<!--quoteo(post=1595484:date=Jan 6 2007, 09:32 AM:name=Firewater)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Firewater @ Jan 6 2007, 09:32 AM) [snapback]1595484[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> NSA will kick for reserve slots, as donators are promised priority access to the game server. I'm sorry but thats how a majority of NS communities have setup their reserve slot system, and thats most likely how its going to continue. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This pretty much ensures I, and quite a few other regs I know will never play on this server. While finances have to be taken into account, and rewarding contributors is grand, this is one of the fastest ways of alienating people that I know of. Being removed from a fantastic game and the drop of a hat, due to lack of means to give a monetary donation is unfortunate. Regular players contribute to the community in a different, but wholly important fashion.
Also, while with other games such as CS, slot kicking isn't nearly as game crushing as it is with NS. Losing your fade/comm/hive gorge not only ruins the persons game who was kicked, but potentionally the teams.
Well, as I've said. The majority of successful communities do a reserve slot type of system like G4b2s, which happens to be the most popular server right now.
I think you are making reserve slots out to be a bigger culprit than what they are. If reserve slots are that much of an issue, then donate the 7 or 8 dollars a month it takes to get a reserve slot. Its not alienating people socially at all. Our contributors from what I've known have never been arrogant or cocky because they donate for a reserve slot.
Again, having a great core community is awesome but without the server bills being paid, all the people who are social magnets will use their talents elsewhere is instead of with our server.
We have had quite a few people mention about donating for reserve slots, and at the present time we are looking out for people who are seeing the server and looking to reward them with a 3 month reserve slot to ALL of our servers.
Doesn't the OldF server offer up reserve slots as well? Kind of hypocritical no?
OldF's reserve system doesn't kick people. People without reserve slots might not be able to join, but at least they won't be given the boot suddenly in the middle of a game.
<!--quoteo(post=1597219:date=Jan 10 2007, 03:18 PM:name=Firewater)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Firewater @ Jan 10 2007, 03:18 PM) [snapback]1597219[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Well, as I've said. The majority of successful communities do a reserve slot type of system like G4b2s, which happens to be the most popular server right now.
I think you are making reserve slots out to be a bigger culprit than what they are. If reserve slots are that much of an issue, then donate the 7 or 8 dollars a month it takes to get a reserve slot. Its not alienating people socially at all. Our contributors from what I've known have never been arrogant or cocky because they donate for a reserve slot.
Again, having a great core community is awesome but without the server bills being paid, all the people who are social magnets will use their talents elsewhere is instead of with our server.
We have had quite a few people mention about donating for reserve slots, and at the present time we are looking out for people who are seeing the server and looking to reward them with a 3 month reserve slot to ALL of our servers.
Doesn't the OldF server offer up reserve slots as well? Kind of hypocritical no? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
wow ... $8/mo to play a free game where there are lots of free servers? And LOTS of newer games to play instead of HL?
I never said nor implied that reserve slots were the problem. Kicking active players is the problem. Not everyone can afford to pay a monthly fee. They should not have their gaming experience jeopardized due to the fact that they are unable to make the monetary commitment. Contributors are great, they help keep the community alive, but money is not the only thing one can contribute to the community. Slot kicking quite literally punishes people who find themselves unable or unwilling to donate for server costs.
Since you brought it up, yes, OldF indeed does offer reserved slots. However, they are not purchased, but granted to players who deserve them based on what they do contribute to the community, not just donations. These slots do no kick either, but instead, the server is run at 16 public slots, with 4 hidden slots for reservists. Only those with reserved slots can connect when the server has 16 or more players.
<!--quoteo(post=1597266:date=Jan 10 2007, 05:50 PM:name=Nikon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Nikon @ Jan 10 2007, 05:50 PM) [snapback]1597266[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->These slots do no kick either, but instead, the server is run at 16 public slots, with 4 hidden slots for reservists. Only those with reserved slots can connect when the server has 16 or more players.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I've always considered this the best way of implementing reserved slots. It's also not that hard to setup.
<!--quoteo(post=1597254:date=Jan 10 2007, 04:29 PM:name=B0Z0)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(B0Z0 @ Jan 10 2007, 04:29 PM) [snapback]1597254[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> wow ... $8/mo to play a free game where there are lots of free servers? And LOTS of newer games to play instead of HL? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well as I said, it would grant access to all of our servers, present and future. We are looking to host maybe 4-5 different games, so it would grant access to all. We currently host 3 Different games right now.
Its not unreasonable because that was the fee that was charged back in the day. A lot of had 0 problem paying that fee.
<!--quoteo(post=1597220:date=Jan 10 2007, 03:21 PM:name=Underwhelmed)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Underwhelmed @ Jan 10 2007, 03:21 PM) [snapback]1597220[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> OldF's reserve system doesn't kick people. People without reserve slots might not be able to join, but at least they won't be given the boot suddenly in the middle of a game. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right, so you have your reserve slots setup to just not allow people to join at all? Without RS members, how does your server fill up?
Me personally, I would rather run the risk (as I have in the past) to risk getting kicked by a reserve slot to play on a server I know that a lot of the time will allow me to enjoy a quality game. Eventually what I did do what get the 3 month plan because I enjoyed playing on the server (NSarmslab) that much. Now I am primary contributor to NSAgames/NSArmslab, after enjoying those experiences on their game servers. Of course a single testimonial should not make or break an arguement, but there have been several community members asking about reserve slots and what the pricing is.
I'm sorry but we are willing to take the risk that you and the "other players" that you have mentioned are not going to be enjoying our server over a simple reserve slot.
Reinstate the liason program; NSA used to be fun because it was the unofficial clanner server with a higher level of play. This was a unique phenomenon in NS pubs, and people flocked to the server and kept it full all the time. The removal of liasons led to ishtier and ishtier games, and as a consequence the player base gradually left and the server died.
1) I disagree with the fall of the liason program causing the dismay of the server. I feel correlation there shaky at best.
2) Clan scene pretty much punching its last ticket, as much as that sucks, its a reality. Ergo, there wouldn't be that many clanners there to begin because most of the teams have died since NSA was its peak.
Maybe we will keep it around despite those facts, but we have to see first if we can maintain the server population. Then we will see about any sort of bonus programs and what not.
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
The fact that NSarmslab typically has a much high skill level (and bs 0!) is a MAJOR factor in me loving the server. It's what NS is meant to be. tThere is actual teamwork there, and commanders that don't suck!
Yeah but the clan scene only makes up a small population of the server. I don't think the influence is as great as you make it out to be simply because the server is filling up without the liason program.
Firewater, the alternative reserved slot system people are talking about keeps hidden slots open for reserved slot users that other players cant use. IE Yo-clan where when all slots are filled the server runs at 19/18 capacity, which will then drop as players leave and non-contributors can't join on the nineteenth slot. I find it works well since it avoids the problem of onos and fades and people just evolving to drop hives getting kicked, while most of the time leaving a slot open for those who contribute.
I'd also argue that it's superior to the system that G4B2S uses, as it allowes for queuing to the server without meeting the dreaded "Dropped due to reserved slot" message that everyone hates.
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
There is no other way to do reserved slots really. Kick based slots in any game are a really bad idea. If you want kick based slots though, there's an NS specific plugin that priorities expendable roles over the more critical roles.
<!--quoteo(post=1597266:date=Jan 10 2007, 09:50 PM:name=Nikon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Nikon @ Jan 10 2007, 09:50 PM) [snapback]1597266[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> These slots do no kick either, but instead, the server is run at 16 public slots, with 4 hidden slots for reservists. Only those with reserved slots can connect when the server has 16 or more players. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NSA needs to IMPLEMENT this ASAP. 24 max players with 4-8 hidden/reserved slots. Don't kick people off of NSA for joining the game. That has made me angry at least 5-6 times. Onos, fades, lerks....all lost b/c I got kicked. Who loses? The aliens do b/c all of a sudden one of their higher lifes..ain't there anymore.
I disagree with needing to implement it ASAP simply because the reserve slot system worked extremely well as it did in the past, and other popular servers do not have an issue with a kicking reserve slot. Also Master PTG, you are assuming that everytime the reserve slot is going to kick someone that is vital to the team. That is simply not true. The best solution for you right now is to seed the server for a week or two, then be rewarded with a free reserve slot for 3 months. After that time you can either continue your subscription, or not if you choose.
<!--quoteo(post=1597570:date=Jan 11 2007, 10:21 AM:name=tjosan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tjosan @ Jan 11 2007, 10:21 AM) [snapback]1597570[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Firewater, the alternative reserved slot system people are talking about keeps hidden slots open for reserved slot users that other players cant use. IE Yo-clan where when all slots are filled the server runs at 19/18 capacity, which will then drop as players leave and non-contributors can't join on the nineteenth slot. I find it works well since it avoids the problem of onos and fades and people just evolving to drop hives getting kicked, while most of the time leaving a slot open for those who contribute.
I'd also argue that it's superior to the system that G4B2S uses, as it allowes for queuing to the server without meeting the dreaded "Dropped due to reserved slot" message that everyone hates. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well if its so superior how come the major NS communities (few that exist) are currently not using them?
G4b2s and TG use similar systems to the best of my knowledge are they are the top communities right now.
Firewater man, you seem to be on the defensive here. It's clear that the old strategy of NSA hasn't worked for a while. yet you seem to not take on board the ideas of the others.
In regard to current server popularity, may I point you towards this link:
On our server at YO Clan we have a 24 slot server with 6 slots hidden, so it appears as if we have an 18 player server. When players join with reserved slots, the server doesn't need to kick anyone. Kicking someone who has been playing the game for a while and enjoying it would make them think twice about playing on the server again, never mind paying for it.
I understand totally what your saying, you just might need to think of a new gameplan and take on baord some of the advice for NSA to keep it running. The old ways have clearly stopped working. Time to figure out a new way. Good luck mate. I'll be helping fill her up when I can.
Well I dunno Firewater. Perhaps I was being kind <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />. I $%#$'ing get REALLY #$%'ing angry when I get kicked off a server. lol. I rage like a little girl whoz doll's head just popped off and went flying into a blackhole.
Seriously though, Firewater, the point is that you would lose nothing if you implemented this system. The people who have reserved slots would still be able to join. The server would be improved by not kicking people who were already connected having fun. The server would not #$%# me off, so I'd be more willing to play on it.
One of the main reasons I registered on the TG forums is so that I wouldn't get kicked off the server for being a ?mark person. So I registered... But I'm not going to spend my $$ just so that I don't get kicked. I don't think that's very nice. ie, whatever servers do that can go #$%# themselves b/c I'm not going to give them any money.
However, I'd at least think about it if the server allowed a reserved slot and didn't kick people off when I joined. I think everyone who donates to NSA should have a guilt trip b/c if they join and kick someone else off whoz important to the team...they've hurt the team a lot. This is a team game.
If I'm going to waste my life playing a video game, I want to do it efficiently. If I'm getting kicked off a server b/c some other ###### donated some of their money, then I'm personally going to add a vendetta against that server.
Seriously...every server I've seen in TFC that has clanners play on it, doesn't kick peeps. It just has hidden slots like the Yo dudes were saying. 20/17 guys on a server may reduce the amount of the people who can easily get in the server, but I think that would be a MUCH better game environment than one that randomly kicks people off to make room for others. ...seriously.
<!--quoteo(post=1597587:date=Jan 11 2007, 08:46 AM:name=Firewater)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Firewater @ Jan 11 2007, 08:46 AM) [snapback]1597587[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Well if its so superior how come the major NS communities (few that exist) are currently not using them?
G4b2s and TG use similar systems to the best of my knowledge are they are the top communities right now. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I thought you were above that sort of mentality, but apparently I was wrong. Lets not turn this into a popularity contest (And even if it were one, NSA would not win it). Some of the best games I've played are on OldF (And no, I don't have a reserve slot on there). I don't know about other people, but for me, being kicked due to some slot reservation program in the middle of a game is a lot more annoying than not being able to join the server at all. At least I don't have to invest time into a game that I won't play to completion. There is no benefit the G4B2S system really has over the other one, except maybe being able to play a game of 15 vs 15 unreserved players instead of 13 vs 13.
and just btw: 16 slot server + 4 hidden = 20 slot. 16players is imho the best for public, every additional slot (or guy who joins) is tooo much imho. But I'd say "Ok" because hopefully the server wouldn't always run at 20 slot all the time because not that much ppl have an reserved slot (??). It wouldnt necessarily be a 20 slot server, it would be more a 16 slot server. Thats also positive to me! (and i guess for many others awell. I dont even look at 20+ slot servers its just toooo much)
Well underwhelmed,often times when a person wants to emulate the success of other communities success, they usually have to emulate some of the things that bring them success.
If you feel that is not meeting your standards, then I apologize. The server is for everyone to play on, donations for reserve slots is a way of saying thank you. I don't think 4 hidden slots will cut it with the amount of players asking to become a reserve slot members again, but then again I could be wrong as I am new at this and I am trying to figure out what is best for the community. I am just going by what a lot of successful communities have done now, and in the past.
We may institute the liasion program again, as I am currently researching how the past admins felt about it. If they feel it was worthwhile then perhaps we will continue with them.
As of right now, reserve slots are not an issue because we are not ready to take donations. This will probably continue to the next the month or two as we square away our site features, forums, and donation system. So for right now anyone who just wants to enjoy a good game, should be able to without any hiccups.
Also, it is possible to earn a reserve slot by seeding the server. Those slots will be granted by the time we are ready to hand out reserve slots again.
<!--quoteo(post=1597717:date=Jan 11 2007, 07:43 PM:name=tjosan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tjosan @ Jan 11 2007, 07:43 PM) [snapback]1597717[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> You're a funny guy Firewater. The most successful NS communities at the moment use exactly the system you say you won't use.
But hey, if you think prestigue in this thread is more important than your community then go ahead... <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I believe I said its possible I could be wrong. That I am just going by what I know as of right now. 4 hidden slots may not be enough, maybe it is.
I've also said that reserve slots will not be in effect for ATLEAST one month. Meaning as of right now, reserve slots are a non-issue.
I can only go by what past successful communities have done, and what the current ones do. I have no ego when it comes to developing the community, so I guess the "prestigue" or whatever that word is can be thrown out the window. I just want whats best for the server.
While I do agree that changes have to be made to undo the damage that destroyed the community, I need more than anecdotal information and personal attacks. Some people have cited some statistics, most have not. The hard evidence is what we are going to be using when making the decision about reserve slots, not people raging that they got kicked, or bitter competitive players leaving snide, worthless remarks.
It seems that you are more interested in personally attacking me, then reading what is actually being said. I would ask that if you have nothing of value to contribute to this thread, please take whatever gripe you have with me or NSAgames/NSArmslab either privately here, or on the NSArmslab.com forums. ------------------------------------------------------ As far as the stats go with regards to YO Clan, while I do think it is of some significance that your server is currently ranked #2 in the NSP category, there are only a handful of NSP servers up right now compared to regular NS, so until both our servers are tested on "even ground" (i.e. least amount of controlable variables that conflict possible) I need to take those statistics with a grain of salt. I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm saying that there is a slight chance that maybe the statistics that you cited are a little misleading, because we cannot compare our servers on even ground.
Also, there has to be more to your community than that reserve slot system you are promoting. THAT is the kind of information I am interested in, as reserve slots are not even an issue until the "return" is complete.
I think the fact that money with us, doesn't get you a res slot is a key factor. If you donate to us, it's of your own free will to help the server keep going. You get a in-game icon to say thank you. Thats it.
The regular players get rewarded with the regs nights I told you about before, they get voted on by the admins every month and the highest votes get in. They get an special 'Regs' icon and access to the server on those nights. It's a sense of pride as they have the trust of the admins. Not to mention how people sit and wait for regs to finish so they can get on. It invokes a sense of 'omg I must become a Reg ASAP' as we often play custom made YO maps and fun games.
YO Clan ourselves (the admins) pay for our server costs. We own our own server outright and meerly pay per annum for bandwidth costs and divide it between us. it's cheaper than WoW to run per person and we get to give back to the community.
I hope some of this helps. If it doesn't, good luck man.
P.S U should seriously run 3.2 Beta 2. People don't want to play the old version (we find anyway).
So regular status is based on social approval rather than a monetary donation that mostly everyone has access to? I do not like that method as I've seen be abused in the past (think Lunixmonster). Your Regular nights, are worth taking a look at in more depth. Any information that goes on during reg nights would be appreciated.
We find that a lot of our players do not want to be beta testers, however I will host a poll on the forums as well as ask in game to see if the demand for 3.2 is relevant or not. The past couple of nights we have successfully filled the server, however, today the server died after peak time. We are currently looking for solutions for this problem. Something OTHER than reserve slots suggestions need to be suggested for the now, because the server may not be around when its time to open the reserve slot system again.
We tried to buy our own server box and get the bandwidth hosted but my research on that consisted of heavy bandwidth costs that were more expensive than our current provider charges for the server AND bandwidth.
I wanted to own my our server, especially since I work for Dell (any comments about that can be taken up in a PM) and I maybe able to get a discount on their servers. But the cost would be too much to bear for us. Perhaps down the road it would be more reasonable to do so, but as of right now it is not.
The way I see it, social approval helps generate and maintain a community. Yes it can be abused, but the regs do not have power. They only serve as our eyes and ears when an admin is not around. If they behave badly, they get removed from Regs. Such a thing is very rare.
However, some of the games we play are Hide & Seek or British Bulldogs. The first is self explanatory, the second is a game based on a British schoolyard game. Both are encouraging the players to be social and are a great deal of fun you can't have anywhere else.
How many admins do you have? You should have a few of them try and kick-start the server during peak-times.
<!--quoteo(post=1597765:date=Jan 11 2007, 09:24 PM:name=Obraxis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Obraxis @ Jan 11 2007, 09:24 PM) [snapback]1597765[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> The way I see it, social approval helps generate and maintain a community. Yes it can be abused, but the regs do not have power. They only serve as our eyes and ears when an admin is not around. If they behave badly, they get removed from Regs. Such a thing is very rare.
However, some of the games we play are Hide & Seek or British Bulldogs. The first is self explanatory, the second is a game based on a British schoolyard game. Both are encouraging the players to be social and are a great deal of fun you can't have anywhere else.
How many admins do you have? You should have a few of them try and kick-start the server during peak-times. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My concerns were that admins would only add people based on a certain for some that is unattainable, like the "popular kids" at your local high school. That has lead in the past to many people being more dissatisfied than being kicked for a reserve slot, and that very principle has lead to the destruction of some NS communities. You are right it has to be carefully regulated and it can certainly be effective, but I'd rather not have that responsibility, nor delegate it to any of our admins.
We currently have 5 active admins, I agree that we need more, and also that they should be filling the server at peak times. I've been trying to get a way from NS but the server tends to populate when I rally people on teamspeak, and then other players join. I'm trying to get to the point where my interaction with the NS server is minimal, but we are no where near that level yet.
I will start advertising for admins when I come home from work, as having a bunch of them populate the server would be beneficial.
Comments
NSA will kick for reserve slots, as donators are promised priority access to the game server. I'm sorry but thats how a majority of NS communities have setup their reserve slot system, and thats most likely how its going to continue.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This pretty much ensures I, and quite a few other regs I know will never play on this server. While finances have to be taken into account, and rewarding contributors is grand, this is one of the fastest ways of alienating people that I know of. Being removed from a fantastic game and the drop of a hat, due to lack of means to give a monetary donation is unfortunate. Regular players contribute to the community in a different, but wholly important fashion.
Also, while with other games such as CS, slot kicking isn't nearly as game crushing as it is with NS. Losing your fade/comm/hive gorge not only ruins the persons game who was kicked, but potentionally the teams.
I think you are making reserve slots out to be a bigger culprit than what they are. If reserve slots are that much of an issue, then donate the 7 or 8 dollars a month it takes to get a reserve slot. Its not alienating people socially at all. Our contributors from what I've known have never been arrogant or cocky because they donate for a reserve slot.
Again, having a great core community is awesome but without the server bills being paid, all the people who are social magnets will use their talents elsewhere is instead of with our server.
We have had quite a few people mention about donating for reserve slots, and at the present time we are looking out for people who are seeing the server and looking to reward them with a 3 month reserve slot to ALL of our servers.
Doesn't the OldF server offer up reserve slots as well? Kind of hypocritical no?
Well, as I've said. The majority of successful communities do a reserve slot type of system like G4b2s, which happens to be the most popular server right now.
I think you are making reserve slots out to be a bigger culprit than what they are. If reserve slots are that much of an issue, then donate the 7 or 8 dollars a month it takes to get a reserve slot. Its not alienating people socially at all. Our contributors from what I've known have never been arrogant or cocky because they donate for a reserve slot.
Again, having a great core community is awesome but without the server bills being paid, all the people who are social magnets will use their talents elsewhere is instead of with our server.
We have had quite a few people mention about donating for reserve slots, and at the present time we are looking out for people who are seeing the server and looking to reward them with a 3 month reserve slot to ALL of our servers.
Doesn't the OldF server offer up reserve slots as well? Kind of hypocritical no?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
wow ... $8/mo to play a free game where there are lots of free servers? And LOTS of newer games to play instead of HL?
Since you brought it up, yes, OldF indeed does offer reserved slots. However, they are not purchased, but granted to players who deserve them based on what they do contribute to the community, not just donations. These slots do no kick either, but instead, the server is run at 16 public slots, with 4 hidden slots for reservists. Only those with reserved slots can connect when the server has 16 or more players.
I've always considered this the best way of implementing reserved slots. It's also not that hard to setup.
wow ... $8/mo to play a free game where there are lots of free servers? And LOTS of newer games to play instead of HL?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well as I said, it would grant access to all of our servers, present and future. We are looking to host maybe 4-5 different games, so it would grant access to all. We currently host 3 Different games right now.
Its not unreasonable because that was the fee that was charged back in the day. A lot of had 0 problem paying that fee.
OldF's reserve system doesn't kick people. People without reserve slots might not be able to join, but at least they won't be given the boot suddenly in the middle of a game.
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Right, so you have your reserve slots setup to just not allow people to join at all? Without RS members, how does your server fill up?
Me personally, I would rather run the risk (as I have in the past) to risk getting kicked by a reserve slot to play on a server I know that a lot of the time will allow me to enjoy a quality game. Eventually what I did do what get the 3 month plan because I enjoyed playing on the server (NSarmslab) that much. Now I am primary contributor to NSAgames/NSArmslab, after enjoying those experiences on their game servers. Of course a single testimonial should not make or break an arguement, but there have been several community members asking about reserve slots and what the pricing is.
I'm sorry but we are willing to take the risk that you and the "other players" that you have mentioned are not going to be enjoying our server over a simple reserve slot.
1) I disagree with the fall of the liason program causing the dismay of the server. I feel correlation there shaky at best.
2) Clan scene pretty much punching its last ticket, as much as that sucks, its a reality. Ergo, there wouldn't be that many clanners there to begin because most of the teams have died since NSA was its peak.
Maybe we will keep it around despite those facts, but we have to see first if we can maintain the server population. Then we will see about any sort of bonus programs and what not.
I'd also argue that it's superior to the system that G4B2S uses, as it allowes for queuing to the server without meeting the dreaded "Dropped due to reserved slot" message that everyone hates.
These slots do no kick either, but instead, the server is run at 16 public slots, with 4 hidden slots for reservists. Only those with reserved slots can connect when the server has 16 or more players.
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NSA needs to IMPLEMENT this ASAP. 24 max players with 4-8 hidden/reserved slots. Don't kick people off of NSA for joining the game. That has made me angry at least 5-6 times. Onos, fades, lerks....all lost b/c I got kicked. Who loses? The aliens do b/c all of a sudden one of their higher lifes..ain't there anymore.
<!--quoteo(post=1597570:date=Jan 11 2007, 10:21 AM:name=tjosan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tjosan @ Jan 11 2007, 10:21 AM) [snapback]1597570[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Firewater, the alternative reserved slot system people are talking about keeps hidden slots open for reserved slot users that other players cant use. IE Yo-clan where when all slots are filled the server runs at 19/18 capacity, which will then drop as players leave and non-contributors can't join on the nineteenth slot. I find it works well since it avoids the problem of onos and fades and people just evolving to drop hives getting kicked, while most of the time leaving a slot open for those who contribute.
I'd also argue that it's superior to the system that G4B2S uses, as it allowes for queuing to the server without meeting the dreaded "Dropped due to reserved slot" message that everyone hates.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well if its so superior how come the major NS communities (few that exist) are currently not using them?
G4b2s and TG use similar systems to the best of my knowledge are they are the top communities right now.
Won't you be the best community, with superior servers and administrating?
In regard to current server popularity, may I point you towards this link:
<a href="http://www.game-monitor.com/search.php?game=nsp&order=grank" target="_blank">http://www.game-monitor.com/search.php?gam...amp;order=grank</a>
On our server at YO Clan we have a 24 slot server with 6 slots hidden, so it appears as if we have an 18 player server. When players join with reserved slots, the server doesn't need to kick anyone. Kicking someone who has been playing the game for a while and enjoying it would make them think twice about playing on the server again, never mind paying for it.
I understand totally what your saying, you just might need to think of a new gameplan and take on baord some of the advice for NSA to keep it running. The old ways have clearly stopped working. Time to figure out a new way. Good luck mate. I'll be helping fill her up when I can.
Seriously though, Firewater, the point is that you would lose nothing if you implemented this system. The people who have reserved slots would still be able to join. The server would be improved by not kicking people who were already connected having fun. The server would not #$%# me off, so I'd be more willing to play on it.
One of the main reasons I registered on the TG forums is so that I wouldn't get kicked off the server for being a ?mark person. So I registered... But I'm not going to spend my $$ just so that I don't get kicked. I don't think that's very nice. ie, whatever servers do that can go #$%# themselves b/c I'm not going to give them any money.
However, I'd at least think about it if the server allowed a reserved slot and didn't kick people off when I joined. I think everyone who donates to NSA should have a guilt trip b/c if they join and kick someone else off whoz important to the team...they've hurt the team a lot. This is a team game.
If I'm going to waste my life playing a video game, I want to do it efficiently. If I'm getting kicked off a server b/c some other ###### donated some of their money, then I'm personally going to add a vendetta against that server.
Seriously...every server I've seen in TFC that has clanners play on it, doesn't kick peeps. It just has hidden slots like the Yo dudes were saying. 20/17 guys on a server may reduce the amount of the people who can easily get in the server, but I think that would be a MUCH better game environment than one that randomly kicks people off to make room for others. ...seriously.
Well if its so superior how come the major NS communities (few that exist) are currently not using them?
G4b2s and TG use similar systems to the best of my knowledge are they are the top communities right now.
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I thought you were above that sort of mentality, but apparently I was wrong. Lets not turn this into a popularity contest (And even if it were one, NSA would not win it). Some of the best games I've played are on OldF (And no, I don't have a reserve slot on there). I don't know about other people, but for me, being kicked due to some slot reservation program in the middle of a game is a lot more annoying than not being able to join the server at all. At least I don't have to invest time into a game that I won't play to completion. There is no benefit the G4B2S system really has over the other one, except maybe being able to play a game of 15 vs 15 unreserved players instead of 13 vs 13.
16 slot server + 4 hidden = 20 slot.
16players is imho the best for public, every additional slot (or guy who joins) is tooo much imho.
But I'd say "Ok" because hopefully the server wouldn't always run at 20 slot all the time because
not that much ppl have an reserved slot (??). It wouldnt necessarily be a 20 slot
server, it would be more a 16 slot server. Thats also positive to me! (and i guess for many others awell. I dont even look at 20+ slot servers its just toooo much)
If you feel that is not meeting your standards, then I apologize. The server is for everyone to play on, donations for reserve slots is a way of saying thank you. I don't think 4 hidden slots will cut it with the amount of players asking to become a reserve slot members again, but then again I could be wrong as I am new at this and I am trying to figure out what is best for the community. I am just going by what a lot of successful communities have done now, and in the past.
We may institute the liasion program again, as I am currently researching how the past admins felt about it. If they feel it was worthwhile then perhaps we will continue with them.
As of right now, reserve slots are not an issue because we are not ready to take donations. This will probably continue to the next the month or two as we square away our site features, forums, and donation system. So for right now anyone who just wants to enjoy a good game, should be able to without any hiccups.
Also, it is possible to earn a reserve slot by seeding the server. Those slots will be granted by the time we are ready to hand out reserve slots again.
But hey, if you think prestigue in this thread is more important than your community then go ahead...
You're a funny guy Firewater. The most successful NS communities at the moment use exactly the system you say you won't use.
But hey, if you think prestigue in this thread is more important than your community then go ahead...
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I believe I said its possible I could be wrong. That I am just going by what I know as of right now. 4 hidden slots may not be enough, maybe it is.
I've also said that reserve slots will not be in effect for ATLEAST one month. Meaning as of right now, reserve slots are a non-issue.
I can only go by what past successful communities have done, and what the current ones do. I have no ego when it comes to developing the community, so I guess the "prestigue" or whatever that word is can be thrown out the window. I just want whats best for the server.
While I do agree that changes have to be made to undo the damage that destroyed the community, I need more than anecdotal information and personal attacks. Some people have cited some statistics, most have not. The hard evidence is what we are going to be using when making the decision about reserve slots, not people raging that they got kicked, or bitter competitive players leaving snide, worthless remarks.
It seems that you are more interested in personally attacking me, then reading what is actually being said. I would ask that if you have nothing of value to contribute to this thread, please take whatever gripe you have with me or NSAgames/NSArmslab either privately here, or on the NSArmslab.com forums.
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As far as the stats go with regards to YO Clan, while I do think it is of some significance that your server is currently ranked #2 in the NSP category, there are only a handful of NSP servers up right now compared to regular NS, so until both our servers are tested on "even ground" (i.e. least amount of controlable variables that conflict possible) I need to take those statistics with a grain of salt. I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm saying that there is a slight chance that maybe the statistics that you cited are a little misleading, because we cannot compare our servers on even ground.
Also, there has to be more to your community than that reserve slot system you are promoting. THAT is the kind of information I am interested in, as reserve slots are not even an issue until the "return" is complete.
I think the fact that money with us, doesn't get you a res slot is a key factor. If you donate to us, it's of your own free will to help the server keep going. You get a in-game icon to say thank you. Thats it.
The regular players get rewarded with the regs nights I told you about before, they get voted on by the admins every month and the highest votes get in. They get an special 'Regs' icon and access to the server on those nights. It's a sense of pride as they have the trust of the admins. Not to mention how people sit and wait for regs to finish so they can get on. It invokes a sense of 'omg I must become a Reg ASAP' as we often play custom made YO maps and fun games.
YO Clan ourselves (the admins) pay for our server costs. We own our own server outright and meerly pay per annum for bandwidth costs and divide it between us. it's cheaper than WoW to run per person and we get to give back to the community.
I hope some of this helps. If it doesn't, good luck man.
P.S U should seriously run 3.2 Beta 2. People don't want to play the old version (we find anyway).
We find that a lot of our players do not want to be beta testers, however I will host a poll on the forums as well as ask in game to see if the demand for 3.2 is relevant or not. The past couple of nights we have successfully filled the server, however, today the server died after peak time. We are currently looking for solutions for this problem. Something OTHER than reserve slots suggestions need to be suggested for the now, because the server may not be around when its time to open the reserve slot system again.
We tried to buy our own server box and get the bandwidth hosted but my research on that consisted of heavy bandwidth costs that were more expensive than our current provider charges for the server AND bandwidth.
I wanted to own my our server, especially since I work for Dell (any comments about that can be taken up in a PM) and I maybe able to get a discount on their servers. But the cost would be too much to bear for us. Perhaps down the road it would be more reasonable to do so, but as of right now it is not.
You can find out more about regs nights here:
<a href="http://www.yoclan.com/?page=regs" target="_blank">http://www.yoclan.com/?page=regs</a>
However, some of the games we play are Hide & Seek or British Bulldogs. The first is self explanatory, the second is a game based on a British schoolyard game. Both are encouraging the players to be social and are a great deal of fun you can't have anywhere else.
How many admins do you have? You should have a few of them try and kick-start the server during peak-times.
The way I see it, social approval helps generate and maintain a community. Yes it can be abused, but the regs do not have power. They only serve as our eyes and ears when an admin is not around. If they behave badly, they get removed from Regs. Such a thing is very rare.
You can find out more about regs nights here:
<a href="http://www.yoclan.com/?page=regs" target="_blank">http://www.yoclan.com/?page=regs</a>
However, some of the games we play are Hide & Seek or British Bulldogs. The first is self explanatory, the second is a game based on a British schoolyard game. Both are encouraging the players to be social and are a great deal of fun you can't have anywhere else.
How many admins do you have? You should have a few of them try and kick-start the server during peak-times.
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My concerns were that admins would only add people based on a certain for some that is unattainable, like the "popular kids" at your local high school. That has lead in the past to many people being more dissatisfied than being kicked for a reserve slot, and that very principle has lead to the destruction of some NS communities. You are right it has to be carefully regulated and it can certainly be effective, but I'd rather not have that responsibility, nor delegate it to any of our admins.
We currently have 5 active admins, I agree that we need more, and also that they should be filling the server at peak times. I've been trying to get a way from NS but the server tends to populate when I rally people on teamspeak, and then other players join. I'm trying to get to the point where my interaction with the NS server is minimal, but we are no where near that level yet.
I will start advertising for admins when I come home from work, as having a bunch of them populate the server would be beneficial.