I mean, to be honest I could somewhat understand any of this if we were playing for prizes or money. But in a free online league who in their right mind would take a forfeit win for the championship?....
The difference between each team's average ping within the agreed upon server can be no greater than 100 ms. Pings must be confirmed in the server, not through pinging tools such as GameSpy or HLSW. Both teams should check their pings in the opposing teams server to verify they are playable. Teams should also check playability. This means no excessive packet loss, choke, or ping spikes. <u>If a server is unsuitable for match play, a replacement must be found. If an objection is made prior to the half commencing and the server is deemed unplayable by a CAL admin, then a new server must be found.</u> This rule cannot be invoked after play has commenced. When one team deems a server to be unplayable, that team must use the same number of players, as well as the exact same players, that were within the server in question once an alternate server is chosen. The ping rule can, and should, be used if it is desired by at least one of the competing teams. If both teams agree, this rule can be waived. This rule does not apply if either team does not reside in North America.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It wouldn't have been a reschedule to move to LoC's server, I don't get why that would have caused exi to have forfeited the half. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It's the next line which is open to interpretation, Router Box.
<u>This rule cannot be invoked after play has commenced.</u>
To me, that's probably why Exi. was forced to forfeit the marine side as well. Play could mean... the whole game, round, map, etc... and some people took it to mean map.
My question is towards Exigent on a matter of curiousity: if the pings were really bad when you were playing on aliens, did you start the game already on marine side? Or the game when Exigent was marine never started, with exigent asking for a server switch, which CAL and terror both refused in their own ways and asked for a 2-0 lead even though the second round never started?
Yes, essentially to play Terror on a new server we needed to give them a free second half win which was never played. We would have "thrown" our Marine half.
Edit: By the way you are all well on the way to getting this locked... I would appreciate it if mods could just clean rather than lock and forget.
<!--QuoteBegin-Theslan+Jun 28 2005, 10:06 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Theslan @ Jun 28 2005, 10:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Or the game when Exigent was marine never started, with exigent asking for a server switch, which CAL and terror both refused in their own ways and asked for a 2-0 lead even though the second round never started? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That's exactly what happened.
We played our marine half on origin later on LoC's server with no lag, and we won it.
The difference between each team's average ping within the agreed upon server can be no greater than 100 ms. Pings must be confirmed in the server, not through pinging tools such as GameSpy or HLSW. Both teams should check their pings in the opposing teams server to verify they are playable. Teams should also check playability. This means no excessive packet loss, choke, or ping spikes. <u>If a server is unsuitable for match play, a replacement must be found. If an objection is made prior to the half commencing and the server is deemed unplayable by a CAL admin, then a new server must be found.</u> This rule cannot be invoked after play has commenced. When one team deems a server to be unplayable, that team must use the same number of players, as well as the exact same players, that were within the server in question once an alternate server is chosen. The ping rule can, and should, be used if it is desired by at least one of the competing teams. If both teams agree, this rule can be waived. This rule does not apply if either team does not reside in North America.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It wouldn't have been a reschedule to move to LoC's server, I don't get why that would have caused exi to have forfeited the half. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's the next line which is open to interpretation, Router Box.
<u>This rule cannot be invoked after play has commenced.</u>
To me, that's probably why Exi. was forced to forfeit the marine side as well. Play could mean... the whole game, round, map, etc... and some people took it to mean map.
My question is towards Exigent on a matter of curiousity: if the pings were really bad when you were playing on aliens, did you start the game already on marine side? Or the game when Exigent was marine never started, with exigent asking for a server switch, which CAL and terror both refused in their own ways and asked for a 2-0 lead even though the second round never started? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No, play had not commenced. They had played the first half but the second half had not started.
They objected before the half began in accordance with this rule.
Aye, Router box, but is play considered playing a map, or playing a round? For all we know, CAL could interpretted play to mean a map and in that case, the play did commense due to exigent playing aliens last round. Switching sides is just a break.
While I agree with you, Router Box, this rule is open to interpretation. It doesn't say specifically what play pertains to, and therefore can be used to mean the whole map, both alien and marine round.
<!--QuoteBegin-Theslan+Jun 28 2005, 10:31 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Theslan @ Jun 28 2005, 10:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Aye, Router box, but is play considered playing a map, or playing a round? For all we know, CAL could interpretted play to mean a map and in that case, the play did commense due to exigent playing aliens last round. Switching sides is just a break.
While I agree with you, Router Box, this rule is open to interpretation. It doesn't say specifically what play pertains to, and therefore can be used to mean the whole map, both alien and marine round. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> CAL has *always* defined "play" as being in the middle of a round, not a map.
Ah, sorry for the confusion then. As you can tell, I'm not exactly well verse in the competitive scene. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Hey exi, now you know it feels to get the bottom heel of the CAL admins. Back in #cri, our team had players banned (and re-banned), we were moved down to omega, (we killed a team after playing them) and all of this was from poor admining.
I guess I'm not surprised by any of this because I never expected anything more of the CAL admins. Honestly, Othell was at least someone, who abielt a bit lazy, could a make desicions. Now we plauged by an admin, Hsu, who can't make descions, yet he sure get those auto-schedules up.
For such easy job, you'd think people could admin NS. But, I guess when your first season has a crappy admin to begain, they will continue to pick only crappy admins. Usually I don't get angry over anything, but those finals took the cake.
Exigent, why did you quit the league? Even with all the crap #cri used to take back in the day we never became quitters. I thought you guys were better than that.
..... Where is Cri now? Not to mention you thrived off all of the **** you took. All of you enjoyed it. This is a bit different situation than having a cheater banned. Also, by quitting we aren't backing out of anything, I think you are really missing the point. We are more than willing to play this match, we will just not participate in such a corrupt division of CAL with such pathetic administration. Playing through another season for another title is not something we are looking to do at this point.
[21:42] <i5^[ns]elfkiller> Hey Josh, nsbox is playing tanith, end of story kthx [21:42] <CAL-ns|Joshua> really? [21:42] <i5^[ns]elfkiller> Are you seriously not going to let us pick tanith? [21:43] <CAL-ns|Joshua> yes [21:43] <i5^[ns]elfkiller> even though Hsu put it on the cal page and said nothing about it [21:43] <CAL-ns|Joshua> it's common sense
see that? "it's common sense." of COURSE you cant choose the tiebreaker maps for your map choice in the finals. oh wait, you WERE allowed, and a cal admin was horribly horribly wrong, screwing over TMM in the process.
compare with the following, following a convo with brett regarding my suspension from cal for "bad irc sportsmanship," aka spamming #nsradio because they did a really crappy shoutcast and i was telling them how crappy it was.
[21:49] <[RiotingNerd]> please show me the rule i violated [21:50] <CAL-ns|Brett> how about common sense?
Anyone else see a common link?
[edit] ONOS POSTING PM LOGS B& FROM CAL!!! ps guys i see a lot of slander going on on this here intarweb forum i think you will all be banned from cal for bad e-sportsmanship
What you see as a "pathetic administration" causing you to quit never caused us to quit.
#cri eventually fell apart (btw, it's still an older clan than exigent - by maybe 1 month now? last another month and you beat us (looks like you won't beat us though since you quit NS)) due to inactivity. Inactivity will kill all clans, eventually.
But we didn't fall apart to crappy admining. I hope you realize I'm talking about Exigent quitting NS, I'm not angry at them or anything for the finals match, nor do I consider them an inferior team to Terror because of what happened. But you guys quitting was weak.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
Coincidentally this is almost exactly what happened in the ClanBase Opencup Fall 2003 in which I took over as supervisor mid-season. Breaking Point were scheduled to play Torment, the leading European team at the time, in the semi-finals. Unfortunately for Torment, they'd lost several players to inactivity and the rosters were locked for the rest of the season, leaving them without enough players to play the match. Over Breaking Point's objections (It was quite obvious that they really wanted the forfeit win) I decided to manually add some of the new Torment players to their ClanBase roster, making sure that they would be able to play the match. Although I misread a certain point in the rules and thought I'd found a loophole that would allow me to add players to their roster, I still would've added the new players to Torment's roster. I decided that fair play and sportsmanship was more important than following the rules strictly in this case, which led to the match being played. Torment had no problems dominating the match itself, winning 4-0.
This wasn't the end of it, unfortunately, as Breaking Point filed a complaint with the head admins of ClanBase, who quickly informed me that the loophole in the rules that I thought I'd found was in fact not a loophole, and just me misreading the rules. Although the result was accepted after lengthy discussion, due to it already being played, I was p-r-e-t-t-y clearly adviced that should this happen again I wouldn't continue as supervisor for much longer. I pretty much lost my interest in admining at this point, and left the league after the final had been played.
Don't be so quick to jump on the admins, as the rulesets in most professional or semi-professional competitions are very rigid, almost to the point of being set in stone, and the head admins of these competitions tend to make sure that they're enforced as written. There is very little specific admins can do with that, unless something is different in CAL for example.
I'm disappointed with Terror though, I'd expected more of them than this crap.
UGL is now acccepting applications for teams and Head Admins. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Zephor+Jun 28 2005, 12:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zephor @ Jun 28 2005, 12:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I hope you enjoy your suspension taylor.
As for the issue. You play in CAL. If you dont agree with the rules or how the CAL admin carries out the rules, you're free to join another league. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> A perfect example of "I'm wrong, but I don't want to admit it, and to save face, I'm going to ban a few people and throw this dust under the rug."
<!--QuoteBegin-Zephor+Jun 28 2005, 11:13 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zephor @ Jun 28 2005, 11:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I hope you enjoy your suspension taylor.
As for the issue. You play in CAL. If you dont agree with the rules or how the CAL admin carries out the rules, you're free to join another league. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Cal-NS gestapo is in full force... EIN VOLK, EIN REICH, EIN FUHRER
<!--QuoteBegin-JmmsbndZeroZeroSeven+Jun 28 2005, 12:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JmmsbndZeroZeroSeven @ Jun 28 2005, 12:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> A perfect example of "I'm wrong, but I don't want to admit it, and to save face, I'm going to ban a few people and throw this dust under the rug." <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Was it you or deimos who said he was the best thing ever. Deimos I think.
<!--QuoteBegin-pinkeye+Jun 28 2005, 12:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (pinkeye @ Jun 28 2005, 12:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Zephor+Jun 28 2005, 11:13 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zephor @ Jun 28 2005, 11:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I hope you enjoy your suspension taylor.
As for the issue. You play in CAL. If you dont agree with the rules or how the CAL admin carries out the rules, you're free to join another league. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Cal-NS gestapo is in full force... EIN VOLK, EIN REICH, EIN FUHRER <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> first they came for the jews but i said nothing for i was not a jew
As for the issue. You play in CAL. If you dont agree with the rules or how the CAL admin carries out the rules, you're free to join another league. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Cal-NS gestapo is in full force... EIN VOLK, EIN REICH, EIN FUHRER <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> first they came for the jews but i said nothing for i was not a jew <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> lol u said jew
<!--QuoteBegin-joee+Jun 28 2005, 12:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (joee @ Jun 28 2005, 12:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> first they came for <b>photek</b> but i said nothing for i was not <b>photek</b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Fixed.
oh dear god what have i done <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I miss you nerdy! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-AngelOfMusic+Jun 28 2005, 12:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AngelOfMusic @ Jun 28 2005, 12:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-JmmsbndZeroZeroSeven+Jun 28 2005, 12:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JmmsbndZeroZeroSeven @ Jun 28 2005, 12:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> A perfect example of "I'm wrong, but I don't want to admit it, and to save face, I'm going to ban a few people and throw this dust under the rug." <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Was it you or deimos who said he was the best thing ever. Deimos I think. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It was Ampednews...
oh dear god what have i done <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I miss you nerdy! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> i miss you too salt+pepper
I yam what I yam, and that's ALL that I yam. Do I hear a BooYeah ?!?!? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
only if youre the one saying it <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
The difference between each team's average ping within the agreed upon server can be no greater than 100 ms. Pings must be confirmed in the server, not through pinging tools such as GameSpy or HLSW. Both teams should check their pings in the opposing teams server to verify they are playable. Teams should also check playability. This means no excessive packet loss, choke, or ping spikes. <u>If a server is unsuitable for match play, a replacement must be found. If an objection is made prior to the half commencing and the server is deemed unplayable by a CAL admin, then a new server must be found.</u> This rule cannot be invoked after play has commenced. When one team deems a server to be unplayable, that team must use the same number of players, as well as the exact same players, that were within the server in question once an alternate server is chosen. The ping rule can, and should, be used if it is desired by at least one of the competing teams. If both teams agree, this rule can be waived. This rule does not apply if either team does not reside in North America.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It wouldn't have been a reschedule to move to LoC's server, I don't get why that would have caused exi to have forfeited the half. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's the next line which is open to interpretation, Router Box.
<u>This rule cannot be invoked after play has commenced.</u>
To me, that's probably why Exi. was forced to forfeit the marine side as well. Play could mean... the whole game, round, map, etc... and some people took it to mean map.
My question is towards Exigent on a matter of curiousity: if the pings were really bad when you were playing on aliens, did you start the game already on marine side? Or the game when Exigent was marine never started, with exigent asking for a server switch, which CAL and terror both refused in their own ways and asked for a 2-0 lead even though the second round never started?
Edit: By the way you are all well on the way to getting this locked... I would appreciate it if mods could just clean rather than lock and forget.
That's exactly what happened.
We played our marine half on origin later on LoC's server with no lag, and we won it.
The difference between each team's average ping within the agreed upon server can be no greater than 100 ms. Pings must be confirmed in the server, not through pinging tools such as GameSpy or HLSW. Both teams should check their pings in the opposing teams server to verify they are playable. Teams should also check playability. This means no excessive packet loss, choke, or ping spikes. <u>If a server is unsuitable for match play, a replacement must be found. If an objection is made prior to the half commencing and the server is deemed unplayable by a CAL admin, then a new server must be found.</u> This rule cannot be invoked after play has commenced. When one team deems a server to be unplayable, that team must use the same number of players, as well as the exact same players, that were within the server in question once an alternate server is chosen. The ping rule can, and should, be used if it is desired by at least one of the competing teams. If both teams agree, this rule can be waived. This rule does not apply if either team does not reside in North America.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It wouldn't have been a reschedule to move to LoC's server, I don't get why that would have caused exi to have forfeited the half. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's the next line which is open to interpretation, Router Box.
<u>This rule cannot be invoked after play has commenced.</u>
To me, that's probably why Exi. was forced to forfeit the marine side as well. Play could mean... the whole game, round, map, etc... and some people took it to mean map.
My question is towards Exigent on a matter of curiousity: if the pings were really bad when you were playing on aliens, did you start the game already on marine side? Or the game when Exigent was marine never started, with exigent asking for a server switch, which CAL and terror both refused in their own ways and asked for a 2-0 lead even though the second round never started? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, play had not commenced. They had played the first half but the second half had not started.
They objected before the half began in accordance with this rule.
While I agree with you, Router Box, this rule is open to interpretation. It doesn't say specifically what play pertains to, and therefore can be used to mean the whole map, both alien and marine round.
While I agree with you, Router Box, this rule is open to interpretation. It doesn't say specifically what play pertains to, and therefore can be used to mean the whole map, both alien and marine round. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
CAL has *always* defined "play" as being in the middle of a round, not a map.
I guess I'm not surprised by any of this because I never expected anything more of the CAL admins. Honestly, Othell was at least someone, who abielt a bit lazy, could a make desicions. Now we plauged by an admin, Hsu, who can't make descions, yet he sure get those auto-schedules up.
For such easy job, you'd think people could admin NS. But, I guess when your first season has a crappy admin to begain, they will continue to pick only crappy admins. Usually I don't get angry over anything, but those finals took the cake.
Exigent, why did you quit the league? Even with all the crap #cri used to take back in the day we never became quitters. I thought you guys were better than that.
[21:42] <i5^[ns]elfkiller> Hey Josh, nsbox is playing tanith, end of story kthx
[21:42] <CAL-ns|Joshua> really?
[21:42] <i5^[ns]elfkiller> Are you seriously not going to let us pick tanith?
[21:43] <CAL-ns|Joshua> yes
[21:43] <i5^[ns]elfkiller> even though Hsu put it on the cal page and said nothing about it
[21:43] <CAL-ns|Joshua> it's common sense
see that? "it's common sense." of COURSE you cant choose the tiebreaker maps for your map choice in the finals. oh wait, you WERE allowed, and a cal admin was horribly horribly wrong, screwing over TMM in the process.
compare with the following, following a convo with brett regarding my suspension from cal for "bad irc sportsmanship," aka spamming #nsradio because they did a really crappy shoutcast and i was telling them how crappy it was.
[21:49] <[RiotingNerd]> please show me the rule i violated
[21:50] <CAL-ns|Brett> how about common sense?
Anyone else see a common link?
[edit] ONOS POSTING PM LOGS B& FROM CAL!!! ps guys i see a lot of slander going on on this here intarweb forum i think you will all be banned from cal for bad e-sportsmanship
[edit2] <span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>gg cal</span>
#cri eventually fell apart (btw, it's still an older clan than exigent - by maybe 1 month now? last another month and you beat us (looks like you won't beat us though since you quit NS)) due to inactivity. Inactivity will kill all clans, eventually.
But we didn't fall apart to crappy admining. I hope you realize I'm talking about Exigent quitting NS, I'm not angry at them or anything for the finals match, nor do I consider them an inferior team to Terror because of what happened. But you guys quitting was weak.
<a href='http://exigent.ytmnd.com/' target='_blank'>http://exigent.ytmnd.com/</a>
This wasn't the end of it, unfortunately, as Breaking Point filed a complaint with the head admins of ClanBase, who quickly informed me that the loophole in the rules that I thought I'd found was in fact not a loophole, and just me misreading the rules. Although the result was accepted after lengthy discussion, due to it already being played, I was p-r-e-t-t-y clearly adviced that should this happen again I wouldn't continue as supervisor for much longer. I pretty much lost my interest in admining at this point, and left the league after the final had been played.
Don't be so quick to jump on the admins, as the rulesets in most professional or semi-professional competitions are very rigid, almost to the point of being set in stone, and the head admins of these competitions tend to make sure that they're enforced as written. There is very little specific admins can do with that, unless something is different in CAL for example.
I'm disappointed with Terror though, I'd expected more of them than this crap.
As for the issue. You play in CAL. If you dont agree with the rules or how the CAL admin carries out the rules, you're free to join another league.
As for the issue. You play in CAL. If you dont agree with the rules or how the CAL admin carries out the rules, you're free to join another league. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A perfect example of "I'm wrong, but I don't want to admit it, and to save face, I'm going to ban a few people and throw this dust under the rug."
As for the issue. You play in CAL. If you dont agree with the rules or how the CAL admin carries out the rules, you're free to join another league. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Cal-NS gestapo is in full force... EIN VOLK, EIN REICH, EIN FUHRER
i just seriously considered joining ugl again
oh dear god what have i done
A perfect example of "I'm wrong, but I don't want to admit it, and to save face, I'm going to ban a few people and throw this dust under the rug." <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Was it you or deimos who said he was the best thing ever. Deimos I think.
As for the issue. You play in CAL. If you dont agree with the rules or how the CAL admin carries out the rules, you're free to join another league. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Cal-NS gestapo is in full force... EIN VOLK, EIN REICH, EIN FUHRER <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
first they came for the jews but i said nothing for i was not a jew
As for the issue. You play in CAL. If you dont agree with the rules or how the CAL admin carries out the rules, you're free to join another league. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Cal-NS gestapo is in full force... EIN VOLK, EIN REICH, EIN FUHRER <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
first they came for the jews but i said nothing for i was not a jew <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol u said jew
first they came for <b>photek</b> but i said nothing for i was not <b>photek</b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fixed.
i just seriously considered joining ugl again
oh dear god what have i done <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I miss you nerdy! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
A perfect example of "I'm wrong, but I don't want to admit it, and to save face, I'm going to ban a few people and throw this dust under the rug." <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Was it you or deimos who said he was the best thing ever. Deimos I think. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It was Ampednews...
i just seriously considered joining ugl again
oh dear god what have i done <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I miss you nerdy! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
i miss you too salt+pepper