<!--quoteo(post=1664245:date=Dec 16 2007, 08:16 PM:name=Faskalia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Faskalia @ Dec 16 2007, 08:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664245"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But some people like user friendliness and a better interface...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->What does that have to do with 2D?
<!--quoteo(post=1664282:date=Dec 16 2007, 11:07 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Align @ Dec 16 2007, 11:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664282"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What does that have to do with 2D?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, although dwarf fortress offers a great gameplay experience, the lack of a decent interface and an easy to recognize gameworld makes it very, very cumversome to pick up.
Offering several layers, or height levels but presenting it in a rouge style gameworld is just extremely complicated and requires the player to put lots of time into the game before he is able to navigate through the gameworld.
With a simple 3d engine that offers easy to recognize textures and models (they dont even need to be very detailed) this game could actually be learned in 1h instead of 10h.
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1664389:date=Dec 17 2007, 08:26 AM:name=Faskalia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Faskalia @ Dec 17 2007, 08:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664389"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well, although dwarf fortress offers a great gameplay experience, the lack of a decent interface and an easy to recognize gameworld makes it very, very cumversome to pick up.
Offering several layers, or height levels but presenting it in a rouge style gameworld is just extremely complicated and requires the player to put lots of time into the game before he is able to navigate through the gameworld.
With a simple 3d engine that offers easy to recognize textures and models (they dont even need to be very detailed) this game could actually be learned in 1h instead of 10h.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You have missed the point.
DF would not be any where near as AWESOME as it is now if any tom ###### or harry (seriously, that expression is just wrong "Penis, Penis, or Penis") could play it.
Playing DF properly is like SERIOUS friken Geek Cred.
It's not THAT hard, guys... <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well, although dwarf fortress offers a great gameplay experience, the lack of a decent interface and an easy to recognize gameworld makes it very, very cumbersome to pick up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Again, what does that have to do with 2D? The interface wouldn't automatically be better if the game went 3D. It might be worse, even, if the camera is as far away as in most of the example screenshots (though it'd probably be fine if it was at dungeon-keeper-like distance. <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Offering several layers, or height levels but presenting it in a rouge style gameworld is just extremely complicated and requires the player to put lots of time into the game before he is able to navigate through the gameworld.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Eh? Moving with the arrow keys is intuitive, and adding two more keys for going up and down levels isn't very different. <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->With a simple 3d engine that offers easy to recognize textures and models (they dont even need to be very detailed) this game could actually be learned in 1h instead of 10h.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->The standard tileset is a bit crappy, but fortunately most sources that tell you about the game also tell you about the options that're available to you. I doubt 3D would help any more than distinct 2D graphics for objects.
The graphics could be more intuitive sure, but that isn't the game's biggest problem. The game's biggest problem is that there is no tutorial mode. Hell, even NetHack has a God Mode. The game is expansive and complicated and the player is dropped into it with almost no idea what is going on instead of being introduced to the major game concepts in a gradual manner that allows them to gain confidence with the interface, knowledge of their objectives, and some idea how to go about achieving them. And you know what makes it even worse? That the process of fiddling around and trying to guess how certain things work and what the hell is going on in the game world just isn't any fun at all.
<!--quoteo(post=1664575:date=Dec 19 2007, 04:02 AM:name=SkulkBait)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SkulkBait @ Dec 19 2007, 04:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664575"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The graphics could be more intuitive sure, but that isn't the game's biggest problem. The game's biggest problem is that there is no tutorial mode. Hell, even NetHack has a God Mode. The game is expansive and complicated and the player is dropped into it with almost no idea what is going on instead of being introduced to the major game concepts in a gradual manner that allows them to gain confidence with the interface, knowledge of their objectives, and some idea how to go about achieving them. And you know what makes it even worse? That the process of fiddling around and trying to guess how certain things work and what the hell is going on in the game world just isn't any fun at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> instead of god mode, you can pause for as long as you like whenever you like. also, half the fun of the game is having your fortresses fail and having your dwarves chew each others' eyes out as they go mad from starvation.
but really, I do agree with you. I know all the basics and I'm still intimidated by the game.
I don't think simply having the ability to pause the game is sufficient. The turn based style of NetHack does work pretty well for the newbie, but lets face it: NetHack is a much simpler game in that you have a more traditional gameplay with direct control over a single character.
Year ten for me on my very first fort ever. It's a pre-Z-axis version that I want to finish before I change to the new version.
I got my second goblin siege today. About thirty goblins and seven trolls. Never seen trolls before, so it was quite exciting. I'd had a goblin siege about five years ago so I'd had plenty of time to prepare.
It all started with a dwarven caravan appearing in the distance. This was welcome since I hadn't had any immigrants for the past few years and I was looking to increase my reputation to try to lure a few more dwarves in. When the caravan was about halfway to my fort...
"A vile force of darkness has arrived!"
Ohnoes! The goblins swarmed in from the north and south. They caught up with the caravan and slaughtered it dwarf and mule. After the bloodbath they turned and headed for my fort. I'd ordered all my dwarves inside and locked my front and second-front doors. The goblin horde swept through my market, killing a few humans that had been lingering since a few trading seasons ago, I never knew why.
The humans fought bravely and managed to bring down a few of the goblins. The trolls arrived from the north and began smashing my few remaining outdoor workshops. The horde gathered around my front doors while the trolls beat upon them. After about thirty seconds of hammering, the doors exploded.
Outward.
Along with a wall of magma.
Five goblins survived. No trolls survived.
Dwarven death toll: zero.
And <a href="http://scythe.gotdns.com/goblinrape.rar" target="_blank">here's</a> a recording of it.
I'd spent the last few years building a means to route a flow of magma from the back of my fort over the chasm, over the river, around my food stores and into the antechamber just inside my front doors. The result: if it's not lava-proof, it's not getting in.
I love DF.
--Scythe--
P.S. <a href="http://scythe.gotdns.com/year10.png" target="_blank">Here's</a> a shot of my entire fortress, immediately following the invasion.
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
so, I am curious.
the magma trap (kill the world!) is not exactly a new one. However you didn't seem to flood the world with magma (the lack of dead greenery every where). So, where did it go exactly?
What I've circled there is a kind of moat made from channels. Lava can flow INTO them, but not out. It prevents the lava scouring the entire world. (Which I've had happen once or twice)
A while back I got the dwarven King to come to my fort for the first time. I've reached my population cap (200) many times before, but then I've thought of some other neat fort design and started over (and eventually forgot about the design <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nerd-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::nerdy::" border="0" alt="nerd-fix.gif" /> ).
I've taken a habit of building a wall outside my fort. I choose the entrance so that I can easily build a wall to secure a (usually pretty large) area for outside farms, trade depot and of course trees. I've usually built it 3 z-levels high and 3 tiles thick. Then I leave a 5 tiles wide hole to the wall on the ground level, and make a gate from floodgates. This way I can close the gate in case of some threats (invasions, crazy wild animals), but also let the caravans and migrants pass easily <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> . And a gatehouse filled with all sorts of traps is a must :T
<!--quoteo(post=1671863:date=Mar 2 2008, 07:08 AM:name=Retales)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Retales @ Mar 2 2008, 07:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1671863"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->and make a gate from floodgates.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1671998:date=Mar 3 2008, 06:56 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Mar 3 2008, 06:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1671998"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Uhm... isn't that what a siege is all about? Y'know, lower the portcullis, raise the drawbridge, that sort of thing?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nha, a siege is all about:
let them pass over the drawbridge, through the gate. Close the inner gate Close the outer gate commence archery rape!
<!--quoteo(post=1671998:date=Mar 3 2008, 06:56 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Mar 3 2008, 06:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1671998"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Uhm... isn't that what a siege is all about? Y'know, lower the portcullis, raise the drawbridge, that sort of thing?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yes. Hence floodgates instead of doors. They could just smash the lock if they were mere doors. Or should be able to, anyway.
MonkfishSonic-boom-inducing buttcheeks of terrifying speed!Join Date: 2003-06-03Member: 16972Members
I really don't like fire imps..I just want a magma moat around my fortress...can't you give me that and not burn all my dorfs to death! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
MonkfishSonic-boom-inducing buttcheeks of terrifying speed!Join Date: 2003-06-03Member: 16972Members
they don't stop them from coming out the top of the vent! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
If you can, empty the channel, put a grate in the channel that would not allow a creature to travel along the channel and cover everything over top of that between the grate and the source and wall off the source (or just do it under ground) Allow the flow back into the channel and the creature cannot move past the grate. This means it can't get to a point along the channel where it can pop out and kill you.
Comments
Well, although dwarf fortress offers a great gameplay experience, the lack of a decent interface and an easy to recognize gameworld makes it very, very cumversome to pick up.
Offering several layers, or height levels but presenting it in a rouge style gameworld is just extremely complicated and requires the player to put lots of time into the game before he is able to navigate through the gameworld.
With a simple 3d engine that offers easy to recognize textures and models (they dont even need to be very detailed) this game could actually be learned in 1h instead of 10h.
Offering several layers, or height levels but presenting it in a rouge style gameworld is just extremely complicated and requires the player to put lots of time into the game before he is able to navigate through the gameworld.
With a simple 3d engine that offers easy to recognize textures and models (they dont even need to be very detailed) this game could actually be learned in 1h instead of 10h.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You have missed the point.
DF would not be any where near as AWESOME as it is now if any tom ###### or harry (seriously, that expression is just wrong "Penis, Penis, or Penis") could play it.
Playing DF properly is like SERIOUS friken Geek Cred.
Get it now?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well, although dwarf fortress offers a great gameplay experience, the lack of a decent interface and an easy to recognize gameworld makes it very, very cumbersome to pick up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Again, what does that have to do with 2D? The interface wouldn't automatically be better if the game went 3D. It might be worse, even, if the camera is as far away as in most of the example screenshots (though it'd probably be fine if it was at dungeon-keeper-like distance.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Offering several layers, or height levels but presenting it in a rouge style gameworld is just extremely complicated and requires the player to put lots of time into the game before he is able to navigate through the gameworld.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Eh? Moving with the arrow keys is intuitive, and adding two more keys for going up and down levels isn't very different.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->With a simple 3d engine that offers easy to recognize textures and models (they dont even need to be very detailed) this game could actually be learned in 1h instead of 10h.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->The standard tileset is a bit crappy, but fortunately most sources that tell you about the game also tell you about the options that're available to you. I doubt 3D would help any more than distinct 2D graphics for objects.
instead of god mode, you can pause for as long as you like whenever you like. also, half the fun of the game is having your fortresses fail and having your dwarves chew each others' eyes out as they go mad from starvation.
but really, I do agree with you. I know all the basics and I'm still intimidated by the game.
DWARF FORTRESS IS AWESOME.
Year ten for me on my very first fort ever. It's a pre-Z-axis version that I want to finish before I change to the new version.
I got my second goblin siege today. About thirty goblins and seven trolls. Never seen trolls before, so it was quite exciting. I'd had a goblin siege about five years ago so I'd had plenty of time to prepare.
It all started with a dwarven caravan appearing in the distance. This was welcome since I hadn't had any immigrants for the past few years and I was looking to increase my reputation to try to lure a few more dwarves in. When the caravan was about halfway to my fort...
"A vile force of darkness has arrived!"
Ohnoes! The goblins swarmed in from the north and south. They caught up with the caravan and slaughtered it dwarf and mule. After the bloodbath they turned and headed for my fort. I'd ordered all my dwarves inside and locked my front and second-front doors. The goblin horde swept through my market, killing a few humans that had been lingering since a few trading seasons ago, I never knew why.
The humans fought bravely and managed to bring down a few of the goblins. The trolls arrived from the north and began smashing my few remaining outdoor workshops. The horde gathered around my front doors while the trolls beat upon them. After about thirty seconds of hammering, the doors exploded.
Outward.
Along with a wall of magma.
Five goblins survived. No trolls survived.
Dwarven death toll: zero.
And <a href="http://scythe.gotdns.com/goblinrape.rar" target="_blank">here's</a> a recording of it.
I'd spent the last few years building a means to route a flow of magma from the back of my fort over the chasm, over the river, around my food stores and into the antechamber just inside my front doors. The result: if it's not lava-proof, it's not getting in.
I love DF.
--Scythe--
P.S. <a href="http://scythe.gotdns.com/year10.png" target="_blank">Here's</a> a shot of my entire fortress, immediately following the invasion.
the magma trap (kill the world!) is not exactly a new one. However you didn't seem to flood the world with magma (the lack of dead greenery every where). So, where did it go exactly?
however, w00t for magma trap!
What I've circled there is a kind of moat made from channels. Lava can flow INTO them, but not out. It prevents the lava scouring the entire world. (Which I've had happen once or twice)
--Scythe--
I've taken a habit of building a wall outside my fort. I choose the entrance so that I can easily build a wall to secure a (usually pretty large) area for outside farms, trade depot and of course trees. I've usually built it 3 z-levels high and 3 tiles thick. Then I leave a 5 tiles wide hole to the wall on the ground level, and make a gate from floodgates. This way I can close the gate in case of some threats (invasions, crazy wild animals), but also let the caravans and migrants pass easily <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> . And a gatehouse filled with all sorts of traps is a must :T
you can hook doors up to triggers...
Nha, a siege is all about:
let them pass over the drawbridge, through the gate.
Close the inner gate
Close the outer gate
commence archery rape!
Or should be able to, anyway.
If you can, empty the channel, put a grate in the channel that would not allow a creature to travel along the channel and cover everything over top of that between the grate and the source and wall off the source (or just do it under ground) Allow the flow back into the channel and the creature cannot move past the grate. This means it can't get to a point along the channel where it can pop out and kill you.