I guess that's right... but still... it's just probably bad luck or probably they had a bad day... either way, not everyone is like what you are saying...
Tremulous guys? As nice as your posts are, your opinions are biased.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the only time I told someone to read the manual was when the person was 100% clueless about the game and wanted to know how to change weapons. I also told him how.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just because you did it, changes nothing. There's more, but I think you get the point.
The problem as I see it, is some games attract more pissants than others. I'm sure some will agree that CS is a good example. We've all played CS, and we aren't all retards, by any means, now are we? No, because we like NS. There are still alot of retards in CS. Ergo, all CS players are retards.
I didn't really have any issue with the Tremulous players back when I played it. On the other hand, I played it for something like the first week after initial release, so I guess a coherent community hadn't really formed back then. I really should try that game again some time.
I realize not everyone is a jerk. I'm sure there are quite a few servers of NS_CO that are filled with people with bad reputations. However, after playing on three servers and only finding ONE player who didn't yell at me to RTFM, I was pretty turned off to the game, especially for the reasons I stated in the beginning. If your manual is poor, don't expect players to know what's going on right off the bat. And you might want to mention it to forum-goers that new blood is the only way to keep a game alive. NS has had the exact same problem, and it really broke my heart when the number of players started dropping.
As for why I don't play NS--I stopped because my computer doesn't handle Steam well. It handled HL, CS, WON, just fine. But after steam I get literal command lag when trying to play games online (and offline.) It's frustrating to know what you want to do, but get to watch helplessly as your computer refuses to let you.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
The tilting of wallwalking and the speed makes me dizzy. Not sure how this is possible, since I liked it in AvsP2 and had good control over me alien... The different tilt styles also don't help, instant tilt for example (or whatever it's called) is just weird <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Oh right, I really didn't like the tilting wallwalking. Confused me to no end. I always breathed a sigh of relief when I was done with that and could just concentrate on brutally maiming stuff instead of having to once again wonder where downward had NOW decided to put itself.
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
I played tremulous when it came out, and I need to try it again as I didn't play enough to really get a proper feel for the game. I think it is very unfair to tarnish an entire game and community based on limited experience. I'm sure many new players to NS find similar problems with our mod. The kind of negativity speed_2_dave describes tends to happen in all online gaming communities to some degree.
Hi there! People on the tremulous forums wanted you to see some of this stuff. <!--QuoteBegin-"Norfenstein"+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("Norfenstein")</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I was expecting their thread to be really flamey and ignorant but it actually just turned into a discussion about manuals and helping new players in games. I know Timbo likes forum drama, but if anyone replies I hope it'll just be to point them toward the strategy guides floating around, the wikis, and most importantly my <a href="http://tremulous.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2905" target="_blank">what's missing from the manual?</a> topic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll try to find the different strategy guides and stuff that would help you change your view. <a href="http://tremulous.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1049" target="_blank">http://tremulous.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1049</a> <a href="http://tremulous.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=394" target="_blank">http://tremulous.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=394</a> <a href="http://tremulous.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=559" target="_blank">http://tremulous.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=559</a> ah, here are the 2 tremulous wiki thingys. <a href="http://trem.maci.ws/pmwiki/pmwiki.php" target="_blank">http://trem.maci.ws/pmwiki/pmwiki.php</a> <a href="http://www.tremwiki.com/" target="_blank">http://www.tremwiki.com/</a>
And please, if you see the tremulous forum's "mirror thread" of this, don't be offended by our regular troll.
Hope i helped somebody out there, and made the gap between trem and ns communities smaller, although that might be a tad too much to hope.
Don't worry, some of us don't really have any 'allegiances' when it comes to games. I'm sure trem has many nice players like NS and equally as many clowns... I prefer to judge people as people rather than lassoing them all into affiliated groups :3
Funny thing about off-topic here is that a lot of us haven't even played NS for aaaaages. I certainly haven't touched it for over a year by now, maybe more ^^
you never know... I might stop playing my new wii and 360 long enough to boot up this old cranky PC with a game of Tremulous to see what I'm missing someday :D
Don't worry about your forum troll, we've got ours too. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
And yeah, I really think I should try that game again once I get back from the christmas holiday.
Hell, I have no idea what a Natural Selection player would even need a manual for. Unless the game has changed fundamentally since the first release version that I played, it shouldn't take an NS player more than half an hour to learn the basics. I mean, the similarities are quite apparent. The basic premise of "kill enemy, evolve/buy equipment, kill more enemy" is quite similar to NS Combat. I dunno, I don't see why the game would be that difficult to figure out.
Back from a christmas holiday I wanted to be over faster sadly. I think tremulous has a lot of good points going for it but they need to be brought out. I'm trying to figure out how to mod it some to make it more fair but hopefully that will be leveled in v1.2. I'm hoping when I play NS in a few days the major bug in trem will be absent in NS but in an alien v. human game, it's hard to make both sides equal.
Added: NS also has innovative map design from what I can tell. Now I am excited.
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
In steam go to the games menu and select 'Activate a product on steam' then enter your HL cd key and it will download HL. If you have HL installed it will give you the option to copy the content from your existing install.
Thanks. I searched the forum at steam and it suggested that it was iffy. This is a plus for tremulous as it is executable standalone and NS is not. I think I will make a list of my comparisons between the two and post them both places. One thing I have to note is the top down view command. I am not sure how good of an idea this is going into the game since one person seemes to take a force-able command position, whereas in tremulous, I just suggest an idea and people say yes or no.
well... the alien and human teams differ on that. There is no alien commander; it's only the human team who have a single player on top-down view issuing commands. The commands can't be enforced though; the marines have to participate and willingly obey otherwise the marine team gets slaughtered rather quickly :3
This is a matter of preference. You prefer everyone saying "hey team, let's all do this" and hoping that everyone agrees with you. Any coherent strategy you want to assemble is going to have to be explained to everyone by everyone on the fly, and orders will only be followed if they implicitly trust you or they can immediately see the logic behind them.
With NS, you have a commander who takes on all the strategizing duties, because he's free from the task of having to fight. This allows a coherent strategy to be implemented and it gives a centralized place from which orders originate; nobody argues with the commander because he's the boss, and if you don't do what he says you'll be ostracized. If you don't like his commanding, you're more than free to do it yourself or get someone else to do it, but either way the marines always have the benefit of an organized leadership. The aliens work like any other FPS team; maybe someone will take charge, maybe they won't, but there's little recourse if someone doesn't care to follow the plan and little structure for said plan to originate from.
If you like Tremulous' way, go ahead and play it. Nobody is going to mind. If you like Natural Selection, then you're more than welcome; it's an awesome mod. If you like both, play both. They're not mutually exclusive. You seem a little hostile to NS right now, with criticisms that I've never heard before and can't quite understand (Natural Selection IS a standalone executable, unless my ns.exe is a lie. You might be thinking standalone GAME, but that would require an engine, and NS is a goldsrc game, which means the engine is not free). Whatever happens, though, NS will always be there if you want to try it. And soon (well not exactly soon), we'll have NS2 too.
<!--quoteo(post=1594270:date=Jan 3 2007, 10:50 AM:name=Kuszja)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kuszja @ Jan 3 2007, 10:50 AM) [snapback]1594270[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Thanks. I searched the forum at steam and it suggested that it was iffy. This is a plus for tremulous as it is executable standalone and NS is not. I think I will make a list of my comparisons between the two and post them both places. One thing I have to note is the top down view command. I am not sure how good of an idea this is going into the game since one person seemes to take a force-able command position, whereas in tremulous, I just suggest an idea and people say yes or no. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do remember that in NS, there are two gamemodes . Combat or CO_ which is made for short, intense games that do not have any RTS elements in them at all and NS Classic or NS_ which is what Natural Selection is all about - the fusion of FPS and RTS.
If you'd like, I'd be happy to show you the ropes of the game. I primarily use Xfire for gaming, so you can add "spinviper" to your Xfire buddy list. Do not hesitate to bring any of your other Tremulous buddies along.
Good luck and I do hope you enjoy Natural-Selection.
Haha whoops, I entirely forgot about combat. Come to think of it, that might be a good way to start out learning the ropes. Join some CO server and just frag people until you're used to the guns and the aliens.
Can I just state to the author, it hasn't been locked yet and a damn long time to get locked if it does <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
He said to "watch how fast it gets locked." Clearly we are supposed to watch the glacial pace at which lockage is proceeding, and therefore praise the slothful mods or something for averting their wrath for so long.
So far I have just been on the human team because that is where the random team keeps putting me. I am now more fond of the commander but I was in a game with a dumb commander. I just kept treking across the map back and forth because he couldn't make up his mind. Also, I like the larger maps and the weapon variety a lot but I don't like the fact that you don't get to choose for your self. The humans also need to be able to move a bit faster too.
Spinviper, Thank you for helping explain parts of the game to me yesterday. I may be on today but It will most likely be on a dial up connection. (Time Warner refuses to service me).
To lolfighter: in tremulous, there is a power constraint for each of the bases (creep for aliens) and each structure takes up some ammout of power. Each human has credits to buy stuff with at the armoury and each alien has evolution points to become a stronger alien with. Only a human with an Advanced/Reg construction kit or the Adv/Reg granger can build structures. The more kills a team gets gets them closer to getting upgrages in stages. Generally stae 3 aliens should win unless the humans have moved their base into a tyrant inaccessable place or the alien team are pansies. If the humans have stage 2 first then they have a window in which ti take the game. My advice on players to avoid are Mortie and Popupman. Do not play on Popupman's server <i>ever</i>. The last time I was there he set humans at stage 4. Since there are no settings for stage 4, humans could not build anything or buy anything.
I hope that also helps anyone who is interested in tremulous.
Uh, why are you telling me that? I have already played the game. I'm confused. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
The humans (we call them marines around here) don't need to move faster. They have jetpacks and phase gates (buildings that you can teleport to/from) to help them get across the map extremely fast. If you had a bad commander, though, I could imagine having to run back and forth a lot. Try playing as aliens, or just hope you join a game with a good commander. That will make a real difference.
hmmm... gave trem a quick shot; everyone who talked seemed fairly nice :3
It seems like a good game but I don't think it appeals to my own personal tastes really. I was a big fan of AvP and I enjoyed NS but trem seems more fast paced than NS (I preferred NS's more casual pace and greater focus on capturing things over frags for resources) and it doesn't quite have the same airy silly fun feel that AvP somehow captured for me (but then again almost no game ever has :p ).
I felt oddly detatched from what was going on and wasn't often really all that aware if I was hurting anyone as I ran against them with my lil dretch or bounced around them madly sparking up with my advanced marauder.
Nice game and I can easily see why lots of people enjoy it but I'm afraid I don't think it's for me sadly :)
<!--quoteo(post=1594289:date=Jan 2 2007, 10:54 PM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Jan 2 2007, 10:54 PM) [snapback]1594289[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> (Natural Selection IS a standalone executable, unless my ns.exe is a lie. You might be thinking standalone GAME, but that would require an engine, and NS is a goldsrc game, which means the engine is not free). <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NS is not a standalone executable, silly. All the NS code is in .DLLs. Unless my entire life is a lie, or you renamed your hl.exe to ns.exe or osmething.
Maybe someday long ago, I added a -nsmod or whatever parameter to a hl.exe. Either way I've launched it from Steam ever since Steam started up so it hasn't been an issue for me for years now.
Tremulous is meant to be the q3 version of q2's <a href="http://www.planetgloom.com" target="_blank">gloom</a>. Its based on team deathmatch with a HINT of strategy. Its in no way meant to be like natural selection. As a matter of fact, NS is based off the game gloom, so is tremulous. All of the development team is from the gloom community, most of which I know myself from when I use to play gloom. Their target was to make a freeware q3 version of gloom while Team Reaction made their (at the time) q3 version, which is now going to the doom 3 version.
In short: Tremulous/Gloom: Deathmatch Strategy. Natural Selection: All strategy.
Comments
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the only time I told someone to read the manual was when the person was 100% clueless about the game and wanted to know how to change weapons. I also told him how.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just because you did it, changes nothing. There's more, but I think you get the point.
The problem as I see it, is some games attract more pissants than others. I'm sure some will agree that CS is a good example. We've all played CS, and we aren't all retards, by any means, now are we? No, because we like NS. There are still alot of retards in CS. Ergo, all CS players are retards.
As for why I don't play NS--I stopped because my computer doesn't handle Steam well. It handled HL, CS, WON, just fine. But after steam I get literal command lag when trying to play games online (and offline.) It's frustrating to know what you want to do, but get to watch helplessly as your computer refuses to let you.
Out of touch.
<!--QuoteBegin-"Norfenstein"+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("Norfenstein")</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I was expecting their thread to be really flamey and ignorant but it actually just turned into a discussion about manuals and helping new players in games. I know Timbo likes forum drama, but if anyone replies I hope it'll just be to point them toward the strategy guides floating around, the wikis, and most importantly my <a href="http://tremulous.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2905" target="_blank">what's missing from the manual?</a> topic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll try to find the different strategy guides and stuff that would help you change your view.
<a href="http://tremulous.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1049" target="_blank">http://tremulous.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1049</a>
<a href="http://tremulous.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=394" target="_blank">http://tremulous.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=394</a>
<a href="http://tremulous.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=559" target="_blank">http://tremulous.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=559</a>
ah, here are the 2 tremulous wiki thingys.
<a href="http://trem.maci.ws/pmwiki/pmwiki.php" target="_blank">http://trem.maci.ws/pmwiki/pmwiki.php</a>
<a href="http://www.tremwiki.com/" target="_blank">http://www.tremwiki.com/</a>
And please, if you see the tremulous forum's "mirror thread" of this, don't be offended by our regular troll.
Hope i helped somebody out there, and made the gap between trem and ns communities smaller, although that might be a tad too much to hope.
Edit: typo <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Don't worry, some of us don't really have any 'allegiances' when it comes to games. I'm sure trem has many nice players like NS and equally as many clowns... I prefer to judge people as people rather than lassoing them all into affiliated groups :3
Funny thing about off-topic here is that a lot of us haven't even played NS for aaaaages. I certainly haven't touched it for over a year by now, maybe more ^^
you never know... I might stop playing my new wii and 360 long enough to boot up this old cranky PC with a game of Tremulous to see what I'm missing someday :D
And yeah, I really think I should try that game again once I get back from the christmas holiday.
Hell, I have no idea what a Natural Selection player would even need a manual for. Unless the game has changed fundamentally since the first release version that I played, it shouldn't take an NS player more than half an hour to learn the basics. I mean, the similarities are quite apparent. The basic premise of "kill enemy, evolve/buy equipment, kill more enemy" is quite similar to NS Combat. I dunno, I don't see why the game would be that difficult to figure out.
Tremmers are all looking forward to 1.2, and maybe some new players from here and elsewhere.
Added: NS also has innovative map design from what I can tell. Now I am excited.
With NS, you have a commander who takes on all the strategizing duties, because he's free from the task of having to fight. This allows a coherent strategy to be implemented and it gives a centralized place from which orders originate; nobody argues with the commander because he's the boss, and if you don't do what he says you'll be ostracized. If you don't like his commanding, you're more than free to do it yourself or get someone else to do it, but either way the marines always have the benefit of an organized leadership. The aliens work like any other FPS team; maybe someone will take charge, maybe they won't, but there's little recourse if someone doesn't care to follow the plan and little structure for said plan to originate from.
If you like Tremulous' way, go ahead and play it. Nobody is going to mind. If you like Natural Selection, then you're more than welcome; it's an awesome mod. If you like both, play both. They're not mutually exclusive. You seem a little hostile to NS right now, with criticisms that I've never heard before and can't quite understand (Natural Selection IS a standalone executable, unless my ns.exe is a lie. You might be thinking standalone GAME, but that would require an engine, and NS is a goldsrc game, which means the engine is not free). Whatever happens, though, NS will always be there if you want to try it. And soon (well not exactly soon), we'll have NS2 too.
Thanks. I searched the forum at steam and it suggested that it was iffy. This is a plus for tremulous as it is executable standalone and NS is not. I think I will make a list of my comparisons between the two and post them both places. One thing I have to note is the top down view command. I am not sure how good of an idea this is going into the game since one person seemes to take a force-able command position, whereas in tremulous, I just suggest an idea and people say yes or no.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do remember that in NS, there are two gamemodes . Combat or CO_ which is made for short, intense games that do not have any RTS elements in them at all and NS Classic or NS_ which is what Natural Selection is all about - the fusion of FPS and RTS.
If you'd like, I'd be happy to show you the ropes of the game. I primarily use Xfire for gaming, so you can add "spinviper" to your Xfire buddy list. Do not hesitate to bring any of your other Tremulous buddies along.
Good luck and I do hope you enjoy Natural-Selection.
Spinviper, Thank you for helping explain parts of the game to me yesterday. I may be on today but It will most likely be on a dial up connection. (Time Warner refuses to service me).
To lolfighter: in tremulous, there is a power constraint for each of the bases (creep for aliens) and each structure takes up some ammout of power. Each human has credits to buy stuff with at the armoury and each alien has evolution points to become a stronger alien with. Only a human with an Advanced/Reg construction kit or the Adv/Reg granger can build structures. The more kills a team gets gets them closer to getting upgrages in stages. Generally stae 3 aliens should win unless the humans have moved their base into a tyrant inaccessable place or the alien team are pansies. If the humans have stage 2 first then they have a window in which ti take the game. My advice on players to avoid are Mortie and Popupman. Do not play on Popupman's server <i>ever</i>. The last time I was there he set humans at stage 4. Since there are no settings for stage 4, humans could not build anything or buy anything.
I hope that also helps anyone who is interested in tremulous.
It seems like a good game but I don't think it appeals to my own personal tastes really. I was a big fan of AvP and I enjoyed NS but trem seems more fast paced than NS (I preferred NS's more casual pace and greater focus on capturing things over frags for resources) and it doesn't quite have the same airy silly fun feel that AvP somehow captured for me (but then again almost no game ever has :p ).
I felt oddly detatched from what was going on and wasn't often really all that aware if I was hurting anyone as I ran against them with my lil dretch or bounced around them madly sparking up with my advanced marauder.
Nice game and I can easily see why lots of people enjoy it but I'm afraid I don't think it's for me sadly :)
(Natural Selection IS a standalone executable, unless my ns.exe is a lie. You might be thinking standalone GAME, but that would require an engine, and NS is a goldsrc game, which means the engine is not free).
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NS is not a standalone executable, silly. All the NS code is in .DLLs. Unless my entire life is a lie, or you renamed your hl.exe to ns.exe or osmething.
In short:
Tremulous/Gloom: Deathmatch Strategy.
Natural Selection: All strategy.