NS2 because it feels like thats what the community needs. I mean you've already said you would still work of the original ns, so a direct port might just divide the community, while some new gameplay is probably what most people want and while it would be refreshing to see the original on source in the long run it will just be the same thing as the original just better graphics and physics and for that reason I wish they had made a cs2 and not just a direct port.
<!--quoteo(post=1568146:date=Sep 28 2006, 12:40 AM:name=Laggasaurus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Laggasaurus @ Sep 28 2006, 12:40 AM) [snapback]1568146[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> NS2 because i don't like the source engine. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Writing our own engine would likely be out of scope for us for NS2. Source would probably be our best option. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't have a problem with the Source engine personally (in fact I'd prefer to create art for it over any other FPS engine I've seen at the moment, for several reasons), and I'm sure any problems you have with it can be fixed far faster than a new engine can be written.
If they both take the same time, NS2 would be the best idea. Sure, some will leave, but some will come, and those who have been here through the many changes 2.0 and 3.0 bought will probably stay. If the money is a problem though, charging 10-20 dollars for NS:S, a pretty much straight port with better graphics and maybe a couple of new maps, then making the new creation would be the best idea. I voted NS2 though, and I can't wait for a new version of anything with NS in the title, it's great <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1568098:date=Sep 27 2006, 02:46 AM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Flayra @ Sep 27 2006, 02:46 AM) [snapback]1568098[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Just as clarification:
- <b>Writing our own engine would likely be out of scope for us for NS2. Source would probably be our best option.</b> - Either way, the game would be for sale over Steam and either way it won't require any other software (Half-life 1 or 2); it will be a standalone game, not a mod. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that was my first thought when i read the poll, and i immediately voted for NS:S
well, im no dev and all, but i doubt that NS2, completely new developed, with tools, editors and everything you need is made in the same timeframe than NS:S ----------------------------------------------------------- if you intent to go for NS2 on the source engine, i would much more like to see NS2 i can more easily see how the project can be finished in a reasonable amount of time there
When i first read the thread title my mind immediately jumped to voting for NS:S, im glad i didn't. The primary reason i was going to vote for NS:S was because i thought it would be quicker than NS2 and would have some source style features (e.g. onos crashing through structures). Since these points are nulled as they would/should be the focus of NS2 i must vote for NS2.
At the end of the day NS2 would breathe some fresh life into NS. It could end up being NS:S with few extra features (as mentioned for NS2) or it could be more. People would probably end up getting broed with NS:S far quicker than NS2 as it would be a simple rehash of an existing game. Where as NS2 should have far more longevity. Plus once NS2 is made you would always have the option of porting NS to NS:S (granted would also ahve option of creating NS2 if you did NS:S first)
I do however think that time is the one thing against NS atm, it has sort of been left behind after the distrastrous hack on the website. The player base has fallen dramatically and a lot of people are now more interested into source and what it allows e.g. better graphics, physics etc. With newer games on the horizon like UT2007 due out soon i really feel that a new game for NS on the source engine is a must but, it must also be out sooner rather than later. When the site went 'live' i remember talking to someone in irc about the announcement: <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> A short time after we make the site public, we plan on announcing the first juicy details of the next NS game, which will use the Half-life II engine and will be released for sale on Steam <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> which we both agreed was welcoming news as NS needs a real fresh breath of air and whats more it needs it yesterday. As long as NS2 would not take a lot longer to complete that NS:S then defiantely go for NS2. If people want to play NS:S then they have something close in NS with which still to play and NS2 would also create a enw source based game which should hopefully allow the 2 main games released by UWE (NS and NS2) to appeal to the broadest community possible. Where as NS and NS:S would probably be more confining in your target audience.
p.s. apologies for any typos (im well known for them <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" /> )
I would say NS:2 would be get older players to stay and play it, because of the new features. But NS:S would be much better for competitive play, which hopefully will be a part of Flayra's agenda. I don't know what a game creator gets when his game is used at the CPL and other leagues, but I do know it would make the game very popular. (It would also be covered on many more gaming websites etc. Just having NS:S even MENTIONED at the CPL website would be extremely good for popularity.)
Ah, I accidentally voted for NS:Source without reading the description. Any way to change my vote? <div align="left">I really would prefer to have NS2. Before I read your description, I was thinking of the original concept of NS2, as "NS was the encounter, NS2 is the war" or something. A large scale battlefield-type game wouldn't really fit the mood of NS, since NS has a distinct feel, different from other games. Also, battlefield-type games are a dime a dozen now.
Obviously, you intend to charge for the next installment of NS, and I think it would be unfair or detrimental to charge for the same game with a graphical upgrade. People already have the hl mod for free, and I don't think many are willing to pay for it after the expectation has been established that the mod is free. (I personally wouldn't... actually i probably would anyway, but thats just because I'm a huge fan of the game, but I would feel kinda cheated)
</div>I would definitely like to see new content. The only thing that has kept me interested in NS since the beginning is the fundamental changes in gameplay that keep showing up. I still remember relearning the game around ver 2 and again around 3. The fact that NS is constantly changing and the developers are actually willing to make changes to the core is the only reason that NS still has such a great community. I don't wan't NS to retread old ground like DoD and CS as they were ported to Source. (plus I really want babblers)
By "significant changes" I'm interpreting that as 'rebuilding NS from the ground up and fixing the major gameplay issues at its core'. This sort of remake has more scope to make bolder decisions in the right direction without being tied down to what came before. You should take the best bits from NS and incorporate them into a new game along the same lines, not let NS's underlying flaws get carried across into the next generation UWE title.
I don't mind if the game is gonna be called NS source or NS2. I think what we all want here is "a new NS game" which expand the original NS universe but always maintaining the classic NS feeling. You don't need to rebuild nothing from the ground, you only need to improve what you have and expand it. That's all.
NS:Source or NS2? It would be interesting to know what percentage of people out there don't have a pc capable of playing any source games . I'm thinking over 50% don't get enough fps to enjoy any source mod let alone be completive. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nerd-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::nerdy::" border="0" alt="nerd-fix.gif" /> I vote more fps any day <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1568198:date=Sep 27 2006, 09:30 PM:name=WaterBoy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(WaterBoy @ Sep 27 2006, 09:30 PM) [snapback]1568198[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Im suprised that Flayra is even posting a poll like this... ...this indicates that there hardly in the design phase of the game. Shouldnt have already made this decision several months ago? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unfortuantely i think many others including myself were udner the same impression, However, i think the same thing can be said over the website being down for a year.
Alcapwn"War is the science of destruction" - John AbbotJoin Date: 2003-06-21Member: 17590Members
<!--quoteo(post=1568204:date=Sep 27 2006, 04:40 PM:name=Bry)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bry @ Sep 27 2006, 04:40 PM) [snapback]1568204[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Unfortuantely i think many others including myself were udner the same impression, However, i think the same thing can be said over the website being down for a year. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, you take the words right out of my mouth. I feel bassically the same way... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
I say NS2. I fear that having a direct port of NS to source would split the community into those who play on the source or the orginal servers, Since in theory a direct port would be only graphic changes. We would have those who can't run source or wont play source in one group, and those who love source and play only source in the other, with very few crossovers. And when it comes down to paying for the game, I would much rather buy a new game instead of a rehashed old game.
As for the stage of development the game is currently in. While I can not know for sure, I de believe there is enough in common between both NS:S and NS2 that there could be a decent amount done before the would have to pick the direction to go with it
Natural Selection Two. Easily. I've played NS on and off for a few years now. I love it to death, but everything gets old after a while.
I think, for you Flayra, that NS2 will have a much more forgiving audience than making NS:S. In all likelyhood, NS:S would not feel exactly the same for everyone who plays it, and some would take objection to that. Making a separate new game sidesteps some of those issues.
I know I personally would have more fun designing a new system, than re-creating an old one verbatim. Though, I might have even more fun re-building an old system without all the flaws and intrinsic design errors.
For example, you could revamp the alien/marine avatar movement system, so that the personal skill progression is much more intuitive. Ideally more depth would also be present, and other systems within NSclassic could also be modified or re-built. If you made these changes with NS:S, you'd have a riot on your hands. But with NS2, I think to a certain extent these changes would be expected.
But really, when it comes down to it, it works like this. I play NS, on the ancient half-life engine. I <b>really</b> don't care about graphics. I won't really care about graphics on NS:S. NS2, I will care about new gameplay.
edit: as a side note, for community reasons, I do not ever want to see both NS:S and NS2 on the same engine. If you have to make NS:S, then make NS2 on the half-life three engine. Putting both NS:S and NS2 on the same engine is a recipe for a split community of disaster and guaranteed at least one of the two projects ending up a waste of time and money.
Absolutely don't waste your time doing a straight port of NS to Source. That's just not worth the time and effort, especially if you think it'll take just as long as a brand new game. When you talked about NS:S I didn't know you meant it so literally. If you're going to go to all the trouble of making a Source version of NS, whether or not you call it a sequel, it should use the engine to its fullest and stand out in its own right.
Given the way you phrased the poll, it's NS2 for me, no question. That's assuming that NS2 will be the same basic concept as NS, i.e. fighting alien infestation on spaceships or planetary outposts. I'm not at all interested in the big battlefield-type game that some people have envisioned.
I think the best way to re-introduce Natural Selection in general is making NS2. It will be fresh for both the fans and future fans, and I think that would be the way to go.
If NS:S and NS2 would take the same time to make, then I would think that NS2 is going to be unbalanced or have stuff cut. NS has a lot of gameplay(people and time) behind it. Remaking it into source would allow them to keep most balance the way it is, just have to code up the game in source, them some testing to find out if any new balance problems arise. Where as NS2 would be competely new, needing coding, testing, and other things.
I don't see how the timeframes to make these could be remotely close, unless they are adding Nexus to NS:S (and not to NS2), then I could see it being the same timeframe.
Alcapwn"War is the science of destruction" - John AbbotJoin Date: 2003-06-21Member: 17590Members
<!--quoteo(post=1568213:date=Sep 27 2006, 05:59 PM:name=Eternaly_Lost)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Eternaly_Lost @ Sep 27 2006, 05:59 PM) [snapback]1568213[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I don't see how the timeframes to make these could be remotely close, unless they are adding Nexus to NS:S (and not to NS2), then I could see it being the same timeframe. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I doubt Nexus/BUS is even still in the plans for any future version of NS...
I think NS2 is the best option. Even if it were to take longer, it would be well worth it in the log run to have extra features that can make a great game an amazing game.
Also, I think a Natural Selection 2 title would be more attractive than just NS: Source. To me taht would be the same as CS:S and DOD:S, the main differences in the ports for those games is upgraded graphics and physics system, besides that, both games still have the same features taht were in the original... and to be honest neither are worth the $20 that it is to buy it on top of having to buy a new graphics card to play competitively...
Just take a look at the how the other remakes did.
DOD:S CS:S and soon to be TFC:2/S
None were as popular as the original and seeing how NS was never that big I dont think it would to wise of a thing to do. Everyone will play it but only for a short period of time. It will be a swift death unlike the original.
I think it'd be best to keep it in the NS universe .. but perhaps add some new things. New evolutions the alines learned, new technoligy the marines have learned.
Not to mention .. flame throwers. One of my favorite weapons is already in the game .. the shotgun. Just gotta add the thrower and Im a happy camper!
I think it'd be best to keep it in the NS universe .. but perhaps add some new things. New evolutions the alines learned, new technoligy the marines have learned.
Not to mention .. flame throwers. One of my favorite weapons is already in the game .. the shotgun. Just gotta add the thrower and Im a happy camper! There is no TFC:2/S.
There is in fact TF2 coming out. And the Fortress Forever mod .. which I guess is more like a TFC:2/S. But Valve is not making it.
TF2 != TFC:2/S.
Pet peve. Goes back since Half Life was even released. I care not to go into it further, as it was not my intention coming here. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
NS2 because i don't like the source engine.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Writing our own engine would likely be out of scope for us for NS2. Source would probably be our best option.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't have a problem with the Source engine personally (in fact I'd prefer to create art for it over any other FPS engine I've seen at the moment, for several reasons), and I'm sure any problems you have with it can be fixed far faster than a new engine can be written.
I'd go with NS2 if it's getting an overhaul of the audio/visual. Although if it adversly affected online play, I would be highly against it.
Just as clarification:
- <b>Writing our own engine would likely be out of scope for us for NS2. Source would probably be our best option.</b>
- Either way, the game would be for sale over Steam and either way it won't require any other software (Half-life 1 or 2); it will be a standalone game, not a mod.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that was my first thought when i read the poll, and i immediately voted for NS:S
well, im no dev and all, but i doubt that NS2, completely new developed, with tools, editors and everything you need is made in the same timeframe than NS:S
-----------------------------------------------------------
if you intent to go for NS2 on the source engine, i would much more like to see NS2
i can more easily see how the project can be finished in a reasonable amount of time there
At the end of the day NS2 would breathe some fresh life into NS. It could end up being NS:S with few extra features (as mentioned for NS2) or it could be more.
People would probably end up getting broed with NS:S far quicker than NS2 as it would be a simple rehash of an existing game. Where as NS2 should have far more longevity. Plus once NS2 is made you would always have the option of porting NS to NS:S (granted would also ahve option of creating NS2 if you did NS:S first)
I do however think that time is the one thing against NS atm, it has sort of been left behind after the distrastrous hack on the website. The player base has fallen dramatically and a lot of people are now more interested into source and what it allows e.g. better graphics, physics etc. With newer games on the horizon like UT2007 due out soon i really feel that a new game for NS on the source engine is a must but, it must also be out sooner rather than later. When the site went 'live' i remember talking to someone in irc about the announcement:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
A short time after we make the site public, we plan on announcing the first juicy details of the next NS game, which will use the Half-life II engine and will be released for sale on Steam
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
which we both agreed was welcoming news as NS needs a real fresh breath of air and whats more it needs it yesterday. As long as NS2 would not take a lot longer to complete that NS:S then defiantely go for NS2. If people want to play NS:S then they have something close in NS with which still to play and NS2 would also create a enw source based game which should hopefully allow the 2 main games released by UWE (NS and NS2) to appeal to the broadest community possible. Where as NS and NS:S would probably be more confining in your target audience.
p.s. apologies for any typos (im well known for them <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" /> )
<div align="left">I really would prefer to have NS2. Before I read your description, I was thinking of the original concept of NS2, as "NS was the encounter, NS2 is the war" or something. A large scale battlefield-type game wouldn't really fit the mood of NS, since NS has a distinct feel, different from other games. Also, battlefield-type games are a dime a dozen now.
Obviously, you intend to charge for the next installment of NS, and I think it would be unfair or detrimental to charge for the same game with a graphical upgrade. People already have the hl mod for free, and I don't think many are willing to pay for it after the expectation has been established that the mod is free. (I personally wouldn't... actually i probably would anyway, but thats just because I'm a huge fan of the game, but I would feel kinda cheated)
</div>I would definitely like to see new content. The only thing that has kept me interested in NS since the beginning is the fundamental changes in gameplay that keep showing up. I still remember relearning the game around ver 2 and again around 3. The fact that NS is constantly changing and the developers are actually willing to make changes to the core is the only reason that NS still has such a great community. I don't wan't NS to retread old ground like DoD and CS as they were ported to Source. (plus I really want babblers)
By "significant changes" I'm interpreting that as 'rebuilding NS from the ground up and fixing the major gameplay issues at its core'. This sort of remake has more scope to make bolder decisions in the right direction without being tied down to what came before. You should take the best bits from NS and incorporate them into a new game along the same lines, not let NS's underlying flaws get carried across into the next generation UWE title.
...this indicates that there hardly in the design phase of the game. Shouldnt have already made this decision several months ago?
Im suprised that Flayra is even posting a poll like this...
...this indicates that there hardly in the design phase of the game. Shouldnt have already made this decision several months ago?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unfortuantely i think many others including myself were udner the same impression, However, i think the same thing can be said over the website being down for a year.
Unfortuantely i think many others including myself were udner the same impression, However, i think the same thing can be said over the website being down for a year.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, you take the words right out of my mouth. I feel bassically the same way... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
As for the stage of development the game is currently in. While I can not know for sure, I de believe there is enough in common between both NS:S and NS2 that there could be a decent amount done before the would have to pick the direction to go with it
I think, for you Flayra, that NS2 will have a much more forgiving audience than making NS:S. In all likelyhood, NS:S would not feel exactly the same for everyone who plays it, and some would take objection to that. Making a separate new game sidesteps some of those issues.
I know I personally would have more fun designing a new system, than re-creating an old one verbatim. Though, I might have even more fun re-building an old system without all the flaws and intrinsic design errors.
For example, you could revamp the alien/marine avatar movement system, so that the personal skill progression is much more intuitive. Ideally more depth would also be present, and other systems within NSclassic could also be modified or re-built. If you made these changes with NS:S, you'd have a riot on your hands. But with NS2, I think to a certain extent these changes would be expected.
But really, when it comes down to it, it works like this. I play NS, on the ancient half-life engine. I <b>really</b> don't care about graphics. I won't really care about graphics on NS:S. NS2, I will care about new gameplay.
edit: as a side note, for community reasons, I do not ever want to see both NS:S and NS2 on the same engine. If you have to make NS:S, then make NS2 on the half-life three engine. Putting both NS:S and NS2 on the same engine is a recipe for a split community of disaster and guaranteed at least one of the two projects ending up a waste of time and money.
Given the way you phrased the poll, it's NS2 for me, no question. That's assuming that NS2 will be the same basic concept as NS, i.e. fighting alien infestation on spaceships or planetary outposts. I'm not at all interested in the big battlefield-type game that some people have envisioned.
Therefore, I voted NS2.
If NS:S and NS2 would take the same time to make, then I would think that NS2 is going to be unbalanced or have stuff cut. NS has a lot of gameplay(people and time) behind it. Remaking it into source would allow them to keep most balance the way it is, just have to code up the game in source, them some testing to find out if any new balance problems arise. Where as NS2 would be competely new, needing coding, testing, and other things.
I don't see how the timeframes to make these could be remotely close, unless they are adding Nexus to NS:S (and not to NS2), then I could see it being the same timeframe.
I don't see how the timeframes to make these could be remotely close, unless they are adding Nexus to NS:S (and not to NS2), then I could see it being the same timeframe.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I doubt Nexus/BUS is even still in the plans for any future version of NS...
Also, I think a Natural Selection 2 title would be more attractive than just NS: Source. To me taht would be the same as CS:S and DOD:S, the main differences in the ports for those games is upgraded graphics and physics system, besides that, both games still have the same features taht were in the original... and to be honest neither are worth the $20 that it is to buy it on top of having to buy a new graphics card to play competitively...
Just take a look at the how the other remakes did.
DOD:S
CS:S
and soon to be
TFC:2/S
None were as popular as the original and seeing how NS was never that big I dont think it would to wise of a thing to do. Everyone will play it but only for a short period of time. It will be a swift death unlike the original.
Originality > Repeats
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NS2.
I think it'd be best to keep it in the NS universe .. but perhaps add some new things. New evolutions the alines learned, new technoligy the marines have learned.
Not to mention .. flame throwers. One of my favorite weapons is already in the game .. the shotgun. Just gotta add the thrower and Im a happy camper!
<!--quoteo(post=1568251:date=Sep 27 2006, 11:24 PM:name=Emanon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Emanon @ Sep 27 2006, 11:24 PM) [snapback]1568251[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
TFC:2/S
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is no TFC:2/S.
There is in fact TF2 coming out. And the Fortress Forever mod .. which I guess is more like a TFC:2/S. But Valve is not making it.
TF2 != TFC:2/S.
Pet peve. Goes back since Half Life was even released. I care not to go into it further, as it was not my intention coming here.
NS2.
I think it'd be best to keep it in the NS universe .. but perhaps add some new things. New evolutions the alines learned, new technoligy the marines have learned.
Not to mention .. flame throwers. One of my favorite weapons is already in the game .. the shotgun. Just gotta add the thrower and Im a happy camper!
There is no TFC:2/S.
There is in fact TF2 coming out. And the Fortress Forever mod .. which I guess is more like a TFC:2/S. But Valve is not making it.
TF2 != TFC:2/S.
Pet peve. Goes back since Half Life was even released. I care not to go into it further, as it was not my intention coming here.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please excuse my spam... but nice avatar = D