Question Regarding Focus
SDJason
Join Date: 2003-05-29 Member: 16841Members
Join Date: 2003-05-29 Member: 16841Members
<div class="IPBDescription">definition of an "upgrade"</div> When you get regeneration, it regenerates your health, no penalty, such as maybe only 3/4 of the hitpoints, but regeneration... hence the word upgrade
When you get silence, you are silent (or somewhat quieter) no downside, you still move just as fast, and can attack, ect. Here is another example of an UPGRADE
When you get carapace, you have "more" hitpoints, once again no downside, you still move just as fast, can attack, ect. Once again.. an UPGRADRE
When you get focus, attacks do twice as much damage... BUT, there is a downside/trade-off... you can only attack half as fast.... where does the upgrade factor come in here??
Im paying res for a trade off.<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Every other "upgrade" in the game gives a clear cut advantage with NO DOWNSIDES!! Why is focus any different...
Sure it makes one bite kills, but armor 1 makes it useless, armor 1 isnt just the counter to focus (negating its use, making 2 bite kills again) but it also destroys aliens with focus as by the time they get thier second bite in, the marines have pumped 30-40 rounds into em.....
This is an argument, and im open to suggestions....tho i will argue one before it even comes up...
Focus would be overpowered if it did double damage with regular bite speed....
ALL other upgrades in the game dont have downsides (arguable, but lets stay generic here)
Armor 1 would still counter focus, restoring normal 2 bite kills, but leaving aliens without d chambers until second hive(or third).... so how unbalancing would it be?
IF it were unbalancing, why not just balance it so it is useful as an UPGRADE and not a TRADE-OFF...
I just think it is rediculous as is now, its a trade off that can be used to your advantage in few situations, not an upgrade that can be used to your advantage in few situations(or many, doesent really matter)
Well uve listened to me ****, now i'll open it up to you....
Thoughts??
~Jason
When you get silence, you are silent (or somewhat quieter) no downside, you still move just as fast, and can attack, ect. Here is another example of an UPGRADE
When you get carapace, you have "more" hitpoints, once again no downside, you still move just as fast, can attack, ect. Once again.. an UPGRADRE
When you get focus, attacks do twice as much damage... BUT, there is a downside/trade-off... you can only attack half as fast.... where does the upgrade factor come in here??
Im paying res for a trade off.<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Every other "upgrade" in the game gives a clear cut advantage with NO DOWNSIDES!! Why is focus any different...
Sure it makes one bite kills, but armor 1 makes it useless, armor 1 isnt just the counter to focus (negating its use, making 2 bite kills again) but it also destroys aliens with focus as by the time they get thier second bite in, the marines have pumped 30-40 rounds into em.....
This is an argument, and im open to suggestions....tho i will argue one before it even comes up...
Focus would be overpowered if it did double damage with regular bite speed....
ALL other upgrades in the game dont have downsides (arguable, but lets stay generic here)
Armor 1 would still counter focus, restoring normal 2 bite kills, but leaving aliens without d chambers until second hive(or third).... so how unbalancing would it be?
IF it were unbalancing, why not just balance it so it is useful as an UPGRADE and not a TRADE-OFF...
I just think it is rediculous as is now, its a trade off that can be used to your advantage in few situations, not an upgrade that can be used to your advantage in few situations(or many, doesent really matter)
Well uve listened to me ****, now i'll open it up to you....
Thoughts??
~Jason
Comments
Personally, I think it's still overpowered, but I dont see why it needs changing
Aren't you slowed down when you upgrade to carapace?
Your argument holds less water if you acknowledge this.
Aren't you slowed down when you upgrade to carapace?
Your argument holds less water if you acknowledge this. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The slowdown was taken out a bit ago.
Aren't you slowed down when you upgrade to carapace?
Your argument holds less water if you acknowledge this. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The slowdown was taken out a bit ago. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is, a very, very long time ago. It was one of the changes in 2.0 that went where it belonged a few weeks later - in the can.
As for Focus, well what do you (that is, everyone here who wants it changed) want done about it? Do you want to simply remove its Rate of Fire decrease, which would overpower it outrageously, or, in compensation, do you also want to lower its damage boost, which would remove its one-hit kill capabilities?
Focus has a setback - you don't bite as fast. Thats because not getting cloaking or SoF isn't really much of a setback. Additionally, and more accurately, its a balance issue so that skulks don't annihilate L3 marines with insane bitespam. Focus is going to be boosted somewhat with the next beta, due to the knockback tweaks.
BTW, even IF the remaining SC chambers were both worth taking I don't think Focus would be in need of change. We've got one hit kills, what do you want, sprinkles on it?
Personally, I think it's still overpowered, but I dont see why it needs changing <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No its not learn to play the game. During closed beta when focus had no strings attatched and affected every weapon it was great, and nobody whined
Focus does double damage w/ double adren usage normal bite speed (and should effect all weapon slots
BEFORE saying its overpowered (it may be, im not sure) consider this
-It will reduce engame stalemates, as focus will become a real base-breaker for the aliens
-Focus WILL be a formiddable upgrade, it may change the DMS standard and make it more normal
-Focus IS still directly counterable with Armor 1 (tho unless it is already, armor 2 should be modified so it takes 3 focus bites) Armor 1 causes 2 bites, which is the same as normal alien vs normal marine.
-As "overpowered" as aliens may seem early game with focus, they have NO d chambers, which means you wont be seeing too many higher lifeforms until second hive is completed..
Will this be overpowered, im actually going to guess slightly, but it would make focus more viable... SURE it is GREAT NOW, but why make it a trade-off, other than an upgrade.
Tweak several other parts of the game to keep it balanced... but i think focus should be changed to better fit in with the "upgrade"look of all the other upgrades
~Jason
Personally, I think it's still overpowered, but I dont see why it needs changing <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe it is in combat with usually no teamwork whatsoever, but it sure as hell isn't in NS.
But I also think a 50% ROF should be enough. Why make focus useless against structures? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
As a fade, would you rather have adren or celerity or focus? Or Regen for an onos rather than focus?
Sure, for a lerk, that'll probably be the only time when focus will be useful in the majority of situations, but even then, lerks usually stay out of combat.
And then we have the skulk, best left chewing on RTs, and in fact, focus instead of regular fire actually takes MORE time to kill an RT.
Why do you think nobody gets SC second? Why is it DMs?
If it were so powerful, it would be used more. Focus needs to be more powerful, period. You trade off power for speed, and you can't get cloaking or SoF either. So that invalidates yoru argument, Necrosis.
Do onos need regen and celerity/adrenaline?
Do fades need regen/carapce and celerity/adrenaline?
When something is massively overpowered, everybody always chooses that.
So I think defense chambers and movement chamber upgrades are massively overpowered.
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Do onos need regen and celerity/adrenaline?
Do fades need regen/carapce and celerity/adrenaline?
When something is massively overpowered, everybody always chooses that.
So I think defense chambers and movement chamber upgrades are massively overpowered.
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or instead of thinking that, you could consider the possibility that they're <i>not</i> overpowered, but simply <b><i>better</i></b> that Focus for general purposes. The best of a category isn't automatically overpowered.
Focus doesn't need its effect changed. At all.
There's only one thing I would ask: that its Combat two-point cost were removed, and replaced with a minimum level requirement of 3 or 4. If I recall, the extra expense was to prevent it from being taken at level 2. A minimum level requirement would achieve the same, but without invalidating a Classic-legitimate three-Hive Fade build that uses it.
Personally... idc about combat.... and im just trying to understand why focus is the only upgrade with a direct drawback (other than the fact that you can no longer "get" any other upgrades)
~Jason
if focus were beefed up i bet aliens might switch the DMS standard up a bit..
Defense will prominently always be the first chamber... but occasionally we might see a switch for improved attack damage with no loss in attack speed
~Jason
I'm assuming that you supporting such a godly overpower means that you have either 1) never played on marines, or 2) you have played on marines but like aliens 90% of the time.
I heard in 3.0 they will increase the power of the shotgun, Imagine how overpowered that is!
Also if you want to remained clocked your speed is reduced....is this not anouther trade off?
Focus has a setback - you don't bite as fast. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think the point it that, while every single choice has the setback that it wasn't a different choice, Focus has an *additional* setback on top of this. If you are going to count not having something else as a setback, then Focus has 2 setbacks, twice as many as any other upgrade.
I should point out that I have no real opinion on whether Focus should be half speed or not, I just thought your reasoning was a little... inconsistent.
Not really, as you're not forced to walk slowly all the time. If cloaking effectively broke your poor kharaa's legs, that would be a trade off. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Its too bad that if I insulted people zero would just delete it.