<!--QuoteBegin-Teppla+Oct 20 2004, 07:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Teppla @ Oct 20 2004, 07:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> When you finally open up your heart and let others bond with you, spiritually and mentally, you seriously grow as a person. And I think this thread shows the unity and kindness of the whole Microsoft community as a whole. I am glad to be a part of this thread and engage in highly intellectual and stimulating conversations about the struggles we go through every day just to get that extra level of gratitude and cultural adaptation in. I'd like to thank the people who contributed to this informative thread and let them know that I to was there fighting beside you, I to was there struggling, I to was there laughing in glee and also mourning in grief. But you know what? We pushed through and came out victorious. So to sum up this whole epic exchange of highly sophisticated and well thought out expression of opinions, my final words are "ario maio xi."
Let the dogs of pride be with you on your journey through the thousand seas. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I like to discuss world politics.
<!--QuoteBegin-Teppla+Oct 20 2004, 07:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Teppla @ Oct 20 2004, 07:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->When you finally open up your heart and let others bond with you, spiritually and mentally, you seriously grow as a person. And I think this thread shows the unity and kindness of the whole Microsoft community as a whole. I am glad to be a part of this thread and engage in highly intellectual and stimulating conversations about the struggles we go through every day just to get that extra level of gratitude and cultural adaptation in. I'd like to thank the people who contributed to this informative thread and let them know that I to was there fighting beside you, I to was there struggling, I to was there laughing in glee and also mourning in grief. But you know what? We pushed through and came out victorious. So to sum up this whole epic exchange of highly sophisticated and well thought out expression of opinions, my final words are "ario maio xi."
Let the dogs of pride be with you on your journey through the thousand seas.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-SentrySteve+Oct 20 2004, 03:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SentrySteve @ Oct 20 2004, 03:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--|HN|-_Prodigy_+Oct 20 2004, 06:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-|HN|-_Prodigy_ @ Oct 20 2004, 06:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There are 4 out of 80 playtesters that I can name off of the top of my head that actually have ANY skill at all
Blue Keyser Grendel User
Pathetic, I know. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Nah man, Grendel just screams at people over the mics.
A more accurate list would replace Magitek with Grendel. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Tek was definately skilled, but he seems to have gone missing and a couple of people I inquired don't know what happened to him. He is definately missed. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-crisano+Oct 20 2004, 07:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (crisano @ Oct 20 2004, 07:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-SentrySteve+Oct 20 2004, 03:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SentrySteve @ Oct 20 2004, 03:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--|HN|-_Prodigy_+Oct 20 2004, 06:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-|HN|-_Prodigy_ @ Oct 20 2004, 06:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There are 4 out of 80 playtesters that I can name off of the top of my head that actually have ANY skill at all
Blue Keyser Grendel User
Pathetic, I know. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Nah man, Grendel just screams at people over the mics.
A more accurate list would replace Magitek with Grendel. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Tek was definately skilled, but he seems to have gone missing and a couple of people I inquired don't know what happened to him. He is definately missed. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> HL2 went gold?
I have to say, the clanners have a pretty strong case. Devs and the 'higher-ups' have some explaining to do.
One sticking point though. If clanners/vets cared so much about the game, why did they skill stack during 2.0 beta testing? The way Forlorn told the story, it sounded like the marine bias in 2.0 is due to the vets skill stacking aliens so that they will win. If they actually cared for the game as much as you guys say, why didnt they play with even teams in hopes of achieving balance instead of stacking to win?
<!--QuoteBegin-Umbraed Monkey+Oct 20 2004, 02:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Umbraed Monkey @ Oct 20 2004, 02:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I have to say, the clanners have a pretty strong case. Devs and the 'higher-ups' have some explaining to do.
One sticking point though. If clanners/vets cared so much about the game, why did they skill stack during 2.0 beta testing? The way Forlorn told the story, it sounded like the marine bias in 2.0 is due to the vets skill stacking aliens so that they will win. If they actually cared for the game as much as you guys say, why didnt they play with even teams in hopes of achieving balance instead of stacking to win? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You also should have read that those guys are not considered veterens by ANY of us. They were people who merely got the icon for being in a clan, and therefor were in the playtest.
The true veterens now are mostly iconless, with the several good vets that remain.
<!--QuoteBegin--|HN|-_Prodigy_+Oct 20 2004, 02:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-|HN|-_Prodigy_ @ Oct 20 2004, 02:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Umbraed Monkey+Oct 20 2004, 02:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Umbraed Monkey @ Oct 20 2004, 02:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I have to say, the clanners have a pretty strong case. Devs and the 'higher-ups' have some explaining to do.
One sticking point though. If clanners/vets cared so much about the game, why did they skill stack during 2.0 beta testing? The way Forlorn told the story, it sounded like the marine bias in 2.0 is due to the vets skill stacking aliens so that they will win. If they actually cared for the game as much as you guys say, why didnt they play with even teams in hopes of achieving balance instead of stacking to win? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You also should have read that those guys are not considered veterens by ANY of us. They were people who merely got the icon for being in a clan, and therefor were in the playtest.
The true veterens now are mostly iconless, with the several good vets that remain. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Im talking about 2.0b (1.1) vets. You are thinking 3.0b (2.1) send-an-email-and-get-an-icon vets.
2.0b vets were the well respected top 1.0 clanners, right?
1.1 vets stacked against PT's Being heard is this right here, and if this thread get's locked, and this conversation not followed upon.. I quit. Period.
<!--QuoteBegin-Gecko God Of DOOOM+Oct 20 2004, 03:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gecko God Of DOOOM @ Oct 20 2004, 03:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Thus this prods the question. How do we become heard? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I&S
The problem here comes down to pure business it seems. The bosses (Devs) are looking for people that will work with them and communicate. So far from this thread very few people actually are working with each other per-say. You cant get a job in the real world when you walk up to you boss -- being one of the first times you have met him going, 'You have it all wrong... you have to do it this way that way and that way to get it right!!!!." You have to come in and just accept the way it is first, point and blank. Then once they have gotten used to you then you can start the this is wrong, that is wrong, can we try it this way.
I would think that HAMBONE would of taken this approach and gotten to Fly that way, but idk so ill leave it at that.
There is a case were this would not be true, and that is if you were hired to do that kind of work, to tell where things were wrong. Only problem is non of us are hired and are being asked for this information.
I don’t think that any one on these forums will be able to get any kind of job or listening from the devs if we come in screaming. Its a madder of business.
Beta testing would fall into the second case you stated. Beta testers are there to point out faults in the game before they become a full version. Bugs, faults, possible imbalances are suppose to be pointed out. This could then be taken a step further, working with devs and whatnot to help fix what could be faults in the game.
Though screaming is never the solution, there are many here who have used or would use mature attitudes to talk about possible solutions to a problem or talk about possible faults in the game.
maybe have the NS community "electing" one person whos is Calm minded, can listen the screaming hordes of people, Turn it into a logical sense and statement, then aprouch the devs in a good manner, thats civil.
And I do agree that the devs should take more input from the top clanners since they DO know what works out the best and what can be considered overpowered.
This is the reasoning I have from sycthe as far as being banned from #naturalselection btw:
· · Kicks: you were kicked from #naturalselection by [ ChanServ ] : [ (Scythe-) You've long overstayed your welcome. Goodbye. ]
Being unliked is now an bannable offense. Should that be added to the rules?
Redford,
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You "care" about the game, yet you freely disrupt and destroy it's community with your eletist attitude in the same breath. Your self-contradiction is amazing to behold. If you really did "care" about the game you would stop being an arse to everyone and actually help both the game and the community, and THEN you might be conisdered for playtester, and you could do some real help for the game, which is clearly what you wish to do, attitudes aside.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would be absolutely amazed if you could provide just one example.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So, forlorn, do you care enough about NS to care about the community and eventually perform a greater good to it's development instead of standing around in the forums and yelling about how the devs should listen to you because you are so leet at NS that everything you say must be right? I assure you that you are on the track of being banned totally and completly unless you can change your attitude, and by doing so, you will not only assure that people listen to what you say, but you will also increase your chances of actually helping the game you care about.
Is it time to make a stand, or are you going to childishly hold onto the notion that you can change NS by making everyone on these forums hate you? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First, 'everyone' is not forum royality.
Second, I do care about NS. If you don't know, I spent over 500 dollars to go the CPL, where my primary motavations were:
- NS - See cri people in person - Meet Flayra - Show NS off to others
I know that's very counter-productive. But let me defend myself:
- For one I talked with Flayra for over 8 (or was it 9) hours in person. (not all at once, lol) We talked about a lot of things NS, ranging from original pics of NS pre-1.0 to the current state of NS. I even got to teach him how to bhop. (For those who are not competetive... learning to bhop is like your introduction into becoming competetive, marks the start of most people becoming better players. Teaching someone and then watching them become good is somewhat of an honor :o )
- I talked to over 100 people in one day asking them at the BYOC area to install NS. The other competetive players there helped. Pnunematic crab, nice kid, created an installer that not only installed NS beta 3, but then beta 4 and beta 4a right after so new people could pick up the game easily. Just one exe which ran them all. We then used Porcha's computer as a file host off the LAN network there. My role was being hte non-social and hatable person I am, I went to like every person that met one criteria: Was just viewing their desktop and not actually playing another game. I followed a simple sales pitch:
-- Question (Ever hear of Natural Selection? Wanna play it?) -- Response (Either they say yes, and I say join our server, who was being hosted by TAU (more worthless elitist players I'm sure). If they say yes but do not have the game, I point them to the installer and then the server in game, and say "meet you later, my in game name is forlorn!" If they say they do not want to play it, I ask them "Would you like to play it later on maybe?" If they say no again I leave, but if they say "sure' or "why not" then I got them to install it. I even got people from pro-CS teams to install it, like coL, and some dude from sK.) -- The leave (Always leave with a friendly impression)
Took about 2 hours, but after I combed the entire BYOC area, we actually got enough players in game to play a regular game of NS instead of combat.
That one was thing I did.
After that, I talked to flay about a lot of things and manged to convince him on a few things and earned his respect (I think...). Here is a changelog I gave to him about combat:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->o Aliens respawn as skulk always o You can only evolve once from skulk o Dying with a larger lifeform gives you back their upgrades oo Going gorge costs 1 point oo Going lerk costs 2 points oo Going fade costs 3 points oo Going onos costs 4 points o Evolution times are increased to 1/2 of what they are in regular NS oo Gorge = 8 seconds oo Lerk = 10 seconds oo Fade = 12 seconds oo Onos = 20 seconds o Teams spawn in 1/3 of the enemies teamsize at a whack o One wave spawn occurs every 10 seconds o Mirror damage = on (to discourage GL spam)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What changes went into b5? I'm sure you can figure this one out.
As for the regular NS changes... about 50% of those I said were inside of b5. I'm sure there were at least a few PT's who said some of the same things I did, but that is irrelevent - the point is I'm on the right track. I also got the opprotunity to talk with Flay and understand his development process. I learned quite a bit. Then we pubbed, and that was about it. And watched the CS matches, boy those were pretty fun to watch.
That is just one example of something I have done for NS. Not limited was my attempts with:
- NSDraft (pug type league, bad top leadership) - MLNS (NS tourney with prizes, bad top leadership) - The first video's of the PSHB I sent to matchbox who then got into the hands of saraph. Saraph went on a hell bent craze to find out the nature of this bug and eventually was fixed by Vavle.
Those are the things I can think off the top of my head. OH yeah, I've trained a few players here and there, maybe like 5 or so of them.
But all of this is pointless, the real question Redford, which I'm sure you doubtless can answer easily since I am someone who only destroys this community, what are your numerous accomplishments and successes for this community?
Please I do not mean to be offensive, if you could hear my text right now you'd see I'm calm and curious. What have you done?
Bobthejanitor,
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->On the other hand, you have people getting leaked bits of out-of-context information that may or may not be true, and completely flipping out about it. A bit of a contradiction, yes? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you saying I am not telling the truth? I have no reasons to lie.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->One sticking point though. If clanners/vets cared so much about the game, why did they skill stack during 2.0 beta testing? The way Forlorn told the story, it sounded like the marine bias in 2.0 is due to the vets skill stacking aliens so that they will win. If they actually cared for the game as much as you guys say, why didnt they play with even teams in hopes of achieving balance instead of stacking to win?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They stacked as they felt powerless to the devs and PT's, so stacking to the devs was their statement of "Change or we just aren't going to work like this." Which did not exactly work, but I believe that was the intent... not to mention I'm sure stacking and beating the crap out of the royalty of the time was fun.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Iconless vet, reporting in. As for the 1.1-2.0 playtest, I don't remember any stacking problems...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can go find the topics yourself if you do not believe me....
<!--QuoteBegin-Gecko God Of DOOOM+Oct 20 2004, 08:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gecko God Of DOOOM @ Oct 20 2004, 08:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> maybe have the NS community "electing" one person whos is Calm minded, can listen the screaming hordes of people, Turn it into a logical sense and statement, then aprouch the devs in a good manner, thats civil. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Forlorn.... oh wait maybe not <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Id really like to see forlorn having some say about the balance, but I dont see that happening since a lot of people on this forum hate him.
<!--QuoteBegin-Gecko God Of DOOOM+Oct 20 2004, 02:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gecko God Of DOOOM @ Oct 20 2004, 02:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> maybe have the NS community "electing" one person whos is Calm minded, can listen the screaming hordes of people, Turn it into a logical sense and statement, then aprouch the devs in a good manner, thats civil. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> no need. we have Zunni. If he can tame I&S, this should be a breeze <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I suggest the few clanners that we have left get together and make a big list of suggestions and send it to Zunni. If nothing gets through, collectively leave the game and let it rot.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->not to mention I'm sure stacking and beating the crap out of the royalty of the time was fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And obviously counter-productive. It was both party's faults, tbh.
it would have to be something like. 2/3 of the people can agree on the person. He hasn't irritaded most of the devs/ops/mods alot. Hasn't irritated a bunch of the community. And is able to show respect even when getting called a complete idiot, and keep a level head.
although zunni has be doing very very well on keep track of everything. Though I dont kow if this type of topic pretains to him. I could be wrong how ever.
<!--QuoteBegin-Umbraed Monkey+Oct 20 2004, 02:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Umbraed Monkey @ Oct 20 2004, 02:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I suggest the few clanners that we have left get together and make a big list of suggestions and send it to Zunni. If nothing gets through, collectively leave the game and let it rot. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> A bit couter productive isnt it?
O they dont liston so lets just quit?
I would hope the spirit would be more, they didnt accept, so lets see why and see what we can do diffrently. Id hope more would elect that then just up lets just leave. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
idle threats like having the entire clan base leaving will never go over well to achive your goals..or the goals some of us in this forum would like see achevied
<!--QuoteBegin-Gecko God Of DOOOM+Oct 20 2004, 03:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gecko God Of DOOOM @ Oct 20 2004, 03:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> idle threats like having the entire clan base leaving will never go over well to achive your goals..or the goals some of us in this forum would like see achevied <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> yea yea...I just didnt know a good way to end the post. So anyway, what crazynet said.
Comments
Let the dogs of pride be with you on your journey through the thousand seas. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like to discuss world politics.
Let the dogs of pride be with you on your journey through the thousand seas.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I concur
Blue
Keyser
Grendel
User
Pathetic, I know. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nah man, Grendel just screams at people over the mics.
A more accurate list would replace Magitek with Grendel. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Tek was definately skilled, but he seems to have gone missing and a couple of people I inquired don't know what happened to him. He is definately missed. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Blue
Keyser
Grendel
User
Pathetic, I know. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nah man, Grendel just screams at people over the mics.
A more accurate list would replace Magitek with Grendel. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Tek was definately skilled, but he seems to have gone missing and a couple of people I inquired don't know what happened to him. He is definately missed. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
HL2 went gold?
One sticking point though. If clanners/vets cared so much about the game, why did they skill stack during 2.0 beta testing? The way Forlorn told the story, it sounded like the marine bias in 2.0 is due to the vets skill stacking aliens so that they will win. If they actually cared for the game as much as you guys say, why didnt they play with even teams in hopes of achieving balance instead of stacking to win?
Well... from what I've read, I'ld just like to say that skill, although it may help, does not mean that one is awesome at balancing a game.
One sticking point though. If clanners/vets cared so much about the game, why did they skill stack during 2.0 beta testing? The way Forlorn told the story, it sounded like the marine bias in 2.0 is due to the vets skill stacking aliens so that they will win. If they actually cared for the game as much as you guys say, why didnt they play with even teams in hopes of achieving balance instead of stacking to win? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You also should have read that those guys are not considered veterens by ANY of us.
They were people who merely got the icon for being in a clan, and therefor were in the playtest.
The true veterens now are mostly iconless, with the several good vets that remain.
One sticking point though. If clanners/vets cared so much about the game, why did they skill stack during 2.0 beta testing? The way Forlorn told the story, it sounded like the marine bias in 2.0 is due to the vets skill stacking aliens so that they will win. If they actually cared for the game as much as you guys say, why didnt they play with even teams in hopes of achieving balance instead of stacking to win? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You also should have read that those guys are not considered veterens by ANY of us.
They were people who merely got the icon for being in a clan, and therefor were in the playtest.
The true veterens now are mostly iconless, with the several good vets that remain. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Im talking about 2.0b (1.1) vets. You are thinking 3.0b (2.1) send-an-email-and-get-an-icon vets.
2.0b vets were the well respected top 1.0 clanners, right?
...unless I have my history mixed up.
How do we become heard?
Being heard is this right here, and if this thread get's locked, and this conversation not followed upon.. I quit. Period.
How do we become heard? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I&S
^-^
I would think that HAMBONE would of taken this approach and gotten to Fly that way, but idk so ill leave it at that.
There is a case were this would not be true, and that is if you were hired to do that kind of work, to tell where things were wrong. Only problem is non of us are hired and are being asked for this information.
I don’t think that any one on these forums will be able to get any kind of job or listening from the devs if we come in screaming. Its a madder of business.
Iconless vet, reporting in. As for the 1.1-2.0 playtest, I don't remember any stacking problems...
Though screaming is never the solution, there are many here who have used or would use mature attitudes to talk about possible solutions to a problem or talk about possible faults in the game.
And I do agree that the devs should take more input from the top clanners since they DO know what works out the best and what can be considered overpowered.
· · Kicks: you were kicked from #naturalselection by [ ChanServ ] : [ (Scythe-) You've long overstayed your welcome. Goodbye. ]
Being unliked is now an bannable offense. Should that be added to the rules?
Redford,
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You "care" about the game, yet you freely disrupt and destroy it's community with your eletist attitude in the same breath. Your self-contradiction is amazing to behold. If you really did "care" about the game you would stop being an arse to everyone and actually help both the game and the community, and THEN you might be conisdered for playtester, and you could do some real help for the game, which is clearly what you wish to do, attitudes aside.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would be absolutely amazed if you could provide just one example.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So, forlorn, do you care enough about NS to care about the community and eventually perform a greater good to it's development instead of standing around in the forums and yelling about how the devs should listen to you because you are so leet at NS that everything you say must be right? I assure you that you are on the track of being banned totally and completly unless you can change your attitude, and by doing so, you will not only assure that people listen to what you say, but you will also increase your chances of actually helping the game you care about.
Is it time to make a stand, or are you going to childishly hold onto the notion that you can change NS by making everyone on these forums hate you?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First, 'everyone' is not forum royality.
Second, I do care about NS. If you don't know, I spent over 500 dollars to go the CPL, where my primary motavations were:
- NS
- See cri people in person
- Meet Flayra
- Show NS off to others
I know that's very counter-productive. But let me defend myself:
- For one I talked with Flayra for over 8 (or was it 9) hours in person. (not all at once, lol) We talked about a lot of things NS, ranging from original pics of NS pre-1.0 to the current state of NS. I even got to teach him how to bhop. (For those who are not competetive... learning to bhop is like your introduction into becoming competetive, marks the start of most people becoming better players. Teaching someone and then watching them become good is somewhat of an honor :o )
- I talked to over 100 people in one day asking them at the BYOC area to install NS. The other competetive players there helped. Pnunematic crab, nice kid, created an installer that not only installed NS beta 3, but then beta 4 and beta 4a right after so new people could pick up the game easily. Just one exe which ran them all. We then used Porcha's computer as a file host off the LAN network there. My role was being hte non-social and hatable person I am, I went to like every person that met one criteria: Was just viewing their desktop and not actually playing another game. I followed a simple sales pitch:
-- Question (Ever hear of Natural Selection? Wanna play it?)
-- Response (Either they say yes, and I say join our server, who was being hosted by TAU (more worthless elitist players I'm sure). If they say yes but do not have the game, I point them to the installer and then the server in game, and say "meet you later, my in game name is forlorn!" If they say they do not want to play it, I ask them "Would you like to play it later on maybe?" If they say no again I leave, but if they say "sure' or "why not" then I got them to install it. I even got people from pro-CS teams to install it, like coL, and some dude from sK.)
-- The leave (Always leave with a friendly impression)
Took about 2 hours, but after I combed the entire BYOC area, we actually got enough players in game to play a regular game of NS instead of combat.
That one was thing I did.
After that, I talked to flay about a lot of things and manged to convince him on a few things and earned his respect (I think...). Here is a changelog I gave to him about combat:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->o Aliens respawn as skulk always
o You can only evolve once from skulk
o Dying with a larger lifeform gives you back their upgrades
oo Going gorge costs 1 point
oo Going lerk costs 2 points
oo Going fade costs 3 points
oo Going onos costs 4 points
o Evolution times are increased to 1/2 of what they are in regular NS
oo Gorge = 8 seconds
oo Lerk = 10 seconds
oo Fade = 12 seconds
oo Onos = 20 seconds
o Teams spawn in 1/3 of the enemies teamsize at a whack
o One wave spawn occurs every 10 seconds
o Mirror damage = on (to discourage GL spam)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What changes went into b5? I'm sure you can figure this one out.
As for the regular NS changes... about 50% of those I said were inside of b5. I'm sure there were at least a few PT's who said some of the same things I did, but that is irrelevent - the point is I'm on the right track.
I also got the opprotunity to talk with Flay and understand his development process. I learned quite a bit.
Then we pubbed, and that was about it. And watched the CS matches, boy those were pretty fun to watch.
That is just one example of something I have done for NS. Not limited was my attempts with:
- NSDraft (pug type league, bad top leadership)
- MLNS (NS tourney with prizes, bad top leadership)
- The first video's of the PSHB I sent to matchbox who then got into the hands of saraph. Saraph went on a hell bent craze to find out the nature of this bug and eventually was fixed by Vavle.
Those are the things I can think off the top of my head. OH yeah, I've trained a few players here and there, maybe like 5 or so of them.
But all of this is pointless, the real question Redford, which I'm sure you doubtless can answer easily since I am someone who only destroys this community, what are your numerous accomplishments and successes for this community?
Please I do not mean to be offensive, if you could hear my text right now you'd see I'm calm and curious. What have you done?
Bobthejanitor,
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->On the other hand, you have people getting leaked bits of out-of-context information that may or may not be true, and completely flipping out about it. A bit of a contradiction, yes?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you saying I am not telling the truth? I have no reasons to lie.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->One sticking point though. If clanners/vets cared so much about the game, why did they skill stack during 2.0 beta testing? The way Forlorn told the story, it sounded like the marine bias in 2.0 is due to the vets skill stacking aliens so that they will win. If they actually cared for the game as much as you guys say, why didnt they play with even teams in hopes of achieving balance instead of stacking to win?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They stacked as they felt powerless to the devs and PT's, so stacking to the devs was their statement of "Change or we just aren't going to work like this." Which did not exactly work, but I believe that was the intent... not to mention I'm sure stacking and beating the crap out of the royalty of the time was fun.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Iconless vet, reporting in. As for the 1.1-2.0 playtest, I don't remember any stacking problems...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can go find the topics yourself if you do not believe me....
Forlorn.... oh wait maybe not <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Id really like to see forlorn having some say about the balance, but I dont see that happening since a lot of people on this forum hate him.
no need. we have Zunni. If he can tame I&S, this should be a breeze <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I suggest the few clanners that we have left get together and make a big list of suggestions and send it to Zunni. If nothing gets through, collectively leave the game and let it rot.
edit: 'vet'->'clanner'
And obviously counter-productive.
It was both party's faults, tbh.
we are? wheres my paycheck <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
although zunni has be doing very very well on keep track of everything. Though I dont kow if this type of topic pretains to him. I could be wrong how ever.
Well put Forlorn.
Regards,
stankattack
A bit couter productive isnt it?
O they dont liston so lets just quit?
I would hope the spirit would be more, they didnt accept, so lets see why and see what we can do diffrently. Id hope more would elect that then just up lets just leave. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
yea yea...I just didnt know a good way to end the post. So anyway, what crazynet said.