<!--quoteo(post=1619272:date=Apr 6 2007, 04:59 AM:name=TrueVeritas)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TrueVeritas @ Apr 6 2007, 04:59 AM) [snapback]1619272[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> It seems like every solution to your problem ends up with the only viable option: Random the teams each game. And every time this comes up, nearly everyone agrees that this wouldn't really be a good solution since most of the time players want to play with their friends.
So unless you can think of any other brilliant solution, I offer the same advice: Stop whining about how you think the game is unbalanced for bad players, and make an attempt to play better.
...
Please smood, seek out some assistance. There are plenty of friendly players that wouldn't mind teaching you how to be a better skulk, so you wouldn't have to come here every day and post on how you're so ###### about how people are better than you are.
PS - NS is dying because it's old, not because of stacking marines. QQ
9. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm going to resist the temptation to analyze your attempts at bettering my skill.
Due to a lack of transitions, I'm going to have to assume that this entire post is a response to my post, which naturally was written by me. Yet, for some odd reason you address "me" or rather, the author, as smood. Why do you seek to dispove all of his points so much that you confused other players with him? Where is this personal vendetta of yours going?
Oh and I love it how you assume that any stack has to be marine oriented.
Re-read my post. I never offer a solution. Your unnatural assumption that "F4tManMGS2 = SmoodCroozn" leads you to assume that I hold certain beliefs, which, if you read my other posts throughout this forum, you would obviously see I don't hold.
The "problem" as I see it doesn't come as-so-much from people playing with friends and that sort of stuff; that has some merit, so I can give you it. The problem as I see it is when people join a random pub, with people in there, and see ZOMG MARINES ARE DOMINATING F1 F1. Then there's the case ZOMG BETA TESTER ON ALIENS F2 F2. That sort of ish doesn't help the game. My "solution" henceforth is that when you join a game and you see that some NSPUBALLSTAR clan has joined a team, join the other one.
As an aside, I'm sure all of you at some point have played in one of the 10v10 servers. Just wondering: how many times have you seen the game start at 10v10 with one side dominating and end at 10v3? Where did those other 7 go typically? When I've seen it, they sure as hell aren't in the ready room. Server population goes from 20 -> 13, with 7 obvious ragequitters. Is that helping NS?
Oh, and x5; that statement is misleading a little. At the time, I did quit NS for about 6 months to a year; it was a while ago and I can't remember. I ended up taking it back up again for a month or two, only to leave regular NS in favor of combat crap and eventually the epitome of "bad NS": seige maps.
<!--quoteo(post=1619319:date=Apr 6 2007, 11:24 AM:name=F4tManMGS2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F4tManMGS2 @ Apr 6 2007, 11:24 AM) [snapback]1619319[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I'm going to resist the temptation to analyze your attempts at bettering my skill.
Due to a lack of transitions, I'm going to have to assume that this entire post is a response to my post, which naturally was written by me. Yet, for some odd reason you address "me" or rather, the author, as smood. Why do you seek to dispove all of his points so much that you confused other players with him? Where is this personal vendetta of yours going?
Oh and I love it how you assume that any stack has to be marine oriented.
Re-read my post. I never offer a solution. Your unnatural assumption that "F4tManMGS2 = SmoodCroozn" leads you to assume that I hold certain beliefs, which, if you read my other posts throughout this forum, you would obviously see I don't hold.
The "problem" as I see it doesn't come as-so-much from people playing with friends and that sort of stuff; that has some merit, so I can give you it. The problem as I see it is when people join a random pub, with people in there, and see ZOMG MARINES ARE DOMINATING F1 F1. Then there's the case ZOMG BETA TESTER ON ALIENS F2 F2. That sort of ish doesn't help the game. My "solution" henceforth is that when you join a game and you see that some NSPUBALLSTAR clan has joined a team, join the other one.
As an aside, I'm sure all of you at some point have played in one of the 10v10 servers. Just wondering: how many times have you seen the game start at 10v10 with one side dominating and end at 10v3? Where did those other 7 go typically? When I've seen it, they sure as hell aren't in the ready room. Server population goes from 20 -> 13, with 7 obvious ragequitters. Is that helping NS?
Oh, and x5; that statement is misleading a little. At the time, I did quit NS for about 6 months to a year; it was a while ago and I can't remember. I ended up taking it back up again for a month or two, only to leave regular NS in favor of combat crap and eventually the epitome of "bad NS": seige maps. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My post started out aimed at you, but then focused back onto smoodcroozn. The solution you offer would be great in theory, but in practice, people just want to play with their friends (whether they are good or bad). The biggest piece of advice I have is to stop playing on servers like g4b2s and I-AM clan - those servers are completely devoid of any strategy whatsoever and just end up being, like you said, cannon fodder for experienced players. On TG, there's at least SOME teamwork, but on G4b2s, it's simply too hectic to focus on a singular strat. Smoodcroozn, I know you said it yourself: you want NS to take more strategy than skill. STOP playing on those 20+ man servers, and go play on TG. You'll learn something.
<!--quoteo(post=1619248:date=Apr 6 2007, 08:00 AM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ Apr 6 2007, 08:00 AM) [snapback]1619248[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Skill level placement is done in SEK2000's server, so yes, it is a reality. People have told what has happened to them, but it's just one method someone used to counter stacking. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If by that you mean anyone who's good enough to win public games by themselves can't join a team because it gives them a points rating worth about 7-8 of the regulars there...
And smood don't bash comp NS until you've either 1. Played it seriously or 2. Watched a few of the major matches. And it really isn't that hard to find them 2 simple channels, #findnsscrim on gamesurge and #ns.search on quakenet.
Comp NS is a joke. You could remove it, and NS would still live. But if you remove pub NS, it dies. Click refresh servers. That's pubs. That's NS. The day you lose this, NS dies. Comp NS is far too insignificant to represent the NS community.
I understand SEK's system can have flaws. However, I'm saying that's one way to do it. I would modify it to split the top 2 or so players on different teams and have the rest of the players join as they wish.
TGplayer eh? Last time I saw this server, it had 32 slots and had 5 marines against 20 bot aliens. But no, I'm not going to limit myself to one server and pretend that stacking doesn't exist. I want the action in larger servers.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Comp NS is a joke. You could remove it, and NS would still live. But if you remove pub NS, it dies. Click refresh servers. That's pubs. That's NS. The day you lose this, NS dies. Comp NS is far too insignificant to represent the NS community.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
the key to a solid game is the equillibrium of both pub play and competetive play, at least that's my belief.
You could remove competitive CS and the game wouldn't crumble either. What is your point?
This is mine: The size and growth of the public community will effect the size and growth of the competitive community, competitive is yes dependant on public support but to say it's insignificant is plain stupid. Removing competitive CS you'd probably lose at best 1/3 of your community, what you also lose however is the shed load of revenue that comes from e-sports, a massively growing phenomen. Any game developer would be wise to try and cash in on it where possible.
A thriving competitive scene shows the depth of a game and is an important part in the road of success. It shows your game has longevity, depth and is absorbing. It also shows several other things, all words that are escaping me right now. The size of CS's competitive scene is one of it's greatest achievements, it's a game dominating e-sports despite being older than NS and on the same engine. It says just as much about the quality of the game as the 100000 servers filled with people. Personally I'd say it shows more, but that's just cause it shows the game has the qualities that I look for, they're maybe not what you'd want, I do enjoy self-improvement.
<!--quoteo(post=1619339:date=Apr 6 2007, 01:34 PM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ Apr 6 2007, 01:34 PM) [snapback]1619339[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Comp NS is a joke. You could remove it, and NS would still live. But if you remove pub NS, it dies. Click refresh servers. That's pubs. That's NS. The day you lose this, NS dies. Comp NS is far too insignificant to represent the NS community. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Who said anything about it being insignificant? All I'm saying is that if you tried it out, you'd get better. Why are you bashing it when you clearly know nothing about it?
<!--quoteo(post=1619339:date=Apr 6 2007, 01:34 PM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ Apr 6 2007, 01:34 PM) [snapback]1619339[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> TGplayer eh? Last time I saw this server, it had 32 slots and had 5 marines against 20 bot aliens. But no, I'm not going to limit myself to one server and pretend that stacking doesn't exist. I want the action in larger servers. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, they do 15 minute combat to fill up the server.
<!--quoteo(post=1619297:date=Apr 6 2007, 10:04 AM:name=TheAdj)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TheAdj @ Apr 6 2007, 10:04 AM) [snapback]1619297[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> You don't run scrims/pugs off listenservers. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Why not? I can run a low ping server just fine thank you.
<!--quoteo(post=1619377:date=Apr 6 2007, 11:50 PM:name=the_x5)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(the_x5 @ Apr 6 2007, 11:50 PM) [snapback]1619377[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Why not? I can run a low ping server just fine thank you. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well then congrats to you for having dedicated line that can handle 12 players without lagging whilst you are downloading as well. But the majority of people on the standard Xkbps/256kbps cannot host more than a 8 person server and thus cannot hsot a 12 person listen server for pcws/gathers/scrims/pugs
<!--quoteo(post=1619339:date=Apr 6 2007, 03:34 PM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ Apr 6 2007, 03:34 PM) [snapback]1619339[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Comp NS is a joke. You could remove it, and NS would still live. But if you remove pub NS, it dies. Click refresh servers. That's pubs. That's NS. The day you lose this, NS dies. Comp NS is far too insignificant to represent the NS community. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you're saying that we should try to balance NS around gameplay where, as you seem to see it, the marine team is always stacked? Why wouldn't we try to balance it using statistics from where the average skill on both teams is equal? To say that competitive NS is a joke is just admitting that you know nothing about it.
Really just learn to play a tad better and perhaps you wont have a problem getting shot-up / chewed-up.
For some reason other games have survived the stacking, <b>especially</b> Counter-Strike in all of its craptastic glory. If people want to join a team with their clanmate because they'd rather play with people they know will listen, cooperate, and get their back, then let them. Don't force someone to play on a team they know sucks because then you are just taking fun away from <b>that</b> person to spare it for someone else.
There is no equilibrium for any FPS. Never has been, never will be - not ever. The stronger players will kill the weaker ones and continue to do so, just as natural selection implies.
The game's dying because it runs on a stone-age engine and people just simply don't care much for Half Life MODS these days.
<!--quoteo(post=1619339:date=Apr 6 2007, 02:34 PM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ Apr 6 2007, 02:34 PM) [snapback]1619339[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Comp NS is a joke. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> you're the joke you make these forums entertaining
TIME is killing NS. It's a 3rd party mod that is 3+ years old -- based on a ... what--6,7 years old engine? (/me looks it up and finds Nov 1998 as original release date) that was itself based on the original Quake engine (minus the network from Quake 2). In game terms, that's OLD.
People get tired of the same thing after a while and new players are looking for HL2 mods. Even CS is slowly dying, but it had such an incredibly huge player base that it won't die quickly.
That's just what happens. NS today is much more polished today than it was 2 years ago. Take those lessons and make us NS2!
This is to be read with the following music in the backround: <a href="http://myweb.cableone.net/drfurious/reflect/" target="_blank">http://myweb.cableone.net/drfurious/reflect/</a>
1. Make oc's cost one resource so that players have more incentive to drop them game after game with no incentive to get better. Add in a "red alert" effect when gorges around ocs die, because that's impossible and the game has obviously been broken.
2. Make cloaking permanent, no exceptions. Starts the instant the skulk spawns. This accomplishes a) Aliens can beat marines and b) Encourages rich, challenging ambushes that both teams can gain a sense of accomplishment from.
3. Force blockscripts on all servers. This will hinder all of the pro players who macro anyway, and victimize bunnyhop/quickswitch alien scripters. Thus the gap between marines and aliens is decreased. +movement is a regression backward, as it is an obvious script made by the devs that exploits the way the devs intended the game to be played.
4. Remove medpacks and ammopacks. They hinder aliens who have patiently baited, and have moved in for easy kills, instead of challenging themselves and contributing to an actual ambush, thus overall hurting the dynamic (see: fun) aspect of the game. This ought to be rock paper scissors, after all.
5. Remake every map into ns_stargate. It's the new ns_siege007, and admins love it. When the game inevtiably ends in a server crash for the 8000th time, code a plugin that has the administrators reconnect and say "damned steam".
6. Everyone in the community needs to realize that each individual pub remains in a vacuum. For server owners, it is their server and their monetary investment equivalent of working a real job for two hours equates to police powers over the internet. See Congress for your state's laws on copyright enfridgement and internet domain (an absolutely clever pun of "eminent domain" put on the books by Bush and Karl Rove). For pubbers, this means that marines are overpowered because when they get uranium ammunition level 60, the game becomes unbalanced and discriminates against redemption onos, which should be the end all be all. The only people we can possibly blame for fostering unbalanced gameplay, after all, are the devs. Especially grepdash.
Thoughts?? I was going to make a thread called "do this or a bomb wiping out unknownworlds.com will go off", but I thought it fit better here.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
For early games, I find it realistic if Skulks were too "Camoflauge" (sp) intensive enough so that they are not easily spotted. Right now it is to easy to see a skulk hiding upon a bacterium textured ceiling - and of course of the raised gamma settings. But it is not me to decide whats good or not.
For me, though I like +movement, I would sacrifice that, if Marines were to get medpack beaming removed and have them as healspray'ish tools. Y'know, like the Medic from TFC.
As for doomsday talking <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> :
I'm just a dust particle in the community, but I've played tons of games and so far, NS stands on place numero uno for being a great teamplay game based on scifi elements. CS and DoD also used to have some sort of teamplay but that was killed by the team being replaced by some arcade freaks - at least that was my impression.
NS has a lot of potential for which I hope to be expanded. Its great to see devs reading - so all I can say is to keep the classic NS as it is and bring an "advanced classic" (as NS2 just might be) <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
I don't think NS is "dying" at all. There are many players out there who never heard of it, but when they do, they get more interested into playing. At least for the german newbie players, they read the ns wiki articles and seemed amazed at all the stuff. But okay, "what is EU?" <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
Sorry for bad lingual expressions. Just wanted to toss this in.
<!--fonto:Impact--><span style="font-family:Impact"><!--/fonto--><!--sizeo:7--><span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->I QUIT THIS GAME NO COMEBACKS IT'S BEEN FUN. <!--coloro:#CC0000--><span style="color:#CC0000"><!--/coloro-->NOT.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--fontc--></span><!--/fontc--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
This is without a doubt the last nail in NS's coffin.
Well, you'd just have a system that divides that player and the next best player on seperate teams. If the best player is leagues beyond the next player... Well, there's not much you can do.
stacking occurs in every game. People stack in CS and its not dead. Just face it, NS is an old game thats slowly phasing out along with other hl1 games. Most of the people who played NS have moved onto college our of their parents basement and the rate at which new players pick up and stay with NS is pretty small.
stacking isn't that bad though, just practice tbh. I only play marines on pubs anyways though so i don't care whose on what team because I'm always on the marine team thus stacking doesn't affect my enjoyment of the game.
<u>Stacking is not a problem, practice tbh? </u> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" /><img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
Do you want to be part of the stacking or do you want to help solve it? Stacking IS a problem for pubs. And yes, it indeed kills the fun. Balance the teams so that both parties get their share of beginners and 'pro's, and you will get a different kind of game.
Classic games CAN be fun. If the teams get balanced, you can have 30 min+ games that are realy good and actually you will find them 'funny'. Keep it the way it is, and you will find 90% of these games boring because after 3 minutes you've seen all there is too see. These are then the games with rage-quitting, F4-laming and wtj, if possible. I see the game has it's own balance, but on pubs, the real balance has to come from the players, not the game.
And yes, stacking as well occurs in CS, but CS round are usually shorter than NS rounds. And waiting for your team to loose is not what you want to do on a public NS round.
The future of this game starts in the head of each player.
<!--quoteo(post=1620152:date=Apr 10 2007, 05:38 PM:name=Emanon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Emanon @ Apr 10 2007, 05:38 PM) [snapback]1620152[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> What about the 1 player stack, most of the time it just takes one good player to offset the balance of a pub game.
Usually that one player also makes the rest around them better and then it seems like a stack. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's correct. And also the point where i say: If there is no one able to compensate you in the other team, you simply have to wait in the RR or come back later. I won't allow one person to spoil the game for 19 others only because he is that strong....
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited April 2007
<!--quoteo(post=1619582:date=Apr 8 2007, 02:37 PM:name=MrBen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MrBen @ Apr 8 2007, 02:37 PM) [snapback]1619582[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I can't find the template but:
<!--fonto:Impact--><span style="font-family:Impact"><!--/fonto--><!--sizeo:7--><span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->I QUIT THIS GAME NO COMEBACKS IT'S BEEN FUN. <!--coloro:#CC0000--><span style="color:#CC0000"><!--/coloro-->NOT.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--fontc--></span><!--/fontc--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
This is without a doubt the last nail in NS's coffin. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro--><b><!--sizeo:7--><span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->nooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Comparing top NS players with Peter Forsberg is a bit... heh. Yeah. I'm sure I don't have to say it.
Yeah well I'd be happy if I got to play with some division two or one floorball players (in floorball) too, because I know I'd learn from it and get better. You get the point.
Comments
It seems like every solution to your problem ends up with the only viable option: Random the teams each game. And every time this comes up, nearly everyone agrees that this wouldn't really be a good solution since most of the time players want to play with their friends.
So unless you can think of any other brilliant solution, I offer the same advice: Stop whining about how you think the game is unbalanced for bad players, and make an attempt to play better.
...
Please smood, seek out some assistance. There are plenty of friendly players that wouldn't mind teaching you how to be a better skulk, so you wouldn't have to come here every day and post on how you're so ###### about how people are better than you are.
PS - NS is dying because it's old, not because of stacking marines. QQ
9.
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I'm going to resist the temptation to analyze your attempts at bettering my skill.
Due to a lack of transitions, I'm going to have to assume that this entire post is a response to my post, which naturally was written by me. Yet, for some odd reason you address "me" or rather, the author, as smood. Why do you seek to dispove all of his points so much that you confused other players with him? Where is this personal vendetta of yours going?
Oh and I love it how you assume that any stack has to be marine oriented.
Re-read my post. I never offer a solution. Your unnatural assumption that "F4tManMGS2 = SmoodCroozn" leads you to assume that I hold certain beliefs, which, if you read my other posts throughout this forum, you would obviously see I don't hold.
The "problem" as I see it doesn't come as-so-much from people playing with friends and that sort of stuff; that has some merit, so I can give you it. The problem as I see it is when people join a random pub, with people in there, and see ZOMG MARINES ARE DOMINATING F1 F1. Then there's the case ZOMG BETA TESTER ON ALIENS F2 F2. That sort of ish doesn't help the game. My "solution" henceforth is that when you join a game and you see that some NSPUBALLSTAR clan has joined a team, join the other one.
As an aside, I'm sure all of you at some point have played in one of the 10v10 servers. Just wondering: how many times have you seen the game start at 10v10 with one side dominating and end at 10v3? Where did those other 7 go typically? When I've seen it, they sure as hell aren't in the ready room. Server population goes from 20 -> 13, with 7 obvious ragequitters. Is that helping NS?
Oh, and x5; that statement is misleading a little. At the time, I did quit NS for about 6 months to a year; it was a while ago and I can't remember. I ended up taking it back up again for a month or two, only to leave regular NS in favor of combat crap and eventually the epitome of "bad NS": seige maps.
I'm going to resist the temptation to analyze your attempts at bettering my skill.
Due to a lack of transitions, I'm going to have to assume that this entire post is a response to my post, which naturally was written by me. Yet, for some odd reason you address "me" or rather, the author, as smood. Why do you seek to dispove all of his points so much that you confused other players with him? Where is this personal vendetta of yours going?
Oh and I love it how you assume that any stack has to be marine oriented.
Re-read my post. I never offer a solution. Your unnatural assumption that "F4tManMGS2 = SmoodCroozn" leads you to assume that I hold certain beliefs, which, if you read my other posts throughout this forum, you would obviously see I don't hold.
The "problem" as I see it doesn't come as-so-much from people playing with friends and that sort of stuff; that has some merit, so I can give you it. The problem as I see it is when people join a random pub, with people in there, and see ZOMG MARINES ARE DOMINATING F1 F1. Then there's the case ZOMG BETA TESTER ON ALIENS F2 F2. That sort of ish doesn't help the game. My "solution" henceforth is that when you join a game and you see that some NSPUBALLSTAR clan has joined a team, join the other one.
As an aside, I'm sure all of you at some point have played in one of the 10v10 servers. Just wondering: how many times have you seen the game start at 10v10 with one side dominating and end at 10v3? Where did those other 7 go typically? When I've seen it, they sure as hell aren't in the ready room. Server population goes from 20 -> 13, with 7 obvious ragequitters. Is that helping NS?
Oh, and x5; that statement is misleading a little. At the time, I did quit NS for about 6 months to a year; it was a while ago and I can't remember. I ended up taking it back up again for a month or two, only to leave regular NS in favor of combat crap and eventually the epitome of "bad NS": seige maps.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My post started out aimed at you, but then focused back onto smoodcroozn. The solution you offer would be great in theory, but in practice, people just want to play with their friends (whether they are good or bad). The biggest piece of advice I have is to stop playing on servers like g4b2s and I-AM clan - those servers are completely devoid of any strategy whatsoever and just end up being, like you said, cannon fodder for experienced players. On TG, there's at least SOME teamwork, but on G4b2s, it's simply too hectic to focus on a singular strat. Smoodcroozn, I know you said it yourself: you want NS to take more strategy than skill. STOP playing on those 20+ man servers, and go play on TG. You'll learn something.
Skill level placement is done in SEK2000's server, so yes, it is a reality. People have told what has happened to them, but it's just one method someone used to counter stacking.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If by that you mean anyone who's good enough to win public games by themselves can't join a team because it gives them a points rating worth about 7-8 of the regulars there...
And smood don't bash comp NS until you've either 1. Played it seriously or 2. Watched a few of the major matches. And it really isn't that hard to find them 2 simple channels, #findnsscrim on gamesurge and #ns.search on quakenet.
I understand SEK's system can have flaws. However, I'm saying that's one way to do it. I would modify it to split the top 2 or so players on different teams and have the rest of the players join as they wish.
TGplayer eh? Last time I saw this server, it had 32 slots and had 5 marines against 20 bot aliens. But no, I'm not going to limit myself to one server and pretend that stacking doesn't exist. I want the action in larger servers.
the key to a solid game is the equillibrium of both pub play and competetive play, at least that's my belief.
This is mine: The size and growth of the public community will effect the size and growth of the competitive community, competitive is yes dependant on public support but to say it's insignificant is plain stupid. Removing competitive CS you'd probably lose at best 1/3 of your community, what you also lose however is the shed load of revenue that comes from e-sports, a massively growing phenomen. Any game developer would be wise to try and cash in on it where possible.
A thriving competitive scene shows the depth of a game and is an important part in the road of success. It shows your game has longevity, depth and is absorbing. It also shows several other things, all words that are escaping me right now. The size of CS's competitive scene is one of it's greatest achievements, it's a game dominating e-sports despite being older than NS and on the same engine. It says just as much about the quality of the game as the 100000 servers filled with people. Personally I'd say it shows more, but that's just cause it shows the game has the qualities that I look for, they're maybe not what you'd want, I do enjoy self-improvement.
Comp NS is a joke. You could remove it, and NS would still live. But if you remove pub NS, it dies. Click refresh servers. That's pubs. That's NS. The day you lose this, NS dies. Comp NS is far too insignificant to represent the NS community.
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Who said anything about it being insignificant? All I'm saying is that if you tried it out, you'd get better. Why are you bashing it when you clearly know nothing about it?
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TGplayer eh? Last time I saw this server, it had 32 slots and had 5 marines against 20 bot aliens. But no, I'm not going to limit myself to one server and pretend that stacking doesn't exist. I want the action in larger servers.
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Yeah, they do 15 minute combat to fill up the server.
And BTW: TG does have a balance plugin.
You don't run scrims/pugs off listenservers.
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Why not? I can run a low ping server just fine thank you.
Why not? I can run a low ping server just fine thank you.
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Well then congrats to you for having dedicated line that can handle 12 players without lagging whilst you are downloading as well. But the majority of people on the standard Xkbps/256kbps cannot host more than a 8 person server and thus cannot hsot a 12 person listen server for pcws/gathers/scrims/pugs
Comp NS is a joke. You could remove it, and NS would still live. But if you remove pub NS, it dies. Click refresh servers. That's pubs. That's NS. The day you lose this, NS dies. Comp NS is far too insignificant to represent the NS community.
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So you're saying that we should try to balance NS around gameplay where, as you seem to see it, the marine team is always stacked? Why wouldn't we try to balance it using statistics from where the average skill on both teams is equal? To say that competitive NS is a joke is just admitting that you know nothing about it.
For some reason other games have survived the stacking, <b>especially</b> Counter-Strike in all of its craptastic glory. If people want to join a team with their clanmate because they'd rather play with people they know will listen, cooperate, and get their back, then let them. Don't force someone to play on a team they know sucks because then you are just taking fun away from <b>that</b> person to spare it for someone else.
There is no equilibrium for any FPS. Never has been, never will be - not ever. The stronger players will kill the weaker ones and continue to do so, just as natural selection implies.
The game's dying because it runs on a stone-age engine and people just simply don't care much for Half Life MODS these days.
WYSIWYG
Comp NS is a joke.
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you're the joke
you make these forums entertaining
People get tired of the same thing after a while and new players are looking for HL2 mods. Even CS is slowly dying, but it had such an incredibly huge player base that it won't die quickly.
That's just what happens. NS today is much more polished today than it was 2 years ago. Take those lessons and make us NS2!
<!--coloro:#FFCCCC--><span style="color:#FFCCCC"><!--/coloro--><b>My solutions:
1. Make oc's cost one resource so that players have more incentive to drop them game after game with no incentive to get better. Add in a "red alert" effect when gorges around ocs die, because that's impossible and the game has obviously been broken.
2. Make cloaking permanent, no exceptions. Starts the instant the skulk spawns. This accomplishes a) Aliens can beat marines and b) Encourages rich, challenging ambushes that both teams can gain a sense of accomplishment from.
3. Force blockscripts on all servers. This will hinder all of the pro players who macro anyway, and victimize bunnyhop/quickswitch alien scripters. Thus the gap between marines and aliens is decreased. +movement is a regression backward, as it is an obvious script made by the devs that exploits the way the devs intended the game to be played.
4. Remove medpacks and ammopacks. They hinder aliens who have patiently baited, and have moved in for easy kills, instead of challenging themselves and contributing to an actual ambush, thus overall hurting the dynamic (see: fun) aspect of the game. This ought to be rock paper scissors, after all.
5. Remake every map into ns_stargate. It's the new ns_siege007, and admins love it. When the game inevtiably ends in a server crash for the 8000th time, code a plugin that has the administrators reconnect and say "damned steam".
6. Everyone in the community needs to realize that each individual pub remains in a vacuum. For server owners, it is their server and their monetary investment equivalent of working a real job for two hours equates to police powers over the internet. See Congress for your state's laws on copyright enfridgement and internet domain (an absolutely clever pun of "eminent domain" put on the books by Bush and Karl Rove). For pubbers, this means that marines are overpowered because when they get uranium ammunition level 60, the game becomes unbalanced and discriminates against redemption onos, which should be the end all be all. The only people we can possibly blame for fostering unbalanced gameplay, after all, are the devs. Especially grepdash.
Thoughts?? I was going to make a thread called "do this or a bomb wiping out unknownworlds.com will go off", but I thought it fit better here.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
At least Grepdash beat boxes when I asked him to ingame.
For early games, I find it realistic if Skulks were too "Camoflauge" (sp) intensive enough so that they are not easily spotted. Right now it is to easy to see a skulk hiding upon a bacterium textured ceiling - and of course of the raised gamma settings. But it is not me to decide whats good or not.
For me, though I like +movement, I would sacrifice that, if Marines were to get medpack beaming removed and have them as healspray'ish tools. Y'know, like the Medic from TFC.
As for doomsday talking <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> :
I'm just a dust particle in the community, but I've played tons of games and so far, NS stands on place numero uno for being a great teamplay game based on scifi elements.
CS and DoD also used to have some sort of teamplay but that was killed by the team being replaced by some arcade freaks - at least that was my impression.
NS has a lot of potential for which I hope to be expanded.
Its great to see devs reading - so all I can say is to keep the classic NS as it is and bring an "advanced classic" (as NS2 just might be) <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
I don't think NS is "dying" at all. There are many players out there who never heard of it, but when they do, they get more interested into playing. At least for the german newbie players, they read the ns wiki articles and seemed amazed at all the stuff.
But okay, "what is EU?" <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
Sorry for bad lingual expressions.
Just wanted to toss this in.
$parki - Hrrhrrrhrrrrr <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skulk.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::skulk::" border="0" alt="skulk.gif" />
<!--fonto:Impact--><span style="font-family:Impact"><!--/fonto--><!--sizeo:7--><span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->I QUIT THIS GAME NO COMEBACKS IT'S BEEN FUN. <!--coloro:#CC0000--><span style="color:#CC0000"><!--/coloro-->NOT.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--fontc--></span><!--/fontc--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
This is without a doubt the last nail in NS's coffin.
Usually that one player also makes the rest around them better and then it seems like a stack.
Just face it, NS is an old game thats slowly phasing out along with other hl1 games. Most of the people who played NS have moved onto college our of their parents basement and the rate at which new players pick up and stay with NS is pretty small.
stacking isn't that bad though, just practice tbh. I only play marines on pubs anyways though so i don't care whose on what team because I'm always on the marine team thus stacking doesn't affect my enjoyment of the game.
Do you want to be part of the stacking or do you want to help solve it? Stacking IS a problem for pubs. And yes, it indeed kills the fun. Balance the teams so that both parties get their share of beginners and 'pro's, and you will get a different kind of game.
Classic games CAN be fun. If the teams get balanced, you can have 30 min+ games that are realy good and actually you will find them 'funny'. Keep it the way it is, and you will find 90% of these games boring because after 3 minutes you've seen all there is too see. These are then the games with rage-quitting, F4-laming and wtj, if possible. I see the game has it's own balance, but on pubs, the real balance has to come from the players, not the game.
And yes, stacking as well occurs in CS, but CS round are usually shorter than NS rounds. And waiting for your team to loose is not what you want to do on a public NS round.
The future of this game starts in the head of each player.
What about the 1 player stack, most of the time it just takes one good player to offset the balance of a pub game.
Usually that one player also makes the rest around them better and then it seems like a stack.
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That's correct. And also the point where i say: If there is no one able to compensate you in the other team, you simply have to wait in the RR or come back later. I won't allow one person to spoil the game for 19 others only because he is that strong....
I can't find the template but:
<!--fonto:Impact--><span style="font-family:Impact"><!--/fonto--><!--sizeo:7--><span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->I QUIT THIS GAME NO COMEBACKS IT'S BEEN FUN. <!--coloro:#CC0000--><span style="color:#CC0000"><!--/coloro-->NOT.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--fontc--></span><!--/fontc--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
This is without a doubt the last nail in NS's coffin.
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<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro--><b><!--sizeo:7--><span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->nooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Comparing top NS players with Peter Forsberg is a bit... heh. Yeah. I'm sure I don't have to say it.
Welcome to the spamfest norwegian guy.