because 1. I'm all sarcasm-ed out, and 2. you don't read anyway.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So...how's Guantanamo Bay working out for you, because you're obviously in there to have access to such information. I didn't think they'd let you use a computer; I guess they force you to read the steampowered forums as some kind of sicko torture or something. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry Sky, but I'm missing the point you're trying to make.
What I think you're trying to say is that since we aren't there, we don't know whats going on.
The point I'm trying to make is that what really happened doesn't matter.
Anyone with any sort of anti-amercian goals or agenda is going to hold up this incident as another reason to hate and distrust america and they will brush off any evidence to the contrary as "that's a cover-up!"
Hmmm. Upon re-reading the thread, I think I should have stuck a *slightly OT* warning on my first post. I was addressing this incident's effect, regardless of whether it actually happened of not, on feelings towards america in iraq/middle east, rather then addressing the actual incident itself.
Diazo
"doesn't matter" within the context of my post. This incident IS a big deal in regrads to Guantanamo Bay and the situation there.
Thank you for drawing the attention of the NSA to this topic... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<b>Geneva Convention relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War</b>
<i>
Adopted on 12 August 1949 by the Diplomatic Conference for the Establishment of
International Conventions for the Protection of Victims of War, held in Geneva
</i>
PART I
GENERAL PROVISIONS
[...]
Article 3
In the case of armed conflict not of an international character occurring in the territory of one of the High Contracting Parties, each party to the conflict shall be bound to apply, as a minimum, the following provisions:
1. Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely,<b> without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria</b>.
Actually, this kind of treatment falls under the geneva convention. Desecrating a holy symbol is to be considered humiliation. Whether it warrants all the fuzz made about it or not is another question.
The point is, that such incidents make it even more unlikely that the conflict will ever be solved.
Lets say you were all Muslims and you heard that this happened. What would YOU do?
The same thing I do every time I see some ********* burning a US flag: shake my head and mumble something about ignorance.
It does.
Lets say you were all Muslims and you heard that this happened. What would YOU do? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
completely outside the scope of the argument. Behavior is controlled by the individual.. not by Muslim ideology.
In other words... (assuming descecration did happen for the sake of the argument) deal with those who descecrated it according to the law. If what they did is illegal - punish them accordingly. Beyond that - it is neither our business or our place to do anything.
Likewise - if you are a muslim and offended by it - display it in a suitable manner. First of all - check all your facts. If your going to make a stink - be informed about it. In this case, they didn't do that... they were wrong. There was no descecration as described by Newsweek... only hearsay. Then, right your congress people and complain... right the policy makers... That is their job. Join the war effort and become the guard who doesnt disrespect the koran.
When all that is done - then ask youself "did I use my anger at this situation to overstep appropriate boundaries". Overstepping includes - riots, bombings and other such behavior. At the end of the day, is anger at the situation being used as an excuse for violence?
As for your question - my responce is what Spooge said... Muslims aren't the only ones with symbols. I don't know what I would do... but I know what I wouldn't do - and that is mimik the behavior being displayed by muslims world wide.
Lets say you were all Muslims and you heard that this happened. What would YOU do? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
you dont want my oppinion on islam
<b>Geneva Convention relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War</b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That might be more relevant if either side of the Iraq war was even attempting to follow the Geneva Convention. Iraq's statement before the government fell:
<a href='http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=31690' target='_blank'>http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=31690</a>
Bush issued a memorandum on Feb 7, 2002 stating that the war on terror wasn't against a nation state, and "unlawful combatants" don't qualify as prisoners of war and therefore aren't subject to the Geneva Convention. I haven't been able to dig up a copy of the precise memo text, but it's supposedly included in page 6 of Jim Schlesinger's report on Abu Gharib.
So, both sides having tossed out Geneva, posting its text here doesn't help much.
The system works fine so long as the right people are elected. Bush is out in 2008, and the DNC has 2 years to figure out a platform other than being the anti-Republicans and put together a presidential run.
Note that this latest bit of discussion has absolutely nothing to do with the thread topic... and I'm neither Democrat nor Republican.
The system works fine so long as the right people are elected. Bush is out in 2008, and the DNC has 2 years to figure out a platform other than being the anti-Republicans and put together a presidential run.
Note that this latest bit of discussion has absolutely nothing to do with the thread topic... and I'm neither Democrat nor Republican. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think its even so much of an individual person's doings in the government, but the general trend as a whole.
America is realizing its own power. It's not a good thing.
I think destryoing something like that is not only a horrible and inconsiderate thing to do but one of the worst ways to make peace in any country. Stomping on someone's core beliefs and many people's lifestyles, values, and even livelyhoods is not something people take well, not that they should.
Something like this is irreversable, the perpertrators should be punished, but I have no idea how severely, since most of the impact will probably never be truly seen.