Let's not forget that although they are mods, TFC, CS, and DoD have been officially "picked up" by ValvE. This sorta makes them "part" of HL's mainstream multiplayer.
I admit, HL's release multiplayer was a tad bland, but hey, I look at it this way: I can buy HL for 10 bucks, and play 5 different retail quality multiplayers plus 300+ some odd other mods, if I really wanted to go diggin.
Now, I'm not up on Halo's mod scene, but I'm guessing my 20 bucks for a copy of that game wouldn't get me all that. Though it WOULD get me sweet vehicles...
My vote.... half-life, but by a close margin. If it weren't for the mods and additional features with half-life, it would have been Halo. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> im inclined to agree, mostly <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Me too, but I would rate Halo's graphics much higher and its story would have to be an 11 for me, once you've read all the speculation injected into it at halo.bungie.org the story gets much more epic. And yes, that is fair to bring outside material in because you used mods in the multiplayer judgement.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Don't compare graphics/engine on games that have a time difference of more than 2 years... it isn't fair<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed, though if we are going to compare games 2 years apart, we might as well compare all aspects.. not just gameplay.
If we're going to talk about pacman vs half-life, I'd have to make a comment about graphics. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
edited April 2004
I don't understand this. Half-life comepletely reinvented the genre. Halo was a good me too product. Half-life changed the way stories are told in digital games. There is no comparison.
Edit: Halo already has almost as many votes within the first few hours as Diablo 2 got in its entire day of voting. I smell foul.
My vote.... half-life, but by a close margin. If it weren't for the mods and additional features with half-life, it would have been Halo. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> im inclined to agree, mostly <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Me too, but I would rate Halo's graphics much higher and its story would have to be an 11 for me, once you've read all the speculation injected into it at halo.bungie.org the story gets much more epic. And yes, that is fair to bring outside material in because you used mods in the multiplayer judgement. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I would rate same except SP Half Life as well (never ever liked Halo)
Graphics/Engine: I'm sure that if they were both out on same platform at the same time, HL would be slightly over or equivalent (comparing the time they were out)
seriously... half-life had a story? As far as I noticed the first couple of times I completed it was that things go wrong, aliens appear, omg saved it's the marines, omg not saved they're shooting us, lots of fighting, etc, omg xen jumping puzzles, g-man, cliched conspiracy, end.
Even then, most of that is 'gameplay'... in a kind of loose sense =P Halo on the other hand had me constantly wondering what was gonna happen next and like I said previously; I actually gave a simian about the characters ^^
Don't sit on nostalgia because it'll just bite your bum. Half-life wasn't THAT great =/ And the guy in the poll thingy who says HL has a better control system is probably smoking illegal substances; the halo controls are the most alarmingly natural-feeling ones I've dealt with in all my 19 odd years of gaming XD
Halo's singleplayer was pretty damn boring, and it had 5 years or so on HL. That's saying something. I admit, it was fun to **** with a friend during co-op about how bad the Library was, and how much the Flood sucked. And if we're talking about purely Halo and Half-Life, I'd vote for neither. HL's singleplayer was fairly stale too, I thought.
Halo's story line where you had a disastouras alien attack at the begining and had to fight as a totally uncliched bad as soldier and halfway through the game you find out the aliens you are fighting aren't the real enemy but there is a bigger badder group of aliens actually behind everything. But wait it had vehicles, yep story line definatly better.
Let's see the most amazing thing to come out of Halo multiplayer was Puma Launching.
BadKarmaThe Advanced Literature monsters burned my house and gave me a 7Join Date: 2002-11-12Member: 8260Members
<!--QuoteBegin-Geminosity+Apr 1 2004, 05:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Geminosity @ Apr 1 2004, 05:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> seriously... half-life had a story? As far as I noticed the first couple of times I completed it was that things go wrong, aliens appear, omg saved it's the marines, omg not saved they're shooting us, lots of fighting, etc, omg xen jumping puzzles, g-man, cliched conspiracy, end.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Ok poophead, let's sum up Halo like that.
seriously... <b>Halo</b> had a story? As far as I noticed the first couple of times I completed it was that things go wrong, aliens appear, omg saved it's the marines, omg not saved <b>they suck</b>, lots of fighting, etc, omg <b>endless exact same rooms</b>, <b> zombies </b>, cliched <b>race against timer</b>, end.
actually the nutshell version of halo is 'omg under attack, omg vin-diesel/arnie style cliched cool hero guy with a snazzy voice and not so cliched computer AI female companion, fight badguys, fight more badguys, new badguys appear but the old ones are still the enemy too (omg half-life did that one), find new friend, find out friend is a bit of a jerk trying to kill you and everything on halo, remember to late that the last bit was a spoiler, fight lots more, go back to the first level which is now all cool and wrecked, huuuuge jeep trail, end.'
seriously, chat about it all you want though, halo had character. I'm not silly enough to say 'omg halo was the best evar' because it wasn't, not by a long shot but I still consider it a much better SP game than the original HL and that's got sweet nothing to do with the graphics =P Halo has the MC, cortana, guiltyspark, that sarge guy who dies but appears in Halo 2 anyway, the chief guy who dies a rather icky looking death and so on. Even the AI allies you come across have a bit of liveleness to them, the whole story and game does.
Course, gamewise, bubblebobble completely owns them both and gunstar heroes, but neither the epic tale of big willy (name of the last boss in Bub and Bob's first adventure ^^; ) nor yellow's kidnapping only for green to try and redeem himself are really that big in the story departement. If halo and HL got written as books (well ok Halo did but skipping that) which one do you think would be the better read?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->and not so cliched computer AI female companion<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually that is pretty cliched. I don't know if I've ever read/seen/played through a story that had a computer companion that wasn't female... Hell, even when the computers aren't on your side they're female, Shodan?
<!--QuoteBegin-SkulkBait+Apr 1 2004, 06:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SkulkBait @ Apr 1 2004, 06:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Actually that is pretty cliched. I don't know if I've ever read/seen/played through a story that had a computer companion that wasn't female... Hell, even when the computers aren't on your side they're female, Shodan? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Dont tell anyone, but HAL9000 is also a chick computer.
<!--QuoteBegin-Geminosity+Apr 1 2004, 05:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Geminosity @ Apr 1 2004, 05:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> seriously... half-life had a story? As far as I noticed the first couple of times I completed it was that things go wrong, aliens appear, omg saved it's the marines, omg not saved they're shooting us, lots of fighting, etc, omg xen jumping puzzles, g-man, cliched conspiracy, end.
Even then, most of that is 'gameplay'... in a kind of loose sense =P Halo on the other hand had me constantly wondering what was gonna happen next and like I said previously; I actually gave a simian about the characters ^^
Don't sit on nostalgia because it'll just bite your bum. Half-life wasn't THAT great =/ And the guy in the poll thingy who says HL has a better control system is probably smoking illegal substances; the halo controls are the most alarmingly natural-feeling ones I've dealt with in all my 19 odd years of gaming XD <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Perhaps the story wasn't that great, but Half-Life was the first FPS to put together a 'seamless' experience.
<b>Halo</b> was an alright game, graphics were nice, and there was a hell of a lot of stuff to do, drive vehicles (namely tanks), and watch the not so pixelated blood gush out of your oppenents as in <b>Half-Life</b>.
But <b>Half-Life</b> retains that nostalgic type of affection that I think that most gamers love, plus, the levels in <b>Halo</b> were all the same to me, no distinction.
what has happened to the world? Halo and HL are not even on the same page. I cant belive Halo is actually winning. I guess the Xbox crowd is just too damn young to appriciate what HL did for gaming. This is a sad day for me.
::pouts in the corner::
Edit:
Well it seems like there might be some hacking going on.... <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=67245&st=15' target='_blank'>check this thread</a> for more info.
PulseTo create, to create and escape.Join Date: 2002-08-29Member: 1248Members, Constellation
edited April 2004
<!--QuoteBegin-TommyVercetti+Apr 1 2004, 12:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TommyVercetti @ Apr 1 2004, 12:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It has the best FPS AI since Half-Life's grunts. Maybe you're just playing on normal? Legendary makes them smart. And it's not Bungie's fault that Halo was rushed out, it was Micro$oft with their Xbox. They had originally planned to make the Flood AI just as smart as the Covenant's, but ran out of time and gave them a simple Serious Sam type behaviour. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The AI in Halo is average on every difficulty. Elites know how to strafe, and they know how to do it well, but that is about all they know. If you go out of their sight, they just stand there, they have no concept of teamwork, and as far as they are concerned, they make up the entire covenant armada. They throw grenades, but instead of using them to flush you out of cover, they just do it at random. Their idea of "running away" is to find the nearest rock and wait for you to run up and smack them with your gun. The only difference between the AI in normal and legendary is that they "hide" less often.
The AI for every other creature in Halo is either "run around in circles and shoot at master chief every once and a while" or "run towards master chief and try to shoot him" The AI for vehicles seems to be "Fly towards master chief and shoot at him, crashing into as many surfaces as possible along the way"
You've obviously not played Halo as long as I have, the Elites use cover much more effectively than the grunts ever did, hell they didn't even take cover. If a grenade lands near them they crouch for a few seconds then run. The Elites <i>do</i> use teamwork, I've been flanked countless times on Legendary by Covenant from one group who have split up. It doesn't matter what Half-Life did to the genre, someone would've come up with this pretty fast even if Valve never existed, it would probably have started as a innovative little mod and taken off from there. The impact of the game on the genre is moot, what matters is the actual gameplay and other factors affecting the amount of fun you have with it. Anyways, I'm done with this debate as it clearly cannot be won on the forums of a Half-Life mod.
If you never played either game (EVER) and you just got them today and played both. Which one would be more fun?
"Half-Life did this, and Halo did this, but Half-Life did this..." etc. doesn't help anything. Which one was more fun?
<!--QuoteBegin-Pulse+Apr 1 2004, 06:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Pulse @ Apr 1 2004, 06:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-TommyVercetti+Apr 1 2004, 12:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TommyVercetti @ Apr 1 2004, 12:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It has the best FPS AI since Half-Life's grunts. Maybe you're just playing on normal? Legendary makes them smart. And it's not Bungie's fault that Halo was rushed out, it was Micro$oft with their Xbox. They had originally planned to make the Flood AI just as smart as the Covenant's, but ran out of time and gave them a simple Serious Sam type behaviour. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The AI in Halo is average on every difficulty. Elites know how to strafe, and they know how to do it well, but that is about all they know. If you go out of their sight, they just stand there, they have no concept of teamwork, and as far as they are concerned, they make up the entire covenant armada. They throw grenades, but instead of using them to flush you out of cover, they just do it at random. Their idea of "running away" is to find the nearest rock and wait for you to run up and smack them with your gun. The only difference between the AI in normal and legendary is that they "hide" less often.
The AI for every other creature in Halo is either "run around in circles and shoot at master chief every once and a while" or "run towards master chief and try to shoot him" The AI for vehicles seems to be "Fly towards master chief and shoot at him, crashing into as many surfaces as possible along the way"<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now, on to this story and AI...
[Artificial Intelligence] [Half-Life] If you compare the two directly, Halo positively has better AI. Although differences between dificulties is based on damage and number of enemies, so you can't look at it in that way (although, with more enemies they do seem a little smarter).
On the back of the Half-Life box it claimed enemies would react to sight and sound (and smell - <span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>READ</span>: Enemy can see you through walls <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> ).
The weird Sound-dog things (whatever they are called, they send out the sonic pulse): They run toward you, generally in groups (because they're spawned/placed that way). They run right at you and set off their sonic thing...no strategy.
The alien grunts (that shoot electricity) had at least existant AI. They would chase you, sortof seem to work together. They wouldn't 'know' you were there unless they 'saw' you.
The bullsquids, they would chase you, but stay usually far enough away to spit.
The human grunts: They shot at you and ran around, not necesarilly for cover (but occasionally it seems like they're trying to get to cover, so I'll give it to them). Then they'll use grenades occasionally. They at least have minor flanking tactics.
Everything else just runs at you...Everything...head crabs, flying dudes that shoot yellow energy balls, snarks, gonarch, that shark thing, they come at you like some slow Serious Sam attack.
[Halo] The only comparison in Halo [spoiler] are the flood. Marines and Covenant both use at least minimal tactics [/spoiler] (actually, Hunters do it too, they're comparable to bullsquid, in pretty much every aspect (except they kill faster).
On basic sight/sound detection: The covenant definately have it. If you play the game there are multiple times when you can come across areas with sleeping grunts, where one will wake up, but if you hit it before it shoots or shouts no one will hear (how they don't hear the THWWWWWHACK is beyond me).
On this same aspect, you can flank the enemy, something that (because of AI or level design) you can't do in Half-Life. You can shoot a Jackal, run around a building and shoot/hit him in the back (sometimes you get spotted, depending on the cover or the Jackal's placement).
Elites have tactics. If you look for the Halo commentaries (I've seen them on some of the OXM discs, online somewhere too) you can see that Elites dynamically react with their vehicles. If you come on a ghost and get out, an Elite might get in it. Their combat is unscripted in every way, and every fight can turn out different [something that could happen in Half-Life, but was rare, usually the same tactic worked everytime].
If you throw a grenade, they'll dive out of the way, if you shoot near them they'll duck or strafe away, <i>looking for cover</i>. This easily seen with long distance sniping, something the grunts in HL do rarely if at all (they manage to block eachother quite often though).
Something touted, but that I rarely see in Halo is the ability to flush you out. They rarely use flanking manuevers that aren't designed into a level (2 alternate paths with enemies coming down both, thus they both eventually get to you). They'll throw grenades, but this just seems like "I want to kill you" and not "get out of there so I can kill you."
Obviously, Halo's AI is more advanced, although both are less than what they seem the first time you play it. (Halo 2, however, is supposed to have very dynamic AI with call for reinforcements and stuff, but I'm suspicious of how that works)
[Storyline] [basic]
You can stop saying everything is cliched right now. Someone in German 4 in high school was obsessed with the word cliche, and I don't even think she knew what it meant, she'd just go on with "that's so cliche" or, "don't do such cliched things"....bah.
Anything can be labelled a cliche, if it's been done before. That doesn't make it unoriginal. The designers for games, while possibly getting there information from where you think, didn't look through every game/movie/book in the universe for their ideas.
Half-Life - It was an excellent attempt at melding aspects of science (which are designed for the general public) with a good protagonist and story progression. Government conspiracy - how generic. A male protagonist - how cliched! A guy shooting things with guns - Holy crap! <i>Where's the originality!!!</i> Halo happens in space - Oops, seen that before!. Halo takes place on a ringworld - Man, they're just ripping stuff from books-it's-loosely-based-on all over the place!
Both stories are quite original and engaging - the only argumentitive point would be the flow of the story, which could arguably go both ways. Both of the stories go fairly slow (compared to an RPG or Max Payne 2 or something). I would put Halo slightly faster due to it's excellent ability to meld action into a story segment and pull it back into action - marred by an occasional period where you lose your vehicle/ got blown out of your vehicle/need to look for health. Similar things happen in Half-Life either way.
Half-Life was good for its intelligently integrated puzzles and (sortof) realistic storyline (A storyline that seems like it could happen, despite all the flaws that someone in touch with the intricacies would notice). The story was very rare and dribbled in slowly, much like it does in Halo, although the action/story splicing in Halo is much more refined.
There aren't any puzzles in Halo aside from how do I get back to the cool Jungle from this retarded place where there's 3 rooms that look alike and the only difference is that one of the light-bridges is broken...bah!
If you want true originality in the game: Halo's plasma weapons seem moderately viable (...as viable as a plasma based weapon could be, I suppose)...While Half-Life's are fairly realistic or moderately science based too. The weapons are quite different, but both are original and good in their respective storylines.
Hopefully I've illustrated some basic points and you people shouldn't be saying which game is better because of graphics/story/AI.
....doubt anyone reads all of that. I vote Halo, because based solely on multi-player (no co-op or mods) Halo is more fun, but it's still close.
Personally I don't think mods should come into consideration with this vote. Think about the original package - the game you bought inside the box. Which one was better then?
<!--QuoteBegin-Pulse+Apr 1 2004, 06:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Pulse @ Apr 1 2004, 06:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The AI for vehicles seems to be "Fly towards master chief and shoot at him, crashing into as many surfaces as possible along the way" <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'd like to directly refute this, as Ghosts driven by Elites rarely hit anything they don't intend to (as in, you jump out of the way and they hit a wall). Banshees are slightly differenty, as they require arcing paths to come around to strafe you again, so they tend to hit high up platforms.
<!--QuoteBegin-MedHead+Apr 1 2004, 08:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MedHead @ Apr 1 2004, 08:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Personally I don't think mods should come into consideration with this vote. Think about the original package - the game you bought inside the box. Which one was better then? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Part of the HL package was its easy modability.
coilAmateur pirate. Professional monkey. All pance.Join Date: 2002-04-12Member: 424Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
<!--QuoteBegin-MedHead+Apr 1 2004, 08:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MedHead @ Apr 1 2004, 08:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Personally I don't think mods should come into consideration with this vote. Think about the original package - the game you bought inside the box. Which one was better then? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, in as much as you shouldn't say "But NS is better than Halo!" I agree with you. However, to ignore mods is to ignore part of why Half-Life is so great. Quake 2 started the modding movement, but Half-Life blew it WIDE open with accessible tools and fantastic support from Valve. The ability to alter *everything* about Half-Life at will (and mods like Bumper Cars, HL Rally, NS, and ARCHL show just how modifiable it is) has made it and its mods the most popular first-person shooter (player-minute-wise) EVER. CS virtually invented a genre.
Half-Life was the FIRST FPS to really focus on telling a story in the SP setting. Do you remember the first time you started up DOOM? You were in a room. You went down the stairs, and ran into a zombie, which you attacked. The game continued from there. How about the first time you started up Half-Life? Slow fade in, and "...Welcome to the Black Mesa Automated Transit System." It was nothing we'd ever seen before... ever. You didn't meet so much as a headcrab until probably 15 minutes into the game, and I for one didn't find the intro annoying till about my 10th playthrough (not an exaggeration).
Half-Life changed the way the entire world looked at first-person shooters. It was called "Best Game of All-Time" by PC Gamer in Nov. 1999 (a year after it came out), and received "Game of the Year" awards in 1998 and 1999 from more than 50 different publications. FIFTY DIFFERENT PUBLICATIONS.
Halo's no slouch, but it was awarded Game of the Year in 2001 by only 10-15 publications (I'm discluding those that gave it "best of" in a limited category, e.g. "Best Xbox game" or "Best console FPS").
In my opinion, Half-Life did so much for the gaming industry that not giving it this win over Halo would be a travesty. Personally, I'm looking forward to SMB3 vs. Half-Life in the final, and have no clue which I'll vote for.
Comments
I admit, HL's release multiplayer was a tad bland, but hey, I look at it this way: I can buy HL for 10 bucks, and play 5 different retail quality multiplayers plus 300+ some odd other mods, if I really wanted to go diggin.
Now, I'm not up on Halo's mod scene, but I'm guessing my 20 bucks for a copy of that game wouldn't get me all that. Though it WOULD get me sweet vehicles...
Engine: Halo
Multiplayer: Half-life (very close call.. mods pushed it over)
Single player: Halo (very close I think)
Storyline: Half-life
Weapons: Half-life
Mods: Half-life (no contest)<!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
My vote.... half-life, but by a close margin. If it weren't for the mods and additional features with half-life, it would have been Halo. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
im inclined to agree, mostly <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Me too, but I would rate Halo's graphics much higher and its story would have to be an 11 for me, once you've read all the speculation injected into it at halo.bungie.org the story gets much more epic. And yes, that is fair to bring outside material in because you used mods in the multiplayer judgement.
Agreed, though if we are going to compare games 2 years apart, we might as well compare all aspects.. not just gameplay.
If we're going to talk about pacman vs half-life, I'd have to make a comment about graphics. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Edit: Halo already has almost as many votes within the first few hours as Diablo 2 got in its entire day of voting. I smell foul.
Engine: Halo
Multiplayer: Half-life (very close call.. mods pushed it over)
Single player: Halo (very close I think)
Storyline: Half-life
Weapons: Half-life
Mods: Half-life (no contest)<!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
My vote.... half-life, but by a close margin. If it weren't for the mods and additional features with half-life, it would have been Halo. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
im inclined to agree, mostly <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Me too, but I would rate Halo's graphics much higher and its story would have to be an 11 for me, once you've read all the speculation injected into it at halo.bungie.org the story gets much more epic. And yes, that is fair to bring outside material in because you used mods in the multiplayer judgement. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would rate same except SP Half Life as well (never ever liked Halo)
Graphics/Engine: I'm sure that if they were both out on same platform at the same time, HL would be slightly over or equivalent (comparing the time they were out)
Even then, most of that is 'gameplay'... in a kind of loose sense =P
Halo on the other hand had me constantly wondering what was gonna happen next and like I said previously; I actually gave a simian about the characters ^^
Don't sit on nostalgia because it'll just bite your bum. Half-life wasn't THAT great =/
And the guy in the poll thingy who says HL has a better control system is probably smoking illegal substances; the halo controls are the most alarmingly natural-feeling ones I've dealt with in all my 19 odd years of gaming XD
Let's see the most amazing thing to come out of Halo multiplayer was Puma Launching.
HL spawned CS, DoD, and NS.
yah....close call....real close...
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok poophead, let's sum up Halo like that.
seriously... <b>Halo</b> had a story? As far as I noticed the first couple of times I completed it was that things go wrong, aliens appear, omg saved it's the marines, omg not saved <b>they suck</b>, lots of fighting, etc, omg <b>endless exact same rooms</b>, <b> zombies </b>, cliched <b>race against timer</b>, end.
Bolded words are my edit
seriously, chat about it all you want though, halo had character. I'm not silly enough to say 'omg halo was the best evar' because it wasn't, not by a long shot but I still consider it a much better SP game than the original HL and that's got sweet nothing to do with the graphics =P
Halo has the MC, cortana, guiltyspark, that sarge guy who dies but appears in Halo 2 anyway, the chief guy who dies a rather icky looking death and so on. Even the AI allies you come across have a bit of liveleness to them, the whole story and game does.
Course, gamewise, bubblebobble completely owns them both and gunstar heroes, but neither the epic tale of big willy (name of the last boss in Bub and Bob's first adventure ^^; ) nor yellow's kidnapping only for green to try and redeem himself are really that big in the story departement. If halo and HL got written as books (well ok Halo did but skipping that) which one do you think would be the better read?
Actually that is pretty cliched. I don't know if I've ever read/seen/played through a story that had a computer companion that wasn't female... Hell, even when the computers aren't on your side they're female, Shodan?
Dont tell anyone, but HAL9000 is also a chick computer.
Even then, most of that is 'gameplay'... in a kind of loose sense =P
Halo on the other hand had me constantly wondering what was gonna happen next and like I said previously; I actually gave a simian about the characters ^^
Don't sit on nostalgia because it'll just bite your bum. Half-life wasn't THAT great =/
And the guy in the poll thingy who says HL has a better control system is probably smoking illegal substances; the halo controls are the most alarmingly natural-feeling ones I've dealt with in all my 19 odd years of gaming XD <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Perhaps the story wasn't that great, but Half-Life was the first FPS to put together a 'seamless' experience.
But <b>Half-Life</b> retains that nostalgic type of affection that I think that most gamers love, plus, the levels in <b>Halo</b> were all the same to me, no distinction.
::pouts in the corner::
Edit:
Well it seems like there might be some hacking going on.... <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=67245&st=15' target='_blank'>check this thread</a> for more info.
The AI in Halo is average on every difficulty. Elites know how to strafe, and they know how to do it well, but that is about all they know. If you go out of their sight, they just stand there, they have no concept of teamwork, and as far as they are concerned, they make up the entire covenant armada. They throw grenades, but instead of using them to flush you out of cover, they just do it at random. Their idea of "running away" is to find the nearest rock and wait for you to run up and smack them with your gun. The only difference between the AI in normal and legendary is that they "hide" less often.
The AI for every other creature in Halo is either "run around in circles and shoot at master chief every once and a while" or "run towards master chief and try to shoot him" The AI for vehicles seems to be "Fly towards master chief and shoot at him, crashing into as many surfaces as possible along the way"
GO HL WEWT!
HL IS WINNING BY 200 YYEEAAHh!
If you never played either game (EVER) and you just got them today and played both. Which one would be more fun?
"Half-Life did this, and Halo did this, but Half-Life did this..." etc. doesn't help anything. Which one was more fun?
<!--QuoteBegin-Pulse+Apr 1 2004, 06:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Pulse @ Apr 1 2004, 06:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-TommyVercetti+Apr 1 2004, 12:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TommyVercetti @ Apr 1 2004, 12:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It has the best FPS AI since Half-Life's grunts. Maybe you're just playing on normal? Legendary makes them smart. And it's not Bungie's fault that Halo was rushed out, it was Micro$oft with their Xbox. They had originally planned to make the Flood AI just as smart as the Covenant's, but ran out of time and gave them a simple Serious Sam type behaviour. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The AI in Halo is average on every difficulty. Elites know how to strafe, and they know how to do it well, but that is about all they know. If you go out of their sight, they just stand there, they have no concept of teamwork, and as far as they are concerned, they make up the entire covenant armada. They throw grenades, but instead of using them to flush you out of cover, they just do it at random. Their idea of "running away" is to find the nearest rock and wait for you to run up and smack them with your gun. The only difference between the AI in normal and legendary is that they "hide" less often.
The AI for every other creature in Halo is either "run around in circles and shoot at master chief every once and a while" or "run towards master chief and try to shoot him" The AI for vehicles seems to be "Fly towards master chief and shoot at him, crashing into as many surfaces as possible along the way"<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now, on to this story and AI...
[Artificial Intelligence]
[Half-Life]
If you compare the two directly, Halo positively has better AI. Although differences between dificulties is based on damage and number of enemies, so you can't look at it in that way (although, with more enemies they do seem a little smarter).
On the back of the Half-Life box it claimed enemies would react to sight and sound (and smell - <span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>READ</span>: Enemy can see you through walls <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> ).
The weird Sound-dog things (whatever they are called, they send out the sonic pulse): They run toward you, generally in groups (because they're spawned/placed that way). They run right at you and set off their sonic thing...no strategy.
The alien grunts (that shoot electricity) had at least existant AI. They would chase you, sortof seem to work together. They wouldn't 'know' you were there unless they 'saw' you.
The bullsquids, they would chase you, but stay usually far enough away to spit.
The human grunts: They shot at you and ran around, not necesarilly for cover (but occasionally it seems like they're trying to get to cover, so I'll give it to them). Then they'll use grenades occasionally. They at least have minor flanking tactics.
Everything else just runs at you...Everything...head crabs, flying dudes that shoot yellow energy balls, snarks, gonarch, that shark thing, they come at you like some slow Serious Sam attack.
[Halo]
The only comparison in Halo [spoiler] are the flood. Marines and Covenant both use at least minimal tactics [/spoiler] (actually, Hunters do it too, they're comparable to bullsquid, in pretty much every aspect (except they kill faster).
On basic sight/sound detection: The covenant definately have it. If you play the game there are multiple times when you can come across areas with sleeping grunts, where one will wake up, but if you hit it before it shoots or shouts no one will hear (how they don't hear the THWWWWWHACK is beyond me).
On this same aspect, you can flank the enemy, something that (because of AI or level design) you can't do in Half-Life. You can shoot a Jackal, run around a building and shoot/hit him in the back (sometimes you get spotted, depending on the cover or the Jackal's placement).
Elites have tactics. If you look for the Halo commentaries (I've seen them on some of the OXM discs, online somewhere too) you can see that Elites dynamically react with their vehicles. If you come on a ghost and get out, an Elite might get in it. Their combat is unscripted in every way, and every fight can turn out different [something that could happen in Half-Life, but was rare, usually the same tactic worked everytime].
If you throw a grenade, they'll dive out of the way, if you shoot near them they'll duck or strafe away, <i>looking for cover</i>. This easily seen with long distance sniping, something the grunts in HL do rarely if at all (they manage to block eachother quite often though).
Something touted, but that I rarely see in Halo is the ability to flush you out. They rarely use flanking manuevers that aren't designed into a level (2 alternate paths with enemies coming down both, thus they both eventually get to you). They'll throw grenades, but this just seems like "I want to kill you" and not "get out of there so I can kill you."
Obviously, Halo's AI is more advanced, although both are less than what they seem the first time you play it. (Halo 2, however, is supposed to have very dynamic AI with call for reinforcements and stuff, but I'm suspicious of how that works)
[Storyline]
[basic]
You can stop saying everything is cliched right now. Someone in German 4 in high school was obsessed with the word cliche, and I don't even think she knew what it meant, she'd just go on with "that's so cliche" or, "don't do such cliched things"....bah.
Anything can be labelled a cliche, if it's been done before. That doesn't make it unoriginal. The designers for games, while possibly getting there information from where you think, didn't look through every game/movie/book in the universe for their ideas.
Half-Life - It was an excellent attempt at melding aspects of science (which are designed for the general public) with a good protagonist and story progression. Government conspiracy - how generic. A male protagonist - how cliched! A guy shooting things with guns - Holy crap! <i>Where's the originality!!!</i> Halo happens in space - Oops, seen that before!. Halo takes place on a ringworld - Man, they're just ripping stuff from books-it's-loosely-based-on all over the place!
Both stories are quite original and engaging - the only argumentitive point would be the flow of the story, which could arguably go both ways. Both of the stories go fairly slow (compared to an RPG or Max Payne 2 or something). I would put Halo slightly faster due to it's excellent ability to meld action into a story segment and pull it back into action - marred by an occasional period where you lose your vehicle/ got blown out of your vehicle/need to look for health. Similar things happen in Half-Life either way.
Half-Life was good for its intelligently integrated puzzles and (sortof) realistic storyline (A storyline that seems like it could happen, despite all the flaws that someone in touch with the intricacies would notice). The story was very rare and dribbled in slowly, much like it does in Halo, although the action/story splicing in Halo is much more refined.
There aren't any puzzles in Halo aside from how do I get back to the cool Jungle from this retarded place where there's 3 rooms that look alike and the only difference is that one of the light-bridges is broken...bah!
If you want true originality in the game: Halo's plasma weapons seem moderately viable (...as viable as a plasma based weapon could be, I suppose)...While Half-Life's are fairly realistic or moderately science based too. The weapons are quite different, but both are original and good in their respective storylines.
Hopefully I've illustrated some basic points and you people shouldn't be saying which game is better because of graphics/story/AI.
....doubt anyone reads all of that. I vote Halo, because based solely on multi-player (no co-op or mods) Halo is more fun, but it's still close.
I'd like to directly refute this, as Ghosts driven by Elites rarely hit anything they don't intend to (as in, you jump out of the way and they hit a wall). Banshees are slightly differenty, as they require arcing paths to come around to strafe you again, so they tend to hit high up platforms.
GUNSTAR HEROES PWNS ALL OF J00.
EDIT: Stupidity Filter.
Part of the HL package was its easy modability.
Total Votes: 1659
Halo : 661
Half-Life : 998
Well, in as much as you shouldn't say "But NS is better than Halo!" I agree with you. However, to ignore mods is to ignore part of why Half-Life is so great. Quake 2 started the modding movement, but Half-Life blew it WIDE open with accessible tools and fantastic support from Valve. The ability to alter *everything* about Half-Life at will (and mods like Bumper Cars, HL Rally, NS, and ARCHL show just how modifiable it is) has made it and its mods the most popular first-person shooter (player-minute-wise) EVER. CS virtually invented a genre.
Half-Life was the FIRST FPS to really focus on telling a story in the SP setting. Do you remember the first time you started up DOOM? You were in a room. You went down the stairs, and ran into a zombie, which you attacked. The game continued from there. How about the first time you started up Half-Life? Slow fade in, and "...Welcome to the Black Mesa Automated Transit System." It was nothing we'd ever seen before... ever. You didn't meet so much as a headcrab until probably 15 minutes into the game, and I for one didn't find the intro annoying till about my 10th playthrough (not an exaggeration).
Half-Life changed the way the entire world looked at first-person shooters. It was called "Best Game of All-Time" by PC Gamer in Nov. 1999 (a year after it came out), and received "Game of the Year" awards in 1998 and 1999 from more than 50 different publications. FIFTY DIFFERENT PUBLICATIONS.
Halo's no slouch, but it was awarded Game of the Year in 2001 by only 10-15 publications (I'm discluding those that gave it "best of" in a limited category, e.g. "Best Xbox game" or "Best console FPS").
In my opinion, Half-Life did so much for the gaming industry that not giving it this win over Halo would be a travesty. Personally, I'm looking forward to SMB3 vs. Half-Life in the final, and have no clue which I'll vote for.