NS:Source or NS2?

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Comments

  • Silver_FoxSilver_Fox Spammer Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 34Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />

    I used to have a pretty nice sig too, but .. alas .. the host died a while ago and I didnt save it. :/
  • BigDBigD [OldF] Join Date: 2002-10-25 Member: 1596Members
    NS2 for sure.

    I want to be able to use new strategies and tactics. More variety. I'd like to see Combat more of a "one hive game" like the aforementioned territories mod, classic the "3 hive" game and maybe 2 hive maps that play different again.

    It'd level the playing field all over again. Otherwise we're liable to have a bunch of new players mixing with older, jaded players just like whats happening too often now. "omg tf in ms ftl tbh gg nsplayer!"

    It's bound to happen again, but shake the cake, I say.

    That probably makes no sense. But most bank machines only produce bills, so there.
  • Silver_FoxSilver_Fox Spammer Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 34Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    <b>Sweet</b>

    After searching all night long, I finally found my signature on the dead domain! wee..


    Anyway. I love how fire can spread in HL2 ... if the Alien infestation could spread like that ... perhaps with the aid of a Gorge using a bacteria .. 'agent' or something .. that'd help reinforce his builder role and would be awesome spreading that around.

    What benefit would it have ..? hell, I dunno .. maybe regen of some sort for aliens on it? damage over time (minor) for marines staying on it?

    I just like the idea of spreading the infestation .. lol
  • DirmDirm Join Date: 2004-08-30 Member: 31025Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    edited September 2006
    <!--quoteo(post=1568213:date=Sep 27 2006, 02:59 PM:name=Eternaly_Lost)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Eternaly_Lost @ Sep 27 2006, 02:59 PM) [snapback]1568213[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    I don't see how the timeframes to make these could be remotely close
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    They'll both feel like they're forever away, and infinity and 2 * infinity are mathematically equivalent <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> (feel free to substitute the appropriate limits if you're in the mood to wax pedantic).

    and now back to the actual subject...

    Many of the people I play NS with are interested in NS:S solely as an opportunity for NS to have a second chance at reaching critical mass. Not interested so much in new engine or graphics, but only in the new players that a big release such as NS:S might bring in. Many people who still play NS despair at how small the community has become.

    This opportunity appears to be the sole advantage in doing NS:S, and it's a small advantage, since one has to imagine players that devoted will give ns2 a shot anyway (at least as much as they would ns:s (i.e. if they can run source))

    NS:S has the disadvantages of having to stick to NS gameplay while making compromises for the source engine, being pretty much just a shinier NS (which is great if you love NS, but, purely anecdotally, I didn't play CS or DOD and their source releases didn't make me reconsider), competing with Intelligent Design (if they ever produce anything more interesting than story and concept art <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />), and having gameplay that's what, 6 years old by the time it's released? Yeah, starcraft has stuck around for a long time, but they had two iterations of warcraft to build on <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />. Also, with the constant tales about how NS has pushed HL to its limits, I have to imagine that it's full of ugly hacks to get the engine to do things that the valve developers never dreamt of. Those sorts of hacks are not things that are fun to port.

    So apparently I'm in favor of NS2. I wouldn't have guessed that yesterday. It strikes me as strange to again be targeting an engine that will likely be four years old by the time the mod is released, though. I guess the impact of that is rather lessened by the slow speed at which engines seem to be aging these days.

    Also, the idea of a popular vote on this subject scares me, given how easily I could imagine a write-in vote (were such allowed) for extra levels CO2 winning by a landside.
  • broadbandbroadband Join Date: 2005-01-06 Member: 33013Members
    edited September 2006
  • RobBRobB TUBES OF THE INTERWEB Join Date: 2003-08-11 Member: 19423Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited September 2006
    <!--quoteo(post=1568229:date=Sep 28 2006, 02:14 AM:name=Death_by_bullets)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Death_by_bullets @ Sep 28 2006, 02:14 AM) [snapback]1568229[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    NS + Doom3 Engine would = AWESOMENESS
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    Doom3 is like a Dentist that gives you Mathlessons while drilling in your Teeth...

    UT2k7 aka U³ is theh Ownage!
  • SkydancerSkydancer Join Date: 2003-03-28 Member: 14959Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1568311:date=Sep 28 2006, 08:37 AM:name=RobB)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RobB @ Sep 28 2006, 08:37 AM) [snapback]1568311[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    Doom3 is like a Dentist that gives you Mathlessons while drilling in your Teeth...
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I didn't get it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" /> lol

    Oh wait, two times lame? Why? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
  • coriscoris Join Date: 2003-07-08 Member: 18034Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1568229:date=Sep 28 2006, 02:14 AM:name=Death_by_bullets)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Death_by_bullets @ Sep 28 2006, 02:14 AM) [snapback]1568229[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    NS + Doom3 Engine would = AWESOMENESS
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    ....no. I don't like the DOOM III engine at all. The netcode seems ###### aswell.

    (pixel hitdetection is pretty cool though)
  • AlcapwnAlcapwn &quot;War is the science of destruction&quot; - John Abbot Join Date: 2003-06-21 Member: 17590Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1568319:date=Sep 28 2006, 11:20 AM:name=coris)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(coris @ Sep 28 2006, 11:20 AM) [snapback]1568319[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    ....no. I don't like the DOOM III engine at all. The netcode seems ###### aswell.

    (pixel hitdetection is pretty cool though)
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Not if Quake War's has anything to say about it...
  • RobBRobB TUBES OF THE INTERWEB Join Date: 2003-08-11 Member: 19423Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    Magicword: If.
    Gameplay has yet to be Verified.
  • tjosantjosan Join Date: 2003-05-16 Member: 16374Members, Constellation
    !!!IMPORTANT!!!


    <!--quoteo(post=1568092:date=Sep 26 2006, 07:20 PM:name=Renholder)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Renholder @ Sep 26 2006, 07:20 PM) [snapback]1568092[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    I think whatever game you make, please lower the frustration level.

    What I mean is there are so many hitbox and server optimization problems with ns it's crazy, worse than any game i've ever played, because everything moves so fast. Whatever you do, please make hitboxes and netcode your number one priority. When people shoot at stuff, it should register!

    NS2 might be a good game if you can replicate the "fun" factor that's in ns. It would be cool to have some trick jumping for marines and wall jumping techniques for aliens, though i hope bunnyhopping isn't in ns:2. I mean I love doing it, but i totally recognize that it makes the game inaccessible because it's really a skill you NEED to learn.

    But seriously, the combination of inherent hitbox problems, unnoticed problems like the shotgun bug, and the fact that most pub servers don't get good fps because ns is so cpu intensive make this game really frustrating to pub. It's really the biggest drawback to NS IMHO. So i think you're better off fixing it with a new engine than using source which i hear has worse netcode than hl
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    !!!IMPORTANT!!!
  • BryBry Join Date: 2003-01-23 Member: 12609Members
    i think all the hitbox and other related problems in ns won't need fixing because i dont think they will occur in ns2 ns:s as the source engine is much more suitable for this game than the old hl1 engine was which caused a lot of these problems as the ns team probably pushed it just that little bit too far
  • Router_BoxRouter_Box Join Date: 2004-09-07 Member: 31483Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    edited September 2006
    ever see the hitboxes in cs:s?
    <i>attrocious.</i>
    It would be a possible disaster for ns.
  • FlayraFlayra Game Director, Unknown Worlds Entertainment San Francisco Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 3Super Administrators, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer
    The nice thing about becoming a Source licensee and releasing on Steam means we get full access to the engine source. So in theory, we should be able to fix, improve or rewrite any aspect the engine - including hitboxes.

    This is something that has never bothered me but is something we should look into making rock-solid up front before any balance testing.
  • MentarMentar Join Date: 2004-08-03 Member: 30321Members
    edited September 2006
    I'm going with ns:s. I don't mean to be negative. But i really don't beleive you when you say it will take the same amount of time to mod hl2 as it would to build an entire game, engine and all from scratch. And are you going to somehow get your game to accept maps made in hammer or one of the other mainstream editors? because that's what your entire map making community uses.


    People keep saying that they picked ns2 over ns:s because they want new content rather than just a remake. Have you considered that they could just as easily have that new content in ns:s? There's no reason it has to be a straight port to source as the exact same game.

    If anything, the time they can save on developement of the engine and other issues that would arise from designing a game from scratch would allow them to spend MORE time developing new content than if they went the ns2 option.
  • J!J! NS2 Artist Join Date: 2004-11-14 Member: 32788Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester
    Mentar, again, it's been said; NS2 will likely use the source engine (perhaps flayra needs to add this to his original post).
  • KarbaKarba Join Date: 2006-09-23 Member: 58040Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Gold
    <!--quoteo(post=1568468:date=Sep 29 2006, 06:57 PM:name=Mentar)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mentar @ Sep 29 2006, 06:57 PM) [snapback]1568468[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->

    People keep saying that they picked ns2 over ns:s because they want new content rather than just a remake. Have you considered that they could just as easily have that new content in ns:s? There's no reason it has to be a straight port to source as the exact same game.
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    100% agree. If you add new content to NSS it automatically becomes NS2.
    And the discussion about the future NS2 engine...it's clear that it has to be the Source Engine.
  • Cereal_KillRCereal_KillR Join Date: 2002-10-31 Member: 1837Members
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> - If we made NS2, we would likely not go back and remake NS:S<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    If you made NS:S, will you likely go on to make NS2 (as was originally believed)?

    While I absolutely want an NS2 made, I truly have my doubts that both games could be completed in the same timeframe. I myself am patient, but it might be smart to make a straight port to revive interest (and faith) in the current playerbase, as well as recruiting a number of newcomers.
    On the other hand, a whole new game would most likely take much more time, not simply to make, but mostly to make it playable: it has taken quite some time for NS to evolve to the state it is today, and it is still not perfect balance-wise. Considering a more complex game, it would hardly be feasible in the same timeframe as a simple rewrite of NS, even with minor tweaks.

    On the other hand, a simple rewrite would be a waste of time in my opinion. I don't care for it, the HL1 engine suits me fine (gameplay > shinies), but perhaps the greater public does.
  • AlxyAlxy Join Date: 2003-11-26 Member: 23578Members, NS1 Playtester
    ns2, because have a new engine for improvement the ns...
  • MystiqqMystiqq Join Date: 2003-01-03 Member: 11755Members
    edited September 2006
    Im finding it hard to believe that NS2, as you said, would take "about" the same time to make as NS:S. Then again, im no expert...

    From my "sceptic" point of view, id prefer the NS:S first and then update from there. Even seeing NS on source engine, with old models and animations etc., would be a nice start.

    I donno. However, if it really takes as much time then obviously NS2 is my choice...
  • RufflesRuffles Join Date: 2005-01-08 Member: 33795Members
    Well..... i voted NS:S but thinking in future of ns, i realize that NS2 is gonna be better to the NS community, and to the game too =D everything changes isn´t it ? =p
  • eliotmateliotmat Join Date: 2002-12-01 Member: 10350Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I assume that the NS team would provide periodic updates to the game on source as they have on the HL engine. Think of how much the game has changed from 1.04 to 3.1. The source version would likely be treated to this same process.

    If my assumption is correct then NS:S would eventually experience source-specific innovations. <b>We'd get to play NS:S while the devs eventually turn it into NS2.</b>

    My vote: NS:S

    Get it sooner. Revive this community. Get changes later.
  • Death_by_bulletsDeath_by_bullets Join Date: 2004-03-14 Member: 27336Members
    I second Matthews opinion. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/asrifle.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::asrifle::" border="0" alt="asrifle.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/fade.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::fade::" border="0" alt="fade.gif" /> Fade Down.
  • RubbersRubbers Join Date: 2004-07-12 Member: 29885Members
    edited October 2006
    Hi,

    From my own personal view, i'd rather see ns:source, just because of the fact that people have already purchase hl2 and also, the publicity of the game will be a lot bigger if steam advertise the game, hence, more server's being full again.

    Another point i'd like to mention is, it may not be your problem in regard's to modifications to the game, meaning ingame mod's that server's use, but they cause many problems with laggyness in relation to the hitbox problem's that occur most of the time and user's end up rage quitting because they cant hit anything. There should be some limitation's to the new ns2 or ns:source, which ever it may be so that people can enjoy the game more without any interference's.

    A prime example where little modification's are use are australia new zealand server's, other than the custom map server's which just kill it.
  • PetcoPetco Join Date: 2003-07-27 Member: 18478Members, Constellation
    Okay, for those of you saying <b>NS:S will just "split the community in half", NS2 will split it as well</b>. Some people might not like the new system/etc in NS2, and wants to stick with NS1 and want a "remake" of it. Though NS2 is the better choice overall.

    If NS:Source was simply better graphics and minor gameplay changes, then I'd go with NS2. I don't think graphics are important in games like FPS or RTS. RPGs with long storylines/cutscenes, I'd imagine incredible graphics being a nice addition. But honestly, what's the point in FPS or RTS?

    I'm content with the HL1 graphics, definately with the HL2 graphics.
  • RobBRobB TUBES OF THE INTERWEB Join Date: 2003-08-11 Member: 19423Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1568467:date=Sep 29 2006, 08:48 PM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Flayra @ Sep 29 2006, 08:48 PM) [snapback]1568467[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    The nice thing about becoming a Source licensee and releasing on Steam means we get full access to the engine source. So in theory, we should be able to fix, improve or rewrite any aspect the engine - including hitboxes.

    This is something that has never bothered me but is something we should look into making rock-solid up front before any balance testing.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I wonder if you let us Forumzombies Beta it.... But that's constellation I think.
    Yea, I had Garry's concept in mind, where the Buggy and yet Unstable Versions are just a Mod / Beta, but the final 10 (1.0?!) costs.
  • Andrew_FirebornAndrew_Fireborn Join Date: 2006-09-21 Member: 58036Members
    edited October 2006
    hmm... here's an idea:

    We have "classic" servers already... mostly because of the general unfun that CO can be...

    What if NS:S and NS2 are in the same package, but are different game types. Heck, barring the addition of the theoretical fourth hive location, they could use the same maps, unlike CO.

    The difference being the "classic" mode is what we have now... HMGs, Heavies, JPs, fades, Oni, and the such... and the "official" could add all the bells and whistles that are supposed to be going into NS2...

    I suppose that this would render the poll moot, but eh. It would encourage people, even if they didn't like the NS2 upgrades, to still buy the product.


    Edit: And CS:S is indeed horrible in the Hitbox and netcode department... However, Dystopia has excellent hit detection, so it isn't expressly a source issue.
  • im_lostim_lost TWG Rule Guru Join Date: 2003-04-26 Member: 15861Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1568661:date=Oct 1 2006, 09:47 AM:name=Andrew_Fireborn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Andrew_Fireborn @ Oct 1 2006, 09:47 AM) [snapback]1568661[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    hmm... here's an idea:

    We have "classic" servers already... mostly because of the general unfun that CO can be...

    What if NS:S and NS2 are in the same package, but are different game types. Heck, barring the addition of the theoretical fourth hive location, they could use the same maps, unlike CO.

    The difference being the "classic" mode is what we have now... HMGs, Heavies, JPs, fades, Oni, and the such... and the "official" could add all the bells and whistles that are supposed to be going into NS2...

    I suppose that this would render the poll moot, but eh. It would encourage people, even if they didn't like the NS2 upgrades, to still buy the product.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The thing is, a lot of people don't want to wait any longer than they have to, and this would just create a longer wait than either of the poll options, so if anything it would be a third poll option (and would probably have about 2 votes).
  • TestamentTestament Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 4037Members
    The biggest thing is, NS is old. It's still great, but it's still NS. The gameplay has barely changed since the first release, and while people may love familiarity, new ideas are more important. I'd say NS2 would be a much bigger, more valuable, and more rewarding project. NS2 can still be in the same story, just moved on. Gameplay would change, areas would become more varied, and Flayra can do what he wants to retool the game to be something fresh and interesting again.

    The only thing about NS2 that's worrying is that if it'd be based around big battles. NS should always be a little suspense-based, if you ask me. Anything NS is definitely lost fighting 64 player battles in day-light canyons just zerging back and forth. It has to be a fine balance, but I think Flayra knows what he wants, and he doesn't seem to be the sort to ruin NS with swarm gameplay. I vote NS2.
  • PetcoPetco Join Date: 2003-07-27 Member: 18478Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1568670:date=Oct 1 2006, 11:52 AM:name=im_lost)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(im_lost @ Oct 1 2006, 11:52 AM) [snapback]1568670[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    The thing is, a lot of people don't want to wait any longer than they have to, and this would just create a longer wait than either of the poll options, so if anything it would be a third poll option (and would probably have about 2 votes).
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    Actually, splitting NS2 to two modes(<i>Two modes of Classic</i>) doesn't sound that hard.

    Anyway, they could do it after they release NS2.


    Anyway, here is how it works right(?):

    <b>NS:Source </b>- The current NS on the HL2 engine, but no major gameplay changes or new system or features that changes the game significately.

    <b>NS2</b> - NS:Source with gameplay changes or new features that change theh game significately.

    Both uses the HL2 engine.

    <b>I'll assume that the devs will start making NS2 by making NS:Source, then adding in the features that will create NS2.</b> Is that right?


    First, they'll take the last version of regular NS, like how much a weapon does damage, and the stats and stuff.

    They'll port it to HL2 in a long process. Leave it at that, keep that as a gamemode called "Natural Selection <i><b>Classic</b></i>"(Emphasis on "<i><b>Classic</b></i>").

    Okay, after they save everything, they can start adding new features.

    The new gamemode of Natural Selection 2, will be called "<b>Natural Selection 2</b>".


    Am I misinformed on any parts of my post? This is what I gathered from the posts in this topic.
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