<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In YOUR oppinion, which fortunately doesn't count in the court's decisions or Jeb Bush's for that matter.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, in my opinion as someone that has read and understand the affidavits in question and has some expertise in these matters, yes.
But also in the opinion of the court system, which has pointed out the glaring flaws in the sorts of arguments made.
And frankly, I don't see how can avoid most of what I said with "that's your opinion." It's NOT just my opinion that most of the 30 haven't even seen her actual medical record, and are just going off clueless media video. Many of they even say that. It's NOT just my opinion that none of them confront the actual clinical findings that basically make most of what they say irrelevant and misinformed.
<!--QuoteBegin-Grendel+Mar 24 2005, 11:57 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Grendel @ Mar 24 2005, 11:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-lolfighter+Mar 24 2005, 05:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (lolfighter @ Mar 24 2005, 05:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Disconnect the life support. If God wills that she shall live, she <i>will</i> live. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The logic is unassailable. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Except for the whole "Don't test God" thing. The Devil told Jesus to jump off a building, saying that God would save him, and Jesus quoted scripture saying that no one should ever test God to save him by purposefully putting himself in danger. I'm certain someone more familiar with the Bible could further elaborate this.
That_Annoying_KidSire of TitlesJoin Date: 2003-03-01Member: 14175Members, Constellation
^^
okay, I'm heated at some right winger I just saw on CNN
he kept upsing words like "judicial murder" and travisty, and was even questioned "if she dies, who is to blame" and he instantly replied "I blame the judge, and the husband who obviously wants to murder her"
It was totally ethos, and was the weakest argument for her I've heard, but they way he was speaking made me want to come here and rail on him in the thread.
This is literally a no brainer, well at least higher brainer...
<!--QuoteBegin-Apos+Mar 24 2005, 02:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Apos @ Mar 24 2005, 02:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In YOUR oppinion, which fortunately doesn't count in the court's decisions or Jeb Bush's for that matter.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, in my opinion as someone that has read and understand the affidavits in question and has some expertise in these matters, yes.
But also in the opinion of the court system, which has pointed out the glaring flaws in the sorts of arguments made.
And frankly, I don't see how can avoid most of what I said with "that's your opinion." It's NOT just my opinion that most of the 30 haven't even seen her actual medical record, and are just going off clueless media video. Many of they even say that. It's NOT just my opinion that none of them confront the actual clinical findings that basically make most of what they say irrelevant and misinformed. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If it's NOT, then post what you have found.
<!--QuoteBegin-Grendel+Mar 24 2005, 05:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Grendel @ Mar 24 2005, 05:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-lolfighter+Mar 24 2005, 05:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (lolfighter @ Mar 24 2005, 05:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Disconnect the life support. If God wills that she shall live, she <i>will</i> live. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The logic is unassailable.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, it's not. I could shoot you in the head and claim that your death was the will of God. After all, if he hadn't wanted you to die, he would've saved you, right? I guess I was just trolling.
For all intents and purposes she is dead. <a href='http://img91.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img91&image=schiavoctscan6cj.jpg' target='_blank'>http://img91.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img91&image...voctscan6cj.jpg</a> That's a side by side comparison of Terri's brain and a healthy human one. Not the dark blue/black. That's spinal fluid. Her entire Cerebral Cortex is spinal fluid. There is no recovery from that. She is 100% gone and has been for 15 goddamn years.
Also the people bringing it up how he made 300k off her is sorta true. He sued the hospital and was awarded 1 million dollars 700k of which went to Terri the other 300k went to him. Also the settlement was 70% less than what it originally was because Terri was 70% responsibile for the condition as she had bulimia(sp?)
Now ask yourself this. If you were in her position would you honestly want to live? I don't know about you but I'd want to be dead so my family would remember me as a walking talking human being. Not a moaning drooling piece of cabbage.
CplDavisI hunt the arctic SnonosJoin Date: 2003-01-09Member: 12097Members
My humble input.
Im not going to say either way about this case but I would like to mention the fact that I find it strange that the court system wont let someone choose to euthanise themselves quickly and painlessly with an injection (Dr. Kavorkian style) but they are allowing this person to die by basically slowly starving her to death by removing her feeding tube.
<!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Mar 24 2005, 03:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Mar 24 2005, 03:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If it's NOT, then post what you have found.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> What is this, a celebration of ignorance? Read the affidavits yourself and see for yourself if what I'm saying about them is true. If you want to argue that I've misread them, at least read them yourself first!
Im not going to say either way about this case but I would like to mention the fact that I find it strange that the court system wont let someone choose to euthanise themselves quickly and painlessly with an injection (Dr. Kavorkian style) but they are allowing this person to die by basically slowly starving her to death by removing her feeding tube.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Can she still feel pain? (Yes, I know most of her brain is gone.) It would be cheaper to just not feed her, I guess.
<!--QuoteBegin-Apos+Mar 24 2005, 05:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Apos @ Mar 24 2005, 05:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Mar 24 2005, 03:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Mar 24 2005, 03:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If it's NOT, then post what you have found.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> What is this, a celebration of ignorance? Read the affidavits yourself and see for yourself if what I'm saying about them is true. If you want to argue that I've misread them, at least read them yourself first! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If you want to disprove their credibility prove it - that's all I ask.
GrendelAll that is fear...Join Date: 2002-07-19Member: 970Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, NS2 Playtester
<!--QuoteBegin-lolfighter+Mar 24 2005, 10:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (lolfighter @ Mar 24 2005, 10:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Grendel+Mar 24 2005, 05:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Grendel @ Mar 24 2005, 05:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-lolfighter+Mar 24 2005, 05:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (lolfighter @ Mar 24 2005, 05:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Disconnect the life support. If God wills that she shall live, she <i>will</i> live. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The logic is unassailable.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, it's not. I could shoot you in the head and claim that your death was the will of God. After all, if he hadn't wanted you to die, he would've saved you, right? I guess I was just trolling. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If god exists and is both omnipotent and omnipresent, then by definition it would be the will of god. Your "will" is irrelevant in such a context, since it always remains within the control of such a god.
To suggest otherwise means that god is not omnipotent. If I die under those circumstances, then it is because god wills it.
<!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Mar 24 2005, 05:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Mar 24 2005, 05:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Apos+Mar 24 2005, 05:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Apos @ Mar 24 2005, 05:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Mar 24 2005, 03:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Mar 24 2005, 03:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If it's NOT, then post what you have found.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> What is this, a celebration of ignorance? Read the affidavits yourself and see for yourself if what I'm saying about them is true. If you want to argue that I've misread them, at least read them yourself first! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If you want to disprove their credibility prove it - that's all I ask. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Nice dodge. But you're the one who claim that there are credible experts that support the idea that there is legitimate medical uncertainty here. After reading their affidavits, I've concluded that there is not. And courts of law, as well as most of the medical community, agree with me.
I'd say that I presented some pretty good prima facie arguments as to why they are not credible. If you'd like to rebutt my claims, you are welcome to do so. But then, that might, like, require you to actually go and read the things you claim are important so that you can know what the heck you are talking about first. As I've counseled you already: I think that's generally a good course of action.
You can find them here: on the right side collumn: <a href='http://www.terrisfight.net/documents.html' target='_blank'>http://www.terrisfight.net/documents.html</a>
isn't that the same argument they used to burn witches and heathens? if the torture and execution kills you it's because you're a witch and god wanted you dead?
now the christian crusaders can get a taste of their own medicine. disconnect the life support. if terri isn't brain dead "god" will save her!
<!--QuoteBegin-Apos+Mar 24 2005, 06:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Apos @ Mar 24 2005, 06:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Mar 24 2005, 05:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Mar 24 2005, 05:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Apos+Mar 24 2005, 05:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Apos @ Mar 24 2005, 05:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Mar 24 2005, 03:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Mar 24 2005, 03:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If it's NOT, then post what you have found.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> What is this, a celebration of ignorance? Read the affidavits yourself and see for yourself if what I'm saying about them is true. If you want to argue that I've misread them, at least read them yourself first! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If you want to disprove their credibility prove it - that's all I ask. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Nice dodge. But you're the one who claim that there are credible experts that support the idea that there is legitimate medical uncertainty here. After reading their affidavits, I've concluded that there is not. And courts of law, as well as most of the medical community, agree with me.
I'd say that I presented some pretty good prima facie arguments as to why they are not credible. If you'd like to rebutt my claims, you are welcome to do so. But then, that might, like, require you to actually go and read the things you claim are important so that you can know what the heck you are talking about first. As I've counseled you already: I think that's generally a good course of action.
You can find them here: on the right side collumn: <a href='http://www.terrisfight.net/documents.html' target='_blank'>http://www.terrisfight.net/documents.html</a> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Thank you. That wasn't very hard, was it? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Was it hard for you to find them yourself given that YOU were the one who claimed they were significant? Do you often make claims based on things you haven't read? I suppose now, after reading them, I'm going to have to point you at the court rulings on various claims made. This has been posted many many times, it has the relevant court findings: <a href='http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html' target='_blank'>http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html</a>
<!--QuoteBegin-Apos+Mar 24 2005, 07:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Apos @ Mar 24 2005, 07:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Was it hard for you to find them yourself given that YOU were the one who claimed they were significant? Do you often make claims based on things you haven't read? I suppose now, after reading them, I'm going to have to point you at the court rulings on various claims made. This has been posted many many times, it has the relevant court findings: <a href='http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html' target='_blank'>http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html</a> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes.
Yes, there are other sources than reading.
Thanks for another fine reference. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
This man is unsuitable to be the guardian of his disabled wife, especially when he committed adultery and had children with another woman. Hell, I wouldn't want to be married to scum like that. Would you?
This "he said, she said" case is just stupid, but it brings up good issues about how important a living will is.
But anyway, I feel like he's trying to cover up something horrid. He's going through all this trouble, shame, heck he's not even going to be able to walk the streets for a year, and for what? To go against his wife's religion and what it goes about? I don't care who is what religion, but you should always have respect for any religion. If I understand, she's Christian. Christians do NOT deny food and water, especially in these circumstances. Heck, he's even cremating her IMMEDIATELY after she dies, whereas viable Christians are highly against cremation. Immediate cremation is basically destroying the evidence.
IMO she is either dead already, or in some state of mental hell at the least - can you imagine being in her position? Stuck in a hospital bed and also being aware of everything around yourself (on the slim chance that she can actually percieve these things, as Mr.Edwards so proclaims), completely helpless? For 15 years.
Not to sound like a heartless b***ard, but just pull the damn plug already and be done with it. Who here would want to be in a vegetive state for so long, brain functions or <i>not</i>? Besides which as a Christian her purpose on this planet is pretty much defunct except perhaps to prove in this day and age that people can argue heatedly over the most, lets face it, pointless things.
But that's just my suggestion. Now to sound even more heartless - who really cares? I mean, really. This whole debate seems to me like an excuse for people to argue their own beliefs and stance in the world rather than out of any kind of compassion for Terri. To me she's a vegetable in bed in the US over whom everyone *seems* to be getting sadly worked up over. This is the reason more than anything for my opinion that she should get unplugged from this reality, unplugged from the debates and unplugged from the publics eye. Only the people who actually care for her (and not for the symbolism surrounding her) should have to argue this. Everyone else should find something more productive to do with their time.
PS John Edwards <i>is</i> a ******. (Aw, how can that be a swear word...FTW check out Southpark's episode 617 'Biggest ****** in the Universe')
<!--QuoteBegin-Blue Mary+Mar 27 2005, 10:55 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Blue Mary @ Mar 27 2005, 10:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This man is unsuitable to be the guardian of his disabled wife, especially when he committed adultery and had children with another woman. Hell, I wouldn't want to be married to scum like that. Would you?
This "he said, she said" case is just stupid, but it brings up good issues about how important a living will is.
But anyway, I feel like he's trying to cover up something horrid. He's going through all this trouble, shame, heck he's not even going to be able to walk the streets for a year, and for what? To go against his wife's religion and what it goes about? I don't care who is what religion, but you should always have respect for any religion. If I understand, she's Christian. Christians do NOT deny food and water, especially in these circumstances. Heck, he's even cremating her IMMEDIATELY after she dies, whereas viable Christians are highly against cremation. Immediate cremation is basically destroying the evidence.
I smell something fishy. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think you are jumping to conclusions based on a handful of facts.
It is not clear what the Husband's motivations are in this case and frankly until you've "walked in his shoes" I would not throw around any comments about how badly you think he's dealt with this situation.
If you could give Terri her fully restored brain back for a day, and basically asked her whether she would prefer to spend tomorrow and the rest of her life in her former state or die, what do you think she would say?
I think there's a really good chance she would prefer to die. Assuming she recongnizes her parents (which seems unlikely) how must she feel knowing (which seems questionable) that she is the cause of so much grief and burden? Assuming she's somewhat self-aware, how do you think she feels about spending the rest of her life on a hosipital bed staring at four walls?
There are no easy answers here really, but I honestly think the compassionate approach here is to do the seemingly paradoxical thing of letter her pass on.
Why Chrisitans make so much fuss of this is puzzling; there's a heaven according to you guys no ?
Isn't flesh meant to be sin in Christian dogma? If so, then why do they always seem so determined to bring more flesh into the world and keeping useless flesh in this world? You would think it would be the other way around, and that they would be trying to achieve <i>quality over quantity</i> ^_^
Note: I don't have anything against Christians per se, so please treat this post with an air of light heartedness. And I know I'm making huge generalisations.
<edited in>
How can Terris husband be going through all this just to cover up something he might have done do her? What is she going to do, tell someone!?
<!--QuoteBegin-FilthyLarry+Mar 27 2005, 12:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (FilthyLarry @ Mar 27 2005, 12:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If you could give Terri her fully restored brain back for a day, and basically asked her whether she would prefer to spend tomorrow and the rest of her life in her former state or die, what do you think she would say?
I think there's a really good chance she would prefer to die. Assuming she recongnizes her parents (which seems unlikely) how must she feel knowing (which seems questionable) that she is the cause of so much grief and burden? Assuming she's somewhat self-aware, how do you think she feels about spending the rest of her life on a hosipital bed staring at four walls?
There are no easy answers here really, but I honestly think the compassionate approach here is to do the seemingly paradoxical thing of letter her pass on.
Why Chrisitans make so much fuss of this is puzzling; there's a heaven according to you guys no ? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't know. It doesn't sit quite right with me, and I'm not religious.
If the parents are willing to pay to keep her alive, shouldn't they be able to?
As a rather logical christian (ironic I know) I don't understand it either. Everyone I know and in my immediate family would not want to continue living like that even in a minimally concious state. But then again I'm an evil heartless individual because I think she should be put out of her misery and not forced to waste away,
Also explain to me how he is an unsuitable guardian. He spent 7 years after she went into this state trying everything under the sun to help her. And THEN and ONLY THEN did he attempt to have her feeding tube pulled. And Terri's family actually supported him moving on.
And in all honesty I believe her parents should burn in hell for what they're doing. They need to let go instead of watching her waste away like that. And there is ZERO, NADA, ZIP, ZILCH, NO, HOPE OF HER RECOVERING. HER ENTIRE CEREBRAL CORTEX IS LIQUID AS IN NOT THERE KAPUT, DEAD AN EX-CEREBRAL CORTEX.
I don't think that anyone is in the 'wrong' here - it's a fair assumption that both Terri's parents and her husband are arguing their sides based on emotion, and you can't call someone evil for their emotional response. If her parents believe there is hope for her then its understandable that they would fight for her life as their love for her would greatly outweigh anyone elses. This doesn't mean that their decision is a valid one, just that they can't be blamed for their opinion.
<!--QuoteBegin-Merkaba+Mar 27 2005, 06:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Merkaba @ Mar 27 2005, 06:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I don't think that anyone is in the 'wrong' here - it's a fair assumption that both Terri's parents and her husband are arguing their sides based on emotion, and you can't call someone evil for their emotional response. If her parents believe there is hope for her then its understandable that they would fight for her life as their love for her would greatly outweigh anyone elses. This doesn't mean that their decision is a valid one, just that they can't be blamed for their opinion. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> There's a difference between hope and being delusional. Her parents fall under delusional as does anyone who honestly thinks that a LIQUIFIED CEREBRAL CORTEX will magically become solid and functioning again.. The only thing that's left of her functioning "brain" is the brain stem. She is for all intents and purposes dead and has been for 15 damn years. Her parents need to accept the fact that she's dead instead of going absolutely batsh*t insane over a piece of cabbage. Which is essentially what she is now.
Now if one of you people who don't support the feeding tube being removed please explain to me how you believe a puddle of spinal fluid will magically grow synapses and she'll wake up and be happy and live happily ever after while skipping down the road with Jesus and her parents
I don't think that she's going to recover. She can't. I just feel that if the parents want to keep her around, it's up to them (as long as they pay for it).
<!--QuoteBegin-Blue Mary+Mar 27 2005, 10:55 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Blue Mary @ Mar 27 2005, 10:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This man is unsuitable to be the guardian of his disabled wife <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Did you bother to read the provided documents? Because if you did then you'd know that the first time her parents claimed he was unfit as her guardian the case was DISMISSED WITH PREJUDICE. Do you understand what that means? It basically means that the judge was shocked that anyone would bring such a bogus case into his court room. It means that her parent's claim that he wasn't looking out for her best interest was absolute ****. This was proven IN A COURT OF LAW.
Also, by reading the documents, you can plainly see whos interest her parents are looking out for.
<!--QuoteBegin-Chem+Mar 27 2005, 08:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Chem @ Mar 27 2005, 08:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There's a difference between hope and being delusional. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well that's true, there is a difference but that doesn't mean one cancels out the other. They hope for her health to be returned. Obviously they are deluded, but they can still hope. It just means that their hope is delusional.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This man is unsuitable to be the guardian of his disabled wife, especially when he committed adultery and had children with another woman. Hell, I wouldn't want to be married to scum like that. Would you?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Adultery? His wife is gone, effectively braindead. Terri's PARENTS encouraged him to start dating again, to move on with his life. Now they are trying to use his relationship with this woman against him, even though they were fine with it to begin with. Michael's wife visits Terri in the hospital more than her own brother did before this became a big media scandal.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But anyway, I feel like he's trying to cover up something horrid. He's going through all this trouble, shame, heck he's not even going to be able to walk the streets for a year, and for what? To go against his wife's religion and what it goes about? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not at all clear that removing life support is against her religion. In Catholicism, you are allowed to refuse medical treatment if there is no hope of recovery. The only real dispute here is over the facts of the case. But the "debate" is phony. The facts are clear.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If I understand, she's Christian. Christians do NOT deny food and water, especially in these circumstances.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nonsense. Apparently, some Christians will rewrite their beliefs depending on whatever right wing pundits tell them they should claim to believe this week. Christians stop giving food and water to people who are gone but whose bodies remain functional all over this country all the time.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Heck, he's even cremating her IMMEDIATELY after she dies, whereas viable Christians are highly against cremation. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, nonsense. Catholics prefer burial, but she is being laid to rest in the husband's family plot, not her parents.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Immediate cremation is basically destroying the evidence.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Snidely+Mar 27 2005, 12:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Snidely @ Mar 27 2005, 12:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-FilthyLarry+Mar 27 2005, 12:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (FilthyLarry @ Mar 27 2005, 12:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If you could give Terri her fully restored brain back for a day, and basically asked her whether she would prefer to spend tomorrow and the rest of her life in her former state or die, what do you think she would say?
I think there's a really good chance she would prefer to die. Assuming she recongnizes her parents (which seems unlikely) how must she feel knowing (which seems questionable) that she is the cause of so much grief and burden? Assuming she's somewhat self-aware, how do you think she feels about spending the rest of her life on a hosipital bed staring at four walls?
There are no easy answers here really, but I honestly think the compassionate approach here is to do the seemingly paradoxical thing of letter her pass on.
Why Chrisitans make so much fuss of this is puzzling; there's a heaven according to you guys no ? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't know. It doesn't sit quite right with me, and I'm not religious.
If the parents are willing to pay to keep her alive, shouldn't they be able to? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well,
That's a fair question. But then, should any human being be allowed to remain in such a state for the rest of their lives? It seems like a form of abuse to me.
I mean, the parents obviously don't want to "lose" their daughter but the fact is they lost her 15 years ago. They really need to move on; and Terri needs some peace don't you think ?
That's a fair question. But then, should any human being be allowed to remain in such a state for the rest of their lives? It seems like a form of abuse to me.
I mean, the parents obviously don't want to "lose" their daughter but the fact is they lost her 15 years ago. They really need to move on; and Terri needs some peace don't you think ? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I thought Terri wasn't even self-aware? She's pretty much a vegetable, as far as I know. If she is self-aware, surely she wouldn't be starved to death?
As for making the parents move on; isn't that their decision to make?
Comments
Well, in my opinion as someone that has read and understand the affidavits in question and has some expertise in these matters, yes.
But also in the opinion of the court system, which has pointed out the glaring flaws in the sorts of arguments made.
And frankly, I don't see how can avoid most of what I said with "that's your opinion." It's NOT just my opinion that most of the 30 haven't even seen her actual medical record, and are just going off clueless media video. Many of they even say that. It's NOT just my opinion that none of them confront the actual clinical findings that basically make most of what they say irrelevant and misinformed.
The logic is unassailable. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Except for the whole "Don't test God" thing. The Devil told Jesus to jump off a building, saying that God would save him, and Jesus quoted scripture saying that no one should ever test God to save him by purposefully putting himself in danger. I'm certain someone more familiar with the Bible could further elaborate this.
okay, I'm heated at some right winger I just saw on CNN
he kept upsing words like "judicial murder" and travisty, and was even questioned "if she dies, who is to blame" and he instantly replied "I blame the judge, and the husband who obviously wants to murder her"
It was totally ethos, and was the weakest argument for her I've heard, but they way he was speaking made me want to come here and rail on him in the thread.
This is literally a no brainer, well at least higher brainer...
Well, in my opinion as someone that has read and understand the affidavits in question and has some expertise in these matters, yes.
But also in the opinion of the court system, which has pointed out the glaring flaws in the sorts of arguments made.
And frankly, I don't see how can avoid most of what I said with "that's your opinion." It's NOT just my opinion that most of the 30 haven't even seen her actual medical record, and are just going off clueless media video. Many of they even say that. It's NOT just my opinion that none of them confront the actual clinical findings that basically make most of what they say irrelevant and misinformed. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If it's NOT, then post what you have found.
The logic is unassailable.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, it's not. I could shoot you in the head and claim that your death was the will of God. After all, if he hadn't wanted you to die, he would've saved you, right?
I guess I was just trolling.
<a href='http://img91.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img91&image=schiavoctscan6cj.jpg' target='_blank'>http://img91.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img91&image...voctscan6cj.jpg</a>
That's a side by side comparison of Terri's brain and a healthy human one. Not the dark blue/black. That's spinal fluid. Her entire Cerebral Cortex is spinal fluid. There is no recovery from that. She is 100% gone and has been for 15 goddamn years.
Also the people bringing it up how he made 300k off her is sorta true. He sued the hospital and was awarded 1 million dollars 700k of which went to Terri the other 300k went to him. Also the settlement was 70% less than what it originally was because Terri was 70% responsibile for the condition as she had bulimia(sp?)
Now ask yourself this. If you were in her position would you honestly want to live?
I don't know about you but I'd want to be dead so my family would remember me as a walking talking human being. Not a moaning drooling piece of cabbage.
Im not going to say either way about this case but I would like to mention the fact that I find it strange that the court system wont let someone choose to euthanise themselves quickly and painlessly with an injection (Dr. Kavorkian style) but they are allowing this person to die by basically slowly starving her to death by removing her feeding tube.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
What is this, a celebration of ignorance? Read the affidavits yourself and see for yourself if what I'm saying about them is true. If you want to argue that I've misread them, at least read them yourself first!
Im not going to say either way about this case but I would like to mention the fact that I find it strange that the court system wont let someone choose to euthanise themselves quickly and painlessly with an injection (Dr. Kavorkian style) but they are allowing this person to die by basically slowly starving her to death by removing her feeding tube.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Can she still feel pain? (Yes, I know most of her brain is gone.) It would be cheaper to just not feed her, I guess.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What is this, a celebration of ignorance? Read the affidavits yourself and see for yourself if what I'm saying about them is true. If you want to argue that I've misread them, at least read them yourself first! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you want to disprove their credibility prove it - that's all I ask.
The logic is unassailable.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, it's not. I could shoot you in the head and claim that your death was the will of God. After all, if he hadn't wanted you to die, he would've saved you, right?
I guess I was just trolling. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If god exists and is both omnipotent and omnipresent, then by definition it would be the will of god. Your "will" is irrelevant in such a context, since it always remains within the control of such a god.
To suggest otherwise means that god is not omnipotent. If I die under those circumstances, then it is because god wills it.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What is this, a celebration of ignorance? Read the affidavits yourself and see for yourself if what I'm saying about them is true. If you want to argue that I've misread them, at least read them yourself first! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you want to disprove their credibility prove it - that's all I ask. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nice dodge. But you're the one who claim that there are credible experts that support the idea that there is legitimate medical uncertainty here. After reading their affidavits, I've concluded that there is not. And courts of law, as well as most of the medical community, agree with me.
I'd say that I presented some pretty good prima facie arguments as to why they are not credible. If you'd like to rebutt my claims, you are welcome to do so. But then, that might, like, require you to actually go and read the things you claim are important so that you can know what the heck you are talking about first. As I've counseled you already: I think that's generally a good course of action.
You can find them here: on the right side collumn:
<a href='http://www.terrisfight.net/documents.html' target='_blank'>http://www.terrisfight.net/documents.html</a>
now the christian crusaders can get a taste of their own medicine. disconnect the life support. if terri isn't brain dead "god" will save her!
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What is this, a celebration of ignorance? Read the affidavits yourself and see for yourself if what I'm saying about them is true. If you want to argue that I've misread them, at least read them yourself first! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you want to disprove their credibility prove it - that's all I ask. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nice dodge. But you're the one who claim that there are credible experts that support the idea that there is legitimate medical uncertainty here. After reading their affidavits, I've concluded that there is not. And courts of law, as well as most of the medical community, agree with me.
I'd say that I presented some pretty good prima facie arguments as to why they are not credible. If you'd like to rebutt my claims, you are welcome to do so. But then, that might, like, require you to actually go and read the things you claim are important so that you can know what the heck you are talking about first. As I've counseled you already: I think that's generally a good course of action.
You can find them here: on the right side collumn:
<a href='http://www.terrisfight.net/documents.html' target='_blank'>http://www.terrisfight.net/documents.html</a> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thank you. That wasn't very hard, was it? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
This has been posted many many times, it has the relevant court findings:
<a href='http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html' target='_blank'>http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html</a>
This has been posted many many times, it has the relevant court findings:
<a href='http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html' target='_blank'>http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html</a> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes.
Yes, there are other sources than reading.
Thanks for another fine reference. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
This "he said, she said" case is just stupid, but it brings up good issues about how important a living will is.
But anyway, I feel like he's trying to cover up something horrid. He's going through all this trouble, shame, heck he's not even going to be able to walk the streets for a year, and for what? To go against his wife's religion and what it goes about? I don't care who is what religion, but you should always have respect for any religion. If I understand, she's Christian. Christians do NOT deny food and water, especially in these circumstances. Heck, he's even cremating her IMMEDIATELY after she dies, whereas viable Christians are highly against cremation. Immediate cremation is basically destroying the evidence.
I smell something fishy.
IMO she is either dead already, or in some state of mental hell at the least - can you imagine being in her position? Stuck in a hospital bed and also being aware of everything around yourself (on the slim chance that she can actually percieve these things, as Mr.Edwards so proclaims), completely helpless? For 15 years.
Not to sound like a heartless b***ard, but just pull the damn plug already and be done with it. Who here would want to be in a vegetive state for so long, brain functions or <i>not</i>? Besides which as a Christian her purpose on this planet is pretty much defunct except perhaps to prove in this day and age that people can argue heatedly over the most, lets face it, pointless things.
But that's just my suggestion. Now to sound even more heartless - who really cares? I mean, really. This whole debate seems to me like an excuse for people to argue their own beliefs and stance in the world rather than out of any kind of compassion for Terri. To me she's a vegetable in bed in the US over whom everyone *seems* to be getting sadly worked up over. This is the reason more than anything for my opinion that she should get unplugged from this reality, unplugged from the debates and unplugged from the publics eye. Only the people who actually care for her (and not for the symbolism surrounding her) should have to argue this. Everyone else should find something more productive to do with their time.
PS
John Edwards <i>is</i> a ******. (Aw, how can that be a swear word...FTW check out Southpark's episode 617 'Biggest ****** in the Universe')
This "he said, she said" case is just stupid, but it brings up good issues about how important a living will is.
But anyway, I feel like he's trying to cover up something horrid. He's going through all this trouble, shame, heck he's not even going to be able to walk the streets for a year, and for what? To go against his wife's religion and what it goes about? I don't care who is what religion, but you should always have respect for any religion. If I understand, she's Christian. Christians do NOT deny food and water, especially in these circumstances. Heck, he's even cremating her IMMEDIATELY after she dies, whereas viable Christians are highly against cremation. Immediate cremation is basically destroying the evidence.
I smell something fishy. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you are jumping to conclusions based on a handful of facts.
It is not clear what the Husband's motivations are in this case and frankly until you've "walked in his shoes" I would not throw around any comments about how badly you think he's dealt with this situation.
If you could give Terri her fully restored brain back for a day, and basically asked her whether she would prefer to spend tomorrow and the rest of her life in her former state or die, what do you think she would say?
I think there's a really good chance she would prefer to die. Assuming she recongnizes her parents (which seems unlikely) how must she feel knowing (which seems questionable) that she is the cause of so much grief and burden? Assuming she's somewhat self-aware, how do you think she feels about spending the rest of her life on a hosipital bed staring at four walls?
There are no easy answers here really, but I honestly think the compassionate approach here is to do the seemingly paradoxical thing of letter her pass on.
Why Chrisitans make so much fuss of this is puzzling; there's a heaven according to you guys no ?
Note: I don't have anything against Christians per se, so please treat this post with an air of light heartedness. And I know I'm making huge generalisations.
<edited in>
How can Terris husband be going through all this just to cover up something he might have done do her? What is she going to do, tell someone!?
I think there's a really good chance she would prefer to die. Assuming she recongnizes her parents (which seems unlikely) how must she feel knowing (which seems questionable) that she is the cause of so much grief and burden? Assuming she's somewhat self-aware, how do you think she feels about spending the rest of her life on a hosipital bed staring at four walls?
There are no easy answers here really, but I honestly think the compassionate approach here is to do the seemingly paradoxical thing of letter her pass on.
Why Chrisitans make so much fuss of this is puzzling; there's a heaven according to you guys no ? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know. It doesn't sit quite right with me, and I'm not religious.
If the parents are willing to pay to keep her alive, shouldn't they be able to?
Also explain to me how he is an unsuitable guardian. He spent 7 years after she went into this state trying everything under the sun to help her. And THEN and ONLY THEN did he attempt to have her feeding tube pulled. And Terri's family actually supported him moving on.
And in all honesty I believe her parents should burn in hell for what they're doing. They need to let go instead of watching her waste away like that. And there is ZERO, NADA, ZIP, ZILCH, NO, HOPE OF HER RECOVERING. HER ENTIRE CEREBRAL CORTEX IS LIQUID AS IN NOT THERE KAPUT, DEAD AN EX-CEREBRAL CORTEX.
There's a difference between hope and being delusional. Her parents fall under delusional as does anyone who honestly thinks that a LIQUIFIED CEREBRAL CORTEX will magically become solid and functioning again.. The only thing that's left of her functioning "brain" is the brain stem. She is for all intents and purposes dead and has been for 15 damn years. Her parents need to accept the fact that she's dead instead of going absolutely batsh*t insane over a piece of cabbage. Which is essentially what she is now.
Now if one of you people who don't support the feeding tube being removed please explain to me how you believe a puddle of spinal fluid will magically grow synapses and she'll wake up and be happy and live happily ever after while skipping down the road with Jesus and her parents
Did you bother to read the provided documents? Because if you did then you'd know that the first time her parents claimed he was unfit as her guardian the case was DISMISSED WITH PREJUDICE. Do you understand what that means? It basically means that the judge was shocked that anyone would bring such a bogus case into his court room. It means that her parent's claim that he wasn't looking out for her best interest was absolute ****. This was proven IN A COURT OF LAW.
Also, by reading the documents, you can plainly see whos interest her parents are looking out for.
Well that's true, there is a difference but that doesn't mean one cancels out the other. They hope for her health to be returned. Obviously they are deluded, but they can still hope. It just means that their hope is delusional.
Adultery? His wife is gone, effectively braindead. Terri's PARENTS encouraged him to start dating again, to move on with his life. Now they are trying to use his relationship with this woman against him, even though they were fine with it to begin with. Michael's wife visits Terri in the hospital more than her own brother did before this became a big media scandal.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But anyway, I feel like he's trying to cover up something horrid. He's going through all this trouble, shame, heck he's not even going to be able to walk the streets for a year, and for what? To go against his wife's religion and what it goes about? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not at all clear that removing life support is against her religion. In Catholicism, you are allowed to refuse medical treatment if there is no hope of recovery. The only real dispute here is over the facts of the case. But the "debate" is phony. The facts are clear.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If I understand, she's Christian. Christians do NOT deny food and water, especially in these circumstances.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nonsense. Apparently, some Christians will rewrite their beliefs depending on whatever right wing pundits tell them they should claim to believe this week. Christians stop giving food and water to people who are gone but whose bodies remain functional all over this country all the time.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Heck, he's even cremating her IMMEDIATELY after she dies, whereas viable Christians are highly against cremation. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, nonsense. Catholics prefer burial, but she is being laid to rest in the husband's family plot, not her parents.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Immediate cremation is basically destroying the evidence.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What evidence? Of what?!
I think there's a really good chance she would prefer to die. Assuming she recongnizes her parents (which seems unlikely) how must she feel knowing (which seems questionable) that she is the cause of so much grief and burden? Assuming she's somewhat self-aware, how do you think she feels about spending the rest of her life on a hosipital bed staring at four walls?
There are no easy answers here really, but I honestly think the compassionate approach here is to do the seemingly paradoxical thing of letter her pass on.
Why Chrisitans make so much fuss of this is puzzling; there's a heaven according to you guys no ? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know. It doesn't sit quite right with me, and I'm not religious.
If the parents are willing to pay to keep her alive, shouldn't they be able to? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well,
That's a fair question. But then, should any human being be allowed to remain in such a state for the rest of their lives? It seems like a form of abuse to me.
I mean, the parents obviously don't want to "lose" their daughter but the fact is they lost her 15 years ago. They really need to move on; and Terri needs some peace don't you think ?
That's a fair question. But then, should any human being be allowed to remain in such a state for the rest of their lives? It seems like a form of abuse to me.
I mean, the parents obviously don't want to "lose" their daughter but the fact is they lost her 15 years ago. They really need to move on; and Terri needs some peace don't you think ? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I thought Terri wasn't even self-aware? She's pretty much a vegetable, as far as I know. If she is self-aware, surely she wouldn't be starved to death?
As for making the parents move on; isn't that their decision to make?