AND STOP VOTING NO!!!!! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> People can vote however they like. Thats the point of a poll.
As much as I agree with this idea, people are welcome to their own opinions.
AND STOP VOTING NO!!!!! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Does it even matter? it's obvious a LARGE part of the community would at least like to try it out for a while.
it seems that many of the people who voted "no" didn't really take the time to look into the idea :/ i've spent a lot of minutes from my work-time in these couple of days, to explain this thing on irc.
<!--QuoteBegin-BobTheJanitor+Jun 4 2004, 04:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BobTheJanitor @ Jun 4 2004, 04:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> MT. Obs. Ping. Listen. Silence doesn't silence the sound of DCs healing while the ping of death is going off. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> But an MC does. Doesn't it?
Meh. Maybe that was earlier version. Definately in ns2 anyway. Besides, drawn out games are generally boring, and even in clan play a lone gorge hiding to save res for that hive will not last long, and will certainly not be able to keep that hive up.
It only did in the 2.0 betas, if I remember correctly. At the moment, the MCs provide boosted adrenaline to those in proximity and teleportation to hives.
It's not really a problem anyway, since it's at the end of a game.
<!--QuoteBegin-BobTheJanitor+Jun 4 2004, 01:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BobTheJanitor @ Jun 4 2004, 01:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Beretta+Jun 4 2004, 03:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Beretta @ Jun 4 2004, 03:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ok so what about if marines kill the aliens hive and 3 gorges have built a silent, cloaked, regen base in some huge map like agora, the rines would never find them!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
MT. Obs. Ping. Listen. Silence doesn't silence the sound of DCs healing while the ping of death is going off. The only time this will be a problem is at end game, and you're just as likely to have built one of each chamber in a vent by then anyway.
<!--QuoteBegin-Beretta+Jun 4 2004, 03:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Beretta @ Jun 4 2004, 03:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, a gorge can drop any chamber yes?
So, you could have SC MC and DC, but the skulks couldnt use them ?
This would be such a huge upgrades to aliens =/<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The skulks could use them just fine. You can evolve one upgrade for each hive you have, just like now. Unlike now, you are free to drop the chambers that power those upgrades at any time.
Also, there's an edit key on each of your posts. It's customary to edit your last post if you need to add something, as long as no one has posted after you. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It just dawned on me that Beretta's two quotes were meant to go together. So, he is saying that if you have all three upgrade chambers and zero hives, you wouldn't be able to get any upgrades. I think this is reasonable, actually, though it shouldn't matter. If you get upgrades and then lose hives, you shouldn't lose your extra upgrades while you are still alive, though.
Yar! Tossing my support in here as well. As I mentioned in the other thread, I'm trying to convert CoFR FR31NS server to unchained, so come show your support! Play on 64.246.102.61:27015 and ask the admins to change, or post your support at <a href='http://www.fr31ns.com/newforums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=255' target='_blank'>http://www.fr31ns.com/newforums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=255</a> . After talking to the server owner it sounds like we'll be testing the unchained plugin soon. I'll post back in these two threads if we keep the change.
Silence does affect DC healing. However, if the MC's are killed, you lose your silence. That's why you need them to be near the DC's. If this becomes an issue, I think a POD with increasing damage could be introduced.
I have been playing on a server with the plugin that unchains the chambers for a few weeks and....
All I have to say:
I haven't had this much fun playing NS for a long time. Now players dont have to go and save res for half the game to become a fade instead they are droping chambers. I also have noticed players enjoy laming this up and putting use to the chambers which is stopping alot of the annoying 1 man PG rush. You no longer need 2 nasty fades to finish the game, skulks are actually usefull lategame.
The alien res system is now taxed just as much as the marine system because of all the options you can do with it now.
<!--QuoteBegin-Emanon+Jun 9 2004, 10:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Emanon @ Jun 9 2004, 10:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The alien res system is now taxed just as much as the marine system because of all the options you can do with it now. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes I do enjoy those who complain "OMG SENSORY SPAM, OVARPOWERED!"
Mainly because those are the same type of people that say:
"PG up and you couldn't get it down? Well dont let that happen!"
"HA train and you cant kill it? Well dont let that happen!"
Well... maybe before complaining about the plugin, they should not let the aliens get any res!
matsoMaster of PatchesJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
edited June 2004
Having just spent a couple of hours on an unchained server, I must say it was really, really fun. The most fun I've had playing 3.0 beta, definitely. Especially as a skulk. Now you can drop a sensory and a DC at a chokepoint, then switch back to skulk and actually expect to keep a non-supported rambo out...
Strangely enough, the games were pretty much even. Because sensories were usually dropped fairly quickly, DC's and fades were usually delayed ... and even though skulks were much more useful with a free selection of chambers, it is still fades that wins the games.
All in all, 2 thumbs (or claws) up for unchaining!
Are there any UK servers with this plug-in installed?
Edit: 1000 posts <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->, I'd like to thank my mother, father and all the little people for helping me get to where I am.
<!--QuoteBegin-rknZ+Jun 9 2004, 02:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (rknZ @ Jun 9 2004, 02:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think that's needed, free upgrades for skulks with this system would be TOO much imo. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Possibly. But perhaps when 4 or 5 chambers of the same type are up, upgrades should be free. 40/50 res invested and by that point marines would have some upgrades to deal with various chambers e.g. weaponsX, armourX, mt etc.
I'd also like to see gorge cost dropped aswell to encourage building chambers.
first method makes sense as it wouldn't change the initial game play with respect to upgrades, but it would change later on as aliens get more hives - but when they at 3 hives, do they really 'need' free upgrades?
for second, this would make significant change to the initial game, but end game, when aliens have 3 hives, is it worth charging 2 measly res?
As things stand, aliens lock themselves into a play style (i.e. chamber type) in the opening game. The marine strategy is then, of course, to counter the attributes of the chosen chamber type. Unfortunately, with the current chamber system the main way for aliens to respond to a marine counter is to put up a second hive – giving them access to a second chamber type.
By unlocking the chambers we allow for a more dynamic game in which aliens and marines can counter each other’s tech upgrades from the beginning of the game. At the moment, the marines have the ability to do this, but the aliens (the team that actually evolves) are forced into a single play style that slowly stagnates without a second hive. In my opinion this will boost the RTS aspect of natural selection, as each side fights to gain a tech advantage over the other.
Unlocking the alien evolutions in the transition from 1.04 to 2.0 gave NS the exact sort of RTS boost I’m talking about. Does anyone remember a 1 or 2 hive counter to HA rushes in 1.04? I sure don’t. But now, similar to any good RTS, both teams can access the needed units to counter their opponents units at almost any stage of the game (resources allowing). Point being, I agree with those of you who think unlocking the chambers will have a similar improvement on natural selection’s unique balance of RTS/FPS gameplay
<!--QuoteBegin-shanks+Jun 10 2004, 02:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (shanks @ Jun 10 2004, 02:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> what about scaling it with the number of hives?
i can't decide which way:
1 hive: 2 res 2 hives: 1 res 3 hives: 0 res
or
1 hive: 0 res 2 hives: 1 res 3 hives: 2 res
both have advantages and disadvantages...
first method makes sense as it wouldn't change the initial game play with respect to upgrades, but it would change later on as aliens get more hives - but when they at 3 hives, do they really 'need' free upgrades?
for second, this would make significant change to the initial game, but end game, when aliens have 3 hives, is it worth charging 2 measly res?
i dunno <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> How about first upgrade = 0 res. 2nd = 2 res. 3rd = 4 res.
<!--QuoteBegin-shanks+Jun 10 2004, 09:21 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (shanks @ Jun 10 2004, 09:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> what about scaling it with the number of hives?
i can't decide which way:
1 hive: 2 res 2 hives: 1 res 3 hives: 0 res <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Its... so beautiful... I cannot express my joy in the human language right now. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Ahnteis+Jun 11 2004, 01:31 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ahnteis @ Jun 11 2004, 01:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-shanks+Jun 10 2004, 02:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (shanks @ Jun 10 2004, 02:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> what about scaling it with the number of hives?
i can't decide which way:
1 hive: 2 res 2 hives: 1 res 3 hives: 0 res
or
1 hive: 0 res 2 hives: 1 res 3 hives: 2 res
both have advantages and disadvantages...
first method makes sense as it wouldn't change the initial game play with respect to upgrades, but it would change later on as aliens get more hives - but when they at 3 hives, do they really 'need' free upgrades?
for second, this would make significant change to the initial game, but end game, when aliens have 3 hives, is it worth charging 2 measly res?
i dunno <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> How about first upgrade = 0 res. 2nd = 2 res. 3rd = 4 res.
(Still restricted to 1 upgrade per hive.) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I like that idea. Gives the skulk a chance to get a much needed upgrade without having free super skulks running around.
And yet, no developer feedback at all. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
unchaining the chambers with the amx mod works quite well and leads to better games. If put into ns properly it would be good. I dont expect the devs to answer this thread though.. you'll probably see gorge springboards first...
<!--QuoteBegin-Red Squirrel+Jun 11 2004, 05:51 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Red Squirrel @ Jun 11 2004, 05:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> How about first upgrade = 0 res. 2nd = 2 res. 3rd = 4 res.
(Still restricted to 1 upgrade per hive.) [/QUOTE] I like that idea. Gives the skulk a chance to get a much needed upgrade without having free super skulks running around. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> 1 - Skulks are useless when the game reaches the third hive stage other then Xenocide
2 - Super skulk? When did multipul upgrades from the same chamber come into effect?
3 - Why in gods name would you make upgrades cost 4 res at the THIRD HIVE? thats 12 res just to upgrade a little tiny skulk, and it is by no means... "Super"
i dont think u understood. what he means is, that: if you have all 3 chambers, thus u can take 3 different upgrades. 1 from each chamber. the first upgrade u pick (say, regeneration), is free of charge. if you decide to take celerity as well, it will cost you 2 res. so, now, if you still want to take focus, it will cost you _ 4 _ res. i think, this idea is not really worthwhile, although, if some balancing is required, this is a pretty good "joker card", if you will.
e// actually, after some more thought, this is a pretty good idea. in fact, this is a pretty damn good idea. because now, if u want to take 3 upgrades it'll cost 6 res. and 2 upgrades will cost 4 res. with this on, it'd still cost 6 res for 2 upgrades, but only 2 res for 2 upgrades.
<!--QuoteBegin-Trevelyan+Jun 11 2004, 08:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Trevelyan @ Jun 11 2004, 08:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 3 - Why in gods name would you make upgrades cost 4 res at the THIRD HIVE? thats 12 res just to upgrade a little tiny skulk, and it is by no means... "Super" <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Someone skimming instead of reading?
First UPGRADE costs 0 res. Second UPGRADE costs 2 res. Third UPGRADE costs 4 res.
Still limited to 1 UPGRADE per hive.
As mentioned, it adds up to 6 res which is the current cost for 3 upgrades, but makes it easy to get single upgrades (which is usually the start of the game and makes skulk upgrades viable).
<!--QuoteBegin-Trevelyan+Jun 11 2004, 09:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Trevelyan @ Jun 11 2004, 09:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 3 - Why in gods name would you make upgrades cost 4 res at the THIRD HIVE? thats 12 res just to upgrade a little tiny skulk, and it is by no means... "Super" <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I thought you meant, like Tom pointed out, 1st upgrade would be free 2nd upgrade would cost 2 res and 3rd upgrade would cost 4 res. 6 res to upgrade a Skulk but just to get some caprace at the end game to make sure they can survive long enough to Xeno would be free (whilst saving up to be bigger life form).
lately I've been playing on a server with a mod to unchain the chambers, and it's been working wonderfully. A large number of strategies are now available to the aliens to utilize. Putting up all 3 types of chambers isn't always an "ideal" situation for aliens. Putting up 3 dc 3 mc and 3 scs will likely cost > 120 res (10 for gorge, 10 per chamber, assuming each gorge puts up 3 chambers). More if each puts up less. However, it revitilizes the strategy to almost no end. Since aliens are still limited to one upgrade per hive, they are by no means overpowered. Skulks and Gorges are simply more free to choose better routes for themselves.
In my experience thus far, it has been very balanced. A player putting up 3 SCs puts that 40 res into sensories, and another putting that 40 res into DCs, is one less player that goes fade or onos later on. I feel that there is a good balance in 6-7 player games (the size of the server I have been playing on lately). Aliens can spend too much res on chambers, and not enough on higher lifeforms, I've seen it happen before. Chambers aren't always safe, and can be destroyed; especially sensory chambers, which are often placed in battle zones, and cannot always be placed out of marine reach.
Also, a skulk spending 2 res on focus/cloak every single time he dies also slows the onset of larger lifeforms. It makes playing more of a choice of style. Do you want to use your res to stay upgraded as a skulk every time you die, or would you rather save it all up and be a fast fade? Also, if you didn't use that res on those upgrades, maybe you could put up a hive, or some chambers that your team desperately needs. In the experience I have had with the unlocking modification, it has shown me just about all gain, and no pain.
It does strength alien teams, but not to the point where they are overpowering. It adds more dept and variety to the game. I mean seriously, how many games do you play in pubs that AREN'T DMS? Isn't it always the same, plop down res towers, someone drop hive, someone drop DCs, fades, and game...
Let's add a little more variety in how aliens can play. The system already has inherent limiters that work just fine, with the chambers unchained.
Comments
AND STOP VOTING NO!!!!! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
People can vote however they like. Thats the point of a poll.
As much as I agree with this idea, people are welcome to their own opinions.
AND STOP VOTING NO!!!!! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Does it even matter? it's obvious a LARGE part of the community would at least like to try it out for a while.
MT. Obs. Ping. Listen. Silence doesn't silence the sound of DCs healing while the ping of death is going off. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
But an MC does.
Doesn't it?
Meh. Maybe that was earlier version. Definately in ns2 anyway. Besides, drawn out games are generally boring, and even in clan play a lone gorge hiding to save res for that hive will not last long, and will certainly not be able to keep that hive up.
It's not really a problem anyway, since it's at the end of a game.
MT. Obs. Ping. Listen. Silence doesn't silence the sound of DCs healing while the ping of death is going off. The only time this will be a problem is at end game, and you're just as likely to have built one of each chamber in a vent by then anyway.
<!--QuoteBegin-Beretta+Jun 4 2004, 03:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Beretta @ Jun 4 2004, 03:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, a gorge can drop any chamber yes?
So, you could have SC MC and DC, but the skulks couldnt use them ?
This would be such a huge upgrades to aliens =/<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The skulks could use them just fine. You can evolve one upgrade for each hive you have, just like now. Unlike now, you are free to drop the chambers that power those upgrades at any time.
Also, there's an edit key on each of your posts. It's customary to edit your last post if you need to add something, as long as no one has posted after you. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It just dawned on me that Beretta's two quotes were meant to go together. So, he is saying that if you have all three upgrade chambers and zero hives, you wouldn't be able to get any upgrades. I think this is reasonable, actually, though it shouldn't matter. If you get upgrades and then lose hives, you shouldn't lose your extra upgrades while you are still alive, though.
-Brackhar
All I have to say:
I haven't had this much fun playing NS for a long time. Now players dont have to go and save res for half the game to become a fade instead they are droping chambers. I also have noticed players enjoy laming this up and putting use to the chambers which is stopping alot of the annoying 1 man PG rush. You no longer need 2 nasty fades to finish the game, skulks are actually usefull lategame.
The alien res system is now taxed just as much as the marine system because of all the options you can do with it now.
Yes I do enjoy those who complain "OMG SENSORY SPAM, OVARPOWERED!"
Mainly because those are the same type of people that say:
"PG up and you couldn't get it down? Well dont let that happen!"
"HA train and you cant kill it? Well dont let that happen!"
Well... maybe before complaining about the plugin, they should not let the aliens get any res!
Strangely enough, the games were pretty much even. Because sensories were usually dropped fairly quickly, DC's and fades were usually delayed ... and even though skulks were much more useful with a free selection of chambers, it is still fades that wins the games.
All in all, 2 thumbs (or claws) up for unchaining!
Edit: 1000 posts <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->, I'd like to thank my mother, father and all the little people for helping me get to where I am.
Possibly. But perhaps when 4 or 5 chambers of the same type are up, upgrades should be free. 40/50 res invested and by that point marines would have some upgrades to deal with various chambers e.g. weaponsX, armourX, mt etc.
I'd also like to see gorge cost dropped aswell to encourage building chambers.
i can't decide which way:
1 hive: 2 res
2 hives: 1 res
3 hives: 0 res
or
1 hive: 0 res
2 hives: 1 res
3 hives: 2 res
both have advantages and disadvantages...
first method makes sense as it wouldn't change the initial game play with respect to upgrades, but it would change later on as aliens get more hives - but when they at 3 hives, do they really 'need' free upgrades?
for second, this would make significant change to the initial game, but end game, when aliens have 3 hives, is it worth charging 2 measly res?
i dunno
As things stand, aliens lock themselves into a play style (i.e. chamber type) in the opening game. The marine strategy is then, of course, to counter the attributes of the chosen chamber type. Unfortunately, with the current chamber system the main way for aliens to respond to a marine counter is to put up a second hive – giving them access to a second chamber type.
By unlocking the chambers we allow for a more dynamic game in which aliens and marines can counter each other’s tech upgrades from the beginning of the game. At the moment, the marines have the ability to do this, but the aliens (the team that actually evolves) are forced into a single play style that slowly stagnates without a second hive. In my opinion this will boost the RTS aspect of natural selection, as each side fights to gain a tech advantage over the other.
Unlocking the alien evolutions in the transition from 1.04 to 2.0 gave NS the exact sort of RTS boost I’m talking about. Does anyone remember a 1 or 2 hive counter to HA rushes in 1.04? I sure don’t. But now, similar to any good RTS, both teams can access the needed units to counter their opponents units at almost any stage of the game (resources allowing). Point being, I agree with those of you who think unlocking the chambers will have a similar improvement on natural selection’s unique balance of RTS/FPS gameplay
i can't decide which way:
1 hive: 2 res
2 hives: 1 res
3 hives: 0 res
or
1 hive: 0 res
2 hives: 1 res
3 hives: 2 res
both have advantages and disadvantages...
first method makes sense as it wouldn't change the initial game play with respect to upgrades, but it would change later on as aliens get more hives - but when they at 3 hives, do they really 'need' free upgrades?
for second, this would make significant change to the initial game, but end game, when aliens have 3 hives, is it worth charging 2 measly res?
i dunno <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
How about first upgrade = 0 res. 2nd = 2 res. 3rd = 4 res.
(Still restricted to 1 upgrade per hive.)
i can't decide which way:
1 hive: 2 res
2 hives: 1 res
3 hives: 0 res
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its... so beautiful... I cannot express my joy in the human language right now. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
i can't decide which way:
1 hive: 2 res
2 hives: 1 res
3 hives: 0 res
or
1 hive: 0 res
2 hives: 1 res
3 hives: 2 res
both have advantages and disadvantages...
first method makes sense as it wouldn't change the initial game play with respect to upgrades, but it would change later on as aliens get more hives - but when they at 3 hives, do they really 'need' free upgrades?
for second, this would make significant change to the initial game, but end game, when aliens have 3 hives, is it worth charging 2 measly res?
i dunno <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How about first upgrade = 0 res. 2nd = 2 res. 3rd = 4 res.
(Still restricted to 1 upgrade per hive.) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like that idea. Gives the skulk a chance to get a much needed upgrade without having free super skulks running around.
Kind of discouraging.
(Still restricted to 1 upgrade per hive.) [/QUOTE]
I like that idea. Gives the skulk a chance to get a much needed upgrade without having free super skulks running around. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
1 - Skulks are useless when the game reaches the third hive stage other then Xenocide
2 - Super skulk? When did multipul upgrades from the same chamber come into effect?
3 - Why in gods name would you make upgrades cost 4 res at the THIRD HIVE? thats 12 res just to upgrade a little tiny skulk, and it is by no means... "Super"
e// actually, after some more thought, this is a pretty good idea. in fact, this is a pretty damn good idea. because now, if u want to take 3 upgrades it'll cost 6 res. and 2 upgrades will cost 4 res. with this on, it'd still cost 6 res for 2 upgrades, but only 2 res for 2 upgrades.
Someone skimming instead of reading?
First UPGRADE costs 0 res.
Second UPGRADE costs 2 res.
Third UPGRADE costs 4 res.
Still limited to 1 UPGRADE per hive.
As mentioned, it adds up to 6 res which is the current cost for 3 upgrades, but makes it easy to get single upgrades (which is usually the start of the game and makes skulk upgrades viable).
I thought you meant, like Tom pointed out, 1st upgrade would be free 2nd upgrade would cost 2 res and 3rd upgrade would cost 4 res. 6 res to upgrade a Skulk but just to get some caprace at the end game to make sure they can survive long enough to Xeno would be free (whilst saving up to be bigger life form).
In my experience thus far, it has been very balanced. A player putting up 3 SCs puts that 40 res into sensories, and another putting that 40 res into DCs, is one less player that goes fade or onos later on. I feel that there is a good balance in 6-7 player games (the size of the server I have been playing on lately). Aliens can spend too much res on chambers, and not enough on higher lifeforms, I've seen it happen before. Chambers aren't always safe, and can be destroyed; especially sensory chambers, which are often placed in battle zones, and cannot always be placed out of marine reach.
Also, a skulk spending 2 res on focus/cloak every single time he dies also slows the onset of larger lifeforms. It makes playing more of a choice of style. Do you want to use your res to stay upgraded as a skulk every time you die, or would you rather save it all up and be a fast fade? Also, if you didn't use that res on those upgrades, maybe you could put up a hive, or some chambers that your team desperately needs. In the experience I have had with the unlocking modification, it has shown me just about all gain, and no pain.
It does strength alien teams, but not to the point where they are overpowering. It adds more dept and variety to the game. I mean seriously, how many games do you play in pubs that AREN'T DMS? Isn't it always the same, plop down res towers, someone drop hive, someone drop DCs, fades, and game...
Let's add a little more variety in how aliens can play. The system already has inherent limiters that work just fine, with the chambers unchained.