Umbra Too Powerful

CanonfodderCanonfodder Join Date: 2002-11-06 Member: 7398Members
<div class="IPBDescription">its unbalancing</div> the only thing that stops umbra fade combo is grenlaunchers, which cost a ton and you can't get until tier 3 tech really. Umbra is tier 2 and can take down a base easy...

It would be nice if a new gun was added to marines that was cheaper, works through umbra, and does upped damage to units, but makes you really slow and vunerable against buildings.

So basically like: a flame thrower for 12 resource.

So adjust things like this: gren launcher does massive damage to buildings but not units. Flame thrower does practically no damage to buildings but good damage against units. or visa versa....

this gives marines an equivlent counter and combo similar to umbra fade

seriously the other day 2 lerks and a fade took down 8 turrents and 4 marines... I'm pretty sure they didn't have 3 hives. I could be wrong though.

either way thats just ridculous.
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Comments

  • padijunpadijun Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3419Members
    If the aliens are working together that well, then they deserve to eat your turrets. Umbra lasts like 7-8 seconds and doesn't completely bock enemy fire.
  • CanonfodderCanonfodder Join Date: 2002-11-06 Member: 7398Members
    edited November 2002
    between 2 lerks it does. and it was more accident than teamwork in my opinion. One of the lerks knew what he was doing, the other one was trying to kill people with poison gas I think. Either way we were controlling the map and ended up losing it to 2 lerks and a fade. Thats 8 on 3 to give you an idea of the numbers.

    The only counter is gren launchers which we couldn't even build... stupid commander.
  • MadjaiMadjai Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2986Members
    youre saying that two lerks using umbra at the same time become invincible?
  • HavicWindHavicWind Join Date: 2002-04-16 Member: 461Members
    I don't agree w/ ur statment that its unbalanced. Frankly u guys must have been sucking hardcore. If you had 4 marines u could have easily rushed and beat them. HMG are gib weapons vs lerks and umbra takes awhile to cast even w/ adreneline, even LMG can take out lerks fast, and then the fade would fall fast.

    That said, I leik the idea of a flamethrowe even though I'm alien. It would just be so damn.... FLAMMY!! FIRE FIRE!!! MUAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!!!!
  • CanonfodderCanonfodder Join Date: 2002-11-06 Member: 7398Members
    more like 2 lerks and a fade pretty much do. the fade took out our turret factory. Knife didn't even work against him.

    then he system matically dashed at every marine in the area. We kept flooding into that area to no avail.
  • MutantMFMMutantMFM Join Date: 2002-07-27 Member: 1005Members
    edited November 2002
    Temporarly invicible against all attacs but with of those two lerks castin umbra it can last indefinatly and that is one way for the aliens to win. I do not think that unbalances the game I mean if you choose to go umbra and help defend the attackers like that is a fair game.
  • CanonfodderCanonfodder Join Date: 2002-11-06 Member: 7398Members
    we lost our two hmgs pretty quick in the first assault. We were actually planning to storm another hive from that location.
  • NecroNecro &lt;insert non-birthday-related title here&gt; Join Date: 2002-08-09 Member: 1118Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Canonfodder+Nov 8 2002, 12:51 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Canonfodder @ Nov 8 2002, 12:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->between 2 lerks it does.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    WRONG.

    it has been confirmed that 2 umbra's DO NOT stack up.
  • CanonfodderCanonfodder Join Date: 2002-11-06 Member: 7398Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Temporarly invicible against all attack but with two it can last indefinatly. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    hence I say add more than just a grenade launcher that works in umbra.
  • MadjaiMadjai Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2986Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Necro-+Nov 7 2002, 09:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Necro- @ Nov 7 2002, 09:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--Canonfodder+Nov 8 2002, 12:51 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Canonfodder @ Nov 8 2002, 12:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->between 2 lerks it does.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    WRONG.

    it has been confirmed that 2 umbra's DO NOT stack up.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    ooo burned.
  • MutantMFMMutantMFM Join Date: 2002-07-27 Member: 1005Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Necro-+Nov 7 2002, 09:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Necro- @ Nov 7 2002, 09:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--Canonfodder+Nov 8 2002, 12:51 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Canonfodder @ Nov 8 2002, 12:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->between 2 lerks it does.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    WRONG.

    it has been confirmed that 2 umbra's DO NOT stack up.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    That may be true but if one cast umbra after the other ones umbrai is gone they can keep that up to keep them untouchable from most attacks.
  • AcrobadAcrobad Join Date: 2002-10-31 Member: 1779Members
    would people stop blaming the balance and start training themselves harder?

    I've killed many aliens in umbra with a knife

    you just got to use your guts and brain. But make sure your gut is not the brain though <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • CanonfodderCanonfodder Join Date: 2002-11-06 Member: 7398Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->WRONG.

    it has been confirmed that 2 umbra's DO NOT stack up. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    1 uses umbra the other recharges.. then the 2nd uses umbra while the first recharges. in the meantime the fade kills everything firing at him in the area. I would have loved to lead him out but we did have a ton of buildings down in that area.
  • CanonfodderCanonfodder Join Date: 2002-11-06 Member: 7398Members
    Ok I have a freaking eye witness that its next to impossible to kill a fade in umbra with a knife. maybe I will have him sign in and back me up here.
  • MbOoGiEMbOoGiE Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2030Members
    "2 lerks and a fade took down 8 turrents and 4 marines"

    your comparing 3 upgraded aliens, to 4 basic marines? they're supposed to get raped. by the time 2nd hive is up, most of your marines should have some sort of better firepower than LMGs. it's just a plain fact. if they had a gorg around the corner building defensive towers for healing, you are comparing a 4 on 4 match with one side having spent the time to upgrade... it's not an even match.

    maybe due to you putting up 8 turrets is the problem. save your resources jeez.

    oh yah, if they're using poison gas, that means they have 3 hives up. if you don't even know the basics abilities of aliens then don't be surprised if you get beat. aliens know (and fear) all the marine firepower, and you expect someone who puts up 8 turrets in a room and has a vague idea of alien tactics to beat them? i don't think so.
  • GravitonSurgeGravitonSurge Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 6138Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Necro-+Nov 7 2002, 04:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Necro- @ Nov 7 2002, 04:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--Canonfodder+Nov 8 2002, 12:51 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Canonfodder @ Nov 8 2002, 12:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->between 2 lerks it does.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    WRONG.

    it has been confirmed that 2 umbra's DO NOT stack up.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    What he meant is they can chaincast it.
  • CanonfodderCanonfodder Join Date: 2002-11-06 Member: 7398Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->your comparing 3 upgraded aliens, to 4 basic marines?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->\

    two had hmgs, we had lvl 2 upgrade armor and weapons, and 1 of our guys had heavy armor. we weren't unupgraded
  • CanonfodderCanonfodder Join Date: 2002-11-06 Member: 7398Members
    and their nearest defensive structure was a hive out of range for healing. We checked that as we were planning an assault.
  • MbOoGiEMbOoGiE Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2030Members
    match them up. gorgs heal, have your welders heal, lerks umbra, you need to have grenade launcher/s...

    my point still stands, maybe if you didn't spend your cash on those now-useless-thanks-to-umbra turrets, you would have enough for grenade launchers eh?
  • RedemptionXRedemptionX Join Date: 2002-11-07 Member: 7609Members
    it is true that it is insanely hard to kill any alien with a knife. ive played the game like every waking moment of my life since it came out and ive only succesfully killed an alien 2 times one because i was goofing around and actually became skillful for about 2.6 seconds. but it is very possible to kill umbraed things. i have done it with an lmg and hmg before and i tell u its NOT exactly that hard just annoying because u have to use an @$$ load of bullets to kill. and i must admit too that there r times where id like to strangle the !@#$ out of umbra users because it is so annoying at times
  • PhotonPhoton Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 5842Members
    lol imbalanced???
    Marines got the siege gun, wich has to be the most disruptive piece of **obscenity** in the whole game, dont come here whining about umbra, how do u suspect an alien is supposed to take out 350k turrets and 5 turret factories without some sort of defence?
  • MadjaiMadjai Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2986Members
    i still seem to get hurt pretty bad when using umbra. if the marines just focus on killing the tiny lerks and not the big fade they would kill them.
  • MR_GUMPMR_GUMP Join Date: 2002-11-04 Member: 6869Members
    Ok i play both aliens and marines, and turst me if the aliens dont have umbra they get owned so damn fast, sure when u get umbra up they are hard to kill, but still if u have like 3 guys consentrating fire on that lerk it will die so damn fast even with umbra up.

    This game will never be withought winners, sure there are things in this game that are not "PERFECTLY" balanced but in the most part the game is very well balanced (if they were "perfectly"balanced both teams would have to be the same), if u get 2 teams that know what they are doing, a game can go on for many hours.

    All u gata do to counter act umbra is just have like 3 marines consentrate on the lerk, not the fade or onos, and then after umbra goes down take out the fade or onos.

    Its all about strategy, this game is not just a CS with aliens and structures, but more like a RTS with realy live units. Learn the enemies abilities and learn ways to counter them, dont get frustrade and spam on these boards if an alien uses something that u have a hard time dealing with. Remember all the hell the aliens go through with siege turrets and grenadle launchers, so marines going through hell with umbra is just part of the game, learn to counter it.

    If i am correct umbra blocks 6 out of 7 bullets, thus about 15 dmg a second with light machine guns(if all bullets hit) now if those are upgraded and u get 3-4 guys doing that its over for the lerk. Ok now imagine if u have hmgs, thats like 25 dmg a second from one marine, now with 4 marines thats 100 dmg, lerk will die in like 3-4 seconds accounting for acuracy and the lerk moving. If u ask me i dong think that is unbalanced.......
  • CanonfodderCanonfodder Join Date: 2002-11-06 Member: 7398Members
    these are the arguments I am hearing

    1) you shouldn't ever try to actually defend your position, you should just tech up to grens immeaditly.

    2) just attack lerks

    3) just get more skills and use your knife

    response:
    1) grenade launchers are lvl 3 tech. umbra is lvl 2. This is my intial point. Give the marines something that works in umbra thats is lvl 1/2 tech to fight against it. With enough team work they should still be able to take down turrets with umbra, but not against suffient marine back up. I dont think there should ever be a situation in which 3 players can take down that much tech. Marines should at least have a way to defend themselves other than just knives at that point in the game.

    2) The lerks can easily hide around the corner and dash in when needed as one of them did, or just stay behind the fade as he rips all opposition apart as the other did. There is no way to kill 2 lerks went your getting ripped a new one by a fade I'm sorry...

    3) Have you ever tried to knife a fade or a lerk who was running/flying around like nuts when you are slower than both of them? yea right more skill. thats like saying "AIM better" against a turret as an alien.
  • FinaFina Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3267Members
    Umbra is fine. I get killed all the time while using it. The Marines just have to know what they are doing.

    Of course I'm the Lerk spraying Umbra and spiking three marines. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> You can try to knife me, or shoot me when I am retreating.
  • MoleculorMoleculor Namer-of-Bob Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 9Members
    Use a knife, welder, or grenade launcher. It is entirely possible to knife an alien. Or just pour firepower into the cloud. Two people shooting at the same stationary target will get a few shots in, enough to scare him off.
  • Fr0STFr0ST Join Date: 2002-11-06 Member: 7473Members
    Well we all have been playing this game a bunch and I have to say it's balanced...or pretty close to it. Remember when the game first came out and everyone said the marines were to strong? Well I say lets wait a few months and people will get better and more patches will even things out. It's really to early to start complaining bout things.

    Also from my experience it seems that alien players are usually the guys that play night and day and most of the time the marines are guys that just started this game. I'm sure after awhile marine players will develop the strenghs.
  • AtziluthAtziluth Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 1995Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Canonfodder+Nov 7 2002, 09:45 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Canonfodder @ Nov 7 2002, 09:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->the only thing that stops umbra fade combo is grenlaunchers, which cost a ton and you can't get until tier 3 tech really. Umbra is tier 2 and can take down a base easy...

    It would be nice if a new gun was added to marines that was cheaper, works through umbra, and does upped damage to units, but makes you really slow and vunerable against buildings.

    So basically like: a flame thrower for 12 resource.

    So adjust things like this: gren launcher does massive damage to buildings but not units. Flame thrower does practically no damage to buildings but good damage against units. or visa versa....

    this gives marines an equivlent counter and combo similar to umbra fade

    seriously the other day 2 lerks and a fade took down 8 turrents and 4 marines... I'm pretty sure they didn't have 3 hives. I could be wrong though.

    either way thats just ridculous.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Take out the GL COMPLETELY and then I could see reducing umbra (not really but would be worth the sacrafice).

    Right now the marines have the capability to do 800 dmg to mobs 1600 to structures in 4 seconds... nothing and I do mean NOTHING in the game matches it... It takes a fade couple of minutes to take out a decent nest of turrets (even more if marines keep rushing in) yet you think that is overpowered to the GL... LMAO...

    2 marines with GLs and hvy arm... with one hvy mg with hvy arm... can take out any nest... and not in minutes but in a matter of seconds... cry on someone elses shoulder I've had enough cheese with teh GL...

    Why don;t we call this mode... Marines rack up points to be l33t. This patch helped but I see the marines already learning and now own better then 75% of the games on public servers.... I see it for 2 reasons... and they are the same old issues...

    1) Turret farms are still very much alive... about 1/2 they use to be... but avg 5 - 8 per node... 10 - 15 per hive.

    2) GL still is cheese IMHO... The dmg needs to reflect the speed it fires... I would rather see it fire 6 rounds again at 150 dmg a pop (no double dmg ver buildings).... That way a marine can still do around 900 dmg but over a slightly longer period of time.
  • MR_GUMPMR_GUMP Join Date: 2002-11-04 Member: 6869Members
    Turrets are easy to take out as a fade, just kill the turret factory and its over, simple as that. And it does not take 2 minutes to do that.......

    Also if a marine has a grenade launcher rush him!!!!! They are not effective at close range.......
  • SuperMunchkinSuperMunchkin Join Date: 2002-09-28 Member: 1364Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Canonfodder+Nov 8 2002, 12:07 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Canonfodder @ Nov 8 2002, 12:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->3) Have you ever tried to knife a fade or a lerk who was running/flying around like nuts when you are slower than both of them? yea right more skill. thats like saying "AIM better" against a turret as an alien.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    If the lerk is running around flying like crazy, he isn't in his umbra cloud anymore.
    If you've got such good teamwork as to have 2 lerks and a fade working together, I'd sure as hell run without a GL. Unless you, say.. use teamwork. If you can't get a shot at the lerks, and fear death when using guns- all 4 knife rush the fade. It'll go down.
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