QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This post has been edited by antifreeze on May 26 2005, 11:35 AM <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
PulseTo create, to create and escape.Join Date: 2002-08-29Member: 1248Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-Pulse+May 27 2005, 09:38 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Pulse @ May 27 2005, 09:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So it was edited into a post on the second page, <b>probably after me and Gwahir had read it it</b>? GG.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
*I have edited this post for supidty. Most of it has been cleaned, but the user still remains. Cleaning process may continue later with continued stupidity from user*
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
I wonder if the animations take into account the ability of the animal to throw around their weight? it looks like its just moving the legs and letting the rest of the body compensate for it, which lends itself to centipede-like movement. I hope you can recreate the movement physics of say, a cheetah or a human.
Oh it does.. all with algorithms. It's a sort of unified design that is applied to all creatures. Weight/muscle mass and bone structure are calculated right there on the spot
<!--QuoteBegin-moultano+May 28 2005, 11:31 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ May 28 2005, 11:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I wonder if the animations take into account the ability of the animal to throw around their weight? it looks like its just moving the legs and letting the rest of the body compensate for it, which lends itself to centipede-like movement. I hope you can recreate the movement physics of say, a cheetah or a human. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah it looked like that to me too. You can tell they haven't implemented that yet from the creature with the big head and lots of beaks. The legs move and the body sways as it follows. Naturally, any creature like that would move its body and legs at the same time so it doesn't rock side to side when it walks and turns. Just nit picking at the moment though.
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
edited May 2005
<!--QuoteBegin-MrRadicalEd+May 27 2005, 06:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrRadicalEd @ May 27 2005, 06:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Oh it does.. all with algorithms. It's a sort of unified design that is applied to all creatures. Weight/muscle mass and bone structure are calculated right there on the spot <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I know that, it just didn't look like the creatures were using their weight as leverage. For instance, when humans walk, they don't put a foot forward and slide onto it. They start falling forward and put their foot down to catch themselves. When things move they throw their weight around to make moving more efficient. Hence, birds bobbing their heads, squirrels moving their tails, etc. I want to see that kind of behavior in there.
remiremedy [blu.knight]Join Date: 2003-11-18Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
That might be asking for too much. I'm amazed that they can even do this much. Maybe they could make better procedural animations like you describe, or maybe they could do that for like... Spore 2 or something. I don't think it's necessary, the creatures' animations look extremely fluid as it is.
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
<!--QuoteBegin-Psyke+May 27 2005, 07:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Psyke @ May 27 2005, 07:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> That might be asking for too much. I'm amazed that they can even do this much. Maybe they could make better procedural animations like you describe, or maybe they could do that for like... Spore 2 or something. I don't think it's necessary, the creatures' animations look extremely fluid as it is. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> They look fluid certainly, and I can't say I would be disappointed with the game inherently without it, and maybe they even have it implemented and it didn't appear noticably in the demo, but if it isn't in the game I worry about the effect it will have on gameplay.
For years in game design players have always found things the designers didn't intend (bunnyhopping, rocketjumping, etc.), and I'm worried that without more complicated kinematics, people are going to settle on the fastest thing they can make, and everything will end up moving like a centipede.
remiremedy [blu.knight]Join Date: 2003-11-18Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
There's no competition among players here though. I mean yes, some people will probably try to make the fastest creature, but their creatures might not be very liked. It's not like multiplayer, you can just get other people's creatures to populate your universe. (and your creations populate other peoples).
There should be some very interesting things. I'm hoping that some of the time between now and release date will be spent debugging the animation code and making sure it works with even the most absurd creations.
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
edited May 2005
<!--QuoteBegin-Psyke+May 27 2005, 08:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Psyke @ May 27 2005, 08:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There's no competition among players here though. I mean yes, some people will probably try to make the fastest creature, but their creatures might not be very liked. It's not like multiplayer, you can just get other people's creatures to populate your universe. (and your creations populate other peoples).
There should be some very interesting things. I'm hoping that some of the time between now and release date will be spent debugging the animation code and making sure it works with even the most absurd creations. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Thing is I think the worlds are populated with creatures just using a "fitness" metric, which I imagine would select the fastest moving. Maybe not, but shouldn't it?
To get the fastest moving creature I want to have to make something that looks and moves like a cheetah. I want them to make the design parts as challenging to get perfect as designing an animal in the real world would be.
BadKarmaThe Advanced Literature monsters burned my house and gave me a 7Join Date: 2002-11-12Member: 8260Members
<!--QuoteBegin-moultano+May 27 2005, 09:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ May 27 2005, 09:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Psyke+May 27 2005, 08:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Psyke @ May 27 2005, 08:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There's no competition among players here though. I mean yes, some people will probably try to make the fastest creature, but their creatures might not be very liked. It's not like multiplayer, you can just get other people's creatures to populate your universe. (and your creations populate other peoples).
There should be some very interesting things. I'm hoping that some of the time between now and release date will be spent debugging the animation code and making sure it works with even the most absurd creations. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Thing is I think the worlds are populated with creatures just using a "fitness" metric, which I imagine would select the fastest moving. Maybe not, but shouldn't it?
To get the fastest moving creature I want to have to make something that looks and moves like a cheetah. I want them to make the design parts as challenging to get perfect as designing an animal in the real world would be. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Or something really big. Nobody eats you if you're just too friggin big.
When this game comes out, it's bound for someone to make a planet of Midichlorians.....
And I'm pretty sure we all know what we'll do with it once it has been uploaded to ours <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-BadKarma+May 28 2005, 12:57 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BadKarma @ May 28 2005, 12:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-moultano+May 27 2005, 09:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ May 27 2005, 09:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Psyke+May 27 2005, 08:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Psyke @ May 27 2005, 08:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There's no competition among players here though. I mean yes, some people will probably try to make the fastest creature, but their creatures might not be very liked. It's not like multiplayer, you can just get other people's creatures to populate your universe. (and your creations populate other peoples).
There should be some very interesting things. I'm hoping that some of the time between now and release date will be spent debugging the animation code and making sure it works with even the most absurd creations. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Thing is I think the worlds are populated with creatures just using a "fitness" metric, which I imagine would select the fastest moving. Maybe not, but shouldn't it?
To get the fastest moving creature I want to have to make something that looks and moves like a cheetah. I want them to make the design parts as challenging to get perfect as designing an animal in the real world would be. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Or something really big. Nobody eats you if you're just too friggin big. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> There's probably some sort of resource system that prevents you from making extremely powerful creatures. A huge, fast moving creature would require lots of food, meaning that it could be balanced by getting hungry really quickly.
The game does seem to have a point; to be the most biologically sucessful organism (depending if you want to rule the galaxy or not); at least with the ability to form alliances and such.
The interview marked above does remark about how many resources you'd actually spend setting up colonies/destroying worlds/making creature hybrids
Specifically: <!--QuoteBegin-Will Wright+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Will Wright)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Each level of the game you're setting some kind of aspect of the creature. Like in the creature mode, you're setting whether they're group or solo, so if they're herd creatures or very individual. In the tribal you're setting if whether they're emotional or logical. In the city one we're still kind of playing with and will still probably change. In the civ level you're basically setting diplomatic/imperial you know, diplomatic you're kind doing alliances with people you're fairly peaceful; imperialistic, you're conquering people. When you get to the space level, you're actually first are at … let me see which one is this, this is the overview of the space game where you're terraforming/colonizing and you're actually interacting with other creatures and making alliances. There's a terraforming … as you terraform, this is kind of the rough idea is that every planet has a “T Score” from zero to ten, “B Score”, which is a biosphere score, and a “P Score”, which is the population score of your colony. Depending where the planets are relative to the sun they can have maximum T Scores. So planets that are really far away or really close to the center can have very low T Scores and you can never terraform them, they’re very high. Other ones will be moderately useful, like T6. That’s going cap the B Score so if I actually get an atmosphere up to a T6, which is this range. At this point, plants will live, animals won't, and colonies will be fairly expensive still. And so, this is kind of the terraform/colonization game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It seems as though the problem will lie in in-effectual AI; but the AI wasn't really the showcase of the GDC (aside from "the computer will handle downloaded planets"). It seems to open in the sense that you don't seem to be able to die. Like the one part, where he's being chased by the creature that he later drops on a moon: what happens if that kills your creature?
[I would assume you'd take over a new creature (like the one that was mated with), or lose evolution points or something.]
Also since some people seem curious: the inteview also talks about how fur (and fur density) along with feathers and skins are possible. It seems to be a lot like Sim City in the "Here's your stuff, do what you want" feel; only there's a lot more to do. I'm a bit concerned with the limit evolution aspects of the creature (and city building purposes); but I'm sure those were only less fleshed-out because it's focusing on game development into new territories with procedural algorithms. Hopefully it will be customizable how in-depth you really need to go (such as dropping police stations in your cities or something - as the building he placed really had no expressed purpose).
BadKarmaThe Advanced Literature monsters burned my house and gave me a 7Join Date: 2002-11-12Member: 8260Members
<!--QuoteBegin-theclam+May 28 2005, 01:21 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ May 28 2005, 01:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-BadKarma+May 28 2005, 12:57 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BadKarma @ May 28 2005, 12:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-moultano+May 27 2005, 09:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ May 27 2005, 09:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Psyke+May 27 2005, 08:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Psyke @ May 27 2005, 08:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There's no competition among players here though. I mean yes, some people will probably try to make the fastest creature, but their creatures might not be very liked. It's not like multiplayer, you can just get other people's creatures to populate your universe. (and your creations populate other peoples).
There should be some very interesting things. I'm hoping that some of the time between now and release date will be spent debugging the animation code and making sure it works with even the most absurd creations. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Thing is I think the worlds are populated with creatures just using a "fitness" metric, which I imagine would select the fastest moving. Maybe not, but shouldn't it?
To get the fastest moving creature I want to have to make something that looks and moves like a cheetah. I want them to make the design parts as challenging to get perfect as designing an animal in the real world would be. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Or something really big. Nobody eats you if you're just too friggin big. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> There's probably some sort of resource system that prevents you from making extremely powerful creatures. A huge, fast moving creature would require lots of food, meaning that it could be balanced by getting hungry really quickly. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I meant like, elephant big. Nothin eats an elephant. Or a blue whale.
The thing is, if you spend THAT many points making a huge creature/ridiculously powerful hunter, it'll take you a long time to get to the civ stage, because you won't have the points for intelligence. Of course, this will only be a detriment if you're actually playing other people, because their intelligence will trump your powerful animal...mulitplayer action would prove to be an excellent way to balance power and intelligence; keep up with your neighbors in intelligence, or be overrun.
Comments
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Gwahir @ May 27 2005, 09:28 AM<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
kthx
Yeah it looked like that to me too. You can tell they haven't implemented that yet from the creature with the big head and lots of beaks. The legs move and the body sways as it follows. Naturally, any creature like that would move its body and legs at the same time so it doesn't rock side to side when it walks and turns. Just nit picking at the moment though.
I know that, it just didn't look like the creatures were using their weight as leverage. For instance, when humans walk, they don't put a foot forward and slide onto it. They start falling forward and put their foot down to catch themselves. When things move they throw their weight around to make moving more efficient. Hence, birds bobbing their heads, squirrels moving their tails, etc. I want to see that kind of behavior in there.
They look fluid certainly, and I can't say I would be disappointed with the game inherently without it, and maybe they even have it implemented and it didn't appear noticably in the demo, but if it isn't in the game I worry about the effect it will have on gameplay.
For years in game design players have always found things the designers didn't intend (bunnyhopping, rocketjumping, etc.), and I'm worried that without more complicated kinematics, people are going to settle on the fastest thing they can make, and everything will end up moving like a centipede.
There should be some very interesting things. I'm hoping that some of the time between now and release date will be spent debugging the animation code and making sure it works with even the most absurd creations.
There should be some very interesting things. I'm hoping that some of the time between now and release date will be spent debugging the animation code and making sure it works with even the most absurd creations. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thing is I think the worlds are populated with creatures just using a "fitness" metric, which I imagine would select the fastest moving. Maybe not, but shouldn't it?
To get the fastest moving creature I want to have to make something that looks and moves like a cheetah. I want them to make the design parts as challenging to get perfect as designing an animal in the real world would be.
There should be some very interesting things. I'm hoping that some of the time between now and release date will be spent debugging the animation code and making sure it works with even the most absurd creations. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thing is I think the worlds are populated with creatures just using a "fitness" metric, which I imagine would select the fastest moving. Maybe not, but shouldn't it?
To get the fastest moving creature I want to have to make something that looks and moves like a cheetah. I want them to make the design parts as challenging to get perfect as designing an animal in the real world would be. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or something really big. Nobody eats you if you're just too friggin big.
And I'm pretty sure we all know what we'll do with it once it has been uploaded to ours <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
There should be some very interesting things. I'm hoping that some of the time between now and release date will be spent debugging the animation code and making sure it works with even the most absurd creations. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thing is I think the worlds are populated with creatures just using a "fitness" metric, which I imagine would select the fastest moving. Maybe not, but shouldn't it?
To get the fastest moving creature I want to have to make something that looks and moves like a cheetah. I want them to make the design parts as challenging to get perfect as designing an animal in the real world would be. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or something really big. Nobody eats you if you're just too friggin big. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's probably some sort of resource system that prevents you from making extremely powerful creatures. A huge, fast moving creature would require lots of food, meaning that it could be balanced by getting hungry really quickly.
The interview marked above does remark about how many resources you'd actually spend setting up colonies/destroying worlds/making creature hybrids
Specifically:
<!--QuoteBegin-Will Wright+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Will Wright)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Each level of the game you're setting some kind of aspect of the creature. Like in the creature mode, you're setting whether they're group or solo, so if they're herd creatures or very individual. In the tribal you're setting if whether they're emotional or logical. In the city one we're still kind of playing with and will still probably change. In the civ level you're basically setting diplomatic/imperial you know, diplomatic you're kind doing alliances with people you're fairly peaceful; imperialistic, you're conquering people. When you get to the space level, you're actually first are at … let me see which one is this, this is the overview of the space game where you're terraforming/colonizing and you're actually interacting with other creatures and making alliances. There's a terraforming … as you terraform, this is kind of the rough idea is that every planet has a “T Score” from zero to ten, “B Score”, which is a biosphere score, and a “P Score”, which is the population score of your colony. Depending where the planets are relative to the sun they can have maximum T Scores. So planets that are really far away or really close to the center can have very low T Scores and you can never terraform them, they’re very high. Other ones will be moderately useful, like T6. That’s going cap the B Score so if I actually get an atmosphere up to a T6, which is this range. At this point, plants will live, animals won't, and colonies will be fairly expensive still. And so, this is kind of the terraform/colonization game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It seems as though the problem will lie in in-effectual AI; but the AI wasn't really the showcase of the GDC (aside from "the computer will handle downloaded planets"). It seems to open in the sense that you don't seem to be able to die. Like the one part, where he's being chased by the creature that he later drops on a moon: what happens if that kills your creature?
[I would assume you'd take over a new creature (like the one that was mated with), or lose evolution points or something.]
Also since some people seem curious: the inteview also talks about how fur (and fur density) along with feathers and skins are possible. It seems to be a lot like Sim City in the "Here's your stuff, do what you want" feel; only there's a lot more to do. I'm a bit concerned with the limit evolution aspects of the creature (and city building purposes); but I'm sure those were only less fleshed-out because it's focusing on game development into new territories with procedural algorithms. Hopefully it will be customizable how in-depth you really need to go (such as dropping police stations in your cities or something - as the building he placed really had no expressed purpose).
There should be some very interesting things. I'm hoping that some of the time between now and release date will be spent debugging the animation code and making sure it works with even the most absurd creations. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thing is I think the worlds are populated with creatures just using a "fitness" metric, which I imagine would select the fastest moving. Maybe not, but shouldn't it?
To get the fastest moving creature I want to have to make something that looks and moves like a cheetah. I want them to make the design parts as challenging to get perfect as designing an animal in the real world would be. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or something really big. Nobody eats you if you're just too friggin big. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's probably some sort of resource system that prevents you from making extremely powerful creatures. A huge, fast moving creature would require lots of food, meaning that it could be balanced by getting hungry really quickly. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I meant like, elephant big. Nothin eats an elephant. Or a blue whale.
edit: I should make a planet of tiny multi-legged creatures with big, big teeth
Somebody, I need help!