Flayra Interview

SupernornSupernorn Best. Picture. Ever. Made. Ever. Join Date: 2002-11-07 Member: 7608Members, Constellation
edited February 2005 in NS General Discussion
<div class="IPBDescription">Its new news! (says Zunni)</div> <a href='http://www.cgonline.com/content/view/360/2/' target='_blank'>http://www.cgonline.com/content/view/360/2/</a>


<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Computer Games - Will this be the final version of the mod for the original Half-Life?

Charlie Cleveland - No.  We're planning on releasing v3.1 in another four to six weeks, which will have an exciting new system that we've been working for quite some time.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Yeah right Charlie. We all know its going to be renamed V4.0 and be released in 6-8 months time. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
«13

Comments

  • MendaspMendasp I touch maps in inappropriate places Valencia, Spain Join Date: 2002-07-05 Member: 884Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Retired Community Developer
    <!--QuoteBegin-Supernorn+Feb 25 2005, 04:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Supernorn @ Feb 25 2005, 04:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yeah right Charlie. We all know its going to be renamed V4.0 and be released in 6-8 months time. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I'll be happy if I don't have to compile my maps 6-7 times each in the process.
  • AlcapwnAlcapwn &quot;War is the science of destruction&quot; - John Abbot Join Date: 2003-06-21 Member: 17590Members
    Four-six weeks seems very like very little time between 3.0 final and 3.1 final.... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • napinapi Join Date: 2003-03-01 Member: 14172Members, Constellation
    the interview was good, but there is one bit that stands out and really does make me happy;

    <!--QuoteBegin-Flayra+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flayra)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->We want to release smaller versions more frequently...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    FINALLY! A dev team who sees the sense in this.. I know it will cause problems in its own right (quite harsh for people on 56k/64k downloading large installs more regularly) but the benefits are brilliant - one of the biggest causes of 'splits' in communitise like NS are when a big new version is released, with lots of changes...

    some of the people love it, some of the people don't mind, but an equal number of people hate it (generally ... not always obviously) - by doing small releases with fewer changes per release, if the game starts to drift 'off course' with how the majority of people enjoy it being, then it gives the devs a far more viable option of undoing the changes and going back (obviously only if they want to..)
  • AlcapwnAlcapwn &quot;War is the science of destruction&quot; - John Abbot Join Date: 2003-06-21 Member: 17590Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-shanks+Feb 25 2005, 11:01 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (shanks @ Feb 25 2005, 11:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> the interview was good, but there is one bit that stands out and really does make me happy;

    <!--QuoteBegin-Flayra+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flayra)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->We want to release smaller versions more frequently...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    FINALLY! A dev team who sees the sense in this.. I know it will cause problems in its own right (quite harsh for people on 56k/64k downloading large installs more regularly) but the benefits are brilliant - one of the biggest causes of 'splits' in communitise like NS are when a big new version is released, with lots of changes...

    some of the people love it, some of the people don't mind, but an equal number of people hate it (generally ... not always obviously) - by doing small releases with fewer changes per release, if the game starts to drift 'off course' with how the majority of people enjoy it being, then it gives the devs a far more viable option of undoing the changes and going back (obviously only if they want to..) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    People who play NS shouldnt have 56k anyway. Its just not for them. `
  • UKchaosUKchaos Join Date: 2002-08-10 Member: 1132Members
    Ohh the Bus is comming! The biggest anti-climax ever probably <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • StarchyStarchy Join Date: 2003-04-21 Member: 15727Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> NS 3.1 will also include balance changes that arise after 3.0 and possibly a few new maps (including one from Merkaba, of ns_hera fame). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yay, sounds great! Nice interview.
  • CrispyCrispy Jaded GD Join Date: 2004-08-22 Member: 30793Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Interview+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Interview)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Computer Games - Finally is there anything else you wish to say about Natural Selection and Unknown Worlds?

    Charlie Cleveland - We're actively looking for passionate investors that are willing to invest $50,000 or more.  If you're <s>an investor</s> <u>filthy rich</u> and want to get involved in games, contact me (Charlie Cleveland) through the Unknown Worlds site and I'll send you an investor summary or business plan.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    From one filthy plug to another <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    At least the port gives me a bit more time to finish ns_solace, I'm so glad I spent all this time on the layout and concept with only basic brushwork instead of perfecting it room by room. Porting and finishing Solace will be much less aggravating.

    <!--QuoteBegin-Interview+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Interview)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->We're planning on releasing v3.1 in another four to six weeks, which will have an exciting new system that we've been working for quite some time.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    - Intrigue <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    Well what i saw there was the first confirmation that NS:Source is definitely gonna happen, for a minute i was beginning to have doubts. I say good luck to charlie and the rest of the unknown world's team for trying to get a foothold in a very difficult business, and i really hope it succeeds, although we may not all love games such as NS 2 when it finally appears, at least we know that they are listening to the wants of people, and they are fighting against the corporation! Yay for the independents!!
  • radforChristradforChrist USA Join Date: 2002-11-04 Member: 6871Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Subnautica Playtester
    <!--QuoteBegin-shanks+Feb 25 2005, 11:01 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (shanks @ Feb 25 2005, 11:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> the interview was good, but there is one bit that stands out and really does make me happy;

    <!--QuoteBegin-Flayra+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flayra)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->We want to release smaller versions more frequently...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    FINALLY! A dev team who sees the sense in this.. I know it will cause problems in its own right (quite harsh for people on 56k/64k downloading large installs more regularly) but the benefits are brilliant - one of the biggest causes of 'splits' in communitise like NS are when a big new version is released, with lots of changes...

    some of the people love it, some of the people don't mind, but an equal number of people hate it (generally ... not always obviously) - by doing small releases with fewer changes per release, if the game starts to drift 'off course' with how the majority of people enjoy it being, then it gives the devs a far more viable option of undoing the changes and going back (obviously only if they want to..) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Actually, if pushed into the My Games list, I'm sure it will auto update like CS and the like...

    I'm really hoping the NS team stands behind this, and we see constant updates (or news of why the delays). Pre5 is a good showing that NS is heading this way...
  • daidalosdaidalos Join Date: 2004-05-23 Member: 28854Members, Constellation
    edited February 2005
    <!--QuoteBegin-Charlie Cleveland+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Charlie Cleveland)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->We've gotten really excited about some of the new features we could implement on Source, like the Onos charge that sends marine ragdolls flying, aliens bashing down weldable doors, marines arriving to their map start via dropships, etc.  Once the loose ends are tied up on 3.0/3.1, we'll get right to work.  We've been staffing up in anticipation.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    yay, dropship ftw!

    <!--QuoteBegin-Caboose+ Red Vs Blue--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Caboose @ Red Vs Blue)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So I say to the guy, "How are you going to get the tanks down to the planet?" And
    he goes, "I'll just put it on the ship." And I go, "If you've got a ship that can carry a
    tank, why not just put guns on the ship and use it instead?"
    <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    Really looking forward to the BUS. But I know, I shouldn´t do this <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
    The Update-thin is also very good, bet then I think it would be better if NS was supported by Valve and it would load the updates automatically.
    I don´t know, but it is always difficult to find a good server, because everyone else wants that update too <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
  • ReKReK Join Date: 2004-08-30 Member: 31058Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
    Is flay going to do that pre-buy NS2 thing still? If he is, he might want to start soon, seeing as it would really help UWE.
  • mind_shiftmind_shift Join Date: 2004-06-07 Member: 29165Members
    NS:S and Garry's Mod

    *drools*

    Cant Wait for it
  • ReKReK Join Date: 2004-08-30 Member: 31058Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
    <!--QuoteBegin-mind shift+Feb 25 2005, 12:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (mind shift @ Feb 25 2005, 12:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> NS:S and Garry's Mod

    *drools*

    Cant Wait for it <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Obst's wildest dreams come true!
  • monk3ymonk3y Join Date: 2003-10-30 Member: 22139Members
    I want my flamethrower!!! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • AlkillerAlkiller Join Date: 2004-05-23 Member: 28847Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Computer Games - Will this be the final version of the mod for the original Half-Life?

    Charlie Cleveland - No.  We're planning on releasing v3.1 in another four to six weeks, which will have an exciting new system that we've been working for quite some time.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Oh noes, a release date. Zunni's gonna flip <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • KungFuDiscoMonkeyKungFuDiscoMonkey Creator of ns_altair 日本福岡県 Join Date: 2003-03-15 Member: 14555Members, NS1 Playtester, Reinforced - Onos
    /me starts ns_altair_source
    <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • DragonMechDragonMech Join Date: 2003-09-19 Member: 21023Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--QuoteBegin-KungFuDiscoMonkey+Feb 25 2005, 03:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (KungFuDiscoMonkey @ Feb 25 2005, 03:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> /me starts ns_altair_source
    <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    DIBS ON PLAYTESTING!!1!!oneoneelevenone
  • FreddehFreddeh Join Date: 2003-07-29 Member: 18520Members, Constellation
    NEXT DIBS ON PLAYTESTING!!!!!!!!!!1!11!!!!
  • Invader_ScootInvader_Scoot Join Date: 2003-10-13 Member: 21669Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--QuoteBegin-Supernorn+Feb 25 2005, 09:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Supernorn @ Feb 25 2005, 09:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Computer Games - Will this be the final version of the mod for the original Half-Life?

    Charlie Cleveland - No.  We're planning on releasing v3.1 in another four to six weeks, which will have an exciting new system that we've been working for quite some time.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Why? Why another release date that will not be met? As awesome as it sounds, the chances of a version coming out that quickly is just insane.
  • Tak3rTak3r Join Date: 2004-02-16 Member: 26625Members, Constellation
    edited February 2005
    Will the consties get to test NS:S?... or will it be a public test?.... or is this unknown at the time?.... or am i just stupid? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    [EDIT] BTW nice interview.
  • UKchaosUKchaos Join Date: 2002-08-10 Member: 1132Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-KungFuDiscoMonkey+Feb 25 2005, 09:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (KungFuDiscoMonkey @ Feb 25 2005, 09:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> /me starts ns_altair_source
    <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I think its more suited to the doom 3 engine.
  • kill4thrillskill4thrills Join Date: 2004-06-24 Member: 29506Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-UKchaos+Feb 25 2005, 02:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (UKchaos @ Feb 25 2005, 02:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-KungFuDiscoMonkey+Feb 25 2005, 09:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (KungFuDiscoMonkey @ Feb 25 2005, 09:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> /me starts ns_altair_source
    <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I think its more suited to the doom 3 engine. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    agreed

    so... anyone willing to give $50,000... or MORE... to flayra? anyone?
  • FlayraFlayra Game Director, Unknown Worlds Entertainment San Francisco Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 3Super Administrators, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer
    Scoot, are you looking to take over the "Community Naysayer" role?

    Note that I didn't promise a release date, I just indicated what we're shooting for. And Zunni already flipped. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • ZunniZunni The best thing to happen to I&amp;S in a long while Join Date: 2002-11-26 Member: 10016Members
    edited February 2005
    Great interview Flay...

    As for flipping... let me just say I've been in software too long to fall for the old "when's it coming out" trick..

    Now I must teach Flayra..

    /me chases Flayra with a rubber stamp with "NO DATES" on it..
    /me catches Flayra..
    /me stamps Flayra..
    /me runs
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Join Date: 2003-11-28 Member: 23688
    dont you have something to be stitching mr <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • ZunniZunni The best thing to happen to I&amp;S in a long while Join Date: 2002-11-26 Member: 10016Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->dont you have something to be stitching mr  <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Need supplies.. that will happen tomorrow.;..

    No worries, progress will be made this weekend..
  • ZavaroZavaro Tucson, Arizona Join Date: 2005-02-14 Member: 41174Members, Super Administrators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
    edited February 2005
    NEXT NEXT DIBS ON PLAYTESTING!!!!!!!!!!1!11!!!!

    I'm intrigued on this new 'reload' thing.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Join Date: 2003-11-28 Member: 23688
    ehh you get to do that while i have to make documents about the narrative structure and representation in LOR movies, on yey the fun <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    and the BUS.... ohhhhh.... im not gonna sleep tonight <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • MendaspMendasp I touch maps in inappropriate places Valencia, Spain Join Date: 2002-07-05 Member: 884Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Retired Community Developer
    <!--QuoteBegin-KungFuDiscoMonkey+Feb 25 2005, 10:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (KungFuDiscoMonkey @ Feb 25 2005, 10:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> /me starts ns_altair_source
    <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I always win!
  • KungFuDiscoMonkeyKungFuDiscoMonkey Creator of ns_altair 日本福岡県 Join Date: 2003-03-15 Member: 14555Members, NS1 Playtester, Reinforced - Onos
    You maintain bast. You NEVER win.
This discussion has been closed.