Lets look at european NS where blockscripts 1 is on all leagues yet my clan will scrim often on a bs_0 server provided i have rcon and our opponents aren't Spanish. Does my teams efficiency change between bs_0 pcws and the bs_1 league matches? No. Does that mean i'd not rather have my 3jump over my mousewheel though? No.
To say they don't give an advantage would be naive, cwag says his pistol script allows him more control, thus is an advantage. But the advantage will range from player to player. Does a 3jump given an advantage to someone who bunnyhops with a mousewheel? No. Does it give an advantage to someone with lower FPS and a worn old mousewheel? Yes.
The real question though is: how big an advantage is it? In my opinion the advantage given my scripting is so mininal that it is easily out weighed by many ingame factors such as starting hive, latency and a players hardware. Why people choose to focus in on scripts I don't know, but if you're worried about playing with people who have an advantage then scripting is the wrong subject to focus in on.
Some people claim that scripts will help you win rounds, well sure the marine might pistol the skulk and be using a script, then stay alive long enough to get the PG up and thus deny second hive. But how do you know firstly that the player had a script unless he tells you. Secondly, do you plan on running the scenario over and over again to see if he can do the same without a script? Maybe next time you run it his ISP has an issue and he ping spikes, maybe the skulks power supply explodes, maybe lighting strikes the server and the entire thing just dies. Who's to say the script won you a round? Do you truely know? No? That's what i thought.
The entire thing just seems like a scapegoat to me.
As for the creation of a variable, in my opinion it was a wrong move. I think it sends out the wrong message to new players. The existance of a script blocking variable implies that scripts need to be blocked. A far better move would of just been to educate users about the effects of scripting and the implications.
<!--QuoteBegin-MrBen+Jun 29 2005, 06:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrBen @ Jun 29 2005, 06:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> As for the creation of a variable, in my opinion it was a wrong move. I think it sends out the wrong message to new players. The existance of a script blocking variable implies that scripts need to be blocked. A far better move would of just been to educate users about the effects of scripting and the implications. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ding ding
and if there's any "exploits", fix them rather then this
It's a myth that there are no exploitable scripts left in NS. There are acctually a good few. They all, however, involve the use of either +move commands or the +attack command. Why not just block those commands from being in any multiple binds or aliases and get rid of blockscripts all together?
I know a couple scriptable commands that include +move and +attack and can be used on BS_1 servers that are as annoying as hell anyways. The problem isn't all of scripting any more, it's the last 2 exploitable commands left in scripting.
youre just trying to score e-points with phrases like "Lol! sore fingers! better find another hobby!"
let me ask you if youve ever bunnyhopped in ns?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> First, what the hell is an e-point?
Second, my argument is that if you're hurting your hands playing a god damn video game, the problem is not the cvar that blocks your <i>one and only way</i> of soothing your poor, tortured frame - it's you.
(Yes, I bunnyhop. I can't go at 650 - not without celerity, at least - but I get by just fine. I use my spacebar, because I find that using my mousewheel doesn't feel right.)
<!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Jun 29 2005, 05:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Jun 29 2005, 05:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I have atheritis thanks<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You know what causes that (or, if you claim it's genetic, what aggravates it)? Too much time using your hands. You can use your imagination, here, but I'm willing to bet that you could spend some deal of time away from your keyboard. Learn how to surf, go for a walk, get a job - it's all gravy.
<!--QuoteBegin-Dubbilex+Jun 29 2005, 06:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dubbilex @ Jun 29 2005, 06:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Second, my argument is that if you're hurting your hands playing a god damn video game, the problem is not the cvar that blocks your <i>one and only way</i> of soothing your poor, tortured frame - it's you. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> my hand gets sore if i play too much, because i bhop with mwheel.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> (Yes, I bunnyhop. I can't go at 650 - not without celerity, at least - but I get by just fine. I use my spacebar, because I find that using my mousewheel doesn't feel right.)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
the skulk speed cap without cele is 510, yes thats with bhop. and i have the exact opposite as you - to me, space bar hopping doesnt feel right (even with scripts).
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Jun 29 2005, 06:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Jun 29 2005, 06:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It's a myth that there are no exploitable scripts left in NS. There are acctually a good few. They all, however, involve the use of either +move commands or the +attack command. Why not just block those commands from being in any multiple binds or aliases and get rid of blockscripts all together?
I know a couple scriptable commands that include +move and +attack and can be used on BS_1 servers that are as annoying as hell anyways. The problem isn't all of scripting any more, it's the last 2 exploitable commands left in scripting. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> rate commands can be exploited as well
i'm sure theres more
also these dont even need to be scripted, just bound
<!--QuoteBegin-Dubbilex+Jun 29 2005, 06:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dubbilex @ Jun 29 2005, 06:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Allright then, fellas. I'm finished. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> cool that you posted this in a separate post, but yeah good luck have fun? also dont forget to <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->spend some deal of time away from your keyboard. Learn how to surf, go for a walk, get a job - it's all gravy.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Fatal Error+Jun 29 2005, 06:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fatal Error @ Jun 29 2005, 06:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I am so ****ing sick of any thing that's "killing ns anymore." All you people do anymore is WHINE!
omg co is killing ns omg bs 1 is killing ns
I'm sick of it. If you don't like BS on, get HLSW or leave the server. If you want to play on the server, adapt. guys, its like you have to use scripts or the game sucks. For once, play a game without being blind in outrage over scripts. That's all.
That said, I use a Skulk leap+bite bind. I like scripts, I'm just ****ing amazed at the whining in this community. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That's what I said. It's threads like THESE that are part of killing NS. I mean honestly, this is just another pro/anti-scripting argument thread. If you want to blame pubbers not scripting as the death of NS...I'm laughing, I really am.
And you wouldn't use scripts if they weren't beneficial, think about it. If they weren't beneficial in some way no matter how obscure or insignificant, IT'D MAKE NO SENSE TO USE IT. Tell me any script that you use to play and I'll tell you how it's beneficial for you to use. This is not a point for pro-scripting or anti-scripting, because I know some uptight moron will take it that way as an excuse to further e-splooge all over this terrible thread.
<!--QuoteBegin-joee+Jun 29 2005, 05:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (joee @ Jun 29 2005, 05:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> fun fact, voogru attempted many "script blocking" variants on his server including a <b>250 ms forced delay</b> on changing weapons to block leap+bite scripts <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> voogru personally was terrible at ns, and probably all fps's from what i remember, it wasn't so much clan play he despised but people who were good at the game
i.e. he believed everyone who could fastswitch faster then 250ms was a scripter.
also i realize flayra may have come up with it, but he certainly did not have the odd drive voogru did to create the status quo.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Some Real Facts: - mp_blockscripts was around long before voogru was a coder on NS. - Before he was a Dev he wrote a plugin to work around mp_blockscripts, because at that time it didn't work as it was supposed to (as memory serves it didn't do anything at all, because it was incredibly simple to work around). - It was NOT the "bunnyhop script detected you are now banned" plugin, that was made by someone entirely different. - voogru was essentially the driving force behind an entire build of NS, a build which incidently included about 50 fixes that have absolutely nothing to do with mp_blockscripts. - mp_blockscripts was listed as broken in Mantis (the system we use to track bugs), voogru simply fixed something that had been marked as BROKEN and brought it in line with specifications that were GIVEN TO HIM. - He is one of the nicest guys you could ever talk to. To say he hated people who were better then him at a video game is both incredibly unfair and based on all the times I had the opportunity to speak with him completely untrue. I have trouble believing he would have spent the insanely high amount of time he did working on NS while he was a Dev if he hated the people playing it.
Stop blaming voogru for things that aren't his fault (if you can even use the words "blame" and "fault" here) when he contributed a ton of time and energy to a game that you enjoy (or at least that you enjoy complaining about).
<!--QuoteBegin-Ahnteis+Jun 29 2005, 05:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ahnteis @ Jun 29 2005, 05:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-TOmekki+Jun 29 2005, 10:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TOmekki @ Jun 29 2005, 10:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Jun 29 2005, 05:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Jun 29 2005, 05:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I wasn't referring to clans only use scripts, because its ignorant and down right foolish to generalize. If your going to take away a script like 3hop you might as well disable the mousewheel for jumping, force the gamma and brightness to one level for everyone, etc. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> dont give them ideas, sigh <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> NS already comes with a gamma forcer. However, all it really does is make it hard to see ANYTHING on ATI cards. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Amen. Quoted for truth. I have to turn the gamma all the way up, turn lightgamma 0, and keep my monitor all the way bright to be average. If someone took away lightgamma, i would have to quit NS.
If all you guys are so anti-scripting adamant, then why is it that everyone I know plays just as good on bs 1 as 0?
Hell, I play BETTER because the gimped skulks don't bunnyhop and are insanely easy targets. You do know that bs 1 gimps the alien team, right? That bunnyhopping is a part of the game balance and as such should be accessibly easy to do, right?
Apparently not. You keep basking in your percieved wisdom, and cussing me out when I join your bs 1 server and slaughter all your walker skulks.
<!--QuoteBegin-stallioN+Jun 29 2005, 05:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (stallioN @ Jun 29 2005, 05:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Dubbilex+Jun 29 2005, 05:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dubbilex @ Jun 29 2005, 05:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Why do clanners need scripts? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Stereotype, much. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> almost as bad as the stereotype that people who dislike scripts are pubbers?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> my hand gets sore if i play too much, because i bhop with mwheel. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Perhaps you should use mouse3 then; After all, it is the same button as mwheel..
remove the blockscripts variable and make scripting allowed let the newbs cry if they leave, good tia<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Ahnteis+Jun 29 2005, 05:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ahnteis @ Jun 29 2005, 05:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Dubbilex+Jun 29 2005, 10:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dubbilex @ Jun 29 2005, 10:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It's obvious that the majority of scripts are not abusive. Something not quite as obvious is just why you folks still whine about bs_1 if your scripts mean nothing to you and are not a crucial part of your game.
If scripts aren't a crucial part of your game, just stop whining - you're just making yourselves look bad. If they are a crucial part of your game, you've got troubles.
Honestly, which way is it? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You seem to be forgetting the "scripts make gameplay more CONVENIENT".
As said above, I see plenty of excellent players who remain excellent on MP_BS 1 servers, but making the game more of a pain does not tend to help people enjoy it more.
EDIT: You are basically saying "Don't like it, then leave." -- and that's exactly what people are doing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Anyone who is quitting NS due to blockscripts really needs to evaluate their dedication to the game.
People always say "scripts", but never have I seen an example of what exactly you're talking. Except for 3jump. Solution: include 3jump as a bindable key in options, have it <i>not</i> be blocked by blockscripts. Issue fixed? What else could you need?
a_civilianLikes seeing numbersJoin Date: 2003-01-08Member: 12041Members, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead
edited June 2005
<!--QuoteBegin-Splinter Steve?+Jun 29 2005, 09:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Splinter Steve? @ Jun 29 2005, 09:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And you wouldn't use scripts if they weren't beneficial, think about it. If they weren't beneficial in some way no matter how obscure or insignificant, IT'D MAKE NO SENSE TO USE IT. Tell me any script that you use to play and I'll tell you how it's beneficial for you to use.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That has been answered numerous times in this thread alone.
Scripting is lame. Period. It gives a slight advantage to those that don't know howt o use it, and a major one to those that do. I know people that can't blink-meta-swipe for beans without scripts, yet have made scripts that blink, switch and meta, switch to swipe and swipe and upon release re-meta and then change back to swipe. That's just sad IMHO, because that's a computer doing that for you, not real skill. I can blink-meta-swipe WITHOUT scripts. There is only one script I use, and that was the one to activate the tracers., which I don't even think is a real script!
Now, as stated before, scripts can do many many things. I've seen people unload pistols INSANELY fast... you can also do that with the mousewheel. Both are, imho, wrong, and the pistol needs a cap, which it finally got.
Also, bunnyhopping should be a skill, not some random guess thing given to you by scripting 3 or 7 jumps at once... that's just lame. Anyone remember the lerk pancake? You can thank the 3 jump for that... I tried it once and found what a HUGE advantage it gave... and got rid of it cause I felt like an arse using it!
Also, scripts for extra building speed (I've seen some that, who knows how, double your build speed by spinnin ya around quicikly) are just wrong... wrong wrong wrong!
Now... some scripts I guess are okay... like the... no... wait... that gives an advantage... well what about... ... no...
AH! I know! The medpack/ammo impulse + text scripts! They're fine
Wait... they're BLOCKED
WHY are the ones that AREN"T advantageous in a large manner blocked while those that can offer an obvious advantage are?
*sighs*
I don't care at this point... I can NEARLY keep pace with any scripter in b-hop, pistol whip, blinkmetaswiping, whatever... all with real skill.
how do you know if anyone is using a script to do things you mentioned? do you ask them? what do they reply?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I know people that can't blink-meta-swipe for beans without scripts, yet have made scripts that blink, switch and meta, switch to swipe and swipe and upon release re-meta and then change back to swipe. That's just sad IMHO, because that's a computer doing that for you, not real skill.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i propably would find that very confusing, its much easier to use lastinv and slot keys. (WOW DING DING HE SAID EASIER, BETTER BAN THOSE AS WELL NOW) point being, its just a matter of preference.
I know people that can't blink-meta-swipe for beans without scripts, yet have made scripts that blink, switch and meta, switch to swipe and swipe and upon release re-meta and then change back to swipe. That's just sad IMHO, because that's a computer doing that for you, not real skill. I can blink-meta-swipe WITHOUT scripts. There is only one script I use, and that was the one to activate the tracers., which I don't even think is a real script!
Those scripts make you lose a lot of control, and no decent fade would use them(yes I know I'm a horrible fade)
Also, bunnyhopping should be a skill, not some random guess thing given to you by scripting 3 or 7 jumps at once... that's just lame. Anyone remember the lerk pancake? You can thank the 3 jump for that... I tried it once and found what a HUGE advantage it gave... and got rid of it cause I felt like an arse using it!
Do you have any idea what bunnyhopping is? The script makes the jump timing easier, the hard part is getting the strafing/mouse movements correct.
Also, scripts for extra building speed (I've seen some that, who knows how, double your build speed by spinnin ya around quicikly) are just wrong... wrong wrong wrong!
I don't know if those actully work, think it was just a rumor. If they do it should be fixed.
<!--QuoteBegin-Splinter Steve?+Jun 29 2005, 08:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Splinter Steve? @ Jun 29 2005, 08:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Tell me any script that you use to play and I'll tell you how it's beneficial for you to use. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> my userconfig: <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=94532&view=findpost&p=1505040' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....dpost&p=1505040</a>
<!--QuoteBegin-BulletHead+Jun 29 2005, 11:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BulletHead @ Jun 29 2005, 11:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Here's my stance... and it's a tad long winded
Scripting is lame. Period. It gives a slight advantage to those that don't know howt o use it, and a major one to those that do. I know people that can't blink-meta-swipe for beans without scripts, yet have made scripts that blink, switch and meta, switch to swipe and swipe and upon release re-meta and then change back to swipe. That's just sad IMHO, because that's a computer doing that for you, not real skill. I can blink-meta-swipe WITHOUT scripts. There is only one script I use, and that was the one to activate the tracers., which I don't even think is a real script!
Now, as stated before, scripts can do many many things. I've seen people unload pistols INSANELY fast... you can also do that with the mousewheel. Both are, imho, wrong, and the pistol needs a cap, which it finally got.
Also, bunnyhopping should be a skill, not some random guess thing given to you by scripting 3 or 7 jumps at once... that's just lame. Anyone remember the lerk pancake? You can thank the 3 jump for that... I tried it once and found what a HUGE advantage it gave... and got rid of it cause I felt like an arse using it!
Also, scripts for extra building speed (I've seen some that, who knows how, double your build speed by spinnin ya around quicikly) are just wrong... wrong wrong wrong!
Now... some scripts I guess are okay... like the... no... wait... that gives an advantage... well what about... ... no...
AH! I know! The medpack/ammo impulse + text scripts! They're fine
Wait... they're BLOCKED
WHY are the ones that AREN"T advantageous in a large manner blocked while those that can offer an obvious advantage are?
*sighs*
I don't care at this point... I can NEARLY keep pace with any scripter in b-hop, pistol whip, blinkmetaswiping, whatever... all with real skill. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> So youre also against bunnyhopping, custom crosshairs, the ability to aim, have good snap reflexes, etc?
Also NGE: If that was a sarcastic joke, it was great.
Personally I use a 3jump script, and the basic 'need medpack' binds.
Bunnyhopping is something that takes times to learn, and the script will help a small amount. No speed is gained by jumping rapidly, the speed is gained by strafing and turning your mouse, none of which can be scripted. This means that bunnyhopping consists mostly of skill/practice, and for those that use 3jump, a small amount of 'scripting'.
Fading is something that people can get incredibly skilled at. Particularly 2 hive fades, those who use metabolize every single time it cools down. Something I've been trying to improve at recently is blinking, swiping, and metabolizing. I do however find it very irritating that people are out there that use 'metab' scripts, which can be as simple as holding down a mouse button to metabolize, releasing it to go back to blink/swipe. In my opinion this kind of script really DOES make fading a hell of a lot easier, as it's an extra pile of health and adrenaline every couple of seconds with no practice needed.
I'm against anything unnatural in the game... if you aren't skilled enough to multitask to b-hop, doom on you, learn to lerk or fade.
I've played at less than 30 fps... my first PC, i played at about 10 fps if I was lucky. I learned to b-hop, shoot, aim, shotgun, grenade, and jetpack just fine. Now however I'm acustomed to 100 fps so going back down would be challenging.
Comments
To say they don't give an advantage would be naive, cwag says his pistol script allows him more control, thus is an advantage. But the advantage will range from player to player. Does a 3jump given an advantage to someone who bunnyhops with a mousewheel? No. Does it give an advantage to someone with lower FPS and a worn old mousewheel? Yes.
The real question though is: how big an advantage is it? In my opinion the advantage given my scripting is so mininal that it is easily out weighed by many ingame factors such as starting hive, latency and a players hardware. Why people choose to focus in on scripts I don't know, but if you're worried about playing with people who have an advantage then scripting is the wrong subject to focus in on.
Some people claim that scripts will help you win rounds, well sure the marine might pistol the skulk and be using a script, then stay alive long enough to get the PG up and thus deny second hive. But how do you know firstly that the player had a script unless he tells you. Secondly, do you plan on running the scenario over and over again to see if he can do the same without a script? Maybe next time you run it his ISP has an issue and he ping spikes, maybe the skulks power supply explodes, maybe lighting strikes the server and the entire thing just dies. Who's to say the script won you a round? Do you truely know? No? That's what i thought.
The entire thing just seems like a scapegoat to me.
As for the creation of a variable, in my opinion it was a wrong move. I think it sends out the wrong message to new players. The existance of a script blocking variable implies that scripts need to be blocked. A far better move would of just been to educate users about the effects of scripting and the implications.
ding ding
and if there's any "exploits", fix them rather then this
I know a couple scriptable commands that include +move and +attack and can be used on BS_1 servers that are as annoying as hell anyways. The problem isn't all of scripting any more, it's the last 2 exploitable commands left in scripting.
youre just trying to score e-points with phrases like "Lol! sore fingers! better find another hobby!"
let me ask you if youve ever bunnyhopped in ns?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First, what the hell is an e-point?
Second, my argument is that if you're hurting your hands playing a god damn video game, the problem is not the cvar that blocks your <i>one and only way</i> of soothing your poor, tortured frame - it's you.
(Yes, I bunnyhop. I can't go at 650 - not without celerity, at least - but I get by just fine. I use my spacebar, because I find that using my mousewheel doesn't feel right.)
<!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Jun 29 2005, 05:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Jun 29 2005, 05:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I have atheritis thanks<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You know what causes that (or, if you claim it's genetic, what aggravates it)? Too much time using your hands. You can use your imagination, here, but I'm willing to bet that you could spend some deal of time away from your keyboard. Learn how to surf, go for a walk, get a job - it's all gravy.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
my hand gets sore if i play too much, because i bhop with mwheel.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
(Yes, I bunnyhop. I can't go at 650 - not without celerity, at least - but I get by just fine. I use my spacebar, because I find that using my mousewheel doesn't feel right.)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
the skulk speed cap without cele is 510, yes thats with bhop. and i have the exact opposite as you - to me, space bar hopping doesnt feel right (even with scripts).
"OMG you have a car with an automatic transmission, YOU Script at life!"
It went something like that, I read it in someones sig.
That is basicly what a script is, it makes things easier but wont make you a better driver/player.
I know a couple scriptable commands that include +move and +attack and can be used on BS_1 servers that are as annoying as hell anyways. The problem isn't all of scripting any more, it's the last 2 exploitable commands left in scripting. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
rate commands can be exploited as well
i'm sure theres more
also these dont even need to be scripted, just bound
cool that you posted this in a separate post, but yeah good luck have fun? also dont forget to <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->spend some deal of time away from your keyboard. Learn how to surf, go for a walk, get a job - it's all gravy.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
omg co is killing ns
omg bs 1 is killing ns
I'm sick of it. If you don't like BS on, get HLSW or leave the server. If you want to play on the server, adapt. guys, its like you have to use scripts or the game sucks. For once, play a game without being blind in outrage over scripts. That's all.
That said, I use a Skulk leap+bite bind. I like scripts, I'm just ****ing amazed at the whining in this community. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's what I said. It's threads like THESE that are part of killing NS. I mean honestly, this is just another pro/anti-scripting argument thread. If you want to blame pubbers not scripting as the death of NS...I'm laughing, I really am.
And you wouldn't use scripts if they weren't beneficial, think about it. If they weren't beneficial in some way no matter how obscure or insignificant, IT'D MAKE NO SENSE TO USE IT. Tell me any script that you use to play and I'll tell you how it's beneficial for you to use. This is not a point for pro-scripting or anti-scripting, because I know some uptight moron will take it that way as an excuse to further e-splooge all over this terrible thread.
EVERYBODY CHILL OUTESFlHFSEPGEGI
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
fun fact, voogru attempted many "script blocking" variants on his server including a <b>250 ms forced delay</b> on changing weapons to block leap+bite scripts
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voogru personally was terrible at ns, and probably all fps's from what i remember, it wasn't so much clan play he despised but people who were good at the game
i.e. he believed everyone who could fastswitch faster then 250ms was a scripter.
also i realize flayra may have come up with it, but he certainly did not have the odd drive voogru did to create the status quo.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Some Real Facts:
- mp_blockscripts was around long before voogru was a coder on NS.
- Before he was a Dev he wrote a plugin to work around mp_blockscripts, because at that time it didn't work as it was supposed to (as memory serves it didn't do anything at all, because it was incredibly simple to work around).
- It was NOT the "bunnyhop script detected you are now banned" plugin, that was made by someone entirely different.
- voogru was essentially the driving force behind an entire build of NS, a build which incidently included about 50 fixes that have absolutely nothing to do with mp_blockscripts.
- mp_blockscripts was listed as broken in Mantis (the system we use to track bugs), voogru simply fixed something that had been marked as BROKEN and brought it in line with specifications that were GIVEN TO HIM.
- He is one of the nicest guys you could ever talk to. To say he hated people who were better then him at a video game is both incredibly unfair and based on all the times I had the opportunity to speak with him completely untrue. I have trouble believing he would have spent the insanely high amount of time he did working on NS while he was a Dev if he hated the people playing it.
Stop blaming voogru for things that aren't his fault (if you can even use the words "blame" and "fault" here) when he contributed a ton of time and energy to a game that you enjoy (or at least that you enjoy complaining about).
dont give them ideas, sigh <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NS already comes with a gamma forcer. However, all it really does is make it hard to see ANYTHING on ATI cards. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Amen. Quoted for truth. I have to turn the gamma all the way up, turn lightgamma 0, and keep my monitor all the way bright to be average. If someone took away lightgamma, i would have to quit NS.
Just play on servers with bs 0.
Or, learn to do all those fancy things without scripts.
Hell, I play BETTER because the gimped skulks don't bunnyhop and are insanely easy targets. You do know that bs 1 gimps the alien team, right? That bunnyhopping is a part of the game balance and as such should be accessibly easy to do, right?
Apparently not. You keep basking in your percieved wisdom, and cussing me out when I join your bs 1 server and slaughter all your walker skulks.
remove the blockscripts variable and make scripting allowed
let the newbs cry
if they leave, good
tia
Stereotype, much. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
almost as bad as the stereotype that people who dislike scripts are pubbers?
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my hand gets sore if i play too much, because i bhop with mwheel.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Perhaps you should use mouse3 then; After all, it is the same button as mwheel..
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Dear Flayra,
remove the blockscripts variable and make scripting allowed
let the newbs cry
if they leave, good
tia<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Troll less.
If scripts aren't a crucial part of your game, just stop whining - you're just making yourselves look bad. If they are a crucial part of your game, you've got troubles.
Honestly, which way is it? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You seem to be forgetting the "scripts make gameplay more CONVENIENT".
As said above, I see plenty of excellent players who remain excellent on MP_BS 1 servers, but making the game more of a pain does not tend to help people enjoy it more.
EDIT: You are basically saying "Don't like it, then leave." -- and that's exactly what people are doing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Anyone who is quitting NS due to blockscripts really needs to evaluate their dedication to the game.
Solution: include 3jump as a bindable key in options, have it <i>not</i> be blocked by blockscripts. Issue fixed? What else could you need?
That has been answered numerous times in this thread alone.
Scripting is lame. Period. It gives a slight advantage to those that don't know howt o use it, and a major one to those that do. I know people that can't blink-meta-swipe for beans without scripts, yet have made scripts that blink, switch and meta, switch to swipe and swipe and upon release re-meta and then change back to swipe. That's just sad IMHO, because that's a computer doing that for you, not real skill. I can blink-meta-swipe WITHOUT scripts. There is only one script I use, and that was the one to activate the tracers., which I don't even think is a real script!
Now, as stated before, scripts can do many many things. I've seen people unload pistols INSANELY fast... you can also do that with the mousewheel. Both are, imho, wrong, and the pistol needs a cap, which it finally got.
Also, bunnyhopping should be a skill, not some random guess thing given to you by scripting 3 or 7 jumps at once... that's just lame. Anyone remember the lerk pancake? You can thank the 3 jump for that... I tried it once and found what a HUGE advantage it gave... and got rid of it cause I felt like an arse using it!
Also, scripts for extra building speed (I've seen some that, who knows how, double your build speed by spinnin ya around quicikly) are just wrong... wrong wrong wrong!
Now... some scripts I guess are okay... like the... no... wait... that gives an advantage... well what about... ... no...
AH! I know! The medpack/ammo impulse + text scripts! They're fine
Wait... they're BLOCKED
WHY are the ones that AREN"T advantageous in a large manner blocked while those that can offer an obvious advantage are?
*sighs*
I don't care at this point... I can NEARLY keep pace with any scripter in b-hop, pistol whip, blinkmetaswiping, whatever... all with real skill.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I know people that can't blink-meta-swipe for beans without scripts, yet have made scripts that blink, switch and meta, switch to swipe and swipe and upon release re-meta and then change back to swipe. That's just sad IMHO, because that's a computer doing that for you, not real skill.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i propably would find that very confusing, its much easier to use lastinv and slot keys. (WOW DING DING HE SAID EASIER, BETTER BAN THOSE AS WELL NOW) point being, its just a matter of preference.
CWAG: WHAT KIND'VE *** GET'S ARTHE-RIGHT-US ANYWAYS, PROBABLY SHOULD QUIT LIFE.
Those scripts make you lose a lot of control, and no decent fade would use them(yes I know I'm a horrible fade)
Also, bunnyhopping should be a skill, not some random guess thing given to you by scripting 3 or 7 jumps at once... that's just lame. Anyone remember the lerk pancake? You can thank the 3 jump for that... I tried it once and found what a HUGE advantage it gave... and got rid of it cause I felt like an arse using it!
Do you have any idea what bunnyhopping is? The script makes the jump timing easier, the hard part is getting the strafing/mouse movements correct.
Also, scripts for extra building speed (I've seen some that, who knows how, double your build speed by spinnin ya around quicikly) are just wrong... wrong wrong wrong!
I don't know if those actully work, think it was just a rumor. If they do it should be fixed.
my userconfig: <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=94532&view=findpost&p=1505040' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....dpost&p=1505040</a>
@bullethead: Blinkswipe and meta control scripts all use +attack
@Ravatar: pubbers and europeans*
Scripting is lame. Period. It gives a slight advantage to those that don't know howt o use it, and a major one to those that do. I know people that can't blink-meta-swipe for beans without scripts, yet have made scripts that blink, switch and meta, switch to swipe and swipe and upon release re-meta and then change back to swipe. That's just sad IMHO, because that's a computer doing that for you, not real skill. I can blink-meta-swipe WITHOUT scripts. There is only one script I use, and that was the one to activate the tracers., which I don't even think is a real script!
Now, as stated before, scripts can do many many things. I've seen people unload pistols INSANELY fast... you can also do that with the mousewheel. Both are, imho, wrong, and the pistol needs a cap, which it finally got.
Also, bunnyhopping should be a skill, not some random guess thing given to you by scripting 3 or 7 jumps at once... that's just lame. Anyone remember the lerk pancake? You can thank the 3 jump for that... I tried it once and found what a HUGE advantage it gave... and got rid of it cause I felt like an arse using it!
Also, scripts for extra building speed (I've seen some that, who knows how, double your build speed by spinnin ya around quicikly) are just wrong... wrong wrong wrong!
Now... some scripts I guess are okay... like the... no... wait... that gives an advantage... well what about... ... no...
AH! I know! The medpack/ammo impulse + text scripts! They're fine
Wait... they're BLOCKED
WHY are the ones that AREN"T advantageous in a large manner blocked while those that can offer an obvious advantage are?
*sighs*
I don't care at this point... I can NEARLY keep pace with any scripter in b-hop, pistol whip, blinkmetaswiping, whatever... all with real skill. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
So youre also against bunnyhopping, custom crosshairs, the ability to aim, have good snap reflexes, etc?
Also NGE: If that was a sarcastic joke, it was great.
Bunnyhopping is something that takes times to learn, and the script will help a small amount. No speed is gained by jumping rapidly, the speed is gained by strafing and turning your mouse, none of which can be scripted.
This means that bunnyhopping consists mostly of skill/practice, and for those that use 3jump, a small amount of 'scripting'.
Fading is something that people can get incredibly skilled at. Particularly 2 hive fades, those who use metabolize every single time it cools down. Something I've been trying to improve at recently is blinking, swiping, and metabolizing. I do however find it very irritating that people are out there that use 'metab' scripts, which can be as simple as holding down a mouse button to metabolize, releasing it to go back to blink/swipe. In my opinion this kind of script really DOES make fading a hell of a lot easier, as it's an extra pile of health and adrenaline every couple of seconds with no practice needed.
I'm against anything unnatural in the game... if you aren't skilled enough to multitask to b-hop, doom on you, learn to lerk or fade.
I've played at less than 30 fps... my first PC, i played at about 10 fps if I was lucky. I learned to b-hop, shoot, aim, shotgun, grenade, and jetpack just fine. Now however I'm acustomed to 100 fps so going back down would be challenging.