<!--QuoteBegin-Caboose+Jun 6 2005, 02:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Caboose @ Jun 6 2005, 02:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> An AI card would make games unbeatable. You try playing games where the computer is tactacally sound. Where it 'thinks'.
Yea, I'll take my dumb AI thankyou very much. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> But it would make things so much more fun to play an AI that wasent so stupid for a change
Looks cool, too bad many of the effects seem to be in beta, and look like garbage.
(look at the plane when it collides with something, instant stream of debris shooting vertically).
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->leaving less strain on the GPU.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just to say, that G should be a C. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
In general, yea itll be more expoensive, but i'm kind of a physics/interactivity enthusiast, so coupled with a now top-of-the-line graphics card (which will be like 200 bucks by the time PPUs are readily available), it will make a very nice game.
<!--QuoteBegin-Mad Man+Jun 6 2005, 02:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mad Man @ Jun 6 2005, 02:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Caboose+Jun 6 2005, 02:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Caboose @ Jun 6 2005, 02:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> An AI card would make games unbeatable. You try playing games where the computer is tactacally sound. Where it 'thinks'.
Yea, I'll take my dumb AI thankyou very much. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> But it would make things so much more fun to play an AI that wasent so stupid for a change <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If I wanted an non stupid opponent, I'd play online. Going through a game would take ages if the AI were really good, again, no thanks,.
I have my time, I'd rather not spend it going fighting the same AI 20 times just so I can make it inside the abandoned warehouse to do the same in there, just to get out of it.
<!--QuoteBegin-Cyndane+Jun 6 2005, 09:05 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cyndane @ Jun 6 2005, 09:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If you wish to use "there's" then you would need to change the sentence like so below. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I think this isn't a correct sentence neither <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Cereal KillR+Jun 6 2005, 03:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cereal KillR @ Jun 6 2005, 03:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Cyndane+Jun 6 2005, 09:05 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cyndane @ Jun 6 2005, 09:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If you wish to use "there's" then you would need to change the sentence like so below. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think this isn't a correct sentence <b>either</b> <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Fixed your sentence. :-)
How is it not correct? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
It does not require a comma as there is not supposed to be a pause in it. (Like the one above.) <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Well I'm only human, I'm allowed mistakes, but "change the sentence like so below" is like, so... not right <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Hopefully all this new hardware will bring in an era of creative and/or fun PC games. But until then I'm still playing BUILD engine type games, so wake me when a fun new game comes out. Or if they re-make Duke3D with a new physics and graphics engine.
Until then... Are there any decent Capcom/Konami/Namco/Sega PC games that would take advantage of this...? Or any game that seems fun, like a sequel to Jedi Knight or something?
EDIT: Btw, what's with all the grammar nazism? I'd like to think that "there's pills" is acceptable in casual conversation.
I work with the novodex engine. I'm not sure if I'll be able to do my second independent study were I integrate it into a research testbed, but I really like the engine.
The last physics engine I worked with doesn't come close.
uh.. the AI processing isn't to make the AI 'smart' as such, more 'real'.
Good AI makes mistakes and can be daft, but it does it in a natural kinda way (so a dog acts like a dog instead of a like a brick :p ). Bad AI acts unnatural: ie it's either perfect and flawless, sometimes even knowing things it couldn't possibly know or it's so dumb it's annoying ala the old CounterStrike Hostages :p
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
Hope that their gravity settings were incredibly low for those 'physics' demos, given that their collision videos had parts falling more than just kinda slow. Not to mention that apparently everything has the same weight and unit balance. I've honestly seen much better in HL2. :b
The fluids are around the level of low-end 3D modelling bits, but they have no relative friction, absorption or personal viscosity. Meaning no chance of 'oil slicks', as all of the fluids travel to the lowest point, much like buckyballs. Same with no possibility of water beading on the car and holding its place. Or in an AvP-style game, 'goo' would not stretch into threads, it would simply snap into a stream of tiny droplets. Extremely disappointing, given that they want people to pay craploads of cash for a card that can't even compete with a low-midrange real-time suite.
Personally, it's a 'no-buy' in my opinion, until they actually make the physics work like... well, physics. And can demonstrate it happening in real-time, with off-center balance points and the like. So those bombs in the colliding plane video won't just float up into the air and flip around lazily. They have to deal with air friction at the very least, as well as the fact that their main axis is much closer to the nose, as anyone who's ever played ACTUAL lawn darts has seen.
Yep, surprisingly theyre gonna release PCI versions first, with PCI-E soon to follow.
Makes me want to look for a mobo with a PCI-E 4x slot.....just cause I have yet to find a use for one.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The fluids are around the level of low-end 3D modelling bits, but they have no relative friction, absorption or personal viscosity. Meaning no chance of 'oil slicks', as all of the fluids travel to the lowest point, much like buckyballs. Same with no possibility of water beading on the car and holding its place. Or in an AvP-style game, 'goo' would not stretch into threads, it would simply snap into a stream of tiny droplets. Extremely disappointing, given that they want people to pay craploads of cash for a card that can't even compete with a low-midrange real-time suite. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think the fluids look a little iffy cause theyre still collections of particles, especially when spraying junk on that car, sometimes it didnt look that good. And with the better looking fluids towards the end, they could only make droplets so small, and that was like the size of a shooter marble.... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
And it seems like its more of a software problem than anything else, being that the PPU will probably end up just being a CPU with a better floating point default precision....
The time will come when physics engines can model droplet-sized particles of fluids and do most of the stuff you are looking for, but instead of 1000s of objects in a level, think millions of particles in a glass.
U could probably do some fancy coding and simulate it damn well though. Who knows.
<!--QuoteBegin-Geminosity+Jun 7 2005, 02:52 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Geminosity @ Jun 7 2005, 02:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> AI cards and stuff <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I thought the issue was the programmers being lazy buggers, not that there was a lack of computing power...
It's kinda both. Decent AI takes up more power and you have to multiply that by the number of enemies you'll have running around ontop of that; after all to act intelligent the AI needs to know about the world around it and the more realistic you want it to act the more info and checks it needs :s
Better AI is definately high on my wish-list. The nearly offensive stupidity of the combine soldiers were a real let down for me in HL2. I mean, sure, they had some fancy moves like sidestepping between cover while shooting, but that was pretty much it.
Did you play HL² on easy? The AI it introduced was a fairly complex and realistic one, they actually do act intelligently on hard, at least from what Ive seen....
AI wasn't covered as much in HL² because it was overlooked by the physics and graphics, but it was supposed to be really good..... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->the AI processing isn't to make the AI 'smart' as such, more 'real'.
Good AI makes mistakes and can be daft, but it does it in a natural kinda way (so a dog acts like a dog instead of a like a brick :p ). <b>Bad AI acts unnatural: ie it's either perfect and flawless</b>, sometimes even knowing things it couldn't possibly know or it's so dumb it's annoying ala the old CounterStrike Hostages :p<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
Physics -> Graphics -> <b>LIGHT</b>(Real time raytracing) -> Sound(Sound card) -> CPU(Everything else) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hexagon :E You forgot gem's mention of an AI card <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Yea, I'll take my dumb AI thankyou very much.
Yea, I'll take my dumb AI thankyou very much. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
But it would make things so much more fun to play an AI that wasent so stupid for a change
(look at the plane when it collides with something, instant stream of debris shooting vertically).
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->leaving less strain on the GPU.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just to say, that G should be a C. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
In general, yea itll be more expoensive, but i'm kind of a physics/interactivity enthusiast, so coupled with a now top-of-the-line graphics card (which will be like 200 bucks by the time PPUs are readily available), it will make a very nice game.
Yea, I'll take my dumb AI thankyou very much. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But it would make things so much more fun to play an AI that wasent so stupid for a change <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If I wanted an non stupid opponent, I'd play online. Going through a game would take ages if the AI were really good, again, no thanks,.
I have my time, I'd rather not spend it going fighting the same AI 20 times just so I can make it inside the abandoned warehouse to do the same in there, just to get out of it.
I think this isn't a correct sentence neither <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I think this isn't a correct sentence <b>either</b> <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fixed your sentence. :-)
How is it not correct? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
(Like the one above.) <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
One more thing to buy for a new PC.
One more driver to keep track of.
And thousands more problems introduced...
Until then... Are there any decent Capcom/Konami/Namco/Sega PC games that would take advantage of this...? Or any game that seems fun, like a sequel to Jedi Knight or something?
EDIT: Btw, what's with all the grammar nazism? I'd like to think that "there's pills" is acceptable in casual conversation.
The last physics engine I worked with doesn't come close.
Good AI makes mistakes and can be daft, but it does it in a natural kinda way (so a dog acts like a dog instead of a like a brick :p ).
Bad AI acts unnatural: ie it's either perfect and flawless, sometimes even knowing things it couldn't possibly know or it's so dumb it's annoying ala the old CounterStrike Hostages :p
The fluids are around the level of low-end 3D modelling bits, but they have no relative friction, absorption or personal viscosity. Meaning no chance of 'oil slicks', as all of the fluids travel to the lowest point, much like buckyballs. Same with no possibility of water beading on the car and holding its place. Or in an AvP-style game, 'goo' would not stretch into threads, it would simply snap into a stream of tiny droplets. Extremely disappointing, given that they want people to pay craploads of cash for a card that can't even compete with a low-midrange real-time suite.
Personally, it's a 'no-buy' in my opinion, until they actually make the physics work like... well, physics. And can demonstrate it happening in real-time, with off-center balance points and the like. So those bombs in the colliding plane video won't just float up into the air and flip around lazily. They have to deal with air friction at the very least, as well as the fact that their main axis is much closer to the nose, as anyone who's ever played ACTUAL lawn darts has seen.
Caboose, I hate you man.
Everytime I'm about to post an answer to the thread by associating it with hentai, you beat me to it.
Makes me want to look for a mobo with a PCI-E 4x slot.....just cause I have yet to find a use for one.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
The fluids are around the level of low-end 3D modelling bits, but they have no relative friction, absorption or personal viscosity. Meaning no chance of 'oil slicks', as all of the fluids travel to the lowest point, much like buckyballs. Same with no possibility of water beading on the car and holding its place. Or in an AvP-style game, 'goo' would not stretch into threads, it would simply snap into a stream of tiny droplets. Extremely disappointing, given that they want people to pay craploads of cash for a card that can't even compete with a low-midrange real-time suite.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think the fluids look a little iffy cause theyre still collections of particles, especially when spraying junk on that car, sometimes it didnt look that good. And with the better looking fluids towards the end, they could only make droplets so small, and that was like the size of a shooter marble.... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
And it seems like its more of a software problem than anything else, being that the PPU will probably end up just being a CPU with a better floating point default precision....
The time will come when physics engines can model droplet-sized particles of fluids and do most of the stuff you are looking for, but instead of 1000s of objects in a level, think millions of particles in a glass.
U could probably do some fancy coding and simulate it damn well though. Who knows.
I thought the issue was the programmers being lazy buggers, not that there was a lack of computing power...
It's kinda both. Decent AI takes up more power and you have to multiply that by the number of enemies you'll have running around ontop of that; after all to act intelligent the AI needs to know about the world around it and the more realistic you want it to act the more info and checks it needs :s
AI wasn't covered as much in HL² because it was overlooked by the physics and graphics, but it was supposed to be really good..... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
It's a sad day when a theoretical physicist can outmaneuver a squad of supposedly highly-trained elite soldiers.
Good AI makes mistakes and can be daft, but it does it in a natural kinda way (so a dog acts like a dog instead of a like a brick :p ).
<b>Bad AI acts unnatural: ie it's either perfect and flawless</b>, sometimes even knowing things it couldn't possibly know or it's so dumb it's annoying ala the old CounterStrike Hostages :p<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think quoting myself says enough cereal :p