That restriction only makes sense with melee weapons though. Its terrible to have to deal with that while firing any sort of ranged weapon. The only way spores get around that is by remaining active for like 7 seconds while requiring only a 1/2 second firing window, and then you can get back to flying.
<!--quoteo(post=1600548:date=Jan 21 2007, 07:33 AM:name=Cxwf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cxwf @ Jan 21 2007, 07:33 AM) [snapback]1600548[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> That restriction only makes sense with melee weapons though. Its terrible to have to deal with that while firing any sort of ranged weapon.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Thats the whole point.
The dynamic NS sets is that you either have mobility or you have range. The whole reason JP is an issue is because it gets both at the same time.
For it to be balanced, it <b>should</b> be "terrible" at using both at the same time.
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
There will be no more changes to jetpack movement in 3.2, you're wasting everyones time continuing your JP I&S in this topic. It would be better for this 3.2 balance discussion to move your jetpack suggestions to I&S.
<!--quoteo(post=1600584:date=Jan 21 2007, 07:05 AM:name=puzl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(puzl @ Jan 21 2007, 07:05 AM) [snapback]1600584[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> There will be no more changes to jetpack movement in 3.2, you're wasting everyones time continuing your JP I&S in this topic. It would be better for this 3.2 balance discussion to move your jetpack suggestions to I&S. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> They are the obvious balance concern. Really the only one.
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
edited January 2007
That might be true, but the solution does not have to be with tweaks to the jp simulated physics. The balance concern with jetpacks is noted. If you want to propose solutions, then I&S is the place for it. When feedback discussions become design discussions they become a less than useful and rarely produce quality feedback.
yay puzl put his foot down, thats what you get for ###### about things in other betas <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
I just hope they arent "balanced" into the point where getting them or not getting them is pretty much the same deal as is most things nowadays :o
<!--quoteo(post=1600589:date=Jan 21 2007, 01:07 PM:name=puzl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(puzl @ Jan 21 2007, 01:07 PM) [snapback]1600589[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> That might be true, but the solution does not have to be with tweaks to the jp simulated physics. The balance concern with jetpacks is noted. If you want to propose solutions, then I&S is the place for it. When feedback discussions become design discussions they become a less than useful and rarely produce quality feedback. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I never wanted any restrictions on jps at all. my only concern was the speed of the aliens in 3.2. For example fades, lerks and upgraded celerity ability. If you want to reduce the speed, why not make celerity worth the upgrade?
<!--quoteo(post=1600589:date=Jan 21 2007, 01:07 PM:name=puzl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(puzl @ Jan 21 2007, 01:07 PM) [snapback]1600589[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> If you want to propose solutions, then I&S is the place for it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> What if you want to 'discuss' solutions? Since obviously there's more than one path to achieve a goal.
Best development discussions I've seen have been those that outline the goals, and then toss in every possible method to achieve those goals And see which one best fits all the major implementation concerns.
Noted, flames aren't useful. And often those inside development discussions get too attached to their methods, and forget the goals.
However weakening existing game equipment is something which should be implemented "Just right". And you can't get a common ground that covers all sides of an issue by using isolated declarations.
Since when do you have to nerf jp movement? Just put the cost back up, <i>at least</i>. It's an obvious concern with beta 2 balance, and the fixes are obvious to make since it's general consensus not to change its movement. Research time and/or cost, and/or drop cost. Simple.
<!--quoteo(post=1600707:date=Jan 21 2007, 09:53 PM:name=Splinter_Steve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Splinter_Steve @ Jan 21 2007, 09:53 PM) [snapback]1600707[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Since when do you have to nerf jp movement? Just put the cost back up, <i>at least</i>. It's an obvious concern with beta 2 balance, and the fixes are obvious to make since it's general consensus not to change its movement. Research time and/or cost, and/or drop cost. Simple. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, you don't even need to weaken JP at all. Thats just one approach. As mentioned, another method to solve things would be improving the aliens against JPs.
But come on, Already claiming general consensus without a discussion? Lol <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> Speak for yourself.
i dont want to see the cost go up on jetpacks, i want to see them changed. cost doesnt change things like co maps either.
maybe make firing while on a jetpack make you aim really bad. firing a big machine gun standing on the ground would be hard enough to aim, imagine being in the air where you have no feet on the gorund for stability, the gun would push you and the around a lot.
i believe jetpacks should be a tactical advantage for building high or shooting from high ground, NOT out moving the aliens and having perfect aim while doinng it. dont know if the dev's get this yet but alien movement abilities are much harder to use than jetpacks, and aliens also have to be in melee range to kill, with only one of them (fade) having a decent amount of health to be able to stay close for more than a second. it really is bs.
Well, another approach. Maybe make Lerk Spore cause the JP to malfunction breifly.
<!--coloro:#666666--><span style="color:#666666"><!--/coloro-->(Or hell, maybe do that for Parasite, Spit, and AcidRocket as well. Lol, Stomp could have a knockback effect for those in the air <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />)<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--quoteo(post=1600708:date=Jan 21 2007, 04:59 PM:name=GreyFlcn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GreyFlcn @ Jan 21 2007, 04:59 PM) [snapback]1600708[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Well, you don't even need to weaken JP at all. Thats just one approach. As mentioned, another method to solve things would be improving the aliens against JPs.
But come on, Already claiming general consensus without a discussion? Lol <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> Speak for yourself. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A jetpack change in movement is not coming any time soon as Puzl just said. "When feedback discussions become design discussions they become a less than useful and rarely produce quality feedback."
If everyone really wants to nerf jetpack movement then all I can say is "ugh". Just trying to be practical here, because otherwise it probably does belong in I&S and I don't see a thread there yet.
<!--quoteo(post=1600712:date=Jan 21 2007, 05:18 PM:name=GreyFlcn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GreyFlcn @ Jan 21 2007, 05:18 PM) [snapback]1600712[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Well, another approach. Maybe make Lerk Spore cause the JP to malfunction breifly. Or hell, maybe do that for Parasite, Spit, and AcidRocket as well.
Lol, Stomp could have a knockback effect for those in the air <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1600714:date=Jan 21 2007, 10:32 PM:name=Splinter_Steve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Splinter_Steve @ Jan 21 2007, 10:32 PM) [snapback]1600714[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> If everyone really wants to nerf jetpack movement then all I can say is "ugh".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Exactly, you have no clue about consensus, in favor or otherwise. So don't act like you do.
<!--quoteo(post=1600714:date=Jan 21 2007, 10:32 PM:name=Splinter_Steve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Splinter_Steve @ Jan 21 2007, 10:32 PM) [snapback]1600714[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> A jetpack change is not coming any time soon as Puzl just said. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> He also said it's a recognized issue in 3.2 that needs to be dealt with. It has to get solved sooner or later. Even if it is later.
<!--quoteo(post=1600715:date=Jan 21 2007, 05:46 PM:name=GreyFlcn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GreyFlcn @ Jan 21 2007, 05:46 PM) [snapback]1600715[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Exactly, you have no clue about consensus, in favor or otherwise. So don't act like you do. He also said it's a recognized issue in 3.2 that needs to be dealt with. It has to get solved sooner or later. Even if it is later. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A movement change, I mean. And while by your logic you have no clue either mind you, " Joined: 19-December 06". Trust me, I have a clue.
<!--quoteo(post=1600724:date=Jan 21 2007, 11:33 PM:name=Splinter_Steve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Splinter_Steve @ Jan 21 2007, 11:33 PM) [snapback]1600724[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> A movement change, I mean. And while by your logic you have no clue either mind you<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Obviously. I'm not making grand claims that I can know anything about any sort of consensus on Jetpacks.
The way to get that sort of knowledge is through significant discussion. And so far I haven't seen much on the subject.
maybe make firing while on a jetpack make you aim really bad. <b>firing a big machine gun standing on the ground would be hard enough to aim, imagine being in the air where you have no feet on the gorund for stability, the gun would push you and the around a lot.</b>
<b>i believe jetpacks should be a tactical advantage for building high or shooting from high ground, not for out moving the aliens and having perfect aim while doinng it</b>. dont know if the dev's get this yet but <b>alien movement abilities are much harder to use than jetpacks, and aliens also have to be in melee range to kill, </b>with only one of them (fade) having a decent amount of health to be able to stay close for more than a second. it really is bs. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i dont think the game is that far fetched to say you cant base things off of real life things. if you dont follow nature you are going to end up with a ###### game. say you made a game where its 1v5 all the time. nature balances itself out, the game doesnt. not balanced = ###### game.
Here's where I'd like to point out that the ns_metal marine spawn is a bit too open for the new, gimped fades/lerks (sufficient enough for a bundle of onoses, but it's pretty easy for level 3 weapons and armor marines with heavies to hang around and just mow down fades that attempt to swoop in all slow-like. Makes it feel all 1.04-ish, but I didn't think that's what we were going for anymore. I think the DC alteration might be a reason for this as well, since even with a gorge healing you it takes a pretty long time to get 950 health and 950 armor or whatever, with one DC slowly helping the gorge.
Maybe allow each DC to heal the player, but buildings can only be healed by one DC at a time? They feel really weak as a means of aiding frontline healing (I think retaining the anti-WOL effect, while still allowing it to help players would work). To avoid end-game bunkers you could just not allow chamber effects when there are no hives up or something (still allow for upgrades, just no supper fast stamina regen/cloak/heal).
...just pointing it out. It is nice for the marines that fades aren't unstoppable now, though.
<!--quoteo(post=1600793:date=Jan 22 2007, 03:07 AM:name=MrBananaMan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MrBananaMan @ Jan 22 2007, 03:07 AM) [snapback]1600793[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> i dont think the game is that far fetched to say you cant base things off of real life things. if you dont follow nature you are going to end up with a ###### game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" /> .... Anyways, just saying that "realism" arguements are an improper way to suggest gameplay balance. Since Realism is just Aesthetics, not Gameplay.
Now I think you could make an arguement based off of Gameplay Issues, For instance: <ul><li>"JP with a Rifle gets Range and Mobility at the same time. With the reduced mobility/defense of Fades/Lerks JPs aren't balanced anymore. And something should be done to balance things out. I think they should do [.........]"</li></ul>
i guess what could be said is if you havent followed natural laws form the begining, no matter how you much you try to balance things out you are never going to reach your goal. you have to look at your work on a deeper, simpler level.
i dont understand how anyone can look at the jp problem differently than having too much power than what can be accepted. in the case i was trying to explain, the power was in the form of fire power blowing you back in the air because of no stability. instead in this game, it doesnt do that which creates additional power.
dont try to tell me you cant use realism as a base of structure, because this game was made in our universe. its not past our universe or something, i t was made from it. everything that happens in the game has a potential to be come reality in the future.
things are connected deeper than any one of us can fully realize. thats why its best to mimic natures patterns and balance, because no matter how hard we try, we cant balance games perfectly ourselves.
<!--quoteo(post=1600810:date=Jan 21 2007, 11:22 PM:name=MrBen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MrBen @ Jan 21 2007, 11:22 PM) [snapback]1600810[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I say you're all ######gots and I joined before all of you so naaaaahhhh!!! <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1600810:date=Jan 21 2007, 09:22 PM:name=MrBen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MrBen @ Jan 21 2007, 09:22 PM) [snapback]1600810[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I say you're all ######gots and I joined before all of you so naaaaahhhh!!! <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
O'Rly?
I think 3.2 is as good as it's going to get without some major changes. In other words, I vote for release with a list for 3.3. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
to solve this "jps are overpowered" stuff, simply increase the celerity speed of lerk a bit again so that it isnt completly worthless... atleast a lerk should be 1/4 faster than a jper... (meele attack vs. backwardflight + shooting)
Please remind me again who is the caretaker of ns_veil and ns_eclipse. I seem to have forgotten, and I can't find it on the team page or anyone with a special icon stating that. hmmmmm
Comments
That restriction only makes sense with melee weapons though.
Its terrible to have to deal with that while firing any sort of ranged weapon.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats the whole point.
The dynamic NS sets is that you either have mobility or you have range.
The whole reason JP is an issue is because it gets both at the same time.
For it to be balanced, it <b>should</b> be "terrible" at using both at the same time.
There will be no more changes to jetpack movement in 3.2, you're wasting everyones time continuing your JP I&S in this topic. It would be better for this 3.2 balance discussion to move your jetpack suggestions to I&S.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They are the obvious balance concern. Really the only one.
I just hope they arent "balanced" into the point where getting them or not getting them is pretty much the same deal as is most things nowadays :o
That might be true, but the solution does not have to be with tweaks to the jp simulated physics. The balance concern with jetpacks is noted. If you want to propose solutions, then I&S is the place for it. When feedback discussions become design discussions they become a less than useful and rarely produce quality feedback.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I never wanted any restrictions on jps at all. my only concern was the speed of the aliens in 3.2. For example fades, lerks and upgraded celerity ability. If you want to reduce the speed, why not make celerity worth the upgrade?
If you want to propose solutions, then I&S is the place for it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What if you want to 'discuss' solutions?
Since obviously there's more than one path to achieve a goal.
Best development discussions I've seen have been those that outline the goals,
and then toss in every possible method to achieve those goals
And see which one best fits all the major implementation concerns.
Noted, flames aren't useful.
And often those inside development discussions get too attached to their methods, and forget the goals.
However weakening existing game equipment is something which should be implemented "Just right".
And you can't get a common ground that covers all sides of an issue by using isolated declarations.
Since when do you have to nerf jp movement? Just put the cost back up, <i>at least</i>. It's an obvious concern with beta 2 balance, and the fixes are obvious to make since it's general consensus not to change its movement. Research time and/or cost, and/or drop cost. Simple.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, you don't even need to weaken JP at all. Thats just one approach.
As mentioned, another method to solve things would be improving the aliens against JPs.
But come on,
Already claiming general consensus without a discussion? Lol <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Speak for yourself.
maybe make firing while on a jetpack make you aim really bad. firing a big machine gun standing on the ground would be hard enough to aim, imagine being in the air where you have no feet on the gorund for stability, the gun would push you and the around a lot.
i believe jetpacks should be a tactical advantage for building high or shooting from high ground, NOT out moving the aliens and having perfect aim while doinng it. dont know if the dev's get this yet but alien movement abilities are much harder to use than jetpacks, and aliens also have to be in melee range to kill, with only one of them (fade) having a decent amount of health to be able to stay close for more than a second. it really is bs.
Maybe make Lerk Spore cause the JP to malfunction breifly.
<!--coloro:#666666--><span style="color:#666666"><!--/coloro-->(Or hell, maybe do that for Parasite, Spit, and AcidRocket as well.
Lol, Stomp could have a knockback effect for those in the air <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />)<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Well, you don't even need to weaken JP at all. Thats just one approach.
As mentioned, another method to solve things would be improving the aliens against JPs.
But come on,
Already claiming general consensus without a discussion? Lol <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Speak for yourself.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A jetpack change in movement is not coming any time soon as Puzl just said. "When feedback discussions become design discussions they become a less than useful and rarely produce quality feedback."
If everyone really wants to nerf jetpack movement then all I can say is "ugh". Just trying to be practical here, because otherwise it probably does belong in I&S and I don't see a thread there yet.
<!--quoteo(post=1600712:date=Jan 21 2007, 05:18 PM:name=GreyFlcn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GreyFlcn @ Jan 21 2007, 05:18 PM) [snapback]1600712[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Well, another approach.
Maybe make Lerk Spore cause the JP to malfunction breifly.
Or hell, maybe do that for Parasite, Spit, and AcidRocket as well.
Lol, Stomp could have a knockback effect for those in the air
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The horror.
P.S. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/marine.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::marine::" border="0" alt="marine.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":angry:" border="0" alt="mad-fix.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> I'm using the internet!
If everyone really wants to nerf jetpack movement then all I can say is "ugh".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly, you have no clue about consensus, in favor or otherwise.
So don't act like you do.
<!--quoteo(post=1600714:date=Jan 21 2007, 10:32 PM:name=Splinter_Steve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Splinter_Steve @ Jan 21 2007, 10:32 PM) [snapback]1600714[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
A jetpack change is not coming any time soon as Puzl just said. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He also said it's a recognized issue in 3.2 that needs to be dealt with.
It has to get solved sooner or later. Even if it is later.
Exactly, you have no clue about consensus, in favor or otherwise.
So don't act like you do.
He also said it's a recognized issue in 3.2 that needs to be dealt with.
It has to get solved sooner or later. Even if it is later.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A movement change, I mean. And while by your logic you have no clue either mind you, " Joined: 19-December 06". Trust me, I have a clue.
thats debatable steve <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that's cool
now we're officially off topic GO NS FORUM GO MY ###### IS BIGGER
A movement change, I mean. And while by your logic you have no clue either mind you<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Obviously.
I'm not making grand claims that I can know anything about any sort of consensus on Jetpacks.
The way to get that sort of knowledge is through significant discussion.
And so far I haven't seen much on the subject.
maybe make firing while on a jetpack make you aim really bad. <b>firing a big machine gun standing on the ground would be hard enough to aim, imagine being in the air where you have no feet on the gorund for stability, the gun would push you and the around a lot.</b>
<b>i believe jetpacks should be a tactical advantage for building high or shooting from high ground, not for out moving the aliens and having perfect aim while doinng it</b>. dont know if the dev's get this yet but <b>alien movement abilities are much harder to use than jetpacks, and aliens also have to be in melee range to kill, </b>with only one of them (fade) having a decent amount of health to be able to stay close for more than a second. it really is bs.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Also, quoting yourself looks weird :O
<a href="http://himself.ytmnd.com/" target="_blank">http://himself.ytmnd.com/</a>
Maybe allow each DC to heal the player, but buildings can only be healed by one DC at a time? They feel really weak as a means of aiding frontline healing (I think retaining the anti-WOL effect, while still allowing it to help players would work). To avoid end-game bunkers you could just not allow chamber effects when there are no hives up or something (still allow for upgrades, just no supper fast stamina regen/cloak/heal).
...just pointing it out. It is nice for the marines that fades aren't unstoppable now, though.
i dont think the game is that far fetched to say you cant base things off of real life things. if you dont follow nature you are going to end up with a ###### game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" /> ....
Anyways, just saying that "realism" arguements are an improper way to suggest gameplay balance.
Since Realism is just Aesthetics, not Gameplay.
Now I think you could make an arguement based off of Gameplay Issues,
For instance:
<ul><li>"JP with a Rifle gets Range and Mobility at the same time.
With the reduced mobility/defense of Fades/Lerks JPs aren't balanced anymore.
And something should be done to balance things out.
I think they should do [.........]"</li></ul>
i dont understand how anyone can look at the jp problem differently than having too much power than what can be accepted. in the case i was trying to explain, the power was in the form of fire power blowing you back in the air because of no stability. instead in this game, it doesnt do that which creates additional power.
dont try to tell me you cant use realism as a base of structure, because this game was made in our universe. its not past our universe or something, i t was made from it. everything that happens in the game has a potential to be come reality in the future.
things are connected deeper than any one of us can fully realize. thats why its best to mimic natures patterns and balance, because no matter how hard we try, we cant balance games perfectly ourselves.
I say you're all ######gots and I joined before all of you so naaaaahhhh!!!
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nerf ben in the next version plz.
I say you're all ######gots and I joined before all of you so naaaaahhhh!!!
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
O'Rly?
I think 3.2 is as good as it's going to get without some major changes. In other words, I vote for release with a list for 3.3. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
I've already said this over and over again...