NS:Source or NS2?
Flayra
Game Director, Unknown Worlds EntertainmentSan Francisco Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 3Super Administrators, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer
Game Director, Unknown Worlds EntertainmentSan Francisco Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 3Super Administrators, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer
<div class="IPBDescription">Which do you want?</div>We could make either game, but what would you rather see? Preservation of the existing game on a new engine, or a new game built off a core of NS?
Assumptions:
- NS:Source would be NS gameplay with Half-life II quality maps, models and visuals
- NS2 would still "feel" like NS, but would have significant changes to gameplay as well as a graphical and audio makeover. Dynamic infestation, flamethrowers and Oni smashing through structures realistically are typical features that we could implement for NS2 (we are not commiting or announcing anything like this though, we're just talking).
- Both games would take about the same amount of time to make
- If we made NS2, we would likely not go back and remake NS:S
Assumptions:
- NS:Source would be NS gameplay with Half-life II quality maps, models and visuals
- NS2 would still "feel" like NS, but would have significant changes to gameplay as well as a graphical and audio makeover. Dynamic infestation, flamethrowers and Oni smashing through structures realistically are typical features that we could implement for NS2 (we are not commiting or announcing anything like this though, we're just talking).
- Both games would take about the same amount of time to make
- If we made NS2, we would likely not go back and remake NS:S
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
A rose by any other name, and all that. Don't give me what I've already got. Impress me like you did four years ago with something new.
I would love to see a singleplayer NS game, or NS2 for that matter. Although, I feel if you went all that length to make a strictly singeplayer game, it should have a solid multiplayer component as well. If we have more information on what this title would actually be, it would be easier to decide.
Would NS2 get back to the atmospheric roots of NS, rather than its current incarnation (although I understand a lot of this is due to the current limitations of the goldsrc engine). If it was a decision between NS:S being pretty much the same as NS now outside of graphics\sound, and NS2 which featured a much more storied singleplayer and multiplayer component, I would pick NS2. But I just don't know enough about the latter to make a decision on that title.
In my eyes it would be best to make a really nice singeplayer game, with a very NS multiplayer component similar to the one we play now, then you have the best of both worlds.
1) I don't think you can make significant changes to NS gameplay while still making it feel like NS, depending on what you mean by significant.
2) I think you're underestimating the amount of time it would take to balance the game when you make significant changes to NS gameplay.
As much as I would like to see NS2 at some point, I'd rather have a Source port in my hands sooner rather than an NS2 later. And as previously stated, I don't think you can do them both in the same time allotment.
- Both games would take about the same amount of time to make
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If this is the case, definitely NS2... the main reason I'd settle for NS:S would be to get my hands on it sooner.
What are the significant changes that you are thinking of making in NS2? It's tough to decide on which one we would like unless we know what those changes might be.
Also, since you think both games will take the same amount of time, about how much time will that be?
Anyway, voted source because it seems the best course of action from my pov.
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Is that amount of time infinite? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> Sorry, couldnt help it!
The revision to the poll details only further supports my NS2 vote. I'm eager to see UWE's next "swipe" at this franchise.
I prefer an updated version of current NS, with better graphics/sound and some puntual new content (new weapons/lifeforms/extructures ).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
FWIW, that's not one of the options we're being asked to choose. I realize you know that, but I'd hate for someone skimming the thread to get confused about what it is we're debating in this thread (specifically).
NS2 is the only option that's been presented with significantly new content/design.
Honestly; we dont need an NSS if NS2 is going to come out at or around the same time that NSS would have.
People will be afraid of NS2, for certain. You will have to comfort the community with previews of coming attractions. NS:S is the easy way out, and would surely result in an excellent game but I expect no less than an outstanding achievement, and as such it seems necessary to go beyond the bounds of what we've experienced before.
I know NS like the inside of my pocket. What I want above all in a Source port is an embellished ambience - more complex level design and such. These factors are external to the gameplay, and to me it would seem far more satisfying to see them incorporated but in conjunction with a new gaming experience.
I would love to see UWE build the sort of legacy Blizzard or other game companies have, and that begins with an exceptional series. To me the advantages of NS2 weigh in on your career as much as they do on the gaming community. A new game is a a way to express your talent and creativity and that's something any designer should seek.
If you were able to liscense the source engine (or make NS2 as a game on the source engine then sell it on steam), would it even be possible in that engine to easily make these new (hypothetical) designs? Or would a custom engine from a different company, or built from scratch be used?
I think a large number of us would all love to see things like dynamic infestation\flamethrowers and all that type of stuff over a direct port of current gameplay. I believe in the overall "story" of NS should take its next step with NS2 over source to really flesh out the world better. If you bring NS over to the source engine as is now, including the obvious graphical enhancements, is it really advancing the story of NS and the kind of gameplay we would all really like to see?
I'd change my vote for NS2 since I think it would continue the story of what NS is supposed to be, rather than a rehash with nice graphics on the new engine. Especially considering now this project will probably take a number of years to complete either way.
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The best way to have a great series is to push forward with new ideas and a lot of the stuff NS really should have. Although I would love to see NS:S and be able to play it, I think the overall goal should incorporate a lot of the great ideas you have in current NS, and take them to the next level in a world designed FOR NS, rather than around the constraints of an aging engine.
FWIW, that's not one of the options we're being asked to choose. I realize you know that, but I'd hate for someone skimming the thread to get confused about what it is we're debating in this thread (specifically).
NS2 is the only option that's been presented with significantly new content/design.
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Here we are debating if people prefer NSS or NS2. I obviously mean that I prefer NSS rather than NS2 . When I say "puntual new content", I mean minor changes, like a new weapon or something like that, nothing really important. Sorry if you get confused by my post <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> .
Right. I don't want "First Contact" twice, you know? Bring on the war. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
(oh, and the Speex codec... bring on the Speex codec)
(oh, and the Speex codec... bring on the Speex codec)
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No joke... if source cant deliver in this department, look elsewhere.
Here we are debating if people prefer NSS or NS2. I obviously mean that I prefer NSS rather than NS2 . When I say "puntual new content", I mean minor changes, like a new weapon or something like that, nothing really important. Sorry if you get confused by my post <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> .
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Very good on the clarification, though I disagree with your classification of a "new weapon" as "minor changes".
And that's a perfect example of what I fear with NS:S. The potential for <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scope_creep" target="_blank">scope creep</a> seems so real. I'd rather UWE just hunker down, design NS2 solidly, and then take what time they need to create it, again solidly.
Right. I don't want "First Contact" twice, you know? Bring on the war. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
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QFT.
Very good on the clarification, though I disagree with your classification of a "new weapon" as "minor changes".
And that's a perfect example of what I fear with NS:S. The potential for <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scope_creep" target="_blank">scope creep</a> seems so real. I'd rather UWE just hunker down, design NS2 solidly, and then take what time they need to create it, again solidly.
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That's why I'm thinking too. Just reading through all the suggestions in the NS:S I&S forum, leads me to believe people really want something like NS2, rather than something very similar to current NS on the source engine. If the future project was indeed NS:S as described here, feature creep would be inevitable and costly.
I do believe people want something new, but want a new NS so badly, even a relatively direct port would be sufficient, even if it means cutting out all these new designs and ideas to take the game beyond what we currently play.
Hah. Scope Creep is exactly part of what I'm worried about with NS2. Honestly, the way Flayra is describing it, NS:S would have rigidly defined specs, while NS2 is far more nebulous, and currently just consists of stuff people have been talking about for years. (See first post, re: possible changes)
There's an argument that says NS2 is less known. NS:S is something everyone is "more comfortable" with. That's to be expected, and it's a major motivator for what I'm guessing is a significant amount of the NS:S votes (the other major motivator being impatience, however well justified).
That same comfort level makes scope creep a bigger threat to NS:S than NS2, I think. Folks don't mind one bit telling "the devs" what to do with NS:S, and I think we'd see fewer (not zero) armchair quarterbacks when it comes to NS2's featureset design.
You raise a valid point Aeroripper. I don't understand why this is a 'one or the other' choice, why can't we have NS2 on source (ns:s with new/modified gameplay and content as Flayra stated for NS2).
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The only thing I can think of is if it would be entirely to hard technically to get some of these new ideas into an existing engine. Although, look at what was done with NS on the HL engine? Is source the best engine to make NS2, even with its coming enhancements?
I replied, saying, "In case you hadn't noticed, NS does with 'old' engines what some games never do with 'new' ones." <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
We laughed.
Although I don't think source will look "old" in a few years, seeing as how its continously being upgraded with new technologies.