<!--QuoteBegin--uranium - 235+Nov 24 2002, 04:11 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (uranium - 235 @ Nov 24 2002, 04:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->A skark can hide under the doorway and the only way he can be hit is if a marine jumps over the edge and shoots on his way down (Jet packs don't give enough OOMPH to get back up).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> skark? never heard that one before
I have also been part of an alien recovery once. We were without a hive TWICE, and it was up to me to sneak into another hive room and rebuild one. It was an awesome experience to see all the aliens start spawning again, and then sinking my teeth into the necks of the surprised marines. We ended up winning that game. =) I would hate it if this kind of recovery were never possible in the future. To me, NS is all about unique gaming experiences. I think the addition of this anti-camping code would really weaken NS. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
A 5-minute delay sounds about right, and the countdown should stop if a hive starts being built, or never start if one is already building.
I don't think a 5 min timer would be too much trouble, most games that i've played on where there is one guy hiding somewhere usually don't take 5 min before they move and get seen by motion sensor or run down by sulks. Plus this would allow for comebacks. I've played a game similar to one said before where one hive was undefended and 2 gorgs got the other hives up at the same time, then origional hive was destroyed and before the marines knew what was happening they got faded. That was a fun game.
Yeah... i've played a similar game. The marines skipped out real early on, avoiding the rush on their base, and set up three infantry portals IN OUR SPAWN AREA.
Frightening, no? Mostly, they could work it because they were in a fairly open area, meaning any skulk was in their LOS for a few seconds, at least... no real easy way to get to them.
Yes, we **obscenity** up, but that's not the point... the point is that we WON that game, despite losing our hive... because the gorge had skittered off to the OTHER END OF THE MAP and set up another hive while the marines were busy killing off the first one and securing it.
When you set it up so that we start taking damage immediately after losing a hive, it just sucks. Give us a few minutes (stopped by another hive beginning construction, of course) before this kicks in, please... the lamer endings will happen almost as fast, but the comebacks will still be possible.
ok i just experienced this no-hive=you-die thing today. and thank god for that one gorge that sat by a defence chamber. heres the situation: playing ns_nancy, we are the aliens, we are doing very good, we have secured all the hives. marines get the Mess Hall and then move into Mother Inteface, they set up siege cannons and tons of turrets and we lose our first, and at the time, only hive. BUT at the same time we lost the hive we had the other 2 hives in production. so our whole team dies except 1 gorge, bless his sole. he stood by a defence tower while the no-hive=you-die thing was killing him. our hives went up, we went fade and lerk and we took back the last hive and finished them with onos'.
moral of the story: either count hives in production as hives or deal with hiding punks.
I was in that game. I was under the impression it was a server option and not part of the patch... Seems wrong that they would add a feature thet removes the possibility of any comeback for the aliens, does it do the same for marines if all spawners are killed or what? If it doesn't thats **obscenity**.
Oh, if you guys have never seen a lamer marine? They hide in the vents via jetpacks.. It takes just as long to kill as a lamer skulk, but I bet that happens so rarely nobody has really ever complained. But that is why I'm for equality of teams.. either get rid of the anti-alien no-hive killer, or make the same thing true for marines.. if you ask me, it's impossible for a marine with no CC to win, less so than if the kharaa have no hive.
don't leave it up to admins to decide. they are notoriously stupid jerks when it comes to settings. simple solution, let the team-mates vote on whether to kick and therefore end the game. they can tell if the last guy is trying to rebuild or be a jerk. there is supposed to be a kick option already and stop saying it is going to be abused. it isn't going to abused. you would have to have so many lamers on a team for it to be abused and then there's no point even playing on that server in the first place then. by the way, in my opinion the commander eject vote thing is completely wrong. it should take the majority of the team to vote eject. it should last an unlimited amount of time and the voter has to deactivate it. and when there is a new commander everyone should be able to vote again. that's how all voting systems should work.
Madjai, read your previous post about the win/lose the game before the game is actually over. I have experienced many times on the LANVancouver servers since they patched to 1.03. However, again I cannot say whether this is some perverse admin feature, or a patch bug. I know that most of my complaints about this game are server based. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Speed 2 Dave+Nov 24 2002, 11:40 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Speed 2 Dave @ Nov 24 2002, 11:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Oh, if you guys have never seen a lamer marine? They hide in the vents via jetpacks.. It takes just as long to kill as a lamer skulk, but I bet that happens so rarely nobody has really ever complained.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Heh, I've seen worse. I saw a lamer marine go into a cieling vent with a jetpack and take the time to mine it up strategically (so fades couldn't simply blast the mines and kill him), then wait in the vent with a HMG, replacing the mines if a lerk or skulk blew up, blasting anything that survived. I certainly don't support that sort of thing.
And yeah, I've seen the aliens go from two players alive up to defended hive with all their players respawned. Granted, I've never actually seen them win a game from that position, but I think it's quite heavy-handed to just say that if the aliens control no hives they automatically lose, especially if that doesn't count hives that are currently building. Granted, I don't think that the aliens automatically winning if they control three hvies is a solution to this, but I think it needs to be modified.
Aynways, I think the game ends for the marines if they have no commander and no spawn portals. Which actually was pretty bad once. Our base was being overrun and our commander put down a second CC where me and another fellow were trying to build a secondary base. The aliens took out the infantry portals and then the CC, and as I went to step into the second CC to rebuild the infantry portals the game simply ended. I remember thinking that it was a little bit of a disappointment. We probably weren't going to win, but we should have been able to try.
I've had one game where I was playing as Alien and our starting hive got toasted, then our second hive got toasted.
The kicker is that they took out the starting hive with HMG, not seige guns. While the marines were going over the second hive, there were two gorges building chambers all over the starting hive. The one gorge with a clue was screaming at them to get a hive going, but eventually the marines got a clue and killed the two gorges who were spamming chambers everywhere.
Then the marines ran into the chambers all over the place. And I mean all over the place. The last clueful gorge was sitting pretty in the middle of the hive, acquiring resources, while the marines tried to figure out who was commander (there was a power struggle or something) and argued about the best way to get rid of the chamber spammage.
The gorge got the hive back up again, and we (after sitting through five minutes of alternately screaming and laughing our **obscenity** off) turned into a ton of very **obscenity** off skulks. We came across a bunch of soft, fat marines building seige guns with no backup and chewed them up, then kamakazed into the third base, took that back, and started hitting the second hive base with fades.
The marines just couldn't believe they were getting raped. Either they got complacent or they had a really bad commander. All I know is we had a really sweet win.
<!--QuoteBegin--WingWangMan+Nov 24 2002, 10:36 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (WingWangMan @ Nov 24 2002, 10:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Not to mention how long will it be til the commander comsat the hive you are trying to build secretly?
I like to think of it as like starcraft where your opponent destroys all but your SCV and two marines late game... though I have yet to see a grand comeback in NS where all hives are destroyed.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It happend to me today. We had all three hives and ended up loosing the freaking game. Everyone was on their own...and it showed by games end.
oh well. it's too bad super-heroic comebacks are not allowed anymore. tough luck. actually i think in the next patch after this, the game will automatically end when one team gets more points than the other team. oh well, too bad this game is going to hell. we'll have to look for another game. not all mods survive forever.
Why are there these constant updates? 1.01 seemed fine to me, then I join a server testing 1.03 and laser sight is everywhere. As for this auto kill thing, it's a no-no in my opinion. There have been people that simply camp all the time, but there is also a fair number of people who'll set about trying to win back a part of the game. A wait for one lame isn't that bad, just go get a drink and stretch your legs.
Anyone have tested tournament mode? Maybe when this variable is 1 the kill-kharas-if-no-hives feature is disabled. Can anyone check this? Can any developer say a word about this? Flayra, we need you!!! Get down from your clouds!!! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I should add my story here, which would not have been possible on the current setting of the 1.03 server, apparently. I was Kharaa, and the map was on Tanith. We spawned in the Fusion Reactor Hive, and proceeded to the marine base. We were all cut down in the requisite rush, but not before causing a bit of chaos. We rushed to the marine start again, three of us going through the satellite dish area outside to get there. We arrived and camped outside, when one of them gets tired of waiting and steps in. "Come on in, guys, there are no defenders." I didn't see any marine deaths, so, thinking it was safe enough, I rushed into the marine spawn area and destroyed the two Infantry Portals there. Halfway through chomping on the second IP, I find out where the marines are. "They've rushed the Fusion Hive! There are seven marines in Fusion!" This prompted my teammates to rush off. I figured that if they could attack our Hive, then why shouldn't I hurt them similarly? I proceeded to chomp my way through the Command Console. When it was down to two bars of health, I see my Hive disappear from my HUD. Oh. No. I finish off the CC, kill the commander, and pray that he didn't place another CC. Hoping that the marines would run out of ammo soon, I chomped down the armory, as well, then proceeded to meet up with my comrades using Hive Sight. Two skulks left, myself included, and a gorge. This didn't bode well for us, but I was happy to note there were only four marines left, and none were respawning. I met up with the gorge and skulk, and we proceeded to make our way through the vent systems, the skulks boosting the gorge into the vents when necessary (Skulk-o-vator, going UP). We stopped to drop a resource tower whenever the gorge indicated to us he had enough resources. Eventually the skulks resources both filled, and the gorge was getting resources faster. This was about five minutes after losing the Hive, maybe more, maybe less, it's hard to tell in-game. But amazingly enough, not a single Kharaa left our team. We started with something around eight players, and all the players stayed on the team, rooting for us to succeed. The marines finally went on global chat and demanded that we stop being lamers. Well, I couldn't give too much away, so I merely replied that we weren't. Well, that must have prompted a bit of exploring, because a resource towers fell under attack not long after. No matter. We had others. Finally the gorge indicated he was approaching 70 RPs. We moved into the Waste Handling Hive area, set down one last resource tower, and waited for enough to start a Hive. Then it would be a simple mopping-up effort, as the marines had no CC, IP, or Armory. Then a lone marine comes into the Hive area from the entrance next to the Hive. The gorge fires from a distance, and we two skulks slice him down. But the damage was done. The marines knew where we were, and we skulks were hurt, and healing wasn't available. It was a race against time. We could only hope that we would get 80 RPs and a few Offensive Chambers before they got here. Maybe the rest of the marines were at Satellite Communications. We could only hope. Then we heard the distinct clank-clank-clank of approaching marines, from the other entrance, the one with the ramp. I readied myself, and as soon as I saw a meat-pop head pop up, I jumped down. I bit twice before being cut down. The other skulk was cut down seconds later. The gorge was left, unprotected, next to the resource tower. In retrospect, a few offensive chambers would have been most helpful in warding off the marines. Especially considering there were only three left, and they have no spawn.
We lost, but it was an intense and fun game, and no one abandoned the teams, even in those tense(for me)/boring(possibly, for them, although I can't imagine it). It's sad that once in a while, we get a skulk hiding in an impossible-to-reach area that can ruin it for everyone. Which is why I place my vote against the world kill idea, and instead encourage allowing the team that lost the spawn to vote to end the game. Watching a gorge try to hide and save for a Hive can sometimes be nearly as exciting as playing yourself. Only a few minutes, you say, and reinforcements will arive...
-Ryan!
When the politicians complain that TV turns the proceedings into a circus, it should be made clear that the circus was already there, and that TV has merely demonstrated that not all the performers are well trained. -- Edward R. Murrow
I can bet the only reason aliens ever get a comeback when rebuilding a hive is because the marines leave waitin 30 minutes while you camp around going to build another hive. Let's face it, you probably have to resource towers and it will take an age to rebuild one.
I would much prefer a countdown rather than just getting killed though. People would hang around if they knew the last alien/s had a time limit to get the last hive up.
I mean, let's say we have an intelligent player with some foresight. "Oh no they are going to take out our last hive." Saying this the Gorge goes to an abandoned hive and starts to save his 65 resources for a new hive. Meanwhile the Marines kill the last hive and so that Gorge who was so close in building the final hive dies. That would be annoying!
I too have played a game where we lost our hive in early game, and were able to set up a second one quickly. This "aliens dying without any hives" crap would have prevented that.
I've lost count of the number of times when some poor teammate of mine has said "Oh man, we are soo f***ed now" and I'd respond "we are NOT. It aint over until that fat Onos sings". Sure enough we'd pull through with a fantastic comeback against an assault on our hive.
What I'm saying is: NS is, in my experience, ABOUT victory against impossible odds. I've played three hour long games in which territory changed hands at least twice, with desperate defenses, counterattacks, last stands. I've single handedly wiped out an attacking team of five lightly and one heavily armoured marine using just a carapaced skulk. It's about the triumph of skill and desperation over five million tonnes of mediocrity and firepower. And I've also seen that giving people the power to vote is a Bad thing rather than a Good thing - competant commanders have been ejected, and in other games people have been kicked or stupid things changed because the majority of the people had the wrong end of the stick.
There is NO circumstance in which a team mighty enough to crush the opposition cannot find that last person. The Kharaa have Scent of Fear, and the ability to access everywhere on the map. The TSA have grenade launchers, jetpacks, the commander's scanner, obeservatories etc. Personally, I rather enjoy a quick game of hide-and-seek after thrashing a marine team <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Seriously, the pain this feature would (and, apparently, does) cause doesn't compensate the benefits offered. So people don't have the patience to wait another five minutes? Maybe people need to learn more patience.
<!--QuoteBegin--ViPr+Nov 25 2002, 09:02 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ViPr @ Nov 25 2002, 09:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->oh well, too bad this game is going to hell. we'll have to look for another game. not all mods survive forever.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, thanks for giving us a chance ViPr. What, a few weeks and a few patches and you can already determine our game is going to hell? Real supportive.
Flayra is working his **obscenity** off, to try and fix performance, bugs, and balance issues, to try and make NS more fun for you and everyone else. He's under a great deal of pressure, trying to filter through all the complaints from all sides, and work out how best to deal with the problems. He has gotten a large amount of complaints about people ruining the enjoyment of NS, and one of those ways was people dragging out the game in a frustrating manner by simply hiding in a spot where no one could find them. So, Flayra tries to TEST out a way to counter the lameness out there, and make NS more fun for our fan base. He makes one change, that he is simply trying out, one which can be changed back just as easily, and people like you can make the mental leap that NS is going to hell, abandon ship everyone!
How are we supposed to try out new design features when people won't even let us test them out before jumping down our throats? That's why the 1.03 patch hasn't been announced yet. BECAUSE IT IS STILL IN THE TESTING PHASE.
I'm not sure exactly what changes Flayra has made, and they may or may not stay in in the final release of the patch. But what I do know is that Flayra is one of the smartest, most enthusiastic game designers I know, and he reviews all the game features thoroughly and thoughtfully. If something is obvious that it is not working to further the enjoyment of playing NS for the majority of the players, then he's the first to admit something needs to be changed.
Think of how disheatening it is, to spend all your time working on a game, and you make one change to try and improve it and you have to immediately hear how from people how much worse you've made the game and how they aren't going to play it anymore.
And, to address one of the other posts, MARINE LASER BEAMS ARE NOT AN OFFICIAL ADDITION BY THE DEVELOPERS. There are numerous NS "mods" that feature changes that server admins have done themselves, and the laser beams are one of those. Just trying to clarify.
Beta testing is not for the masses for this reason. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> I'm sure glad they did the closed beta-testing before 1.0. Could you imagine the complaints on RC3 or something? Ick.
Speaking of lasers, I don't think playtesting for a beta should be done on a server with them. This gives an advantage to the aliens that might skew results.
I'm all for increasing the time to 5 minutes.. i dont much like voting since it usually takes ages to get everyone to vote, and is frustrating meanwhile.
there is nothing wrong with a voting system. that is the best way to solve this problem and loads of other problems as well. trouble is the vote system has to be done properly or it makes things worse. the vote thing for ejecting the commander needs to be redone. stop assuming vote systems are supposed to work like that and that therefore there should be no vote system.
<!--QuoteBegin--Squeal Like A Pig+Nov 25 2002, 07:48 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Squeal Like A Pig @ Nov 25 2002, 07:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Think of how disenheartening it is, to spend all your time working on a game, and you make one change to try and improve it and you have to immediately hear how from people how much worse you've made the game and how they aren't going to play it anymore.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hell, I'd be pleased as punch. That would mean the AWNC (Average Whiny N00b Coefficient) of my game just dropped a few dozen points.
I haven't played on a 1.03 server yet, so I can't say anything on the subject. It sounds like there should be a bit of a "cooldown" time before damage starts occuring ... say, "the Marine nanites began to overwhelm and kill the Kharaa nanites in a few minutes, then slowly killing the few remaining xenoforms"
Take the nano-gridlock to another level. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--MercenaryForHire+Nov 25 2002, 11:56 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MercenaryForHire @ Nov 25 2002, 11:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->... say, "the Marine nanites began to overwhelm and kill the Kharaa nanites in a few minutes, then slowly killing the few remaining xenoforms"<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ah, but according to <a href='http://www.natural-selection.org/manual/alien_hivesight.html' target='_blank'>the manual</a>, when the Hives disappear, the Kharaa bacterium (nanites are an artificial, robotic creation, not organic, as the Kharaa are) begin to degrade over a period of about 20 hours.
-Ryan!
The trouble with jogging is that the ice falls out of your glass. -- Martin Mull
I haven't seen any games where aliens have won after losing all their hives, although I've heard of such cases, but I've been in a few games where the aliens had all three hives and eventually lost the game, where the marines made a comeback, and several where they almost did. It would be a shame if games ended short like that and the possibility of a comeback was denied.
Comments
skark? never heard that one before
A 5-minute delay sounds about right, and the countdown should stop if a hive starts being built, or never start if one is already building.
I've played a game similar to one said before where one hive was undefended and 2 gorgs got the other hives up at the same time, then origional hive was destroyed and before the marines knew what was happening they got faded. That was a fun game.
Frightening, no? Mostly, they could work it because they were in a fairly open area, meaning any skulk was in their LOS for a few seconds, at least... no real easy way to get to them.
Yes, we **obscenity** up, but that's not the point... the point is that we WON that game, despite losing our hive... because the gorge had skittered off to the OTHER END OF THE MAP and set up another hive while the marines were busy killing off the first one and securing it.
When you set it up so that we start taking damage immediately after losing a hive, it just sucks. Give us a few minutes (stopped by another hive beginning construction, of course) before this kicks in, please... the lamer endings will happen almost as fast, but the comebacks will still be possible.
moral of the story: either count hives in production as hives or deal with hiding punks.
*shrug* but I'm for removing it altogether.
Heh, I've seen worse. I saw a lamer marine go into a cieling vent with a jetpack and take the time to mine it up strategically (so fades couldn't simply blast the mines and kill him), then wait in the vent with a HMG, replacing the mines if a lerk or skulk blew up, blasting anything that survived. I certainly don't support that sort of thing.
And yeah, I've seen the aliens go from two players alive up to defended hive with all their players respawned. Granted, I've never actually seen them win a game from that position, but I think it's quite heavy-handed to just say that if the aliens control no hives they automatically lose, especially if that doesn't count hives that are currently building. Granted, I don't think that the aliens automatically winning if they control three hvies is a solution to this, but I think it needs to be modified.
Aynways, I think the game ends for the marines if they have no commander and no spawn portals. Which actually was pretty bad once. Our base was being overrun and our commander put down a second CC where me and another fellow were trying to build a secondary base. The aliens took out the infantry portals and then the CC, and as I went to step into the second CC to rebuild the infantry portals the game simply ended. I remember thinking that it was a little bit of a disappointment. We probably weren't going to win, but we should have been able to try.
The kicker is that they took out the starting hive with HMG, not seige guns. While the marines were going over the second hive, there were two gorges building chambers all over the starting hive. The one gorge with a clue was screaming at them to get a hive going, but eventually the marines got a clue and killed the two gorges who were spamming chambers everywhere.
Then the marines ran into the chambers all over the place. And I mean all over the place. The last clueful gorge was sitting pretty in the middle of the hive, acquiring resources, while the marines tried to figure out who was commander (there was a power struggle or something) and argued about the best way to get rid of the chamber spammage.
The gorge got the hive back up again, and we (after sitting through five minutes of alternately screaming and laughing our **obscenity** off) turned into a ton of very **obscenity** off skulks. We came across a bunch of soft, fat marines building seige guns with no backup and chewed them up, then kamakazed into the third base, took that back, and started hitting the second hive base with fades.
The marines just couldn't believe they were getting raped. Either they got complacent or they had a really bad commander. All I know is we had a really sweet win.
I like to think of it as like starcraft where your opponent destroys all but your SCV and two marines late game... though I have yet to see a grand comeback in NS where all hives are destroyed.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It happend to me today. We had all three hives and ended up loosing the freaking game. Everyone was on their own...and it showed by games end.
Maybe when this variable is 1 the kill-kharas-if-no-hives feature is disabled.
Can anyone check this? Can any developer say a word about this?
Flayra, we need you!!! Get down from your clouds!!! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
We lost, but it was an intense and fun game, and no one abandoned the teams, even in those tense(for me)/boring(possibly, for them, although I can't imagine it). It's sad that once in a while, we get a skulk hiding in an impossible-to-reach area that can ruin it for everyone. Which is why I place my vote against the world kill idea, and instead encourage allowing the team that lost the spawn to vote to end the game. Watching a gorge try to hide and save for a Hive can sometimes be nearly as exciting as playing yourself. Only a few minutes, you say, and reinforcements will arive...
-Ryan!
When the politicians complain that TV turns the proceedings into a circus, it should be made clear that the circus was already there, and that TV has merely demonstrated that not all the performers are well trained.
-- Edward R. Murrow
I would much prefer a countdown rather than just getting killed though. People would hang around if they knew the last alien/s had a time limit to get the last hive up.
I mean, let's say we have an intelligent player with some foresight. "Oh no they are going to take out our last hive." Saying this the Gorge goes to an abandoned hive and starts to save his 65 resources for a new hive. Meanwhile the Marines kill the last hive and so that Gorge who was so close in building the final hive dies. That would be annoying!
Please don't leave it in! Please? Please? *whimper * *whimper *whine* *cry* *sob*
I too have played a game where we lost our hive in early game, and were able to set up a second one quickly. This "aliens dying without any hives" crap would have prevented that.
I've lost count of the number of times when some poor teammate of mine has said "Oh man, we are soo f***ed now" and I'd respond "we are NOT. It aint over until that fat Onos sings". Sure enough we'd pull through with a fantastic comeback against an assault on our hive.
What I'm saying is: NS is, in my experience, ABOUT victory against impossible odds. I've played three hour long games in which territory changed hands at least twice, with desperate defenses, counterattacks, last stands. I've single handedly wiped out an attacking team of five lightly and one heavily armoured marine using just a carapaced skulk. It's about the triumph of skill and desperation over five million tonnes of mediocrity and firepower. And I've also seen that giving people the power to vote is a Bad thing rather than a Good thing - competant commanders have been ejected, and in other games people have been kicked or stupid things changed because the majority of the people had the wrong end of the stick.
There is NO circumstance in which a team mighty enough to crush the opposition cannot find that last person. The Kharaa have Scent of Fear, and the ability to access everywhere on the map. The TSA have grenade launchers, jetpacks, the commander's scanner, obeservatories etc. Personally, I rather enjoy a quick game of hide-and-seek after thrashing a marine team <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Seriously, the pain this feature would (and, apparently, does) cause doesn't compensate the benefits offered. So people don't have the patience to wait another five minutes? Maybe people need to learn more patience.
[edit: a few typos fixed]
Yeah, thanks for giving us a chance ViPr. What, a few weeks and a few patches and you can already determine our game is going to hell? Real supportive.
Flayra is working his **obscenity** off, to try and fix performance, bugs, and balance issues, to try and make NS more fun for you and everyone else. He's under a great deal of pressure, trying to filter through all the complaints from all sides, and work out how best to deal with the problems. He has gotten a large amount of complaints about people ruining the enjoyment of NS, and one of those ways was people dragging out the game in a frustrating manner by simply hiding in a spot where no one could find them. So, Flayra tries to TEST out a way to counter the lameness out there, and make NS more fun for our fan base. He makes one change, that he is simply trying out, one which can be changed back just as easily, and people like you can make the mental leap that NS is going to hell, abandon ship everyone!
How are we supposed to try out new design features when people won't even let us test them out before jumping down our throats? That's why the 1.03 patch hasn't been announced yet. BECAUSE IT IS STILL IN THE TESTING PHASE.
I'm not sure exactly what changes Flayra has made, and they may or may not stay in in the final release of the patch. But what I do know is that Flayra is one of the smartest, most enthusiastic game designers I know, and he reviews all the game features thoroughly and thoughtfully. If something is obvious that it is not working to further the enjoyment of playing NS for the majority of the players, then he's the first to admit something needs to be changed.
Think of how disheatening it is, to spend all your time working on a game, and you make one change to try and improve it and you have to immediately hear how from people how much worse you've made the game and how they aren't going to play it anymore.
And, to address one of the other posts, MARINE LASER BEAMS ARE NOT AN OFFICIAL ADDITION BY THE DEVELOPERS. There are numerous NS "mods" that feature changes that server admins have done themselves, and the laser beams are one of those. Just trying to clarify.
I'm sure glad they did the closed beta-testing before 1.0. Could you imagine the complaints on RC3 or something? Ick.
Speaking of lasers, I don't think playtesting for a beta should be done on a server with them. This gives an advantage to the aliens that might skew results.
Hell, I'd be pleased as punch. That would mean the AWNC (Average Whiny N00b Coefficient) of my game just dropped a few dozen points.
I haven't played on a 1.03 server yet, so I can't say anything on the subject. It sounds like there should be a bit of a "cooldown" time before damage starts occuring ... say, "the Marine nanites began to overwhelm and kill the Kharaa nanites in a few minutes, then slowly killing the few remaining xenoforms"
Take the nano-gridlock to another level. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
- M4H
Ah, but according to <a href='http://www.natural-selection.org/manual/alien_hivesight.html' target='_blank'>the manual</a>, when the Hives disappear, the Kharaa bacterium (nanites are an artificial, robotic creation, not organic, as the Kharaa are) begin to degrade over a period of about 20 hours.
-Ryan!
The trouble with jogging is that the ice falls out of your glass.
-- Martin Mull