ok for all those guys that want vehicles? what do you think they might be useful for? (with respect to balance issues)
i think ns got a lot of ideas from alien 2 ... well and in that movie they are using their tank to get in/out of the infested station -> spend your development resources somewhere else please! cars/tanks might be good for fun maps but not for serious ns_ maps
what we definitely need is an official training level. i think the reason why this point did not get an overwhelming amount of voices is that the average forum user is already some kind of veteran who does not really care about learning the game because he already know every single aspect. if we want to have some new players ... please add an atmospheric training map to teach new players the basics. maybe there could be a story in this map with some (~3) different endings depending (or just randomly chosen) on the players actions ...
<!--QuoteBegin-TheGivingTree+May 8 2005, 04:02 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TheGivingTree @ May 8 2005, 04:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Also the only reason I would like to see a tweak is because NS was more fun for me when skulks didn't just bum rush you they would wait and lerk around the corners or ambush you <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If you're unable to kill a skulk hopping down a whole corridor, you either need better aim or need to stop being alone. Going down a hallway towards enemies has never been a good idea, bunnyhopping or not. Leap, on the other hand, might get you a suicidary kill.
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The LMG has a scope,<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wasn't it supposed to be replaced at a point by some sort of onboard computer/targeter/other fancy equipment? (esthetic only, of course)
i'd vote for all of them to be implemented EXCEPT the automatic ranking. With this you'd have too many people trying to get their rank "in the server from 3 to 1 hnehnehneh" and as a result, more rambo's and less teamwork.
<!--QuoteBegin-Buggy+May 8 2005, 01:01 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Buggy @ May 8 2005, 01:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> My faith in this community is rapidly dropping after seeing the number of votes for vehicles and outdoor maps. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> This is one of those rare occasions where I'm really glad the Ns dev team rarely listen to ideas suggested by the community. (I really dont blame them)
Vehicles and Outdoor maps for NS2, maybe. But It would require far too much work fixing the aliens so they dont get totally and utterly raped. Also taking into account the fact that getting vehicles to work in Source is insanely hard.
NS is about fighting in claustrophobic, atmospheric corridors.
TheAdjHe demanded a cool forum title of some type.Join Date: 2004-05-03Member: 28436Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
edited May 2005
I also know that dropships were originally used to bring in the marines initially. I'd love to see the marine beginning change from starting with all that stuff to marines being dropped off with a big crate containing the CC and having to set it up, with subsequent marine reinforcements having to come in via dropships. Actually being able to attack dropships as a lerk would be lol amazing.
Edit: Secondary fire would also be a way of increasing the number of weapons available for both classes, or at least increase the number of ways to use a given weapon. For example spores could fling spores that stick to the area, causing damage over time to anything that runs over them, or in the current form. This would also fix some problems we have now, such as hand grenades. It also increases the upgradability of weapons, allowing for more fire modes to be researched by the commander. It would allow the devteam to code more counters, for example the fade could be highly resistant to LMG bullets until the commander researches AP ammo, which gives marines 2 LMG magazines worth of AP ammo on spawn. This is merely an example (and a bad one, no I'm not recommending it at all) of what could be done with alternate fire methods.
I really hope you dont listen to these people...... Most of your ideas are potentially harmful to the **delicate** balance of ns. Although I dont really see why outdoor maps are even in there. I've played outdoor maps before, and they really weren't that bad. Not quite balanced enough for competitive play but a good pub time. Even if you were to take the only possible suggestions like and extra tech (chamber/alien/rine tech) what kind of tech could you put in??
I can't think of anything significantly different to the already encompassing alien lineup. I believe that I heard that you had to make up extra upgrade abilities with real expectations for usefullness for the chambers we had (i.e. pheremones)(although i think that they are all quiet viable now gj on tweaking them!) How could you possibly hope to have 3 MORE viable abilities? I couldnt' even think of 1... And when talking about an extra alien what kind of abilities could this alien have? We already have a small sneaky wallwalker which is fast, we have a flying birdlike alien(with ranged attack), we have a fast powerful quick cavalry type alien(fade) and we have a tank type alien. (and dont forget the builder alien with ranged attack) I can't think of a alien build that could possibly be balanced and still significantly different to the current alien types...
As for marine tech the issue is a little less clear, if possible you might consider adding more pub friendly options that wouldn't be used (at all) in competitive play (i.e. grenades) (I love hearing my team whine when we are just about to slaughter the last of the aliens and I jokingly research grenades, they just can't handle anything else in their welder slot)
Of course you sir are the creative genius and I am simply the devoted follower, so I will put the weight of these descisions back on your strong shoulders. GL HF
What i <b>really</b> want to see, however, is a massive outdoor map (think El Alamein), with tunnels, wrecked troop carriers littering the battlefield. Then we could have massive mechs, and massive flyring pterodactyl-esque aliens. And a massive <b>uber</b> alien. And scorpions that hov... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If you want to have massive battles against giant robots, NS probably isn't for you. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Though, I admit that having a massive robot would be pretty awesome, especially if the Skulks and stuff had to break in through a weak point, and resist the nanites inside long enough to weaken/disable it...
aeroripperJoin Date: 2005-02-25Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-raz0r+May 8 2005, 11:27 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (raz0r @ May 8 2005, 11:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I voted for vehicles and outdoor maps.
What i <b>really</b> want to see, however, is a massive outdoor map (think El Alamein), with tunnels, wrecked troop carriers littering the battlefield. Then we could have massive mechs, and massive flyring pterodactyl-esque aliens. And a massive <b>uber</b> alien. And scorpions that hov... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> This is completely different from what NS is... why does everybody want to make their own little game?
Not to be a hypocrite, but i would love to see a dropship flying across the landscape and coming up on the base (very drab looking, blue lights for atmoshere, very dark and alienish) There is probably a LOT of detail that could be added to those initial outdoor enviroments. Really give the incoming marines a feeling of dread as they enter the base...
ex) On ns_hera, it could be reworked so a ship lands on the landing pad and the marines move into an airlock and the light shuts off inside for a few seconds then flickers back on again as the door slowly creaks open into marine start. One thing i would love to see on source is mega atmosphere put back into the game and make it kind of a nervous setting instead of just "okay another base". Make each level themed differently would be a big plus.
Don't forget landscaping could be used for looking out the windows on the martian landscape on some maps, maybe add a small distant outpost in the hills with a nighttime lamp flickering in the distance to give the effect their outpost is under attack by the kharra too.
Wang TangJoin Date: 2004-08-18Member: 30699Members
The things I think would be cool to implement is just to make NS more complex - new technology upgrades and buildings for marines, new chambers and alien forms for the kharaa. then, a training course would be needed too, of course (even more than now). my wish is to make the ns-games longer (for short games, we still have co <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
sorry to see vehicles and outdoor maps is winning.
I really wish NS wouldn't be turned into large-scale combat. Though I suppose certain vehicles used in moderation (lumbering personnell carriers?) could be cool, I'd hate to see NS turned into a frenzied Battlefield game and lose all of its creepy feel.
Vehicles could be one to two person hover-trams, or a bigger HA. It doesn't mean gigantic tanks and walker mechs. Outdoor maps aren't just prairies, either. It could be a canyon filled with wreckage. It's all in how they're implemented, you're being far too close-minded.
Then perhaps we should take a consensus as to what people would mean if they had voted "vehicles and/or outdoor maps"; it seems a little more than coincidence that a number of people who consider either/both choices near immediately think of such examples as Halo and Unreal Tournament 2K4. I wouldn't mind map-specific transports such as trolley systems, personell carriers, or even dropships, but the idea could easily drift away from what the feel of NS has been developed to be.
Myself, though I originally voted for integrated clan support, I'm feeling that I should have made my vote one for a training level.
I'd go for for the outside terrain environments... though i'm still not entirely sure about vehicles. However, just having outside environments isn't going to fly... the 'openness' usually means easy 'snipe' kills on the marine side. However, if you combine this with a new tech... say... oxygen masks, and then limit marine exposure to the elements only under the circumstances that they have an oxygen mask, AND that the oxygen reserves haven't been depleted (refilled at some station perhaps).
The whole concept may need to be restricted to 'surface level' access where the majority of the map is under ground however, but these short, but dangerous, excursions to the 'outside' could provide a fast access means of getting to some key objective for marines.
The only other thing I could think of that isn't on the list is reasonable recoil (especially on the visual end). It really unnerves me to think that i'm firing a high powered projectile and not having to "pull down" or otherwise correct my aim. The simple 'random' shot patterns exhibited by the machine guns simply don't cut it in my opinion. If this means that you have to nerf a bunch of the alien stuff to compensate, so be it, just make it feel like i'm actually firing a gun rather than holding down my mouse button.
why does everyone assume that the aliens would be the same outdoors as they would be indoors <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->, I mean they evolve to their environment to be able to fight outside forces as best as possible, so they might evolve into a worm like creature that would be able to tunnel underground and attack them from beneath.
Note: I know it takes time to make quality models but as flayra himself said in one of the many NS:S related threads (or interviews) that it wouldn't just be some simple port it would be a pedal to the metal remake.
Outdoor maps and vehicles. New weapons. Training level. (A MUST or some sort of offline mode so people can get better at Commanding without a whole group of marines screaming at them.) New marine tech and/or building. New alien. New alien chamber.
The rest is just bleh, and isn't required as much as the other options you listed, or liked I should say.
But I know you guys cannot do all of those so I voted for Outdoor maps.
I personally don't think that vehicles would fit within Natural Selection.
schkorpioI can mspaintJoin Date: 2003-05-23Member: 16635Members
i would say "all of the above" chambers would be the best - i dont think there is room for another alien tbh. however a new set of chambers with 3 new skills to choose from would change how aliens act and feel, inturn making a new alien not necessary - however i do not know what other abilities there could be or what type of chamber it would be?
Comments
i think ns got a lot of ideas from alien 2 ... well and in that movie they are using their tank to get in/out of the infested station
-> spend your development resources somewhere else please! cars/tanks might be good for fun maps but not for serious ns_ maps
what we definitely need is an official training level. i think the reason why this point did not get an overwhelming amount of voices is that the average forum user is already some kind of veteran who does not really care about learning the game because he already know every single aspect.
if we want to have some new players ... please add an atmospheric training map to teach new players the basics. maybe there could be a story in this map with some (~3) different endings depending (or just randomly chosen) on the players actions ...
If you're unable to kill a skulk hopping down a whole corridor, you either need better aim or need to stop being alone. Going down a hallway towards enemies has never been a good idea, bunnyhopping or not. Leap, on the other hand, might get you a suicidary kill.
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The LMG has a scope,<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wasn't it supposed to be replaced at a point by some sort of onboard computer/targeter/other fancy equipment? (esthetic only, of course)
This is one of those rare occasions where I'm really glad the Ns dev team rarely listen to ideas suggested by the community. (I really dont blame them)
Vehicles and Outdoor maps for NS2, maybe. But It would require far too much work fixing the aliens so they dont get totally and utterly raped. Also taking into account the fact that getting vehicles to work in Source is insanely hard.
NS is about fighting in claustrophobic, atmospheric corridors.
I'm telling you, these "bugs" are what makes me play NS. I wouldnt play it if they were removed.
Edit: Secondary fire would also be a way of increasing the number of weapons available for both classes, or at least increase the number of ways to use a given weapon. For example spores could fling spores that stick to the area, causing damage over time to anything that runs over them, or in the current form. This would also fix some problems we have now, such as hand grenades. It also increases the upgradability of weapons, allowing for more fire modes to be researched by the commander. It would allow the devteam to code more counters, for example the fade could be highly resistant to LMG bullets until the commander researches AP ammo, which gives marines 2 LMG magazines worth of AP ammo on spawn. This is merely an example (and a bad one, no I'm not recommending it at all) of what could be done with alternate fire methods.
Roger that. Dont change too much stuff.
New Chambers/Tech Tree would be cool yes
but dont change too much :)=
@ flamethrower/outdoor maps and vehicles
just as said b4: keep on working on it for ns2 ( singleplayer )
Most of your ideas are potentially harmful to the **delicate** balance of ns. Although I dont really see why outdoor maps are even in there. I've played outdoor maps before, and they really weren't that bad. Not quite balanced enough for competitive play but a good pub time. Even if you were to take the only possible suggestions like and extra tech (chamber/alien/rine tech) what kind of tech could you put in??
I can't think of anything significantly different to the already encompassing alien lineup. I believe that I heard that you had to make up extra upgrade abilities with real expectations for usefullness for the chambers we had (i.e. pheremones)(although i think that they are all quiet viable now gj on tweaking them!) How could you possibly hope to have 3 MORE viable abilities? I couldnt' even think of 1... And when talking about an extra alien what kind of abilities could this alien have? We already have a small sneaky wallwalker which is fast, we have a flying birdlike alien(with ranged attack), we have a fast powerful quick cavalry type alien(fade) and we have a tank type alien. (and dont forget the builder alien with ranged attack) I can't think of a alien build that could possibly be balanced and still significantly different to the current alien types...
As for marine tech the issue is a little less clear, if possible you might consider adding more pub friendly options that wouldn't be used (at all) in competitive play (i.e. grenades) (I love hearing my team whine when we are just about to slaughter the last of the aliens and I jokingly research grenades, they just can't handle anything else in their welder slot)
Of course you sir are the creative genius and I am simply the devoted follower, so I will put the weight of these descisions back on your strong shoulders. GL HF
Lerk, from 1.04
Gorge, from 1.04
That's all we need
What i <b>really</b> want to see, however, is a massive outdoor map (think El Alamein), with tunnels, wrecked troop carriers littering the battlefield.
Then we could have massive mechs, and massive flyring pterodactyl-esque aliens.
And a massive <b>uber</b> alien.
And scorpions that hov... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Though, I admit that having a massive robot would be pretty awesome, especially if the Skulks and stuff had to break in through a weak point, and resist the nanites inside long enough to weaken/disable it...
What i <b>really</b> want to see, however, is a massive outdoor map (think El Alamein), with tunnels, wrecked troop carriers littering the battlefield.
Then we could have massive mechs, and massive flyring pterodactyl-esque aliens.
And a massive <b>uber</b> alien.
And scorpions that hov... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is completely different from what NS is... why does everybody want to make their own little game?
Not to be a hypocrite, but i would love to see a dropship flying across the landscape and coming up on the base (very drab looking, blue lights for atmoshere, very dark and alienish) There is probably a LOT of detail that could be added to those initial outdoor enviroments. Really give the incoming marines a feeling of dread as they enter the base...
ex) On ns_hera, it could be reworked so a ship lands on the landing pad and the marines move into an airlock and the light shuts off inside for a few seconds then flickers back on again as the door slowly creaks open into marine start. One thing i would love to see on source is mega atmosphere put back into the game and make it kind of a nervous setting instead of just "okay another base". Make each level themed differently would be a big plus.
Don't forget landscaping could be used for looking out the windows on the martian landscape on some maps, maybe add a small distant outpost in the hills with a nighttime lamp flickering in the distance to give the effect their outpost is under attack by the kharra too.
No vehicles, bad idea... this isn't ut2004
then, a training course would be needed too, of course (even more than now).
my wish is to make the ns-games longer (for short games, we still have co <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
I really wish NS wouldn't be turned into large-scale combat. Though I suppose certain vehicles used in moderation (lumbering personnell carriers?) could be cool, I'd hate to see NS turned into a frenzied Battlefield game and lose all of its creepy feel.
Vehicles could be one to two person hover-trams, or a bigger HA. It doesn't mean gigantic tanks and walker mechs. Outdoor maps aren't just prairies, either. It could be a canyon filled with wreckage. It's all in how they're implemented, you're being far too close-minded.
Myself, though I originally voted for integrated clan support, I'm feeling that I should have made my vote one for a training level.
vehicles = bad game
No vehicles. They wouldn't work at all. How would any of the aliens fight vehicles?
I'd like new marine tech, new alien chambers, or a new lifeform. They'd add more variety to the game, which is always nice.
marine : flamethrower
alien : new/add chambers
all i can think of right now.
The whole concept may need to be restricted to 'surface level' access where the majority of the map is under ground however, but these short, but dangerous, excursions to the 'outside' could provide a fast access means of getting to some key objective for marines.
The only other thing I could think of that isn't on the list is reasonable recoil (especially on the visual end). It really unnerves me to think that i'm firing a high powered projectile and not having to "pull down" or otherwise correct my aim. The simple 'random' shot patterns exhibited by the machine guns simply don't cut it in my opinion. If this means that you have to nerf a bunch of the alien stuff to compensate, so be it, just make it feel like i'm actually firing a gun rather than holding down my mouse button.
Note: I know it takes time to make quality models but as flayra himself said in one of the many NS:S related threads (or interviews) that it wouldn't just be some simple port it would be a pedal to the metal remake.
Outdoor maps and vehicles.
New weapons.
Training level. (A MUST or some sort of offline mode so people can get better at Commanding without a whole group of marines screaming at them.)
New marine tech and/or building.
New alien.
New alien chamber.
The rest is just bleh, and isn't required as much as the other options you listed, or liked I should say.
But I know you guys cannot do all of those so I voted for Outdoor maps.
I personally don't think that vehicles would fit within Natural Selection.
chambers would be the best - i dont think there is room for another alien tbh. however a new set of chambers with 3 new skills to choose from would change how aliens act and feel, inturn making a new alien not necessary - however i do not know what other abilities there could be or what type of chamber it would be?
i dont like the clan support idea or the xp idea.
This could include more aliens, more chambers to choose from, more marine upgrades, weapons.......
Making the game totally unpredictable would be awesome, rather than cookie cutter strategies every time