Public players really fail to it's a two way street. When you call people arrogant, elitist, out to win self obsessed having no fun script kiddies what sort of response do you expect to get? And naturally when we retort we're just fuelling the image they already have. It's time public players realised that shouting their uninformed and ignorant opinions at us is only going to result in a negative attitude being sent back to them. It's hard to not like the public sector of NS when they preach a load of idiotic crap. And then they wonder why clanners don't like them.
EDIT: It's not even the scripts, I'm talking about DOOManiac. The scripting part is pretty funny though, I mean the guy thought you'd press space once and jump 3 times. He hasn't even tried using a 3jump yet is still attempt to making opinions about it. I'm pretty sure that sort of thing isn't allowed in the discussion forum where you have to back yourself up, not be uniformed and make random statements.
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
Well, I'm an op in #ns ( and was before I became a dev ) and I'll gladly discuss scripting with anyone. You shouldn't tar us all with the one brush, isn't that what you accuse others of doing to you? These people were just expressing their opinion, I didn't see anyone trying to censor your opinion. You are entitled to represent your opinion on scripting here on the forums and in the irc channel. If the majority of discussion in #ns is anti-scripting then that is because the majority of people who talk in NS are anti-scripting. You can't just discount their opinion because you believe or know it is wrong. <b>Get a grip</b>.
And to draw a correlation between a discussion in #ns and the stagnation of the competitive scene is stretching it, but if you really need to create scapegoats then there are much bigger problems than a few random stranger's opinions.
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
edited June 2005
<!--QuoteBegin-MrBen+Jun 18 2005, 11:15 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrBen @ Jun 18 2005, 11:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'd like to take this moment to say: LOL.
Public players really fail to it's a two way street. When you call people arrogant, elitist, out to win self obsessed having no fun script kiddies what sort of response do you expect to get? And naturally when we retort we're just fuelling the image they already have. It's time public players realised that shouting their uninformed and ignorant opinions at us is only going to result in a negative attitude being sent back to them. It's hard to not like the public sector of NS when they preach a load of idiotic crap. And then they wonder why clanners don't like them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's ironic that you recongise the two way street ad then proceed to drive a bus down the wrong side of it.
Sorry, but what did you expect when apparently I'm some sort of die hard WIN OR DIE machine who doesn't have fun playing NS? It's hard to show people respect when they don't do the same to you. And note this discussion came about through public players comments, not ours. I'm merely replying to DOOM's somewhat comical statements, maybe it was naive of me to expect something more from a NS OP and long standing member of the community.
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
edited June 2005
I know exactly what I *expected*, MrBen. But seriously, just come to #ns and discuss the game. You can create all the conspiracy theories in the world, but here we have a single point of contention with a very simple solution... so are we going to open a can of internet drama about it or just do the sensible thing?
HI BEN <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Firewater+Jun 17 2005, 12:05 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Firewater @ Jun 17 2005, 12:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The fact that *edited so my digital text doesn't eFend someone*did not include bunnyhopping in his manual makes it incomplete. But of course this post will probably be edited.
There was no reason (other than maybe his own ignorance on the subject) NOT to include as so many players see it as an essential part of the game. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I would definitely not describe NiteOwl as 'ignorant'.
<!--QuoteBegin-Router Box+Jun 17 2005, 06:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Router Box @ Jun 17 2005, 06:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-DRagon+Jun 17 2005, 11:36 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DRagon @ Jun 17 2005, 11:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Anderval+Jun 17 2005, 05:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Anderval @ Jun 17 2005, 05:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-DRagon+Jun 17 2005, 05:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DRagon @ Jun 17 2005, 05:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Golden+Jun 13 2005, 08:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Golden @ Jun 13 2005, 08:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I am sick of listening to people whine about how much scripts effect gameplay. They don't that much. Take any top level clan you want (Terror, Exi, LoC, Reflect, knife, etc.) and make them play without scripts. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> knife is playing without scripts... i don't know any euro playing in euro league wich ones use scripts :O. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> i like the way he included LoC along with Terror exigent and knife, anyway yeah,
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> yeah that is strange :O. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> LoC tied both exi and terror this season and are entering the playoffs ranked 4th. They haven't stopped their sharp improvement since it began at the beginning of last season. They are most likely the worst team of that group, but they aren't out of place. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> it's not so dificult to tie at 1 map... especialy in ns 3.04... and we'll see wich clan is the best on LAN(if there will be some).
#naturalselection is an embarassment, really. Tons (not all, I know there are some intelligent ones) of the ops there have no friggin idea what they are talking about, in terms of NS, CAL, clans, scripts, WHATEVER.
Ari tried to tell me that he could bhop at 500 units per second groundspeed as a gorge... I think I still have the logs. I tried to tell him that's not possible and that he is probably mistaken (and I asked for some sort of proof that he can bhop at 500 units) and he literally got angry at me and banned me from the channel after he insulted me.
The hypocrisy and ignorance there is <b><i>overwhelming</b></i>.
Edit: Since when was it okay to hate someone because he has a different definition of 'fun' (winning vs dicking around/whatever) than you do?
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
Yes, lets progress the conversation towards a mutually satisfactory conclusion by trying to name and shame specific ops. Right now in #ns more than 10% of ops are CAL players. That is a disproprotionately large representation. So what exactly are you saying Nadagast?
20% of the development team are CAL players. 66.66.% of the playtest leads are CAL players. 50% of exterminators are CAL players. At least 20% of playtesters are CAL quality. All of these are disproportionately large representaitons. But you seem hellbent on painting us all with the one brush, so I'm probably wasting my time pointing this out to you.
<!--QuoteBegin-Nadagast+Jun 18 2005, 08:48 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nadagast @ Jun 18 2005, 08:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Tons <b>(not all, I know there are some intelligent ones)</b> of the ops there have no friggin idea what they are talking about, in terms of NS, CAL, clans, scripts, WHATEVER. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Puzl how can you say that I seem to want to 'paint you all with one brush', when I specifically said in my post above that there are intelligent ones? <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Did you miss that part?
I applaud you for having that many CAL players on the team (devs, PT leads, etc) but that doesn't mean that I can excuse the hypocritical and ignorant behavior that many (not all!) of the ops in #NS display on a regular basis.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yes, lets progress the conversation towards a mutually satisfactory conclusion by trying to name and shame specific ops. Right now in #ns more than 10% of ops are CAL players. That is a disproprotionately large representation. So what exactly are you saying Nadagast?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What am I saying? I'm saying that there are some ignorant and hypocritical ops in #NS and they should be removed, regardless of how many of the ops are CAL players... as far as I can see the number of CAL players that have ops doesn't really matter, as long as the people who have ops aren't as insanely biased/ignorant to the facts as some of the current ones are...
every time I EVER go into #naturalselection the only people there are the ones who think like DOOManiac
I only go in there about as much as someone just getting into the game would
people who just joined the IRC channel are probably intimidated at first because hey, this is a pretty big channel what if they mess up on irc !! so they are just going to sit there and absorb all this **** said by the majority of ops and by far the majority of regular idlers
the only competitive representation in there is probably not going to say anything and even if they did, why would the new players listen, because hey, these guys who dont play in clans are like their friends from x, y and z servers and they're so friendly compared to those mean and nasty clanners
tankefuglOne Script To Rule Them All...Trondheim, NorwayJoin Date: 2002-11-14Member: 8641Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Am I reading this right? The #ns irc ops are the cause of NS competitive stagnation ...?
Are we running out of scapegoats to blame? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-tankefugl+Jun 18 2005, 09:49 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (tankefugl @ Jun 18 2005, 09:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Am I reading this right? The #ns irc ops are the cause of NS competitive stagnation ...?
Are we running out of scapegoats to blame? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> i dont think so really, i'm just sick of the #naturalselection ops being **** about competitive play
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
Channel ops aren't selected based only on their knowledge of the game, so you just have to accept that some ops will be less informed about some things than you would like them to be.
If you have a complaint to make about a specific incident then this is definately not the place to do it.
TheAdjHe demanded a cool forum title of some type.Join Date: 2004-05-03Member: 28436Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
edited June 2005
The fact that CAL players or their Euro equivalents make up X% of certain official NS groups doesn't make up for the fact that certain individuals in #ns as well as certain forum mods/pts/devs/etc etc are anti-clan to the point that they will trash talk individual people in their official capacity. Even as a PT I have been totally talked down to by quite a few ops and forum admins due to my competitive history. Some of the people mentioned in this thread were the ones that spoke to me in this manner, and some haven't been mentioned yet.
I won't stereotype people in #ns as ignorant clan haters, but quite a few that populate that channel 24/7 are completely against competitive play and will say nothing positive about it at all to save their lives. The proportion of arrogant clanners to pubber idiots doesn't have an effect on my opinion that certain ops shouldn't be ops, just as certain forum mods shouldn't be mods. If a mod or op were anti-pubber I'd have the same opinion, I can swing either way on the issue. I was and still am to some extent a strong believer in competitive players being the strongest members in the community in terms of longevity and contributions to it, but I do understand the value of a large public player base and the value those players have (Mostly due to speaking with puzl, nem, zuni, and a few other assorted pts/devs). This view doesn't excuse the blatant lack of respect certain individuals show to clans and competitive players in their capacity as "community leaders".
I've been told I should tone down what I say due to my PT Status and position in the community, others should be held to the same standard. If you disagree, look up the word standard on dictionary.com, then maybe you will understand.
Pre-emptive edit before some jack-**** replies: Yes, everyone has a bad day. I've said some pretty negative things to people, even to certain developers and other groups. Saying something negative a time or two to someone is one thing, demonstrating a blatant lack of respect for a person based on something as trivial as "you're in a cal clan" is pretty ridiculous.
The opinion of community leaders will filter down and if you're an op in the official NS channel then you're a community leader to some degree. Whilst ops are obviously not directly responsible, it is clear the misrepresentation (hey, we play to have fun like anyone else) amongest people which is spread by ops -- saying things like this -- is clearly the real cause of the problem and is scaring people away from competitive NS.
The worst part is, despite a HUGE amount of public players saying what they want from NS is teamwork and communication they refuse to embrace competitive NS because they fear they'll stray into the dark side of NS gaming and become some self obsessed WIN OR DIE robot who doesn't have fun. Regardless of how many posts like this are made on the forums peoples opinions do not change. Ignorance is bliss and far easier than admitting that you misjudged an entire community of people.
<!--QuoteBegin-a civilian+Jun 18 2005, 01:04 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (a civilian @ Jun 18 2005, 01:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> [01:41:16] <DOOManiac|MomsComputer> i'd gladly play someone who sucks so much they need a rocket jump script, cause i will own them to pieces >:D [01:41:25] <DOOManiac|MomsComputer> q1 dm3 pwnage <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> you can tell he got flipping destroyed in that game too by scripting clanners as well as this one
tankefuglOne Script To Rule Them All...Trondheim, NorwayJoin Date: 2002-11-14Member: 8641Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Please, what has all this to do with the original thread's subject?
TheAdjHe demanded a cool forum title of some type.Join Date: 2004-05-03Member: 28436Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-tankefugl+Jun 18 2005, 10:45 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (tankefugl @ Jun 18 2005, 10:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Please, what has all this to do with the original thread's subject? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The point is that negative attitudes held by certain individuals that are ops in #ns, as well as other "community leaders", definitely have an influence on players that see those attitudes. It does not help the competitive community that people with ops in #ns, who should always represent the most respected people in the community, say things like "clans are worthless" or "clanners are dirty scripters and have no skill", etc etc. Get the point now?
tankefuglOne Script To Rule Them All...Trondheim, NorwayJoin Date: 2002-11-14Member: 8641Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited June 2005
Let me re-iterate the subject mentioned on page one. Feel free to re-read it if you're unsure of what it contains. This is what the thread's first post's author emphasized with bold:
- "I've been wondering about how much of a positive effect that scripting has had on the NS Competitive scene." - "This can only serve to further the gap and the animosity between competitive and pub players as ignorance leads to spite."
Note that you have de-railed this into something completely different: How appointed community members view the competitive scene and scripting, and what effect this might have. Yes, these subjects can be related, but the way this thread goes it looks more like a witch hunt.
So put this thread back on track or don't post at all.
<!--QuoteBegin-tankefugl+Jun 18 2005, 10:58 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (tankefugl @ Jun 18 2005, 10:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Let me re-iterate the subject mentioned on page one. Feel free to re-read it if you're unsure of what it contains. This is what the thread's first post's author emphasized with bold:
- "I've been wondering about how much of a positive effect that scripting has had on the NS Competitive scene." - "This can only serve to further the gap and the animosity between competitive and pub players as ignorance leads to spite."
Note that you have de-railed this into something completely different: How appointed community members view the competitive scene and scripting, and what effect this might have. Yes, these subjects can be related, but the way this thread goes it looks more like a witch hunt.
So put this thread back on track or don't post at all. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Uh, if community "leaders" are so ignorant about the way scripts are used in NS, what does that tell you about the direction of the game?
Threads evolve and we're now discussing other alternatives for the down fall of competitive NS. No point going back several stages in the discussion to just repeat random points we all agreed on back at page 4.
<!--QuoteBegin-MrBen+Jun 18 2005, 11:11 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrBen @ Jun 18 2005, 11:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Threads evolve and we're now discussing other alternatives for the down fall of competitive NS. No point going back several stages in the discussion to just repeat random points we all agreed on back at page 4. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Like it matters anyway, no matter what the competitive community tells them these days they get second guessed, pointless to even discuss
Comments
Public players really fail to it's a two way street. When you call people arrogant, elitist, out to win self obsessed having no fun script kiddies what sort of response do you expect to get? And naturally when we retort we're just fuelling the image they already have. It's time public players realised that shouting their uninformed and ignorant opinions at us is only going to result in a negative attitude being sent back to them. It's hard to not like the public sector of NS when they preach a load of idiotic crap. And then they wonder why clanners don't like them.
EDIT: It's not even the scripts, I'm talking about DOOManiac. The scripting part is pretty funny though, I mean the guy thought you'd press space once and jump 3 times. He hasn't even tried using a 3jump yet is still attempt to making opinions about it. I'm pretty sure that sort of thing isn't allowed in the discussion forum where you have to back yourself up, not be uniformed and make random statements.
And to draw a correlation between a discussion in #ns and the stagnation of the competitive scene is stretching it, but if you really need to create scapegoats then there are much bigger problems than a few random stranger's opinions.
Public players really fail to it's a two way street. When you call people arrogant, elitist, out to win self obsessed having no fun script kiddies what sort of response do you expect to get? And naturally when we retort we're just fuelling the image they already have. It's time public players realised that shouting their uninformed and ignorant opinions at us is only going to result in a negative attitude being sent back to them. It's hard to not like the public sector of NS when they preach a load of idiotic crap. And then they wonder why clanners don't like them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's ironic that you recongise the two way street ad then proceed to drive a bus down the wrong side of it.
[edit: awesome sig ben]
There was no reason (other than maybe his own ignorance on the subject) NOT to include as so many players see it as an essential part of the game. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would definitely not describe NiteOwl as 'ignorant'.
knife is playing without scripts... i don't know any euro playing in euro league wich ones use scripts :O. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i like the way he included LoC along with Terror exigent and knife, anyway yeah,
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah that is strange :O. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
LoC tied both exi and terror this season and are entering the playoffs ranked 4th. They haven't stopped their sharp improvement since it began at the beginning of last season. They are most likely the worst team of that group, but they aren't out of place. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
it's not so dificult to tie at 1 map... especialy in ns 3.04...
and we'll see wich clan is the best on LAN(if there will be some).
Ari tried to tell me that he could bhop at 500 units per second groundspeed as a gorge... I think I still have the logs. I tried to tell him that's not possible and that he is probably mistaken (and I asked for some sort of proof that he can bhop at 500 units) and he literally got angry at me and banned me from the channel after he insulted me.
The hypocrisy and ignorance there is <b><i>overwhelming</b></i>.
Edit: Since when was it okay to hate someone because he has a different definition of 'fun' (winning vs dicking around/whatever) than you do?
20% of the development team are CAL players. 66.66.% of the playtest leads are CAL players. 50% of exterminators are CAL players. At least 20% of playtesters are CAL quality. All of these are disproportionately large representaitons. But you seem hellbent on painting us all with the one brush, so I'm probably wasting my time pointing this out to you.
Puzl how can you say that I seem to want to 'paint you all with one brush', when I specifically said in my post above that there are intelligent ones? <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Did you miss that part?
I applaud you for having that many CAL players on the team (devs, PT leads, etc) but that doesn't mean that I can excuse the hypocritical and ignorant behavior that many (not all!) of the ops in #NS display on a regular basis.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yes, lets progress the conversation towards a mutually satisfactory conclusion by trying to name and shame specific ops. Right now in #ns more than 10% of ops are CAL players. That is a disproprotionately large representation. So what exactly are you saying Nadagast?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What am I saying? I'm saying that there are some ignorant and hypocritical ops in #NS and they should be removed, regardless of how many of the ops are CAL players... as far as I can see the number of CAL players that have ops doesn't really matter, as long as the people who have ops aren't as insanely biased/ignorant to the facts as some of the current ones are...
I only go in there about as much as someone just getting into the game would
people who just joined the IRC channel are probably intimidated at first because hey, this is a pretty big channel what if they mess up on irc !! so they are just going to sit there and absorb all this **** said by the majority of ops and by far the majority of regular idlers
the only competitive representation in there is probably not going to say anything and even if they did, why would the new players listen, because hey, these guys who dont play in clans are like their friends from x, y and z servers and they're so friendly compared to those mean and nasty clanners
Are we running out of scapegoats to blame? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Are we running out of scapegoats to blame? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
i dont think so really, i'm just sick of the #naturalselection ops being **** about competitive play
If you have a complaint to make about a specific incident then this is definately not the place to do it.
I won't stereotype people in #ns as ignorant clan haters, but quite a few that populate that channel 24/7 are completely against competitive play and will say nothing positive about it at all to save their lives. The proportion of arrogant clanners to pubber idiots doesn't have an effect on my opinion that certain ops shouldn't be ops, just as certain forum mods shouldn't be mods. If a mod or op were anti-pubber I'd have the same opinion, I can swing either way on the issue. I was and still am to some extent a strong believer in competitive players being the strongest members in the community in terms of longevity and contributions to it, but I do understand the value of a large public player base and the value those players have (Mostly due to speaking with puzl, nem, zuni, and a few other assorted pts/devs). This view doesn't excuse the blatant lack of respect certain individuals show to clans and competitive players in their capacity as "community leaders".
I've been told I should tone down what I say due to my PT Status and position in the community, others should be held to the same standard. If you disagree, look up the word standard on dictionary.com, then maybe you will understand.
Pre-emptive edit before some jack-**** replies: Yes, everyone has a bad day. I've said some pretty negative things to people, even to certain developers and other groups. Saying something negative a time or two to someone is one thing, demonstrating a blatant lack of respect for a person based on something as trivial as "you're in a cal clan" is pretty ridiculous.
The worst part is, despite a HUGE amount of public players saying what they want from NS is teamwork and communication they refuse to embrace competitive NS because they fear they'll stray into the dark side of NS gaming and become some self obsessed WIN OR DIE robot who doesn't have fun. Regardless of how many posts like this are made on the forums peoples opinions do not change. Ignorance is bliss and far easier than admitting that you misjudged an entire community of people.
Yes, clanners are real people, just like you.
[01:41:16] <DOOManiac|MomsComputer> i'd gladly play someone who sucks so much they need a rocket jump script, cause i will own them to pieces >:D
[01:41:25] <DOOManiac|MomsComputer> q1 dm3 pwnage
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
you can tell he got flipping destroyed in that game too by scripting clanners as well as this one
The point is that negative attitudes held by certain individuals that are ops in #ns, as well as other "community leaders", definitely have an influence on players that see those attitudes. It does not help the competitive community that people with ops in #ns, who should always represent the most respected people in the community, say things like "clans are worthless" or "clanners are dirty scripters and have no skill", etc etc. Get the point now?
- "I've been wondering about how much of a positive effect that scripting has had on the NS Competitive scene."
- "This can only serve to further the gap and the animosity between competitive and pub players as ignorance leads to spite."
Note that you have de-railed this into something completely different: How appointed community members view the competitive scene and scripting, and what effect this might have. Yes, these subjects can be related, but the way this thread goes it looks more like a witch hunt.
So put this thread back on track or don't post at all.
- "I've been wondering about how much of a positive effect that scripting has had on the NS Competitive scene."
- "This can only serve to further the gap and the animosity between competitive and pub players as ignorance leads to spite."
Note that you have de-railed this into something completely different: How appointed community members view the competitive scene and scripting, and what effect this might have. Yes, these subjects can be related, but the way this thread goes it looks more like a witch hunt.
So put this thread back on track or don't post at all. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uh, if community "leaders" are so ignorant about the way scripts are used in NS, what does that tell you about the direction of the game?
Like it matters anyway, no matter what the competitive community tells them these days they get second guessed, pointless to even discuss