American Soldiers Desicrate The Holy Quran In Iraq
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Join Date: 2005-01-07 Member: 33343Members
Join Date: 2005-01-07 Member: 33343Members
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<div class="IPBDescription">When will this end?</div> New information about American Soldiers Desicrating the Holy Qu'ran in Iraq has been been spreading all across the globe. Muslims all over the globe are furious at this action.
Quote: Guest speaker
They tore up the Qu'ran, threw it in the toilet bins, yelled at detainees, "extra extra, read all about it, read how to kill." They then proceeded to take away the privelages of detainees by taking away their long sleeved pants in prayer, purposely desicrating detainees during prayer by standing infront of them and behind them. The American Soldiers then abused the detainees, attacked them during sleep, and they Desicrated the Holy Qu'ran by throwing it on the ground, purposely dropping it and using it as "shooting targets."
The desicration in Iraq has been kept secret for days now. The Pakistani Television show has aired this speaker all week long and to my knowledge, a Holy War is about to start. For myself, the american soldiers in Iraq who have done this should be burned, burried alive, and have their throats cut to their stomachs. This is sick, vile and disgusting to learn that the people who "protect us" think that they have the right to humiliate us in any way possible because they "Are the government and they can do w/e they want."
Please post comments. But please, if you want to be a **** and say it's good, how about you PM me and let's talk. Don't let me embarrass you here beacuse I'm more civilised then that. And yes, Please discuss.
NO **** ALLOWED TO DISCUSS. If you don't have anything nice to say about on my opinions, PM me, don't embarrass your self here.
Quote: Guest speaker
They tore up the Qu'ran, threw it in the toilet bins, yelled at detainees, "extra extra, read all about it, read how to kill." They then proceeded to take away the privelages of detainees by taking away their long sleeved pants in prayer, purposely desicrating detainees during prayer by standing infront of them and behind them. The American Soldiers then abused the detainees, attacked them during sleep, and they Desicrated the Holy Qu'ran by throwing it on the ground, purposely dropping it and using it as "shooting targets."
The desicration in Iraq has been kept secret for days now. The Pakistani Television show has aired this speaker all week long and to my knowledge, a Holy War is about to start. For myself, the american soldiers in Iraq who have done this should be burned, burried alive, and have their throats cut to their stomachs. This is sick, vile and disgusting to learn that the people who "protect us" think that they have the right to humiliate us in any way possible because they "Are the government and they can do w/e they want."
Please post comments. But please, if you want to be a **** and say it's good, how about you PM me and let's talk. Don't let me embarrass you here beacuse I'm more civilised then that. And yes, Please discuss.
NO **** ALLOWED TO DISCUSS. If you don't have anything nice to say about on my opinions, PM me, don't embarrass your self here.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
It is a travesty that the Americans go around abusing what is the artifact of another religion. Yes, it is wrong, and should be contained. This kind of thing really is not acceptable in modern society.
However, it can be seen as a reversal of fortune for the soldiers involved in the act, as they may have lost close friends in the past months that they have been stationed out in the middle of a country that, obviously, people do not want them in. The other soldiers stationed there are being bombarded by suicide bombers, and attack teams, but they stand firm, as do not pull out. The soldiers are there to try to prtect the government that is being formed, and is in its infacy. They act defensively most of the time, only attacking when it is strategically pertinent to do so.
These kind of incidents are rare at worst, and do not reflect on the other soldiers stationed in Iraq.
All you need to do is ask yourself this question, if events were reversed, and Iraq had invaded the USA, would they not burn your bibles, and desecrate the artifcats of your religion?
Also,<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This is sick, vile and disgusting to learn that the people who "protect us" think that they have the right to humiliate us in any way possible because they "Are the government and they can do w/e they want."<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> This has got to be one of the most misinformed quotes I have ever seen. No soldiers stationed in Iraq are representatives of the government, they are not in power there, and they will never be. That is what Iraq's own government is there for. The soldiers are called upon for protection of the major people in the Iraq government.
They protect Iraqis from other Iraqis
*edit*
Personally, I think that the soldiers should just withdraw altogether, quarantine the whole country, and let it tear itself apart.
Personally, I think that the soldiers should just withdraw altogether, quarantine the whole country, and let it tear itself apart. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If only they would... if only they would... :-)
Personally, I think that the soldiers should just withdraw altogether, quarantine the whole country, and let it tear itself apart. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If only they would... if only they would... :-) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But I guess they can't since <span style='color:red'>*Baleeted*</span>
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->For myself, the american soldiers in Iraq who have done this should be burned, burried alive, and have their throats cut to their stomachs. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sometimes I feel like the extremists should be tortured for hours for any bit of information that could save US and Iraqi Police Force lives, then killed on the spot and buried in pig-skin on live TV for everybody to see.
That might satisfy my anger. A little. But it doesn't do much else, and doesn't solve much in the long run. It's a shame that both sides resort to extremes like we see in the news, especially since a great deal of it serves no purpose other than to be hateful.... I like to think we should take the moral highground, but it just doesn't happen that way sometimes.
<!--QuoteBegin-Article+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Article)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Seems Newsweek got the story wrong, now hundreds have been affected by their neglegable reporting.
Newsweek may have erred in Qur'an article: report
CTV.ca News Staff
Newsweek magazine said it may have been mistaken in an article that alleged U.S. interrogators flushed the Qur'an down the toilet.
Protests erupted Tuesday after the magazine reported in a recent edition that investigators at the U.S. Navy base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, placed the Muslim holy book in washrooms to prompt detainees to talk.
The May 9 report quoted unnamed sources as saying that the interrogators had "in at least one case, flushed a holy book down the toilet."
Newsweek Editor Mark Whitaker apologized to victims of the violence triggered by the allegations of desecration.
"We regret that we got any part of our story wrong, and extend our sympathies to victims of the violence and to the U.S. soldiers caught in its midst," Whitaker wrote in the magazine's latest issue, set to appear on U.S. newsstands Monday, Reuters reported Sunday.
The article sparked demonstrations across the Muslim world.
In Afghanistan, 15 were killed and more than 100 wounded in anti-U.S. protests that erupted across the country.
The Arab League, based in Cairo, Egypt, also issued a statement saying Washington should apologize to Muslims if the allegations were correct.
Meanwhile, U.S. ally andýPakistan President Gen. Pervez Musharraf called for an investigation on the report.
In Yemen on Saturday, thousands of university students hit the streets in a demonstration, chanting "Death to America!"
Newsweek reported that a Pentagon spokesman told the publication late last week that the claims were wrong and that the military found no evidence to support allegations of desecration.
Many of the 520 inmates at Guantanamo Bay are said to be Muslims arrested during the American.-led war on terror.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-News Week+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (News Week)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Newsweek magazine has retracted an article alleging abuse of the Quran at the Guantanamo Bay detention facility which sparked deadly anti-US protests in Afghanistan and other Islamic countries.
"Based on what we know now, we are retracting our original story that an internal military investigation had uncovered Quran abuse at Guantanamo Bay," the magazine said yesterday in a one-sentence statement from editor Mark Whitaker. The retraction came a day after Newsweek acknowledged parts of the article, which appeared in the May 9 edition, may not be accurate, and followed harsh criticism of the newsweekly by US officials. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice had described the Newsweek report as "appalling" and said it had created a "very major problem" for Washington in the Muslim world. The White House had said a Newsweek apology on Sunday did not go far enough. "There is a certain journalistic standard that should be met, and in this case it was not met," said White House spokesman Scott McClellan. "The report was not accurate, and it was based on a single anonymous source who cannot personally substantiate the report." State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said "it's appalling, really, that an article that was unfounded to begin with has caused so much harm, including loss of life." Newsweek quoted an unidentified US official as saying that a probe into allegations of prisoner abuse contained in FBI e-mails found that Guantanamo interrogators had thrown a Koran into a toilet to rattle Muslim prisoners.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Guess it didn't happen...
I'm sorry cookie, but you are stepping a bit over the line there.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In Afghanistan, 15 were killed and more than 100 wounded in anti-U.S. protests that erupted across the country.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<i>Someone has gone way too #$^%$ far.</i> People should be answering to crimes either way, in my opinion. There is just NO excuse if you consider that outcome.
I'm sorry cookie, but you are stepping a bit over the line there. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
FYI
on the subject of this whole newsweek incident.
Yes, they have admitted they may be wrong, note the may, but this is only because their source backed down (sloppy 'journalism' aside, their source and the whitehouse offical who didnt question the quran statement share some blame here).
Newsweek was not the first to report the desecration of the Qu'ran, I think it had been reported as far back as 2004 (google should sort you, im too lazy).
also.
The Riots were nothing to do with the article, and were in fact
<a href='http://usinfo.state.gov/is/Archive/2005/May/13-299433.html' target='_blank'>Completely Unrelated</a>.
Which is interesting in and of itself, since all of the articles about it have been quoting NewsWeek alone, no one else.
Of course it will be a few days before one side or the other actually comes out as the truth.
*edit* In defense of the people on fallout.net, they probably are far too young to understand the implications that would result from someone of one said religion to deface/devalue anothers religious texts.
No, they're acutually all a bunch of people who don't have any lives and no knowledge =]
No, they're acutually all a bunch of people who don't have any lives and no knowledge =] <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It’s a sad state of affairs when in this day and age people allow religion to warp their minds so severely.
It's a book, if you want to believe its "special" that’s fine. However it's still nothing more then text on paper no more special then the Bible, the Torah, or a Tom Clancy novel.
The Middle East well never have peace until its people learn to rationalize their over-zealous religious beliefs.
Also the entire topic of this discussion is pointless considering the action is question never occurred.
GG Newsweek jumping the gun, that’s why I read TIME. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Completely Unrelated. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They use phrases like "not necessarily" and "related <i>more</i> to", makes for a pretty wishy-washy report of news. And you look at Cyndane's list of articles which say just the opposite. Looking at the situation for what we know for sure:
1) There's a controversy and a lot of outrage over whether or not a Koran was flushed
2) Riots broke out soon after the controversy came about, killing several
That's what speaks to me about the whole situation. I can't prove they're related obviously, but looking at that it sure seems that way.
No, they're acutually all a bunch of people who don't have any lives and no knowledge =] <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You also seem to fall into this category calling for the deaths of people over a book, that may or not may be "holy".
Think about it...
Completely Unrelated. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They use phrases like "not necessarily" and "related <i>more</i> to", makes for a pretty wishy-washy report of news. And you look at Cyndane's list of articles which say just the opposite. Looking at the situation for what we know for sure:
1) There's a controversy and a lot of outrage over whether or not a Koran was flushed
2) Riots broke out soon after the controversy came about, killing several
That's what speaks to me about the whole situation. I can't prove they're related obviously, but looking at that it sure seems that way. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
were talking about a statement from The chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs, semantics aside, I put my faith there rather then a list of internet message boards.
"However, Myers said an after-action report provided by U.S. Army Lieutenant General Karl Eikenberry, commander of the Combined Forces in Afghanistan, indicated that the political violence was not, in fact, connected to the magazine report."
seems pretty clear to me.
I have heard that the riots there were brewing for quite a time, although I cant back that up with quite such a solid quote as my main point.
The quran was not intentionally desecrated by US soldiers... They have very strict orders on how to treat it. In fact - they report all incidents - and most accounts of "descecration" are the detainees doing it to the qurans provided to them... not the soldiers. The story about the toilet flushing - FALSE.
The fact of the matter is - quran descecration is a very easy rally cry for the detainees / muslims in general. It is an excuse for terrorist behavior.
Another little known fact... Saddam had a quran written for him - in human blood. Talk about descecration - according to the muslims - human blood is unclean.
As for treatment of the Bible - while not especially kind to the word of God - most Christians are able to distinguish between the medium (paper) and the contents. We view the words as holy - not the book itself. The comparison can be made - but the behavioral difference is extreem.
Newsweek stepped into this one big time. Perhaps if they didn't have their ear to the rear of the giant liberal propaganda machine, they coulda gotten some facts straight.
For the record - I think this is the first time Cyndane and I have ever agreed <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Please... while you might not be a deeply spiritual man, at least accept that there are some who can make the distinction between holy books and hackneyed novels.
iirc the Quran represents much more to Muslims then the Bible does to Christians, and while you may not think so yourself, you would be ignorant to ignore this.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also the entire topic of this discussion is pointless considering the action is question never occurred.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
While no one can really expect to prove this either way, I will refer you to <a href='http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/19/icrc.quran/' target='_blank'>The Red Cross</a> reports that showed, as far back as 2002, that there were serious concerns about independently corroborated reports of Quran desecration.
And sadly, it seems only too plausible that soldiers at Guantanamo wouldn't hesistate to desecrate a few sheets of 'not very special paper' when we know what kind of other techniques are employed there
(for those not in the know, read "strapping people to boards and holding them underwater until they think they will die", amongst others).
I agree they were foolish to print a story based on a single source.
But were you not aware that the source was an anonymous US Government Official.
The 'info' came from within the administration, and Newsweek, fools that they were lapped it up without corroborating it only to have the same mysterious source back away once the story broke.
Now, I dont want to break out my tin foil hat quite yet, but to me, that stinks of a set-up.. and the way its turned out, it seems like another quiet victory for the powers that be.
The whole thing has blown up into a glorious smoke screen where not only has Newsweek completely sullied its name, but the level of misinformation and general confusion around the whole issue serves to blur the lines of what actually happens at Guantanamo, and also distract from other issues.
A: Dont they torture people at Guantanamo...
B: No, that story was a fake!!!1
Lets see, that's excuse number 639...
(for those not in the know, read "strapping people to boards and holding them underwater until they think they will die", amongst others).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
US marines trained for killing, indoctrinated with the idea that they are an elite force, and given a steady diet of news about the deaths of other US soldiers should not be jailers, but that's another discussion thread.
In response to the actual topic....
There are well over 100,000 US soldiers in the middle east right now. There are many, many more at Guantanamo. The fact that a handful out of that many people are destroying symbols Muslims hold dear and they don't shouldn't be shocking. The fact that they treat prisoners--who are linked to people who would gladly kill them--without respect shouldn't be shocking. Muslims in the US should fully understand from experiences with the public how wrong it can be to label a group of people based on the actions of a few members. There are plenty of idiots (and uncaught felons, and any other characteristic you choose) in almost any group that size. There will also be many people above reproach who don't deserve to be lumped in with a few jackasses who make the news.
The commander who told his unit to run a US flag up the pedastal in Baghdad after Saddam's statue toppled is a prime example of someone who isn't able to properly examine his place in the world, his surroundings, or the consequences of his actions. Statistically speaking, it is inevitable that this sort of stupidity will exist in a group the size of the US military--when examples of it are brought forth treating it with anything other than resignation is counterproductive.
Individual instances of abuse should be punished appropriately, but calling for a holy war makes as much sense as <a href='http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/30/AR2005053000396.html' target='_blank'>burning down a KFC</a> and killing 6 muslims inside in response to a mosque suicide bombing. See what happens when a news report is used to generalize a group?
To think, Pepe and I can agree... the end is coming I tell you.
Please... while you might not be a deeply spiritual man, at least accept that there are some who can make the distinction between holy books and hackneyed novels.
iirc the Quran represents much more to Muslims then the Bible does to Christians, and while you may not think so yourself, you would be ignorant to ignore this.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What exactly makes the book "holy"?
It's nothing but a loose outline of a single time period in history and a collection of suggestions on how to live your life.
I could say the same about "Chicken Soup for the Historians Soul".
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->While no one can really expect to prove this either way, I will refer you to <a href='http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/19/icrc.quran/' target='_blank'>The Red Cross</a> reports that showed, as far back as 2002, that there were serious concerns about independently corroborated reports of Quran desecration.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Does ripping up a prisoners "special" book count as a violation of any treaties that the US is currently entangled in?
Or dose it just fall under the hypersoftandgushyultrahappyfeelgood liberal view of inhuman treatment and a violation of a man’s God given right not to hear the sound of paper being torn in prison?
dont be obtuse.. If you cant understand why I would refer to the Qu'ran as a Holy book then you need to expand your mind a little.
And secondly, what point are you trying to make with the treaties remark?
Guantanamo is located outside of US soil for the explicit reason of happily avoiding any international human rights treaties, so since the US doesnt give two ****s about what international law says, it hardly matters wether or not its forbidden anywhere.
I can appreaciate your point though, and your right, on the grand scale of things which occur at Guantanamo, (from our non muslim perspective) Qu'ran Desecration is far from the worst.
dont be obtuse.. If you cant understand why I would refer to the Qu'ran as a Holy book then you need to expand your mind a little.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh I understand perfectly why the Koran is a holy book for some. The point that I wanted to convey is that anyone who doesn’t share those particular beliefs really shouldn't, and for the most part don't, care.
Unless you can give me a reason for which I, specifically, should regard the Koran more highly then others texts...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And secondly, what point are you trying to make with the treaties remark?
Guantanamo is located outside of US soil for the explicit reason of happily avoiding any international human rights treaties, so since the US doesnt give two ****s about what international law says, it hardly matters wether or not its forbidden anywhere.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I thought my point was fairly straight foreword. Does the "desecration" of the Koran or any other book for that matter, in the presence of prisoners, constitute as a violation of any treaties that the US is currently entangled in?
As far as international law goes, let’s not forget that with the power come the perks. Let’s also not pretend the US is the only country that has violated international law.
It would be interesting to see how long these laws lasted if the US pulled its support from the UN.
What a twisted sence of morality we have, when flushing a book down the toilet is more evil (or even on par with) blowing yourself up on a crowded bus.
The Qu'ran is considered holy because it was brought down to Muhammad (peace be upon him) to share that knowledge with every other muslim in the world. The Qu'ran came from God's words. Angels wrote every word that God said into that book.
There are a lot of people who think that is an untrue fact that the Soldiers did this. And I assure you, they really did this. But who ever doesn't believe that, it's fine with me.
I just hate the fact that people are trying to cover it up. Stop trying to bull **** and just come out with the damn truth! If you want to ruin the whole world by telling that Muslims are bad and all that, why do it? You don't see the Muslim world telling the jews, hindus, christians, bhuddists, etc that they're all **** and stuff.
No, they're acutually all a bunch of people who don't have any lives and no knowledge =] <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It’s a sad state of affairs when in this day and age people allow religion to warp their minds so severely.
It's a book, if you want to believe its "special" that’s fine. However it's still nothing more then text on paper no more special then the Bible, the Torah, or a Tom Clancy novel.
The Middle East well never have peace until its people learn to rationalize their over-zealous religious beliefs. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Jeez, dude, that's like saying people shouldn't get made when people burn the American flag in protest. At the very least, it's an important symbol for them. The fact that they consider it holy...you should have just a tad bit of respect for that, eh?