Added Mine ladder Section, I really think this needs to be stickied <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Spread out placement around that IP is great, skulk either explodes or gets telefragged. Rez node placements are nice too, i didn't think about putting them under the legs.
Sometimes I command and sometimes I do the grunt work as a marine, regardless, I always run into people who just don't know what to do with mines and it angers me. It kills me when I drop 2 packs of mines and I scream for them to be placed at a node or phase gate, and they just seem to disapear. Other times when we just finished a phase gate into a hostile hive and I yell for the com to "drop mines in base for the phase gate!!", and no response, not even a reason why not. He should have had two people ready to go with the mines before the phase gate even finished.
Also, back in the day i remember laying "onos" and "fade" traps: a pack of mines all placed directly ontop of eachother. When the same fade keeps coming back to pick on the same rez node and I ask a marine to lay a "fade trap" using the mines, i tell him to place them all ontop of eachother but 9 times out of 10 they end up spread out, usually not even at the resource node in question.
Do these traps still work? how many mines does it take to kill a full health fade or onos? It's probably more than 4, but that onos or fade probably isn't at full health so it might still die outright. If it lives, it's near death and REALLY confused, your marines can kill it. Yeah, a skulk can suicide into the mines, but that doesn't happen all that often. Anyone know the answers to the 'mine trap' questions?
As far as I know, around 6-8 mines will bring a full health regen fade to about 125hp, add to that a shotgunner who can do 170dmg per shot at w0...
I remember fade and onos traps back in the day <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
you can't place mines ontop of each other anymore but you can place them very, very close together. Big point is you should put them in the middle of a doorway, or where there is a low ceiling, as this makes it very hard for the fade to blink over the mines.
I have seen these "traps" work, rarely. It all depends on how smart the fade is. I've seen bad fades get torched by hand nades and knifed into submission, but I've also seen hive 1 fades decimate squads of w3/a3 HMG'ers.
Personally I'd rather drop a few shotguns (for the same cost) on a pub, because these are more likely to be used well. A lot of pubbers simply won't know what a "fade trap" is, or how to implement one. Added to the fact that shotguns are infinitely re-usable for taking down fades whereas mines are not.
Add to that that when fades turn up, hive2 will usually be going up, or finished. At hive 2 mines become redundant as gorge bilebomb and fade meta can make short work of any "fade traps" and of any base defences.
However, around the 4 minute mark, spreading mines out in the open areas of your base can deal a helpful hand in taking down fades. As any fade has to land sometime, they usually blink very low when they are going to swipe a marine, and will either land on a few mines or clip a few, with a couple of shotgunners dealing with the fade it should go down fairly easily. Even easier if you CC block the exits.
Mines are kinda expensive if your trying to use them to help with fades... A shot gunner is money better spent to kill a fade, but vs anything smaller then a fade mines are very potent...
Since knock back exist most good marines will try to jump when the spawn, that either gives them time to find the skulk or if the skulk finds them, it gives them the range to kill the skulk, or the skulk hits a mine chasing him... On the IP = bad... around the IP like shown is effective and helps with general base defence...
If it takes 6-8 mines to almost kill a fade then I know what you mean when you say a shotgun is better spent... that number seems extremely high.
Honestly, I think that if 7 mines explode and the fade is at or near the epicenter then it should be reduced it to giblets, even if it has carapace. At 6-8 for a wounding blow... are these landmines or firecrackers? Sounds like they need a near 50% damage boost to be effective against anything except a skulk...
reckon i'll head over to the suggestions forum and complain some...
Honestly, this thread deserves a sticky. It has valuable information, helpful pictures, and is newbie friendly.
not always. at a siege spot its always useful to drop mines. everywhere. you can get 3 packs of mines at the cost of an elec rt, and i think at that time the mines will be more useful. unless they happen to get bilebomb :B but then you'd be screwed anyways.
I don't like defensive mining (around IPs)... I'm very much a fan of aggressive mining. Here's a few shots of some tricks of mine:
1) underneath "lips" in level geometry - this is an example of mining near MS <img src='http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v44/windelkron/ex1.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
2) underneath "lips" in level geometry - in an out-of-the-blue spot. in seldom used hallways like these, enemies will <b>not</b> be careful. <img src='http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v44/windelkron/ex5.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
3) on stairs - EXCELLENT trick. I've killed onos in 1 step with these (needed 2 packs, though) <img src='http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v44/windelkron/ex2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
4) above ramps. This seems silly, but it works incredibly well - they just can't see it from the bottom. <img src='http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v44/windelkron/ex4.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
5) creative mine placement - think how fast skulks come bounding out of caged's Sewer hive... right into this mine. <img src='http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v44/windelkron/ex3.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
feel free to add these to the first post if you want to.
If you haven't already, stick a link in the "Links To The Guides And Faqs" thread. That thread is pretty useful because it links to virtually everything you need, in fact if any thread would need sticky then it'd be that one.
space, you can still place mines on top of each other, but you have to place them <i>exactly</i> on top of each other and you have to point straight down.
Since most people assume you cant stack mines i get a lot of "WTH? was taht one mine!!111!!!" <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-cortex+Aug 28 2004, 08:08 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cortex @ Aug 28 2004, 08:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> space, you can still place mines on top of each other, but you have to place them <i>exactly</i> on top of each other and you have to point straight down.
Since most people assume you cant stack mines i get a lot of "WTH? was taht one mine!!111!!!" <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Didn't know that, I could get some screenies and add another section, or you could get me some screenies and get a mention in the credits, what's it gonna be?
<!--QuoteBegin-cortex+Aug 28 2004, 08:08 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cortex @ Aug 28 2004, 08:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> space, you can still place mines on top of each other, but you have to place them <i>exactly</i> on top of each other and you have to point straight down.
Since most people assume you cant stack mines i get a lot of "WTH? was taht one mine!!111!!!" <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> OMG H4X
Often, I'll hop into a vent and place mines in it. It's impossible to avoid mines in a cramped vent, so you always get a few kills, and better skulks will be stopped in their tracks. Plus onoses and fades don't go into vents very often, so all the more kills.
Just make sure the mines don't block marines from walking through
parasite can't kill mines, I'm not sure whether spit can though ... sidenote: stacking mines = not possible i tried it; if youre sure it is, screenies?
<!--QuoteBegin-SpaceJesus+Sep 1 2004, 12:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SpaceJesus @ Sep 1 2004, 12:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> parasite can't kill mines, I'm not sure whether spit can though ... sidenote: stacking mines = not possible i tried it; if youre sure it is, screenies? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Parasite can kill marines, it takes 10 HP damage so it just takes a while. Don't belive me try it out in a listenserver on a bot or somethin'
How is that spit working on mines does it need to be fired on the "legs" of mine or WTH? I havent got it......
For me at least it seems to be completely random (like armory healing to! do they share same logic <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
Mines have 25 hp. so why it takes 5 shots? because u play in ff. and the mine is friendly <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> one or 2 spits kill a mine. but usualy you have to spit from above.
I'm not sure about this, but I'm pretty sure that there are some irregularities in teh mine hitbox, so spitting at it from the side will rarely detonate it, whilst shooting it from above will hit the largest face of the hitbox and therefore be more likely to detonate it.
I have never experienced this problem myself and so this is the only explanation i can think of.
Comments
Spread out placement around that IP is great, skulk either explodes or gets telefragged. Rez node placements are nice too, i didn't think about putting them under the legs.
Sometimes I command and sometimes I do the grunt work as a marine, regardless, I always run into people who just don't know what to do with mines and it angers me. It kills me when I drop 2 packs of mines and I scream for them to be placed at a node or phase gate, and they just seem to disapear. Other times when we just finished a phase gate into a hostile hive and I yell for the com to "drop mines in base for the phase gate!!", and no response, not even a reason why not. He should have had two people ready to go with the mines before the phase gate even finished.
Also, back in the day i remember laying "onos" and "fade" traps: a pack of mines all placed directly ontop of eachother. When the same fade keeps coming back to pick on the same rez node and I ask a marine to lay a "fade trap" using the mines, i tell him to place them all ontop of eachother but 9 times out of 10 they end up spread out, usually not even at the resource node in question.
Do these traps still work? how many mines does it take to kill a full health fade or onos? It's probably more than 4, but that onos or fade probably isn't at full health so it might still die outright. If it lives, it's near death and REALLY confused, your marines can kill it. Yeah, a skulk can suicide into the mines, but that doesn't happen all that often. Anyone know the answers to the 'mine trap' questions?
I remember fade and onos traps back in the day <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
you can't place mines ontop of each other anymore but you can place them very, very close together.
Big point is you should put them in the middle of a doorway, or where there is a low ceiling, as this makes it very hard for the fade to blink over the mines.
I have seen these "traps" work, rarely. It all depends on how smart the fade is. I've seen bad fades get torched by hand nades and knifed into submission, but I've also seen hive 1 fades decimate squads of w3/a3 HMG'ers.
Personally I'd rather drop a few shotguns (for the same cost) on a pub, because these are more likely to be used well. A lot of pubbers simply won't know what a "fade trap" is, or how to implement one.
Added to the fact that shotguns are infinitely re-usable for taking down fades whereas mines are not.
Add to that that when fades turn up, hive2 will usually be going up, or finished. At hive 2 mines become redundant as gorge bilebomb and fade meta can make short work of any "fade traps" and of any base defences.
However, around the 4 minute mark, spreading mines out in the open areas of your base can deal a helpful hand in taking down fades. As any fade has to land sometime, they usually blink very low when they are going to swipe a marine, and will either land on a few mines or clip a few, with a couple of shotgunners dealing with the fade it should go down fairly easily. Even easier if you CC block the exits.
Since knock back exist most good marines will try to jump when the spawn, that either gives them time to find the skulk or if the skulk finds them, it gives them the range to kill the skulk, or the skulk hits a mine chasing him... On the IP = bad... around the IP like shown is effective and helps with general base defence...
Honestly, I think that if 7 mines explode and the fade is at or near the epicenter then it should be reduced it to giblets, even if it has carapace. At 6-8 for a wounding blow... are these landmines or firecrackers? Sounds like they need a near 50% damage boost to be effective against anything except a skulk...
reckon i'll head over to the suggestions forum and complain some...
Honestly, this thread deserves a sticky. It has valuable information, helpful pictures, and is newbie friendly.
If you're bored, you can try this: Replace 'Mines' with any other statc-type defense and it'll still work! Genius!
Here's a few shots of some tricks of mine:
1) underneath "lips" in level geometry - this is an example of mining near MS
<img src='http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v44/windelkron/ex1.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
2) underneath "lips" in level geometry - in an out-of-the-blue spot. in seldom used hallways like
these, enemies will <b>not</b> be careful.
<img src='http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v44/windelkron/ex5.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
3) on stairs - EXCELLENT trick. I've killed onos in 1 step with these (needed 2 packs, though)
<img src='http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v44/windelkron/ex2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
4) above ramps. This seems silly, but it works incredibly well - they just can't see it from the bottom.
<img src='http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v44/windelkron/ex4.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
5) creative mine placement - think how fast skulks come bounding out of caged's Sewer hive...
right into this mine.
<img src='http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v44/windelkron/ex3.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
feel free to add these to the first post if you want to.
Thanks for the pics, editing them in now.
(I wonder if a mod has even read this?)
If you haven't already, stick a link in the "Links To The Guides And Faqs" thread. That thread is pretty useful because it links to virtually everything you need, in fact if any thread would need sticky then it'd be that one.
Since most people assume you cant stack mines i get a lot of "WTH? was taht one mine!!111!!!" <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Since most people assume you cant stack mines i get a lot of "WTH? was taht one mine!!111!!!" <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Didn't know that, I could get some screenies and add another section, or you could get me some screenies and get a mention in the credits, what's it gonna be?
Since most people assume you cant stack mines i get a lot of "WTH? was taht one mine!!111!!!" <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
OMG H4X
Just make sure the mines don't block marines from walking through
Or so I recall.
it'll suck for marines if parasiting mines would detonate them.. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
sidenote: stacking mines = not possible i tried it; if youre sure it is, screenies?
sidenote: stacking mines = not possible i tried it; if youre sure it is, screenies? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Parasite can kill marines, it takes 10 HP damage so it just takes a while.
Don't belive me try it out in a listenserver on a bot or somethin'
Spit can kill mines btw.
1) that's silly and proves no purpose that I can ascertain.
2) pubs dont have that degree of teamwork, or of following orders
3) those mines are more likely to end up being dropped as the guy carrying them gets munched, in a pub.
For me at least it seems to be completely random (like armory healing to! do they share same logic <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
I have never experienced this problem myself and so this is the only explanation i can think of.