Development Blog Update - Unknown Worlds Videocast #4

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  • ChromeAngelChromeAngel Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 14Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    <!--quoteo(post=1686072:date=Aug 16 2008, 10:07 AM:name=invader Zim)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(invader Zim @ Aug 16 2008, 10:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1686072"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How will it assend ladders, how many will fit in a lift, what if a corridor is narrow or has a tight corner. I like the idea of mobile seiges but i can see big mapping issues with them getting stuck in various places or comms sending them down impossible routes and ahving to back track.

    p.s. when the animation modeling and textures are done could you post a vid of it deploying?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    It doesn't look to be any bigger than an onos, so long as mapper keep that in mind it shouldn't be a problem.
  • PeeteerPeeteer Join Date: 2007-12-02 Member: 63062Members
    The final consept looks awsome <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> Go fot it!
  • ljcrabsljcrabs Join Date: 2007-11-15 Member: 62924Members
    It was a little hard to get a feel of concepts (because of the limitations of the medium used), but after a second viewing I'm a good 95% behind that final concept, great work!
  • schkorpioschkorpio I can mspaint Join Date: 2003-05-23 Member: 16635Members
    edited August 2008
    just a quick one - how is the siege cannon going to get down ladders ? wil the commander be limited to take the long way around?



    does this mean no more sneaky sieges in vents?


    OH BTW! VERY NICE VIDEO EDIT <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> very funny and very pro <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
  • ekul26ekul26 Join Date: 2007-12-16 Member: 63174Members
    <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/siege.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::siege::" border="0" alt="siege.gif" /> siege looks great. it would be cool if you could get lifts on the siege or do some think like the commander can move it or he can let the players control it.
    and another thing would me good if the players can weld a wall round the siege.

    <i>one more thing would be great say the siege gets to a ladder or water and little rockets pop out of the side of the siege and the siege fly's up</i> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />


    more video cast podcast
  • AlignAlign Remain Calm Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5216Forum Moderators, Constellation
    ###### yeah, siege tank!
    Is it safe to assume that it's fairly sturdy while in transit, but quite vulnerable (at least to melee attacks) when deployed?
  • [TAG] Potstar[TAG] Potstar Join Date: 2008-08-16 Member: 64821Members
    i like the idea of a moving siege! the designe of a tank still seems a bit to dominant and "human"for me personally.

    i have an other idea which might be a little more difficult to realice but would rock very nasty:

    what about a spider-concept? imagine a 4-leged-(spiderlike) siege that is able to moove around like a bug(like the nasty bugs in starship troopers).
    that new concept would bring additional benefits: you could add a little ingamesequence that whenever the siege shall fire, it fixes itselfe to the ground by hooking its legs into the ground (so it doesnt matter which underground you stand on cause the siege is made of massive metall). another cracy but awesome benefit of this "hook into the ground thing" would be that you could attatch such a "spidersiege" even heads up or sideways on a wall (just like an insekt-and the commander could hide them on dark and high spots so the aliens would have to search the whole area very closely to find it!).
    i know my idea is totally against all concepts that you guys brought up in all the hard work so far. i also understand that it might be difficult to come up with a propper movement for such "spidersieges" but i hope you may give it a shot and discuss it together cause i think it would change the gameplay in an interesting way

    ps: hy anty my friend!long time not seen around!nice to see you still love NS like i do m8=)much love dude!
  • ScytheScythe Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 46NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation, Reinforced - Silver
    Potstar's got a point. Why would the TSA design something that's only usable in spaces in which there's enough room for a large trolley, and sufficient gravity to hold itself in place? A spider-esque locomotion method would be much more suitable for the claustrophobic confines of a spaceship.

    --Scythe--
  • invader Ziminvader Zim Join Date: 2007-09-20 Member: 62376Members
    How are normal turrets now going to work? Will they even exist. Presumably now that the seige is mobile the turret factory changes its role slightly. Maybe it becomes the structure where seiges are produced and initially spawned but no longer their base of operation. If sieges have become mobile will normal turrets become mobile? They could be smaller like the spider sentries from doom3. However if this were to take place this would bring 3 types of AI unit in to the game, Sieges, Sentries and Weld bot. Who would control each of these units and would it take too much game play away from human to human interaction? Also would there be a unit cap on each of these ai units to prevent comms from ammassing armies of sentries welbots and seiges and jjust ignoring his rines?
  • BuzzouBuzzou Join Date: 2006-12-14 Member: 59056Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1686069:date=Aug 16 2008, 06:58 AM:name=septan179)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(septan179 @ Aug 16 2008, 06:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1686069"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So I go to build a siege cannon <a href="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/septan179/uwscreamerogod2.gif" target="_blank">when all of a sudden...</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    ROFL! that was my favourite piece of editing from the clip <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
  • FocusedWolfFocusedWolf Join Date: 2005-01-09 Member: 34258Members
    edited August 2008
    I am a marine-only player and i think this design sucks...

    1. why would it look experimental... does it have features differant from the NS 1 gun like full auto sieging or the ability to kill lifeforms.

    2. why is it bigger then the NS 1 siege cannon... since this is more in the future, the old bulky NS 1 gun would of evolved into something more suited for kicking ass... for example it would fire faster, do more damage, have new abilities, and look more developed... not less with exposed wiring everywhere.

    One idea could of been a hovercraft design (works for Tom Servo)...

    Also HOW BOUT THIS: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyZ2CD-RUCQ" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyZ2CD-RUCQ</a> lol

    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39JWZUcDbL0&feature=related" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39JWZUcDbL0...feature=related</a> <- he's shooting a shotgun while riding it lol

    Anyway... how about a freekin jeep with a siege cannon on it... one that fires at a higher rate then the one in Ns1... maybe that can eliminate biological lifeforms also but is a little weak against a hive unless you get like two of them racing in where one has a machine gun to kill lifeforms while other takes hive... maybe a full auto grenade launcher like a MK19!!!!

    Maybe we can have that and also have hives that can occur in any room big enough... this way we use vehicles and hunt for the hive while commander tries scanning...

    Their can be jeeps that the commander can computer-control to drive to our position with weapons or to get our collective ass's out... or to supply us with heavy vehicle mounted weapons <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hml2TmDUc3E" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hml2TmDUc3E</a>

    Serioussly, presant day weaponry <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28mQ8CJ4nqY" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28mQ8CJ4nqY</a> would kick alien ass in every situation lol

    OMFG I THINK I FOUND A TURRET REPLACEMENT FOR NS2
    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY6nm-6eCzM&feature=related" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY6nm-6eCzM...feature=related</a>

    OMFG THEIR SHOOTING DOWN MORTARS OR BOMBS OR SOMETHING (83 rounds a second) LOL
    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wArPao03q68&feature=related" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wArPao03q68...feature=related</a>

    that'll teach those damn lorks a lesson
  • juicejuice Join Date: 2003-01-28 Member: 12886Members, Constellation
    The particle accelerator look is awesome. Make sure you give it some nice condensation effects to show that it needs to be supercooled.
  • NeoSniperNeoSniper Join Date: 2005-06-02 Member: 52976Members
    Yay Update! Me love you long time! Is it sad that this made my day! Great information! Great editing!

    I like the idea and concept. Probably will be a good dynamic to encourage marines to move as a group across the map.

    Hard to judge how it will play in NS2. But since I love to fantasize about NS2 I'll assume just this change to NS1 and go at it. I guess the dynamics would play out like this: Assuming the norm will be "build Siege Cannon in base and escort to hive."

    *Instead of "PG drop near Hive! Take it down!" it would be more like "Siege Cannon en route! Intersect! Intersect!"

    *Strategy of making OCs at the "siege site" would force the siege cannon to deploy before turning the corner to take out the OCs but still too far from hive. This early deployment would give the aliens more time plus a chance to attack the cannon in the deployed stake before the actual hive siege.

    *new dynamics of commander pulling a feint in one direction and sieging the other hive by turning mid way. Perhaps sending a second Siege out cannon out once the first one has attracted the of the alien team attention then once the second cannon is close to the real target the first cannon turns and then you quickly have 2 cannon on the other hive.

    *aliens must track the Cannon to effectively counter it. The wider the alien scout network and the better the communication of the team then the more time they will likely have to counter a Siege-Run (I coined that term just now so start using a lot <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />)

    *Marines could establish a base a PG base at the siege site with normal turrets and hold it while the cannon is on the way. Demanding dual attention from the alien team.

    *All the more reason to have 2 commanders! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />

    *Ninja PG would have to use normal turrets and slowly push into the hive. Would be similar to the current siege but have a more slow push feel to it. Having the Marines try to creep far enough into the hive so that the turrets can offer firepower and presence to over run the hive. Why is this not done more often in servers? Two very distinct options to take down a hive. Yay for commander options!

    I like it!

    Also, I don't like the idea of the siege tank having to deploy within the radius of stationary building to work. The most I would accept is that a nearby power source could make it more effective... like the way a bile bombing Gorge is more effective near an MC. But looking at it that way having a marine equivalent of the MC would go against the 4 Pillars (or is it five now?)
  • CanadianWolverineCanadianWolverine Join Date: 2003-02-07 Member: 13249Members
    I have to say, Jon Finger aka Mojo adds so much presentation to these, I love it. I hope you give him pie. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />

    <!--quoteo(post=1686069:date=Aug 16 2008, 01:58 AM:name=septan179)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(septan179 @ Aug 16 2008, 01:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1686069"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So I go to build a siege cannon <a href="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/septan179/uwscreamerogod2.gif" target="_blank">when all of a sudden...</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    <!--quoteo(post=1686090:date=Aug 16 2008, 08:42 AM:name=Buzzou)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Buzzou @ Aug 16 2008, 08:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1686090"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->ROFL! that was my favourite piece of editing from the clip <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> Hahaha... QFT.

    While I may not have all the details on the game play of the sieges, I will say this, escorting the bomb in TF2 are easily my some of favourite maps for that game. Escorting or ambushing a MASC (pronounced "mask"?) certainly does have the potential to be a lot of fun.
  • schkorpioschkorpio I can mspaint Join Date: 2003-05-23 Member: 16635Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1686098:date=Aug 17 2008, 02:31 AM:name=juice)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(juice @ Aug 17 2008, 02:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1686098"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The particle accelerator look is awesome. Make sure you give it some nice condensation effects to show that it needs to be supercooled.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    yeah and lots of steam comming otu of it to as its cooling off <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
  • ratclawratclaw Join Date: 2008-06-12 Member: 64433Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1686082:date=Aug 16 2008, 11:13 AM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Align @ Aug 16 2008, 11:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1686082"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->###### yeah, siege tank!
    Is it safe to assume that it's fairly sturdy while in transit, but quite vulnerable (at least to melee attacks) when deployed?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Glad to know I'm not the only one who thought siege tank.

    As for the sentry turrets, <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/turret.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::sentry::" border="0" alt="turret.gif" /> I'm seeing them working something like the hl2 turrets. It would be much easier to manage the placement of the turrets if the marines can move them around at will within the tf range.
  • UncleCrunchUncleCrunch Mayonnaise land Join Date: 2005-02-16 Member: 41365Members, Reinforced - Onos
    edited August 2008
    Hi,

    I like the idea that a siege canon can be moved. It avoid a lot of little problems we had in NS1. "dam u com, i'm stuck now!!!"


    I don't like the design.
    It looks fragile. I thought (like a skulk) the wires first then the 'arms' that support the canon (niark niark).

    Tanks things are designed for being mobile and strong enough to make their way without being damaged. I mean there are no parts like wires, complex mechanical devices on the external. Exept canon and wheels which are necessary elements. But for the canon, you only see the 'tube' not the main mechanism (which is in the turet).


    "A propos":
    -If the siege canon is a tank like thing, will it be hit boxe<b>S</b> ? I mean if a was a skulk i would try to disable the canon first instead of the wheels (dunno the exact name). Having different damagable parts would bring some interesting things.
    -I may have missed it but : Is a marins will be able to 'ride' on it? It would be difficult to cover if the siege canon moves faster than marins.
    -Do Kharras will have that kind of things for OCs ? Maybe different type of OCs?
  • SentrySteveSentrySteve .txt Join Date: 2002-03-09 Member: 290Members, Constellation
    Keep in mind that while this thing is large - maybe too large to fit through every possible hallway - it can shoot through walls. It doesn't need to be able to navigate every possible part of the map so long as it has range on the major spots (hives, double res nodes, etc).

    If the siege was as small as some of you may like it, the aliens would have virtually no chance of finding it before the siege's target went down. Also, trying to justify why a smaller / more mobile design would move at the same speed as it's larger and clunker counter part (something essential to balance) seems to go against logic and could result in awkward looking animation.
  • cerberus414cerberus414 Join Date: 2005-05-07 Member: 51098Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    This new siege cannon reminds me of the Siege Tanks from StarCraft. Rofl. They are even called the same.
  • Jackson3113Jackson3113 Join Date: 2008-05-16 Member: 64272Members
    design 2 was better,
    -fancier deploy
    -looks solid
    -looks like it can turn
    -looks like a proper size for its function
    the final one has got way too much crap just to carry the gun around, and then once it deploys the cannon barrel itself looks like u could break it off the thing with a good firm kick!
  • SuhoSuho Join Date: 2008-08-17 Member: 64831Members
    edited August 2008
    You people do realize they've gone with the flimsier-looking design out of balance purposes? Stop and turn around right now if you want to have portable siege cannons of death that can one-shot the whole map.

    Also, unless you have (and you don't) a better idea for siege cannons do stop saying it sucks.

    That said, it looks great.
  • TonicTonic Join Date: 2008-08-17 Member: 64830Members
    edited August 2008
    Here's an idea about the masc not moving while firing: have an animation where the each individual tread 'splays' out into an X pattern like the top portion here:

    [attachment=35846:treads.png]

    The underlying engineering principle is that it would compensate for recoil and resist being knocked over or around (maybe by aliens, explosions, or physics objects). The bottom part there shows the side view for another event that you could add, where the treads sort of 'rear up'. This certainly gives it more clearance put essentially makes it more tripod-like. I'm not sure if it would be worse since the gun would be more unbalanced and top-heavy. I think if there were more tread surface area touching the ground and it was lower to the ground it would be more stable.
    So you could have it splay out, or splay out and rear up when it 'deploys'.
  • TonicTonic Join Date: 2008-08-17 Member: 64830Members
    Also gameplay wise it reminds me of the Leviathan from the Onslaught mode in unreal tournament 2k4/3. It's got a big cannon in the middle, moves slows, has to deploy to bring up the cannon and has a devastating attack.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited August 2008
    So I take it these mobile turrets now have a mobile turretfactory integrated into them? And it is quite possible to have mobile sentries moving along side for close quarter protection if the human element fails?

    Also no armor on the battlefield is like asking for an alien to fart on your shiny parts and make it fail... Murphy's law "Never forget that your weapon was made by the lowest bidder" So you'd want at least some protection on them delicates...

    [edit]
    You might want to go with shielding ala Protoss, but I'd feel safer with some shiedling that does not require power (armor plating FTW) <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />

    I feel like a designers choice has been made on the look of the weapon instead of a milatary choice. For a game it has to look pretty, for killing purpose and effectiveness it does not. (The ugly weapon is usually the better one <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Join Date: 2003-11-28 Member: 23688
    I like the robust design, awesome concepts as usual. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
  • ratclawratclaw Join Date: 2008-06-12 Member: 64433Members
    On the whole tank idea, what if a noobish player decided to gestate in the middle of a hallway when a siege cannon comes rolling by. Shouldn't the cannon be able to run over and kill that fool?
  • AlignAlign Remain Calm Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5216Forum Moderators, Constellation
    I imagine the escort will make scrambled eggs out of it, but being able to bodily block it seems like it would be more interesting for gameplay.
  • juicejuice Join Date: 2003-01-28 Member: 12886Members, Constellation
    edited August 2008
    Transparent armor plating that slides up like an automatic car window might allow you to keep the fragile look while having it not look ridiculous when an onos stands on top of it, etc. Also there is the question of if it can shoot through walls, why can't it shoot through its own armor? Why not just keep it safe inside, right? Why deploy so vulnerably? It could be that it needs the space around it to be free of metal, so you use the windshields instead. Also, everyone loves glass because human <!--coloro:red--><span style="color:red"><!--/coloro-->blood<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> and alien <!--coloro:lime--><span style="color:lime"><!--/coloro-->blood<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> sprayed on it is, like, so Pollock. Or it could be a vacuum chamber and when the glass breaks, the siege cannon dies with a vacuum implosion. And don't forget that a physicist's duct tape is aluminum foil. The transparent armor may address the concerns of those who think it looks too vulnerable. Also, easier hitboxes. The fragile look is win, though.
  • CursedCursed Join Date: 2007-04-14 Member: 60632Members
    Ok MASC.. It looks nice. Bulky look but actually very delicate considering those wires and stuff. Reminds me of tezla coil =)
  • HamletHamlet Join Date: 2008-08-17 Member: 64837Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited August 2008
    The more StarCraft (on the RTS side) this game becomes, there more I will like it.


    BTW, look at these inspirational pictures:

    <img src="http://homepage.mac.com/cheethorne/Starcraft/images/siegetank2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
    <a href="http://homepage.mac.com/cheethorne/Starcraft/images/siegetank2.jpg" target="_blank">Exhibit #1: In siege mode it looks much more like the particle-kind of weapon you finally suggested.</a> Notice the deployable feet on the sides, of which it has 2, that stabilize the tank while firing. In comparison, your model has 1 - if I may say so - "snow-speeder" foot in front. Then again, since when do energy weapons ask for recoil compensation? And how does a front foot stabilize a weapon that kicks <i>back</i>? Shouldn't some kind of lafette do?

    <img src="http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/2497/siegetanktankmodecz7.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
    <a href="http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/2497/siegetanktankmodecz7.jpg" target="_blank">Exhibit #2: Notice the 4 tracks in tank mode. Although in the Starcraft universe the Terran Siege Tank seems to be some kind of MBT, it actually is useless against small infantry or modern mobile Blitzkrieg-like warfare, hence the name.</a>

    There is a human standing next to Exhibit#2, which probably should give us an understanding of size relations, but if you actually play the game, the big siege tank could well be your small roomcleaner-robot size. Then, again - nobody complains about size relations on a chess board, as long as the game mechanics give you close to unlimited replayability, options and fun.


    By no means I want to criticize getting ideas from well-established movies and games.
    Heck, even the original Alien is burrowing heavily from other works of art (which just make it better).
    Just read up on the design of the great pulse rifle or the smart gun - you will be surprised...

    Then along came Starcraft - the chess of RTS games, as I like to call it.
    Looks-wise it can be described as a mixture of Alien(called Zerg)+Predator (called Pro'toss)+SpaceMarines (as in "painted chunks of pathos-swollen plastic") - and it WORKS!

    While Blizzard nowadays chooses to go down the comicstyle road (which effectively prevents me from even looking at those rounded abominations who live in the World of Warcraft), you won't find any RTS that's as chessy as Starcraft. Later games may score 1 point in the looks department, but that's about it... All visual candy, no S in the RT...

    Well. To make it short:
    The more Starcraft NS2 becomes (on the strategy part)
    The more Alien NS2 becomes (on the alien and atmospherical part)
    The more Predator NS2 becomes (on the squadbased horror part)
    ...the more me likey! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
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