ByekaName changed from Freak83TorontoJoin Date: 2003-03-13Member: 14484Members, Constellation
I voted new alien. I'd love to see a water unit <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Marik Steele+May 9 2005, 07:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Marik Steele @ May 9 2005, 07:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I voted marine tech. Simply because of the nature of the Kharaa tech tree I consider them the much easier side to make new tech options for. Add an alien, swap around the weapons for one or more aliens, make the offense chamber give upgrades again as it did before the 1st public release, chain/unchain the chambers...everyone's got their own ideas. But being creative enough to come up with good new marine tech seems rather difficult, making it the sort of thing I'd be most impressed by. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> maye kinda remaking the marine upgrades would make sense here. the alien upgrades seem kinda finished to me, maybe a new lifeform. would be nice to see some kind of super defensive alien that uses the webs from the gorge and the umbra of the lerk to secure the hive areas more effectively.
<!--QuoteBegin-Kwil+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kwil)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I certainly don't want vehicles other than as map-specific devices -- the drop ship, the rail car, etc. Though as such they probably wouldn't be bad.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
regarding moving dropships in maps: we could already have them in maps. however, the dev team removed the necessary entities to create dynamic model movement from the ns.fgd. thats what mappers are still little bit angry about because it takes away the option to create some additional atmospheric elements. shure, you wont be able to use it but just imagine how cool this would be...
Outdoor maps, Moving thing <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->? I remember playing an custom outdoor map(Canyon-Like) with 2 constant moving entity(on the last server, I played it, there was Lerklift enabled). One moving thing on a Round-Rail was to be jumped on(miss it, no problem; getting in it's way -> dead), and a Hovering Platform. This Level has some speed tubes on the sides,going from the Rine-Side of the Map to the Alien-Side and back, and a thin Castle-Look-A-Like Marine-Start(looks nice but didn't help that much).
Rines are good at mining the CC there, while Lerks ruled the air with the poison-spores
Alltogether, this map was pretty nice balanced (on the alien-Side, i was able to become onos and destroyed the CC / on the Rine-Side, I've gone Jetpacker to take the Hive out)
So, in fact, it is the Level-Designer, who can make the game balanced, for Example: Think of an military base with sewers and tunnels under it, the rines cannot take a Vehicle inside the Sewers and tunnels(except, if there is a Transport-Tunnel). and if a skulk can make it, to hop on a Vehicle, it might bite the driver directly, if he doesn't get out quickly enough
------ PS: why is Poison spores destroying my armor, when I'm not HA??? ------
Yep yep, if the outdoor maps are nicely done, im sure it'll fit on ns..
but what we all need is BABBLERS ! <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo-->
the reason i didnt vote vehicles, tho i would liek the outdoors, that would be kindof weird.... im used to ns being gloomy and dark, its what makes the game... out door there would be no ceiling for the aliens to attack from... it would be a lot of work making out door maps, new textures... well it wouldnt be to hard but you would need to block off everything, i just dont see this happining
plus vehicles only for marines, maybe a fade... but a skulk driving, lol that would be something, it would have to be just rines and maybe fade able to drive... but it would be fun to play around with for a bit...
now if your talking about the vehicles on a track so marines can get around better, wouldnt be as much fun but it would be nice, but it would have to be indoors on a long angled hallway or something... would be pretty tight... but i just dont see this happining in the next update... if this is in the new update i will be severly shocked
why do all of u want vehicules.. i find it really stupid.. i mean think about it : a pick-up truck (=) ) with 6 Ha`s do a hive lock down.. Now that would be like erm stupid..
How 'bout a rainforest, with alot bushes and stuff like that, caves...etc.. and then marine start would be inside a spaceship / next of one this would give some use for mines..also, it would hard to see aliens, since there is bushes,trees etc..
I'm sure that outdoors could fit for ns..it all depends on how they are made...dont be so..err..simple minded..
I voted for the automated ranking System because it would be the most contructive addition. As soon as the "new" community gets big enough, server administrators could be able to set up different "player-level" servers. I would love to play on servers with players which accord to my actual (not existing) skill. Who needs vehicles or outdoormaps? This would destroy the wonderful Sci-Fi atmosphere which makes this game so special. Also, imagine all these stupid CO_VEHICLEFIGHT_B2232389 Maps on some custum map servers which spam the whole server list. New marine upgrades and alien lifeforms etc should be added later. All they do is to unbalance the game and steal more time from the developers who could actually do other things to improve the game.
As ModChaosControl already said, this game needs first "a huge gaphical update".
I'd rather see the new stuff left for NS2. NS:S should just be an updated version of NS. Of course there will be changes, but they should be changes that fix things that have been limited by the current engine, such as skulk wallwalking, the lerk flight animations and chambers on walls/ceilings. Other changes would be taking advantage of the new engine, such as much higher res textures, higher-poly models, ragdoll models and 'real' physics.
Let NS:S be the NS that the current engine wouldn't let it be, save the new stuff for NS2.
To be honest, thinking back, I think some sort of training level (perhaps in the form of a campaign, if it's possible) will be the best for the overall community so that everyone has the fun they need.
outdoor maps would possibly turn NS into another BF1942 online (sure way smaller maps), or in that case most games with "vehicles" where most people in the server lose enthusiasm over teamwork and just "RUSH TOT HE TANK!" or "AIRCRAFT" and see how many frags they can accumulate rather then go off and work as a team, OR it would turn into a "TK FEST" and people would now only fool around rather then work together as shown by the lack of maturity of gamers these days <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Id preferibly like to see new chambers of for Aliens as well as enw lifeforms and a higher tech tree for Marines.
why do the vehicles have to be offensive in nature? and just because there are vehicles does not mean that the game instantly turns into a TK fest. that just a sign of poor game design and/or the player base the game is focusing on IMO(vehicles just by name bring up the thought of tanks with indestructable armor on it) .
look at tribes 1 (or 2) for example it had both sides of the equation: the people who wanted to be the hero usually took the shrike and blasted off to the enemy base in an attempt to get the flag (or attack a bomber/ transport).
then you had the Transport the 180 of the shrike. If I was asked which vehicle was that most affected a win or lose, the transport would be it the fact that it had no offensive or defensive weapons on it except for what ever the players that were riding on it had forced to keep an eye out for anyone wanting to take a shot at them. Now this wasn't the everyone is chatting it up teamwork type, it was inherent(SP?) teamwork that was created by the game. not all vehicles had big arsed turrets on them or have missile racks that would make pamela anderson jealous (and on a plus side it would help fight the instant gratifacation crowd)
Way back when, it was awhile ago, I had a long list of great ways to improve some of NS's gameplay, a few of which are now comming back to me.
The on idea that I think would really add to gameplay and team work would be "team_physics" objects. Basically physics objects that only become moveable when 2 or more marines (depending on weight) hit +USE on them. Consider, movealbe ammo crates (something I want to see in coop mods) moveable defenses (think the barricade made in Aliens) etc. The posabilites are endless and the gameplay surronding them would be amazing. A marine upgrade could allow the objects to be welded in place (you get the idea), doors could be welded shut.
The alien counter to this of course is that skulks can get through becase halls cant be blocked all the way too the roof. This encourages players to play as skulks. The big alien counter is the Onos. Charge could knock the physics and welding back, killing rines etc. The Onos can also ram welded shut doors down.
Um, lets see, what else....
Commander: Think "Station Survylence System" cameras, microphones, you get the idea. Rines be give "bugs" to place around the map (limited # duh...) Mix this with say an optional 3d view of the base that can be rotated and has little blips for rines (think 3d overview, not just 2d map).
Rines and Aliens: Variety of view modes, night, infared, heat, carbon dioxies, nano, bacteria. All implemented with shaders.
Graphix!!!!
Shiny metal.....*drool* Water spills on floor (decals).... Displacement mapped infestation...... New, normal mapped alien models (I was working on a skulk awhile back...)..... Rines that now have their weapons attached.... Alines could "grow" improvents..... Lazers...... Contorl panels..... and Much Much more....
Oh, and weapons with integrated ammo counters and stuff so that the HUD can be used for more important things.
AND most importantly, ______2 settings for voice com, one locan and one radio______
this way players get heads up from players around them, while not confuseing other squads, and also keeping the radio open for general announcements to the commander and so that the commander generally has an open mic.
Also, if a commander has players selected (please make it easier) his "local" chat button, ie not radio, talks ONLY to those players.
With the Source Engine (with hopefully the removal of the amount of weapons that can be put into the game) maybe the devs could put in a whole slew of new techs. Right now, the marines can 1) upgrade their existing weapons 2) motion tracking 3) get different weapons 4)get jet packs or heavy armor. 5) a few others
What i'm suggesting is more buildings, more techs, more variation in the game. What if there were other buildings that could give other techs...Techs that I would think up myself and post them if I was creative enough! As the game is right now, there doesn't seem to be enough stuff <i>to do.</i> Hive lock down, jet pack rush (maybe not so much anymore... thank <i>you</i> 1.04...) heavy armor rush, MAYBE turteling with turrets right outside the alien starting hive. The aliens only need one thing to win.
A good fade.
Sure, there are exeptions like the 5 minute games ended by a skulk rush, or sticking around to get all three hives up, but...why bother? A good two hive fade is more than enough.
So..maybe the marines could use some new techs or weapons to give them a little nudge in the countering fade department.
Though i'm making it sound like the marines only need a new tech/weapon to counter fades, thats not what i'm trying to do. Look at Warcraft. Three tiers of techs, multiple buildings, multiple units, super units (tauren, frost wyrms, etc.) NS has a few different units, which is good, but there needs to be some sort of hard counter to more of them. Onos, which SHOULD be a really hard to beat unit, is easily torn to shreds when it doesn't have any room to meanuever due to it's behemoth size and the natural claustraphobic atmosphere (you'd think that because of the alien's "adapt and evolve" thing would kick in and make the onos smaller, but whatever.)
Well, ok, the Onos DOES have a hardcounter because of small spaces and an hmg group (I know, why isn't the onos running with his alien crew so they can help take down the hmgs) ...but then again, Oni would have a hard time with big open spaces (refinery hive, anyone?) where jetpackers reign supreme. So, onos are really confined to open space (but not TOO open!) And, instead of having an expensive end game unit, we have a unit that can keep marines at bay in elongated hallways.
Some of you are saying thats because the onos ISN'T an omnipotent end game unit, but maybe there SHOULD be one like that. Just put it at the top of a really long tech tree, it'll balance itself out...Maybe.
Is anyone getting at what i'm trying to say here? I confused myself, so if someone else would like to pick up the torch that would be great.
What I would like to see the most personally, is more atmosphere. Now NS is more of a fast pace action/rts game. I would like to see a more of a infested, aliens are taking over kinda feel to the game. Darkerhallways, broken lights, emegency doors you can weld shut kinda like the door in hera by the landing pad but aliens can slowly break it down and the door starts to bend in and break, samething with welded vents. I would like to move more away from the fast pace action and more into a slower, infesting, aliens are taking over kinda feel to it.
One of my ideas to help make vehicles seem more balanced(teh anti-vehicle!):
They aren't going to be a newbie's tool, or some godly monsteresque tank or 'hovering skorpian' of a unit, especially not a player. In fact, vehicles only really need to be for Marines to be balanced, as long as the Aliens get an effective counter. Alien vehicles would be very bad in my opinion, because Aliens are all about independent entities with a common goal, compared to the Marines, who have to use teamwork to accomplish most objectives, and are solely dependent on the commander. However, keeping in line with the general 'freelancing' of the Alien team, independent anti-vehicle Aliens would more than likely be a good choice. Since vehicles in NS are widely hated and seen as gigantic mechs and tanks, it makes it a huge mistake to implement them like that, and gives reason for smaller, more teamwork-oriented vehicles. To fit this, an anti-vehicle Alien would need to be agile, efficient, and able to evade any onboard weapons the vehicle might have, as well as standard Marine fire. I personally think of a creature with a long, slender body with plates covering it's back, and a hooked tail it can use to dangle from walls and ceilings, and quickly chop into any Marine opposition, as well as a standard bite attack when it's too enclosed to effectively use the tail swipe. To make up for the distance that would need to be covered, a 'trigger' parasite ability would create interesting scenarios. Basically, a miniscule parasite 'mine' that leaps onto any targets that get close enough, targeting vehicles more easily since they are a larger target. Since the parasite cannot live on its own without a host, there can only be two actively deployed at a time, since it would be solely supported by a link to the original Alien host. A fourth ability would need to be especially powerful under the right circumstances. For this, something along the lines of a energy 'siphon' would be the ultimate ability against vehicles, if it could get close enough to, and stay close enough to, the host vehicle, which would be drained slowly of fuel and power, healing the Alien and increasing its speed slightly and increasing energy regen greatly, as well as slowing the vehicle down as long as it is inside the range of the Alien.
I also have refined my idea for a support unit that could help counter any new Marine tech, but I'll save that for another post.
And yes, I do think too much.
Edit: Might still have some errors in it, but I think I fixed the main problem I saw...
I would love to see some sort of outdoor map with some veicles...
A jungle planet would provide you with pleny of ambush spots like bushes, high branches, it would be like walking in pillars... lots of hiding spots for aliens and almost none for the marines...
A planet would also have alot more resources that could be accesed then some old station with barley any nozzels...
So outdoor areas could create a new type of gamplay... I would love to see marine Turret implacements that a marine could mount... something similar for the aliens (Possobly any creature can evolve into one? or a gorge drops it and a lifeform can "merge" with it?)
Thats the type of veicles i would love to see...
New tech is a must both for aliens and marines... Flamethrowers dont seem to go well into NS... TSA doesnt seem that inhumane since their weapons were designed to deal with humans not aliens, even today the use of flamethrowers is questionable, The Nazi SS used them and today the veterans are deneing it.
A new life form could be a step in between a skulk and a fade... something that doesn't rely so much on hit and run...
Or 4th hive could lead to an even more massive unit... all of the lifeforms now seem a little bit stale with their own clear specialized jobs, everything has a clear counter, mabe something that will blur that line a bit and will force the commander/alliens to improvise and try diffrent aporaches instead of resutling to the tested strategies...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I would love to see some sort of outdoor map with some veicles...
A jungle planet would provide you with pleny of ambush spots like bushes, high branches, it would be like walking in pillars... lots of hiding spots for aliens and almost none for the marines...
A planet would also have alot more resources that could be accesed then some old station with barley any nozzels...
So outdoor areas could create a new type of gamplay... I would love to see marine Turret implacements that a marine could mount... something similar for the aliens (Possobly any creature can evolve into one? or a gorge drops it and a lifeform can "merge" with it?) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No.
There are no vents outdoors, there are no walls with which to wall climb, there are arbitrary limits on the skyline though.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> New tech is a must both for aliens and marines... Flamethrowers dont seem to go well into NS... TSA doesnt seem that inhumane since their weapons were designed to deal with humans not aliens, even today the use of flamethrowers is questionable, The Nazi SS used them and today the veterans are deneing it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Flamethrowers would be a great tool for INDOOR maps. See a skulk scurry into a vent? Torch it. OC's on another side of an "L" shaped corridor? Torch it. And i'm not sure comparing a war that happened in the 1940's to a war in the year 2XXX. I mean, a flamethrower is no more inhuman than a fricken ginormous caliber HMG.
A tree is a more organic vent... if you want... a tree can be rotten inside leading into an underground hive volla instant vent...
Flamethrowers: I dont think they can bounce off walls... can they? beacuse they use some sort of a fuel to egnite the flame... (some of the fuel gets sprayed on the target torching it) im not really sure about that though...
Why are people so fast to reject new ideas and fear to explore the unkown... About skulks going of the edge of a map... thats a good point... possobly it could be some sort of an isalnd? i dont know... thats a mjaor draw back...
I'm curious. How exactly would the aliens fight back against vehicles? A vehicle that moves fast would make it difficult for the aliens to attack. A vehicle that protects the marines from damage would give them freedom to destroy the aliens without being killed. For a vehicle to be balanced, it would have to be slow enough for aliens to attack, but it couldn't provide both protection to the marines and a way for the marines inside to attack the aliens. Then, what's the point of having vehicles?
Vehicles are a good idea for NS2. NS:S would require a huge change in gameplay for them to work, in my opinion, so they shouldn't be put in.
<!--QuoteBegin-Crisqo+May 10 2005, 10:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crisqo @ May 10 2005, 10:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I would love to see some sort of outdoor map with some veicles...
A jungle planet would provide you with pleny of ambush spots like bushes, high branches, it would be like walking in pillars... lots of hiding spots for aliens and almost none for the marines...
A planet would also have alot more resources that could be accesed then some old station with barley any nozzels...
So outdoor areas could create a new type of gamplay... I would love to see marine Turret implacements that a marine could mount... something similar for the aliens (Possobly any creature can evolve into one? or a gorge drops it and a lifeform can "merge" with it?) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No.
There are no vents outdoors, there are no walls with which to wall climb, there are arbitrary limits on the skyline though.
[QUOTE] <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> As that guy said, bushes,trees,etc..maybe some caves too.. outdoor map doesn't mean just a one big area with couple res nodes without any kind of walls..
anyways, You guys are so simple minded.. You can't say it's a horrible idea when you haven't played it. and no, the outdoor co/ns maps made by some random map makers ain't the greatest ones..
You guys should atleast give a shot for it..before saying ''it sucks''
<!--QuoteBegin-monk3y+May 9 2005, 04:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (monk3y @ May 9 2005, 04:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> hhmm okay.. this idea won't affect gameplay much..
For the Ready room, plz remove it and replace it with a TSA dropship! thats right! a tsa dropship!! the dropship will orbit the infested station, and there'll be a map on the walls or somewhere to display the game! this way, people can watch the game..
The dropship cannot affect gameplay.. also, there'll be Lmgs,pistols, knives and stuff in the dropship.
Maps will turn on After 1 minute to prevent players from finding the hive in 10 seconds.
Btw, NO VEHICLES!! INDOOR MAPS ONLY!!
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I don't want outdoor maps. I want more complex maps. I want multi-level towers, more weld points, more destructable points, vent systems that can be changed mid-game, etc. Outdoors would wind up with some sticky issues. Lerks trying to go orbital and that sort of thing. Not to mention that the primary advantage of skulking (wall climbing) is completely negated by outdoor maps unless they're so tight that they might as well be indoor anyway with a different texture applied. And if that's the case, I think there's better things Flayra could spend his time on.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
what this guy said.. For the multi-leveled facilties, make a zoom in- zoom out feature.. so the comm can zoom in on different levels.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Someone is/has worked on this zoom in zoom out commander mode and it worked nice.
Also vehicles to me would be fine. BUT they shud be map specific. For example Broken Jeep that has a welder box on side. Once welded you can take the small one man jeep around the area of the map. To get rts.
Ofcourse the jeep wouldnt fit all maps tho. As i said vehicles that are MAP specific.
But it would be cool to see a skulk leap on the back of a jeep biting the fuel tank and then it setting on fire. The skulk leaping away just singed and the marine blowing out on fire dead on the floor... druels...
Also more commander features and tech would be nice. Small remote cameras that the marines can place around the map and that the commander can watch through a small box (vgui2?) that the commander can flick through would be cool.
Also as the commander has control of the ship he should have more functions like. Turn lights in areas to pulse and stuff. Also he shud have control to the Security system and Camera's ect.
Also new type of lands and terrain. For example in some areas have sludgey ground that slows marines down but makes aliens alow to run at same speed. This would balance areas out and also give some really nice and spooky scenery and style.
Comments
maye kinda remaking the marine upgrades would make sense here. the alien upgrades seem kinda finished to me, maybe a new lifeform. would be nice to see some kind of super defensive alien that uses the webs from the gorge and the umbra of the lerk to secure the hive areas more effectively.
<!--QuoteBegin-Kwil+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kwil)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I certainly don't want vehicles other than as map-specific devices -- the drop ship, the rail car, etc. Though as such they probably wouldn't be bad.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
regarding moving dropships in maps: we could already have them in maps. however, the dev team removed the necessary entities to create dynamic model movement from the ns.fgd. thats what mappers are still little bit angry about because it takes away the option to create some additional atmospheric elements. shure, you wont be able to use it but just imagine how cool this would be...
This Level has some speed tubes on the sides,going from the Rine-Side of the Map to the Alien-Side and back, and a thin Castle-Look-A-Like Marine-Start(looks nice but didn't help that much).
Rines are good at mining the CC there, while Lerks ruled the air with the poison-spores
Alltogether, this map was pretty nice balanced (on the alien-Side, i was able to become onos and destroyed the CC / on the Rine-Side, I've gone Jetpacker to take the Hive out)
So, in fact, it is the Level-Designer, who can make the game balanced, for Example:
Think of an military base with sewers and tunnels under it, the rines cannot take a Vehicle inside the Sewers and tunnels(except, if there is a Transport-Tunnel).
and if a skulk can make it, to hop on a Vehicle, it might bite the driver directly, if he doesn't get out quickly enough
------ PS: why is Poison spores destroying my armor, when I'm not HA??? ------
but what we all need is BABBLERS ! <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo-->
plus vehicles only for marines, maybe a fade... but a skulk driving, lol that would be something, it would have to be just rines and maybe fade able to drive... but it would be fun to play around with for a bit...
now if your talking about the vehicles on a track so marines can get around better, wouldnt be as much fun but it would be nice, but it would have to be indoors on a long angled hallway or something... would be pretty tight... but i just dont see this happining in the next update... if this is in the new update i will be severly shocked
i think you should go with the marine tech tree
and then marine start would be inside a spaceship / next of one
this would give some use for mines..also, it would hard to see aliens, since there is
bushes,trees etc..
I'm sure that outdoors could fit for ns..it all depends on how they are made...dont be so..err..simple minded..
But i think BABBLERS > anything
Who needs vehicles or outdoormaps? This would destroy the wonderful Sci-Fi atmosphere which makes this game so special. Also, imagine all these stupid CO_VEHICLEFIGHT_B2232389 Maps on some custum map servers which spam the whole server list.
New marine upgrades and alien lifeforms etc should be added later. All they do is to unbalance the game and steal more time from the developers who could actually do other things to improve the game.
As ModChaosControl already said, this game needs first "a huge gaphical update".
Sorry for my bad English.
<!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Let NS:S be the NS that the current engine wouldn't let it be, save the new stuff for NS2.
look at tribes 1 (or 2) for example it had both sides of the equation:
the people who wanted to be the hero usually took the shrike and blasted off to the enemy base in an attempt to get the flag (or attack a bomber/ transport).
then you had the Transport the 180 of the shrike. If I was asked which vehicle was that most affected a win or lose, the transport would be it the fact that it had no offensive or defensive weapons on it except for what ever the players that were riding on it had forced to keep an eye out for anyone wanting to take a shot at them. Now this wasn't the everyone is chatting it up teamwork type, it was inherent(SP?) teamwork that was created by the game. not all vehicles had big arsed turrets on them or have missile racks that would make pamela anderson jealous (and on a plus side it would help fight the instant gratifacation crowd)
The on idea that I think would really add to gameplay and team work would be "team_physics" objects. Basically physics objects that only become moveable when 2 or more marines (depending on weight) hit +USE on them. Consider, movealbe ammo crates (something I want to see in coop mods) moveable defenses (think the barricade made in Aliens) etc. The posabilites are endless and the gameplay surronding them would be amazing. A marine upgrade could allow the objects to be welded in place (you get the idea), doors could be welded shut.
The alien counter to this of course is that skulks can get through becase halls cant be blocked all the way too the roof. This encourages players to play as skulks. The big alien counter is the Onos. Charge could knock the physics and welding back, killing rines etc. The Onos can also ram welded shut doors down.
Um, lets see, what else....
Commander:
Think "Station Survylence System" cameras, microphones, you get the idea. Rines be give "bugs" to place around the map (limited # duh...)
Mix this with say an optional 3d view of the base that can be rotated and has little blips for rines (think 3d overview, not just 2d map).
Rines and Aliens:
Variety of view modes, night, infared, heat, carbon dioxies, nano, bacteria. All implemented with shaders.
Graphix!!!!
Shiny metal.....*drool*
Water spills on floor (decals)....
Displacement mapped infestation......
New, normal mapped alien models (I was working on a skulk awhile back...).....
Rines that now have their weapons attached....
Alines could "grow" improvents.....
Lazers......
Contorl panels.....
and Much Much more....
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EDIT: Wait, Wait! What am I thinking...
A Lerk that FLAPS!!!!!!
EDIT2:
Oh, and weapons with integrated ammo counters and stuff so that the HUD can be used for more important things.
AND most importantly,
______2 settings for voice com, one locan and one radio______
this way players get heads up from players around them, while not confuseing other squads, and also keeping the radio open for general announcements to the commander and so that the commander generally has an open mic.
Also, if a commander has players selected (please make it easier) his "local" chat button, ie not radio, talks ONLY to those players.
With the Source Engine (with hopefully the removal of the amount of weapons that can be put into the game) maybe the devs could put in a whole slew of new techs. Right now, the marines can 1) upgrade their existing weapons 2) motion tracking 3) get different weapons 4)get jet packs or heavy armor. 5) a few others
What i'm suggesting is more buildings, more techs, more variation in the game. What if there were other buildings that could give other techs...Techs that I would think up myself and post them if I was creative enough! As the game is right now, there doesn't seem to be enough stuff <i>to do.</i> Hive lock down, jet pack rush (maybe not so much anymore... thank <i>you</i> 1.04...) heavy armor rush, MAYBE turteling with turrets right outside the alien starting hive. The aliens only need one thing to win.
A good fade.
Sure, there are exeptions like the 5 minute games ended by a skulk rush, or sticking around to get all three hives up, but...why bother? A good two hive fade is more than enough.
So..maybe the marines could use some new techs or weapons to give them a little nudge in the countering fade department.
Though i'm making it sound like the marines only need a new tech/weapon to counter fades, thats not what i'm trying to do. Look at Warcraft. Three tiers of techs, multiple buildings, multiple units, super units (tauren, frost wyrms, etc.) NS has a few different units, which is good, but there needs to be some sort of hard counter to more of them. Onos, which SHOULD be a really hard to beat unit, is easily torn to shreds when it doesn't have any room to meanuever due to it's behemoth size and the natural claustraphobic atmosphere (you'd think that because of the alien's "adapt and evolve" thing would kick in and make the onos smaller, but whatever.)
Well, ok, the Onos DOES have a hardcounter because of small spaces and an hmg group (I know, why isn't the onos running with his alien crew so they can help take down the hmgs) ...but then again, Oni would have a hard time with big open spaces (refinery hive, anyone?) where jetpackers reign supreme. So, onos are really confined to open space (but not TOO open!) And, instead of having an expensive end game unit, we have a unit that can keep marines at bay in elongated hallways.
Some of you are saying thats because the onos ISN'T an omnipotent end game unit, but maybe there SHOULD be one like that. Just put it at the top of a really long tech tree, it'll balance itself out...Maybe.
Is anyone getting at what i'm trying to say here? I confused myself, so if someone else would like to pick up the torch that would be great.
...More techs!
They aren't going to be a newbie's tool, or some godly monsteresque tank or 'hovering skorpian' of a unit, especially not a player. In fact, vehicles only really need to be for Marines to be balanced, as long as the Aliens get an effective counter. Alien vehicles would be very bad in my opinion, because Aliens are all about independent entities with a common goal, compared to the Marines, who have to use teamwork to accomplish most objectives, and are solely dependent on the commander. However, keeping in line with the general 'freelancing' of the Alien team, independent anti-vehicle Aliens would more than likely be a good choice. Since vehicles in NS are widely hated and seen as gigantic mechs and tanks, it makes it a huge mistake to implement them like that, and gives reason for smaller, more teamwork-oriented vehicles. To fit this, an anti-vehicle Alien would need to be agile, efficient, and able to evade any onboard weapons the vehicle might have, as well as standard Marine fire. I personally think of a creature with a long, slender body with plates covering it's back, and a hooked tail it can use to dangle from walls and ceilings, and quickly chop into any Marine opposition, as well as a standard bite attack when it's too enclosed to effectively use the tail swipe. To make up for the distance that would need to be covered, a 'trigger' parasite ability would create interesting scenarios. Basically, a miniscule parasite 'mine' that leaps onto any targets that get close enough, targeting vehicles more easily since they are a larger target. Since the parasite cannot live on its own without a host, there can only be two actively deployed at a time, since it would be solely supported by a link to the original Alien host. A fourth ability would need to be especially powerful under the right circumstances. For this, something along the lines of a energy 'siphon' would be the ultimate ability against vehicles, if it could get close enough to, and stay close enough to, the host vehicle, which would be drained slowly of fuel and power, healing the Alien and increasing its speed slightly and increasing energy regen greatly, as well as slowing the vehicle down as long as it is inside the range of the Alien.
I also have refined my idea for a support unit that could help counter any new Marine tech, but I'll save that for another post.
And yes, I do think too much.
Edit: Might still have some errors in it, but I think I fixed the main problem I saw...
A jungle planet would provide you with pleny of ambush spots like bushes, high branches, it would be like walking in pillars... lots of hiding spots for aliens and almost none for the marines...
A planet would also have alot more resources that could be accesed then some old station with barley any nozzels...
So outdoor areas could create a new type of gamplay... I would love to see marine Turret implacements that a marine could mount... something similar for the aliens (Possobly any creature can evolve into one? or a gorge drops it and a lifeform can "merge" with it?)
Thats the type of veicles i would love to see...
New tech is a must both for aliens and marines... Flamethrowers dont seem to go well into NS... TSA doesnt seem that inhumane since their weapons were designed to deal with humans not aliens, even today the use of flamethrowers is questionable, The Nazi SS used them and today the veterans are deneing it.
A new life form could be a step in between a skulk and a fade... something that doesn't rely so much on hit and run...
Or 4th hive could lead to an even more massive unit... all of the lifeforms now seem a little bit stale with their own clear specialized jobs, everything has a clear counter, mabe something that will blur that line a bit and will force the commander/alliens to improvise and try diffrent aporaches instead of resutling to the tested strategies...
A non hit and run alien would be nice for a change.
A jungle planet would provide you with pleny of ambush spots like bushes, high branches, it would be like walking in pillars... lots of hiding spots for aliens and almost none for the marines...
A planet would also have alot more resources that could be accesed then some old station with barley any nozzels...
So outdoor areas could create a new type of gamplay... I would love to see marine Turret implacements that a marine could mount... something similar for the aliens (Possobly any creature can evolve into one? or a gorge drops it and a lifeform can "merge" with it?)
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No.
There are no vents outdoors, there are no walls with which to wall climb, there are arbitrary limits on the skyline though.
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New tech is a must both for aliens and marines... Flamethrowers dont seem to go well into NS... TSA doesnt seem that inhumane since their weapons were designed to deal with humans not aliens, even today the use of flamethrowers is questionable, The Nazi SS used them and today the veterans are deneing it.
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Flamethrowers would be a great tool for INDOOR maps. See a skulk scurry into a vent? Torch it. OC's on another side of an "L" shaped corridor? Torch it.
And i'm not sure comparing a war that happened in the 1940's to a war in the year 2XXX. I mean, a flamethrower is no more inhuman than a fricken ginormous caliber HMG.
Flamethrowers: I dont think they can bounce off walls... can they? beacuse they use some sort of a fuel to egnite the flame... (some of the fuel gets sprayed on the target torching it) im not really sure about that though...
Why are people so fast to reject new ideas and fear to explore the unkown... About skulks going of the edge of a map... thats a good point... possobly it could be some sort of an isalnd? i dont know... thats a mjaor draw back...
Vehicles are a good idea for NS2. NS:S would require a huge change in gameplay for them to work, in my opinion, so they shouldn't be put in.
A jungle planet would provide you with pleny of ambush spots like bushes, high branches, it would be like walking in pillars... lots of hiding spots for aliens and almost none for the marines...
A planet would also have alot more resources that could be accesed then some old station with barley any nozzels...
So outdoor areas could create a new type of gamplay... I would love to see marine Turret implacements that a marine could mount... something similar for the aliens (Possobly any creature can evolve into one? or a gorge drops it and a lifeform can "merge" with it?)
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No.
There are no vents outdoors, there are no walls with which to wall climb, there are arbitrary limits on the skyline though.
[QUOTE]
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As that guy said, bushes,trees,etc..maybe some caves too..
outdoor map doesn't mean just a one big area with couple res nodes without any kind of walls..
anyways,
You guys are so simple minded..
You can't say it's a horrible idea when you haven't played it.
and no, the outdoor co/ns maps made by some random map makers ain't the greatest ones..
You guys should atleast give a shot for it..before saying ''it sucks''
For the Ready room, plz remove it and replace it with a TSA dropship! thats right! a tsa dropship!! the dropship will orbit the infested station, and there'll be a map on the walls or somewhere to display the game! this way, people can watch the game..
The dropship cannot affect gameplay.. also, there'll be Lmgs,pistols, knives and stuff in the dropship.
Maps will turn on After 1 minute to prevent players from finding the hive in 10 seconds.
Btw, NO VEHICLES!! INDOOR MAPS ONLY!!
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I don't want outdoor maps. I want more complex maps. I want multi-level towers, more weld points, more destructable points, vent systems that can be changed mid-game, etc. Outdoors would wind up with some sticky issues. Lerks trying to go orbital and that sort of thing. Not to mention that the primary advantage of skulking (wall climbing) is completely negated by outdoor maps unless they're so tight that they might as well be indoor anyway with a different texture applied. And if that's the case, I think there's better things Flayra could spend his time on.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
what this guy said.. For the multi-leveled facilties, make a zoom in- zoom out feature.. so the comm can zoom in on different levels.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Someone is/has worked on this zoom in zoom out commander mode and it worked nice.
Also vehicles to me would be fine. BUT they shud be map specific. For example
Broken Jeep that has a welder box on side. Once welded you can take the small one man jeep around the area of the map. To get rts.
Ofcourse the jeep wouldnt fit all maps tho. As i said vehicles that are MAP specific.
But it would be cool to see a skulk leap on the back of a jeep biting the fuel tank and then it setting on fire. The skulk leaping away just singed and the marine blowing out on fire dead on the floor... druels...
Also more commander features and tech would be nice. Small remote cameras that the marines can place around the map and that the commander can watch through a small box (vgui2?) that the commander can flick through would be cool.
Also as the commander has control of the ship he should have more functions like. Turn lights in areas to pulse and stuff. Also he shud have control to the Security system and Camera's ect.
Also new type of lands and terrain. For example in some areas have sludgey ground that slows marines down but makes aliens alow to run at same speed. This would balance areas out and also give some really nice and spooky scenery and style.
You like?