ByekaName changed from Freak83TorontoJoin Date: 2003-03-13Member: 14484Members, Constellation
As of the moment I'm still rather confused about who to vote for, here's a brief convo I had with TMM on IRC. I had this convo before I read TMM's respond to my earlier post.
<themuffinman|YNWA> hiya <themuffinman|YNWA> i'd like to clarify a few points, if you don't mind <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> <Freak83|HUMAN> go ahead <themuffinman|YNWA> i'm not in contact with the seer. i never have been and i've never said otherwise. slacky misunderstood what has been written <themuffinman|YNWA> just wanted to get that right out because its causing confusion on the thread <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" /> <themuffinman|YNWA> if you've got any questions regarding this seer business though, feel free to ask. i'll try to answer to the best of my ability <Freak83|HUMAN> i do <themuffinman|YNWA> shoot <Freak83|HUMAN> generally, can you explain WHAT is going on with the seer thing cause i'm reading different theories from every direction and now TBH with you saying that i'm not quite sure what the deal is with the seer <themuffinman|YNWA> i'll explain what i know <themuffinman|YNWA> the seer contacted thansal some time during day 1, with information that lofl was a wolf <themuffinman|YNWA> thansal contacted me, stating that he was a 3rd party in this. by that time we'd been talking for quite a while which is why i imagine he came to me <themuffinman|YNWA> this happened after the forum went down. I decided to make it public, then thansal made his post <themuffinman|YNWA> end of night two he tells me that the seer has found a wolf in im_lost <themuffinman|YNWA> he then makes the post on the forums. By this time i'd been thinking about whether or not to make it public or go underground and hopefully give the seer time to find another human <themuffinman|YNWA> but thansal went public so i supported him. thats as far as we've got <themuffinman|YNWA> but i wouldn't want to vote him out. if this is fake then i doubt it's him doing it, rather the 'seer' playing him. and if it's real then he's our contact with the seer <themuffinman|YNWA> sorry if that sounds rehearsed, but i think that's about the 10th time i've written that all down <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> <Freak83|HUMAN> k i have some new questions coming to mind now <Freak83|HUMAN> even if you and thansal have been talking, why would he let you in on this at all? still kind of risky isn't it <themuffinman|YNWA> you'd have to talk to him to find out from the horses mouth, so the speak <themuffinman|YNWA> but i can give you my take on it <Freak83|HUMAN> also, what makes you so sure that it's the seer who's a wolf (if it's a fake at all) and not thansal himself <Freak83|HUMAN> please do <themuffinman|YNWA> we'd been talking about the game for quite a while, i suppose he trusted me enough with that info. considering if i didn't do anything with it he could pin me as a wolf or atleast a suspect <themuffinman|YNWA> or maybe he figured that if i was a wolf i'd want to work my way to this 'seer' of his (as i'd know that he's the real deal) <themuffinman|YNWA> with the 2nd question, it's just a feeling i've got, you know? <themuffinman|YNWA> he contributes equally with discussions on different topics <themuffinman|YNWA> he doesn't seem to be forcing me to a conclusion, he doesn't seem to have an agenda <themuffinman|YNWA> it's the little things, but obviously nothing is for certain <Freak83|HUMAN> if he's a wolf just trying to have your trust though it's another thing <Freak83|HUMAN> anyway that clears a lot up for me <themuffinman|YNWA> np <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> <themuffinman|YNWA> could i ask for your take on this? <Freak83|HUMAN> as of now i don't have one, i've been trying to figure out what's going on from each perspective so it's just good to know what the different sides are for the moment <Freak83|HUMAN> i need to think on all this before i can vote <themuffinman|YNWA> i don't like seeing it as different sides, really. we're all working towards the same goal <themuffinman|YNWA> but aye, it's a strong allegation so i suppose it is going to split people <themuffinman|YNWA> i'm off now anyway, won't be on until tomorrow so i'll miss the end of the day <themuffinman|YNWA> see you on the other side, and good luck with whatever vote you make <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
End result, I'm not convinced that Thansal has indeed been contacted by the Seer. There's a lot of evidence against him. However, if he has then I would rather not vote him off.
So far the only evidence I see on im_lost is what has been said by Thansal, and before I do cast a vote for im_lost I'd like to have a little more than that. Therefore, perhaps to even up the tally a little more I'm voting for <b>Thansal</b>.
MouseThe Lighter Side of PessimismJoin Date: 2002-03-02Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
The way I figure it, either im_lost or Thansal is a wolf. If their votes are equal at the end of the day, one of them is chosen at random. With that in mind, I vote for <b>Thansal</b>
Okay, so from what I understand there are basically two people worthy of my vote right now: im_lost and thaslan.
At first, I was suspicious of im_lost, mostly because as somebody already mentioned he wasn't able to make any concrete points to defend himself.
However, the more I thought about it, the more uncomfortable I get with Thansal's very open approach right down from day one. I'm new to TWG and to the whole forum politics but from what I understand the seer is our one serious advantage for us, and it is our job to protect him as well as possible.
If I were a seer, my first priority would be to check if someone is human and then contact that person fully convinced that there is no way that person is a wolf and no way that the humans would lose their advantage to a wolf. In this game, things seem to be different...
Thansal's admits that the seer did not check him but checked lolfighter instead and confirmed he is a wolf. This seems really hard for me to accept since it had only been day one and this would mean that the seer had already put his hands into Thansal's by taking a chance on him...
What even bothers me the most is that on the second night, the seer refused to check on Thansal and once again checked up on someone else (I assume im_lost, as the story goes) without still having confrimed that Thansal is a human or not.
Once again, I'm really uncomfortable with this because we're basically putting our hands on Thansal. I mean if the seer hasn't confirmed that Thansal isn't human. How can we?
The way I see it, here are some possibilities:
1) Thansal is the seer, and hence has no reason to check himself... I doubt this, as being the seer I would never jeopardize my position by also acting as an active spokesperson for the group.
2) Thansal is really in contact with the seer but could possibly be a wolf, having gained his trust, which could be very dangerous, as perhaps we have a seer who has taken a big gamble on behalf of the humans...
3) Thansal is really a wolf, and has set up a highly convincing story and has managed to got lucky and kill two humans. (If lolfighter was a wolf, Thansal would never have brought suspicion to him, and would have known that none of the wolves are lovers.)
These are my reasons for suspecting Thansal. I'm not sure he's a wolf or not, but either way I feel like we're taking a big risk trusting Thansal, and my gut feeling is to vote for him.
voter votee reason im_lost harrower inactivity iggymatrix muffinman none given doomchica harrower inactivity, horrible grasp of rules mouse doomchica coming down hard on harrower thansal im_lost seer info harrower im_lost revenge micr0c0sm iggymatrix none given aldaris ana none given slacky muffinman unsure of thansals story, muffinman+thansal working close together xentor thansal unsure of thansals story ana thansal unsure of thansals story iggymatrix im_lost (micr0 editor note: i cant grasp your reason, please explain) zor2 im_lost believes muffinman is human mouse thansal evening out the votes aldaris im_lost evening out the votes chakuu thansal too risky to place trust in thansal
yet to vote: Gwahir
data
main arguement is thansal+muffinman's story. some vote on gut feeling. some calling out the psychic.
analysis
lucky/weak story (immediately trusting seer + 2 wolf kills?), so easy to argue for or against not sure what calling out the psychic would do at this time. the main point of contention not factual, but logical. (pm for explanation)
conclusion
if the seer or psychic is alive, the result of this vote will be able to determine ONLY the truth of thans+muffinman's INITIAL INFORMATION. THIS IS MAJOR. Please converse with me so I can clarify the good and bad of what I expect will happen tomorrow. I am having enourmous difficulty in putting it into words, I expect a Q&A will make it much easier for me to communicate.
expect a seer and/or psychic to come out tomorrow no matter what.
tonights gonna be a good night <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
EMP_DemonNothing to see here.Join Date: 2005-01-28Member: 38754Members, Constellation
microcosm's table:
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->voter | votee | reason im_lost | harrower | inactivity iggymatrix | muffinman | none given doomchica | harrower | inactivity, horrible grasp of rules mouse | doomchica | coming down hard on harrower thansal | im_lost | seer info harrower | im_lost | revenge micr0c0sm | iggymatrix | none given aldaris | ana | none given slacky | muffinman | unsure of thansals story, muffinman+thansal working close together xentor | thansal | unsure of thansals story ana | thansal | unsure of thansals story iggymatrix | im_lost | (micr0 editor note: i cant grasp your reason, please explain) zor2 | im_lost | believes muffinman is human mouse | thansal | evening out the votes aldaris | im_lost | evening out the votes chakuu | thansal | too risky to place trust in thansal <!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
gwahir is a wolf. waiting to make sure the votes are even, then posting very close to the end to tip the wolves win.
actually now that i think of it any one who voted 'to even the votes' could be a wolf, waiting to switch at last minute.
is that allowed / possible in this game it seems like a kinda major flaw, or just very effective tactic - split the votes, then switch to win. rinse and repeat, sacrifices sure but net positive. im afraid i'll be refreshing until the last minute
EMP_DemonNothing to see here.Join Date: 2005-01-28Member: 38754Members, Constellation
edited February 2007
<b><i><!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->It is now Night Three: No Posting!<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></b></i>
<b>Aldaris</b> looked at the mess the fallen missile rack had caused in the armoury. Shaking his head, he immediately radioed the bridge...
Despite the recent deaths, the crew of the <i>I/O</i> attempted to resume their everyday duties. On the bridge, <b>Freak83</b> was sitting in the captain's chair, just waiting for something to happen, or else for something to end the relative boredom of the long, long journey. <b>wonedslackystyle</b> obviously thought likewise, as he was napping at the communications station. <b>Harrower</b> was at the helm, as he usually was, and likewise with <b>Xentor</b> at tactical. <b>Chakuu</b> was at the navigator's station, in the absence of Isamil.
As though he read <b>Freak83</b>'s mind, <b>iggymatrixcounter</b> stepped onto the bridge and immediately motioned that he needed to talk to <b>Freak83</b>. <b>Freak83</b> got up and went over to <b>iggymatrixcounter</b>, then asked, "What is it?"
"We have a problem," <b>iggymatrixcounter</b> replied, "Someone's been setting traps all over. I nearly got fried exiting my quarters this morning, and <b>Gwahir</b> got poisoned when he opened one of his drawers in the medical bay."
<b>Freak83</b> was nearly shocked at the last point. "Is he okay?"
<b>iggymatrixcounter</b> nodded his head and stated, "He got lucky, whoever set the trap wasn't too bright; the antidote was just behind it in the exact same drawer."
Just then, the intercom came on and <b>Aldaris</b> spoke, "Armoury to bridge, looks like someone booby-trapped a missile rack. Nobody's hurt, but I need some help cleaning this up." All the while, <b>wonedslackystyle</b> kept sleeping through the message, even when the intercom clicked itself off.
<b>Freak83</b> looked over to <b>iggymatrixcounter</b> and said, "Okay, here's what you're going to do. Go down to the armoury and help <b>Aldaris</b> clean it up. Then-"
"You have to be kidding me," <b>iggymatrixcounter</b> replied, "Can't you get <b>Zor2</b> to..."
"<i>Then</i>..." <b>Freak83</b> continued, "Arm the crew. If you see anyone setting up more traps, arrest them and have them confined to quarters. Get <b>Zor2</b>, <b>TheMuffinMan</b>, and <b>microcosm</b> to help you."
<b>iggymatrixcounter</b> immediately shut up, then stormed off the bridge.
(drip... drip...)
<b>wonedslackystyle</b> groggily woke up at the feel of water splashing on his face. Turning around, he muttered, "Not funny guys, I'm really tired from the double shift." Everyone else just stared at him, wondering what he was talking about. "None of you splashed water on me?" <b>wonedslackystyle</b> felt a few more drops on his head, then realized... <i>'There's a leak in the ceiling?'</i>
<b>Chakuu</b> looked at his map, and replied, "From what I can tell, we're right below the Zot River. Either the river runs underground and we're driving through it, or there's a leak aboveground, maybe due to the formation of the tunnel."
<b>Freak83</b> sat down and ordered <b>Harrower</b>, "Keep us going, we can't let a little water stop us."
Down in the engineering section, <b>doomchica</b> and <b>im_lost</b> were performing a systems checkup on the engine components, just to make sure everything was working perfectly. However, neither of them heard the metal groaning above them...
<b>im_lost</b> moved over, and opened the deck to reveal an unshielded power line, which tied the main generator to the engines and the rest of the <i>I/O</i>. Looking up to <b>doomchica</b>, he said, "I'll check the power distribution, go make sure the generator's refilled."
Nodding, <b>doomchica</b> left, leaving <b>im_lost</b> alone, only to be replaced by <b>Thansal</b> a minute later. <b>Thansal</b> asked, "I'm heading to the remaining cargo bay, do you need anything?" <b>im_lost</b> opened his mouth to reply...
It was only then that he heard the groaning of metal under a large weight - and by then it was too late. The engineering section's ceiling split open, and water came pouring through, right over <b>im_lost</b>'s head. <b>Thansal</b> dove to try and push <b>im_lost</b> out of the path of falling water...
<b>Thansal</b> pushed <b>im_lost</b> out of the way, onto the insulated deck. A massive power surge got sent through <b><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->Thansal<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b>'s body through the water, causing him to spark as the generator's feed got sent through him. However, the short circuit drove the full power of the generator into the main engine...
All over the <i>I/O</i>, everyone was being thrown into the nearest wall as the tank roared to massive speeds, engine whining as though it could explode...
On the bridge, all five people were worried as to what just happened. <b>Freak83</b> shouted to <b>Xentor</b> over the roar of the engine, "<i>What's going on NOW?</i>"
<b>Xentor</b> could only reply, "<i>I don't know!</i>"
<b>Harrower</b> noticed the speed, and with a bit of mental math, he realized... "<i>At this rate, we'll hit Checkpoint Nu in 60 seconds!</i>"
<b>Freak83</b> was both impressed and shocked, "<i>Looks like we're making good time then!</i>"
<b>Harrower</b> obviously felt differently though, and mentioned, "<i>I didn't say we'd <b>reach</b> it, at this speed, we're going to flat-out <b>HIT</b> it!"</i>
<b>wonedslackystyle</b> took the unspoken cue from <b>Harrower</b>'s train of thought, and immediately radioed throughout the <i>I/O</i>, "<i><b>All hands, brace for impact!</i></b>"...
All roles and humans (if alive) should PM me, and the Psychic (if alive) will be getting a PM shortly.
The night will end <b>Tuesday, Feb. 27th, 8:00 PM EST (5:00 PM PST)</b>.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[18:39] lolfighter: It got close, yes. [18:39] EMPDemon|Writing: So you wrote the story so it could've gone either way? [18:39] lolfighter: But a last-minute vote decided it. [18:39] lolfighter: Yep, I did. [18:40] lolfighter: Had it been random, I would've left out the last, deciding paragraph. [18:40] lolfighter: Then posted it fifteen minutes later. [18:40] lolfighter: Cliffhanger supreme. :> [18:40] EMPDemon|Writing: Heh. [18:40] lolfighter: Do that!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You got your wish, lolly <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
EMP_DemonNothing to see here.Join Date: 2005-01-28Member: 38754Members, Constellation
edited February 2007
<b><i><!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->It is now Day Three: Post away!<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></i></b>
"General, we're picking up an unidentified craft coming in by the tunnels. It's <i>fast</i>, sir!" Commander Mondez was watching the radar for any sign of the <i>I/O</i>.
General <b>Theslan</b> walked over to the radar console and asked, "Is it the <i>Insurrection Omega</i>?"
Mondez replied, "There's no way to tell, and at their speed, we won't be able to get the blast doors up in time even if it IS them."
<b>Theslan</b> tried to consider other options, "What about communications?"
Mondez shook his head, "Our transmitter won't reach until they get a lot closer, and by that time..."
<b>Theslan</b> could only hope that the <i>I/O</i> was okay...
In the armoury, <b>Aldaris</b> was almost literally stuck between a rock and a hard place; he was pinned between one of the still-mounted missile racks and a fallen rack of light machine guns. Unable to move, the best <b>Aldaris</b> could do was avoid getting crushed by the machine guns...
Meanwhile, <b>Zor2</b>, <b>microcosm</b>, and <b>TheMuffinMan</b>, now able to move, rushed to the topside turret. Without a word, <b>Zor2</b> got into the gunner's seat, while <b>microcosm</b> and <b>TheMuffinMan</b> went into the adjacent ammunition control room. Under normal circumstances, there would be one person in the ammunition control for each turret, but with the crew shortages and the current situation, they would need all the missiles they could get. <b>Zor2</b> immediately armed and fired the pair of missiles already loaded in the tubes...
Mondez looked at the radar, and noticed a pair of blips coming from the unknown craft. "Missile launch! I repeat, missile launch!"
<b>Theslan</b> shouted over the general intercom, "Evacuate the incoming tunnel door!"
As the troops fled the door the missiles were heading towards, Mondez noticed the IFF for the blip had come into indentifiable range... "Sir, it's the <i>Insurrection Omega</i>, and it looks like they're slowing down!"
<b>Theslan</b> took this as good news, "Are they going to slow down enough for us to open the blast doors?"
Mondez shook his head, "There's no way they could slow down that much, with that kind of momentum."
<b>Theslan</b> suddenly realized what the <i>I/O</i> was trying to do, and then ordered the base, "Prepare arrestor wires for tank configuration! Set tension for double strength! I don't want that thing to crash!"
Without waiting for the first pair of missiles to hit the blast doors, <b>Zor2</b> immediately fired the next pair right after it had been loaded by <b>TheMuffinMan</b> and <b>microcosm</b>. He watched as the first pair of missiles hit, and seemed to have no effect. He fired another pair as soon as it was loaded...
The second pair of missiles hit, then the third. At nearly point-blank range, <b>Zor2</b> fired one final pair of missiles...
In the interior of Checkpoint Nu, the entire base could see the blast door being blown open, followed by the sight of the <i>I/O</i> rushing forward through the breach, then immediately getting caught on the arrestor wires. The <i>I/O</i> seemed to struggle for a minute against the counter to its speed, then appeared to finally come to a stop.
The sudden stop, however, caused things to reverse in the <i>I/O</i>'s armoury, as <b>Aldaris</b> was thrown back, back against the machine gun rack that was pinning him. Unfortunately, one of the missile racks he was pinned against earlier came loose, and headed straight for him...
There was an audible sigh of relief on the bridge, and <b>Freak83</b> made a mental note to find out who launched those missiles, possibly saving all of them. <b>wonedslackystyle</b> nearly fainted, but a message from the armoury stopped him, "<b>iggymatrixcounter</b> to Bridge."
<b>wonedslackystyle</b> responded wearily, "Bridge here, what is it?"
<b>iggymatrixcounter</b> only had to say a few words, "<b><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->Aldaris</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> is dead. Crushed by a missile rack. I'm going to need some help down here..."
<b>Freak83</b> stumbled over to the communications console, and replied over the ship, "<b>Freak83</b> to all hands, we've reached Checkpoint Nu. Our objective for now is to get the <i>I/O</i> back to working order, as fast as possible. I want everyone to help out however they can to accomplish this. <b>Freak83</b> out."
<b>Freak83</b> turned and started to walk away, when the communications console clicked back on. On the other end, he could hear <b>Theslan</b>'s voice, "Checkpoint Nu to <i>Insurrection Omega</i>... Next time, how about you knock before you blow open our front door?" There was a bit of laughter on the other end, and the five people on the bridge lightly chuckled as well, before immediately locking down systems and leaving the bridge to start repairs...
ByekaName changed from Freak83TorontoJoin Date: 2003-03-13Member: 14484Members, Constellation
I'm making a post for the sake of making a post. It's been nearly 3 hours since the story went up and no-one has anything to say?
Ok let's start on why Aldaris was killed. I never spoke to the guy so any of my theories can be based off what's written in the thread. So far I don't see any pattern in terms of killing experienced or inexperienced players since Isamil died last night (experienced) and now Aldaris tonight (first game here, did he play elsewhere?)
Unless it's just to cause general confusion anyhow.
They happened to be 11 and 12 in the original player's list. Also, Thansal is 13. I think the pattern is accidental or stupid.
Aldaris was one of the people evening out votes. Perhaps the wolves were thanking him w/ death! Heh. So like them. The other players evening out votes may have been wolves and as such the wolfed Aldaris to draw attention away from those votes. ...or to them.
He hasn't had much activity in the game... One bandwagon vote early on. Some talk about how unlikely the circumstances of the game are. A random unexplained vote for Ana. Then another unexplained vote for im_lost.
This could be another reason for wolfing him. Not much activity to go on and therefore more of us spinning our wheels.
MouseThe Lighter Side of PessimismJoin Date: 2002-03-02Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
I'll probably elaborate on this later, but despite the increasing evidence that the vigi is dead, I think Aldaris would be a more logical target for the vigi than for the wolves. Though that would mean that either the wolves went for Aldaris too (invalidating my argument a bit), or the guardian protected the wolves' target.
As to the vigilante... there are a few possibilities
1) The vigilante somehow missed that it is a secret role. If you got sent the role human, you might actually be the vigilante and now know it. Yes, really.
2) The guardian is awesome and has prevented double kills the last two nights. Hopefully from the wolves.
3) The vigilante knows that they <i>could</i> be the vigilante and isn't testing it out anyway.
4) The vigilante is dead. Whoops!
Whee! Autoappend! <!--quoteo(post=1609931:date=Feb 28 2007, 01:35 AM:name=doomchica)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(doomchica @ Feb 28 2007, 01:35 AM) [snapback]1609931[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1) The vigilante somehow missed that it is a secret role. If you got sent the role human, you might actually be the vigilante and now know it. Yes, really.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->now -> not
Seriously, 18 hours into the day and I still get to make the first vote of the day? This game is really strange. I was around earlier, but I wanted to wait and see how this day started. Since yesterday revolved around Thansal accusing me of being a werewolf, with other people supposedly connected to him (TheMuffinMan, plus the seer according to Thansal), I wanted to see if anyone else started things off by accusing me today. It appears that the day isn't going to go in that direction, so I'll go with my own thoughts instead.
<!--quoteo(post=1609517:date=Feb 26 2007, 02:35 PM:name=iggymatrixcounter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(iggymatrixcounter @ Feb 26 2007, 02:35 PM) [snapback]1609517[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> enough time has passed for the psychic to step up if there has been evidence of foul play. For now I'm going to just go with <b> im_lost </b>
I talked with him a little bit too, and he wasn't at all trying to say there was evidence of anything wrong, if the roles were switched, you would bet that I would be trying to do as much discrediting and mouthing out that something was up but he seemed to be taking it from our perspective that it could go either way and that is enough to confirm to me that there's no wirries as of now. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Now, a lot of you have played plenty of games with me. Does that seem like how I would play, doing as much as I can to discredit others to defend myself (Theslan, you could give feedback from how our discussion went last game, when you were deciding which side to take)? More to the point, doesn't that seem more like the desperate behavior that a wolf would have, making as many discrediting comments as possible, compared to a human (with no special role) that could accept their death and recognize that the humans still have more time? I realize us humans have to work quickly in this game to find and kill the werewolves, but it still seems that it would make more sense to expect irrationalness (I thought I was making up a word here, apparently it's actually in the dictionary) from a werewolf.
Therefore, I place my vote on <b>iggymatrixcounter</b>. It's certainly not very conclusive evidence, so my vote is open to being changed.
There are bigger issues here, I guess the thread decided to just vote one accused person from each party to be safe so I'm not sure what my ultimate conclusion on yesterday's lynch was.
As far as Im_lost is concerned, yes I do not know how you play as a twger. But like I've either said to you or the thread, if our roles were reversed, then as a human I would know that something is up and would warn the humans as much as possible about what was going down. You seemed open to the idea that thansal could be legit or manipulated. (You didn't consider him being a wolf if I do remember our conversation)
Sorry if that's not how you play. Maybe if it was, there wouldn't be as big of a confusion over who's seering who this game.
I'm still mad that vigi kill isn't apparent yet. This whole thansal, muffin / im_lost, lol situation would have been over if the vigi kills were used and we would almost be garanteed at least two wolves rather than maybe 1 so far. (assuming these two pairs in question are on opposing sides, which I think is a good conclusion.)
My biggest suspicion now is micro. (along with others who flip-flopped yesterday but his was the one that changed the kill) I want to know why he changed his vote from im_lost to thansal right at the last second. There would have to be some big piece of evidence that would make me take the game into my own hands like that and I want to know why it happened.
Sorry it's taken so long for me to make a post - i've got a dead busy week and as such only have maybe an hour a day (if that) to play the game at the moment.
In terms of a possible connection between the two kills - both voted for lolfighter on day one. Assuming that lolf was a wolf, then i think it's fair to say that they've been seeking out the seer.
I was hoping that perhaps some new information would come to light today (the psychic, for instance, will have solid evidence regarding the last two people to be lynched). However, nothing has come up and so i'm forced to go back to yesterdays events. The wolfing of two players who voted for lolfighter tells me that those two were on to something. And if the first seering was legitimate, then the chances are good that the second seering was also legitimate. With that in mind, i am voting once again for <b>im_lost</b>.
I'd like the psychic to contact me asap. If you're at all concerned then please use an anonymous account. I'm not looking to trick anyone here, i'd just like the chance to talk. I've got information that may concern you, and i think i've got a way in which we can both confirm that we are who we say we are.
As i said, an anonymous contact would be more than i'd hope for - i've got no intention of tricking you. A chat is all i'm asking for.
Yesterday it really put me in a tight spot to wait like I did. So I'm going to get some kind of vote in early this time.
[b]Harrower[\b]
Mainly because it is unlikely that he will get voted off and I'll change my vote if I find reason enough to.
Also, Muffin, I was under the impression that all 3 human roles were already talking. Could've just been rumour (a little game of internet telephone perhaps) but could you fill us in on how many of these roles are talking? No names needed. Or did I misinterpret your post and all 3 are talking, just not with you?
<!--quoteo(post=1610077:date=Feb 28 2007, 05:14 PM:name=Gwahir)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Gwahir @ Feb 28 2007, 05:14 PM) [snapback]1610077[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, Muffin, I was under the impression that all 3 human roles were already talking. Could've just been rumour (a little game of internet telephone perhaps) but could you fill us in on how many of these roles are talking? No names needed. Or did I misinterpret your post and all 3 are talking, just not with you?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Correct me if I'm wrong, but according to Thansal's claims from yesterday, only his "seer" was involved (I'm still not 100% sure whether he was legit). If you subscribe to my possible theory from yesterday, then his "seer" was fake, but the psychic may have been Isamil (Just a possible theory, not a fact).
As far as I know, no mention has been made (Well, in public, at least) of the guardian... And the vigilante is still nowhere to be found (Most likely either dead or still unaware of his role).
I hate to say it, but with the lack of communication from any roles (Unless of course I'm out of the loop), the seer and psychic may both be dead. The seer may be building a network in secret (Or may just not have anyone to trust yet), but the psychic can't do any harm by anonymously tipping us as to his results. The guardian has no reason to come forward without a trustworthy human network, so is quite possibly out there somewhere.
Alright, I have a reason to vote now... I just got home and read over the IRC logs for today... Here's what kept sticking out... (Note: These are excerpts, in order but spaced out among other dialogue)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> [15:54] <PS_M|Away> I'm actually suprised that no-one has leapt on what me and micro did and accused us of being wolves yet [15:54] <themuffinman|YNWA> why bother when we've already got a wolf in our sights? :/ [15:55] <PS_M|Away> who's this? [15:55] <themuffinman|YNWA> im_lost, as far as i'm concerned ... [15:56] <themuffinman|YNWA> with both kills suggesting that lolfighter was a wolf, it stands to reason that im_lost is also a wolf ... [16:01] <themuffinman|YNWA> there is only one visible link between the two kills that i've seen, other than numerical order. and that's the link i'm proposing we take a look at ... [16:03] <themuffinman|YNWA> my argument is that there is only one logical connection between the two players who have been tactically killed by the wolves ... [16:04] <themuffinman|YNWA> im_lost was seered by the same person who seered lolfighter, assuming that all this was real ... [16:13] <themuffinman|YNWA> mouse - my issue with lolfighter not being a wolf is that the wolves have systimatically began to kill off people who voted for lolfighter ... [16:15] <themuffinman|YNWA> lolfighter is dead, and it's very possible that the person who seered lolfighter also voted for him ... [16:16] <themuffinman|YNWA> it leads us to the possible conclusion that lolfighter was a wolf and the seer was real <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, TMM, I'm not going to go through all the past games right now, but if you'd ever played a wolf, you'd realize that the main weapon the wolves have is misdirection. Wolfing isn't just a weapon to eliminate dangerous players. It's a tool to encourage the humans to lynch each other. In one of the games I was a wolf, I was basically picking all the targets. I intentionally chose a pattern that would lead the humans in the wrong direction.
Well, TMM has pointed out the obvious pattern here. I see one of two scenarios, assuming this pattern is correct:
1) Thansal was telling the truth, and the wolves are going on the assumption that the seer was part of that network, hence are using their early-game wolfings to eliminate every possible seer. This smells mainly of newbie wolves, though with five players on their team, I'd wager at least one is experienced.
2) Thansal was a wolf, and they're using the wolfings to support their original plan, pointing people towards im_lost for the next kill.
Of course, you can think of these Sicilian style (re: Princess Bride) to the Nth level, but those are the two outcomes of this pattern. Now, given that TMM has been very insistent on #1, I'd suggest that if #2 is true, that puts TMM as a wolf. I didn't suspect him before, but I'm leaning in that direction.
When I was a wolf a game or two ago (Damn my memory), and the humans didn't seem to be catching onto the misdirection pattern I'd chosen, I tried to drop subtle hints to point them in the right (wrong) direction. TMM's statements, to me, look like that type of behavior.
Other possibilities:
* Their first kill was for another reason, but they chose the second kill to form this pattern, based on the current arguments, either to point towards TMM's theory or to mine via reverse psychology.
* The psychic and/or guardian revealed themselves to Thansal's "network", and were the first two to be wolfed.
And that's all I can think of at the moment... I'm not sure of TMM by any means, but I'm trying to connect the dots here, so here's some brain food for everyone.
(Oh, and yes, before doomchica says it again... You have to consider the possibility of me being a wolf... I just figure that goes without saying for everyone, unless you're the seer.)
Xentor, you've missed some key quotes in that collection. I don't imagine that it is on purpose, but you've given a completely one-sided view of my argument.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><themuffinman|YNWA> well, if the seer was fake then there is another seer out there with 3 nights worth of seering. lets hope they make the right decision <themuffinman|YNWA> assuming all this was real. if it wasn't then we've got a seer somewhere with 3 confirmed players, and i'd be expecting them to be working behind the scenes and this is all for nothing <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know that it doesn't sound like it adds much, but allow me to explain it:
My argument for lynching im_lost is under the assumption that the seer was real and this was all 100% legitimate. Under those circumstances, my argument is completely valid. Now, i know that that is a major assumption, but hear me out. If the seer was fake, then it stands to reason that there is a real seer out there with a network, and on top of that a psychic who knows whether or not thansal and lolfighter were wolves. So if this whole thing was a complete fake then i sincerely hope that they will make some sort of move before the end of the day. This is a vital part of the game, and i hope that people won't sit on game-changing information just because they are worried about being thrust into the limelight - the guardian is likely still out there, remember.
If that happens, and it is believable, then i'll have to reconsider my entire argument and most likely change my point of view completely. And i will, i've got no problem with that. But until we get any indication that there is a legitimate network out there, i feel that this is the best lead we've got to go on and i'm going to keep my vote on im_lost. And for every day that passes without any such hint of a 'real seer' out there, the stronger i begin to feel that Thansal had the legit seer all along.
Also Xentor, i don't agree with either of your two points. For such an 'obvious pattern', i was the only person who actually thought it was serious enough to warrant bringing up. I imagine that if the wolves were going to lead us around in circles with their kills, then they would choose to be a little less subtle.
And in regards to your first point, you're completely waving away the entire argument because 'that's a newbie thing to do, and odds are the wolves have some good players who would know better'?
Just so you're aware, i've never been a special role or a wolf in any of the games i've played.
If Thansal was fake, we have almost nothing to go on at all... If he was real, we have a target. Until we hear otherwise, I agree it makes some sense to keep an eye on im_lost.
But as for your other points... Someone was bound to notice that not-so-subtle pattern. I hadn't because I've been a bit lazy, and haven't checked vote histories at all this game. I'm not saying it isn't possible that they're following that pattern for your stated reasons, but I'm saying it's at least equally likely that they're doing it to send us in the wrong direction.
Of course, if you ARE a wolf, then you being the first to "notice" the pattern makes perfect sense.
I'm withholding judgement for now, but at least we have at least two sides of some sort of story out there.
Comments
<themuffinman|YNWA> hiya
<themuffinman|YNWA> i'd like to clarify a few points, if you don't mind <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
<Freak83|HUMAN> go ahead
<themuffinman|YNWA> i'm not in contact with the seer. i never have been and i've never said otherwise. slacky misunderstood what has been written
<themuffinman|YNWA> just wanted to get that right out because its causing confusion on the thread <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
<themuffinman|YNWA> if you've got any questions regarding this seer business though, feel free to ask. i'll try to answer to the best of my ability
<Freak83|HUMAN> i do
<themuffinman|YNWA> shoot
<Freak83|HUMAN> generally, can you explain WHAT is going on with the seer thing cause i'm reading different theories from every direction and now TBH with you saying that i'm not quite sure what the deal is with the seer
<themuffinman|YNWA> i'll explain what i know
<themuffinman|YNWA> the seer contacted thansal some time during day 1, with information that lofl was a wolf
<themuffinman|YNWA> thansal contacted me, stating that he was a 3rd party in this. by that time we'd been talking for quite a while which is why i imagine he came to me
<themuffinman|YNWA> this happened after the forum went down. I decided to make it public, then thansal made his post
<themuffinman|YNWA> end of night two he tells me that the seer has found a wolf in im_lost
<themuffinman|YNWA> he then makes the post on the forums. By this time i'd been thinking about whether or not to make it public or go underground and hopefully give the seer time to find another human
<themuffinman|YNWA> but thansal went public so i supported him. thats as far as we've got
<themuffinman|YNWA> but i wouldn't want to vote him out. if this is fake then i doubt it's him doing it, rather the 'seer' playing him. and if it's real then he's our contact with the seer
<themuffinman|YNWA> sorry if that sounds rehearsed, but i think that's about the 10th time i've written that all down <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<Freak83|HUMAN> k i have some new questions coming to mind now
<Freak83|HUMAN> even if you and thansal have been talking, why would he let you in on this at all? still kind of risky isn't it
<themuffinman|YNWA> you'd have to talk to him to find out from the horses mouth, so the speak
<themuffinman|YNWA> but i can give you my take on it
<Freak83|HUMAN> also, what makes you so sure that it's the seer who's a wolf (if it's a fake at all) and not thansal himself
<Freak83|HUMAN> please do
<themuffinman|YNWA> we'd been talking about the game for quite a while, i suppose he trusted me enough with that info. considering if i didn't do anything with it he could pin me as a wolf or atleast a suspect
<themuffinman|YNWA> or maybe he figured that if i was a wolf i'd want to work my way to this 'seer' of his (as i'd know that he's the real deal)
<themuffinman|YNWA> with the 2nd question, it's just a feeling i've got, you know?
<themuffinman|YNWA> he contributes equally with discussions on different topics
<themuffinman|YNWA> he doesn't seem to be forcing me to a conclusion, he doesn't seem to have an agenda
<themuffinman|YNWA> it's the little things, but obviously nothing is for certain
<Freak83|HUMAN> if he's a wolf just trying to have your trust though it's another thing
<Freak83|HUMAN> anyway that clears a lot up for me
<themuffinman|YNWA> np <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
<themuffinman|YNWA> could i ask for your take on this?
<Freak83|HUMAN> as of now i don't have one, i've been trying to figure out what's going on from each perspective so it's just good to know what the different sides are for the moment
<Freak83|HUMAN> i need to think on all this before i can vote
<themuffinman|YNWA> i don't like seeing it as different sides, really. we're all working towards the same goal
<themuffinman|YNWA> but aye, it's a strong allegation so i suppose it is going to split people
<themuffinman|YNWA> i'm off now anyway, won't be on until tomorrow so i'll miss the end of the day
<themuffinman|YNWA> see you on the other side, and good luck with whatever vote you make <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
End result, I'm not convinced that Thansal has indeed been contacted by the Seer. There's a lot of evidence against him. However, if he has then I would rather not vote him off.
So far the only evidence I see on im_lost is what has been said by Thansal, and before I do cast a vote for im_lost I'd like to have a little more than that. Therefore, perhaps to even up the tally a little more I'm voting for <b>Thansal</b>.
Current Tally:
im_lost (5) - Thansal, TheMuffinMan, Harrower, iggymatrixcounter, Zor2
Thansal (4) - Xentor, Ana, im_lost, Freak83
Harrower (1.001) - doomchica, Phantom
Ana (1) - Aldaris
TheMuffinMan (1) - wonedslackystyle
doomchica (1) - Mouse
iggymatrixcounter (1) - microcosm
Yet to vote:
Chakuu
Gwahir
If their votes are equal at the end of the day, one of them is chosen at random.
With that in mind, I vote for <b>Thansal</b>
Current Tally:
im_lost (5) - Thansal, TheMuffinMan, Harrower, iggymatrixcounter, Zor2
Thansal (5) - Xentor, Ana, im_lost, Freak83
Harrower (1.001) - doomchica, Phantom
Ana (1) - Aldaris
TheMuffinMan (1) - wonedslackystyle
doomchica (1) - Mouse
iggymatrixcounter (1) - microcosm
Yet to vote:
Chakuu
Gwahir
Corrected Tally:
Current Tally:
im_lost (5) - Thansal, TheMuffinMan, Harrower, iggymatrixcounter, Zor2
Thansal (5) - Xentor, Ana, im_lost, Freak83, Mouse
Harrower (1.001) - doomchica, Phantom
Ana (1) - Aldaris
TheMuffinMan (1) - wonedslackystyle
iggymatrixcounter (1) - microcosm
Yet to vote:
Chakuu
Gwahir
Okay, so from what I understand there are basically two people worthy of my vote right now: im_lost and thaslan.
At first, I was suspicious of im_lost, mostly because as somebody already mentioned he wasn't able to make any concrete points to defend himself.
However, the more I thought about it, the more uncomfortable I get with Thansal's very open approach right down from day one. I'm new to TWG and to the whole forum politics but from what I understand the seer is our one serious advantage for us, and it is our job to protect him as well as possible.
If I were a seer, my first priority would be to check if someone is human and then contact that person fully convinced that there is no way that person is a wolf and no way that the humans would lose their advantage to a wolf. In this game, things seem to be different...
Thansal's admits that the seer did not check him but checked lolfighter instead and confirmed he is a wolf. This seems really hard for me to accept since it had only been day one and this would mean that the seer had already put his hands into Thansal's by taking a chance on him...
What even bothers me the most is that on the second night, the seer refused to check on Thansal and once again checked up on someone else (I assume im_lost, as the story goes) without still having confrimed that Thansal is a human or not.
Once again, I'm really uncomfortable with this because we're basically putting our hands on Thansal. I mean if the seer hasn't confirmed that Thansal isn't human. How can we?
The way I see it, here are some possibilities:
1) Thansal is the seer, and hence has no reason to check himself... I doubt this, as being the seer I would never jeopardize my position by also acting as an active spokesperson for the group.
2) Thansal is really in contact with the seer but could possibly be a wolf, having gained his trust, which could be very dangerous, as perhaps we have a seer who has taken a big gamble on behalf of the humans...
3) Thansal is really a wolf, and has set up a highly convincing story and has managed to got lucky and kill two humans. (If lolfighter was a wolf, Thansal would never have brought suspicion to him, and would have known that none of the wolves are lovers.)
These are my reasons for suspecting Thansal. I'm not sure he's a wolf or not, but either way I feel like we're taking a big risk trusting Thansal, and my gut feeling is to vote for him.
I vote for <b>Thansal</b>.
im_lost (6) - Thansal, TheMuffinMan, Harrower, iggymatrixcounter, Zor2, Aldaris
Thansal (6) - Xentor, Ana, im_lost, Freak83, Mouse, Chakuu
Harrower (1.001) - doomchica, Phantom
TheMuffinMan (1) - wonedslackystyle
iggymatrixcounter (1) - microcosm
Yet to vote:
Gwahir
im_lost harrower inactivity
iggymatrix muffinman none given
doomchica harrower inactivity, horrible grasp of rules
mouse doomchica coming down hard on harrower
thansal im_lost seer info
harrower im_lost revenge
micr0c0sm iggymatrix none given
aldaris ana none given
slacky muffinman unsure of thansals story, muffinman+thansal working close together
xentor thansal unsure of thansals story
ana thansal unsure of thansals story
iggymatrix im_lost (micr0 editor note: i cant grasp your reason, please explain)
zor2 im_lost believes muffinman is human
mouse thansal evening out the votes
aldaris im_lost evening out the votes
chakuu thansal too risky to place trust in thansal
yet to vote: Gwahir
data
main arguement is thansal+muffinman's story.
some vote on gut feeling.
some calling out the psychic.
analysis
lucky/weak story (immediately trusting seer + 2 wolf kills?), so easy to argue for or against
not sure what calling out the psychic would do at this time.
the main point of contention not factual, but logical. (pm for explanation)
conclusion
if the seer or psychic is alive, the result of this vote will be able to determine ONLY the truth of thans+muffinman's INITIAL INFORMATION. THIS IS MAJOR. Please converse with me so I can clarify the good and bad of what I expect will happen tomorrow. I am having enourmous difficulty in putting it into words, I expect a Q&A will make it much easier for me to communicate.
expect a seer and/or psychic to come out tomorrow no matter what.
tonights gonna be a good night <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->voter | votee | reason
im_lost | harrower | inactivity
iggymatrix | muffinman | none given
doomchica | harrower | inactivity, horrible grasp of rules
mouse | doomchica | coming down hard on harrower
thansal | im_lost | seer info
harrower | im_lost | revenge
micr0c0sm | iggymatrix | none given
aldaris | ana | none given
slacky | muffinman | unsure of thansals story, muffinman+thansal working close together
xentor | thansal | unsure of thansals story
ana | thansal | unsure of thansals story
iggymatrix | im_lost | (micr0 editor note: i cant grasp your reason, please explain)
zor2 | im_lost | believes muffinman is human
mouse | thansal | evening out the votes
aldaris | im_lost | evening out the votes
chakuu | thansal | too risky to place trust in thansal <!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
gwahir is a wolf. waiting to make sure the votes are even, then posting very close to the end to tip the wolves win.
actually now that i think of it any one who voted 'to even the votes' could be a wolf, waiting to switch at last minute.
is that allowed / possible in this game it seems like a kinda major flaw, or just very effective tactic - split the votes, then switch to win. rinse and repeat, sacrifices sure but net positive. im afraid i'll be refreshing until the last minute
Both sides have points on this.
Both sides have flaws in their arguments and both sides have valid arguments
it seems this vote is mine to close.
I have been approached by both sides and both sides want my vote.
All other arguments made equal, my decision errs on the side of probability.
I have difficulty believing that 2 wolves were found on consecutive days out of 18 then 16 people.
<b>Thansal</b>
Thansal (7) - Xentor, Ana, im_lost, Freak83, Mouse, Chakuu, Gwahir
im_lost (6) - Thansal, TheMuffinMan, Harrower, iggymatrixcounter, Zor2, Aldaris
Harrower (1.001) - doomchica, Phantom
TheMuffinMan (1) - wonedslackystyle
iggymatrixcounter (1) - microcosm
<b>im_lost</b>
<b>Aldaris</b> looked at the mess the fallen missile rack had caused in the armoury. Shaking his head, he immediately radioed the bridge...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Despite the recent deaths, the crew of the <i>I/O</i> attempted to resume their everyday duties. On the bridge, <b>Freak83</b> was sitting in the captain's chair, just waiting for something to happen, or else for something to end the relative boredom of the long, long journey. <b>wonedslackystyle</b> obviously thought likewise, as he was napping at the communications station. <b>Harrower</b> was at the helm, as he usually was, and likewise with <b>Xentor</b> at tactical. <b>Chakuu</b> was at the navigator's station, in the absence of Isamil.
As though he read <b>Freak83</b>'s mind, <b>iggymatrixcounter</b> stepped onto the bridge and immediately motioned that he needed to talk to <b>Freak83</b>. <b>Freak83</b> got up and went over to <b>iggymatrixcounter</b>, then asked, "What is it?"
"We have a problem," <b>iggymatrixcounter</b> replied, "Someone's been setting traps all over. I nearly got fried exiting my quarters this morning, and <b>Gwahir</b> got poisoned when he opened one of his drawers in the medical bay."
<b>Freak83</b> was nearly shocked at the last point. "Is he okay?"
<b>iggymatrixcounter</b> nodded his head and stated, "He got lucky, whoever set the trap wasn't too bright; the antidote was just behind it in the exact same drawer."
Just then, the intercom came on and <b>Aldaris</b> spoke, "Armoury to bridge, looks like someone booby-trapped a missile rack. Nobody's hurt, but I need some help cleaning this up." All the while, <b>wonedslackystyle</b> kept sleeping through the message, even when the intercom clicked itself off.
<b>Freak83</b> looked over to <b>iggymatrixcounter</b> and said, "Okay, here's what you're going to do. Go down to the armoury and help <b>Aldaris</b> clean it up. Then-"
"You have to be kidding me," <b>iggymatrixcounter</b> replied, "Can't you get <b>Zor2</b> to..."
"<i>Then</i>..." <b>Freak83</b> continued, "Arm the crew. If you see anyone setting up more traps, arrest them and have them confined to quarters. Get <b>Zor2</b>, <b>TheMuffinMan</b>, and <b>microcosm</b> to help you."
<b>iggymatrixcounter</b> immediately shut up, then stormed off the bridge.
(drip... drip...)
<b>wonedslackystyle</b> groggily woke up at the feel of water splashing on his face. Turning around, he muttered, "Not funny guys, I'm really tired from the double shift." Everyone else just stared at him, wondering what he was talking about. "None of you splashed water on me?" <b>wonedslackystyle</b> felt a few more drops on his head, then realized... <i>'There's a leak in the ceiling?'</i>
<b>Freak83</b> asked <b>Chakuu</b>, "What's going on?"
<b>Chakuu</b> looked at his map, and replied, "From what I can tell, we're right below the Zot River. Either the river runs underground and we're driving through it, or there's a leak aboveground, maybe due to the formation of the tunnel."
<b>Freak83</b> sat down and ordered <b>Harrower</b>, "Keep us going, we can't let a little water stop us."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Down in the engineering section, <b>doomchica</b> and <b>im_lost</b> were performing a systems checkup on the engine components, just to make sure everything was working perfectly. However, neither of them heard the metal groaning above them...
<b>im_lost</b> moved over, and opened the deck to reveal an unshielded power line, which tied the main generator to the engines and the rest of the <i>I/O</i>. Looking up to <b>doomchica</b>, he said, "I'll check the power distribution, go make sure the generator's refilled."
Nodding, <b>doomchica</b> left, leaving <b>im_lost</b> alone, only to be replaced by <b>Thansal</b> a minute later. <b>Thansal</b> asked, "I'm heading to the remaining cargo bay, do you need anything?" <b>im_lost</b> opened his mouth to reply...
It was only then that he heard the groaning of metal under a large weight - and by then it was too late. The engineering section's ceiling split open, and water came pouring through, right over <b>im_lost</b>'s head. <b>Thansal</b> dove to try and push <b>im_lost</b> out of the path of falling water...
<b>Thansal</b> pushed <b>im_lost</b> out of the way, onto the insulated deck. A massive power surge got sent through <b><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->Thansal<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b>'s body through the water, causing him to spark as the generator's feed got sent through him. However, the short circuit drove the full power of the generator into the main engine...
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All over the <i>I/O</i>, everyone was being thrown into the nearest wall as the tank roared to massive speeds, engine whining as though it could explode...
On the bridge, all five people were worried as to what just happened. <b>Freak83</b> shouted to <b>Xentor</b> over the roar of the engine, "<i>What's going on NOW?</i>"
<b>Xentor</b> could only reply, "<i>I don't know!</i>"
<b>Harrower</b> noticed the speed, and with a bit of mental math, he realized... "<i>At this rate, we'll hit Checkpoint Nu in 60 seconds!</i>"
<b>Freak83</b> was both impressed and shocked, "<i>Looks like we're making good time then!</i>"
<b>Harrower</b> obviously felt differently though, and mentioned, "<i>I didn't say we'd <b>reach</b> it, at this speed, we're going to flat-out <b>HIT</b> it!"</i>
<b>wonedslackystyle</b> took the unspoken cue from <b>Harrower</b>'s train of thought, and immediately radioed throughout the <i>I/O</i>, "<i><b>All hands, brace for impact!</i></b>"...
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Wow. Close. Very close. Random.org determined <b>Thansal</b> should die, and so be it.
1. Captain Freak83 [EST]
2. Commander im_lost [PST]
3. Lieutenant Xentor [EST]
4. Lieutenant Chakuu [EST]
5. Lieutenant Gwahir [EST]
6. Lieutenant Zor2 [GMT]
7. Private TheMuffinMan [GMT]
8. Private doomchica [PST]
9. Private Mouse [AEST/GMT+10]
10. Private Aldaris [GMT]
11. Private Harrower [EST] (1 phantom vote)
12. Private iggymatrixcounter [EST]
13. Private microcosm [EST]
14. Private wonedslackystyle [EST]
15. Private Ana [CST]
All roles and humans (if alive) should PM me, and the Psychic (if alive) will be getting a PM shortly.
The night will end <b>Tuesday, Feb. 27th, 8:00 PM EST (5:00 PM PST)</b>.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[18:39] lolfighter: It got close, yes.
[18:39] EMPDemon|Writing: So you wrote the story so it could've gone either way?
[18:39] lolfighter: But a last-minute vote decided it.
[18:39] lolfighter: Yep, I did.
[18:40] lolfighter: Had it been random, I would've left out the last, deciding paragraph.
[18:40] lolfighter: Then posted it fifteen minutes later.
[18:40] lolfighter: Cliffhanger supreme. :>
[18:40] EMPDemon|Writing: Heh.
[18:40] lolfighter: Do that!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You got your wish, lolly <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
"General, we're picking up an unidentified craft coming in by the tunnels. It's <i>fast</i>, sir!" Commander Mondez was watching the radar for any sign of the <i>I/O</i>.
General <b>Theslan</b> walked over to the radar console and asked, "Is it the <i>Insurrection Omega</i>?"
Mondez replied, "There's no way to tell, and at their speed, we won't be able to get the blast doors up in time even if it IS them."
<b>Theslan</b> tried to consider other options, "What about communications?"
Mondez shook his head, "Our transmitter won't reach until they get a lot closer, and by that time..."
<b>Theslan</b> could only hope that the <i>I/O</i> was okay...
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"<i>30 seconds to impact!</i>" <b>Harrower</b> shouted out, over the engine's deafening roar, when all of a sudden... The engine suddenly went silent.
"Are we going to make it?" <b>Freak83</b> found that he could actually move again, and not just pinned to the back of his seat.
"Not at this rate," <b>Harrower</b> replied, "We're still going too fast, and there's no way they'll open their blast doors in time!"
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In the armoury, <b>Aldaris</b> was almost literally stuck between a rock and a hard place; he was pinned between one of the still-mounted missile racks and a fallen rack of light machine guns. Unable to move, the best <b>Aldaris</b> could do was avoid getting crushed by the machine guns...
Meanwhile, <b>Zor2</b>, <b>microcosm</b>, and <b>TheMuffinMan</b>, now able to move, rushed to the topside turret. Without a word, <b>Zor2</b> got into the gunner's seat, while <b>microcosm</b> and <b>TheMuffinMan</b> went into the adjacent ammunition control room. Under normal circumstances, there would be one person in the ammunition control for each turret, but with the crew shortages and the current situation, they would need all the missiles they could get. <b>Zor2</b> immediately armed and fired the pair of missiles already loaded in the tubes...
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Mondez looked at the radar, and noticed a pair of blips coming from the unknown craft. "Missile launch! I repeat, missile launch!"
<b>Theslan</b> shouted over the general intercom, "Evacuate the incoming tunnel door!"
As the troops fled the door the missiles were heading towards, Mondez noticed the IFF for the blip had come into indentifiable range... "Sir, it's the <i>Insurrection Omega</i>, and it looks like they're slowing down!"
<b>Theslan</b> took this as good news, "Are they going to slow down enough for us to open the blast doors?"
Mondez shook his head, "There's no way they could slow down that much, with that kind of momentum."
<b>Theslan</b> suddenly realized what the <i>I/O</i> was trying to do, and then ordered the base, "Prepare arrestor wires for tank configuration! Set tension for double strength! I don't want that thing to crash!"
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On the bridge, <b>Xentor</b> also noticed the missile launch, "Captain! We've got an unauthorized missile launch!"
<b>Freak83</b> decided to ask <b>Xentor</b>, "Is there any chance that the doors will open on their own?"
<b>Xentor</b> thought, then replied simply, "No."
<b>Freak83</b> silently prayed that whoever controlling the missile turret knew what they were doing...
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Without waiting for the first pair of missiles to hit the blast doors, <b>Zor2</b> immediately fired the next pair right after it had been loaded by <b>TheMuffinMan</b> and <b>microcosm</b>. He watched as the first pair of missiles hit, and seemed to have no effect. He fired another pair as soon as it was loaded...
The second pair of missiles hit, then the third. At nearly point-blank range, <b>Zor2</b> fired one final pair of missiles...
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In the interior of Checkpoint Nu, the entire base could see the blast door being blown open, followed by the sight of the <i>I/O</i> rushing forward through the breach, then immediately getting caught on the arrestor wires. The <i>I/O</i> seemed to struggle for a minute against the counter to its speed, then appeared to finally come to a stop.
The sudden stop, however, caused things to reverse in the <i>I/O</i>'s armoury, as <b>Aldaris</b> was thrown back, back against the machine gun rack that was pinning him. Unfortunately, one of the missile racks he was pinned against earlier came loose, and headed straight for him...
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There was an audible sigh of relief on the bridge, and <b>Freak83</b> made a mental note to find out who launched those missiles, possibly saving all of them. <b>wonedslackystyle</b> nearly fainted, but a message from the armoury stopped him, "<b>iggymatrixcounter</b> to Bridge."
<b>wonedslackystyle</b> responded wearily, "Bridge here, what is it?"
<b>iggymatrixcounter</b> only had to say a few words, "<b><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->Aldaris</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> is dead. Crushed by a missile rack. I'm going to need some help down here..."
<b>Freak83</b> stumbled over to the communications console, and replied over the ship, "<b>Freak83</b> to all hands, we've reached Checkpoint Nu. Our objective for now is to get the <i>I/O</i> back to working order, as fast as possible. I want everyone to help out however they can to accomplish this. <b>Freak83</b> out."
<b>Freak83</b> turned and started to walk away, when the communications console clicked back on. On the other end, he could hear <b>Theslan</b>'s voice, "Checkpoint Nu to <i>Insurrection Omega</i>... Next time, how about you knock before you blow open our front door?" There was a bit of laughter on the other end, and the five people on the bridge lightly chuckled as well, before immediately locking down systems and leaving the bridge to start repairs...
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1. Captain Freak83 [EST]
2. Commander im_lost [PST]
3. Lieutenant Xentor [EST]
4. Lieutenant Chakuu [EST]
5. Lieutenant Gwahir [EST]
6. Lieutenant Zor2 [GMT]
7. Private TheMuffinMan [GMT]
8. Private doomchica [PST]
9. Private Mouse [AEST/GMT+10]
10. Private Harrower [EST] (1 phantom vote)
11. Private iggymatrixcounter [EST]
12. Private microcosm [EST]
13. Private wonedslackystyle [EST]
14. Private Ana [CST]
The day will end <b>Thursday, Mar. 1st, 8:00 PM EST (5:00 PM PST)</b>
Instalynch is at 8, or 7 + 1 phantom vote.
Ok let's start on why Aldaris was killed. I never spoke to the guy so any of my theories can be based off what's written in the thread. So far I don't see any pattern in terms of killing experienced or inexperienced players since Isamil died last night (experienced) and now Aldaris tonight (first game here, did he play elsewhere?)
Unless it's just to cause general confusion anyhow.
Look at the original players list. It's inconclusive since there have only been two kills but it is a pattern.
Aldaris was one of the people evening out votes. Perhaps the wolves were thanking him w/ death! Heh. So like them. The other players evening out votes may have been wolves and as such the wolfed Aldaris to draw attention away from those votes. ...or to them.
He hasn't had much activity in the game... One bandwagon vote early on. Some talk about how unlikely the circumstances of the game are. A random unexplained vote for Ana. Then another unexplained vote for im_lost.
This could be another reason for wolfing him. Not much activity to go on and therefore more of us spinning our wheels.
1) The vigilante somehow missed that it is a secret role. If you got sent the role human, you might actually be the vigilante and now know it. Yes, really.
2) The guardian is awesome and has prevented double kills the last two nights. Hopefully from the wolves.
3) The vigilante knows that they <i>could</i> be the vigilante and isn't testing it out anyway.
4) The vigilante is dead. Whoops!
Whee! Autoappend!
<!--quoteo(post=1609931:date=Feb 28 2007, 01:35 AM:name=doomchica)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(doomchica @ Feb 28 2007, 01:35 AM) [snapback]1609931[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1) The vigilante somehow missed that it is a secret role. If you got sent the role human, you might actually be the vigilante and now know it. Yes, really.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->now -> not
<!--quoteo(post=1609517:date=Feb 26 2007, 02:35 PM:name=iggymatrixcounter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(iggymatrixcounter @ Feb 26 2007, 02:35 PM) [snapback]1609517[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
enough time has passed for the psychic to step up if there has been evidence of foul play. For now I'm going to just go with <b> im_lost </b>
I talked with him a little bit too, and he wasn't at all trying to say there was evidence of anything wrong, if the roles were switched, you would bet that I would be trying to do as much discrediting and mouthing out that something was up but he seemed to be taking it from our perspective that it could go either way and that is enough to confirm to me that there's no wirries as of now.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now, a lot of you have played plenty of games with me. Does that seem like how I would play, doing as much as I can to discredit others to defend myself (Theslan, you could give feedback from how our discussion went last game, when you were deciding which side to take)? More to the point, doesn't that seem more like the desperate behavior that a wolf would have, making as many discrediting comments as possible, compared to a human (with no special role) that could accept their death and recognize that the humans still have more time? I realize us humans have to work quickly in this game to find and kill the werewolves, but it still seems that it would make more sense to expect irrationalness (I thought I was making up a word here, apparently it's actually in the dictionary) from a werewolf.
Therefore, I place my vote on <b>iggymatrixcounter</b>. It's certainly not very conclusive evidence, so my vote is open to being changed.
As far as Im_lost is concerned, yes I do not know how you play as a twger. But like I've either said to you or the thread, if our roles were reversed, then as a human I would know that something is up and would warn the humans as much as possible about what was going down. You seemed open to the idea that thansal could be legit or manipulated. (You didn't consider him being a wolf if I do remember our conversation)
Sorry if that's not how you play. Maybe if it was, there wouldn't be as big of a confusion over who's seering who this game.
I'm still mad that vigi kill isn't apparent yet. This whole thansal, muffin / im_lost, lol situation would have been over if the vigi kills were used and we would almost be garanteed at least two wolves rather than maybe 1 so far. (assuming these two pairs in question are on opposing sides, which I think is a good conclusion.)
My biggest suspicion now is micro. (along with others who flip-flopped yesterday but his was the one that changed the kill) I want to know why he changed his vote from im_lost to thansal right at the last second. There would have to be some big piece of evidence that would make me take the game into my own hands like that and I want to know why it happened.
In terms of a possible connection between the two kills - both voted for lolfighter on day one. Assuming that lolf was a wolf, then i think it's fair to say that they've been seeking out the seer.
I was hoping that perhaps some new information would come to light today (the psychic, for instance, will have solid evidence regarding the last two people to be lynched). However, nothing has come up and so i'm forced to go back to yesterdays events. The wolfing of two players who voted for lolfighter tells me that those two were on to something. And if the first seering was legitimate, then the chances are good that the second seering was also legitimate. With that in mind, i am voting once again for <b>im_lost</b>.
As i said, an anonymous contact would be more than i'd hope for - i've got no intention of tricking you. A chat is all i'm asking for.
[b]Harrower[\b]
Mainly because it is unlikely that he will get voted off and I'll change my vote if I find reason enough to.
Also, Muffin, I was under the impression that all 3 human roles were already talking. Could've just been rumour (a little game of internet telephone perhaps) but could you fill us in on how many of these roles are talking? No names needed. Or did I misinterpret your post and all 3 are talking, just not with you?
<b>Harrower </b>
fixed
Correct me if I'm wrong, but according to Thansal's claims from yesterday, only his "seer" was involved (I'm still not 100% sure whether he was legit). If you subscribe to my possible theory from yesterday, then his "seer" was fake, but the psychic may have been Isamil (Just a possible theory, not a fact).
As far as I know, no mention has been made (Well, in public, at least) of the guardian... And the vigilante is still nowhere to be found (Most likely either dead or still unaware of his role).
I hate to say it, but with the lack of communication from any roles (Unless of course I'm out of the loop), the seer and psychic may both be dead. The seer may be building a network in secret (Or may just not have anyone to trust yet), but the psychic can't do any harm by anonymously tipping us as to his results. The guardian has no reason to come forward without a trustworthy human network, so is quite possibly out there somewhere.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
[15:54] <PS_M|Away> I'm actually suprised that no-one has leapt on what me and micro did and accused us of being wolves yet
[15:54] <themuffinman|YNWA> why bother when we've already got a wolf in our sights? :/
[15:55] <PS_M|Away> who's this?
[15:55] <themuffinman|YNWA> im_lost, as far as i'm concerned
...
[15:56] <themuffinman|YNWA> with both kills suggesting that lolfighter was a wolf, it stands to reason that im_lost is also a wolf
...
[16:01] <themuffinman|YNWA> there is only one visible link between the two kills that i've seen, other than numerical order. and that's the link i'm proposing we take a look at
...
[16:03] <themuffinman|YNWA> my argument is that there is only one logical connection between the two players who have been tactically killed by the wolves
...
[16:04] <themuffinman|YNWA> im_lost was seered by the same person who seered lolfighter, assuming that all this was real
...
[16:13] <themuffinman|YNWA> mouse - my issue with lolfighter not being a wolf is that the wolves have systimatically began to kill off people who voted for lolfighter
...
[16:15] <themuffinman|YNWA> lolfighter is dead, and it's very possible that the person who seered lolfighter also voted for him
...
[16:16] <themuffinman|YNWA> it leads us to the possible conclusion that lolfighter was a wolf and the seer was real
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, TMM, I'm not going to go through all the past games right now, but if you'd ever played a wolf, you'd realize that the main weapon the wolves have is misdirection. Wolfing isn't just a weapon to eliminate dangerous players. It's a tool to encourage the humans to lynch each other. In one of the games I was a wolf, I was basically picking all the targets. I intentionally chose a pattern that would lead the humans in the wrong direction.
Well, TMM has pointed out the obvious pattern here. I see one of two scenarios, assuming this pattern is correct:
1) Thansal was telling the truth, and the wolves are going on the assumption that the seer was part of that network, hence are using their early-game wolfings to eliminate every possible seer. This smells mainly of newbie wolves, though with five players on their team, I'd wager at least one is experienced.
2) Thansal was a wolf, and they're using the wolfings to support their original plan, pointing people towards im_lost for the next kill.
Of course, you can think of these Sicilian style (re: Princess Bride) to the Nth level, but those are the two outcomes of this pattern. Now, given that TMM has been very insistent on #1, I'd suggest that if #2 is true, that puts TMM as a wolf. I didn't suspect him before, but I'm leaning in that direction.
When I was a wolf a game or two ago (Damn my memory), and the humans didn't seem to be catching onto the misdirection pattern I'd chosen, I tried to drop subtle hints to point them in the right (wrong) direction. TMM's statements, to me, look like that type of behavior.
Other possibilities:
* Their first kill was for another reason, but they chose the second kill to form this pattern, based on the current arguments, either to point towards TMM's theory or to mine via reverse psychology.
* The psychic and/or guardian revealed themselves to Thansal's "network", and were the first two to be wolfed.
And that's all I can think of at the moment... I'm not sure of TMM by any means, but I'm trying to connect the dots here, so here's some brain food for everyone.
(Oh, and yes, before doomchica says it again... You have to consider the possibility of me being a wolf... I just figure that goes without saying for everyone, unless you're the seer.)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><themuffinman|YNWA> well, if the seer was fake then there is another seer out there with 3 nights worth of seering. lets hope they make the right decision
<themuffinman|YNWA> assuming all this was real. if it wasn't then we've got a seer somewhere with 3 confirmed players, and i'd be expecting them to be working behind the scenes and this is all for nothing <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know that it doesn't sound like it adds much, but allow me to explain it:
My argument for lynching im_lost is under the assumption that the seer was real and this was all 100% legitimate. Under those circumstances, my argument is completely valid. Now, i know that that is a major assumption, but hear me out.
If the seer was fake, then it stands to reason that there is a real seer out there with a network, and on top of that a psychic who knows whether or not thansal and lolfighter were wolves. So if this whole thing was a complete fake then i sincerely hope that they will make some sort of move before the end of the day. This is a vital part of the game, and i hope that people won't sit on game-changing information just because they are worried about being thrust into the limelight - the guardian is likely still out there, remember.
If that happens, and it is believable, then i'll have to reconsider my entire argument and most likely change my point of view completely. And i will, i've got no problem with that. But until we get any indication that there is a legitimate network out there, i feel that this is the best lead we've got to go on and i'm going to keep my vote on im_lost. And for every day that passes without any such hint of a 'real seer' out there, the stronger i begin to feel that Thansal had the legit seer all along.
Also Xentor, i don't agree with either of your two points. For such an 'obvious pattern', i was the only person who actually thought it was serious enough to warrant bringing up. I imagine that if the wolves were going to lead us around in circles with their kills, then they would choose to be a little less subtle.
And in regards to your first point, you're completely waving away the entire argument because 'that's a newbie thing to do, and odds are the wolves have some good players who would know better'?
Just so you're aware, i've never been a special role or a wolf in any of the games i've played.
If Thansal was fake, we have almost nothing to go on at all... If he was real, we have a target. Until we hear otherwise, I agree it makes some sense to keep an eye on im_lost.
But as for your other points... Someone was bound to notice that not-so-subtle pattern. I hadn't because I've been a bit lazy, and haven't checked vote histories at all this game. I'm not saying it isn't possible that they're following that pattern for your stated reasons, but I'm saying it's at least equally likely that they're doing it to send us in the wrong direction.
Of course, if you ARE a wolf, then you being the first to "notice" the pattern makes perfect sense.
I'm withholding judgement for now, but at least we have at least two sides of some sort of story out there.