<!--QuoteBegin-TriPhase+Jun 6 2004, 10:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TriPhase @ Jun 6 2004, 10:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This is a pretty good idea, the only problem is that with multiple aliens running around wildly with all these different upgrades, marines wouldn't know what to do to defend themselves. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> God forbid marines have to actually think and put effort into winning <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> God forbid marines have to actually think and put effort into winning <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ture. Besides, marines should be used to fighting wacky alien combos thanks to the war game known as Combat. But this time they'd have to make use of a completely different toolset.
I'm all for giving this a try. Perhaps the unchaining + knockback bug fixed would keep skulks scary enough throughout the game.
Anyone know of any servers on the US west coast that run the unchained mod? I don't see any in my server list.
<!--QuoteBegin-Marr+Jun 7 2004, 02:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Marr @ Jun 7 2004, 02:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> God forbid marines have to actually think and put effort into winning <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ture. Besides, marines should be used to fighting wacky alien combos thanks to the war game known as Combat. But this time they'd have to make use of a completely different toolset.
I'm all for giving this a try. Perhaps the unchaining + knockback bug fixed would keep skulks scary enough throughout the game.
Anyone know of any servers on the US west coast that run the unchained mod? I don't see any in my server list. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> the servers I've played on with the mod have gone down... sigh, and i wanted them to be my favorite servers to.
If anyone finds a new Unlocked chamber server, please post here! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
WyzcrakPot Pie AficionadoJoin Date: 2002-12-04Member: 10447Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--QuoteBegin-Trevelyan+Jun 7 2004, 02:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Trevelyan @ Jun 7 2004, 02:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->the servers I've played on with the mod have gone down... sigh, and i wanted them to be my favorite servers to.
If anyone finds a new Unlocked chamber server, please post here! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, the Tactical Gamer server runs this mod, and I believe that might be one of the servers you've noticed as "down," as I recall seeing you frequent that server since we enabled the unchained plugin.
Here's the deal. The standard server became unavailable over the weekend and a temporary server was put up in its place. The standard server is now available and the temporary server has been taken offline. If you try to connect to the temporary IP, you'll notice you can't.
The Tactical Gamer server, which is now again online and running this mod, is :
( fwiw, the DNS hostname of the server is tgns.tacticalgamer.com )
Better? Worse? Fair? Unbalanced? Meh.. who's to say. However, we're having a LOT of FUN with this change, that's for sure... and most who have frequented the server since the plugin's introduction have enjoyed the differences in gameplay, which are more subtle with regard to balance than you might imagine. The plugin is not the end-all-be-all, and I think that some other changes would be helpful if this plugin's effects are included in the game. However, since installing this plugin, we have seen no change in that rate at which marines or aliens win 7v7 rounds.
We didn't enable this plugin with any plans to be all that loyal to keeping it, but we certainly are enjoying it for now. Who knows what will happen in the long run.
<!--QuoteBegin-Wyzcrak+Jun 7 2004, 05:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wyzcrak @ Jun 7 2004, 05:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Better? Worse? Fair? Unbalanced? Meh.. who's to say. However, we're having a LOT of FUN with this change, that's for sure... and most who have frequented the server since the plugin's introduction have enjoyed the differences in gameplay, which are more subtle with regard to balance than you might imagine. The plugin is not the end-all-be-all, and I think that some other changes would be helpful if this plugin's effects are included in the game. However, since installing this plugin, we have seen no change in that rate at which marines or aliens win 7v7 rounds. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Which is what I'd put forward as a major incentive for this implementation. <b>Its Fun</b> It adds variety to the Kharaa game, that just dosn't exist with the standard Beta. It dosn't seem to affect balance <b>at all,</b> the better team still wins.
Its true, a Marine team has to be more on their guard now, and work together. Rambos can, would, and should get slaughtered with the ablity to place Sensories without potential gimpage of the later game. This helps alot with the Skulk's early game, but dosn't overpower them at all, early, mid, or late game.
<!--QuoteBegin-Wyzcrak+Jun 7 2004, 05:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wyzcrak @ Jun 7 2004, 05:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Trevelyan+Jun 7 2004, 02:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Trevelyan @ Jun 7 2004, 02:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->the servers I've played on with the mod have gone down... sigh, and i wanted them to be my favorite servers to.
If anyone finds a new Unlocked chamber server, please post here! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, the Tactical Gamer server runs this mod, and I believe that might be one of the servers you've noticed as "down," as I recall seeing you frequent that server since we enabled the unchained plugin. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'><3</span>
A simpler solution to the current chamber issue could be to just change the fade. He is after all the <i>only</i> reason defense chambers are taken first.
<!--QuoteBegin-Machiavelli+Jun 7 2004, 07:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Machiavelli @ Jun 7 2004, 07:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> A simpler solution to the current chamber issue could be to just change the fade. He is after all the <i>only</i> reason defense chambers are taken first. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> He's also the only reason aliens win games
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Jun 7 2004, 07:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Jun 7 2004, 07:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Machiavelli+Jun 7 2004, 07:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Machiavelli @ Jun 7 2004, 07:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> A simpler solution to the current chamber issue could be to just change the fade. He is after all the <i>only</i> reason defense chambers are taken first. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> He's also the only reason aliens win games <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> More reason to change him then, thinks I.
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Jun 7 2004, 05:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Jun 7 2004, 05:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Machiavelli+Jun 7 2004, 07:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Machiavelli @ Jun 7 2004, 07:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> A simpler solution to the current chamber issue could be to just change the fade. He is after all the <i>only</i> reason defense chambers are taken first. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> He's also the only reason aliens win games <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> negative, 2 hives is how aliens win games, not fades.
played a few days with the plugin, aliens were a bit too powerful and all the games became sensory spam fests. Nothing wrong with sensory all over the place but the fades still had regen, and still got movement chambers.
Honestly an easy to way to balance out the sensory spam effect you would get with this idea, all you have to do is increase the cost of the sensory chamber to something like, 12 or 13 res per chamber.
The sensory spam would be balanced by the RTs you're not building while you're spamming all these sensories all over the place. Somehow I doubt this was the case, more likely it was clever gorges putting sensories in choke points. In which case it's not sensory spam and can easily be negated by the application of one ping from the obs and some good stabbing with your TSA issue combat knife.
<!--QuoteBegin-BobTheJanitor+Jun 8 2004, 12:55 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BobTheJanitor @ Jun 8 2004, 12:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The sensory spam would be balanced by the RTs you're not building while you're spamming all these sensories all over the place. Somehow I doubt this was the case, more likely it was clever gorges putting sensories in choke points. In which case it's not sensory spam and can easily be negated by the application of one ping from the obs and some good stabbing with your TSA issue combat knife. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Unless you spam the sensories in vents
Well, its either range or cost of SCs that'd have to change. A lone SC in the earlygame is probably a bit too useful right now. Other than that, theres no major balance issue - if you're getting owned by midgame SC spam, you sir, are the sux.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Unless you spam the sensories in vents<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So what? Honestly I think people are overestimating the value of early game sensory chambers. On the unchained servers I play on, even SCs in chokepoints and strategic locations like double nodes don't automatically mean that area is off limits. Marine teams move through the area in groups and if they want to secure the area they drop a single obs. That SC, no matter how well hidden, is now negated. Thanks to phase gates many chokepoints simply vanish as the game progresses; the marine side only has to move through them once or twice then they never return.
Alien res is so limited in early game situations that SCs do not get spammed any more than OCs get spammed currently, and SCs do not mean GG for the marines. Plus there are VERY limited options for placing SCs in vents thanks to map design. Once you've played with unchained chambers, you'll find that they simply help to restore the balance of the game, not drastically overpower the alien side.
I'm just going to throw in my support for this idea. Currently I'm trying to convince the server I regularly play on to switch to the unchained plugin, and your support could be helpful in creating another unchained server. Come play on CoFR FR31NS at 64.246.102.61:27015 and ask the server admins to add the unchained mod, or go to <a href='http://www.fr31ns.com/newforums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=255' target='_blank'>http://www.fr31ns.com/newforums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=255</a> and post your support for unchaining the server. With enough people asking for its addition, I'm sure we can have another unchained server up and running.
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
and change ya avatars <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I definitely agree with the original poster's idea
Most of the other ideas (like you get lvl 2 regen with 2 hives) I don't agree with <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo--> You spent most of the game on 1 or 2 hives, almost all upgrades would be useless at this time.
You have my and my signature's support. Not that anyone cares, but meh <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Seems like many posters here are speculating about SC causing marines to get slaughtered. It just isn't true! There is no need to speculate and do the "what if..." game, because the mod is out there and playable. Just go see for yourself. Marines still win a large portion of the games. The only thing it seems to have cut down on is ramboing, and I personally think that's great.
Seriously, if SC was gave aliens such a huge advantage, it would be dropped first on the chained servers. Notice how it is always dropped last. <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo-->
And people keep forgetting that 2.0 already proved that sensories are not the end of the marines! When 2.0 first came out, we got the SAME EXACT COMPLAINTS, but then marines started using obs, putting them down in places they were holding, scanning when needed, and suddenly, the 100+ res investment to set up a sens network is negated, advantage to the marines. When that started happening, aliens moved right back to DMS and stayed there.
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
Initially I was very supportive of this idea, but I've changed my mind, and here's why.
In a public server, the choice of first chamber is one of the few things that the entire alien team does as a group.
Socially this is an essential part of promoting teamwork for the kharaa. It serves the role that deciding who was going to gorge served in 1.04. Its a chance for the team to touch base with eachother, and decide what to do next. The more of these clear decision points there are in the game, the more teamwork oriented the game becomes. I don't think we should be removing any of them.
<!--QuoteBegin-moultano+Jun 10 2004, 09:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Jun 10 2004, 09:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Initially I was very supportive of this idea, but I've changed my mind, and here's why.
In a public server, the choice of first chamber is one of the few things that the entire alien team does as a group.
Socially this is an essential part of promoting teamwork for the kharaa. It serves the role that deciding who was going to gorge served in 1.04. Its a chance for the team to touch base with eachother, and decide what to do next. The more of these clear decision points there are in the game, the more teamwork oriented the game becomes. I don't think we should be removing any of them. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> IMO, It takes much more teamwork than before.
Before: Almost everytime D first 1 or 2 fades, 1 hive and the rest cap nodes. The only communication that we needed before was done within the first 30 sec.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Initially I was very supportive of this idea, but I've changed my mind, and here's why.
In a public server, the choice of first chamber is one of the few things that the entire alien team does as a group.
Socially this is an essential part of promoting teamwork for the kharaa. It serves the role that deciding who was going to gorge served in 1.04. Its a chance for the team to touch base with eachother, and decide what to do next. The more of these clear decision points there are in the game, the more teamwork oriented the game becomes. I don't think we should be removing any of them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Currently, there is no communication: it's D-M-S in 99.99% of games. The only time I have seen communication is someone either saying "DC's fine with everyone?" and getting lots of affirmatives, or "Hey let's try SCs or MCs first" and getting drowned in a sea of negatives.
With unchained chambers, the alien side really can communicate about what's best at what time. The team has limited resources, so it's not like they can throw down 3 of of every chamber right away (yes theorietically they could but the game would be lost). The aliens must decide; do we want sensories forward, where they're likely to be destroyed but we can cloak, do we want early movements for celerity and silence, is someone saving for Fade and if so should we put DCs up? The tactical scope of possibilities is thrown open, and teamwork and communication is boosted because of that.
btw, for those of us who happen to speak German, there's a sister thread on Modguide.de's website that shows more support too. <a href='http://modguide.ngz-network.de/forum/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=3551&boardid=908&styleid=7&page=1#1' target='_blank'>http://modguide.ngz-network.de/forum/wbboa...leid=7&page=1#1</a>
Overall there is a much more negative side of opinion expressed, the most interesting one being a point made by "Tante May" (Aunty May)
The marines can no longer fit their strategy to the hive chamber type.
I had not previously thought of this. I always liked the fact that if aliens did go with SC/MC, they would have a quick game or a win. Rines would rush hive early on to face limited resistance from the aliens, even with higher life forms. This rewarded good commanding. Now marine strategy would face more of a rut; commanders would use the same strategey for most games. Only the hive position effects strategy now; not the chamber it is capped with.
Comments
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
God forbid marines have to actually think and put effort into winning <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Ture. Besides, marines should be used to fighting wacky alien combos thanks to the war game known as Combat. But this time they'd have to make use of a completely different toolset.
I'm all for giving this a try. Perhaps the unchaining + knockback bug fixed would keep skulks scary enough throughout the game.
Anyone know of any servers on the US west coast that run the unchained mod? I don't see any in my server list.
Ture. Besides, marines should be used to fighting wacky alien combos thanks to the war game known as Combat. But this time they'd have to make use of a completely different toolset.
I'm all for giving this a try. Perhaps the unchaining + knockback bug fixed would keep skulks scary enough throughout the game.
Anyone know of any servers on the US west coast that run the unchained mod? I don't see any in my server list. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
the servers I've played on with the mod have gone down... sigh, and i wanted them to be my favorite servers to.
If anyone finds a new Unlocked chamber server, please post here! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If anyone finds a new Unlocked chamber server, please post here! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, the Tactical Gamer server runs this mod, and I believe that might be one of the servers you've noticed as "down," as I recall seeing you frequent that server since we enabled the unchained plugin.
Here's the deal. The standard server became unavailable over the weekend and a temporary server was put up in its place. The standard server is now available and the temporary server has been taken offline. If you try to connect to the temporary IP, you'll notice you can't.
The Tactical Gamer server, which is now again online and running this mod, is :
<span style='color:yellow'>209.19.57.56:27015 TacticalGamer.com NS [UNCHAINED|FF ON|CD PREFERRED|SPEEX]</span>
( fwiw, the DNS hostname of the server is tgns.tacticalgamer.com )
Better? Worse? Fair? Unbalanced? Meh.. who's to say. However, we're having a LOT of FUN with this change, that's for sure... and most who have frequented the server since the plugin's introduction have enjoyed the differences in gameplay, which are more subtle with regard to balance than you might imagine. The plugin is not the end-all-be-all, and I think that some other changes would be helpful if this plugin's effects are included in the game. However, since installing this plugin, we have seen no change in that rate at which marines or aliens win 7v7 rounds.
We didn't enable this plugin with any plans to be all that loyal to keeping it, but we certainly are enjoying it for now. Who knows what will happen in the long run.
Which is what I'd put forward as a major incentive for this implementation. <b>Its Fun</b> It adds variety to the Kharaa game, that just dosn't exist with the standard Beta. It dosn't seem to affect balance <b>at all,</b> the better team still wins.
Its true, a Marine team has to be more on their guard now, and work together. Rambos can, would, and should get slaughtered with the ablity to place Sensories without potential gimpage of the later game. This helps alot with the Skulk's early game, but dosn't overpower them at all, early, mid, or late game.
If anyone finds a new Unlocked chamber server, please post here! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, the Tactical Gamer server runs this mod, and I believe that might be one of the servers you've noticed as "down," as I recall seeing you frequent that server since we enabled the unchained plugin. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
<span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'><3</span>
Time to add you back to my favorite list ^.^
woot time to play more
(>^_^)>
<(^_^<)
He's also the only reason aliens win games
He's also the only reason aliens win games <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
More reason to change him then, thinks I.
Nerf the fade, beef the rest.
He's also the only reason aliens win games <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
negative, 2 hives is how aliens win games, not fades.
Unless you spam the sensories in vents
So what? Honestly I think people are overestimating the value of early game sensory chambers. On the unchained servers I play on, even SCs in chokepoints and strategic locations like double nodes don't automatically mean that area is off limits. Marine teams move through the area in groups and if they want to secure the area they drop a single obs. That SC, no matter how well hidden, is now negated. Thanks to phase gates many chokepoints simply vanish as the game progresses; the marine side only has to move through them once or twice then they never return.
Alien res is so limited in early game situations that SCs do not get spammed any more than OCs get spammed currently, and SCs do not mean GG for the marines. Plus there are VERY limited options for placing SCs in vents thanks to map design. Once you've played with unchained chambers, you'll find that they simply help to restore the balance of the game, not drastically overpower the alien side.
-Brackhar
Quite surprising how much support this is getting. Don't forget to show your support on the poll.
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=72187' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...showtopic=72187</a>
Most of the other ideas (like you get lvl 2 regen with 2 hives) I don't agree with <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo--> You spent most of the game on 1 or 2 hives, almost all upgrades would be useless at this time.
Seriously, if SC was gave aliens such a huge advantage, it would be dropped first on the chained servers. Notice how it is always dropped last.
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo-->
In a public server, the choice of first chamber is one of the few things that the entire alien team does as a group.
Socially this is an essential part of promoting teamwork for the kharaa. It serves the role that deciding who was going to gorge served in 1.04. Its a chance for the team to touch base with eachother, and decide what to do next. The more of these clear decision points there are in the game, the more teamwork oriented the game becomes. I don't think we should be removing any of them.
In a public server, the choice of first chamber is one of the few things that the entire alien team does as a group.
Socially this is an essential part of promoting teamwork for the kharaa. It serves the role that deciding who was going to gorge served in 1.04. Its a chance for the team to touch base with eachother, and decide what to do next. The more of these clear decision points there are in the game, the more teamwork oriented the game becomes. I don't think we should be removing any of them. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
IMO, It takes much more teamwork than before.
Before:
Almost everytime D first 1 or 2 fades, 1 hive and the rest cap nodes. The only communication that we needed before was done within the first 30 sec.
In a public server, the choice of first chamber is one of the few things that the entire alien team does as a group.
Socially this is an essential part of promoting teamwork for the kharaa. It serves the role that deciding who was going to gorge served in 1.04. Its a chance for the team to touch base with eachother, and decide what to do next. The more of these clear decision points there are in the game, the more teamwork oriented the game becomes. I don't think we should be removing any of them.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Currently, there is no communication: it's D-M-S in 99.99% of games. The only time I have seen communication is someone either saying "DC's fine with everyone?" and getting lots of affirmatives, or "Hey let's try SCs or MCs first" and getting drowned in a sea of negatives.
With unchained chambers, the alien side really can communicate about what's best at what time. The team has limited resources, so it's not like they can throw down 3 of of every chamber right away (yes theorietically they could but the game would be lost). The aliens must decide; do we want sensories forward, where they're likely to be destroyed but we can cloak, do we want early movements for celerity and silence, is someone saving for Fade and if so should we put DCs up? The tactical scope of possibilities is thrown open, and teamwork and communication is boosted because of that.
Skulks need the sensory early game to be very effective, Gorges need it to stealth to avoid predators. Lerks, Fades, and Onoses need Dcs for regen.
Everyone gets what they need at the right time.
Blashphemy. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
btw, for those of us who happen to speak German, there's a sister thread on Modguide.de's website that shows more support too.
<a href='http://modguide.ngz-network.de/forum/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=3551&boardid=908&styleid=7&page=1#1' target='_blank'>http://modguide.ngz-network.de/forum/wbboa...leid=7&page=1#1</a>
Overall there is a much more negative side of opinion expressed, the most interesting one being a point made by "Tante May" (Aunty May)
The marines can no longer fit their strategy to the hive chamber type.
I had not previously thought of this. I always liked the fact that if aliens did go with SC/MC, they would have a quick game or a win. Rines would rush hive early on to face limited resistance from the aliens, even with higher life forms.
This rewarded good commanding. Now marine strategy would face more of a rut; commanders would use the same strategey for most games. Only the hive position effects strategy now; not the chamber it is capped with.
Mixed feelings here. Any other views?
(+bump)