Twg Vi: Post-game Thread

Sky · June 2005

<div class="IPBDescription">Whew...long one eh?</div> *Edited with Freak's info*

Wow...that was one long game. First the awards.

MVP - shared by Isamil and im lost. im lost for getting the seer's message (along with his own) out to the group, and more importantly convincing them. Isamil did a fine job of finishing up the game before getting offed by the wolves.

Honorable mention - Legionnaired, for sniffing out the wolf's plot so early...and then knowing too much for his own good. Your story was so good, no one believed you. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />

<span style='color:green'>1. TheMuffinMan (human, wolfed Night 7)</span>
<span style='color:green'>2. Comprox (human, lynched day 2)</span>
<span style='color:green'>3. EMP Demon (human, lynched day 7)</span>
<span style='color:blue'>4. im lost (Psychic, wolfed day 6)</span>
<span style='color:green'>5. Swiftspear (human, Psycho-ed night 1)</span>
<span style='color:green'>6. CMEast (human, SURVIVED)</span>
<span style='color:green'>7. brute force (human, Psycho-ed night 3)</span>
<span style='color:red'>8. Theslan (wolf, lynched day 5)</span>
<span style='color:green'>9. Petco (human, wolfed night 5)</span>
<span style='color:green'>10. Xentor (human, wolfed night 2)</span>
<span style='color:green'>11. Snidely (human, wolfed night 1)</span>
<span style='color:red'>12. Breakthrough (wolf, lynched day 8)</span>
<span style='color:green'>13. Mouse (human, SURVIVED)</span>
<span style='color:green'>14. Pulse (human, lynched day 4)</span>
<span style='color:green'>15. Cyndane (human, SURVIVED) </span>
<span style='color:green'>16. Legionnaired (human, lynched day 3)</span>
<span style='color:green'>17. Gwahir (human, wolfed night 4)</span>
<span style='color:red'>18. Quaunaut (wolf, lynched day 6)</span>
<span style='color:blue'>19. Isamil (seer, SURVIVED)</span>
<span style='color:purple'>20. SaltzBad (Psychopath, wolfed night 3)</span>
<span style='color:green'>21. ZeroByte (human, wolfed night 8)</span>
<span style='color:green'>22. Cheetah (human, psycho-ed night 2)</span>
<span style='color:green'>23. Condizzle (human, lynched day 1)</span>

Night 1:
Mantrid seered Condizzle
Wolves killed Snidely
Saltz killed Swiftspear

Day 1: Condizzle Lynched

Night 2:
Mantrid seered Comprox
Wolves killed Xentor
Saltz killed Cheetah

Day 2: Comprox lynched

Night 3:
Mantrid seered (randomly) Mouse
Wolves killed SaltzBad
Saltz killed brute_force

Day 3: Legionnaired lynched

Night 4:
Isamil seered im lost
Wolves killed Gwahir

Day 4: Pulse lynched

Night 5:
Isamil seered Theslan
Wolves killed Petco

Day 5: Theslan lynched

Night 6:
Isamil seered Quaunaut
Wolves killed im lost

Day 6: Quaunaut lynched

Night 7:
Isamil seered TheMuffinMan
Wolves killed TheMuffinMan

Day 7: EMP Demon lynched

Night 8:
Isamil seered Breakthrough
Wolves killed ZeroByte

Day 8: Breakthrough lynched

Alright, here's the first part of my notes, to be edited when I find the second half.

Night 1 - I missed most of the action in the channel, so no real comments here

Day 1 - DDos attacks continue on Gamesurge, making discussion supremely difficult. I find it interesting (and slightly worrying) that a good many special roles have votes against them early on in the day - Quaunaut, Breakthrough, SaltzBad.

I don't know who I would like to win yet, but I do know I don't want this to be a short game. TheMuffinMan just informed me that Saltz pmed him and said that Swift had seered him, right before Swift was killed (by Saltz, of course). IMO, Saltz is being far too bold, but then again he's SUPPOSED to be a crazy guy, right? Saltz is a pro at muddying the waters, kudos to him.

TheMuffinMan is trying to put off the search for the psychopath, basically claiming it's impossible. Considering that no one really thinks Saltz is bad, just weird, he's quite right.

Might I throw in a comment right now that it's incredibly hard to not say anything incriminating in the channel? Whenever talk of someone suspicious comes up, I shut up...but then that seems like they're on the right track, so I say some random nonsense...then I shut up again...it's a vicious cycle.

Sigh, it looks like either Saltz or Breakthrough is going to be voted out...objectively speaking, it'd be better for the wolves if Breakthrough went today, but of course they don't know Saltz is the psychopath. I have no hope in either a psychopath or a wolf win, at this point. Sad, really; I thought this would be harder for the humans, not incredibly easy. Of course, what are the odds that the first day's gangup happens on two of the "bad" special roles...

Oh, Condizzle opened his mouth a little too wide, and a bunch of votes got shoved into the gaping whole. No offense to Condizzle when he's reading this in the postgame, but I hope you get voted out, for the simple reason that it'll keep the game interesting. At least Breakthrough seems to be in the clear. You <i>almost</i> killed yourself with that "accidental" vote for TheMuffinMan; if that <i>wasn't</i> accidental, your recovery was superb.

Wow, Condizzle really loves playing in the sandbox, cause he's digging himself a deeper and deeper hole. It's almost a sure thing that he's dead today. Best get on that story...ouch, Theslan, Theslan, what are you doing? Why try to draw attention from the bandwagon? Why draw attention to yourself? Why try to implicate 9 inactives when you are so close to getting Condizzle out, and all of the wolves are unscathed? Very very bad move; if people weren't so focused on Condizzle, and if Night weren't coming so soon, people might have called you on it.

O_O WTH, Condizzle, you can't just openly ask people to vote someone out instead of you. I don't think anyone can reply to that...or _should_ reply to that...it'd just be putting a big target on their own forehead, tbh.

Night 2 - TheMuffinMan tells me that Condizzle contacted him, saying that he had been seered and contacted by the seer. TheMuffinMan didn't believe him. Oops.

Day 2 - hmm, both the wolves and the psychopath seem to be going for the "weak" players. Interesting strategy...For the record, cMEast, statements like "I'm human" don't help you; if anything they hurt you. So..don't do that.

Brute_force's logic is impeccable, but the wolves were too smart to be goaded into voting for Condizzle. Props to them for not falling into that little trap; you've thrown many people off of your scent, I think. And Saltz, for his part, does an admirable job of diverting attention from himself by specifically talking about how his voting pattern actually looks suspicious.

Another pm from TheMuffinMan - apparently he's started a fake seer network with saltzBad. The irony is delicious. They "seered" Snidely on night 1, and "seered" Pulse last night. They're doing this to, apparently, gauge reactions from people in order to find wolves, and also to be a shield for the real seer. Right now, I'm glad I'm not playing this game; it seems incredibly confusing, and I KNOW what's going on.

Speaking of confusing, I'm rather confused as to what exactly Legionnaired thinks he's doing. Of course, from my perspective, he's 100% correct in his assessment of the situation, however, since no one else can actually trust him, being so forceful and cocky looks rather...wolfish, I would say. I wouldn't be surprised if Saltz kills him tonight, to shake things up a bit.

...just got a pm from Mantrid. TBH, I think the players'll lynch him before I have to replace him, which is sad considering he's the seer....If Comprox goes today, though, the irony will be delicious: two confirmed humans lynched in a row.

im lost explains Legion's erratic behavior as such: im lost contacted Legionnaired anonymously. Legionnaired tried to buy time for a fake psychic to come out by posting that he still hadn't been contacted. He then pm-ed everyone he trusted the anonymous aim account of the psychic. These people were im lost, Comprox, Quaunaut, and SaltzBad. im lost then told legionnaired his real name, because obviously legion trusts im lost anyway. Of course, if legionnaried spills the identity to the people he trusts - now cut down to just quaunaut and Saltz - he'll be sharing the psychic's identity with a WOLF AND THE PSYCHOPATH! This game is too funny. There should be no hope of a human win at this point, especially considering, if I don't get Renegade to join the game, the seer will be killed off.

Interesting how im lost DENIED being networked with legionnaired in irc. They're already plotting against him. The way I see things happening: legionnaired goes tomorrow (or tonight...), im lost is set adrift and forced to contact Saltz or Quaunaut to maintain some kind of network, then he bites the dust one way or another. Humans are left with no psychic, and either no seer or a new seer, against 3 wolves and a psychopath. Can you say boned?

Day 3 - Oooh, down goes the psychopath. Tomorrow's going to be interesting, when only one person dies. And Legionnaired is surprisingly good at deductions: he has 2 out of the 3 wolves nailed. Problem is, of course, his support base is GONE (excpet for im lost), and the way he's been acting no one is guaranteed to believe him at all. The game is truly up for grabs right now; it all hinges on persuasion skills and trust, just like it should.

Oh dear, it seems Legionnaired actually made TOO good of a case against Quaunaut. So many people are saying, "This just looks too perfect to be real," when it actuality Legionnaired really DID nail Quaunaut as the wolf in his group. Oh snap, im lost has revealed that he is in fact the psychic. This announcement seems to turn enough people off of his and Quaunaut's votepiles onto Legionnaired (including a very slick move by Theslan). Legionnaired gets the boot, just like I predicted he would. Go me!

Night 4-
Unlike my prediction from Day 2, however, im lost is not boned, though most likely he's a dead man walking. He still got off his message of there being 3 wolves left, right as Theslan pm-ed me to ask if they could kill him before he got his report. Of course, im lost was just contacted by 2 "seers", one of which was undoubtedly Isamil, who chose to seer im lost as soon as night fell. Very nice play by the wolves; they KNEW im lost would be seered, and then contacted, so they contacted him with a fake seer as quickly as they could. Sowing confusion will buy time, time the wolves desperately need now; this game is now very simple: 11 humans (9 after tonight) including the seer and psychic, and 3 wolves. No psychopath (of course the players don't know that) means that the wolves have to hold out without a loss for 4 day/night cycles in order to win, which will be incredibly tough. I predict Quaunaut goes tomorrow; regardless of which seer he believes, im lost basically knows for a fact that Quaunaut was the wolf in his old group. I think at this point a human win is not only a possibility, it is most likely. Ironic; if the wolves hadn't killed Saltz on night 3, they'd still be in a good position to win this.

Um, im lost just pm-ed me to say one of the seers that had contacted him was a fake. I am confused. Who is this, why are you doing it? Are you a wolf puppet who KNOWS he's a wolf puppet, and is trying to avoid getting eaten while not steering the psychic wrong?

Okay, TheMuffinMan thinks Swiftspear was the real seer, so he's filled in as a fake seer. He's been "seering" people, and as soon as he seers them they die. Isamil is indeed the other seer that contacted im lost. TheMuffinMan tells his story as such: he told Pulse last night that he was the seer, and since he's not dead he's assuming that Pulse is a human. TheMuffinMan has no idea im lost is the psychic; he just contacted him and gauged his reaction. He thinks im lost is human. So much for a smart wolf plan...im lost is confused and frustrated, mainly because even if he chooses to trust either TheMuffinMan or Isamil, that says nothing about the other one being a wolf.

On a side note, im lost finally understands how crazy it is being the psychic, or any special role for that matter. Told

ya <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />

Day 4-
This day mostly consisted of everyone running around like chickens with their heads cut off. Gamesurge was down, I think the forums were down as well; there was basically no communication that I saw. People _were_ happy that there was only one killing. Good thing too; the number of humans left in this game is falling rapidly. Of course, they don't know if the psychopath was Legionnaired, SaltzBad, or brute_force. Everyone for some reason thinks that it was Legionnaired, most likely because he stirred up so much trouble. He really did act like Saltz from TWG V. Oh well, they'll find out in the post-game thread.

Night 5-
Finally! A wolf has been seered! And because last night Isamil seered im lost, there is a seer-psychic alliance. This game just went from being wolf-sided to human-sided, if only the other humans can believe im lost.

Day 5-
Theslan tries valiantly to defend himself, but there really is no defense except to accuse im lost, or to imply that im lost's seer is a wolf. In the first case, it's Theslan's word against im lost's (check story for that particular discussion), and in the second case, well, im lost will know and be able to warn the other humans if his seer is actually a wolf. So...there really is no reason _not_ to kill Theslan. One wolf down; the beginning of the end. There was much talk of seering Cyndane or EMP Demon, but that was all a distraction, because during...

Night 6-
they in fact seered yet another wolf: Quaunaut! Well done whoever thought that one up. It looked for certain that Quaunaut had escaped Legionnaired's accusations unscathed, but lo and behold someone actually went back in the thread and checked for suspicious activity.

[edit]
Anyone who wishes to apply for the next host position should email Freak at freak83 [AT] gmail [DOT] com with the following

Forum Name
Number of Players
Number of Wolves
Comments (Either "Standard Game" for seer, guardian, psychic and 3-4 wolves or your variation)
[/edit]

Renegade · June 2005

I'd just like to say, from an observer view point this was a fun game to watch. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' />

Cyndane · June 2005

I'd like to say I loved pwnzoring Demon even though there was no reason for it. Oh yes, and theslan... I also hate being left out of networks. :-)

Xentor · June 2005

So was I random, or was I actually considered a threat?

EDIT: Ohhh, haha! I was right from the start! I knew right away that Theslan was a wolf <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' />

im_lost · June 2005

Well, that was quite an exciting game, for me anyway. For me, the excitement started up during Day 2. I contaced Legionnaired anonymously through AIM, using the name twg6psychic. At first it was completely anonymous, just me saying, "Hi, I'm the psychic, three wolves left." After his effort to draw out a fake psychic, I decided to trust him, and I told him who I was. Legionnaired decides to set up a network, which I knew nothing about. On top of that, I didn't speak to any of the other people in this network at any point.

Day 3 begins, and chaos ensues. Legionnaired uses the worst logic I have ever seen, and still manages to pick two of the three wolves. The logic initially makes sense to me, and by the time I realize how silly it is, it's too late for me to change my vote. Gwahir really doesn't like what's happening, so he does a lot of digging. He talks with Legionnaired, with me, and with Deep Blue, and comes up with the log that eventually got posted. If Legionnaired had explained what his plan was, then I could have been better prepared. I was just as shocked as everyone else by what Legionnaired did, the only advantage I has was in knowing which facts were true and which parts were lies/exaggerations. End result, I really hoped to wait until the next day before revealing that I was the psychic. However, based on IRC conversations, I was clearly going to be lynched if I didn't say anything. I expected to die that night, since it didn't really matter if it was confirmed that I was the psychic. My only goal was to clear up the confusion that Legionnaired made, and to get one more psychic report out before dying.

Night 4 was very interesting. Isamil contacts me through IRC and tells me that he is the seer, and he just checked me. Wow, how excinting to have someone that actually trusts me. I was brought back to reality when I got the same message from TheMuffinMan a few minutes later. I didn't tell Isamil anything useful before hearing from TheMuffinMan, and I clearly didn't put much trust in either of them at this point. I announced in the IRC channel that there were two seers out there, because I wanted people to be careful with who they trusted.

Here's where the wolves have to be kicking themselves. After the whole ordeal with Legionnaired, I decided that I trusted Quaunaut (based on the logic I used in the thread). I typed up a long PM to send him, explaining everything I knew about the two "seers", because I didn't expect to live. When I tried to send it, I found out that his inbox was full. I was quite annoyed. Thank you Quaunaut for making a human win possible. I also decided to trust Gwahir (Legionnaired had trusted him, for whatever that was worth, Legionnaired was definitely not a wolf at that point, and I kind of trusted him on my own), so I sent him the information that was going to be sent to Quaunaut.

On to Day 4. I was quite shocked at how much everyone trusted me. The day was quite uneventful, otherwise.

Night 5, Isamil tells me that Theslan is a wolf. This gives me something useful to do when Day 5 begins, since a wolf is guaranteed to go down at this point, unless people decide to turn against me. Cyndane insists that EMP Demon is a wolf, but at the same time gives absolutely no reason for it. This draws suspicion, but not enough to pull people away from killing Theslan. TheMuffinMan puts in the instalynch vote, and Theslan turns out to be a wolf.

Night 6, Isamil (who I now trust) tells me that Quaunaut is a wolf. He also asks me who the fake seer was, and I told him that it was TheMuffinMan. I told TheMuffinMan that Quaunaut was the next wolf, and I told Mouse to trust Isamil, along with the fact that Quaunaut was the next wolf. I mentioned in the channel that Theslan was a wolf, and that people should trust Mouse if I died. I don't know if many people actually saw that though. Then I died, and the excitement ended for me. Honestly, that was the absolute worst time to kill me. At that point, the best chance was to leave me alive and question why I was still alive, and try to get people to vote for me.

Now for some nitpicky rules questions. The first one is about using instant messenger to communicate anonymously with people. The trouble I see is that when you die, you have to stop talking to them. However, that by itself is enough to tell them who they were talking to, or at least narrow it down quite a bit. Is that an issue?

The second one is with the rule of imitating other players. If you contact someone anonymously, are you not allowed to say later on that you are someone other than who you really are? It seems to me that since the contact is anonymous to begin with, people should be suspicious of anything you say, including when you identify yourself. Imitating a player isn't possible on the forum or on IRC, so instant messenger is about all that's left. Clearly, when I got a message from nsGwahir, it had to be Gwahir, because that would clearly be breaking the rule.

Neither of these mattered for this game, but I could easily see it being important in the future.

Legionnaired · June 2005

And you aaaaallllllll thought I was crazy...

im_lost · June 2005

Well, you were. You were completely right about Quaunaut, but your logic against Theslan was the same as your logic against Petco, meaning not very good. Couldn't you at least have told me what you were planning before being so bold? I'm assuming you trusted me at that point.

Legionnaired · June 2005

I did trust you, but if I told you, you'd be in on it and support me.

There was no middle ground once I laid it all out, people were either going to love me or hate me. You supporting me would only have drawn suspicion to you if things went South, and I didn't want to take the Psychic down with me if I screwed up.

And Petco was a bit of a stretch, but I was bloody positive about the other two. Probably should have thought a little more before I pointed the finger at him.

Isamil · June 2005

I didn't spend much time on making this but uh, my log.

1. TheMuffinMan- 1 game
2. Comprox- Human 2nd
3. EMP Demon- 0 games
4. im lost- 4 games
5. Swiftspear-Dead Night 1
6. CMEast- 0 games
7. brute force- 2 games
8. Theslan- 0 games
9. Petco- 2 games
10. Xentor- Dead Night 2
11. Snidely- Dead Night 1
12. Breakthrough- 0 games
13. Mouse- 1 game
14. Pulse- 1 game
15. Cyndane- 0 games
16. Legionnaired- 0 games
17. Gwahir- 1 game
18. Quaunaut- 2 games
19. Mantrid- Me
20. SaltzBad- 2 games
21. ZeroByte- 2 games
22. Cheetah- Dead Night 2
23. Condizzle- Human, 1st

Day 1
Crap, Condizzle is getting a lot of votes for him. Just my luck that my first confirmed human may be killed off.

18 hours left, and Condizzle is still the most voted for. **** **** ****!!

They lynched him. I'm back to square one, and I've essientally wasted a night.
end Mantrid
____________________________________________________________________
start Isamil //awesome line

Well, it might be helpful to look for people overly accusive of the confirmed humans(before they died)

" Well, I'm voting for Comprox then, because I have to vote for someone. I'd rather just vote for someone randomly then, and who has no votes - Comprox, this isn't anything personal. I have absolutely no reasoning behind this, other than the fact that I have to vote for someone, and your name is the first that came up (with no votes). If it makes any difference to who will get lynched, I will change my vote to someone else with no votes (depending on the situation).

Remember - my vote is based on a random pick. I would vote for nobody if I had the chance.
"-breakthrough

Really, really defensive as he votes.

First of all, he's hopping on a bandwagon. Second of all, this post just seems awfully accusive. He says that TheMuffinMan's strategy is a ploy to get the pressure off of the wolves, and also says that Petco could be a wolf since he voted afterwards. Then this line: "It makes sense, as I am an experianced player." ... OK, I understand that experienced players might have it easier to spot various ploys than a newbie could, however this reasoning seems kinda stupid. It's sort of like someone saying "What I just said makes sense because I'm smart."
I might change this later if anything comes up, but I'm pretty sure I'll be keeping it on Condizzle.-brute force

brute force's post is rather accusive

"Hmm, certainly didn't expect other people to also vote for Condizzle, at least not two."-brute force
defending himself

" Comprox is going to have my vote again. "Vibes" aren't good evidence to vote on IMHO... If you didn't want a phantom vote, why not someone without any votes? It seems as though you've started up a bandwagon..."-breakthrough
I used "vibes" in my first game and knew every wolf by day 2-3

Sky randomed the seer for night 3 on Mouse. He's human, and it's someone I know.
Told mouse, he seems to believe me

im lost says he's the psychic and he's about to die. Can't let that happen, so Legion will go.
Seered im lost, human. Talking to him now.

Still sucpisous of breakthrough, brute force maybe...
im lost says another seer contacted him a bit after I did.

lol

<im_lost> why does the game have to be so complicated?
<im_lost> before last night (when I completely reread the thread) i had ruled out quaunaut as a possible wolf
<im_lost> i tried sending him a pm earlier on, telling him who the two seers were that contacted me, and explaining all of that situation. luckily his pm inbox was full.

im lost says the other seer was TheMuffinMan
seered themuffinman-human-talking to him now
themuffinman dies, whats up with people who are seered dieing?
cyndane insists EMP Demon is a wolf, I'l vote for him. I get at least 1 other seer chance tonight, but I'm low on time here
seered breakthrough, as suspected he's a wolf-the last wolf
YAY!!!! I shouldn't have much problem convincing people, hope I don't die the last night...
Humans win

Petco · June 2005

Well that was fun, it was my first game just being a plain human. Since gamesurge was down till 2 game days before I died, I didn't go on IRC much. The other 2 games I was seer, but this game I basicly did nothing but random votes <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /> . 6th human win in a row <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /> . I wonder what would have happened if Quaunaut's inbox wasn't full, and a little off topic but, wow in TWG 1, I was killed just before I was about to reveal who the wolves are and that I am a seer, never noticed.

Also if there is another TWG game going, I think I may want to host, but I'm not sure. I have part of the begin story saved, and roles, and whatever hosts do. I was thinking about the next game after coming up with a few ideas, but I'm not sure.

im_lost · June 2005

You know how the wolves will win? SaltzBad being the real seer. No one will believe him, and he will probably get lynched by the people he trusts.

I can't believe we have had 6 games without the wolves trying any fake roles.

Soul_Rider · June 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (im lost @ Jun 23 2005, 07:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I can't believe we have had 6 games without the wolves trying any fake roles.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
And yet the last 2 have had fake seer ploys by Humans!!

BTW i'm_lost, How do you feel now you have been a special role? Is it a lot more stressful than being a vanilla human? Knowing tha the humans are actually depending on you to win. And when all the people are saying, i wish the psychic would say something, and you have to bite your tongue because you can't trust them.

Mouse · June 2005

Considering how loud I was in my last TWG, I'm suprised no-one questioned how quiet I was this time.

Breakthrough · June 2005

Bleh, I knew things were going downhill after Quaunut was lynched...

After Isamil voted for me (which is who I was supposed to kill, but the thought slipped my mind), I knew it was over.

im_lost · June 2005

It certainly is a lot more stressful, though not the whole time. At first, I just hoped things would fall into place, I didn't have much of a plan. Legionnaired made things simple by presenting an opportunity to create a network. Once he made his big post, I had to be more alert. Thanks to Gwahir, the game became very stressful for me for a little while, and a lot of the stress went away after I was forced to reveal that I was the psychic. Getting contacted by two seers didn't help with stress at all, but after one of them revealed that they were fake and the other one gave a way to prove that they were the seer, I was able to sit back and let things fall into place on their own.

So, it was certainly more stressful, but it was also a lot more fun than the cluelessness that I had to deal with in the previous games.

Crispy · June 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mouse @ Jun 23 2005, 04:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Considering how loud I was in my last TWG, I'm suprised no-one questioned how quiet I was this time. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
I would have if I'd been playing... but meh

Very interesting round, but imo the inactivity and changing seers was probably detrimental to the game. Here's something that I would have posted just after Legionnaired's faux-pas:

<<< TheMuffinMan - Jun 7 2005, 04:51 AM: <span style='color:orange'>At the moment, i don't trust either of you. What Legion says makes sense, but it sounds way too convenient.

First of all, the network went up and then down very quickly. To me, that instantly sets off red flags. It could just be very lucky, but i doubt it. Your network expands and then contacts, killing two humans (Probably, anyway) and catching a third in a trap (again, probably).

As for comprox being voted off, he was suspected by a hell of a lot of people, not all of whom voted for him. He also had close ties with a few select people here, people who will probably end up voting for Quaunaut.

Saltzbad puzzles me, as if i was a wolf then i would have killed him off on the first night. Perhaps they didn't want a botched kill, or perhaps he was a wolf himself. Either way, he is dead now. It feels to me like you are just using him to make your network sound larger than it actually was. A dead man can't speak, after all.

If Quanaut is indeed a human, then the wolves are playing with a serious risk here. I've really been in the dark this game, and it would be brilliant if the seer/psychic could contact me (anonymously, obviously). I don't put much stock in that kind of contact, but i suppose that any information is good information, and would do a lot to validate legion's story. As it is, i am going to have to vote for Legionnaired. We are still quite a ways off an instalynch, so you're not in too much danger. </span>

Legionnaired: <span style='color:green'>My only question: When was the last time that a wolf called this much attention to himself?</span> >>>

Me: <span style='color:white'>When he was a psychopath?

To me it makes a lot of sense to create a network when you're the psychopath, because you need to find out who are Humans and who are Wolves. If Leg sets up a network that successfully finds a reasonable amount of Humans, and he can trust the information given, he can make sure he doesn't trip up killing a wolf.

Now he asks himself, how does he gain people's trust? He creates a seer ploy to draw in the Humans. Then again he could just have been very lucky in having been contacted by the seer straight off. In either case, if Legionnaired is the psychopath, he's probably realised that he's brought far too much attention on himself.

To draw the heat away from him (or possibly because his network has pointed to Quan, TheSlan and Petco being wolves), he starts a bandwagon on them, but leads the vote on Quan. He has instilled fear in the Humans by outing who he thinks are the wolves. By starting the vote on Quan, he's playing on this fear by insinuating that to be certain the Humans should all vote for the same suspect wolf.
But this isn't enough, so he plays the double bluff: "When was the last time that a wolf called this much attention to himself?"

What's even more interesting is how astute this assumption was, with Petco and TheSlan reacting instantly to vote against off Quanaut. It seems to me that the wolves are trying to create confusion here, but when TheSlan saw what Petco had done he thought it might put him in danger of an instalynch, so moved his own vote with a reasonable explanation.

---

There is another possibility: Legionnaired is the seer.

He falsifies the logs with Deep Blue to setup a network, and knowing that this'll bring heat from suspicious minds and the wolves, warns that if he dies the network will already be in place and the wolves will be out in the open. That action alone would have taken care of the 'unsure' voters, so now all he has to do is take care of the suspicious minds. He does this by transferring the votes onto the 'wolves' Quan, TheSlan and Petco (but leads the assault on Quan), although he may have already deduced through his clairvoyance that they are both wolves.

---

For whatever the reason is, Legionnaired had been extremely defensive, spending a good 30mins+ rereading attacks and past posts to try and clear his name.

Very. Interesting. Stuff.</span>

Perhaps I gave Leg too much credit.

For my first spectated TWG it was pretty interesting. I'll be looking out for the next one.

im_lost · June 2005

There were too many people that were inactive to really notice. Two of the wolves managed to get phantom votes, plus a human, and you would have gotten one if MuffinMan hadn't put in the instalynch vote. I guess this shows that the level of activity can't be used to determine if someone is a wolf or not.

lolfighter · June 2005

So, what about next game? I'm trying to decide whether I want to apply for hosting again.

Breakthrough · June 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (lolfighter @ Jun 23 2005, 05:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> So, what about next game? I'm trying to decide whether I want to apply for hosting again.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Next game, we have to improve communication, and everyone needs to idle IRC much more...

Soul_Rider · June 2005

I have a great idea for hosting, but alas not the time to host. I will definitely be looking to play in the next TWG, as long as i can remember the sign-ups aren't in this forum but are in the off-topic forum!!!

I missed the last lot sitting in the wrong forum!!

lolfighter · June 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Breakthrough @ Jun 23 2005, 01:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Next game, we have to improve communication, and everyone needs to idle IRC much more...  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
I have a feeling that far more people were online than you could see, just on the other side of a netsplit...

Byeka · June 2005

Very nice game. Couple of things now.

1. Sky, can you please make an EXTREMELY condensed version of the game into one short paragraph for me?

2. Anyone who wishes to apply for the next host position should email me at freak83 AT gmail DOT com with the following

Forum Name
Number of Players
Number of Wolves
Comments (Either "Standard Game" for seer, guardian, psychic and 3-4 wolves or your variation)

Sky, can you put that in the first post too?

Theslan · June 2005

My comments on the game:

First of all, one of my major complaints was that Isamil was seer... because it was really impossible to tell who it was. With him coming in during the middle, it was like a clean slate for him, with connections already (regardless if those connections were lynch/killed).

Xentor, I was tipped off that you were seer, and you have seered me on the first night, confirming I was a wolf. That is why we got rid of you.

My major flaw was that I did not get rid of im_lost after getting rid of Gwahir (in place of Petco). I knew there was a very very slim chance that the seer was still alive, and I heard offhand that im lost happened to be in contact with the seer. Still, I didn't follow through and figure it out.

And Quanaunt... clean your inbox. Im lost was trying to send you PMs about who the seers were (there were two during this point), but your PM box was full.

Oh, and Breakthrough? Why didn't you wolf Isamil instead of Zerobyte? Or Muffinman?

Soul_Rider · June 2005

I would just like to say that these games seem to be getting better and better. I don't have time available to host a game, although i want to be playing in the next one, so i will post an idea for a game here and if anyone wants to take it forward and use it they can. Note this isn't a story idea but a player idea...

Humans - 13 (Unlucky for some!!!)

Human Roles - 3

Seer
Pyschic
Guardian

Wolves - 5

Other roles

Wizard - 1

The wizards role is to aid the wolves. He casts a spell on one person each night searching for the Seer's magic. If the person is not the seer, he receives the message - this person has no magic, if they are he is told they possess magic. He cannot find out who is a human and who is a wolf, only if someone has the seer magic.

The wizard doesn't know who the wolves are, and the wolves don't know who the wizard is. So they need to try and link up with each other. Game is over when the wolves are dead, or the humans are dead. The wizard can be alive in each scenario and the game will end. He doesn't class as a human or a wolf. When he is seered he will show up as a human. This adds a little bit of doubt to the human security in the network.

Total number of players - 22

TheMuffinMan · June 2005

First off, Saltzbad is one sly bastard. I'll definitely try harder to be less trustful in the next game.

I didn't keep a log this game, but i will try to shed some light on my somewhat dodgy actions:

Saltzbad pms me saying that the seer is dead, and i don't really believe him. However, it was a very dangerous move by him (I could have used it as a pretty nice excuse to have him lynched later in the game), and i quickly sway. We come along to the idea of a human started fake seer network, and i did not see the harm in at least trying it.

If he was telling the truth, then the game looked well and truly over. I reasoned that if a wolf was contacted by a fake seer (he would know that he is fake, of course), then he would want to use that to his advantage. With any luck, this would have drawn up at least some red flags. It also gave the opportunity to gauge peoples reactions, although it didn't do much good. Lastly, if a wolf was to figure out by second hand accounts that i was the 'seer', it may have helped us if i died (the wolves would think that the seer was dead). My logic was a little flawed, but it seemed like a nice idea at the time.

On the other hand, saltz could have been lying. I could see that he could do some damage to the humans there, which is why i included Saltzbad in my 'network'. By the time i 'seered' im lost, if Saltzbad had still been alive, he would have been in a very incrimating position. If it had gotten any bigger than it did, it could have well damaged the humans. Of course, i am lucky that it never went further than chatting to a few people, otherwise saltz could have killed me later on in the game, causing even more confusion among the people who i 'seered'.

Either way, it was a bit of a laugh <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' />

Legion: You were just too forceful with your ideas, unfortunately. Nice job on getting it all right, but it wasn't much of a surprise when no one believed you. Sorry about that, but from my (and many others) point of view it all looked like a set up.

Isamil · June 2005

All the people Mantrid seered were already dead so I didn't have any connections. I was very suprised to get a role myself though, and I suppose it would give me a bit of an advantage.

CMEast · June 2005

Meh, well I got played <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' />

Nearer the end it was better I think, the start was too chaotic to pick out any patterns (for me at least) of behaviour that guarenteed wolf or role. Still, glad I took part and I hope to be in the next one too.

Btw, declaring "I am human" isn't a suspicious statement, it's a nonsense statement. It means absolutely nothing because anyone and everyone had a good reason to say it. Reasons for me to say it? Well 1) I found it amusing and 2) because it makes me look silly=less dangerous=reduced chance of being wolfed. That's why I didn't go for breakthrough when it looked like EMP was going out (although now I know Isamil was the seer so I probably could have done it).

One thing I will say, the game designs seem to be more and more wolf orientated but everyone seems to forget that the last two games have been lucky for the humans. Be careful the balance isn't so tipped that its a guarenteed wolf win because, unlike a human win, it will just drag on. At least when humans have a good chance of winning then a) the games cycle through faster so its better for the dead people and b) it really means something when the wolves eventually win.

Good game Sky, well written, well designed and well hosted.

Breakthrough · June 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Theslan @ Jun 23 2005, 10:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Oh, and Breakthrough? Why didn't you wolf Isamil instead of Zerobyte? Or Muffinman?  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
I really don't know anymore - sometimes you trust your gut, and it kills you... <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' />

I remember me and Theslan were trying to get CMEast to believe that EMPDemon, Legion, and Saltz were all wolves, bandwagoning on the same people for two rounds... Worked!

CMEast · June 2005

I had my suspicions about EMP and legionaired was a bit dodgy... never suspected Saltz though, managed to suspect the two humans and ignore the psycho...

All I can say is <i>well that's not good...</i>

Theslan · June 2005

I might as well post my idea on here. I've already emailed freak83 about it:

Number of players: 24 (18)

1 seer (with the ability to protect one person from conversion)
1 psychic

3 wolves. (2 wolves for 18 players)
1 chances to convert a normal human to wolf. (1 chance with 18 players)

It works like this: one night, instead of killing someone the wolves gain one normal human to their side. It has to be a normal human. It fails if the wolves targetted a special role. It also fails if the wolves target a seer-protected target.

-Seer gets to protect one person per night from becoming a wolf. This way, the seer network doesn't collapse completely when the wolves do get one to their side.
-If the seer manages to target the same person that the wolves convert that night, the target would be a wolf, not a human.
-There will be no announcement of whether the conversion succeeds or fails. However, it's quite evident someone changed the other side since there is no killing that night.

Originally, I'll like to do it for 24 players, but I can do it for 18 players, due to balancing issues.

EDIT: Freak83, I know I send you 2 wolves with 2 conversion in email. I like to change that to 3 wolves and 1 conversion after thinking some more on its balance.

Byeka · June 2005

Was actually going to email you back about that with that same suggestion.