Im just upset that I can't find a co stock 24/7 because Ill admit, although I enjoy clan play alot more sometimes a nice ego boost kill fest on a pub does the trick, Im upset thats all there is to play is 50 level stuff, hell if you enjoy it I think its great but I dont want to be pressured into it
<!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Jun 18 2005, 10:26 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Jun 18 2005, 10:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Im just upset that I can't find a co stock 24/7 because Ill admit, although I enjoy clan play alot more sometimes a nice ego boost kill fest on a pub does the trick, Im upset thats all there is to play is 50 level stuff, hell if you enjoy it I think its great but I dont want to be pressured into it <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Give the lv. 50 plugin a try, you can usually get a score about 250-300 within 30 min if you pick the right upgrades on aliens, and on marines it's huge challenge to win. I can live with it.
<!--QuoteBegin-NGE+Jun 18 2005, 12:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NGE @ Jun 18 2005, 12:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Jun 18 2005, 10:26 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Jun 18 2005, 10:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Im just upset that I can't find a co stock 24/7 because Ill admit, although I enjoy clan play alot more sometimes a nice ego boost kill fest on a pub does the trick, Im upset thats all there is to play is 50 level stuff, hell if you enjoy it I think its great but I dont want to be pressured into it <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Give the lv. 50 plugin a try, you can usually get a score about 250-300 within 30 min if you pick the right upgrades on aliens, and on marines it's huge challenge to win. I can live with it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If such is the case you should have that server op either return it to default settings, or adjust the defines to where it's balanced. There's no reason extralevels2 cannot be adjusted to favor neither team. None.
<!--QuoteBegin-NGE+Jun 18 2005, 11:53 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NGE @ Jun 18 2005, 11:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Jun 18 2005, 10:26 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Jun 18 2005, 10:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Im just upset that I can't find a co stock 24/7 because Ill admit, although I enjoy clan play alot more sometimes a nice ego boost kill fest on a pub does the trick, Im upset thats all there is to play is 50 level stuff, hell if you enjoy it I think its great but I dont want to be pressured into it <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Give the lv. 50 plugin a try, you can usually get a score about 250-300 within 30 min if you pick the right upgrades on aliens, and on marines it's huge challenge to win. I can live with it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ya, but you can bhop around at a million mile per hour, totally impervious to stomp and web.
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Jun 18 2005, 06:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Jun 18 2005, 06:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-NGE+Jun 18 2005, 11:53 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NGE @ Jun 18 2005, 11:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Jun 18 2005, 10:26 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Jun 18 2005, 10:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Im just upset that I can't find a co stock 24/7 because Ill admit, although I enjoy clan play alot more sometimes a nice ego boost kill fest on a pub does the trick, Im upset thats all there is to play is 50 level stuff, hell if you enjoy it I think its great but I dont want to be pressured into it <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Give the lv. 50 plugin a try, you can usually get a score about 250-300 within 30 min if you pick the right upgrades on aliens, and on marines it's huge challenge to win. I can live with it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ya, but you can bhop around at a million mile per hour, totally impervious to stomp and web. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> this is irrelevent though because the aliens are all lerks/fades/onos
BreakthroughTexture Artist (ns_prometheus)Join Date: 2005-03-27Member: 46620Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-kalimxs+Jun 18 2005, 07:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kalimxs @ Jun 18 2005, 07:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Jun 18 2005, 06:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Jun 18 2005, 06:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->ya, but you can bhop around at a million mile per hour, totally impervious to stomp and web. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> this is irrelevent though because the aliens are all lerks/fades/onos <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I think he was talking about the Marines (avoiding stomp) with the speed upgrade (cybernetics IIRC). It's fun to bunnyhop around the map as a Marine...
<!--QuoteBegin-Breakthrough+Jun 18 2005, 08:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Breakthrough @ Jun 18 2005, 08:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-kalimxs+Jun 18 2005, 07:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kalimxs @ Jun 18 2005, 07:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Jun 18 2005, 06:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Jun 18 2005, 06:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->ya, but you can bhop around at a million mile per hour, totally impervious to stomp and web. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> this is irrelevent though because the aliens are all lerks/fades/onos <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think he was talking about the Marines (avoiding stomp) with the speed upgrade (cybernetics IIRC). It's fun to bunnyhop around the map as a Marine... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Stomp and web barely effect cyber marines at all. stomp and web decelleration is based on a max speed relevent model for marines it effects, and for JPs it just disables propultion. Cyber acctually increases marines speed push, so they can get hit by stomp or web and just experiance annoying decrease in max speed with thier gun going away, but still move insanely fast, usually avoiding the effects, JPs with level 4-5 cyber can't be seriously threatened by webs any more.
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Jun 18 2005, 10:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Jun 18 2005, 10:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Breakthrough+Jun 18 2005, 08:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Breakthrough @ Jun 18 2005, 08:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-kalimxs+Jun 18 2005, 07:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kalimxs @ Jun 18 2005, 07:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Jun 18 2005, 06:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Jun 18 2005, 06:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->ya, but you can bhop around at a million mile per hour, totally impervious to stomp and web. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> this is irrelevent though because the aliens are all lerks/fades/onos <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think he was talking about the Marines (avoiding stomp) with the speed upgrade (cybernetics IIRC). It's fun to bunnyhop around the map as a Marine... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Stomp and web barely effect cyber marines at all. stomp and web decelleration is based on a max speed relevent model for marines it effects, and for JPs it just disables propultion. Cyber acctually increases marines speed push, so they can get hit by stomp or web and just experiance annoying decrease in max speed with thier gun going away, but still move insanely fast, usually avoiding the effects, JPs with level 4-5 cyber can't be seriously threatened by webs any more. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Which is precisely why the cost of Cybernetics needs to be set at 2 points per level.
<!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Jun 18 2005, 09:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Jun 18 2005, 09:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Jun 18 2005, 10:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Jun 18 2005, 10:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Breakthrough+Jun 18 2005, 08:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Breakthrough @ Jun 18 2005, 08:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-kalimxs+Jun 18 2005, 07:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kalimxs @ Jun 18 2005, 07:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Jun 18 2005, 06:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Jun 18 2005, 06:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->ya, but you can bhop around at a million mile per hour, totally impervious to stomp and web. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> this is irrelevent though because the aliens are all lerks/fades/onos <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think he was talking about the Marines (avoiding stomp) with the speed upgrade (cybernetics IIRC). It's fun to bunnyhop around the map as a Marine... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Stomp and web barely effect cyber marines at all. stomp and web decelleration is based on a max speed relevent model for marines it effects, and for JPs it just disables propultion. Cyber acctually increases marines speed push, so they can get hit by stomp or web and just experiance annoying decrease in max speed with thier gun going away, but still move insanely fast, usually avoiding the effects, JPs with level 4-5 cyber can't be seriously threatened by webs any more. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Which is precisely why the cost of Cybernetics needs to be set at 2 points per level. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No, this is exactly why we need to 50 levels.
<!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Jun 18 2005, 09:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Jun 18 2005, 09:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Jun 18 2005, 10:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Jun 18 2005, 10:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Breakthrough+Jun 18 2005, 08:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Breakthrough @ Jun 18 2005, 08:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-kalimxs+Jun 18 2005, 07:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kalimxs @ Jun 18 2005, 07:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Jun 18 2005, 06:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Jun 18 2005, 06:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->ya, but you can bhop around at a million mile per hour, totally impervious to stomp and web. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> this is irrelevent though because the aliens are all lerks/fades/onos <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think he was talking about the Marines (avoiding stomp) with the speed upgrade (cybernetics IIRC). It's fun to bunnyhop around the map as a Marine... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Stomp and web barely effect cyber marines at all. stomp and web decelleration is based on a max speed relevent model for marines it effects, and for JPs it just disables propultion. Cyber acctually increases marines speed push, so they can get hit by stomp or web and just experiance annoying decrease in max speed with thier gun going away, but still move insanely fast, usually avoiding the effects, JPs with level 4-5 cyber can't be seriously threatened by webs any more. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Which is precisely why the cost of Cybernetics needs to be set at 2 points per level. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> trying to balance the disaster you have created like this is like attempting to get rid of water in a sinking ship with a spoon.
<!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Jun 18 2005, 09:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Jun 18 2005, 09:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Jun 18 2005, 10:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Jun 18 2005, 10:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Breakthrough+Jun 18 2005, 08:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Breakthrough @ Jun 18 2005, 08:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-kalimxs+Jun 18 2005, 07:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kalimxs @ Jun 18 2005, 07:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Jun 18 2005, 06:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Jun 18 2005, 06:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->ya, but you can bhop around at a million mile per hour, totally impervious to stomp and web. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> this is irrelevent though because the aliens are all lerks/fades/onos <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think he was talking about the Marines (avoiding stomp) with the speed upgrade (cybernetics IIRC). It's fun to bunnyhop around the map as a Marine... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Stomp and web barely effect cyber marines at all. stomp and web decelleration is based on a max speed relevent model for marines it effects, and for JPs it just disables propultion. Cyber acctually increases marines speed push, so they can get hit by stomp or web and just experiance annoying decrease in max speed with thier gun going away, but still move insanely fast, usually avoiding the effects, JPs with level 4-5 cyber can't be seriously threatened by webs any more. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Which is precisely why the cost of Cybernetics needs to be set at 2 points per level. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Quick balance rant on 50 levels:
- Combat is alien baised. Giving aliens 50 levels means they have 50 more levels of bais.
- Cybernetics isn't hard to counter, it's a fine upgrade at just one point. Stomp still stops them dead in their tracks, and if you go cyber then you forgo a lot of good other upgrades like armor regen or jetpacks.
Honestly it's pretty noob if you can't deal with cybernetics. I also like how cyber counters web to some degree.
Cybernetics is nothing compared to a celerity fade with near unlimited celerity blink, or an onos with perma stomp who gets 10% health per kill and also can redeem, or lerks and webs who can spore/web up the wazoo.
One thing though, cybernetics is extremely annoying in lag. Makes the marines impossible to hit. Fast moving target + melee + lag + HL engine = GG
I've had plenty of games where I can just spit to death marines with focus spit who have cybernetics, webs still get rid of their weapons.
Honestly if you wanna balance out 50 levels here's what you do: Get rid of the same stuff that kills normal games of CO!
This means, remove xeno and webs. (or put a level cap of lv. 10 before you can get third hive abilities) That's half the battle, and will keep aliens from having extra domination over marines early game.
Otherwise you've got tweaks to do:
- Eathreal tracking: Fix this. It sucks! Aliens never get eathreal cloaking. - Eathreal cloaking: Fix this. It's worthless compared to the other upgrades!
I would suggest just them removing it altogether, and replacing them with new abilities. Say, like, bonus armor upgrades. And for marines add bonus weapon dmg upgrades. Or maybe bullets that drains adrenaline. I'm sure you can think of something cool.
Finally, in late game redempting aliens will destroy any chance marines have of getting some extra exp. Maybe make it so redempting aliens give 10% of what they would normally give for exp had they died. That way, it won't feel completely hapless to shoot the redempting onos.
Other than that, I like the 50 levels mod more than regular combat, it's more interesting. (even though skill-less) It's fun.
Forlorn: After level 3 stomp doesn't stop cyber marines any more... It slows them temporarily, but depending on level they can probably still outrun a non charge onos.
Depot: yes cybernetics is SOOO unbalanced, god forbid the marines have an advanate against teams full of infinate charge onos.
<!--QuoteBegin-NGE+Jun 19 2005, 01:30 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NGE @ Jun 19 2005, 01:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Jun 18 2005, 09:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Jun 18 2005, 09:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Jun 18 2005, 10:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Jun 18 2005, 10:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Breakthrough+Jun 18 2005, 08:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Breakthrough @ Jun 18 2005, 08:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-kalimxs+Jun 18 2005, 07:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kalimxs @ Jun 18 2005, 07:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Jun 18 2005, 06:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Jun 18 2005, 06:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->ya, but you can bhop around at a million mile per hour, totally impervious to stomp and web. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> this is irrelevent though because the aliens are all lerks/fades/onos <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think he was talking about the Marines (avoiding stomp) with the speed upgrade (cybernetics IIRC). It's fun to bunnyhop around the map as a Marine... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Stomp and web barely effect cyber marines at all. stomp and web decelleration is based on a max speed relevent model for marines it effects, and for JPs it just disables propultion. Cyber acctually increases marines speed push, so they can get hit by stomp or web and just experiance annoying decrease in max speed with thier gun going away, but still move insanely fast, usually avoiding the effects, JPs with level 4-5 cyber can't be seriously threatened by webs any more. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Which is precisely why the cost of Cybernetics needs to be set at 2 points per level. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Quick balance rant on 50 levels:
- Combat is alien baised. Giving aliens 50 levels means they have 50 more levels of bais.
- Cybernetics isn't hard to counter, it's a fine upgrade at just one point. Stomp still stops them dead in their tracks, and if you go cyber then you forgo a lot of good other upgrades like armor regen or jetpacks.
Honestly it's pretty noob if you can't deal with cybernetics. I also like how cyber counters web to some degree.
Cybernetics is nothing compared to a celerity fade with near unlimited celerity blink, or an onos with perma stomp who gets 10% health per kill and also can redeem, or lerks and webs who can spore/web up the wazoo.
One thing though, cybernetics is extremely annoying in lag. Makes the marines impossible to hit. Fast moving target + melee + lag + HL engine = GG
I've had plenty of games where I can just spit to death marines with focus spit who have cybernetics, webs still get rid of their weapons.
Honestly if you wanna balance out 50 levels here's what you do: Get rid of the same stuff that kills normal games of CO!
This means, remove xeno and webs. (or put a level cap of lv. 10 before you can get third hive abilities) That's half the battle, and will keep aliens from having extra domination over marines early game.
Otherwise you've got tweaks to do:
- Eathreal tracking: Fix this. It sucks! Aliens never get eathreal cloaking. - Eathreal cloaking: Fix this. It's worthless compared to the other upgrades!
I would suggest just them removing it altogether, and replacing them with new abilities. Say, like, bonus armor upgrades. And for marines add bonus weapon dmg upgrades. Or maybe bullets that drains adrenaline. I'm sure you can think of something cool.
Finally, in late game redempting aliens will destroy any chance marines have of getting some extra exp. Maybe make it so redempting aliens give 10% of what they would normally give for exp had they died. That way, it won't feel completely hapless to shoot the redempting onos.
Other than that, I like the 50 levels mod more than regular combat, it's more interesting. (even though skill-less) It's fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Just from skimming through your post I'd say your more informed than most regarding the plugin, but still very narrow minded in regards to several of it's features.
Extralevels2 does is not alien biased UNLESS the server op configs it that way. Actually it can be set up to favor the marines. Easily.
Cybernetics I recommend capping at 5 levels and charging 2 points a pop - assuming you have the plugin balanced.
Ethereal tracking and ethereal cloaking work fine to the best of my knowledge. There have been no known issues reported on it, so I'm assuming your experience with it is limited. They also are required to get hunger, again balancing the alien side.
Late game redempting aliens will more than likely own the marines whether this plugin is running or not.
If you'd seriously like to see this plugin modified in any way, I'd recommend posting your suggestions / issues <a href='http://www.modns.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=1189' target='_blank'>here</a>. Thanks for your input.
<!--QuoteBegin-spysnipedis+Jun 15 2005, 12:18 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (spysnipedis @ Jun 15 2005, 12:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> BTW: don't take the 50 levels plugin so badly, I mean I've seen many CAL members on them "when their bored". There will be modification for any game made so you can't stop it. It's like piracy vs anti-piracy, there will obviously be piracy. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Not on the aero servers you haven't. Most of us are banned.
And for the record NSArmslab.com servers don't run **** plugins, they are just huge servers... 16v16 combat. If you have a decent computer and can handle the FPS, those servers are an excellent place to play.
There are 0 servers I will play on apart from NSA Combat #1 NSA Combat #2 NSA Classic NSA Veteren server and of course, my team's server, which is sponsored by NSA
See a pattern?
Heed my words and play on the only servers that know what the hell NS is about... and cause I'm an admin on the vet server. :-p
<!--QuoteBegin-the hole+Jun 19 2005, 11:56 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (the hole @ Jun 19 2005, 11:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-spysnipedis+Jun 15 2005, 12:18 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (spysnipedis @ Jun 15 2005, 12:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> BTW: don't take the 50 levels plugin so badly, I mean I've seen many CAL members on them "when their bored". There will be modification for any game made so you can't stop it. It's like piracy vs anti-piracy, there will obviously be piracy. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not on the aero servers you haven't. Most of us are banned.
And for the record NSArmslab.com servers don't run **** plugins, they are just huge servers... 16v16 combat. If you have a decent computer and can handle the FPS, those servers are an excellent place to play.
There are 0 servers I will play on apart from NSA Combat #1 NSA Combat #2 NSA Classic NSA Veteren server and of course, my team's server, which is sponsored by NSA
See a pattern?
Heed my words and play on the only servers that know what the hell NS is about... and cause I'm an admin on the vet server. :-p <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> you too can be cool like prodigy if you play on NSA server, everyone!
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Jun 19 2005, 01:07 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Jun 19 2005, 01:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Forlorn: After level 3 stomp doesn't stop cyber marines any more... It slows them temporarily, but depending on level they can probably still outrun a non charge onos. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Ignoring the Forlorn comment, a basic marine is faster than a non-celerity onos. I've never seen stompt fail to stop a marine even when he's at lv. 7 cyber. Maybe I just haven't been paying attention.
Depot: I can tell just from the way you are posting you aren't going to change jack, so I'm not posting anywhere else.
<!--QuoteBegin-NGE+Jun 19 2005, 08:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NGE @ Jun 19 2005, 08:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Jun 19 2005, 01:07 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Jun 19 2005, 01:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Forlorn: After level 3 stomp doesn't stop cyber marines any more... It slows them temporarily, but depending on level they can probably still outrun a non charge onos. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ignoring the Forlorn comment, a basic marine is faster than a non-celerity onos. I've never seen stompt fail to stop a marine even when he's at lv. 7 cyber. Maybe I just haven't been paying attention.
Depot: I can tell just from the way you are posting you aren't going to change jack, so I'm not posting anywhere else. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> extralevels2 is not mine to change. I simply ported it from amx to amxx and in the process became quite familiar with it's workings.
I still contend the plugin is totally customizeable by the server op, who has the ability to balance it perfectly.
And why don't you like ethereal tracking and ethereal shift?
<!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Jun 19 2005, 07:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Jun 19 2005, 07:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-NGE+Jun 19 2005, 08:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NGE @ Jun 19 2005, 08:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Jun 19 2005, 01:07 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Jun 19 2005, 01:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Forlorn: After level 3 stomp doesn't stop cyber marines any more... It slows them temporarily, but depending on level they can probably still outrun a non charge onos. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ignoring the Forlorn comment, a basic marine is faster than a non-celerity onos. I've never seen stompt fail to stop a marine even when he's at lv. 7 cyber. Maybe I just haven't been paying attention.
Depot: I can tell just from the way you are posting you aren't going to change jack, so I'm not posting anywhere else. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> extralevels2 is not mine to change. I simply ported it from amx to amxx and in the process became quite familiar with it's workings.
I still contend the plugin is totally customizeable by the server op, who has the ability to balance it perfectly.
And why don't you like ethereal tracking and ethereal shift? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> HAHAHA YOU THINK SERVER OPS ARE COMPETENT
<!--QuoteBegin-kalimxs+Jun 19 2005, 08:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kalimxs @ Jun 19 2005, 08:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Jun 19 2005, 07:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Jun 19 2005, 07:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-NGE+Jun 19 2005, 08:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NGE @ Jun 19 2005, 08:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Jun 19 2005, 01:07 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Jun 19 2005, 01:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Forlorn: After level 3 stomp doesn't stop cyber marines any more... It slows them temporarily, but depending on level they can probably still outrun a non charge onos. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ignoring the Forlorn comment, a basic marine is faster than a non-celerity onos. I've never seen stompt fail to stop a marine even when he's at lv. 7 cyber. Maybe I just haven't been paying attention.
Depot: I can tell just from the way you are posting you aren't going to change jack, so I'm not posting anywhere else. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> extralevels2 is not mine to change. I simply ported it from amx to amxx and in the process became quite familiar with it's workings.
I still contend the plugin is totally customizeable by the server op, who has the ability to balance it perfectly.
And why don't you like ethereal tracking and ethereal shift? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> HAHAHA YOU THINK SERVER OPS ARE COMPETENT<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ya know, that's probably a good question. Often coders assume the people downloading their plugins at least have a working knowledge of what's inside, when in fact they simply could care less what's inside. They simply compile it then install it.
The solution here would be for the plugin creator to take a few extra moments before releasing it to ensure the default settings would leave the plugin balanced, if that's possible.
<!--QuoteBegin-Spetsnaz+Jun 19 2005, 09:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Spetsnaz @ Jun 19 2005, 09:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> CO is the slow painfull death of NS.
endgame <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Or .... ... .. . is Classic the slow death of Combat? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Jun 20 2005, 01:41 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Jun 20 2005, 01:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Spetsnaz+Jun 19 2005, 09:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Spetsnaz @ Jun 19 2005, 09:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> CO is the slow painfull death of NS.
endgame <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Or .... ... .. . is Classic the slow death of Combat? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> no because Classic is what made NS what it was. Now its a CS clone. Well in my eyes anyway
Necro<insert non-birthday-related title here>Join Date: 2002-08-09Member: 1118Members
<!--QuoteBegin-Cereal KillR+Jun 9 2005, 01:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cereal KillR @ Jun 9 2005, 01:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The problem is that no-one wants to learn playing NS <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> When I started, no-one knew how to play, so everyone was eager to play. Now everyone wants to chomp marines/shoot aliens without bothering to play the game. It's easy to change servers - it's hard to change the majority of players. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> which is why i feel combat was a bad move, and ever since then i've played less and less of ns.
<!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Jun 19 2005, 09:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Jun 19 2005, 09:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Spetsnaz+Jun 19 2005, 09:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Spetsnaz @ Jun 19 2005, 09:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> CO is the slow painfull death of NS.
endgame <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Or .... ... .. . is Classic the slow death of Combat? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Considering Classic is what makes NS worth playing, because it's <u>unique</u>, I'd say I'd take classic over combat any day.
Comments
Give the lv. 50 plugin a try, you can usually get a score about 250-300 within 30 min if you pick the right upgrades on aliens, and on marines it's huge challenge to win. I can live with it.
Give the lv. 50 plugin a try, you can usually get a score about 250-300 within 30 min if you pick the right upgrades on aliens, and on marines it's huge challenge to win. I can live with it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If such is the case you should have that server op either return it to default settings, or adjust the defines to where it's balanced. There's no reason extralevels2 cannot be adjusted to favor neither team. None.
Give the lv. 50 plugin a try, you can usually get a score about 250-300 within 30 min if you pick the right upgrades on aliens, and on marines it's huge challenge to win. I can live with it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
ya, but you can bhop around at a million mile per hour, totally impervious to stomp and web.
Give the lv. 50 plugin a try, you can usually get a score about 250-300 within 30 min if you pick the right upgrades on aliens, and on marines it's huge challenge to win. I can live with it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ya, but you can bhop around at a million mile per hour, totally impervious to stomp and web. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
this is irrelevent though because the aliens are all lerks/fades/onos
No, there is always the skulk with 1000 armor, making him near invincible.
this is irrelevent though because the aliens are all lerks/fades/onos <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think he was talking about the Marines (avoiding stomp) with the speed upgrade (cybernetics IIRC). It's fun to bunnyhop around the map as a Marine...
this is irrelevent though because the aliens are all lerks/fades/onos <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think he was talking about the Marines (avoiding stomp) with the speed upgrade (cybernetics IIRC). It's fun to bunnyhop around the map as a Marine... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Stomp and web barely effect cyber marines at all. stomp and web decelleration is based on a max speed relevent model for marines it effects, and for JPs it just disables propultion. Cyber acctually increases marines speed push, so they can get hit by stomp or web and just experiance annoying decrease in max speed with thier gun going away, but still move insanely fast, usually avoiding the effects, JPs with level 4-5 cyber can't be seriously threatened by webs any more.
this is irrelevent though because the aliens are all lerks/fades/onos <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think he was talking about the Marines (avoiding stomp) with the speed upgrade (cybernetics IIRC). It's fun to bunnyhop around the map as a Marine... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Stomp and web barely effect cyber marines at all. stomp and web decelleration is based on a max speed relevent model for marines it effects, and for JPs it just disables propultion. Cyber acctually increases marines speed push, so they can get hit by stomp or web and just experiance annoying decrease in max speed with thier gun going away, but still move insanely fast, usually avoiding the effects, JPs with level 4-5 cyber can't be seriously threatened by webs any more. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which is precisely why the cost of Cybernetics needs to be set at 2 points per level.
this is irrelevent though because the aliens are all lerks/fades/onos <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think he was talking about the Marines (avoiding stomp) with the speed upgrade (cybernetics IIRC). It's fun to bunnyhop around the map as a Marine... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Stomp and web barely effect cyber marines at all. stomp and web decelleration is based on a max speed relevent model for marines it effects, and for JPs it just disables propultion. Cyber acctually increases marines speed push, so they can get hit by stomp or web and just experiance annoying decrease in max speed with thier gun going away, but still move insanely fast, usually avoiding the effects, JPs with level 4-5 cyber can't be seriously threatened by webs any more. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which is precisely why the cost of Cybernetics needs to be set at 2 points per level. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, this is exactly why we need to 50 levels.
this is irrelevent though because the aliens are all lerks/fades/onos <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think he was talking about the Marines (avoiding stomp) with the speed upgrade (cybernetics IIRC). It's fun to bunnyhop around the map as a Marine... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Stomp and web barely effect cyber marines at all. stomp and web decelleration is based on a max speed relevent model for marines it effects, and for JPs it just disables propultion. Cyber acctually increases marines speed push, so they can get hit by stomp or web and just experiance annoying decrease in max speed with thier gun going away, but still move insanely fast, usually avoiding the effects, JPs with level 4-5 cyber can't be seriously threatened by webs any more. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which is precisely why the cost of Cybernetics needs to be set at 2 points per level. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
trying to balance the disaster you have created like this is like attempting to get rid of water in a sinking ship with a spoon.
this is irrelevent though because the aliens are all lerks/fades/onos <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think he was talking about the Marines (avoiding stomp) with the speed upgrade (cybernetics IIRC). It's fun to bunnyhop around the map as a Marine... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Stomp and web barely effect cyber marines at all. stomp and web decelleration is based on a max speed relevent model for marines it effects, and for JPs it just disables propultion. Cyber acctually increases marines speed push, so they can get hit by stomp or web and just experiance annoying decrease in max speed with thier gun going away, but still move insanely fast, usually avoiding the effects, JPs with level 4-5 cyber can't be seriously threatened by webs any more. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which is precisely why the cost of Cybernetics needs to be set at 2 points per level. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Quick balance rant on 50 levels:
- Combat is alien baised. Giving aliens 50 levels means they have 50 more levels of bais.
- Cybernetics isn't hard to counter, it's a fine upgrade at just one point. Stomp still stops them dead in their tracks, and if you go cyber then you forgo a lot of good other upgrades like armor regen or jetpacks.
Honestly it's pretty noob if you can't deal with cybernetics. I also like how cyber counters web to some degree.
Cybernetics is nothing compared to a celerity fade with near unlimited celerity blink, or an onos with perma stomp who gets 10% health per kill and also can redeem, or lerks and webs who can spore/web up the wazoo.
One thing though, cybernetics is extremely annoying in lag. Makes the marines impossible to hit. Fast moving target + melee + lag + HL engine = GG
I've had plenty of games where I can just spit to death marines with focus spit who have cybernetics, webs still get rid of their weapons.
Honestly if you wanna balance out 50 levels here's what you do: Get rid of the same stuff that kills normal games of CO!
This means, remove xeno and webs. (or put a level cap of lv. 10 before you can get third hive abilities) That's half the battle, and will keep aliens from having extra domination over marines early game.
Otherwise you've got tweaks to do:
- Eathreal tracking: Fix this. It sucks! Aliens never get eathreal cloaking.
- Eathreal cloaking: Fix this. It's worthless compared to the other upgrades!
I would suggest just them removing it altogether, and replacing them with new abilities. Say, like, bonus armor upgrades. And for marines add bonus weapon dmg upgrades. Or maybe bullets that drains adrenaline. I'm sure you can think of something cool.
Finally, in late game redempting aliens will destroy any chance marines have of getting some extra exp. Maybe make it so redempting aliens give 10% of what they would normally give for exp had they died. That way, it won't feel completely hapless to shoot the redempting onos.
Other than that, I like the 50 levels mod more than regular combat, it's more interesting. (even though skill-less) It's fun.
Depot: yes cybernetics is SOOO unbalanced, god forbid the marines have an advanate against teams full of infinate charge onos.
this is irrelevent though because the aliens are all lerks/fades/onos <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think he was talking about the Marines (avoiding stomp) with the speed upgrade (cybernetics IIRC). It's fun to bunnyhop around the map as a Marine... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Stomp and web barely effect cyber marines at all. stomp and web decelleration is based on a max speed relevent model for marines it effects, and for JPs it just disables propultion. Cyber acctually increases marines speed push, so they can get hit by stomp or web and just experiance annoying decrease in max speed with thier gun going away, but still move insanely fast, usually avoiding the effects, JPs with level 4-5 cyber can't be seriously threatened by webs any more. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which is precisely why the cost of Cybernetics needs to be set at 2 points per level. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Quick balance rant on 50 levels:
- Combat is alien baised. Giving aliens 50 levels means they have 50 more levels of bais.
- Cybernetics isn't hard to counter, it's a fine upgrade at just one point. Stomp still stops them dead in their tracks, and if you go cyber then you forgo a lot of good other upgrades like armor regen or jetpacks.
Honestly it's pretty noob if you can't deal with cybernetics. I also like how cyber counters web to some degree.
Cybernetics is nothing compared to a celerity fade with near unlimited celerity blink, or an onos with perma stomp who gets 10% health per kill and also can redeem, or lerks and webs who can spore/web up the wazoo.
One thing though, cybernetics is extremely annoying in lag. Makes the marines impossible to hit. Fast moving target + melee + lag + HL engine = GG
I've had plenty of games where I can just spit to death marines with focus spit who have cybernetics, webs still get rid of their weapons.
Honestly if you wanna balance out 50 levels here's what you do: Get rid of the same stuff that kills normal games of CO!
This means, remove xeno and webs. (or put a level cap of lv. 10 before you can get third hive abilities) That's half the battle, and will keep aliens from having extra domination over marines early game.
Otherwise you've got tweaks to do:
- Eathreal tracking: Fix this. It sucks! Aliens never get eathreal cloaking.
- Eathreal cloaking: Fix this. It's worthless compared to the other upgrades!
I would suggest just them removing it altogether, and replacing them with new abilities. Say, like, bonus armor upgrades. And for marines add bonus weapon dmg upgrades. Or maybe bullets that drains adrenaline. I'm sure you can think of something cool.
Finally, in late game redempting aliens will destroy any chance marines have of getting some extra exp. Maybe make it so redempting aliens give 10% of what they would normally give for exp had they died. That way, it won't feel completely hapless to shoot the redempting onos.
Other than that, I like the 50 levels mod more than regular combat, it's more interesting. (even though skill-less) It's fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just from skimming through your post I'd say your more informed than most regarding the plugin, but still very narrow minded in regards to several of it's features.
Extralevels2 does is not alien biased UNLESS the server op configs it that way. Actually it can be set up to favor the marines. Easily.
Cybernetics I recommend capping at 5 levels and charging 2 points a pop - assuming you have the plugin balanced.
Ethereal tracking and ethereal cloaking work fine to the best of my knowledge. There have been no known issues reported on it, so I'm assuming your experience with it is limited. They also are required to get hunger, again balancing the alien side.
Late game redempting aliens will more than likely own the marines whether this plugin is running or not.
If you'd seriously like to see this plugin modified in any way, I'd recommend posting your suggestions / issues <a href='http://www.modns.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=1189' target='_blank'>here</a>. Thanks for your input.
That is all.
Not on the aero servers you haven't. Most of us are banned.
And for the record NSArmslab.com servers don't run **** plugins, they are just huge servers... 16v16 combat. If you have a decent computer and can handle the FPS, those servers are an excellent place to play.
There are 0 servers I will play on apart from
NSA Combat #1
NSA Combat #2
NSA Classic
NSA Veteren server
and of course, my team's server, which is sponsored by NSA
See a pattern?
Heed my words and play on the only servers that know what the hell NS is about... and cause I'm an admin on the vet server. :-p
Not on the aero servers you haven't. Most of us are banned.
And for the record NSArmslab.com servers don't run **** plugins, they are just huge servers... 16v16 combat. If you have a decent computer and can handle the FPS, those servers are an excellent place to play.
There are 0 servers I will play on apart from
NSA Combat #1
NSA Combat #2
NSA Classic
NSA Veteren server
and of course, my team's server, which is sponsored by NSA
See a pattern?
Heed my words and play on the only servers that know what the hell NS is about... and cause I'm an admin on the vet server. :-p <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
you too can be cool like prodigy if you play on NSA server, everyone!
gogogo!
Ignoring the Forlorn comment, a basic marine is faster than a non-celerity onos. I've never seen stompt fail to stop a marine even when he's at lv. 7 cyber. Maybe I just haven't been paying attention.
Depot: I can tell just from the way you are posting you aren't going to change jack, so I'm not posting anywhere else.
Ignoring the Forlorn comment, a basic marine is faster than a non-celerity onos. I've never seen stompt fail to stop a marine even when he's at lv. 7 cyber. Maybe I just haven't been paying attention.
Depot: I can tell just from the way you are posting you aren't going to change jack, so I'm not posting anywhere else. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
extralevels2 is not mine to change. I simply ported it from amx to amxx and in the process became quite familiar with it's workings.
I still contend the plugin is totally customizeable by the server op, who has the ability to balance it perfectly.
And why don't you like ethereal tracking and ethereal shift?
Ignoring the Forlorn comment, a basic marine is faster than a non-celerity onos. I've never seen stompt fail to stop a marine even when he's at lv. 7 cyber. Maybe I just haven't been paying attention.
Depot: I can tell just from the way you are posting you aren't going to change jack, so I'm not posting anywhere else. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
extralevels2 is not mine to change. I simply ported it from amx to amxx and in the process became quite familiar with it's workings.
I still contend the plugin is totally customizeable by the server op, who has the ability to balance it perfectly.
And why don't you like ethereal tracking and ethereal shift? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
HAHAHA YOU THINK SERVER OPS ARE COMPETENT
Ignoring the Forlorn comment, a basic marine is faster than a non-celerity onos. I've never seen stompt fail to stop a marine even when he's at lv. 7 cyber. Maybe I just haven't been paying attention.
Depot: I can tell just from the way you are posting you aren't going to change jack, so I'm not posting anywhere else. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
extralevels2 is not mine to change. I simply ported it from amx to amxx and in the process became quite familiar with it's workings.
I still contend the plugin is totally customizeable by the server op, who has the ability to balance it perfectly.
And why don't you like ethereal tracking and ethereal shift? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
HAHAHA YOU THINK SERVER OPS ARE COMPETENT<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ya know, that's probably a good question. Often coders assume the people downloading their plugins at least have a working knowledge of what's inside, when in fact they simply could care less what's inside. They simply compile it then install it.
The solution here would be for the plugin creator to take a few extra moments before releasing it to ensure the default settings would leave the plugin balanced, if that's possible.
endgame
endgame <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or .... ... .. . is Classic the slow death of Combat? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
endgame <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or .... ... .. . is Classic the slow death of Combat? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
no because Classic is what made NS what it was. Now its a CS clone. Well in my eyes anyway
which is why i feel combat was a bad move, and ever since then i've played less and less of ns.
endgame <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or .... ... .. . is Classic the slow death of Combat? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Considering Classic is what makes NS worth playing, because it's <u>unique</u>, I'd say I'd take classic over combat any day.